Swinging for Success: Golf Stories and Business Glories With Al Tenenbaum and Maier Arm

What was the most holes you played of golf in one day? 72. Wow. Is that even possible? Yes. So, we played 18 18 holes in one round. We played four different rounds. Al and I did this before us. Four different rounds, four different courses on the same day. Teed off about 7:35. We played the first round in about 2 hours and 45 minutes. Then we played the next round in about 3 hours, then the next one in 2 hours, and then about 3 hours. Nice 14-hour day, 72 holes. And then you died. None of your business, Oushi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business Podcast hosted by Michael and Oushi. Welcome back to another episode of a None of Your Business Podcast. Now, you might notice that this podcast is missing an essential piece. I kind of feel a little bit naked here without him, without my my side piece, Michael Greenfield. So, Michael is currently in Israel. So, he's going to be there for about 3 weeks. And the show must go on. Just because Michael leaves doesn't mean that everything stops. So, Michael and I actually turned this into an opportunity. And what we said was that I'm going to do a podcast on my own. I'm going to choose a couple of my friends. I have some interesting friends. But I chose the two of you because I believe that there's a lot of synergy between the three of us. And I think that could make for some really, really good conversation. So, I'm excited about it. Now, not to put any pressure on you guys, but this is a competition. And this podcast must, by all costs, outperform Michael's podcasts. Because like all good partnerships, potentially partnerships one day can end. And we have to know. We have to really, really know is Michael Greenfield going to outperform or am I going to outperform? And we're going to hold this over each other's heads for a long time. We're very competitive. I know you guys are very competitive. We're all very competitive. All in good fun. Yes, we're going to touch on that a little bit today. But I'm not going to lie. Not having you here, Michael, certainly feels doesn't feel the same. Feels a little bit empty, but I think we're going to survive. So, Michael, good luck. Do your thing. I wish you a lot of luck. I have a sneaky suspicion who you're going to bring on to your podcast. And I think it's going to do okay. I think it's going to do well. But nobody competes with the two guests that I have today. And I'm very excited about it. I want to remind everybody that this podcast is sponsored by Prime Source. Want to thank all the partners. All right, so our guest today is Al Tenenbaum, aka Elchanan Tenenbaum. I know some people call you Al, some people call you Elchanan. I call you Al. I don't even like the name Elchanan. I don't think it suits you. I think you're an Al kind of guy. And we also have Mayor {slash} Myer. He spells it in a very funky way. I believe you spell it m a i e r. And Mayor, I'm not going to lie. I actually think that that spelling does suit you. Because you're a very unique person. I think I'm very honored that I get to be your friend and I get to spend time with you and I got to know you over the years. And you are someone that has a very unique style. And you're like an undercover secret that not a lot of people know about. You don't let too many people in. You don't let a a big crowd around you. But those that get to really be a part of your realm, I think we've come to appreciate what you bring to the table. Not to mention your unbelievable fancy suit that you're wearing here today. Okay, this was certainly a little bit overdressed for the occasion. But I'm not surprised. And And you make anything look good. So, kudos to you. And it's I may also mention a little plug for Finos. Finos custom designer, right? I'm a big fan. I try to get my suits from him as well. So, I thought we we could start by doing something a little interesting. I know you guys are big, big, avid golf not just fans, but golf players. Hold on. Wait, before that. Mentioned his suit. Last year, I believe to the day, in shul, there was a raffle or bidding to support the show. Ah, yes, I remember. Which was to be taken with Mayor to the suit place to get a suit. I paid my bill. I don't see a matching suit. We're supposed to get an eccentric matching suit. Where is that matching suit? happen. It didn't happen, but I do remember that. I wanted Yeah, I wanted to All three of us have a suit. Yeah. We for the podcast. Yeah, missed opportunity, for sure. And we should still do it. It's not too late. I think the three of us should get like, you know, matching suits. Yeah, I know we will. If we win this as And we should also walk into shul at the same time. Like the same time we walk into shul. very early. shul. You're going to have to come early. Yeah, exactly. Al, you can't run late, you know. You got to make sure that you're there on time. So, Mayor, let me ask you something. You know, a lot of people that we know very, very secretive about what they do for work. Ooh. Um some more than others. Some are very extreme. But some You're generally more of a private person, but you know, I I don't know a whole lot about what you do. I do know that you have an ABA therapy company. I think I know approximately what that means. What What exactly does the company that you own, what does this company do? ABA stands for Applied Behavior Analysis, which is a type of therapy that is approved by insurance to work with kids specifically diagnosed with autism. And unlike, let's say, physical therapy or occupational therapy or speech therapy, which some of those kids may also get, those are typically 2, 3 hours a week. ABA can be up to 40 hours a week. And they work with something called board-certified behavior analysts who creates treatment plans. We submit those treatment plans to insurance to get approvals. Um and then they oversee a behavior technician that works with the kid one-on-one. And so, we service we have a clinic in Bloomfield, New Jersey, and we service kids in daycares or at home, after school, things like that. So, we are currently providing services throughout the state of New Jersey, mostly in the northeast, and then also in the Dallas, Texas area. Oh, wow. Very cool. Interesting. You explained it very well, by the way. I feel like you really gave like a nice 60-second overview that gives the framework of what the company you own does. How did you get into this? How did you find this to be a viable business for you? And how did you get started? So, I had a son, my second son, who at the time was 2 and 1/2, developed an infection overnight, went into septic shock. He's I'm very blessed that he's still alive. We had nine surgeries. We were in and out of the hospital for many, many months. And while I would walk the floors, there was a lot of stuff about autism. I knew people that were in the field, but I started thinking it just put up, you know, idea in my mind like maybe I should do something with kids. It seems like it's a little easier. You don't need like a nursing home. You don't need real estate, per se. I started researching that. I went to a conference. And um sort of like got it started without knowing enough. And I was very blessed to find phenomenal staff. Very blessed. They're still with us. I have two awesome clinical leaders. They're like family. And they've really helped us to grow. And we've grown tremendously. We have a lot of kids that we work with now. And we've done this in 4 years, and we're hoping to keep growing. Wow. So, you learned a lot of what you're doing today on the fly. I I when I first started, I would think like why doesn't everyone just start their own business, which I think a lot of people think they can start because you technically don't need a lot of money. You don't need a real estate. But now that we've been around for 4 years, I laugh at myself because had I known everything I needed I I know now, I never would have started. It would have hindered me from starting. And we've had a lot of breaks along the way, for sure. Like we started in COVID. I think that helped us a lot because a lot of companies were not providing services. So, kids were looking for services because their agency that they were working with wasn't providing services. Um there are a lot of things that happened that we were we had a lot of mazel, a lot of luck, a lot of good fortune. And we have a great team. I think you're only as good as your team. I also did a lot of research before I started. So, all that time that I spent going to conferences or whatever and researching. And I also I I learned I taught myself a lot. A lot of people outsource a lot of things. And we don't outsource anything. So, um you know, that saves you money. Um but it takes time to figure out. Wow. I have a phenomenal clinical team. We've had many families who specifically wanted to speak to me to let us know their kid was nonverbal, and now they're speaking full sentences, and they're no longer in the program. They've graduated, which is really nice. Wow. So, there's a personal side to this for you as well. You know, I I would provide a great service no matter what you're doing, you know. Obviously helping kids who can't speak be able to speak. That's gratifying. Unbelievable. That's amazing. You know, I tell our sales reps here all the time, you know, don't think of what you're doing as just any job and you're just doing a sale and, you know, you're consulting and you're helping people save money. Think about by the fact that a facility has more money to spend now. Where that money, well, we hope is being used, which is on the residents, on the people that live in this facility. It makes a difference. You know, when you help them get a better distributor that has better quality food, they have better menus, makes a difference in people's lives. Think about your grandparents, our grandparents, you know, that are in nursing homes sometimes. And they're eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner there. And if you can make it a little bit better for them, you're really impacting people's lives. You are impacting children's lives. This is the most precious things that we have in our lives. This is amazing. So, you get to make money, but you also get to really see transformations in a lot of these children. When I started, I was very involved with every single thing to the point where I even was involved with some of the early families, right? Like we got someone to apply. You know, now thankfully we have a lot of people applying every day, which is beautiful. And we're very blessed. But early on, I still remember like the first client that called after this BCBA left. And it was not a good case, meaning they were looking for very few hours. They didn't have great insurance, but you'll do anything at the time to make it work. But what stands out is there was this one family who had this kid and then some parents are just special parents. Like they'll do anything for their kid and that was this family and their kid really grew quite a bit and they wanted to meet me in person. I don't always go into my office. So they wanted to meet me and they brought flowers and a letter and a whole special thing. It was really, really nice. Um that's when it really hit home that like we're making a difference. You know, I don't know that we help every kid to the level that we helped that kid. You know, also you have staff. Some people are better and work harder than others. There's only so much you can do. You know, sometimes you hire people that aren't the greatest. Sometimes you hire the people that are the greatest. Um and sometimes they're paired with that kid. Just recently we have we have a party for um you know, all our kids on a Sunday. We rent a park and all that and there was a family that came over to thank me. Um you know, they would write any they would do anything. So you know, we don't ever ask people to write reviews, but I asked them to write a review. They wrote a beautiful Google review um about how much we've done for their kid. It's just the helping kids is nice, too. That's very special. Very nice. Al, we covered Mayor and uh you know, his his work life, you know, and what he does and I one could actually argue that your work life is more of a hidden secret actually than because I I believe that there's a possibility that everything going on in your work life is all a front. Uh And that you have to have a story. You know, because nobody is able There's one person who can argue who can say otherwise, it's me. Both of you. You both share this. I'm with Al when he's at work. All right. No, it's real. Okay. So Al, tell tell us a little bit about he's got the big James Street project. Oh, he he's stalking you now. Oh, I can he's there with You got to talk lower. No, what do you mean? Come on. Talking about channel some pipes. All right. So Al, let's By the What do I do? Yeah, but it's important that we know this. Very different. I'm the opposite of Mayor. Mayor is uh was a trailblazer who started and on his own and and really just took that that lead. I'm the opposite. I'm a I'm part of a second generation business which I was lucky enough to be invited by my father-in-law and my uncle-in-law to join their business 15-plus years ago. Uh we do mechanical contracting which is essentially air conditioning and heating. Do large-scale commercial projects. But really what we do is we manage risk and manage people. Um that's really our business. What does that mean manage risk and manage people? When I hear HVAC heating and cooling, I'm thinking the machines that you and then you said manage risk and manage people. Yes. Yes. Of course we do that. Um but essentially it's providing a product in the current environment uh is very complex, I would say with OSHA which is safety regulations, just understanding how to build a proper system that functions, that's per code, that is efficient uh that has longevity, that will be serviceable. All those things is what we do. What's your role in the company? So we're a family business that manages everything very hands-on. So basically every decision and every aspect of how the company functions is basically a podcast discussion of what the steps should be, how we should implement them. And that's basically what we do. My father-in-law, my uncle-in-law and I, my brother-in-law and and a cousin basically round table discussion our plan of action for how we should function as a company. We have, you know, 200 employees and how they should work. Obviously there's the nitty-gritty of actually bending metal and installing metal and welding metal and installing equipment, wires. It's a complex organism of how the business works. But ultimately it comes down to making proper decisions proper foresight which is what every business is. Obviously the core of every business is making sure that you have enough work to feed your people, feed the employees that you have, feed their families, make sure that the money is there for their payroll. Ultimately we're simple contractors. We're not doing anything that's rocket science. We're essentially creating comfortable systems for people to live in. Beautiful. So your father-in-law started this business? Father-in-law and uncle-in-law started the business almost 40 years ago. Wow. And they So they bootstrapped it and you know Absolutely. They're Russian immigrants and they came here. My father-in-law is an aeronautical engineer. He came here from Russia uh as a essentially a Jewish refugee. And when he came here, he obviously was trained as an aeronautical engineer which is, you know, airplanes, things like that. He interviewed with Boeing and other airplane companies and the CIA basically said we can't have Russians involved Exactly. The '80s. in the early '80s. And so he was he's like, "Okay, I'll try air conditioning. It's a little bit kind of below my pay grade, but he kind of worked for a few companies and he's like, "Listen, like Mayor, I can do this. It was the Mayor he was the and he's like, "Listen, let's we'll figure it out." His brother was very handy started from the ground up. And the two of them literally buying and then installing machines for people and taking any job. of, you know, 40 years is a very long time and to have and I I think it's their wish and their goal to have this company be something that they can pass down for generations and So they have no intention of ever selling? It's not you know, I think that Are they the currently the sole owners, the two brothers? Yes. Yes. It's the most unique It's the most I'm not going to go into like the details of it, but it's a very unique, loving um uh structure that it would never work anywhere else. It's based solely on trust for all the people that are involved. And it's based on love and trust and it works and it's worked for 40 years and it's worked for the 15 years that I've been part of it. And it's the goal to nurture and foster that. I'm not saying that it works for everyone. I think it takes unique personalities to work properly. You better believe it does. It does. It sounds to me You know, go very, very, very wrong. Uh but I know your father-in-law a little bit. Like I don't know him personally. He's uh he's But I know of him. I know about him and he's a great fellow and and I can tell he's just wired differently. Yeah. And it's not surprising to me that he has this arrangement, you know, with the family members that are part of the business and I'm sure everybody carries their weight and does what they can. He probably doesn't even have a lot of expectations. He just wants everybody to step up as much as they could. No, that's not true. All right. So he holds you accountable like Not at all. It's a very it's real. It's a very real business. No, I understand it's real, but There's real accountability. Let's put it this way. Not everyone's skills are necessarily um quantifiable in a 9:00 to 5:00 kind of way. So I'm totally I understand what you're saying. Not every job is reflected or quantifiable at a 9:00 to 5:00 where you're sitting. Like there's a lot of moving pieces, you know, that are behind the scenes to a company that, you know, really can make it very successful or not, but still I I I will say that, you know, it's you're you're very fortunate both all three of us. Everybody sitting here is very fortunate that we have a job and that we're able to bring home an income. I mean, you guys are really fortunate. You can also do two things that you love. You get to be involved in a company that brings you joy and you know, your personal stuff that your your golf life that you love as well. This is a lightning round. I'm going to throw 10 questions at you guys. And I'm going to ask both of you the same question. Okay? So I'm going to ask you a question. You're going to give me the first answer that comes to your head right off the top of your cuff, okay? Then I'm going to ask you the same question and then I'm going to start the second question with you and we're going to go back and forth, okay? Now obviously these questions are around golf. You guys are very good representatives of the game of golf. You've mastered the craft, I want to say, of golf as far as an amateur can go. Master is a difficult word. You didn't master the game of golf? Golf is like life. You can't master it. No, you can always room for improvement. Always. That's the allure. Cuz you keep chasing something. You could be have the number one podcast in the world. You're still trying to get more subscribers, more listeners, right? Yeah, of course. So It's never enough. Never enough. Okay. So I'm going to start. I'm going to ask some questions. This is just to give a little flavor to the listeners about you and about, you know, your golf experiences, okay? Um base the questions. Don't overthink it. Don't, you know, try to give the perfect answer. Just you How did you come up with these questions? Came up with them myself. I I sat by my computer and I just thought of questions I would want to know that I was curious about and I put it together. Okay. Okay. Can I just say Can I just say one thing? Yeah, sure. Usually we sit at Kiddush together, right? I know she has one rule. One rule only. No golf. And no talking about We can talk about anything except for golf. Okay. So Al, you ready? I'm going to start with you, Al, then I'm going to ask you the same question, Mayor. And then I'm going to turn question two to you and then we're going to go back and forth. All right. What's the nicest golf course that you ever played in? And why? Maidstone. Maidstone. It's called Maidstone. What's so nice about it? It's on a piece of land that you could never buy now. It's in East Hampton. It's on the ocean which is on the I guess that would be the south side of the south side of the tip of Long Island all the way out there in East Hampton. Like a half-acre plot of land there goes for $80 million and this is 300 acres. Wow. Did you play there once? Played there one time. One time. Okay, nice. All right, Mayor, what was the nicest golf course you ever played in? It's a great question. So I'm actually going to say something that's interesting that Al probably knows the answer to, but we just played a course called Atlantic which is pretty close to Maidstone. It's not a great piece of property in the sense that it's not on the water. Doesn't have the views, but the course was in phenomenal shape. There wasn't a blade of grass out of place. There wasn't a weed you could see. It was a beautiful It's not rated anywhere near some of the other courses we've played, but I loved it. Wow. I wish you'd talk about me that way. You know, about someone else amazing like you. The The love that you have for the course is unbelievable. All right. So, Mayor, what was the best score that you ever had at any course at any time in throughout your entire playing career? What was your best score? 70. 70? So, that's that's two below par. mean you're under par. Some courses are 68, 69. Typically it's 72, sometimes it's 71. Two under par. Okay. Al, what was your best score that you ever did at any course? 64, which is seven under. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. But Yeah, it wasn't my best round of golf, but that's my Best final score after Okay. I'm sure there's a lot of people who are out there like, "Wow, that's pretty impressive." It's good. I Have you ever done that multiple times or Yes. Oh, so you But that was the lowest you've ever got. him with Al on one of them. Oh, you were there. So, you can back this up. And then on Sunday I was seven under through 16 holes. Oh, so you ended up higher than 70. went bogey, par, and then shot six under. It was a shame. Okay. Uh Al, who's the most important person that you've ever played golf with? Who's the most important person you've ever played with? It's a tough question. There are two answers. One will be my son, Sammy. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not Let me rephrase this question. Not your most sentimentally important person, you They're both sentimental. Important person like celebrity-wise. Like somebody that the masses know who they are. Who's the most important person you've ever played with? You mean like who's the most famous person? Let me use the word famous. Nobody? Nobody famous? I don't I mean Is world fame or is it could say that. I would say I've played with Lawrence Taylor. Oh, okay. Okay. Why are you holding that one back? A regular at Trump That's pretty good. Taylor, uh Was he any good? He's an excellent golfer. Yeah. He's pretty famous. A lot of people love him for like what he did for the Giants, I guess. Yeah, for sure. Is he still active? Does he still do anything like TV of golf. Just plays golf now? Al, is he still a regular at Trump Rock? No, because that guy left. But he's around. He's definitely around this area cuz he'll probably do like signings and stuff or whatever. He's around. Still looks big and strong and All right. Mayor, who's the most important person other than Al that you played with? Yeah, so I don't know if I played with anyone that important. I played with John Flaherty who does the Yankee game. I played with Lawrence Taylor. John Flaherty. These are very famous people. When you meet famous they're regular people. I understand they're regular people. I'm not saying they're gods, but it's a very famous person. So, how did that come to be? How did you hook up with him? So, we used to be members at Rockland Country Club and John is a member there and his friend had a match against my friend, so we both played against each other. John was a nice guy. He was doing a Yankee game that night. You kidding me? So, that night he was commentating the Yankee game? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And so, did you guys talk? really nice guy. I enjoyed it immensely. He played very well that day, too. He beat me. Cell number? I think I do, yeah. It's So, you know who I met? So, um I played with um Uh who's the head writer of SNL? Now? Colin Jost. Colin Jost. So, Colin Jost. I'll tell you a funny story. So, we're I'm playing with Colin Jost and fine, we play. A week or two later, we play again. And we finish playing and I we go in I change, he changes, and all of a sudden he like is standing by the carts and he's rocking like a like a baby carriage. And he goes, "Al, come meet my son, Cosmo." I'm like, "What?" He goes, "Oh, yeah. He's one week old. We just had the baby." I'm like, "Oh." And then he introduced me to his wife. And she was standing right there? Sitting right there. And so, I go home and I'm like, "Listen." I tell my wife, I'm like, "Listen, I just met, you know, Scarlett and Colin Jost. They had a baby. You can't say a word to anyone." Oh, this was under this is the baby was a week old. And my wife goes So, the public didn't even know about this. "It can't be. It's nowhere on the internet." I'm like, "Listen, this is a private place. You can't tell any of your friends until it becomes, you know, public knowledge." And And like she almost didn't believe me. And then a month or two later, it comes out and I I told her. I said, "Mark my words, this is the baby's name. I met the baby. I met" And he he is the nicest, most down-to-earth guy in the world. She is, too. I mean, she's a little probably, you know, with being famous like that. She's a lot more famous than he is. She's worldwide known. She's probably top three most, you know, highest-grossing female actresses around, but also very normal. What was your reaction? Like when you were standing there I'm not and Colin Jost introduced you to his baby and then to his wife, I was My reaction was I'm so excited to tell this to my wife cuz I know she'll enjoy it. I'm enjoying this. So many people would enjoy hearing this. And you know what? He was there and there were probably 50 people that saw them and it didn't get out at all until they publicly went out with it. So, it just shows You were golfing with Colin Jost? Yeah. And at a place where we play We have mutual friends that set the game up together. Wait a second. So, when I asked you who's the most important person you golfed Can't say important. He's very So, what did you guys talk about? Did you talk about anything? I mean, I I asked him about what it's like to be a head writer of SNL and like how much preparation it is. He you just really He told me hysterical stories that you know, how he pranks you know, Michael Che who's on on on it with him. Some crazy stories. So, did you golf together with him? Yeah. So, he saw you golf He saw you swing and saw you play? Yeah, we played together. Did he Did he Was he impressed? Did he comment? Nobody Nobody cares. Oh, they don't care. The thing is you have a handicap. So, everybody sort of knows what your level is. You can't be a 10 handicap, which is okay, and then all of a sudden shoot par. Right. Not That means you're cheating. Right. So, you know in advance of how good someone is. So, anybody can play with anybody. It doesn't really matter because you just apply the right handicap. you can compete with anybody cuz you're not playing against each other. Right. Wow. Yeah. I I'm still blown away by this Scarlett Johansson thing. This is amazing. I don't think I've ever met a real celebrity. My sister has a knack for meeting celebrities and she has the pictures to prove it. Whenever she meets someone, she always takes a picture. Taylor Swift, Britney Spears. She was in an elevator with Will Ferrell, with with Paula Abdul. Like she has like a like a Somehow she bumps into them all over the place. But this is a real real celebrity. You know, we also had a round with Lissie Schwartz. Oh, stop it. One day that'll be our biggest celebrity. I mean, someone's going to watch this podcast in 10 years from now. Well, we'll see. We'll look back What am I missing? He's saying in 10 years you'll look back and say, "Ron, you had a podcast with Lissie Schwartz." There's no question that Scarlett Johansson is the real deal. This is like Did you Did you play golf with That was better than the whole golf day. Demi Moore. Yeah? Very. She was nice, also? Very nice. Do you have cell numbers? Do you have Colin's cell number? Did you even ask for it? No. Ah, no. Colin's number? No, you got to play cool. Come on. Interesting. Okay. All right. I'm glad I asked that question, by the way. Otherwise, I don't know if I would have heard the story. That's See, if you would have at least let us speak about golf, you would have heard this story. Let me finish the questions. All right. Question four. Mayor, what was the most holes you played of golf in one day? 72. Wow. Yeah. Is that even possible? Yes. So, we played 18 18 holes in one round. We played four different rounds. Al and I did this, of course. Four different rounds, four different courses on the same day in North Carolina. We took a trip and we teed off about 7:35 and we played the first round in about 2 hours and 45 minutes and we played the next round in about 3 hours, then the next one in 2 hours, and then about 3 hours. Nice 14-hour day, 72 holes. And then you died. No, then we were back out for 54 holes the next day. Oh, yeah. We played about 160-something holes in 3 days. And we flew down Sunday, played two rounds, played four rounds Monday, three rounds Tuesday, and flew back Tuesday night. You kidding me. This is July July Hold on. This is July This is July 4th weekend in North Carolina. It was 95° and 90% humidity. The one thing that was unexpected was our hands were just throbbing because the humidity, I guess, just was made holding the club and swinging the club like impossible. You know, a big part of me is very envious of you guys. You should be. Very jealous because I don't know if I have a passion for any as much as you have the devotion, the dedication that you have to this sport. To play that kind of volume straight through for So, you went on a binge. You went on a three-day binge. We were We're very proud of this 72 we did. We're playing the other day with a guy and he goes we do this thing called the summer solstice where I guess somewhere around June 21st or whenever it is where it's the longest day of summer. He goes, "Oh, yeah. We play from sunup to sundown." He had 201 holes in one day, which is comes out to 18 It was like 11 rounds? No, 11 rounds? 11 rounds? 11 rounds? Is it 11 or 11 rounds? That's insane. Can you even physically like swing that many times without so sore that you can't lift the club? They were right. We play legitimate golf and we could have played nine more holes that day. Yeah. We didn't play at our own course where people let us play through. We played four different courses, which is nearly impossible. You drove from course to course to course. And we didn't have the intention to do this. As we finished one, we're like, "All right. Let's do another one." The higher the Let's keep going. Absolutely. We almost played nine more holes. We had a little more time. Mad respect. Wow, unbelievable. It was a lot of fun. By the way, when I made this question, I would like think to myself, "What would the answer be?" I was thinking I'd probably like, I don't know, 36 holes, 52, 72, something like that. The next 100 guys you have you're asking them how many holes they played, the max you'll get is 36. 36, right? That would be a lot. You played twice. the highlight It was It's the best golf trip ever. It was You guys have a lot of stamina. A lot of endurance. It's amazing. Okay. Cool. All right. Next question. Crazy thing was I shot 81 all four rounds. Like The same score? Same score. Different courses. Same score. It's the weirdest thing. What did you What did you shoot that day? I don't know. The best one, you don't remember? You remember every single score that you get every game that you play? No, no. But when you play a course for the one time, let's say you talked about Maidstone, I I almost remember every shot I had or every hole, same with Atlantic or the courses I played once that I really enjoyed or I took a trip. You know, trips are special because when we do trips, it's like all golf. Like most people do a trip and then they're doing darts or fishing, whatever. It's like God, it's got to be golf all day. Wow. only way it's worth it. Not only that, other because we keep kosher, a lot of people, you know, their trips revolve around food. Like where we going? Where can we be food? Mayor has shakes and that's all he eats and maybe like a couple bars and I'm just eating bars and cereal and granola, maybe maybe we'll have like some pastrami, but there's barely any food. We're just running on fumes. So you're traveling all over the country throughout the year playing at different courses. year. One or two trips a year. What do What do you typically do? I'll bring some cold cuts or we'll just have bars, beef jerky and bars and and that's it. All right, next question is Al, this is for you. Okay, what's your preferred brand in golf? What's your preferred go-to brand? What's your favorite brand? Apparel or club or what? Apparel, yeah. That's like asking to teach the Torah on one leg. Is it really? Is that There's so many brands in in in golf? Well, if there's so much depth It's like going to Fino and there's different materials. You're not going to only get Style Biella. There's other ones, right? I already regret this question. Let's forget it. This sounds too complicated. Your golf you think is like a sport, it's almost a religion. And so you're asking questions that have lots of layers. Go on, if I can. Go ahead. Lend belts. Lend belts is the answer. What is Lend belts? Anybody can look it up, Lend belts. Oh God. Lend belts? Yes. And they make everything, they make belts? Just belts? Belts, wallets, Do the professionals on tour wear Lend belts? Very few. What's so good about Lend belts? What what Just beautiful. Okay, most expensive golf equipment or gear that you own. It could be a club, it could be a pair of shoes, whatever it is. And what's the price? Lend belts, $14.95. That's what one belt costs? That's like a small mortgage. Yes, it's expensive. Wow. Yes. And it's the brand No, no, no, no. To be honest, I mean, the material is only so much money. that we've played with anyone ever wear a person. Two guys. We both have a bunch, but uh We got them when they were when they were cheaper. That's the most expensive thing that you own? No, I have something that's much more. Okay. Oh, she's like companies right now listening to the podcast going, "Oh my gosh, they're the two guys that bought our belts?" Exactly. You built their business for them. Okay, uh where is your bucket list golf destination that you haven't gone to yet that you just you have to get there before before you die? There's three There's two, three answers. Okay. So, the one that's very attainable that hopefully will happen within the next year is Shinnecock. What? You want to say that again? It's called Shinnecock Golf Club. Where is it? It's in South Shinnecock Hills. It's called Shinnecock Hills. It's in Southampton. It's where they host the US Open. Really? Yeah, it's it's a legendary place. It's supposed to be I've never been there. going there? Tell me. It's very difficult to get an invite. So it's difficult to get in. So there are people that have memberships there and they have to invite Like Bloomberg is a member there. It's very elite. place, super elite. So all the high-end people have Like I wouldn't say that there's Is it expensive? Exclusive, they host like the US Open for golf every six to 10 years and that generates like I don't know what it is, 10 bucks, eight eight million dollars. you gone to watch the No, it's very difficult to get there. To go watch a tournament, to buy a ticket? No, no, no, that's easy. But to get out there, there's one road in, one road out and it's very difficult. Is it going to happen now? Are you going to Oh, absolutely, 100%. Always try to bring Mayor. Uh so far it's worked out, but But that's your bucket list. No, that's 1A and then one is Augusta National. Which is where they play the Masters. Nice. In Augusta, Georgia. I didn't know Augusta's in Georgia. I wasn't aware about it. It's in Georgia. Is that hard to get into or is there something you're not Yes. It's also hard to get there. That's the hardest. The hardest? The hardest. Wow. What's your plan? How are you going to do it? I have ways. Okay, okay. Mayor, what's your It hasn't worked yet. The bucket list is the same place as him or do you have your own So, let me just give a little background to There's There are private courses where people are members and then in order for you to join, you either got to become a member which may be impossible, it may be hundreds of years a wait list or you need to be somebody. We have a friend, a guy that we know that is a member at our club, which is Manhattan Woods, who's very wealthy and he wanted to join Augusta. He's worth it well into the billions and he was turned down. So it's not a money thing because he's only a great golfer or whatever it is, but there when you ask the question, I sort of understood it as what's a place that we can go. There are many destination places that are public that are beautiful. Some of the top courses in the world are public. You just need to be able to get a tee time and you pay three, four hundred dollars or whatever it costs, but there are private places like Shinnecock or Augusta and there it's not about money, it's about who you if you know somebody. YSV, it's like big YSV. Who do you know? Who's on the board? It's YSV, it's like getting into the Pentagon. Imagine YSV. Right now there's a thousand kids in YSV, imagine that you had a YSV, every class had 10 kids and you had the size of the community that we're in trying to get into YSV with 10 kids per class. It'd be very difficult. What type of class would that be? maybe two kids per class. Wow, interesting. Okay. All right, so then you need to know a member and you need the member to have you take him. Now you have to realize that every guy that this member knows that plays golf wants him to take him there. It's annoying. He's like, "Stop asking me. I got the next hundred guys already asking me." Then this the clubs make rules. Like Shinnecock has a rule that you can only bring six guests a month. That means a typical round of golf is with four people, so the host and three guests and you can do it twice a month in the summer because they don't want all these guests there. The members want to play themselves. I don't want guests in my club all day. But it's difficult to get on. It's not about money, it's about who you know. I hope you take a lot of pictures when you finally get there. But the number one course in the world is actually in New Jersey. It's called Pine Valley. What makes it the number one course in the world? We have never played it. Well, how does it get ranked? What's it predicated on? There the land is just the way that's very private. Is it the most expensive? No, no, none of these have to do So it's also the most coveted? It's not on the ocean like Shinnecock's not on the ocean. Shinnecock is right next to water and it's you can't see any water. There are other two other courses right next to it that are on the water, which is more beautiful, um but it's something about it is supposedly unbelievable. Wow. Um the rolling land. You want rolling land, not flat. You don't want mountainous, you want Right, because you do a lot of walking, so you want it to be easy on the legs. Okay. What is your biggest pet peeve about other golf players? This is a great question. pet peeve, like what annoys you? What irks you when you're golfing with someone or even if you're not golfing with them, but things that people do that really annoys you. I'll go first. I'm going to go first. No, no, you only get to pick one. One big Nothing bothers you, Al? It's true. I try not to let anything bother me. But if we're having We're having that kind of day, what would you Playing slowly. But that's like not proper etiquette to play slowly. Isn't that like I'm not a golfer and I know that it's not proper to hold up the Yeah, but does the guy driving 50 in the left lane know he's going slow or he just thinks it's like that's normal? So you're saying they're delusional about it? Like they don't even realize. Now, would you say something to someone that you know, when you see that happening? It depends. Because you know me, I don't have it in me not to say something. When I see somebody doing something that irks me and this is a big problem I have and it gets me into a lot of trouble, but I have to say something. I feel like it's my duty to say something. If I don't say something, who will say something and then they'll never know. I'm almost doing the person a favor by saying something. You don't do the same thing? No. So you just keep it quiet and you suffer? No, and that'll be the last time I play with them. Oh, so you're saying slow people that play with you. Oh, yes. I thought you were talking about people that in front of you are playing slowly. Then I'll whistle. Then you would say something. Oh, yeah, yeah. But let them know that I'm watching and you're out of line. Pick it up. Oh, but guys that play with you and you're not going to play with them again. I'll try to gently, you know, prod people along. Like, you know, all right, we got to pick up here and keep moving. How people are playing No, no, no, no. They want to make sure they're hitting their best shot and Some people are slow, some people are fast. Being good or bad has nothing to do with it. Okay. You could be the worst player in the world and play fast and you could be the best player and play slow. Okay, yeah. What's your biggest pet peeve? And Mayor, you got to stick to one, you know, It's one pet peeve, really. And many people have that do this, but it's pretty much making noise and moving while one is about to hit. It's something I need to work on and get better at. But I feel like that's something that's very commonly understood. It's when a player is hitting, it's not just in golf, in any sport. When a tennis player is serving, Right. right? You you can't make noise at that moment. Like that's very normal. There's all there's all these stories about Tiger Woods when he was growing up and his father would drop keys or make noises in his backswing to try to strengthen his mental game, which I'm sure helped him. There are videos of him stopping his back, you know, in middle of his swing before hitting balls and the announcer saying like, "How could he possibly do that?" or whatever. But yeah, that kind of thing bothers me, but usually what I believe happens is the people that do it don't are not bothered by that. So they don't see peripherally. Like I notice a lot of movement or sound. Is that No. Did I move while you're hitting? No, no. No, okay. Mayor, you're talking about like the person that's playing with you. Caddies that carry your clubs. Once in a while you'll play with, you know, a random caddy at another course and the guy will just start walking while you're hitting and I see it. And what happens is I take my mind sort of wanders to him, which it shouldn't. It should stick with my plan of what I'm trying to do when I hit the ball and all of a sudden I'm thinking about that and I hit a bad shot and and it just ruins my whole round. Mayor, I got to tell you, you're triggering something for me right now. I'm sure I am. You really are triggering something for me right now because I have a story with you. And so, for those that don't know, you're a master ba'al koreh. Okay, so for those non-Hebrew speaking folks, a ba'al koreh is somebody who reads the Torah every single week in a synagogue. You know, you have to have a professional that does it because the words and the tune that it goes in is not just plainly written and it has to be done by someone who's practiced and knows what they're doing and you're one of those guys. And I have to say, you do a phenomenal job. I think our synagogue particularly is very fortunate that we have someone that knows how to do it well because a lot of synagogues have people that aren't that great and it's hard to listen to sometimes but you're very easy to listen to. And we've had people who've come to our shul and have spent shabbos by us and heard you and said the same thing. Like we get always good feedback from people saying, "You're a ba'al koreh who knows what he's doing." He's So, we're very fortunate. But, and I want to dial this back like, I don't know, 3 4 years ago, 4 5 years ago. I think today, Mayer, you're a different person in a lot of ways than you used to be. But, I remember a story that happened where I was just kind of minding my own business and you were laining, you were doing your thing. Correct. And I fidgeted the wrong way or I did something and you stopped. You stopped dead in your tracks and you gave me a look and everybody stopped with you because as soon as the ba'al koreh stops, the whole shul is like, "What's going on? What's happening?" And it became a scene, a very dramatic scene unfolded right in front of But, you stopped and you looked at me. It was for not a long time, it was for a few seconds but that's all it took. When that happened, it was a shocking moment. And it's a perfect Because it bothered you because somebody made a movement while you were performing your your art. You were doing your art and somebody somebody interfered with that and when you're saying this about golf, that's your pet peeve, it makes perfect sense. Like, it's very in line. I have to concentrate in both I've grown. I'm a much stronger. I don't have to prepare to the same extent and I don't have to concentrate as much. So, things moving around making noises doesn't bother you as much. But, in golf it's very much like that. I need to be able to focus on what I'm trying to do and if whatever reason something takes me away from that ability to focus, I lose it. And it doesn't always get me. Sometimes I don't notice it. You know, sometimes I will say like, "Hey, did I get you?" Meaning like, "Did he do something I I didn't notice?" But, there are certain people that have no idea what's going on. I I literally They're almost obnoxious about it. That's not nice. What is a guy in a four-lane highway doing on the left lane going 55? That's my pet peeve. It's very selfish. It's very self-centered. It's like the world is your is your ashtray. It's like, "I'm going to drive in the left lane at my own, you know, pace, my own speed and forget about the people that are behind me." It's like that's very selfish. But, you would not have done this 6 months ago. If I would did that same motion whatever I did 4 5 years ago, you would not have done that today. Now, I'm curious what By the way, big change, you're you're one of the more well-tempered people that I know today. It's hard to get a rise out of you. You don't really get upset. But, back in the day, you weren't, you know, that's awesome, not you weren't getting upset by it but you were very passive-aggressive about it. Today, you're in control. Like, you're a different person. I'm curious, in life, like what was that trigger for you? What was that point What happened? Maybe it wasn't one particular thing that happened, a series of events. What was it that changed that brought you to this calm place, this confident place that you're in today, that you're exuding this, you know, you have it all together? And at one point it wasn't like that. You were rigid, you were tough. You had to walk on eggshells around you almost. You know, so what what was it? Walk us through that. It was a definitely a mix of a few things. Uh first of all, I want to say that I'm not like that in golf. I wish I had that capability in golf. Everyone who plays golf with me sort of feels that way, the way you're describing the on egg walking on eggshells kind of thing. It's uh if I can conquer that, you know, so I don't have all the answers. He doesn't play golf. I just want you to know that. He's not perfect. No, no, he he's retired. Oh, he's retired. He has he's quit he has not he's quit golf. He's saying Mayer has quit golf. He doesn't play golf. He only plays pickleball now. This is permanent. That's how you know the love is real. He's fighting with golf right now. He's having an argument. But, he'll he'll go right back. We're not worried. But, you were saying I I always threaten to to quit golf and I threaten he quits. I I've quit. I quit, I'm retired. I'm going to tell Al Al doesn't even know this. So, I quit golf like a week ago cuz I had a rough round and I'm like, "Why am I doing this to myself?" It's not cuz he had a rough round. But, that day that I quit, I booked a lesson for a few weeks later. I was just going to like I figured I'll take off of Jason. Okay. Um but, he wasn't available. He asked me about you, you know. He wasn't available. You could you could read my message with him. Um but, so I I always threaten to quit golf because as you know and as you've pointed out, I like to do things well or at least to the best of my ability. I've gotten really good at golf. I've gotten a lot better but I'm just not at the level that I want to be at and it kills me. So, similar to the way I used to lane and the way you described that that instance where I laser focused I lasered at you and I took a break and whatever it was, I don't have the I haven't conquered that mental aspect of golf. But, to answer your question, what changed? I'd say a couple things, you know, I wasn't at the place I wanted to be in business and I think that really changed my mindset. You know, it really changed the way I feel about things. I think the confidence is there but I need to still get better at golf with that. You know, it's very true. People don't give enough credence to how they look externally which makes them feel internally. I have a friend um he's been overweight his whole life. His whole life. And I know how deeply it bothers him. When he shares that with me, we're very close, he tells me about it. But, it goes even further than what he actually vocalizes to me. I know how it And all he does is he builds his entire day around how he's going to lose weight because to him that's the most important thing. And outside looking in, he has a lot of amazing things. He's a really quality person. He has a lot of good going for him. But, this is one area that he really struggles with and it really hurts your confidence. It really does. And that's why when people are overweight, they'll go through drastic measures to try and lose weight. Like, they'll go through surgery. I mean, they'll cut themselves open in order to And And it's not just, you know, somebody being shallow. You know, it's a real thing. We as humans, we really do internalize how we look externally. It's important to us and I can respect that. Now, you did Even even when you're successful financially, nobody I mean, very few people go and show their bank statements or how much they're making. It's an internal feeling. Yeah. At the end of the day, your feeling of success, same with laining like nobody's judging. Nobody cared if I made a mistake or if I lained at a certain speed. Nobody said anything. It's my own internal value, you know, evaluation of what I did. Same with everything in life. Like, I don't know, for me some people you know, have social media and they're all about like what others think. For me, it's about what I think. I can't trick myself. I know if I'm doing well as a husband or as a father or in business or in golf. I don't care if somebody says good shot or not. I know if it was a good shot. It's all I care about is what I think. It sounds like you really hold yourself accountable. Yes. It's a blessing and a curse. And you're sure they don't correct you? Like, never happens? No, nobody would dare, Al. Nobody would dare. There's one guy who likes trash-talking. I would like to think I don't make many mistakes. The last one was a achicha. Um could be. Usually when I make a mistake, I underline it so I know for the next year. On this you're again you're just I'm sorry that we're spiraling here. I didn't even get to question number 10 yet but um you mentioned something that really hit home with me a little bit. And I'm sorry, I'm getting a little personal right now. I I apologize in advance but um I started seeing a therapist like, I don't know, 3 4 months ago. And it's not just a therapist, it's like a rabbi therapist. So, it's like coming from a spiritual place but also from a from a real, you know, therapy place as well, like a licensed therapist as well. And one of the things that I've been learning is about giving yourself a pass, not being so harsh on yourself, not being a critic and you know, not feeling like you're not good enough and you can do better and always trying to chase something more. Sometimes it's okay to say, "You know what? I actually did a great job. I'm actually putting in the effort, I'm putting in the time and I think it's very important and kind of what you what you were saying, you know, that you really do hold yourself to a high pedigree and to a very very high degree and you're, you know, anything less than reaching 100% of it to you seems like it's a failure. It's like it's all or nothing. It's black or white and there's a lot of people like that that hold themselves to a very very high regard. I can't live that way. For me, I have to accept that it's not going to be perfect and you know what? I want to actually give myself not just a pass but compliment myself that you got to 70%. You got to 75%. You know, if your kid comes home and has a test score and shows you a 82, you have two things you can do. You can either say, "82, where'd you go wrong?" You know, you can focus on that or you can say, "Wow, 82, that's a high score. That's amazing. Let me see the questions that you got right." Does that resonate with what I'm saying? Yeah, so I would never say anything to my kid if he got 82. Like, he did his best, that's great. He always try his best as best you can, that's what I think. I think I should be easier on myself but I just have never been able to figure out how. And what's interesting about golf is I've gotten better. Like, just about every year I've gotten better by playing with Al the last few years many times a week. He's a phenomenal player, way better than I am. I've gotten better. The problem is once you shoot 70, I believe I should shoot 70 every time. You know what you're capable of yourself. Once you taste it, you know, it's hard to go back, right? Once you fly first class, it's hard to go back. Once you fly private, it's hard to go back. It's hard to sit in the back in the middle seat in Spirit after you fly private, right? It's just a hard thing to do. Yeah. If you can give yourself a pass and just say, "Hey, my goal is to get there." It's just a destination thing, big deal. But, most people can't do that. I I can't do it. Yeah. By the way, not for nothing, but you know, talking about therapy here. I I I'm Al, I'm going to address this to you. Okay, therapy has been like stigmatized at least in our community. It's been stigmatized as something negative, right? If there's something wrong, then you have to go to therapy. If there's something really good, you should go to therapy in my opinion. You don't want to get too high, you don't want to get too low. When I got married, my wife pushed me to do therapy very early on in the beginning. Mhm. For building tools, prevention. You know, why wait till there's a problem and then do treatment? Why not give yourself a good chance of succeeding by getting those tools up front? And in our community, you know, therapy is like, whatever. Okay, oh, that person is problems. You see the therapist? Oh, I wonder what their problems are. Like, it's looked down upon. What a shame because therapy can be really enlightening. It can be very helpful and, you know, turn people's lives around and for for the better, you know? So, what's your take on on therapy? And specifically, I'm curious, specifically with therapy for children. Meaning Oh, I'm all at an early age and Sasha, like, what's your take on that? What do you feel about about So, I have four kids. One one son goes to therapy every single week. And I don't know what type of therapy you're referring to, but I actually have other kids that go to other types of speech or reading therapy and I consider a golf lesson therapy. Any kind of opportunity you have to get better, to have someone kind of give you input on what you're doing is therapy and I think that my wife is my therapist. I think she's very highly qualified to be my therapist for, you know, at least what I'm willing to share, which is most things. I'm a pretty simple person. No complications here. What about therapy? By the way, you're opening my eyes because I'm using the word therapy in a very specific way, but you're expanding. Right. Anything that helps you improve. Yeah, therapy has to be something that I guess provides provides calmness that you can now think rationally and that you can now learn from and then you can grow to make better decisions in the future. Right? I would say something to that effect. I think to therapize is I don't know, therapy is a is a remedy for something. I think Right. is is a But you're talking about therapy from like a mental health perspective. Absolutely. I I I happen to think that therapy searching back in one's childhood, which is where everything starts, and whether we realize it or not, it manifests itself in a lot of ways later on in your in your I happen to be a big fan of it. Here at PrimeSource in general, you know, all of us we're very we actually bring in a rabbi who comes in once a month in our company and does I don't want to call it a speech cuz that's not what it's very engaging, but it's really meant just to talk about how to be better people, how to grow personally, how to be more motivated, how to wake up and feeling better about yourself, how to not be your harshest critic. Like, things like that, those are topics. And then we offer the employees a chance to also talk one-on-one with this person if they want to and continue the conversation cuz we encourage that. We feel like if people are feeling better about themselves, they'll be more productive and it'll serve us all. Every it has a big effect on people around you when you're not your best version. Your kids, your wife, your friends, everybody suffers when someone is not feeling well. And And I want to tell you, I was just talking to someone. This was shocking to me. I was just talking to someone and they were telling me that they don't feel connected to our community, to the people, to the neighbors, to the They don't feel connected and they don't they don't feel like they're a part of it. I'm like, what? You're not What are you talking about? You're you're very part of like from what I see. It just shows us how little we know. And it shows how how how blind we are, right? And what's happening is that the people in his life immediately are probably being affected by it because that person I think we owe it not to ourselves. We owe it to the people around us to be the best versions that you can be. And I think my wife was very astute when she brought it up in the beginning is, let's try to set ourselves up for success. Let's give ourselves a chance, a fighting chance. But in our community, unfortunately, it's been stigmatized. I think getting tuned in with yourself, get in touch with what happened in your lives and what triggered certain things and learn more about yourself. I think it's a beautiful thing. There's nothing to be ashamed of. And we've taught I was taught when I was younger and we we perpetuate it sometimes is you have to be a little bit ashamed of it. Keep things under the rug and no, that's not how you get better. That's actually how you escalate, that's how it festers, and that's how it become I'm very I'm very passionate about this because I think that, you know, I've seen people around me and it's a big deal. It makes a big change and we should embrace it. We should embrace it more. So, that's why I'd like to ask you, you know, what are your thoughts about it? I think for our kids, but I think schools should institute this. Gym class, there's math class, therapy class. Therapy class with one-on-ones, one-on-ones with the kids, just to check-ins, just, you know, I'm saying the parents should individually deal with it. I mean, the school is very that'd be very difficult. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a class where they actually teach them, how do you deal with anger when anger arises? Like, what's, you know, why is it important, you know, not to be addicted to things? And I I just just basic things to start the conversation. Yeah, exactly. When we get older is when we start working on ourselves. I think therapy is a great thing. I think therapy at that the way I understand therapy is to better me yourself. Yeah. Like, I actually think this podcast is therapeutic. Mhm. How often do we sit I mean, I don't go to therapy, but I would go if I thought it would better if it would do something for me. Sometimes you're not sure who the right person to go to is and things like that. challenge. If somebody could, you know, comment about a good therapist to help me with my golf issues, I'm great. I I would do it. That's where your problems lie in your golf game? Everything else is swimmingly doing okay? Golf is a metaphor for life. Golf is like life. How often does one sit down and and get posed questions that you respond to and you bring out things you don't even know you weren't think we weren't plan. I didn't see any of these questions. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And it's therapeutic. Yeah. By the way, I now we're talking a lot It keeps circling back to golf. It's I feel like I'm back at Kiddush with you guys. It goes back to golf. So, let me let me circle to actually one of the questions that's relevant for this, but it kind of opens up the door. in Augusta, I mean, with my mansion Okay, I think there's a question a lot of people want to know. And this is probably also good pointers for people that have the desire to play golf as often as you guys do because let's face it, you guys play golf a lot. I'm talking about it really covers a bulk of your day. You're busy, you know, with with golf. But how did you get your significant others to sort of participate and really enable this type of of of life that you have Do they have any I think most people couldn't get away with it. Now, I get it. You're both very good and it's for the greater good and all, but let's be realistic. There's got to be a line in the sand somewhere. I feel like you're crossing that line many times, but it's still going, you're still doing it. What's the secret? What's the secret? How do you do this? Mayor, I'm going to start with you. You're not going to love answer, but she just I I I didn't do anything. I don't coax her into it. I she just even today, which Al mentioned I've been on break for a week and she's like, why don't you go play? She's just a really sweet person. I don't know. She knows I like it. She knows I enjoy it and um she wants me to be happy. I don't know. It's pretty lame. It's not You might want to edit that out. Really, I can't even get you subscribers for that. Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't believe you. I believe that there is some type of arrangement. There's something that you're that you're holding back in us, but Al, I'm going to turn it to you. I'm going to turn to and ask you like how do you How do you balance it out? What do you have to give up? What else are you giving up that makes up for, you know, your lavish, exquisite lifestyle? Well, well, that's heavy. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that Mayor's wife allows him, so she can't, you know, competition. Like, if Mayor's wife lets him, of course my wife has to allow so she has to keep up, so I know that marriages have been like broken up over over golf. I know two or three people intimately that that literally would go to the golf course, change into their golf clothes, play golf, change back into their whatever clothes and go back home and not be able to tell their wives. I think We recently played with two random guys, two different guys, two different times and both had a similar story. Hey, I just had my first kid, so I've only been able to play like once a week now situation? Are you guys married? Yeah, we're married. You have kids? Yeah, four four kids? You both have four kids? And they're wide-eyed. They can't they can't believe it. They can't play because they have one kid, you know, except for maybe once a week, you know, we can't even play on Shabbos, otherwise we'd be playing. So, You don't see guys like you on the course a lot. Either the older people that are, you know, they already have grandkids, you know, they have the time, they're retired. And you guys are in the prime of your life Yes. and you're really having the luxury of doing what I'm very happy for you. Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy for you, but I mean, you guys recognize that it's, you know, an anomaly. It's not very common. Um it's a good, you know, like I always think to myself, like these are the best years of my life and I've been thinking that since I'm 10 years old. That's literally how I wake up every day and I think to myself, these are the best years of my life. Live as well as you can. Enjoy every day and I've repeatedly told my wife every single year, you know, like our kids are young, little kids, little problems. These are the best years, you know, like we're young we and as we got older, you know, our kids are still and now I have a teenager. I have a 15-year-old. He's an excellent kid. 12. For sure. Well, good for you. I'm happy for you. But you know, it's I can't answer it. Sometimes it's just I don't want to call it luck or or it's just a blessing. Okay, cool. I guess. So, I have a question I'm very curious about. I actually know this is a thing, but I don't know how it actually works. When it comes to a business deal that you're chasing after and you you agree to go out to the course and you go with the client and whatever it might be, right? There's an etiquette I imagine. I think there's an etiquette of how you approach that first question or that first time you bring up when it comes to the business part of it. Let's face it. If I would go to the course with someone, I'm going strictly because I I want to get to do business with them. I don't care about golf. I'm not interested in golf. For me, it's tedious. I just want to get through with the golf. That's all it is. I don't even know at what point am I supposed to talk about business between holes, in the club, at the very end when you everybody's going to drink, before in the driveway and get it out of the way and then go I'm not sure how it works. What is the policy protocol? What guidelines can you give when it comes to What's your best chances of getting a solid deal done and doing it in a professional way? What's the etiquette when it comes to business? How does it work? And I generally don't know, so I'm asking. I'll answer cuz Mayor's never done anything business related on the golf course. I would say like this. I think in business if you're looking at simply as transactional as like I'm trying to sell something to you and you're trying to buy something from me. It's really a low level of business when it's uh simply you know, you're going to the cash register and you're giving someone money for whatever goods you sell. I think when you get to a slightly higher level of business, you're you're really dealing with relationships. And that's really what golf is. Golf allows you like this. We're sitting here talking about you know, we're sitting here for 4 hours, 2 hours talking to each other where we normally won't do this. Golf affords you the ability to walk around for 4 hours together with no distractions, to speak to each other, to learn about their families, learn about the person, see how they carry themselves, how they manage themselves around the golf course. They could be good, they could be bad. Like the quality of their golf doesn't matter. Although I do believe that the better golfer kind of makes people believe that if you're competent in one area, you're probably competent in another area. But that may or may not be true. But I think that overall, it's about creating relationships. And when you know the person, usually you kind of understand how they'll react in business and how they'll treat you in business. And people want to work with people that they like. And Yeah. And and that's what it comes down to. I don't do I haven't done any deals on the golf course. So but I will say the one thing I think you could learn about a person on the course is there are guys who cheat a little bit. I'm not saying they're trying to trick you, but they fluff their ball up a little bit. In other words, if you hit the ball into the rough, which is the thicker grass, they might move it a little bit, which makes a gigantic difference. Or they might move it a little bit in the fairway or clean their ball a little bit or whatever it is. And sometimes they like will move it around. I found the ball behind the tree. Like there are little small things that people do that most people don't really care much about. And I believe that that shows you what they're about in life, too. Meaning they're if they're one who bends the truth a little bit, um that's somebody I would never want to partner with. That's not what I'm about at all. If anything, I would make sure to hit the ball with in a situation where Al might say to me, "Mayor, listen, that was a crazy situation. Like you can move that. I don't want you to get injured. There's a root there or something like that." I'm still going to hit it. Right? That's the only thing I'm going to add to this, but They believe that they believe that a the lie is true or that it's it's it's fair to Cuz isn't there a code of conduct in golf? We're playing for fun. If we're just playing for fun, like why why hurt yourself? I think like if when I'm playing with my son and I want him to learn the game and there's a situation that's rare or difficult that is not going to gain he's not going to gain anything from it. I'm going to say, "Listen, just move the ball a little bit. We're practicing here. We're learning." But that's a mutual understanding. We're talking about like in a situation where you're playing for money or you're in a tournament. It's the stakes are higher. You know, you see someone kind of go wander off and go, "Oh, found the ball." And like or the guy could be like, "All right, I'm dropping the ball here." And fine, he says I'm dropping the ball here and the funniest thing is when you finish a hole, some people will say, you know, one person usually keeps the card with the score. And people will say, "What do you want there?" As if as if like it's a question about what you want versus what actually happened. What happened? Right. So what do you want there? Like give me a five. Well, the guy made an eight. Oh, that's good. You know? So like two people can keep a scorecard and you'll have vastly different scores at the end of the day. Interesting. But that it's a study in human nature. It's a study in people's self-confidence, self-worth, how they view themselves. Uh some people feel like they're they shouldn't score a certain way. They should be better than they are. And so they just can't bring themselves to put a higher score than uh than and that to me speaks to someone that either has a warped sense of reality or at least an inability to kind of reconcile their own Yeah. I I asked Lawrence Hajioff, he's a you know, he's a rabbi and he's very big into you know, when Messiah comes, you know, Mashiach when it comes the end of days what's going to be So I asked him. I was like, "I was curious. Like what's going to happen when Mashiach comes and all the Jews are going to you know, we're all going to congregate in Israel or whatever version you know, they say is going to happen. What happens to the rest of the world? What happens to the people that are not Jews? Like where where do they go? What do they" He said, "No, no, no, no. They're still going to be around. Somebody has to buy retail, you know? Somebody that we we still need them to be around." But it was interesting because like you know, everybody ganders to think what's going to happen and what's going to be the end of days. Nobody really knows, you know? It's people have different perceptions of what's going to go on. But it's it's actually a scary thought, you know? Are you doing a better job raising your kids than your parents did raising you? You know, I I wonder. So I'm the product of my parents' parenting. First of all, first of all, I think you would say that Al is a great guy, right? And you got to give credit to the parents. I mean, whether they tried get him to be this at this point or whatever. At some point, if a person is successful and they're a good person, then don't you have to give your parents credit? Of course. Your parents say that I molded everything myself. Yeah. Now, we may think that they should have done things differently, but they're coming at it from a Al's parents and my parents come from very similar situation. Um and we're both the oldest uh in the family. Um but I think we both came out and are pretty successful. We're we're pillars of the community. We're good people. I think our kids think we're good people. Our wives think we're good people. I think overall, you just you got to give credit to your parents. That's what I would say. Okay, that's a beautiful thing and uh I'll I'll accept. Now, let's talk about some of those things that maybe weren't so great. Let's talk about some of the things that maybe we could learn from and do differently with our kids. Does anything come to mind when I ask you like what did you go through and your siblings go through that you've learned from and you are make a conscious effort to do something differently with your kids? I don't know that I do anything consciously differently. It's just that I am different than my my dad and my mom. So I don't think I'm trying to do things differently with my kids. I I actually think there are a lot of things I'm I I'm lacking or I I'm flawed in that my dad would have done better. You know, like for example, I believe I was pushed to do things to a certain level. I didn't always get to that level. I don't push my kids enough, you know? But it's just something that's just who I am and I'm not great at it. But I don't think that my parents did a bad job. My dad wanted me to be a certain person. I think that's fine with that. There are certain Let's say for example with athletes, some athletes will talk about their dad pushing them, pushing them and they were successful. I'm sure there are thousands of kids that were pushed that were never successful that we've never heard from. Right? And are broken. I don't think there's anything wrong. I mean, at the end of the day, a parent's job is to make their kid as great as possible. It's not It's easy to just say, "Here here, watch a show all day." and take off and just chill. That's easy. For a parent to go and work on their kid and spend time, even if their kid doesn't like it, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I think it's admirable. Just sometimes kids are hurt by it later on and they take offense to it. Right. But everything has balances. Me? Maybe I'd be a total loser. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Look, I I agree in a certain way that our parents, the older generation, knew what they were doing to some extent. I mean, a lot of us turned out okay. And you know, they had their challenges, they're flawed as well. They're not perfect people. And they overall did a good job. I don't think that you could say fairly one person does a better job than the other. I think it's very hard. There's a lot circumstances that I mean, there are people that are neglectful or abusive or Right. And that happens every generation. I think a parent's job is to see where their kid is weak and help them with that, which is very tough. Yeah. Right? Every Every family you look at it almost There is very are very few families that have every kid is exactly the same. Everyone's different. And helping a kid get to be the best they can be is the job of a parent. At the end of the day, in my belief is a kid was never asked to be born. A parent had the kid and it's the parent's job to make sure that their kid is the best they can be. Everyone's given different abilities. Yeah. Right? Like I can never be the golfer Al is. Just not really possible. He's more athletic than I am when it comes to that. But I can be as good as I can be and he can be as good as he can be. Different levels. Yeah. And that's what a parent's job is if you ask me. I love that. I love that comparison. Don't measure up to the next person. Just be the best version that you can be and that's what you want your kids to strive for as well. To be the best version of themselves and be a support system for that to get there and be a good resource for them. All right. So we're running out of time here slowly, guys. There's one thing you guys didn't touch on. Yeah. For sure like let's say my parents, even myself, like we didn't have the ability to join all these leagues, all the sports that we have That's true. and our kids that our parents my parents for sure. I'm a lot older than you guys. Like they didn't have nothing, you know? Like Little League like was like a a foreign thing. I grew up in Muncie. I'm here 42 years. I played in Muncie Little League when there was one front team and the other five or six front kids played on another team. But like there was one full front team. Lakewood, they're blasting. You see what's going on in Lakewood? They have this I think it's called LBA. And uh it's become a full-blown business. But actually they're actually like monetizing by the way. They're making money this league. Why do you think any of that is good for kids? Because what about the self-confidence that you get? I'm I'm asking that because I want I want to hear your opinion on it because I think it's bad. I No, no. You're I I as a person I I believe that for certain people sports allows people to explore their identity and it's a microcosm of their own life where they are many challenges replicate life challenges, which is why I think people are so obsessed with golf. I even athletes that have played football, basketball, whatever it is, they all gravitate towards golf when they're finished with their careers. And sports in general allows people to have a a microdose of intensity of overcoming challenges that and have a very clear direct result that they can realize. Well, that's a good thing. Oh, 100% and I think when we were So what don't you like? I do. I love I thought you said you don't like the ample amounts of leagues that are going on. Yeah, it's amazing. Because as you were talking I was like you're kind of proving my point. I like you know it's it's amazing for many reasons but Stephen to answer your question, the reason you're right. It was not around when we were kids. I'll push my kid into every league that exists. Like if he wants to play, I'm there. I'll And by the way, I'm backing it up. I put the effort in. I'll leave work early if I have to drive at 6:45 at night which was annoying to go to a basketball but I do it. Sundays, you know, I put the time in because I really think it's actually going to help him in a lot of ways. So it means something and it's important. It's I think it's critical as he grows. Kids today are they're not playing sports? Unfortunately, they're not considered like somewhat cool, you know, and they're not going to get that confidence and it's going to be harder for them to excel. It's going to be much harder for them. Uh you're speaking from someone who values sports. I've I've four kids. I have three boys. And I'm a big sports person. I play a lot of sports. I don't follow sports but I play a lot of sports. And one son plays sports, one doesn't, two don't. They're not so into it. And you know, they have groups of kids that just don't play sports and they're not into it and they're fine. As long as they develop a healthy um I would say humorous personality where they're not too they're not I think the key is not to be angry. Like kids these days seem the unhealthy ones seem to be a little bit angry. If they don't have this feeling at least maybe towards their parents or towards their life or school or whatever it is where they're not angry, I think they need like adults too. They need to have love of life. Right? I mean you love life, right? And you got up Some days, not every day. You got the party, you got a fire in you. Like you need a fire. So some people it's sports and sports is great but you know what? I remember playing I still vividly remember I was 9 10 years old and I was playing basketball and we had this kid on my team who was horrible. I mean like couldn't even dribble. And you know, it was one of those parents that like pushed their kid to play and we would never pass to the kid cuz he was terrible. And the mother literally started berating me like for not passing to the kid. I'm like your kid doesn't even want to play. He like literally told me don't pass me the ball. But you're crazy like the crazy mother. I still think about this kid. There's no way this kid's talking to the mother. Like the mother was It was almost like she needed it more than he No, she heard like oh, your kid has to play sports otherwise they'll you know. But like you just got to have a fire. You got to have a love. Hobbies. Where's the father? That's That's I don't know. That's a little bit odd by the way for like the mother to push. I don't know that was weird. Hobbies, hobbies. Like your wives have to have hobbies, your you have to have hobbies. It's important to have things you're interested in. If you have nothing that you like, how could you enjoy life? Right, right. You got to have certain hobbies. People that's total you know. I don't know what else is there. Golf. That's I don't know. What else do people like to do? Read. I mean whether it's there's so many there's guys who play darts and bowling and that's what they do every day four or five days a a week. You just have to enjoy it. Right. Pick something, find your lane and and live in it. And find it and it might change. Like a lot of think golf is dumb for many years and they'll never play golf. Like I play baseball, I play basketball, I play tennis. And then they start playing golf and then they can't believe. Like we have a friend, right, who just started playing golf. The guy's an absolute addict. He used to talk golf and say why are you guys talking about golf? Golf is so dumb. Right? It's so dumb. And now Did he say that at one point? Oh, absolutely. And now he's like why didn't you guys get me into it 10 years ago? Like well, we tried. Not like we're not going to coax you into it. You're bad people by the way cuz you know that this person is now going to inevitably and he's never going to do anything else. No, they reach equilibrium. People reach equilibrium. If they can't have a healthy relationship with golf, it means they have an unhealthy relationship with life and they have an inability to regulate their own emotions. Can I tell you guys something that I think the three of us can take on as a group? Yeah. The three of us as a little like let's take on a project to part ourselves. Because you're right, Mayor. I'm a decent guy. I have a decent personality. And I'm saying I'm decent, you know. The best. I I'm using very humble words. Yeah, what is your number one skill, Oishe? Number one skill. Yeah, what makes like My number one skill. What makes you good at it? Like in number one skill? Like you know, in life wow, that's a very hard question. I'm very uncomfortable right now. You know, what I would think is you make things happen. Okay, a doer. A lot of people are doers but yeah, I'll take I'll I'll label myself A doer might be told or asked to do something. You make it. You you conceive of the idea or even if someone else has the idea and you make it happen. I appreciate those kind words. Thank you. But I want to go back to what I was saying. I really think that we should do something. I could really do more of this. I think I'm a terrible person cuz I don't do this enough. How many people sit around not like us that are feeling somewhat in the background that are feeling somewhat removed that are feeling somewhat ignored and they would love to be more part of things. And what a difference it would make in someone's life and it really doesn't cost us a whole lot, right? We're not spending money on this. Just a little bit more of a just a little acknowledgement. A little I'm terrible at this. I want I I How about the guy I'm sitting on my hands. I I I'm a snob that way and and it's really not nice. And I want to make more of an effort and I think that the three of us should should take this on. It's to be more not just approachable. So I have people outreach. Probably you're going to start inviting like there's like three four guys that just moved into the neighborhood. You're going to start inviting them for meals. I'm inviting them to my home? What are you going to do? Whoa. You're going to say hi to them? I don't know. Invite them for breakfast? Anybody except I I had this idea that when we moved into the new synagogue, we moved into a new building a few weeks ago. And when obviously we always sit together. We've been sitting together for years at kiddush which is where we just sit around and talk like we're doing now that we if we all every seat has a seat number. Let's say we have 100 people there. You pull a number out of the hat and you have to sit in that seat. What a good We had this thing and everyone's like yeah, yeah, great idea. But the issue is yeah, it might be a great idea. You know why? Maybe the three of us could talk to any which guy but there are a lot of people who don't like this is my one hour that I get to chill and hang with my boys. That also by the way I'm backing the other side. What a good argument. I don't know what By the way, both are really good points. do it every fourth week. You could do it any Oh, but You know, it's every week. And now that's that's a good that's a good compromise. That's what we came up with. He said every uh Shabbos Mevorchim should be the one where everybody changes their seat. But it's a lot of work by the way cuz you have to prep this cuz you have to do who's coming that Shabbos. Make sure everybody's names is in a hat. You can't leave people out. No, no, pick a number. Go and pick a number. Oh, you pick a number and then you choose a number. Interesting idea. By the way, let's petition for this. I'll leave it up to you. I'm I'm going to petition for this. Uh first of all, I have to have to clear this with our venerable leader and our fearless leader the rabbi making sure that he's I can't see why he would have an issue with it. Okay, but we can't see it right now but you know, I'm going to bring it up. I I I'm a fan of this. Because first of all, I'm all about this podcast just so you know. Michael always preaches this and he mentions this a few times an episode. It's all about growing personally, becoming a little bit better than we were yesterday and professionally as well. Right? And the two really have a lot of uh there's a lot of synergy between growing professionally and personally. I don't think you can be good in business if you're not a happy person. Right? And What's the point of being good in business if you're not a happy Nothing. Who can Who can celebrate? Who cares? Would you rather be unhappy and rich or poor and happy? Well, that's a not a fair question. Obviously everybody would cuz if you're happy by definition things are working so it doesn't matter if you're poor, it doesn't matter if you're you know, happy is the key. Happy is wealth. Happy is wealth. Right. In a way it's almost like And then money has nothing to do with anything. Form of how you can reach happiness. I disagree. One variable. It's easier. It's easier. But I think happy people that are rich are happy. The problem also is a lot of people are rich don't think they're rich. They're not rich enough. That's They want more. Which is the craziest thing. Which is absurd. Like why do people need to go make more and more and more? Now listen, maybe you have a fear that you're going to lose it or whatever it is but you know, there are stories out there of people who die and they have millions of dollars and their kids don't even know they had any money. Like they lived like a pauper. True. Now, it's a good point. That Listen, at the end of the day I think that we should just make somewhat of an effort, you know, to uh make a little bit more outreach. That's the bottom line. When was the last time you spoke to someone like you had no idea who they were and like you learned about their life? By me approaching them? No, or just in general. When was the last time I made a new friend? The new person you met, you learned. Like this guy that you just talked about you said there was a guy in our community you thought he was like one of the I didn't say pillars. I said that. Okay, he thought I don't know who it is, right? And you thought he was a big piece of community, a lot of friends and you were surprised to find out he felt like he's an outsider. Was that shocking? Yeah. Yeah. He told you this in confidence? No. How did that come about? A throwaway conversation like on the side. Like it wasn't the reason why we spoke. We were talking and then kind of threw it in there and then caught me. is I'm not going to say who like as a specific name, but who in the community what type of person is the center of the spider web that branches out and touches everybody? Rabbi. 100%. I think we're very fortunate that we have a rabbi like this, but you don't got you guys don't even know. I don't none of us know the extent. I mean, some know more than others about few more stories here and there, but what he does. The amount of good that he does all over the place, it's unbelievable. But guys, we really are running out of time. We can't we can't go on forever. Tell you this. Michael, this is for you. This is a shout out to Michael. is awesome. Michael brings out the best in me, also the worst in me sometimes. What do you do with Michael now? That's what I'm saying. So, I feel like we really missed a big chunk of the I'm realizing now that I'm not doing it without him. Like I said, you sometimes you don't see what's in front of you until you don't have it. You don't realize how badly you actually Michael really is a major asset. Like you know, he has a way of keeping the conversation going in a in a very fun way and I'm a big fan of Michael's. He does a lot of things very very well. It's one of the things he does well. He's been sorely missed on this episode, but What doesn't he do well? What doesn't he do well? I'm going to tell he knows he knows he knows. We By the way, Michael brought up this idea a long time ago. I think partners should be scoring each other and should be doing reviews with each other every so often about what do you feel that they're doing well? What are they not doing well? Okay, but this last story and then we got to wrap up. He's such an arrogant Let me wrap it and then let's continue. Then we're off the podcast? the podcast. Yeah, we'll we'll just uh You By the way, he's hooked now. He he needs a microphone here. Oh, there's going to be a tomorrow morning we're we're going to be doing a podcast from the golf course tomorrow. We're recording a podcast like Mayor, we're back at the golf course after your hiatus of 1 week. How was about that? Your muscles have atrophied. You have completely shriveled. Can you even hold a club? Atrophied? You know what that means? No, that's what a great word. Atrophied? Atrophied? Yeah, it's good. Okay, that's too much. Well. Okay. I E D. atrophied mean? It basically means to like shrivel up and like Like what Have you ever used that word before? Yeah. it just like come to your head right now? Have I ever used it? No, but of course it's in my Wow, what a word. What a great word. Atrophied? I just like the way it sounds. Can we use it for the title of your I'm going to figure out how to incorporate that now into certain sentences that I use a lot. I have to figure it out, but great word. So, listen guys, this has been amazing. You guys have been excellent guests. Before we finish, we'd like to do something, which is we ask our guests to recommend somebody else to be on the podcast. Somebody you think might be a good candidate, somebody that's interesting, somebody that has what to offer, that could contribute towards our growth. Who would you recommend? I would like for you to make that call now on air, make the call and ask the person if they would be interested in joining our podcast. Anybody that comes to mind, anybody you can think of? Who's coming to mind, Al? Mayor. We should both write it we should both write a name down and we should see if the names is to end up being the same same name. It's going to end up being the same name. I think I can tell you both know who Hold on. He knows who I will pick and I will who he'll pick so we can if you do this person we have to be here. Yeah, I want to be part of it. And it'll be great. And it'll be great. Can we call I believe I think we should call I think it'll be great. This person is fantastic, be unbelievable Who is this person? And they are a Are they local? They live within 20 minutes He's around here. He's within 10 minutes of here many times a day and many times a week. No, no, no, no, And he's a business I mean like in terms of business the guest of your time. What's he doing tomorrow? Who are you talking to? The person you want to do it with Michael. Huh? Well, who are you talking about? You say it and I'll tell you if it's the right guy. Okay. Well, no. I mean Is this guy Or you Or I was talking about somebody else. We have two guys. We have two potentials now. I thought he would be spectacular. Yeah, he'll be great. Yeah. Who are you thinking about? I'm thinking about Leonard Schleifer. He's a he started his own business. It's a publicly traded company. It's health care. Really? Regeneron and he's a a spectacular guy. He's he we play golf with him and he's I think he would do it. Absolutely think he would do it. Al, let's go. Al, let's go. And the problem is now that I didn't say Al's guy when Al's guy sees this podcast, I'm going to be in the doghouse. Well, no. Listen, you went billionaire so that's fine. I thought about money. He's uber successful, but he created many drugs. He's a neurologist. He invented monoclonal. Yeah. I'm saying you remember when COVID happened, he invented I'm I'm saying he's I would be shocked if he didn't come on. I think he would do it. You think so? know. Let me ask you guys. It is very well documented and very well known that golf is very expensive. Not a cheap sport. Not everybody can afford to have a life that revolves around golf. So, I know that it costs a lot of money to be a part of clubs and pay memberships. What would you say is the most money you spent in any particular year? I've always I I was lucky enough to be part of a club very early in my life because I managed to make some connections and find a place. When you're young, they let you join for very very reasonable rate because they want young members in hopes that they'll continue you know, to you know, patronize the club and be there. The course of your career, your life, how much do you think you spent? Over everything. Don't break it down by year. Just like to this point, how So, like I spent I have not been a member for that long. Right. You've even been a Half a million dollars you spent? No. Over the lifetime of your playing career? crazy. Oh my god. Wow. For the first 10 years of my life it was $2,000 a year, $3,000 a year. Okay. I'm going to move on from this topic because I can tell you're uncomfortable with it and that's fine. I don't Rightfully so by the way. I don't know. It is a little bit No. To spend this kind of money on anything on anything, not just golf on anything it's a little bit excessive, but let me ask you I think people spend a lot of money on food or whatever and I think that's absurd. Like why would you go out to eat and spend a thousand dollars at a nice restaurant two times a week? I just don't understand it. People don't go twice a week to a fancy restaurant. They they they like It's a different day. You have a meeting, business expenses covered. order everything on the menu That's not the same. You guys are clearly addicted to golf. You have an addiction. Let me ask you this. What is an addiction? That you like doing it excessively and you you have withdrawals when you don't do it. Like if you're not playing golf, you're in a bad place. You get like somber and you you have Well, he's going to get back into it. Maybe yes, maybe no. What do you mean? I told the club that he quit. I'm sure you know You know that? They put his membership on hold. His membership on hold. Let's do over under how long he gets back into it. Non grata. Let's do over under. His face is actually when you walk in there's like a guard booth that's unattended and there's a picture of his face. The truth is I mean I'm sorry. I do have to go back to the club because I don't know if you heard, but I had a hole-in-one this year. If you heard, but I had a hole-in-one this year. Is that like something that you do or tremendously luck and Al is a much better player than I am and he has not had one in what? 14 years? 12 years. In 12 years you've never had one hole-in-one. It's been 12 years. Let me just tell you about my hole-in-one though. I was with Al and we had a caddy. The caddy is the guy who carries our bags. He's a good friend of ours now. We get up to the hole, the tee. Tommy Fitz Maurice. And they're pretty much four opportunities around that you can have a hole-in-one. It's called a par three. It's a shot that's a one shot into the green. And before I hit the ball, I don't know why. I don't think I've ever done this before, but I made a declaration and announcement and I said, you know, it's been nine years I've been playing golf. I've never had a hole-in-one. I've never seen a hole-in-one. I've never been in a group with one. And you said here it is. It's happening now. You're like Babe Ruth. You you called it out. I'm hitting a home You know, everyone says that was a joke. It was a scam. He didn't really do that. He was pointing. No one really knows. I made a whole speech. It was a little rainy, a little wet. I actually asked the caddy for a towel to dry my right hand. For whatever reason I stood over the ball 185 yards is 545 feet away from the pin and I felt like it was going in. I hit it and it went in. The happiest day of your life. No, it wasn't the happiest It was it's a weird feeling cuz But it's not all luck. It had some skill involved that you were able to hit it around the hole. I think what you tapped into this the happiest day of your life. I think the happiest day of your life is not like the day you accomplish something. When you look back on the happiest day of your life are the days you put in the effort to get to that point. It's experience. moment Well, I would I don't disagree with Al, but I think the happiest moments of your life are something sudden and unexpected. Like I don't You think so? Yeah, I don't like when people when people say the happiest day of my life was when I had a kid and I have four beautiful kids. I love my kids. Love them. But the day they were born, I knew for many months we were having a kid. It wasn't unexpected. It wasn't like something Now, somebody who maybe had trouble having kids for many years and finally has a kid, I could totally understand why it's something really special. But if you have a kid at a young age and then you have other kids that follow, I don't think that the day they are born is something so special. It's moments in their life that are more special. Their first time they take a step or they say daddy or something is way more special. It comes out of nowhere. Right? It just happens. So, a hole-in-one, it just happened. Like and not only that, but you whatever reason you have a conversation throughout time and people are like, how many hole-in-ones do you have? I'm like, zero. How many hole-in-ones do you have? Zero. You know, it happens all the I've never seen one. I've never had one. I'll never have one. I'll never see one. Average is about four hole-in-ones a year. Now Right. Now and and there are different sets of tees, how far away you are. How many of those do you think that someone actually say in advance, make an announcement, I think I'm going to have a hole-in-one here. It was a special moment. I do it every time now. It was a cool moment. It was with Al. I'm going to be a little bit mean and I apologize in advance to both of you. But I'm actually a little bit mortified right now and I'll tell you why. You ever heard someone say like they put like a lot of salt on their on their food and you ask them like, are you having some lasagna with your salt? Right. You know, like you ever you ever heard people make that joke? Talk to me. I feel like you guys have a lot of golf with your life. I feel like almost like every time you guys make a metaphor or you make a certain comparison, you revert back to something in golf and you make that connection. And that golfers don't get it. And by the way, I'm like a little turned off because like I could appreciate somebody who loves something and is very passionate about it, but it gets to a certain point. This is the problem. This is already too much. It's getting into unhealthy space and let's not kid ourselves. I guarantee that there's a little bit of neglect going on somewhere in your life, people in your life because of your golf habit and everybody appreciate somebody that cares about something that's fine, but not too much. They always say too much of a good thing is not a good thing, right? Got to have that balance, that fine line. Do you not agree? You have the winter. A disease maybe I could almost go as far as to say and maybe we we we need to have you guys sit in therapy to figure out what is this drive that you have to just obsessively be focused in golf. You know, I think golf is unique in that it's the ability to basically live a life in 4 hours and have it have a beginning and an end. And that's why it's so addictive. You you're literally born on the first tee and you die on the last green. And you have the opportunity to literally be born and die in 4 hours. And that's why I think people love it. It gives you the opportunity to really live a complete life in 4 hours and see what happens. You're literally proving my point, Al. No, oh You're proving my point right now. Again, you're comparing the essence of living life to a golf game in 4 hours where you're born and then you It's crazy because there's What in life is there finality? What do you do where you are judged from a beginning and an end? What have you done lately that there isn't end, a conclusive end to what you've done? What What was the last time you did something that started and ended in the day? every day and it finishes. You made a mistake in work, you fix it the next day. No, you you No, what do you mean? Any sport you have that opportunity to perform and if you don't, you you can't other people Okay, so there's so you're better off tomorrow. Tomorrow's a new day. You have a better new life. It's a new life. No, no, no, I need to do an intervention with you guys. Well, wait, hold on. Enough is enough. I have to be the one to say it, guys. At a certain point, you really have to have a hard reflection over here and ask yourself that is this maybe a little bit too much? Have I gotten carried away? Have I taken this a little bit too far? You got to be a little bit open with that. Hold on, is this quantity based or is this or is this just total or just totally consumed by both? What if there's a guy I'm still and all the time. What if there's a guy who plays once a month, but all he thinks about he daydreams all day long about golf. He just doesn't have the money to play, can't get out, I don't know whatever it is. No, it's in the middle of winter. Dreams about There are many people who daydream about a lot of different things and and think about it all the time. What if it doesn't consume my thoughts other than when I play? Right? And I play. But some people think about things all the time. That's all they think about. Maybe it's money. Right? Maybe it's losing weight. Whatever it is, it consumes it consumes them. And that's also bad. I don't think That's bad. I no longer think about golf when I'm not playing. Like I'd like to call you out on that. Okay. Because I hang out with you a good amount. Whenever we hang out, the conversation steers to the direction of golf. the time. They assume that's what we want to talk about. I wasn't sure actually if we would actually talk about golf today. We didn't see the questions and I was fascinated because we sit and talk at Kiddush and you have this rule, no golf talk. And I was Which we only stick to for about 5 minutes. like Ushi is going to run this conversation. He's the ball. Okay, so let me So let me play ball for a second. All right, go. Go ahead. Man, I would have bet that we were not going to talk about golf. That's wrong. You never lose a bet. I do want to focus a little bit on something that is actually pretty spectacular because, you know, both of you, Al, you mostly, I mean, you are a one-of-a-kind talent. You're probably the best Jewish golfer that's alive tonight. And that's a big deal. Sure, that's what I meant. That's Orthodox golfer that's alive tonight. It'd be remiss if I didn't talk about that and bring it up and share that experience with with the listeners. Of course, I would talk about it. But you're right. You're right. I myself now I'm getting sucked into your world of just talking about golf and I'd like to deviate from that a little bit. And I want to ask you so aside from golf, I want to hear you know, think about it first. You don't have to answer me right away because it's a little bit of a personal question. What else are you addicted to? Addicted? Yeah, what else do you feel like you have an addiction to? You know, I think the sign of really a good podcast is the listener having the debate themselves with what you're talking about. You know what they should say or you know what they I disagree with this or disagree with that. Ushi is an idiot cuz he didn't understand Right. He doesn't hold his wife's hand. Like what he doesn't understand that it's circumstantial and that like Of course, what an idiot. And you're sitting there screaming at them. I'm like, hey, they did a good job. Yeah, they did a good job. No, that's the purpose of it. It's to Yeah, I saw I don't think that they don't even know what we're talking about. I don't understand Let's try to go like 5 minutes without the word golf. to? Without the word golf. What are you addicted to? I don't know. I I eat too much. I I don't want to necessarily say it's addictive, but I'm addicted to my phone. And I hate it. I hate that I'm addicted to my phone in the sense that like I'm checking emails, checking texts, checking WhatsApp, checking YouTube, Instagram, whatever it is. I definitely feel that there's a dopamine dopamine related release when I'm I'm looking and checking. I don't have it like Shabbos or Yom Tov 3 days, it's off. I don't miss it. But then when it's available and I think that's what the studies have shown that like when the phone you know, you phantom buzz in your pocket, I'm definitely addicted to to my phone and I hate it and I hope there's a day where I don't have to deal with my phone. Are you doing anything about it? I'm thinking about doing something about it. I'm not doing anything about it because it's so difficult. It has the power of heroin and the same time I we all need it because we have to read our emails realistic here. We're all addicted to our phones. You're not alone. I don't think I am. No? So I the only social media that I use is Twitter and I do it for like sports and news and for a month I decided I just deleted the app off my phone. I don't post or anything like that. Well, on WhatsApp I will post some golf related content that I've been been told is actually Does Does your wife or your kids make you crazy that you're on your phone all the time and it's too much? Do they My kids, yeah. My kids will say, "Dad, you're always working. You're always answering emails." We actually have a chat with this guy who Al thinks should be on your podcast, the three of us and it's very busy. When Mayor quit golf, I actually muted the chat for 8 hours because it started going in directions I'm out. I need a break. He knows I never quit. I always threaten to quit. It doesn't really make any He was more concerned about it at this time. Honestly, this last time Mayor quit to the point where I actually believed he should You didn't go 5 minutes. That's 5 minutes. It's amazing. I think he should quit. You know, you guys have a problem. We really need to do an intervention over here. I feel like there's something maybe in your lives that you're running away from. No, absolutely There There I mean, it's the only explanation. It's the only logical explanation is that you're filling a certain void and this gives you your fix. I feel like you need this golf. You need it in your life. Without it you're lost, you're alone, you're abandoned. Like what? I don't know many people that are attached to something to this extent, this level. I'm like blown away by how committed and devoted you are to this that I don't think you realize how far it goes. That's why I think Mayor should quit. That's why I think he should quit. I think that perhaps you should try to stay off a little bit longer. Maybe because you're going to end up like Al one day. I'll be kidding. Like this golf goblin is like More golf. Give me more golf. Not at all. It's It's intense. Well, here's the the golfer. Al is spectacular. Yes, that's what we agree. No, obviously there are better than him, but I'm a very I don't take it serious Not that I take it seriously, but I I'm not um an angry golfer. All right, let me let me pose it to you this way. I don't get frustrated. see it now another bird's eye view here. If I were to tell you Yeah. that in about 3 years No. your son Uh-huh. is going to go down the same path that you went down. He might actually discover this a little earlier than you did. And he's going to become exactly like you, play as much as you do, talk about it as much as you do, build around his life around golf, building vacations around golf. Your son is going to do the same exact thing. I'd be very I'd be very happy. You'd be happy? You'd be happy for your son the way I'm doing it. Exactly the way you're doing it. Play as much as you're playing, often as you are. If you could do it, I'd be very happy. You know, his wife is anti-golf. That's That's a dynamic that you can't answer. I mean, is the wife If he's a golfer before he gets married That's why my wife was into me because what would happen was she would text me and I'd put my phone in my golf bag. I wouldn't see it for 4 hours. She's like, "Who is this guy? He doesn't answer me for 4 hours." So it served you Oh, it was great. you. It was great and I'd be like, "Oh, sorry." Little did she know Little did she Yeah, exactly. With my wife, I didn't start playing till after I was married. One day she started seeing boxes of these weird sized boxes, long and narrow and it's clubs. I'm like, "You're getting another Like you know, there's 14 clubs that we play with." And she's like, "14 clubs?" Like you know, most people think, "What do you need more than like two or One racket, one pickleball racket. Usually use one, but there's In golf you have 14 clubs in your bag and they're different sizes and stuff. Al, do you think your wife would prefer secretly that you weren't this into golf? No, no, no, don't do that. Don't put Don't put it on me. We know the answer, Al. Would you be happy? He has zero guilt, this guy. Hold on. You literally Zero guilt. You're doing your wife a favor. My I actually know my I actually don't think my kids should golf. And my wife's actually tried to get me to get my kids lessons, and I don't think it's that healthy. And I think that the big dynamic is the wife. Wow. If she says yes, this could be And my wife My wife thinks I should I said, "Would you be happy if I quit golf for life?" Tell me that you never asked her that question before. She'd be happy if Of course not. She knows he She knows he'd be She's asked me if she if I love her more than golf. She's asked you that question? Yeah. What's your answer? It's a situation. It depends on the day. That's on the day. It depends on how things You know what? Right now, right now it's golf. Oh my goodness. She's By the way, it's a real contention. No. What do you mean? It's a good she feels when I say it's her over golf. Cuz I Cuz she knows how much you love golf. "You probably played bad, didn't you?" Yes, I did. Oh my goodness. By the way, this is phenomenal. And And a part of me envies you that you have something so near and dear to your heart that you can pursue, and you can do Part of me envies you. Guys, a part of me, I'll be honest, feels bad for you. A part of me does I feel like you're missing out in a lot of other things in life. You're missing What? Tell me what I'm missing out on. Tell me what I'm missing. What are you missing? I don't think he's missing any Actually, let me just say vacations or whatever. Like there was a couple guys talking about a vacation. Like I message out even while I'm retired this week. Like I'm not going on a vacation that's not centered around golf. A golf vacation is the purest vacation of all. Like there's The biggest reason I would never retire from golf is because I can't miss those vacations. That is just like this It's special. The lead up to it. Like we come along. You make sandwiches. We joke around. Like we want to make sure that we have another trip booked when we take our trip. And obviously mostly in the winter. Have you ever How many times do you lie to your wife or to Never. to your to your workmates or people that you have to Someone account How often do you lie so you can continue to play can You don't lie? I want Oh, that's the line you don't cross? What do you mean? What line do I cross? Let's say your wife says, "I really need you today, you know, you And I won't come. And you say, "But you really want to golf that day." And then you say, "No, no, I have a work function that I have to be at work. I can't. I'm sorry. No. You don't do that? So don't lie ever? Not only that, but I'll say, "I'm golfing." It hasn't happened for probably 8 years. Years ago before I started my business, my wife would call me and say, "Hey, did you leave the office yet?" And I'm like, "You know, why don't you just track me on Find My iPhone?" So for over the last 8 years weird. She sees where I'm at, and she knows if I left. She actually will wait now to call me about work issues till after I leave. And when she sees I've left, she'll call and tell me what things have occurred throughout the day. I didn't hear anything anymore after I heard you just say we work together. Yeah. Me and my wife, we work together. Like that's striking to me. I literally did not hear anything after that. I asked my wife, "Would you be happy if I quit golf for life?" She goes, "No, of course not. You'd be miserable." That I just said She cares about you. Right. She would be happier for it, but she wouldn't Say if I could be happy Yeah. while playing Obviously she would want you to quit. She would want you to quit. But that's a very good wife you have. Very nice. What? But you know what? I got to say that She has other hobbies, too. No, no, no, but she's involved. We're like before Like when we were first married and she didn't fully get the golf thing, and she was pregnant, and she had to be up like with our first kid. We're very young. I was 21. She was 19 or 20, whatever it was. Um she was on bed rest when she was pregnant. And I was like I didn't I wasn't really working. I was in school. I was in between. I'd be like, "All right, I finished the classes. I'm going to go play golf." She was like, "Wait a second. I'm just sitting here on bed rest. Hang out. Let's just I'm like, "Well, uh I don't want to sit inside." And so she wasn't so thrilled with it. But as we matured, we worked on our relationship, and we worked on our desire for each of us to be happy with the other person doing what they wanted to do with their hobbies and whatever it was. Now, she's thrilled for me to play. Good for you. Yeah. You're very lucky. This has been amazing. This has been great. Thanks for Thanks for doing this. I'm glad it's going to get condensed into an hour and 5 minutes. try our best. We're going to try our best. All right, guys. That's a wrap. Okay.