Why Love Alone Is Destroying Kids with Rabbi Ezra Max

Should talk about shadows. What? >> Dark and light. Everything has an opposite side. We think in contrast. Okay. Everything that we process happens in contrast. >> And what did you just sit on? I want to know more than anything. >> A little sticky note. As as I was driving. Yeah. And since we have such a great plan and schedule for what we're talking about today. >> Which is the most amazing plan. Yeah. Emergence. So I was just like, what's what's the download? What's happening? So I was just scribbling some things. And so that's why they're on messy sticky notes and >> Can you share with me what you scribbled? It won't make sense. I I like it. I want to hear. Does Does this make sense? What did you say? Let me >> Does Does this make sense? Sometimes a blank page is what you need. Right. This is This is where we're starting from. This is where we're ending. Um Wait, hold on. This is this way. This is going to be a mainstay of what we talk about. >> I D D E C B E H B E That's right. Hashan. Ah, okay. And And I'm going to borrow the pen that you're getting later. This is your pen. Remind me to give it to you. Okay. You're bringing a lot of gifts today. It comes together with our journal that was sent by the person who referred me to your show. Oh, that's right. Fali Klein. Thank you again, Fali. That This is how We got to start there, which again We got to start here? And the vessel journal that you heard about that We We could we start This is a weird way to start this. But Ah, you hear that stuff? Dark and white. Oh, this is going to go sideways fast. Wait, hold on. I might need that pen. Can I borrow your pen, please? >> Take my pen. You can take the pen off my hands and the shirt off my back. Shirt off your back you can keep. >> Yes. Um thank you. But you're that kind of guy who would give the shirt off your back, actually. So my call. We We have been talking about this show for since you surprised me in the car a couple of months ago. Right. When Fali Klein recommended you. Hold on, before we go, let me start. Welcome back everybody to another ongoing episode of the None of Your Business podcast. I say ongoing because we have this process where people recommend people, and when those people come on, that's an ongoing It's like a chain reaction, and I love it. An ongoing, uplifting, inspiring, learning, growth-oriented podcast. Thank you guys for subscribing. Thank you for your comments. Thank you for your feedback and for being a part of our journey. We really appreciate it. Thank you to the Prime Source Production team, and again, I really appreciate you being here. Reb Ezra Max, everybody, is in the house. Recommended by Folly Klein, the breathwork guru of all gurus, who spoken so much about healthier living and perseverance, and you know, overcoming challenges, and her recommendation was you. And I'm so happy that you're here, so welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. And thank you for the recommendation. Uh five life forces. Is what? Breath. When you talk about breath. Yeah. >> And and Folly Klein. Breath, as I'm a breathwork, is the song of life. Breath is the song of life. Because without breath, we're not alive. And most of us feel like we can't breathe. All the time. And we use expressions like, "I can't breathe. I'm choking. I'm choked." The stress that's going on in the world right now as we speak, the phone calls that I was on a little bit earlier to people in Israel who are just holding their breath. Being able to tap in and recognize that the greatest resource that we require to live, which is also free, the freest resource, is the thing we struggle with the most. We struggle to appreciate it. We struggle to value it until we don't have it. And we struggle to understand it. And as Amara Breathwork was created to help people tap into their breath, tap into their neshama, and re-engage in a very profound way with the five life forces, which all intersect with each other. And that's really one of the cornerstones of of the work that she's doing and bringing forward into the world, which I think are is super important. >> What five five life forces? >> Which is I think you have to have her back on the show. Let her explain. >> Just is there a way to do it in a summary in one sentence? Five. Thank you. Breath. Okay. God. Food. Procreation. I forgot the fifth. I guess we'll have her back. I'll get there. There you go. You can always leave you have to leave it to Fally. >> exactly. Fally, we need you. Um you know, you're getting right into it and I love it. And um I'll I'll put a teaser out there that I'm going to get a little bit vulnerable in this conversation with you simply because I don't have a choice. I you know, if I'm going to be transparent and vulnerable and I'm going to expect that from other people, then I have to do that myself as well. >> Trying to trigger me that I need to be vulnerable on your show? Another show with vulnerability? >> no, not at all. You can do whatever you want, but what I'm saying is that in general, I like to live a life of people around me that are vulnerable, transparent, you know, What's the fifth? real, speak their emotions and so on. Um I was on a plane yesterday and this woman sitting next to me is like, "I didn't get any sleep last night. I I went to bed at 2:00 in the morning and and every all she spoke about were her problems." Literally. And I was like, "This Thank God the flight's almost over." Um you know, I feel like that sometimes with people around me on a daily basis, but I stay away from it. And um you and I have been talking since Fally recommended you to get you on the program. It's been challenging. Um and then when I spoke to you a couple of weeks ago, I actually told this to the CEO of Hatzalah uh last episode. I told him that uh I had to call Hatzalah and I only remembered the Brooklyn number and it took them way too long to get someone to come to me and I was very frustrated. And uh I hung up on you because I experienced what's known as a panic attack. And um I'm not going to get into it right the second, but I do want to open up about it a little bit cuz it's part of my life. I experienced it and for anyone who is worried about experiencing it or has experienced something like it, I do want to talk about it. And um God brought us together on that phone call for a reason. I experienced it while I was talking to you for a reason and uh you know, you helped me understand that you can work through these types of things and I would love to uncover what the heck you meant when you said that. Uh you're like, "Are you okay?" You're like, "Okay, okay, good." Uh but I want to talk to you about how I I could have walked you through it. Like, "Dude, let me get Hatzalah here, take my blood pressure and I'll talk to you soon. Don't tell me how to, you know, break down my panic attack while I'm on the phone with you." Although you think you could have done it and I'd like to hear, you know, how you think you could have done it, but before we do that and I will get back to it, who are you? Where are you from? I got to know you at a camp base uh on army camp base uh in North Carolina on a Shabbaton that we spent Right. The largest army base in America. We spent a delightful Shabbos there. Yeah. Tell the audience about what is Fort Bragg and and >> Fort Bragg is is the largest army base in America. They changed the name. While we were there, the commander came and spoke to us much of Shabbos and was talking about the name change, which I don't I remember not being thrilled with. Uh I thought it was more democratic woke than than true to its what roots. Um I was hoping we'd get to jump out of a helicopter, but we didn't get to do that. That I was looking forward to repelling down from the the troop carrier cuz the paratroopers I feel like after the class that you gave, I emotionally jumped out of a helicopter. We'll get to that. Remind me what You gave a class. Yeah. Oh, oh, yes, yes. With the Sure, with the special forces guy who the special forces medic who was there who who was becoming from and going to medical school. Yeah. So, there were a lot of chaplains there and it was a very special Shabbaton. I got to meet the guy that was the first writer for Highlight Highlight, yes. David David, yeah. And he was an amazing human being and we had a lot of interesting people and it was a great We saw all the the the the exploded unexploded ordinance. We were in uh what EOD stands for something. Bomb disposal, fancy word. And we went into their warehouse where they have all these labeled Do you remember? They're all these This is an Israeli stuff. This is Iranian stuff. This is Iraqi stuff. This is Do you remember? I wasn't there for that moment. I was probably playing guitar waiting for Shabbos to come in. So, tell me about it. We went to the EOD training room and then on the side there was a closet. It wasn't a closet. It was this big huge conference room with the racks and racks and rows of stuff and I asked the fellow outside, "Do you mind if I just browse?" He's like, "Do not touch anything." I'm like, "Sure." And so, there's pallet racks of all kinds of ordinance that they had to defuse and that they use for to understand. Some mortar shells, small, big, medium. You got the small, medium, and large. Uh and then labeled by different countries where it comes from. Fascinating. Uh different types, old, new. Uh because anything that can explode, anything that can go boom, these guys get called in to make sure it doesn't happen in an uncontrolled way. Right. Right. Which is pretty cool. So, we met there. Yeah. And uh we connected there. It was a beautiful Shabbos. >> Yeah. And I didn't really get to know you. I know that you gave a class and the class was interesting. You were like, you know, you you got to pay attention the whole time. And it was difficult for us, but you made sure to do it in under 30 30 which I appreciated. >> Oh, you don't know what time it was. They told me 22 minutes is the longest attention span you're going to get. Try to get it done in under 20. I said I'm going to do it in 30, and if they're still paying attention, I'll go for a few more. And it was a negotiation. And so in the end, we there was time before >> Who told you this? The organizer, cuz it was a suit that coming and there was something going on. >> And so there was exactly 40 minutes. And at 39 minutes on the clock in the big clock in the back, I was like, "Okay, I'm done." And besides the three guys sleeping, people were like, "Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. You're a metal." I'm like, "I am, but No one knows though there were only five people there. Not kidding. There were only five, right? Besides the three There were only five listening. Uh Ezra, so tell me, who are you? Where are you from? Where did you grow up? Where are your parents from? Uh what was it like growing up for you? How did you get into this world of coaching and breathing and you know, and and and just in one sentence, if you if you had to say, "I'm not a celebrity. I'm not a guy that wants to, you know, jump out, you know, and let everybody know who I am, but but if I had to tell people who I am, I would say the following." What would that be? I want to start with, do you know how camera shy I am? I'm I'm still looking at the camera and the lights and and and seeing the glare. Um since I'm very little, you would think I I would have figured this out. Um and then I spent 4 hours on a interview with somebody trying to say who is define who is Ezra Max, and we still didn't answer the question. So I'm going to attempt in a sentence or two to to give you some context. My parents are immigrants. My father was born in Jerusalem. And uh sometimes I tell we say he's a Palestinian. Uh my mother was born in Canada. They both came to They ended up in America. And um we're both from immigrant stock. That's how was their shotgun. And my father would cover this year when he wasn't giving this year. My mother would attend this year. And he For those of us that don't know, who is that? The Pesach book, right before Pesach. The Pesach book. The The original Pesach digest um was one of his big projects. And uh my father became a rabbi in Chaim Berlin before I was born. So, I grew up in the Chaim Berlin ecosystem. And if there was one thing I wasn't going to be was a rabbi. And uh Hashem had other plans for me. I went out to work and on September 11th, '01, terrorism is a is a talk of the town today. Um I was a EMT responding to the towers, but I stopped to put on my tzitzit and say Shema before I left that morning. I was on the way to shul. I went back. Whatever it was, my partner was waiting to go. Uh he's like, "You can't daven now. We got to go." I'm like, "Nope. I'm going to daven and then we're going to go." And uh his vehicle got hit by debris coming down from the the towers. I was a few cars behind then, and I'm PTSI as I put the piece PTSD. A post-traumatic incident versus a post-traumatic disorder. Um I had a total meltdown when it occurred to me that I was seconds away from death that day. And that putting on tefillin and saying Shema was the difference between being here sitting with you or being gone. And then I needed to answer a much bigger question of "What am I doing on this planet? What is my purpose? What is my tafkid? What Why why am I here?" Not from a place of survivor guilt, but from a place of meaning, purpose, intentionality. And so, I I found myself I I went to the Kotel for 3 days, I stayed for 10, really trying to understand what is it that I'm supposed to be doing here. And that was a catalyst for leaving corporate, leaving the the work I was doing, and doubling down on working with struggling youth and teens maybe before it was popular. What were you doing then? Uh corporate sales, telecom. I I was uh regional sales for a British company with a US presence the time. >> corporate sales guy and you're an EMT and this starts to change your life. You go to the Kotel for over a week. Just davening, like "Hashem, what do you want from my life? And if you're not going to just tell me flat out, give me a clue." Um I was very What's the word? I was very conscientious about being conscientious before I had ways to describe what that was. It was very clear to me that nothing is by chance. There's something that I need to be doing and how can I figure out what that is? There was a core identity piece that was shifting and that I needed to give definition and that I had some agency over but I didn't have access to. Um I had talent, skills, and abilities and trauma upon trauma. So, dyslexic, ADHD, rambunctious. Um school was relatively traumatic to me. I don't learn traditionally the way most people sit down and and memorize it. My memory is not a typical memory. I remember incredible amounts of data in different ways. I remember people. I remember stories. Names not so much. So, I can meet somebody 10 years later, 20 years later and remember key components of their life without knowing their name. And if they've been around me for a little bit, they know I probably don't remember their name but I know the inflection points of their life because that's what matters. And when I realized that that's what matters to me it became apparent I needed to be doing something with that. It was one of those It's the thing that's so obvious once you see it but you don't see it until it becomes obvious. And as I told a client yesterday or the day before, I said it feels so strongly that there's it it I I used feel and sight in the same sentence and it doesn't make sense. You can feel that something obvious is happening in the world right now. There's tectonic shift. There's a massive change happening in the world. You can feel it, but you can't really see what it is yet. And when it becomes obvious, it's going to be duh. And that happens in our life subtly all the time. In what we're doing, and who we're doing it with, and our relationships, and how we do it within those relationships, because we are relation relational beings. We Most of what we do happens in relationship. There's the yachad, and then there's the tzibur. There's the individual and the group, the collective. And so when individuals are struggling, stressed, needing something, under pressure, it's an opportunity for change. It's an opportunity for movement. When the community struggles, it's because of the individuals. It's It's interdependencies. It as a parent, we're only as happy as our saddest child. You You can't be more happy than your saddest child because your your your kid is part of you, interdependent with you. So, I'm I'm I'm going to that on purpose because I probably was the one who, certainly in the firm world, who invented coaching for teens. I had done coaching in the in the corporate world. My My role was to meet with sales teams in the telecom space and have them adapt to new technology. At that point, it was called IP telephony. It was the beginning of what we call voice over IP. So, in the cutting edge, what we What some people would have called a vaporware, which is basically two tin cans with a string in between, you make believe that smoke is happening, and there's magic. There was a joke how the engineers would would say, "You just make a box with lights on it and convince people to invest a million dollars in in an idea." Um And that was sort of the chatter in the com in the telecom community. But really, that's what was happening. It was the infancy of the internet and using the in internet for phone calls, which today most phone calls probably happen more happens over ethernet than happens over copper line. I'm getting technical. But actually I saw it as a microcosm for understanding God consciousness. Hashem's everywhere. You just can't see him unless you know where to look for him. You're always tapped in. Your neshama is never not tapped in. If it's not, you're dead. And even then it is just differently. So this body that we're in, this existence that we're in, is a housing, is a container for the neshama. And then we have these struggles, stressors, challenges to help us identify where we can I want to say breathe, where we can stretch and find that breath. That was not a one minute one sentence, who is Ezra? That does make sense though, but I I want to go back to the the part that made you in terms of you mentioned a comment before. I know Our Place in Brooklyn existed for a number of years, Sonny Perlman and you know, many different people in that world. I know I worked with them so >> you're saying in the beginning is at that era, before Our Place? >> The beginning of Our Place. >> In the beginning of Our Place. >> The beginning of Our Place. >> Right. I was in early I was an early volunteer. Then there was a place called Judas Place, which was for kids who had gone to rehab and then were coming back from rehab but couldn't go back to Our Place. Right. And so I don't know if you remember Yossi Yurowitz. Sure. So Yossi and I sort of took a a project to see how we can move it. Became the living room. Menachem Personazki, who everybody knows, um and and Chivi Perlman were coming out of social work school and we hired them to to come in and and bring a level of integration between a Torah perspective, 12 step and actually raising up the quality and caliber of how we help these youth move forward. It's just funny because you mentioned that as that's a huge part of your journey that you connected there What's that? >> Yes. journey I I I'm almost allergic to how it's used today. Journey. You don't like the word journey? >> No, it's fine. Can you pick another word for what I just said? process Throughout your process nah. Stop it. Throughout your journey Throughout my experience >> Throughout your experiences of growing you you mentioned a minute ago that you you you spent a lot of time and energy and you got somehow connected to the youth and the the risks of youth. Yes. So, I I'm just curious what did you learn from that? You went through that process. I'm sure that's been a lot for you. That's awesome. >> As a parent what can I learn from all your experiences that you went through and seeing so many How many boys do you know and girls that you know that took their own life? Is it more than one? I have a interesting statistic for you. Please. And I used to speak about this for years. In I have to be careful what I'm about to say because I'm saying this on a public forum which has to be held with trepidation and understanding that what I'm about to say can be misunderstood. So, there's a lot of >> Just say it. It'll be misunderstood anyways. We don't care. Just say it. Somebody will. I want to make sure I'm doing it respectfully and >> I understand. I get it. the number of kids who either uh died and or maybe have taken their own life was very very small compared to the averages in that demographic. Let me explain what I mean by that. There are uh averages. There are uh categories of people psychographics if you will dynamics. Teenagers using uh drugs who are in the world of depression and have been through traumas and are at a very high likelihood of trying to escape. And most of them actually don't want to be dead. They just want to get away from the pain. Which is why they're using drugs. They're not drug addicts. They are kids in pain. But I want to be careful how I say this because if we cater to the pain and we cater to the dysfunction, we create more of it and more kids die. So very few in the grand scheme of things actually are not here anymore. In fact, almost all of them are still here. I do know some who are not here anymore. But I didn't work with them or I only knew them tangentially. And there's one young man who is married who ended up relapsing and going to rehab and then overdosing. And I sat with Menachem and I was so upset. I'd been upset with Menachem for for how we were doing the uh intervention with him, but sort of tangentially cuz he had already moved on and wasn't really part of it. And the the punchline is he probably did not realize that after having been away and been away from drugs and in rehab and then away from drugs, when he came back and used or whatever he used, he A probably did not know what he took and B did not know what his body could handle. I don't think he wanted to die. I believe he wanted to live. And that's the worst tragedy because in the escape from the pain, the cost of that is death. And this idea that we enable them to use more drugs, to be more dysfunctional, to um encourage bad behavior as a way to trick them into a relationship is bizarre. In fact, counterproductive. And I'll prove it with a business model. In your business, if you had key employee who is dysfunctional and doing dysfunctional things, but they had a key job, would you encourage them to be more dysfunctional in order to do their job better? Or would you say, "We're going to replace you." You'd replace them. See, but I can't replace the kid. You're right, you can't. So, you have to find a way to connect with them more meaningfully. Meaningful relation meaningful relationship can only be built on an honest core. It cannot be built on dishonesty. So, you'll say, "Yeah, but there was trauma that influenced their ability to function. There's trauma that that that hampers their ability to think straight. There's trauma that's influencing their choices and decisions." Yes. That is true. So, let's help them repair. All right, let's break this down for a minute. I'm sorry. Uh the topic I It's a topic I know pretty well. Um I know over a dozen boys and girls that um ended up uh Not here anymore. >> Not uh they're not here anymore. It's the best, most sensitive way to say it. I have to tell you that all of them I knew did not want to leave this world, and they were in pain. And I am agreeing with what you're saying. So, so let's just put the framework together for a second. Uh you see a teenager in pain, help make meaningful relationships. Uh you you hear about a story that someone, you know, took their own life, they're not with us anymore, understand that they were in tremendous pain, there was trauma or mental abuse or a mental illness or whatever it is. I get that. We're on the same page as far as that's concerned. You mentioned the word though before that triggered me, and I'm curious about it as and that is that you don't want to enable them. You're making a comparison to employees is challenging a little bit because as a parent, I think that, you know, we don't run our families as a business, we run it as I'm going to get angry and no one else in the world is going to know about it other than my children because I don't get angry in public. I only get angry internally. So, the relationship that I'm trying to build with my child is so difficult because he sees the real raw, sometimes potentially terrible me. No one else sees it. Therefore, it's difficult to compare it to running it as a business, but I understand what the nuance of what you're trying to say in that regard and therefore I want to go back to it and ask you when you say enabling, do you mean the concept of just show love and just continue to support all their craziness and I'm talking about a child and I want to pick up on what you've learned from years and years and years of dealing with this and making a comment like not under my watch it didn't happen and I appreciate you saying that. Can you teach us as parents what is it that we can learn from your experience to not enable and what does it mean to enable? And also the philosophy in general that has been brought up so many times of just be a yes person, say yes to everything, shower them with love as long as they know that you love them is the concept then they'll come back to you. So, can you break that down for a minute? Yes. I think there's three questions and I want to start with the story. Within within your comment there's three questions and I will I'll break them down in a moment. I want to start with a story. About a year ago I was working with a gentleman who runs a small business and he asked me to help him uh get past the ceiling he kept hitting which is again, most of my work today is more executive oriented or from founder oriented. People who are either a solopreneur trying to scale with some helpers or a large company with hundreds of employees. It could be anywhere in the middle. So, I'm sorry if I'm sorry to do this to you, but pause for a second. So, you're an executive coach? Yes. >> Executive lifestyle coach for people who own businesses and who want to grow, right? Okay, good. Go ahead. So, the engagement was to help him get past his own roadblock. Whatever that roadblock is. And we all have roadblocks. We all We call them whatever you want. We all have trauma. We all have imposter syndrome. We all We're all trying to strive for more and that is stressing our existing belief about who we are to the core of our being. And the more we're striving for more, the more it's testing our metal. >> What was that roadblock can you share? Like just give an example of what it could have been specifically? >> to do breaking a certain cycle pattern of top line growth. He couldn't get past the certain number. Number one. Number two, the system kept breaking every time he would get to a certain thing, he self-destruct. And my translation of what was going on. It's not how he described it. >> His translation, I'm curious, was? >> was, "I need to get past this thing. I keep getting here and then falling off the thing. I keep getting here and I fall off the thing." So, having a difficult time scaling and growing my business because something's wrong every time I reach the success. Okay. So, we're working together for uh some time, whatever it was. Let's Let's call it a month or two. I I know So, my my style of working with someone is not just looking at the symptom of what's going on, which is part of the answer to your question, which is why I'm using this story. It's about seeing the symptom, but understanding what's the core issue that needs to be addressed and then addressing that core issue. >> Okay, so tell us what happened here and we'll understand it better. >> get a phone call from him one night and he's like, "Listen, can I get my my wife on the phone? It's not about my business, it's about one of my kids." Now, if that only happened to me once, I would have been shocked, but it happens to me all the time, so sure. And he knows my history and experience. So, we get on the phone and they tell me that the kids' therapist is recommending inpatient rehab because of ABC suicidality, etc. I'm I'm going to It's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we don't connect the >> Protect the Yeah, yeah, it's okay. We We live in a community where we all know each other, so That's fine. I I And this has happened hundreds of times. It's not only a one-story, but it's a good thing. So, a father who's an executive running a business, and you're helping him scale and grow his business, and you recognize and he recognizes there are emotional challenges and family challenges that are probably preventing him from growing also. >> Underpinning and holding him back. So, he calls you, and he calls you at night and says, "My wife's on the phone, and we have a challenge with >> at the rehab. Our child, for whatever reason, has to go to rehab. And I'm listening to um what he's telling me. I'm asking very specific questions, and I'm I'm not a therapist. I'm not a doctor, but I have a lot of experience. And and a lot of results with that experience, without the the negatives. Do you know what I mean, right? I have more upside than downside, if you will, in terms of the results. >> Your resume is cool by me. Continue. It's for your listeners who may not know that, cuz If if you're here, then they respect it. Awesome. And I say, "No rehab. Change therapists. Call this person. Do these two things. And you need to work on this relationship directly, and here's your protocol for how you're going to work on this relationship with your daughter." And he tells me, "Are you serious? Like, are you crazy?" And his wife is like, "For real?" "100%. If anything changes, call me. It's not a risk. It's a prescription. Go do it." Less than 2 weeks later, phone rings random time. And I I see a 10, and I'm I'm for a second, you know, you have you have that like What happened? And I pick up, and he's he's emotional. And and I say, "Michael, what's going on?" His name was not Michael. "Michael, what's going on?" He says, "You're not going to believe what happened." I said, "What?" He said, "So, I did what you said, and I did this, and I did that." And whatever, he follows the protocol. And one of the things he offered was, "When you're having a difficult time until we get you placed in with the new structure we're setting up, if you ever need help, call me. I'm here for you. I'll stop whatever I'm doing." And so, he gets a call in the middle of the day, and she says, "I'm having a hard time." He says, "Okay, let's go for a walk." And they go for a walk. And they're walking in the park, at the corner or whatever, down the block. And all of a sudden, she turns to her dad, and she says, "Dad, could you please just give me a hug?" And the guy says, "It's the first time in 3 years I was able to wrap my daughter in my arms and tell her I love you properly." And he's crying. He's bawling on the phone. I said, "Dude, that's why you hired me, not to break through on your numbers." So, down to your question. It's possible. We have, in my opinion, for that kid would have been a disaster. She would have gotten worse, not better. In the context of that story, I'm not saying no, don't you go to rehab. That's not what I'm saying. It has to be done carefully, and it has to be done properly. It has to be structured in an appropriate manner. And it has to be monitored properly. Um The way to build a relationship is with boundaries, not without boundaries. The way to build a relationship is not to love like I just love you no matter what you do. It's crazy. I love you no matter what. But also, this is not appropriate. I love you no matter what, or I love you more than you can define me, but also, here's where the line is. And if you cross this line, I'm still going to follow you over that line, but come back over the line because you're over the line. This idea that we promote destructive, self-destructive behavior. There's an entire generation of kids at this point who are never going to forgive their parents for enabling them to cross lines they can't cross back. Wow. I know because they cried to me, and they tell me, "Why did my parents let me do this? Why didn't they stop me? Why didn't they say no?" It's easier to just say yes, yes, yes, even though it's harder. But when you have a community of support saying, "Yeah, yeah, just enable bad behavior." Without setting the term and the boundary. >> Give me an example of a term or a boundary, please. How graphic do you want me to be? As much as you can. Parent comes downstairs 3:00 in the morning and sees a non-Jewish kid doing drugs together with their teenage child in their house without clothes. Okay. I love you. Carry on. Let me buy you more drugs. Let me see if I can Uber Eats for you. You're probably hungry. Or rack the shotgun and say if you ever come back here again, you're not going to walk out. You can still hug your kid. But what are you doing? Don't buy them drugs. I've never ever ever thousands of kids I've worked with directly and indirectly ever bought drugs for a kid. Cigarettes, yeah, not drugs. Are you saying that other people never bought tray for a kid ever? Never needed to. You're going to tell me, "Oh, but you're not the parent." In some cases, I was actually {quote} {unquote} in a higher position in the hierarchy of the >> to interrupt. I I Are you say I'm sorry to interrupt. Are you saying that there are other people that have a direction of saying, "Buy the tray for the kid. Help absolutely. Sure. Help the kid get the drugs." There There's other philosophies of raising uh teens that say, "Yes." and loving them no matter what and encouraging and enabling {quote} {unquote}. That's what you meant by enabling. That's now we're up to the court. >> Extreme enabling. >> Extreme enabling, right. >> There is some enablement that needs to happen at times because you need to meet them somewhere. But you have to choose where there's boundaries. So you don't create a boundary with a son. And I just had this thing the other day like, you know, I can't create a boundary of don't be downstairs without clothes on doing drugs with a non-Jew. You don't even think of such a boundary. So how do you create that boundary when your kids going through this challenge? So you don't You don't actually have to create that boundary. If they If there's a line and you won't cross the line, they test that line wherever that line is. So just meet them at that line and hold the boundary. But if if you're not holding the boundary, I've never taken a kid for a tattoo. I've helped multiple kids get rid of tattoos. A great great one. I like this one. A kid comes over right. A kid comes over to his dad and says, you know, I'm going to get a tattoo and he's living in the world of just yes, yes, yes. I love you. I love you and I I want you to see unconditional love. So, that word unconditional love I think gets diluted a lot or misunderstood and I'd like to talk about this topic because when you say enabling, so do you help your kid go to the tattoo parlor and get a tattoo? Not me. So, what would you say to do? Why do you want a tattoo? I want a tattoo. There's a reason. It's a symptom. It's not a problem. >> kid is saying, I get it but Why do you have to go with them? What? Why do you have to go with them? >> are you saying? No, I don't want to go with you. How do you say it? I wouldn't go with them. I don't I don't even think you should get it. I hope you don't get it and one day when you want to get rid of it, you know, it's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars and a lot of pain and I'm going to help you get rid of it. I see. And I won't tell you I told you so but I'm going to help you get rid of it. You don't have to actually throw that in there. That's just like, you know, >> No, I do. I I say all the time I will not tell you I told you. >> I will not tell you I told you so. I say I told you so in advance. Yeah, because I don't want to be in a position later to say I told you so and then you're going to feel bad like I'm putting you down. I'm not. I want to be able to come to you later and say, I'm here to help you. I love you. I still love you even though you did something stupid without me having to say those words later. I'm saying it in advance. I'm letting you know, this is going to not work for you. This is not going to give you what you think it's going to give you. It's not going to be the relief. It's not going to I'm going to switch gears for a second. How many people do you and I both know who are running after psychedelic trip after psychedelic trip after psychedelic trip actually messing themselves up giving very unhealthy people very super unhealthy people access to the root programming of their brains in a group environment where not only does some sugar in a freak who's tapping into a void desire potentially take over control of their brain, they're sitting with a whole group of other people and you don't know who else's trauma you're picking up on. And the reason I know this is people people come after certain experiences and they're talking about things that never ever happened to them. It is 100% real to their nervous system as if it did. And I know why. And then by mistake I found out a name. I dropped the name about someone who who I just popped into my brain. I I And then it I connected a dot. I was like, "Oh my gosh, if that person has any influence in this space, it it it's almost like like burn the whole thing down. Like that's terrible. That that would be the worst energy to allow. Imagine going to a brain surgeon who never went to school, who has some rusty tools, and say, "Shh, I have this little pain in the back of my head. Do you mind can you just cut it open and fix something for me?" No. I I took this way too far. But two things I want to say about this. A, would you ever give control of your root operating system to anyone, let alone some unhealthy person? Second, what if there was a way to do this that required a little bit more work, but you stayed in the driver's seat? You got to influence it. It It was you coming online. It was you becoming more of you. It was you becoming your best and highest self. Now, I'm biased. That is 100% what my work is about. Whether it's business, whether it's family, whether it's personal, it's all one. Money. Oh, that was the fifth life force. I left it out, of course. Money is just a tool. We're not supposed to love money. We're supposed to love people and use money. We are the master, not the money. But if we give money the control, the money becomes the master. That's crazy. But money and God are interdependent. So is food. So is breath. So is procreation. I'm using the seven-letter word instead of a three. So, those are the five life forces and they all work together, life forces. They work together. >> You definitely answered my question on enabling. I definitely know that there are people that disagree somewhat with what you're saying. Yep. I'm I'm going to get them on the program and dissect it because I want to hear from them what they mean. >> Both of us. We should have like a conversation, a respectful conversation. Who would you recommend that believes in the opposite or maybe some what a different direction of what you're saying? You don't want to drop names. Okay, but there's a lot of people, right? You're saying to have both sides of the >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a movement to to which I think that also has success. I I feel like you know, I'm not going to dissect this topic a little too much more than this for now, but I feel like you know, the challenge is that many parents don't have those tools regardless. So, telling them to do it that way is what works. But yes, >> I want to say this clearly. I spent a lifetime in that space very effectively. I worked together with Rabbi Chaim Walderstein Zatzal like brothers for the beginning of Our Nava. Our Nava started in the living room that night, Tisha B'Av. He used to call me Tisha B'Av at night at 1:00 in the morning and say, "Ezra, Yasha Koya." He had that night he spoke in two different places and that was the beginning of Our Nava. The story he used to tell about the the short little blonde girl who got in the space and answered the question. >> B'Av night, I had invited him to come and speak. And there was this, I don't know, maybe 5-ft high little blonde kid who was running away from a bench warrant in another state who was supposed to rehab at 15 years old. And he walked in to speak and it was late and it was hot and they were antsy and she just looked at him and she jumped off out of the couch. It was like, "F you and F God." He just turned to me and he's is uh "How much leeway do I have?" And I leaned over and said, "Say whatever you want. If you break something, I'll fix it. It's cool." I'm good with boundaries, and I could always throw him under the bus if I wanted to. And he took a breath, and he looked me in the eye and he said, "I thought I was going to come here and prove to you that God exists. Based on your comment, we both agree there's a God. So, now instead, why don't we talk about your relationship with him?" And there was this pause, standoff. And she said, "You cool, I'll listen." And sat down. That's the piercing in his tallest bag. She's the first one. She just made a bris for her fifth kid. She's from She lives in Arutz Yisrael. She has a mishpacha. She's awesome. It's incredible. >> I got to interview this woman. >> And the And And the kid whose room she took over cuz she lived by my neighbor was learning in Arutz Yisrael went to the bris. Wow. Her son's bar mitzvah 2 years ago. My son was learning in Arutz Yisrael, he went to the bar mitzvah. I love it. This is the real circle of life. It's incredible, and that's one. There's hundreds, if not thousands. And name by name by name by name. So, that's with boundaries. That's not without boundaries. That's with saying no. That's not Again, helping, being super helpful, giving hundreds of hours, thousands of hours in the aggregate to different people, but that mesiras nefesh oil, that carrying, that that Do you know Avi Fishoff? Yes, sure. Avi introduced me to to Rabbi Chaya. Really? Wow. Credit to you, Rabbi Avi. Exactly. >> I've been wanting to get him on. I think I'm going to Yeah, I think I'm going to get him on really soon, but I think that he has a little bit of a philosophy of showering with love and uh this concept that you might be dancing around called enabling. Um I think he's one of those things that he believes in. Avi believes in that. Avi has a halacha. Avi and I agree on most and have divergence on some. Is this the some? Yes. Very respectful, very open, very >> Okay. That's fine. >> Very um Very good with each other. >> Yeah, no, I'll definitely hear the other side when I interview him because it's a such a And he's eloquent and he has >> a such a delicate topic and what So, what I was asking you earlier, which I'm going to re-ask it again, is So, what can we learn as parents who are raising healthy kids, don't have mental illness, don't have trauma challenge What were you saying to what? I said, I'm looking at none of your business. I was like, this became the parenting podcast. Parenting and business go hand in hand because most of my clients have businesses. And and meaning the the firm founder usually has a has a family as well. And like I said before, you can only be as happy as your saddest child. So, when you're running a company, you could have a thousand employees. You could have a hundred employees. Most people don't have a thousand employees. And you have one kid who's struggling and your whole life is upside down. Everything stops. And everything is hampered. So, it's important to figure it out. What's interesting to me is when I work with people in their business, inevitably I end up helping with something in their family at some point. And on the flip side of that, when I would help people in their families, they would say, "If you could do this with my kid, could you do it with my team? Could you do it with my key employee? Could you And And literally it's it's a I I use the business to help organize the family dynamics because it's much more uh linear, practical, boxy. You can fit into a box. The emotional pieces, in fact, if I could say one more thing and then I'll answer your question directly. The challenge is what what I'm going to call entanglements. If I go like this with my hands and I pick up and you look at my fingers, what which hand is this finger from? Or which you know, what's happening here is there's interdependencies. So, I'm not sure if I should increase my marketing budget, hire another salesperson, fire an operational issue, um move so-and-so's seat from here to here, switch offices, change product lines, double down on this thing, right? All of these questions in your business, you probably have all of these questions in your business every not every day, but when you're thinking about it. And any one thing that you do is going to break a bunch of other things. And you cannot afford to fail. Everything depends on you. Your family, your business, your employees, your community, everything depends on you. And when I say you, I mean you are my typical client cuz you are you could fit that avatar. And then anxiety shows up. And then panic shows up. And then overwhelm is there. Why? Because how else could it not be? The whole world is weighing you down and if you move any one piece, even a little bit, everything breaks. And you can't afford to fail. So you double down and you throw more money at it or you throw more people at it or you you just avoid it. You you go like this and you hide and you hope it'll go away. And it just gets worse. And the noise keeps getting louder. And So just love on it. Now I'm going back to parenting. So just love on it. Loving on it is not going to solve it. Set a boundary with it. Give it a timeline. Give it um Put a structure around it so you could understand it. I I say look at the spaghetti and pull out the one spaghetti and focus on this one thing. Pull out the next one. Leave the whole entanglement. Leave it all there. You say, "But I can't. But if I pull this, this falls, that falls, it slides all over the place." Yes. And also staying here is not working either. So it's a it's a paradoxical challenge. If I do nothing, it's broken. If I do something, it breaks. So you say shove all pasta. Don't do anything. And and that's the way to navigate this is to just pause. Right? That also doesn't work. So what could a parent do to to actually build a relationship with boundaries? That's the key question. What could an employer do to build a relationship with a key employee? Good. That's my question, exactly. Healthy healthy parents healthy children healthy employer and employee. Everybody's healthy and everybody has trauma today. And I'm not I'm not combining people. By the way, when I say healthy, I mean of course with a little bit of trauma and a little bit of trauma. Who doesn't have it? If you live in today's world, right? So, what can you do? Number one is make time, pay attention. Make time. Pay attention in a real way. Making time and paying attention is two things, by the way. I Make time. Oh. And pay attention. And pay attention. Okay. We make time and don't pay attention. >> Sure. Because we have something called a smartphone. Or a dumb phone, it doesn't matter. We have distractions. So, make time and pay attention. And acknowledge in some way. So, so um I could give you a whole bunch of models, but our sons and our daughters need different things from us. We think it's the same thing, it's not. Our sons need to know that um we see the best in them. For the father-son conflict. I think Avi and I once had this conversation, we could solve most of the challenges. This is like 20 20-something years ago. If we'd have everybody learn with someone else's son. Because if you learn with the neighbor's son, you'll see him great and you'll just boost him up. And if that guy learns with your son, we'll solve a lot of these problems because of that that father-son tension, if you will. The the our daughters need something else from us. And then again, we have the mother-daughter conflicts as well. We didn't have the solution for that one, I asked correctly. Um our daughters need to know that they're just they're the apple of our eye. They they have to feel that when when we see them, the the room lights up. And that they're they're valued that they that way. And this is an intergenerational challenge that we as a community struggle with and the world is struggling with worse. I want to go back one step. That whole love on them thing, do whatever, no boundaries, leads to the same transgender problems that are happening out there in the world being a problem in our community. If you'd set the boundary miles before, you wouldn't get this far. But I'm willing to bet that in the context, I only have one and a half, I want to say, 1.2, 1.5. Um in the in in 25 years of of people going down that path in in my ecosystem. Now you could say I'm working with a different ecosystem and have a different level and I will Okay, I hear and also I want to say one other thing and Avi and I agree on this as well. In the extreme, you have to make extreme moves. 95% of what you're doing should never have to be done in the extreme. So the in between, which is not the extreme, what he calls level four, stage four in the TP world is the extreme. That should be the 0.001%. That should not be the norm. That shouldn't be the initial intervention. The initial intervention should be firm firm boundaries with structure, with support systems. So if you take a kid who's learning challenged and who's not learning challenged today, everybody has ADHD at some level, which is just this regulation. We could talk about that as well. I went to sit with Peter Levine, train with Peter Levine when when Reggie Melrose was thinking about giving her Actually, there's another carryover. Reggie Melrose, the famous self-regulation training. Um she was thinking about doing a training and I said I just came back from training with Peter Levine and I would like to know what you're up to and what you're doing. And she said, "Well, maybe in the summer people could fly out to California." I'm like, "Nope, come to New York. Let's go do this." And then um she called Avi and was talking about it and then like from one second to the next, filled up a class and that was the beginning. That was the the launch of of of that style we're going to call uh the ability to learn the What her book is called the 60-Second Fix. I recommend it all the time. It's a simple four, five step model. I can show it to you of how to just get yourself back here quickly. Uh and it's important. It's an important healing tool. Everybody should be learning it. We're not teaching it. We're not learning it. We're we're not living it. So what could a parent do? Be regulated yourself. If we're not regulated as parents, our our kids cannot be regulated. There's something called co-regulation. Right? As you started off the beginning of this um all of the sudden I started I was like whoops. Oh, I'm camera shy. Okay, so I let it out. We're good. We moved on. We're here. Um if we get into a a more I don't know, riled up topic, we might get disregulated again. And we're going to feed off each other. You're very present. You're very you're good interviewer. You're calm. You're in the moment. You're here. You don't move. You don't flinch. You keep eye contact. Many people can't do that. They're flying. How many business owners do we both know that wouldn't sit in this chair this long? They'd be done. I I have to tell you I worked very hard on it. I We said this earlier, that's why I'm mentioning it. It's work. Of course, I can go to an ayahuasca treatment and have a shaman and and tap into my, you know, whatever and and risk it all or I can work. And that's part of relationships, which is just general, working on it. But So, I like what you're saying, making time paying attention and paying attention >> and then identifying the the gifts, the core skills, gifts, and abilities of your son or daughter or your employee. And acknowledging it in some way. And evoking it more. I I The third part is the most important. You have to do the first and second obviously to get to the third. Right. Actually, you want to know something? You have to do the prep work first. Sure. If you don't I used to do trainings for rabbaim and morahs. And one of the things I'd give them a a handout. Uh and I can share it with you if you want. It's a worksheet if you will for parents or or uh Uh parents, teachers, employers. >> worksheet. It's a bunch of things and there's a it's a very Believe me, there. If you remind me cuz I'll forget when we're done. I will make a short video and give you a PDF thing you could give to anyone to download. Sure. We'll put it on the link below. Link below. Click. Yeah. Um and subscribe. Subscribe. It's okay. So, yeah. So, acknowledging that and regulating Regulate yourself. And then yeah, you got to be present with them. If you're not present with them, so they're just going to pick up the coregulation is going to be dysregulation. How's that helping? Sure. And then, you know, sometimes a parent or or an How How many bosses will get so riled up and say, "Ah, I want to explode." And the only place I can let it out is with you. And I always tell Take it out on me. Don't take it out on your people. Whether it's your family or or your employees. They know, I would never. Uh-huh. And they can't see the neck veins and the thing They They don't get what's going on. They They don't feel it. How many people know they're being fired for 3 months before they're being fired? What if you just talked to them kindly? Say, "Hey, we have to have a a real conversation about what's going on. Here are my expectations. How can you meet them? Can you meet them? Can you not? Are we on the same page? Are we not on the same page? It's a same page conversation in some way, shape, or form." With their own kids, depending if they're little or they're big. Right? A 3-year-old, you're not going to talk to the same way you talk to a 13-year-old, same way you talk to a 30-year-old. I I like what you're saying. So, basically, when it comes to a student, it comes to an employee, it comes to a child, make the time. Go back to the third thing, which is find what they're good at. Let's focus on that for a second. >> Skill, tool, ability, way of showing up. Even if they're struggling. Even if they're struggling, there it is incredible to me. You asked me before, how much did I learn from working with kids who are struggling? Probably more than I learned in Yeshiva. I'm not talking about book smart tire. I'm talking about people smart. They taught me so much. Both because they asked me questions that I never would have thought of, and also because witnessing their struggles. And they would challenge me all the time, "But Rabbi, did you ever do drugs? How could you understand me? Did you ever have this?" No. I I had no real like awareness of where they were. So, I had to learn. I'll tell them Don't judge your friend I had to walk in their shoes, and the best way I could was to see the world through their eyes. Which is after you acknowledge them, the next step is to really listen deeply to understand. Right, so you have to work harder to be on that level. >> where are they Where are they coming from? I can't tell you how many uh people How many youth I've sent to therapy who would tell me, "You know me way better than my therapist. Can you talk to my therapist and explain it to them for me?" Um and again, it's a different model. It's it it it's just different. It's operating on a different frequency, on a different zone. So, if you If we could have a relationship, trusting relationship, with our kids, and now I want to go to business. I want to flip to business. Um a number of years ago, I started leaning into really learning how to facilitate conversation amongst business leaders. It's a super fascinating skill, facilitating um the the interplay dynamics. If you ever go to an event, and you're good at networking at an event, you pick a few people, and you just go deep with them. You're very good at that. Most people the most popular place at any given event is a bar. I want to start with a story. I'm going to go back for a step. There's a group in in Jackson, New Jersey. There's a few little communities, Hasidic mostly, um that wanted to bring the different people together into a room to get to know each other because a lot of guys with young guys with businesses who live in communities that are adjacent communities, who see each other in shul or in the mikvah, wherever, passing, don't really know each other, don't know what each other's doing. They wanted to create a networking event where people to get to get to know each other. They called it HBA1. Hamish Business Association, I think. And >> What about a Hamish Business Association? Maybe it was A with something else. I don't know. >> It's okay. And and they reached out to me um Many communities do this, by the way. It's a great idea. >> So, it was it was it was four or five or six, I don't know, communities, each one I don't know, developments, whatever you want to call them, 200 houses, whatever. And they reached out to me to facilitate or help them organize their event so that it would have maximum uh result. Sure. So, I said, "What's the result that you want?" And they started telling me and they were describing it. And I said, "Listen, I don't think that you can do what you want to do. And you're just trying to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall. It's probably not going to work, but I'm bought into your mission. Now, I I understood what they really wanted. What they really wanted was people should show up with a a sense of let's find out who each other's are, not people should be like a mosh pit, the better networker has got something and everybody else doesn't. And so, Shliema Friedman of of Lakewood fame and um and I worked a week before the event to rejigger how they did that event. And we we created the dynamics for the interplay. So, the game show at the beginning and the panelists that they interviewed and the way the structure worked and even the ambassadors were all geared towards we're going to make introductions versus we're going to get introductions. Our goal is to go introduce 10 people to each other. That's what we're going to do tonight. They had like 400 plus people show up. They had readings. Over 100 people filled out survey forms. 9.6 was the average. We're shocked that more than two people filled out a a survey. That's what I was thinking. That they they were like, "No, they said, "Why are we paying for the survey company?" I'm like, "Just It's a few dollars. Just do it." "We need to have a survey. We need feedback." Um it was incredible. The energy in the room was off the charts and they didn't want to leave. It was It was amazing. And it was because they aligned around a very clear mission. It was about giving, not taking. And and we jiggered jiggered, we arranged the event so that to create psychological safety, which was my punchline. The challenge is when anyone walks into a room at any given point in time, they're asking themselves two questions. Do I belong here? Do I fit? And if people would know who I really am, would they let me stay? We all ask that question consciously and subconsciously all the time. Can I be vulnerable for a minute? I mostly think I don't fit because I'm different. On the Yeshivish side, I'm not that Yeshivish. On the Balabatish side, I'm not that Balabatish. On the Chassidish side, I'm not that Chassidish. And this comes up for me last week. I was at a Chassidish Shabbos Sheva Brachos. I was the only bend down. Everybody was with a shtreimel, if they were wearing something on their head. Short jacket, only short jacket. I was the probably only one who davened before Shmone Esrei also. Um but I felt comfortable being there. I would they were warm and friendly and nice and these are people I know well and love and I'm connected to and I'm like a brother there. I'm in the in the aggregate of all the different people. But again, I'm different. And at one point it dawned on me like I'm the only bend down here with like, you know, all these shtreimels. So, do I fit? Actually, I don't. But I'm comfortable not fitting. I'm good. I'm in my own skin. I'm in my own body. I'm in I'm with my breath. Back to that. I'm connected to my breath. I'm good. I'm comfortable. I speak a little funny Yiddish compared to how they speak Yiddish. I don't understand everything they're saying. I operate on a kind of different on a frequency, but I can I can be there and be comfortable there. And and maybe be accepted or tolerated. It doesn't matter. And then if I go into a non-Jewish environment, right? You go we go to different trade shows. And and what's interesting is I assume you get this uh similar to me where people say, "You know, you're different than most of the Jews I meet." I get that comment all the time from secular Jews, from non-Jews. And I've asked myself why. What is it about me? What what How am I showing up? That's different that people are actually saying to me. It's It's a little weird to tell a stranger you're different. The lady on the plane next to you. I can't tell you how many times the person next to me on the plane like wants to connect with me on LinkedIn and talk to me not about anything important. It's just like This was the most fascinating plane ride I ever had or something. And half the time I just wanted to like either take a nap, learn something or like Right? Like what you said enough already. You be So So By the way, it's a captive audience. You know there's people who like the middle seat cuz they have two people to bother. They look for the middle cuz they get two. I never knew that existed. No, it does. I doesn't name for it. I don't know what it's called. Anyway, I just made it up. I have no idea. I'm sure there are people like that. Um and it's because of your presence. It's because of how you show up. It's because how you pay attention. It's because you can see them without judgment and they can feel that. Because what's going on inside is getting transmitted even if we're not saying it. And we live in an interconnected society. I'm going on a tangent here. We live in a We're so connected to each other that we fear the disconnect so much we don't actually show up authentically. What That's a good That's a good line. It is too risky to be real because if people would know the real what's going on with us, they would reject us or eject us from the community. So our strength in community has become our weakness. Which is why lonely at the top for from business owners is probably worse than for non-Jews. Because a non-Jew can go to EO and YPO and and wherever and just put it all on the table. Everything. No one's going to judge him and no one's going to know him. And if we walk into any room anywhere in the whole world, someone's going to know us and someone might hold it against us and it might come back to bite us. Interesting. So our strength becomes our weakness which goes all the way back to the beginning conversation about dark and light. Everything has a flip side. Our community has become also a challenge for us in community. So, we back to your question of how do we do this? And I'm trying to bridge business and family on purpose. Uh you don't have to say it anymore. It's automatic, yeah. How many times do we have to repeat something till people get the message? In general? One time if they're paying attention. One time if they're paying attention under distress with not enough distress that they're distracted. Okay. That's when they pay attention. >> Okay. >> The rest of the time, it's just a million other messages that they didn't get and you think you said it or you know you said it and they even heard it and they acknowledged it and they repeated it back to you and they have no idea that you ever said it. So, this is actually really important. What's your family mission? What does your family stand for? What are your family values? >> Are you asking me? In general, do we know? I'm I'm that's a general question. >> Sure. Do we ever talk about it? No, we assume everybody knows. I've never gotten that question before. That's why I was like, "Whoa, you asked me that question. It's a good question." It's a It's a It should be a core level question that we all ask. So, we assume that we know it. What do you mean? Tyra, metzuyas. Okay, great. So, when I was tired and I overslept and I missed minyan and my kids saw me putting on tfillin. Okay, it didn't really happen for like 20 years, but I'm just saying, right? Um actually have a neighbor, the the rebbe in yeshiva in I forgot grade school was I forgot what grade was talking about tallis and tfillin. And he said, "All your tatty's put on tallis and tfillin." One kid raises his hand and he says, "No, not my tatty." And it became like a almost like a it was a thing in class. So, the rebbe very bashfully calls the father. He says, "Listen, it's not really my business, but I have to tell you the chinuch of your son." And a whole story about He really have to put on tfillin. You can't not put on tfillin. And the kid's like 100% adamant you don't wear tfillin. So, it takes the father a minute. He goes, "I don't have a seeking every single day. My kid has no idea. The only time he sees me going to shul is on Shabbos. So, my tatty only wears a tallis. He doesn't wear tefillin. Fascinating point. That point that you're making now is really what uh got me going about the question of what is a family mission. Because if your kids don't know, if you're proverbially like living a lifestyle of vasikin, where I'm doing good and I'm doing my thing, and they don't know what your family mission is and what your values are, you're not going to stay connected. I really like your message about, you know, you know, finding what's what's good in your employee and your child and picking up on that. Rabbi Chesky Sherman, who was here a few podcasts ago, he actually mentioned as well, he said when you compliment your kid, compliment them on their values. Yes. Such a great line. I'm repeating it again because not just like, oh, wow, you cleaned up your room so nice. No, no, no, no. What you did and how you did it is so meaningful because of your values. I I like that we're picking up on that again. What is your value system at home? How are you living your life as a mission? Do your children actually know it? And do you even know it or think about it? I love that. Let's move on. That pip that PDF that I told you I could give you >> Yeah. is based on what you just quoted. Yeah. It's not based on a behavior. A behavior is an outcome of a choice, which is an outcome of a who you are at a core. So, there's in other words, of course we have to acknowledge the the human inside. If we're just looking at the behavior, then we're training monkeys. You could train a monkey to do a behavior. And we focus a lot on behavior. But really, we have to focus on the human part. And and we've lost this a lot in society because we look at external trappings. We look at external show. Social media has made this a million times worse. Social media is poison. It is the worst way to start your day, end your day, or have in your day at any level. It is destructive on every single level, and there's billions and billions of dollars being spent every hour to distract you from what's important and what matters. And to have you live in contrast and comparison to something fake. Yeah, I that's that's a >> Goes without saying. Yeah, no, it it it it really does, but you still have to keep saying it because Cuz no one hears it. Cuz people aren't hearing it enough from the experience that we have of how it's distracting in a negative way. I agree with you, but I was saying earlier, let's move on to the next thing simply because um in talking about children and employees and all that. So, we're talking about how to give over. Let's now go back into how to take control of your own life, which is really what we started talking about. You said the 60-second book or something. I'd like to I'd like for you to actually teach me what that book says in in in 50 seconds or less. Okay. Um and then talk about how I was on the phone with you and I was away for a full week in uh in a in a world where it was just a playful world. It was I was skiing and uh when I travel um for vacation, like strictly just vacation, which I very rarely do. I I go I travel a lot, but the travel and completely disconnect doesn't happen often, but when I do, I disconnect and I don't check my phone. I literally I I don't check my emails. I it's I'm completely gone. So, all those responsibilities that I have are just completely off my head. So, out it was off my head for a week. And then I came back and it was Friday and then from 6:00 in the morning that morning of not sleeping for 3 days prior to that traveling because uh Jay Walden wanted to go to Courchevel, so we had to go to Courchevel. So, you have to go from you're in middle middle of the winter and drive to Dallas Airport in Washington to fly down to connecting flight to go through uh Switzerland to drive 3 hours, right? So, just getting back home, you can imagine wasn't fun either. Best trip ever, by the way. Amazing skiing and and and tremendous. They're great Chabad there, by the way, also. Met amazing people. The point is, though, got back and did vasikin Friday morning and started my day and one thing after another started popping up. It was like, okay, so I got the school board challenges here. I got the business things that I got to do over here and I started jumping into it, every single one of them. And I kept, you know, responding to messages that I didn't respond to in for a couple of days. I've been archiving messages. That's how I know to go back to it. So, I'm going back to it and I'm like, okay, one after another. And then came you. And you're like, "Dude, are we going to do this podcast?" And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, we're going to do it. We're going to I'm thinking in my head, okay, but it's you know, again I'm back. It's time-wise, you know, Osher's busy doing so much at Prime Source now that he's got to focus on it and it's very important for us. Thank you again, Osher, for all your hard work that you're doing and allowing me to do this. >> Absolutely. Um, you know, I I I have said it before and and I mean it and and don't take it as an insult, but don't worry. When we have someone in that he's like, you know, oh, that's the guy I got to be here for. I'll pull him out and I'll schedule it, but this had to happen last second. The point is that I'm on the phone with you and you're kind of frustrated. And I'm going to be honest with you and I'm going to tell you vulnerable and that's why I said I don't want to start the conversation like this is because you are a schedule guy. And in speaking to you, you can tell in the tone of your voice that you are a schedule guy. There are people that I deal with that are schedule people. And you know how I deal with them? I don't. I just I don't do scheduling in 3 months from now, let's have lunch. It's like, I'm available this week. You want to do lunch, let's do it. Of course, if you're making a wedding, you have an event, you have a networking thing, I have to put it in my calendar. I have in my notes. I don't have my calendar. My notes, upcoming events. And I have, you know, in the next 6 months, all the things that I have to be at. So, whenever someone says, "Are you available in 2 3 months?" I have to open my notes, go to upcoming events. So, scheduling podcasts are usually week to week, you know, but with you it was two, three weeks in advance. Let's put it in the calendar, lock it in. And you and I kept trying to lock it in over and over again. Let's lock it in. Let's lock it in. And we locked it in once or twice and it just didn't work out because I have to travel. I have to for business and, you know, something personal. I felt in the tone of your voice that you were frustrated and also in the messaging and I was like, "Okay, I I I want to do good by you." And I felt bad. And the pressure and the pile of pressure that I just came off a board phone call for a school and a conversation in the business that I missed something and I had to participate in and I also felt bad about that. And and the common theme was the responsibilities that I came back to. And the me feeling bad that I wasn't getting it all done while I was on the phone with you, I started to feel dizzy. And you were talking and I wasn't even listening and it wasn't one of those typical talking and I was listening, but I knew you were frustrated about the schedule and you were being very nice, but I felt the undertone like it was I was being disrespectful to you because you're such a schedule guy and I'm not. So, I'm like, "Oh my god." And it wasn't frustrating me from that perspective. It was just like I wanted to do good by you and be respectful. Fali Klein recommended you. You need to be here. This is the process. This is like I want to get recommended guests on the seat and see how it continues and I want to see who you're going to recommend and let's get that person and, you know, if I mention someone like Avi Schiffman, I want to have him on and that's how my brain works. Like the responsibilities just continue to pile on. So, I'm on the phone with you and I'm walking and I'm pacing and I'm uh you know, I'm in my home office and I'm just like walking around. And I say to you, uh I'm not I'm not really feeling good. I just hung up on you. You just hung up. I just hung up. Disconnected. I just disconnected. And when I hung up with you, my feeling was my blood pressure was going like like down and I was like, "Oh my god. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I had this feeling and I I can't say it in any other way. And for those of you that had a panic attack in the past, you'll agree with me. Like I was dying. I was This is it. My life is over. Lights out. What's that? >> Lights out. Lights out. Something's happening in my life that means that this is going to end. And I need to do certain things. I need to make some phone calls and I need to take care of certain things. And my life was just spinning around me that this is it's over. It's like 10 seconds away from being over. So, the first thing I did was a call to Hatzolah. 718-230-1000. I I'm in Rockland. I don't know the number here off by heart. Now I know it, but then I just didn't know it. I call Hatzolah and I'm like, "I'm in Rockland. I need a Okay, hold on. I'm going to connect you." He couldn't connect the the Monsey Hatzolah and I was getting very frustrated and again feeling like I'm dying and I'm like, and and I I'm like, "I don't Is the number 845-230-1000?" Yes. I called the you know, Rockland Hatzolah. They came over and we realized that I had a panic attack. And then I got, you know, back to life and you know, you know, things were okay and I realized what had happened and I worked through it from then till now in a lot of different ways. I did ayahuasca. I'm kidding. Um but I I I went through that process and I have to tell you also, being vulnerable, I come back on my phone and there is Ezra Max saying, "If you would have stayed on the phone with me, I could have walked you through it." And I'm like, "Kiss my tuchus. Are you kidding me? This is what you I'm calling Hatzolah. I'm done." No, but if you would have stuck on the phone with me, I could have walked you I was so frustrated from that comment. I'm like, "I can't wait to bring it up when he gets here, and I will. And that's where we're up to right now. Who the hell do you think you are to tell me you're going to walk me down from a panic attack as opposed to don't call it sala, call me. Like, really, bro? Like, come on. So, first, I want to apologize. Because as you're saying it, I feel tears in my eyes. Like, oh my gosh, I really traumatized this guy for no reason. And then I want to say thank you. Because the last person in the world who anyone would think lives with a schedule is ADHD me. So, the idea that your impression of me is that I live work on a tight schedule is an incredible compliment, a testament to a lifetime of making sure that I am organized so that I can show up for others. Because for my own husband, there is no schedule. I make schedules to to function, but I have to cater to others. So, in order to be available for others in a proper way, my schedule is to in service of working with other people. For myself, who cares about the schedule? So, I I'm sorry, and thank you. Apology accepted, and you're welcome. And then from the who is this guy who does he think he is egotistical freak. So, I don't know if you know this, but not only was an I am an EMT, but I was on the board. I ran multiple ambulance companies over the last 25 years. So, and I have a ton of experience in the street, specifically in the mental health space. So, not only do I have multiple trainings, e.g. Peter Levine, uh Reggie Melrose, some others, Polyvagal etc., that are all in the regulation space. In fact, the reason that I have the reason that I have promoted Polyvagal breath work is because it took me a few years, but when I realized that underneath self-regulation and somatic is breath work, like the core of it is actual breath. And the idea that you could bring a Kadosh Baruch Hu into your breath and and God's exhale is your inhale, right? By Yipach Ruach Hashem, blew into Adam's nose. Our inhale is God's exhale. It's a it's a a cyclical thing. To bring that forward into the world is a critical need in today's world. That's what we need more than anything else. Anxiety is off the charts, which is a a an extreme dysregulation. So you're saying, "What do you mean? How is by you could be able to help me in 2 seconds?" I don't know, can we try? Okay, but you're not having a panic attack now. So I want to tell you a thought that I had as you're speaking. Your life did end in that moment on that phone call. It'll never be the same. And the reason it took so long to get this thing scheduled is cuz you and I were not ready for that change. Both for me and for you. And I say this after years and years of experience knowing that nothing happens by chance and every interaction leads to a fascinating revelation. That comment where you said, "I felt like my life was ending." Your identity as Michael Greenfield prior to that moment is not the same as the Michael Greenfield I'm sitting with today and not the same as the Michael Greenfield who'll be here tomorrow. Well, tomorrow's Shabbos. Sunday. How can I say that with such calm, clear determination? Because it's true. And I see it happen over and over and over again. And when I asked you, "What's the goal of your podcast?" "Why are you doing this?" Back when we spoke whenever it was you said "Actually it started off as sort of a marketing thing and we were just like feeling our way around, but now it became something I could learn and grow from. And inside I said, "Oh, this is going to be interesting for both of us." So, I'm sorry I came across as annoyed or frustrated or whatever. Um I want to do right by you and by your listeners and I want to show up in the right headspace, in the right frame of mind with the ability to serve in a way that makes a difference because that identity thing I was talking about back in September of 2001 happened to me multiple times, different incidents. And I don't want to go down this whole pathway of uh almost losing my vision during COVID. For a guy who sees things before other people see it, who's ahead of the curve multiple times throughout my life where I just know something, I see potential in people and I don't love that word the way it's used. Rabbi Wolbe and I used to argue about potential all the time. I'd be like, "Never use the word potential because potential is weaponized. You have so much potential. If only so-and-so would behave, they have so much potential." Think about all those report cards. Most of my clients over the years as teenagers would have potential multiple times on their report cards. It's a weaponized word. Now, the joke is on me because I have a 21-year-old daughter and she's the Esther Max, incredible, incredible young woman who has a keynote speech on extreme potential called X Potential. Extreme potential, X Potential. And she's leveraged this in multiple scenarios from high school to seminary to work to she's she's in a school now helping kids who are struggling in in Nefesh Academy. And the joke's on me that my own kids running around with an X Potential keynote speech. Um So, not the weaponized kind of potential. The innate potential, the God-given potential, the abilities that we barely barely tap into. I was looking at the letter mem this week. Mem is the only letter that's spelled it with its own letters. So, mem, when you spell out mem, is mem and the mem. It has a open mem and it has a closed mem. And it's also the first letter in Moshe Rabbeinu's name. And mem, one of the things it represents, 40 40, we know 40 is uh uh 40 saw, 40 days. The 40 is a is a number uh uh of of creation. And and it's also mayim. Torah. The the core of the life. As much as we know is how little we know. The more we learn, the more we know we don't know. And it does does we we start, but there's a limit. It's just It's It's just impossible to achieve all of it. And so, and I want to talk about goal setting, so if I don't get there, we're going to close with that. My new perspective on goal setting. How can I help you or anyone or how could I claim that someone who's having a panic attack is able to get out of it quickly, just like that, without me knowing anything? Like what goal do I have to tell someone who feels like their life is flashing in front of them? Well, you called Hatzalah, what did you want them to do for you? I want to make sure I'm not having a heart attack. I had no idea what a panic attack was. So, my first reaction is I don't know what's happening, call Hatzalah, which I highly recommend to anyone to They should. You know, do not call Azor Max if you feel like you're having a heart attack. >> Please don't. I used to run an ambulance company, I don't. >> But, you can definitely call him to tell you why or how to use the 60-second book >> that you were mentioning before or the tools that you have, and in 30 seconds tell me now if I would have told you, Ezra, I'm having a panic attack. >> I'm having a panic attack, what do I do? Go. I would have told you, is there a chair nearby? Sit in the chair, please. You're in a chair right now. Feel the chair supporting you. Take in the support of the chair and settle into the chair. Your seat, your back, just notice the chair. Feel where the chair is supporting you. Take your feet, put them flat on the ground. And imagine you're at the beach with your feet in the sand. And that your feet are planted in the sand. And notice the bottom you feel that there's tingling in the bottom of your feet. I can feel it here. So, you feel it. You want to know how do I know your feet are tingling? Check. Notice your feet. Notice your seat. Notice your back. And now, blow out very calmly. And then in with your nose. And then in with your nose. And take it as far down into your belly as you can. And in a moment, I'm going to have you take your right or your lefty? Righty. Put your hand on your belly. And then the next one, just push in a little bit. Push in. When you're exhaling, push in on your belly. Hold for a second. That's the tension coming out. I'm not tense. I just feel the tension coming out. Feel your feet again. And in a moment, you'll probably notice a feeling in your temples or your forehead, maybe the back of your neck, maybe even your throat. Something will subtly shift. And if you go back into your head, you're trying to decode what I'm doing cuz it looks like you went into thinking brain. Just come right back to your feet. And find your feet on the floor. Your foot dancing tells me that you just got You went back into your head. You Yeah, because I'm thinking too much about it. It's not the right moment to do it, but I like that you're describing how to do it if someone wants to. So, it's uh >> the thing. So, that's very important for anyone listening to to understand that, you know, if they go through a moment or a challenge to sit down and notice their surrounding and uh you know, breathe properly and you know, notice your breathing on your stomach from in and out, which was very, very helpful. So, I definitely appreciate that. Pause for one minute. It is so important to do this not under duress. I was at a training where there was a special agent in charge from FBI special agent in charge of I forget what. Who was doing a training on active shooter scenario. Negotiations, that guy? Not that guy, not Chris Voss. And actually I was in the room and he was talking about an active shooter scenario and and you know, hide and lockdown and all this stuff. Pray. Yeah, he didn't say that. Take out your gun. That was what I was saying. Um, and so I I said, "But sir, he said oh he said this comment. He said, "You will fail to your highest level of training." Now, you don't know this but I actually went to the peace officer academy. I'm uh in New York State. I have to go to academy, firearms training, all different types of cool stuff, right? And uh I said, "What do you mean you'll fail to your highest level of training? Won't you succeed to your highest level of training?" He said, "Nope." Under duress, when someone's attacking you, you're not going to be able to be creative. Your creative brain is going to be offline. Only your training, your highest level of ingrained training is going to show up. So if someone's having an active panic attack and you're not trained in this thing internally, you're not going to remember what to do. Like you don't remember how to tell someone's phone number. That's a perfect example. Overwhelm, you remember the thing that you had practiced not under duress. That's why I said before, people don't hear the messaging but not too much pressure. So it has to be enough pressure that they're paying attention, right? Which is why people have to pay. People have to pay to pay attention. I didn't understand this. I used to give away a lot of free time. I still do, but differently. And I realized that I would help people but I would hurt them because I would give them some type of solution very quickly. But because they didn't pay for it, they wouldn't necessarily implement it and then they would say, "Well, he doesn't have anything else for me." Or they would wait a year till they called me back. And they lost out a whole year of growth and development. And so now I've switched that. People pay to pay attention and interestingly enough, they have tremendous results. Nothing to do with me. Because it's not about me. I'm just I'm just a in service of Hashem's goodwill in the world. I I think you're grinning at me. I don't know why. I'm a nothing. I'm a nobody. I have skills, talents, abilities. I'm I'm this weirdo who's okay with my weirdoness, if you will. Um and I could be very normal. But not in a normal conventional sense. By the way, anyone who tells me they're normal, I get worried about because normal means like everyone else. And just like we all have different fingerprints, we're all different. We just try to look the same. Rabbi Spevak told me a long time ago, you can't say someone's not normal. You say they're not common. So I like that. Uncommon. >> Yeah, exactly. Uh no, I was looking at you because you were describing something that I think people need to verbalize more, which is we are a uh messenger. We are put here for a reason. It's like people who make money and think that they uh are are put in this world to just spend it. You know, it's a conduit. You're a messenger of how to spend that money properly and give back to the community and grow and do which I which I love. Love the people, not the money. Money is a servant, not the master. Remember that. I said it before and I should say it again. Tzitzit. Bless you. Uh Stefan, we'll uh we'll make a clip out of that. Uh your final thought that you wanted to mention, I don't want to forget about it before we wrap up. You said something, a new way of thinking of organizing something. >> Oh, goals. Okay. Yeah. >> So, time. Two things I want to say. Back to to this schedule thing somehow got in your way. I don't know why. I don't care about that. I'm way past that whole point. No, no, no. I want to tell you something. There's something fascinating in your way of navigating around schedule that actually is going to be interesting to work through. Period. Yeah, that's all I have to say about it. That's an invitation and a challenge. Okay. Um number two, I have a gift for you after Oh. This has This is actually part of this conversation. >> want to say I hate gifts, but bring it on. So So >> to say it cuz I I got taught so many times you have to say it. You know, if you don't So many times you have to >> If you hate uh gifts, you can live a long life. >> you can pay for it. So I said it. But go ahead. >> This journal was created um It's called a um a journal of Becoming. Take a look at it. It was it's based on the content in a course called Vessel, which is about building yourself and becoming more By Ally Klein. Oh my god, a one-line-a-day 5-year journal. Okay. But look at the top every day. What's your Michael, what's your what's your birthday? What's your birthday? The book is empty. You got to fill it in. >> But there's a New York Times number one best seller that I saw There's nothing there. Everything that men know about women. About blank pages. This is not blank pages though. There's room to fill in. So and there's rules or My birthday, you want me to go to? What's your birthday? All right, September 26th. I'm a proud Libra, all about balance. And what's the quote at the top of the page, please? What's the quote on top of the page of September 26th? I'm imagining it has something to do with my personality. Uh safety grows in the soil of consistency. Okay. Okay. All right, that's nice. >> So each day of the 365-day year has a quote that comes directly out of the Vessel content or that's our breath work content. Okay. And it's meant as an anchor or potentially something to to as an anchor to wrap your wits around potentially to >> April 1st. Healthy anger is meant to end cycles, not start wars. Uh so who made up all these lines? Is this valid? >> Ally's content. Good for you, Ally. Thank you. I appreciate the fact that you recommended such a superhero over here today. And it comes with a matching pen for And it comes with a matching pen. Phenomenal. So what am I supposed to do? So today, for example, Today, I'm opening it up. Go ahead. You go ahead. What's today's date? Whatever it is. >> March something. No, no, you got to pick the right date. I'm I'm going to, but I'm saying but but what am I what am I It has a date. >> Yeah. Okay. Then it on the right side it says what day of the week it is. So it's Friday, circle Friday. On the top you can fill in what year it is. Okay. You fill in 2020, Friday. And then you can do this one of you could do this a number of ways you could do this. A very fascinating way to do this what were the highlight moments from the day so you have a record and over 5 years you're going to come back to the same date and see, "Oh my, this time last year I was sitting in the studio." >> I love you dearly. There's no way I'm ever going to fill anything out over here. I'm just being honest with you. I don't fill out journals. I don't write things like this. I I don't read as much as I should, so I you know with your wife and do it together at night. Spend a moment >> It's just not going to happen. >> re-hashing the day. >> I'm just not that guy. There are some people that will write things down and you can connect to them and then open up yourself and then I'm not I'm not writing I write things down here. I'm not Me personally, it doesn't work. However, I will re-gift this to somebody, maybe one of my kids who I think it will be a good you know journey for them. I said that on purpose. It's a good journey. No, but I appreciate the gift nonetheless. Thank you. I'm just being honest with you. I'm not going to fill it out. >> I believe you. And I struggle to fill it out regularly. But you work on yourself and this is the kind of work that you want to do. Yeah, no, I do, but not with writing stuff down. Yet. Can I tell you something fascinating about meta-processing? Go ahead. We think we learn from experience, which is why people are running after experience after experience after experience. No, no, I Actually distracting. Hold on. This experience experience. I am so happy and like excited for you that you went away, shut off your phone, disappeared, and and checked out. Because a real vacation requires that. I have a client who goes away relatively regularly, but he works while he's away. And I told him, "Don't go away if you're working. Go away. You need the time. Recalibrate, come back fresh. Don't be working while you're gone." I can't. Okay, you need to. The more you can't go away, the more you have to. I didn't always believe this, but I've come to learn this, and it's important. Number one. Number two, we don't learn from experience. We learn from processing an experience. And the way we best process an experience is by thinking it through, writing something about it, and then sharing it and getting a reflection from another. So, you're right. Journaling is not for most people or for many people. I don't know most. I don't know what most is. But the act of journaling takes things from that cluttered head and puts it on paper and then gives us an opportunity to kinesthetically connect with it and also to process it just for ourselves. And so it could anchor thoughts, beliefs, ideas, growth, movement. And so the encouragement is to try something new, but you don't have to do >> Only cuz you use such a cool word like kinesthetically will I think about journaling something simply because I do what you're saying already. I just don't do it consciously and with intention. So I'm going to start, which is I do learn from other people's experience because why should I God forbid have to go through such a terrible experience of someone else's. So I process it and I do write it down. There These are things that I've done in the past, but subconsciously. Subconsciously write it down? No, meaning like I don't even realize I'm writing it down. I'm writing it down like, oh, I learned from it. Now I know in the future when I learn something from experience with someone, I'll try to find the journal, I'll borrow it from whichever kid I give it to and put in a line and I'll put in a line on that day of something I learned and I can look back and reflect upon it and learn from that in the future, which is so cool. I love that. What do you learn from today so far? Cuz I'll give you one more. I was going to say that we we always like to finish up our podcast with you asking me a question and that can go as your question. Is that your question for me? Sure, but I want to talk to you about goals, so are we going to wrap on that question? >> Yeah. And let me talk to you about it. >> Yeah. I I am going back and rereading some of the material that I got from Bob Proctor many years ago. And I I my fascination with goal setting was very much influenced by him. And today I think about goals as pathways thinking. Meaning goals should should be attainable, achievable, smart goals. We talk about have courses and lectures on it if you will. And I've I've helped people, you know, navigate this. But that's within our capacity. What about the goals that are beyond? Not stretch goals, but like extra stretch goals where I don't know how I can achieve that. Goals are not meant to be accomplished. Goals are meant to stretch us so we become more of who we can become. So if If can think of how I'm going to get to something, it's not actually a goal. If you think you want to lease a new car, you want to drive a fancier car, very easy, tangible, specific, you can afford it. So, what's the difference? It's not actually a goal for you. But if you think you want to own a plane and you have no idea how you're going to pay for a plane right now, or you want to fly a plane and you're not even thinking about a pilot's license, that's going to now change how you think about what you're doing for the next 6 months, if you really want to fly that plane. But if it's not really a goal and it's just something that's a distraction, then okay, let it go. What are you trying to really accomplish? Who are you trying to become? Because you need to become that person in order to accomplish that thing. And so, when we think about when when I think about goals and I talk about goals, I'm thinking about who is it that we're striving to become. Where is it? Because there's an identity piece that I see I see my clients going through. Where there's a shift. They built something, they're responsible, they're smart, they're creative, they're adaptive. Everything is figureoutable. They They They got here, and it wasn't It wasn't without being talented, creative, adaptable, driven, determined, having mazel, davening, giving tzedakah, all of those things, right? But now we're hitting a wall or a ceiling. And there's actually an identity piece that's showing up. And I used to talk about strategy and tactics and all this stuff and mindset, and that's important, but even more important than that is identity. Identity is core, and identity shifts over time, especially as we're getting a little bit older and a little bit more mature, and our responsibilities are shifting. Who is it that I am becoming? And we don't always slow down to ask that question. So, life happens. Stressors happen and force us to pay attention. And that's really where the real work begins. All of the stuff that gets us here was just the framework, the foundation to get to these identity. Once we have this identity, then we could start framing our decisions and then our behaviors will be reflected in that. I really like the idea of being conscious about your goals and pushing yourself and it's smart, it's a good way of thinking and it it makes everything that you're doing throughout your day and your life relevant and with intention. So, I like that a lot. So, I appreciate that uh very much. Thank you for that. Um so, again, wrapping up your your question to me. If you have any questions, you asked me one quickly before, what did I learn about >> what do you take away from our conversation today? Um I I take away uh don't judge a book by its cover because you look like a Henoch Teller, but you are a force to be reckoned with. You are a machine. You are a police. You are a leader. You are a thought visionary type of guy and and and the fact that you uh you know, you're a carrier or you of of, you know, uh I mean a gun carrier, you know. Uh it's not something I would think about when I see you and I think that's what you get a lot when you travel is that you look like a Rabbi Mashkiach influencer from a holy spiritual level, but you're so down-to-earth and you're so relevant with experience that are that happens here and you have a plethora Oh, she likes that word, so that's for you of information that's very very usable to share, usable information to share. So, I appreciate that learning that about you today. >> Thank you. So, I'm going to ask you a question about me based on your reflection. Is using the title Rabbi a pro or a con as I navigate the world of business owners, business leadership, real influence? I think that because your name is not Chaim Yankel, um you could be Rabbi Ezra Max and it's cool. You have a cool name. And uh your cool name can ride along with the with the preface of uh saying I'm a Rabbi as well. So, you're a cool Rabbi. You're the rabbi I want to get to know. You're the rabbi that's putting a good name for other rabbis. And you're not just the rabbi that knows, like I always say, meat and dairy or, you know, you can identify a cloth. You're a rabbi that you can learn from, and that's why I'm proud to call you rabbi and friend. So, thank you >> Thank you. I appreciate that. I I I grew up around real rabbis. I say my father's the real rabbi, and I had the opportunity to be around Gedolim um throughout my life, throughout my >> Who's the biggest godol you've ever met? I I don't know how to rank Gedolim, but Gedolei Hador, so um I was I don't know who to who to pick, if you will. I'll tell you two two fascinating stories. >> Someone I'd be interested in hearing. That's all right. Um Dov Feinstein, zatzal. Okay. >> Um who who >> Amazing human being. Um actually, the conversation about calling a tzala and whatever I had him a question about what happens if a psychiatrist or psychologist is saying one thing and I'm saying something else. Like, how do I navigate that tension? Because I want to be And you're on a hatzala call? No, or whatever. The situation with a client and whatever he However he answered me. It was a very real conversation for me because what he talked about was achrayus. Our conversation that led was about responsibilities. >> Yeah. Um He I was I fascinating how how he he answered without getting into the It's not a a conflict. It's a It's about responsibility and and whatnot. That was one. And then there's another story I had with uh Reb Yisroel Belsky, zatzal. I don't know the Shiva of Shari Yeshua in Boro Park. >> Oh. Who was respected by the Hasidish and the Litvish. And there was a school I was doing a workshop for for teachers, and they said that I couldn't come speak because I didn't have haskama from a a rav. From their From a rav or from their own? >> I'm not sure if it was their They needed his haskama or something. Sure. So, I I went with somebody who I respect, a mentor of mine, to a talmid of his to go meet with him later night in his house. And I went over my curriculum. And he says, "Is there anything else?" And we went through it. And he said, "So, what's the problem?" I said, I don't I don't know. We talked about this thing about respect, about how to identify kids who are struggling, and how not to penalize them for struggling, and how to build them, and how to build their self-esteem, which is key, by the way, we didn't talk about this. We must always be thinking, "How am I building and uplifting this person's self-esteem?" Whatever we're doing, if we have that one filter, "How am I helping this person in front of me feel better about themselves?" Well, you have accomplished everything we needed to do without any other pieces to it. And then, um as we were leaving, he said to me, "And if you want, you don't have to have a beard." He was very marked by not having beards. So, I was shocked. I said to him, "I shouldn't have a beard?" Like, "W- Why not?" I I I I was just taken by surprise. And he he I think he put his hand on my on my arm, my shoulder, and he said, "Because there are kids who will be able to be more connected from you if you're clean-shaven, and they won't they won't be able to listen to you if you have a beard." And without thinking, I blurted out, which I have a tendency to do, I said, "Rosh Yeshiva, I want to have a bigger beard because kids could still talk to me even with a beard, and even the ones who won't talk to a beard, I I want I I want to be able to um be there in that way for them." Wow. I'm just giving you permission. Wow. Well, you you you remind me of that story. Yeah. Okay, yeah, makes sense. I like that. And um of course, before we wrap up, um our final question that I would ask you is who would you recommend would be a good person to sit in that seat. If you started a podcast tomorrow, who would you go after? Who would that person be? I thought about this question. I have a whole long list of people that you should definitely interview. And the gentleman that I want to recommend >> Who's the one? The gentleman I want to recommend um sold his company for almost a billion dollars. He's a frum guy, and every conversation that we've had come out, every conversation starts or ends with a dvar Torah. For and and and has a flavor of who are we being and how are we showing up in the real world. And his name is Mark Badner, Mark Badner. He's the current CEO of Future Care or what Future Care Consultant whatever FPC it's now called. It's a conglomerate of companies in the health care space. You know him? I met him for the first time at Ecap 3 months ago and I can't wait for you to call him and ask him to come on. I don't know if He's a guy with the schedule so you're going to have to schedule. Come on. You're going to have to schedule. >> you I'm going to give you something I'm going to tell you something interesting. The people that I have met over the past decade or so the wealthier and more successful they are the more time they have for people. It's fascinating. >> He makes by the way Friday I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. It's a Friday and sign. Yeah, go go ahead. I'm saying >> a what? You talked to him? Yeah, I'm calling you. Are you giving him heads up? I I was I didn't say anything about that. I'm okay with what you're doing. I'm just teasing. Oh, I have to take myself out of airplane mode. Good for you that you went on airplane mode. >> Yeah, otherwise Yeah, yeah. We're good. I respect your time and space. It would be uh Thank you. Uh what what is he doing on Fridays? Fridays he makes time for people that he mentors who are up and coming in the business world and he schedules appointments with them and he talks through their business plan, what they're up to, what their next action steps are. Still a I don't I just announced it to the whole world that he does that. Oops. Yeah, you know, if people need it then it's good to know. Otherwise how are people going to know, right? >> Should I put him on speaker? Absolutely. You could tell him who you're with. Of course. And and uh that you recommended him. >> You can hear I'll put it up here. He works on a schedule and he has appointments. >> I'm I'm messing with you. If he doesn't pick up obviously it's okay and you'll get him on and I appreciate the attempt. By now he would have picked up. Thank you to all of our subscribers. Thank you again to the Prime Source production team. Thank you to Steph, Will, and all the people behind the scenes who are doing phenomenal with all the editing and the shorts. We're doing some great stuff out there. We really appreciate your comments and your feedback. And thank you so much Ezra Max for joining us. Thank you, man. This has been a pleasure. And thank you. It's a wrap. Amazing. Wow. Phenomenal. Beautiful.