Selling Companies Seeing Kaleidoscopes #spiritualhealing #mindsetshift #jewishpodcast #newepisode

I wake up. He looks at me. He goes, "Happy birthday." What was that? He goes, "You just died and you came back. Happy birthday." How long was this whole experience? 15 minutes. None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. Guys, Ze aka Zack Merurmstein was on our podcast and the reason why I was excited to have him on was entirely different for what the discussion was at the end. I thought we're going to talk about the fact that he exited a company and he's restarting a new one and he's now back in the healthcare industry and what it was like to make events and his process of getting divorced from his company and personally and reestablishing himself which was very very interesting. But towards the end, he opened up about something that I knew about, but I wasn't really 100% sure. And we spoke about his journey medically, I may add, of Iawaska. And I'm I'm super excited. I think that um I think we have to prepare ourselves. Is the world ready to hear about a typical entrepreneur person in your you're praying with living in your neighborhood doing Iawaska and talk about it publicly? 100%. I actually think not only is the world ready for it, I think the world is very in tune with it because it has been stigmatized for a long time. And like anything in life, you can use it both ways. You can use it for positive or for negative, right? Your biggest strength can be your biggest weakness. And for a long time, it's been looked down upon like it's something that's negative and it's a bad thing. But if you use right and if you do it responsibly, it can actually be a very uplifting thing and it can be in a healthy environment, it can be eye- openening. And I think that's what he was telling us and that's what he was explaining. And I think the world has now learned to accept a lot more things than we've ever done because what instead of just knocking it and saying it's all or nothing, let's find a way to actually make it better. Let's enhance it. Let's use the good strong parts to make ourselves better people. And I think that's what he really showed us is how it helped him and how it helped him in a lot of ways. And I think the world is more receptive to it now than they ever were. It took him like 45 minutes to open up to that. So I think we need to start this week's podcast with the end which is going to be super cool. Um so let's jump right into it. But before we do, I just want to mention something that doing something medically. Did I say that right? I don't know, but it sounded good. Um, you know, when it comes to treating something like depression, anxiety, stress, or something in general, trauma, I'm going to advise everyone listening, what I advise to myself, and I've taken upon myself years ago, is before you make life-changing decisions, seek advice of three mentors that you trust and speak to them about what you're about to do and make sure that it's right for you. Because anything that you ingest that affects your body and your mind and your soul and you know and taps into your subconscious is scary. So with that being said, let's take it from there. And oh, I'm going to miss you. I'm going to Israel for the next few weeks and it's going to be the holidays. We're not going to be putting out a podcast for a couple of weeks. And um but I'm going to be recording my entire journey in Israel, including the market, including the bunkers, including interviewing people. And we have a friendly competition going about you doing your own podcast and my me doing my own. And that's exciting. So, um by the way, if my podcast that I do alone does better than any podcast we've previously done, we're going to have to have a hard conversation. You know what? Ditto. You're going to we're going to have to really re-evaluate what we're doing over here. If you are just tuning into this and didn't see this on my status, um she and I are having a friendly, right? Starting out as friendly. We'll see where it goes. We're having a friendly competition where because I'm in Israel doing interviews on my own, she felt it would be apppropo for him to interview his besties who are interesting and to do it on his own solo. So she's going to be having a podcast with him and two very interesting guests that are his close confidants and friends and I shall be doing the same. So wish us both luck on our competition and take a listen to our conversation with Zish. Welcome back everybody to another amazing episode of the None of Your Business podcast. Thank you again for the Prime Source community for helping us sponsor these podcasts so far. It's been an amazing journey so far, Oshi. Wouldn't you say? I love it. Yeah, it's been great so far. You ready for this one, Osh? Yeah, you know, I'm I'm a little bit uh out of it this morning. I will get you into it, but I think slowly I will come to my I think I think that the guest that we have today is going to is going to get you right into the right spirit of things. Um please don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, follow, do all those amazing things. Give us your feedback because it's with your feedback that we continue to grow. So, we are joined with a very good friend, Ze Mermolstein. Zeish, aka Zack. I remember you using the name Zack, right? Back in the Hey. Back in the day. Yeah. [laughter] Uh, it's been a while since I know you. I just want to mention that I'm honored to have you here. Uh, not only because you're another guest on the Ushi and Michael None of Your Business podcast, but also you are the first recommended guest to be on our podcast. Many people at the end of the show we asked them to uh give us an idea who they would recommend and we had Yissy Churns on our podcast by the way. Great episode we had with him did really really well. People loved it and he recommended you and lo and behold you said yes and here you are today. So it's a real pleasure to have you here. I great being here. Keep spreading the light, keep spreading the energy and Y's podcast was great. I listen to it. So appreciate all of that. Yes. He's a guy spreading the light, spreading the energy. So yeah, don't stop. Do you listen to all our podcasts so far? Bits and pieces of them for sure. Oh, so you haven't listened to everyone religiously? No, I can't say I had to. So you're not like a stalker fan of ours just yet? Not a groupy. Any any constructive criticism for what you've heard so far? Any Tell us one really good thing that we're doing and one thing that we could be doing better. One thing I love that you guys changed up is that you're sitting in this seat now. [laughter] That to me is really The jury is still out on that one. Let's just make a mental note for those who can't see us that Ushi has taken center stage. Not the mic is not good enough. He wants the center stage with the mic and I gave it to him. Yeah, I was promoted and Michael got demoted to the side seat. But I'm actually realizing now that I'm sitting in this seat that that seat might be actually a little better. Ah, you want to switch back? I'm ready. I'm ready. It's greener over there. The grass is always green. Exactly. You don't realize how good you have it until you look at somebody else's shoes. You sit in their shoes and you realize, you know what? I want my old life back. I don't know if I like this new life so much. Um, you know, we've been uh we've been doing this thing called the lightning round. And I'd like to start off this podcast for the very first time with the lightning round because it'll give a flavor for where the uh discussion is going to head. All right. So, are you ready for that? I have a couple of questions. But we got to put a timer on because these lightning round questions have to be answered off the cuff. First thing that pops into your mind. It can't be you're thinking about it. So you get 60 seconds for the 10 questions. Okay? You get one none of your business. One pass only. The other nine you have to answer by contract that we have here before this podcast. You agreed. So we have to make sure that Do I got like a call a friend? No. No. No phone of friends. No phone of friends. No phone of friends. You're going to have to do this. I'm going to put the timer on. Michael. Okay. Um you ready? Let's go for it. Zech, what is the most expensive item that you ever bought just for yourself? What is your life motto in one sentence? You do you all the way. If you had to choose no more morning prayers versus no more psychedelics, which one would you choose? No more psychedelics. What's your business motto that guided you through this entire amazing career of yours? Think big. Think bigger. What's the most uncomfortable part of running your company? Realizing that your entire payroll means not just another business expense, but there's families and children behind every paycheck. And when you need to make payroll, you need to know it's not just an expense that needs to be covered. What's more stressful, negotiating millions or throwing the perfect party? Throwing the perfect party, for sure. [laughter] I've been at one of your perfect parties and I have to say it was awesome. U that's all I have for you for right now. That went okay. It went okay. Oh, she's not into this. He's he he rather doesn't tell us anything about Ze. We learned nothing about him. Only thing I took out of this is that he has a boat and I need to be better friends with him. That's about it. Why don't we talk about the Iawaska? I feel like that's a perfect time now. You mentioned Cabala. You mentioned to me Yeah. that he's somebody who's very into I Well, I don't think people in general know what it is. So, I don't either know what it is. I'd love to learn about it because it sounds very trippy. It sounds amazing. I'm all for substances. You know, I'm first in line, so I want to hear about it. For healthy, life-changing substances. Of course. Of course. Of course. What did you mean? No. I'm just making sure. What did you think of other people may I mean, if you're in a restaurant listening to you might [laughter] So, tell us about this. What what what experience do you have in this field? What do you know about it? What have you done? What can you share? Let's get into it. Well, yeah. Maybe you can explain it to us also in general what it is. The idea of as it relates to psychedelics. Yeah, the psychedelics and your spiritual journey and where it started, how you got inspired. We're up to that point in your life, you know, where the fish smelled so bad you got rid of it. What happened then? How did you get inspired? How did you get involved in that part of your life? It really started, you know, like we always say, nothing is by accident. Absolutely nothing. At the same time that I moved to my a gentleman by the name of Ravd Ber Pinson also moved to my from Brooklyn co I don't even know the reasons but we ended up davening he wasn't a rabbi he was just Rav Pinson who moved into the neighborhood of Montabelloo and we ended up dvening in the same shul at that point he started being a mashpia he started speaking and they told me he wrote like 40 50 books at the time. What? Ordered one. You can only order them on Amazon. They're not in the swarm stores. That already was like, "This is all different." And I read it and my wife starts imitating me of what I looked like when I would read it. And I'd read a page and I'm like, "Did he just say that?" And I'd put it down on my chest. I can't believe he just said that. He just put words to feelings I've had my entire life and had no language for it. Really? What's the name of this book? It started with breathing and quieting the mind, visualization and imagery. So would that be a book you recommend from him? Is that his best one? Again, I didn't read all 60 yet and it's up to 60. He just put out one last week. I I had the honor of meeting him. You introduced us to him at one of our talks that we had. An amazing amazing human being. Yeah. So I I I mean I want equinimity. That concept of equinimity you cannot insult or I learned from him. He writes about personal behavior and everything. It's all about it's all about you know as above so below and understanding that life is unfolding in front of us in the moment at every moment to get out of your past and you're stuck in your past that be anybody or anything that's stuck in its past is not a lie by definition. We move forward. So, and if we believe and you can bring it to the big bang theory or you can bring it to the boratious story in the Torah, it's the same real thing which is the big bang is happening every moment which means at every moment the world is being recreated. There's an exhil which starts from nothing to something happening at every moment. It's not a one-time event that happened. It's happening. Okay. So, you're reading the book, [laughter] you're putting it on your chest, you're saying, "Oh my gosh, and I'm blown away by how he sees." And he incorporates feelings into Judaism, which was never a thing. When we grew up in yeshiva, I don't feel like learning today. There was no such where your feelings come in. I don't feel smack in the face you go sit back down at your chair. Since when does feelings a thing? Um, and I've had a conversation with a great person and once said to him, you know, my feelings never mattered to you. And he goes, correct, because everything I've done was to keep you out of hell. Where do feelings come in? Wow. And there's a truth to that when that's your whole end goal. Instead of living in this world, I'm here to live in this world and the next but in this world. But reading the books all of a sudden started opening my mind that the what I was running away from there's another option. there's another there words here that I can tap into and started really reading and going to his classes and following his YouTubes and he's been posting for 30 years on YouTube and really getting close to him and that was lifechanging. That was my first lifechanging part that came, you know, moving to my having air to breathe. That was huge for me coming from Brooklyn of 35 years. I grew up upstate in South Falls. My father was a rebby in the yeshiva upstate. So from when I was born until I was 7 years old, I lived in South Falls with the snow that was taller than me and loved it. Then we moved to Brooklyn and stayed there throughout my elementary high school, got married, stayed there for 21 years until I got back out and started breathing and like I said, going to the park every day and needed it. It was literally part of me that needed, especially in the first couple of years that I moved here, I needed that park every day just to breathe. And just going through it every day and seeing nature progress day after day is the most amazing fact. Like today, we were talking with a couple of guys. I said, "Where are all the leaves in the forest that fell in the last 10 years? They're all gone. They disintegrate. And where do they go? into the air, into the ground, the atmosphere, into the ground. They get it's the like the formula for the ground that feeds the ground the the nutrients it needs. The the leaves themselves fertilize the ground. So maybe the le the whole tree when it's alive is only producing dead leaves. Maybe it's most alive when the leaves are dead. Maybe. Can we get to the psychedelics part? I [laughter] I wish about this. I'm Yeah, it's No, no, but keep going. So, Rabbi Pinson, so two years after that, one afternoon, I was home on a Sunday afternoon and a friend of m and I reached out to a friend of mine. He said, I said, "You want to come over to the schvitz, the sauna in my house?" He goes, "I could." Or, "You could come over here." And I knew nothing. And I'm like, "Sure, I'll come over there. I'm always up to something new." He goes, "You ready to change your life forever?" I'm like, "Today may be a good idea." Mhm. What does that mean? He goes, "Are you ready? Yes or no?" And me and being me, said, "Sure." And he laid me down on a mattress and put on a headphone and the most trippy music and the mattress starts vibrating. And I'm going and the vibrations are going with the music. So as the music gets more intense, the vibrations getting down and you could totally lose yourself in that experience itself, but maybe 10 minutes of that. And he says to me, and again, no proper set or setting as they call it. You know, in psychedelics, the big thing is a call set and setting, which is your mindset going in and the setting you're in. You know, are you at a party or are you at a uh some type of spiritual event? you know, the setting of where it is and the mindset going in is all about how your experience is going to be. So, the mindset wasn't there because I had no idea what I was walking into. I had no intention. I'd never heard of any of this in my life. And he goes, "Okay." sits me up and tells me and I see his chemist thing there with, you know, cooking things and smoke and things happening and I don't even know what's going on. Just the two of you in the room. Just the two of us. And he sets up like a bong and he tells me, "You're going to inhale and you're going to hold it forever." I'm like, "Okay, by the way, I'm loving this already. I'm already loving it." Go ahead. Go ahead. How's your energy level, by the way? [laughter] I am right now dialed in. Go ahead. It took us a while, but we got Yeah. Yeah. We I take that hit and I inhale and he puts his hand on my forehead and lays me back. And it was for and he tells me in the middle of whatever you're going to be going through, I'm going to tell you to take another hit. You're going to say no, but do it. The boss, I take the hit. He I feel him lean my head back and I remember my hands just falling out and I go into this dark black space and I just keep repeating the word nothing, nothing, nothing. Just kept letting go of every part of everything that I felt true and real. And I just kept repeating the word nothing, nothing, nothing. And just felt like no feet, no hands, no head, no body, just soul. You're not there's nothing. Everything, every ego part of us, every everything, every attachment is over. You're just in a place of zero. And at that point he started playing guitar and playing songs and all of a sudden colors and it looked like a kaleidoscope. You know the kaleidoscope where you look through and turn the colors and just different colors and just you're living in it. You're part of it. You're it. And then he told me if you see uh bright light just follow it. That's not usually what you're told, but yeah. Okay. I'd bail at this point. I'll be honest with you. I'd be like, "No, I'm out of here." You in the room. Yeah. But there's no bailing already. Was he doing the same thing you were doing or was he sober? He was sober. He was sober. So, he was giving you the experience and he was kind of leading you along. I'm sorry. What experiences? Can we know what what he's telling you? No. No. Go ahead. Go ahead. What? I don't know. No. He wants to know what it's called. Yeah. He wants to know name. What did I take? Yeah. What is it? Like, so I didn't know at the time. I knew nothing about But you're listening. You're following. Yeah. I'm I'm already deep in, right? And I'm seeing these colors and shapes and the most fascinating trip. Like I came out of it 15 minutes later. The end of it really creepy because to me again, everybody's trip is different and everybody's experience and no person has through the same trip. So everything is different. But to me it felt like you remember when we used to have to defrag our computers. Do you remember def fragmenting? We used to go to our C drive and there to clean it up. It would be a line like and you see a million lines and when you finish defragmenting they all pieces to one side and now your hard drive is much cleaner because we took all the bits and bits and pieces of information we consolidated them into one piece of the hard drive and now your hard drive works much better. I don't know if they still have it, but we used to have to defrag our computers every six months because computers just put randomly. Anyway, it's like cleaning out your Outlook. And that's what I felt was happening to my brain at the time as I was coming out of it. I just felt like like like a defrag of information. Everything I knew up until one point is being defragged. And now you have an open mind to like a fresh canvas brain. didn't take away from me any knowledge, didn't take away any experiences, but just gave me a fresh part of my brain to work with. And that's really what I felt like in the experience as it was happening. I wake up, he looks at me, he goes, "Happy birthday." What was that? He goes, "You just died and you came back. Happy birthday." How long was this whole experience? 15 minutes. 15 minutes, he says. And you peed in your pants. What? You're kidding me? Nope. It's that intense apparently. Okay. What was it? DMT. Oh, it's what they call the toad. It's like I don't know the highest level, but a very high level. By the way, was this person qualified? Did you trust this person or you just from random people? I trusted him 100%. So he knew what he was doing this person because he could have given you anything at that point. Correct. No, no, no. I knew the guy. I know his history. I know enough about him. Exposure to psychics. Was hello not knowing I was doing it. Smoking it. Inhaling 15minute experience. Peeing in your pants. Peeing in my pants. You ever did it again or there was one time for this one? There's no trip in the world from a trip perspective. Just as a trip. Wow. Ain't nothing like this. What else? I feel the same as I felt before. But okay. And that's it. So what's the About a week later? Oh, okay. About a week later, I'm driving on the Cross Bronx Expressway and I get this feeling like I'm in a snow globe. like I know the car that's going to come up on the side of me. I know the other car that's going to come almost and I'm starting to feel weird in there. And I call this guy like I think I'm starting to understand cuz it bothered me for a week. What's this happy birthday? You said happy birthday. That's a real thing. And it bothered me for a week that I wasn't feeling like it's my birthday. And he told me it'll take you a week or two. And it literally kicks in a week or two later when all of a sudden your brain says, "What was that?" For me, it took a good year to unpack, a good year to unpack. I touched no other psychedelics or anything during that full year of just what was that? What did I just experience? I couldn't go back and pray normally in Shul anymore. just going to shul to say words. I couldn't do it anymore. I'm like, there's so much more. If there's a connection and there's a way of letting go truly, and if prayer is what they say it is, which is letting go of my eye and just connecting and having a real thing, then I can't just go words and leave. That's wasting my time. I'm not interested. and I'd stop domining or I'd go to shul and I'd just meditate and I would do my own thing and I would just stand there quietly trying to get back some sort of that feeling of what I felt then and I'd used prayer a lot at the time to reconnect to that type of feeling. I knew I didn't want to go back. I didn't have a desire to do it again. I was scared to do it again. I respect it too much to do it a second time lightly from my perspective. Um, so and I knew there was so much to still unpack in in what I've seen and experienced in that one 15minute trip which was the world is all interconnected. You see the interconnection of everything and like we say connected to everything attached to nothing. We're attached to nothing. That first feeling of nothing, nothing, nothing was letting go of every attachment I thought I had or knew and who I was and what I am and just letting go of that. And that's that. And that's what he meant. When we die, same thing happens. And the more we're attached to who we think we are, our lowercase I, that's hell is letting go of that. And a lot of people do DMT experiences and cry terribly during those first couple of minutes letting go cuz it's so hard. It's ripping apart who you think you are. And they call it God's molecule because you're letting go and you're just experiencing that what we call in in in the the language mamish which is a part of godliness inside of literally literally not just theoretically that literal part of God inside us you get to experience in that experience. And was that the end of your journey of psychedelics or the beginning? That was the beginning and the end of DMT. Got it. Okay. So, what came next? About 4 months later, this same guy calls me and says, "I've been watching your journey and I think it's time for the next." I said, "You're my Is he building you for this?" No. No. He's just looking out for you. Just a friend. Okay. And this was me, another friend, and him. And he's all dressed in white, shaman all the way. And we come in there, he does sage, where he lights the wood and sages the room and it smells great. And I'm like, "Okay, what are we doing now?" He tells me I said, "Okay, tell me about it." He goes, "Finest stuff." He said, "Of course, only the best." And he's mixing teas and cooking up stuff. a chef. Now, yesterday was a chemist today. He said, "Chef," [snorts] he's cooking up and he gives me this glass and takes out some ginger. He tells me, "You're going to want this close right after you drink. It tastes like such crap that you're going to want to eat this real fast." And I said, "Okay, what's it going to do?" Whatever. You'll see. It's me and a buddy and him. And he drinks along in this guy. So that was a interesting question to ask like this time he was participating. Um and I drink one cup and we're all sitting on the floor and nothing. The other guy starts starts vomiting and starts, you know, crying and making noise and I'm like chilling. I got nothing. I tell the guy, dude, second round. Second round. Uno mouse. He brings me some more. He says, "You're not going to need more than that. It's 3:00 in the morning. I got nothing. Have to drink two cups of it." And you know, they call it in their language mother, mother earth. And it's all part of that thing. I said, "Mommy's not letting me in." [laughter] So, and I take one hit and I lay down and he starts singing uh ta and all of a sudden my traumas from my dad specifically all my negative feelings that I had for him for 45 years bubbled up and turned posit positive almost. I saw him, I understood him, I appreciated him crying and I started to vomit and vomiting and that whole feeling and I knew what it was. It was clear it was my relationship with my dad. And if you would have asked me what was the thing in my gut bothering me all the years, I would have said it was my mom's relationship. Wow. And in that but not in a negative way. It didn't it present itself as you know dad screwed you. It was he used every tool he had and he was the best dad in the world. But what you were missing was his recognition and his love. My relationship with my dad after that quadrupled in such a real way. I understood him in another way. The rest of the night I had a weird trip where I had this vision of it was right when the Ukraine war started and they were talking nuclear. So I had this vision of the whole world the first nuclear bomb going and then it's just a reaction from there, you know, where all the missiles are in the air at the same time and then the whole world goes kaboom. And then I was just meeting all my friends in that realm. [snorts] So that's where I was the rest of the night just chilling in that realm after the work event for how long did it take? So I'm telling you for me we started probably 10 11:00 at night but it didn't kick in for me till 3 4:00 in the morning and then by 7 8:00 I was home. So it's a whole night event generally right most people do it two or three nights in a row. When you go to the Amazon and you do it like they do it originally. It's usually a two or three night event where they serve multiple times. There's multiple people. Is it dangerous in any which way? I can't speak to that. I can't speak to the Has anybody had very adverse effects when they take an iwaska? When people go back for more and more like anything else, like any other thing, if you take chemo and you don't need it, you're going to die from the chemo. And if you take a lot of chemo and you don't, you're going to die very fast from the chemo. Is chemo dangerous? Is chemo, you know, it's like that. It's like any other drug that can be abused. So, you're comparing IASA to a medicine, right? Because Absolutely. It's it's referred to as plant medicine. Yeah. Um and that's why when it's used in its correct form, it's the most healing, but I've seen so much abuse of it by the shamans quote unquote pushing it for financial agendas. So, I have to ask, what led you then to wanting to do it? training a person listening to this podcast and understanding that someone like you who had such an interesting journey that went and did Iaska what are you telling them like when when should you consider potentially how do you know you're a candidate right exactly or iaska or when should stay away right when it's coming from a place of brokenness and you're looking to fill a void with any drug stay away if it's coming because I'm so at loss I don't know what to do it myself. That's going to just draw you in and you'll be back for more and more and more because you're not really fe healing yourself. So, what happened differently with you when I was on that journey doing my meditations, reading the books, try connecting to Rob Pinson before all of this. This gave me clarity and definitely jumpstarted and gave me, you know, rocket boosters in that whole mindset. More supplemental for him. It was more supplemental, like you say, um, rocket boosters, but it wasn't something I needed or wanted. That night after that Iawaska, I told my wife, I'm never doing that again. You did it once? One time. You would never do it again. I I would never say never, but I have no desire at this moment to do it again. I'm very So, it wasn't fun. It wasn't at all. It wasn't memorable in a way that wow, that was a good time. We had No. No. The first thing I would tell you was the best trip ever. And if there's somebody, if there was one thing I would do, no, I'm scared of it. I respect it too much. I know what it's done for me with one. And it's really given me like that that clean slate, you know, to be able to listen and not try to fit everything I hear into those visions and feelings that I had growing up and judge every single thing that we hear. Does this fit into my my little box or does this not fit into my box? So, who do you recommend should be do? Who's the perfect candidate for this? What stage of your life at what point if somebody who's very connected and somebody who feels very good about themselves? This could enhance them like who is this for then? Who should be doing? Because I feel like there's a lot of generic people that are just doing this. I feel like they're doing it as an exercise or as like an hobby. They just want to have a good time. It should not be done recreationally. Not be done recreationally. should not be done recreationally. It should be done by people who are searching for more and feel like they're stuck in any which way. Go to somebody that's good that knows that will follow up with you afterwards. Biggest problem is that people are serving all over town whether it's Williamsburg, Monroe, Lakewood, they're being they call it serving in in in other drug language they call it dealing. Here they call it serving. But there are people serving in every from community that we have now everywhere including Israel everywhere it's being served to groups and groups of hey Misha and of people every single week. Michael we know someone we know someone who does this I think once a quarter. They do it four or five times a year they do this and they do it with a big group of people. They do it with like 20 people in the room and it's a two-day event. It's not a night thing just for one night. It's for two days and they swear by it. And and living a very healthy lifestyle. Exactly. And they're searching for constant journey of if you're searching for more in a question because that's sort of what I was asking. Who's the right candidate for this? If you're in a place in your life where your cup is fairly full, meaning you're not out there, you could have your other vices. We all have our other vices to fill our other void. This is not a void filler. If you're looking to fill a void with this, stay away because it'll just suck you in and you'll be there and then you're just going to become a real weirdo because you go into this trip and you you leave this world. But if you're a healthy human being and you're searching for more and you feel like in your DNA, you're somewhat stuck at a plateau where I can't see more than this. I can't see more than myself. I can't see more than my dayto-day. I can see that there's a capital I that when I do a mitzvah and I'm putting on and it's my lower case on behalf of my capital and understand that there is a capital and that when we're doing things from spiritual practices that it's on behalf of a greater cause and I want to learn more about that and I have a class that I go to that teaches me and this is an add-on like you were saying. Yes. Yes. But also helps you deal with trauma. Of course, that's when it'll all come out. But if you're [clears throat] drilling from trauma to deal from trauma because you're as a therapist, I'm not qualified to talk which people that need therapy and which people it would benefit for. I don't know. It's a great background. I just finish up this part of your journey if you don't mind because you you took it. It was an experience. You never did it again. What changed everything? my vision of allowing things to unfold and realizing that everything is perfect at every moment and if I don't see it now I will that like we said connected to everything attached to nothing tomorrow we can move away from each other because like the kaleidoscope it always comes back those circles that spin they dis you know disconnect for a period of time but they come back and that's really life and really seeing the interconnectivity of everything was really mindblowing for me. Those colors, those shapes to me were really the interconnectivity of everything and seeing the perfectness of the Hashem, of the one God in the world and the unity of the one God and seeing how the birds and the flowers are really one thing because without birds you wouldn't have fl without bees you wouldn't have flowers and without flowers you wouldn't have bees and realizing that systems like that are really one and you keep going wider and wider with that. there's no end. And that was the experience I experienced. That was the feeling I felt and that's the experience I took out of it. Good for you. Good for you, Ze. Uh it's beautiful. I think this uh really brings it all together. It explains a little bit now more I have more clarity as to how you got here. And number one, you had a lot of experiences. I think that is very important. You can't learn from things if you don't have those moments. You've had those moments. And you also were strong enough to not let those moments shut you down. You actually built on them. You accepted them and you took everything and connected it all and you learned a lesson from it and then you followed it and you actually did it and you're executing on it and you had the you know a lot of people would be blind to it and they wouldn't be and they'd be miserable about it and they would complain about it and then they would actually go into an escalation into a darker hole and go further and further. you're in a place where you're actually going to you can talk to other people about it and help them and you're in a much better place for it and that's very commendable. I'm very impressed and I really appreciate you sharing your story here. I know it's the first time you've ever done this publicly. It really is and um I people in my circles and in many other circles are always talking about psychedelics. People are experiencing it. I am not shy about the fact that I go to therapy and I ask my therapist about it and it's a discussion. Huh? I have to say I've actually flown to Mexico to watch the experience of Iawaska because I was interested in it, but I decided it's not true. Oh, I'm actually curious. Yeah. Is this something that you would uh Well, I usually say yes to almost everything the first time. So, I'm not saying that I'm opposed to it, but I've never Are you Are you ready to wet your pants? Have you tried Shrooms? Maybe we should get him a Medline diaper perhaps. [laughter] Oh, by the way, second time when I did the iOS, he made me he he sent me to to Walgreens. Go pick up yourself diaper. You wore your second cup. Yeah. And and [laughter] back. And and I wore it all night. I have a picture of myself wearing the diaper. Please share that with us. Absolutely. We'll put that out there. I want to tell you, there's so much that we did not cover that I would love to another time. I know that you're you you're very deep rooted spiritually. You wake up early in the morning, you go to the park, you dive in, you know, at the first opportunity you can in the most amazing car available to men around the world, which is Arlommo. credit to them. Um, this was amazing. I It was it was a good experience just listening to your experience and uh we're learning a lot. It's the first time I ever heard the description of Iawaska explained so eloquently and now I have a better understanding of what it is. I think she you and I should explore this topic more with other people in the future. I think people would be interested. I know that I am. I've I saw how Stephan was looking and listening to the story. There's no camera on me, but my mouth was wide open. [laughter] just staring at each going whoa. We didn't take Iawaska today, but we experienced a little piece of it as you were describing it. It needs it needs its own podcast in out of respect for it. It needs its own conversation. I do want to mention it's not it's not you know we touched on it. I'm not uh professional. I don't give opinions. I do want to mention talking about my own experience from from that experience. I I've I've been on the journey also for a while of uh you know spiritual growth, emotional growth, physical, mental and all that. Um there are different levels just like you said you've tried DMT. There's breathing exercises that you could do. Can I tell you about that please? [laughter] I heard about this as well and that's at a minimal without ingesting anything you can go to a place of saying there there are things that people should consider Klein has Meny and Fi his wife also does it for the women and Meny does it for the men greatest couple greatest guy and he text me we're doing a breathing group in my would you join sure I'll try anything um we come there the most interesting group of people very superish a non-Jew doctor sitting right on the mat next to me some contractors I have to edit that out I don't think we should [laughter] point out people that went to a it's just breathing fine it's fine it's just breathing it's just breathing it's fine he's happy he he tells everybody okay don't okay [laughter] edit this part out anyway I'm laying there and he starts with okay breathe and you go Hey, 10 15 minutes and you know he has music on and keep the rhythm and it's about the rhythm. Never let the exhale and the inhale stop. Just keep that rhythm going and all and he says and and when I tell you to tone it just means go uh what are you talking about? But okay. Anyway, he's doing it and doing it and oh, a group of 15 people I hear people start crying, crying and crying and while they're doing the breathing and they're making noises, weird noise. And then he'll scream at this guy, David tone. And you go, uh, and he'll stop screaming like he was. And I'm breathing again. Nothing. And all of a sudden, I start laughing. my and God's laugh to to the extent that every time somebody cried, I burst out. But it wasn't a natural laugh. It was it was something else. It was a new laugh that you never laugh that I never laughed before at myself and at them for crying and at Mendy for facilitating this whole thing and at the whole myy was just laughing at. Is that normal? people laugh from this. You go into your deepest place. And at that point, I guess I was laughing deeply inside. And that laugh that I had during a breath work ceremony was the best laugh I've ever had. Breath work really. It's a real thing. But it usually takes people the other way. To me personally, I had the funniest experience. And then I went back to him to do it privately one time, just one-on-one breathing session, same thing. I got nowhere nowhere to know about your experience of a book. So it was right after I had sold my company and money was free you know there was money in the bank account for the first time you know when was it massive money 2015. Okay. So you s what kind of company did you have that you sold? It was BSD Care. It was a medical equipment company selling two nursing homes. Oh interesting. So you sold that company to who? Twin Med. Oh wow. In California. Oh twin. So do they still have this company? Did they keep it active or they just like merging in with Twin Med? They over four or five years they blended it in with another company that they purchased as well. Wow. Was it like a public sale or was this like behind closed doors? No, it was very public. We switched our name from BSD Care to Twinet at the time. Was there an amount that was exposed? Do people know how much the seal was? It wasn't exposed. No. So, how much was it? Do people know or some people know? The people that benefited from it obviously know lamely the lawyers. [laughter] Can I give a number? Can I give one? I'm not going to expect you to tell us exactly how much the sale was, but can I give one number and you just say higher or lower? Absolutely. I can do that. Absolutely. Okay, now the pressure is on. You better pick a good one. I better I have to go reasonable. Like I I don't think you sold it for $100 million. I think we would all know about that if you did. Um, so I'm going to go I'm going to go 12.5 million. I like that number. Great number. Less. Okay. But Okay. So, less than 12 1/2. Okay. So, it wasn't generational wealth that you sold your company for, but you sold it for a nice chunk of change. And what was your plan when you were selling this company? What were you going to do? Did you have nothing going on at the time? You're like, I'm just going to settle down this money and passively invest it or did you like go back into another line? like what was your plan after you sold it? At the time the plan was to stay on with them. Um Twin Med was looking to grow out this the division of their company. To me it was quick cash in the bank. Um with consistent income coming in. We had a great employment agreement going forward. It worked out well and we did well together for three years, three and a half years which at that point it became too much. And everybody had told me ahead of time, Zeh, if you last 18 months, you'll be lucky. Um, we actually did three and a half years, we did very well. And well, was it a one sum like a lump sum that they paid you or was it over time that they were still buying you out? It was split into payments. The initial 80% was lump sum. The last 20% or don't quote me on the numbers, but it 25% was an earnout. So long as we hit specific numbers as we went over the next 18 months, I believe it was. And every six months we we got paid. You got that 80%, you first thing you did was buy a boat. I'm very curious. Pretty much. And a car. And a car. What did you get? Range Rover Sport SVR red seat. Wow. Loved it. White. Wow. Very important. You bought it cash. You paid it out. Yeah, they didn't lease those. They didn't release the They only made 212 of them. Oh, wow. In the world that year. So, it was a limited edition. It was a limited edition. Zack Schuel, best car dealer. His office was next door to mine at the time. He called me literally on a Friday afternoon. We had signed the docks on Friday morning. He called me Friday Z. I have this crazy car just came in. Yes. [laughter] Were you actively looking to sell your company at the time or did it fall on your lap like somebody approached you, thought about it? No, they approached us. We were not looking to sell at the time. We were actually cash flow positive. And if you'd asked me today, was it a mistake? Am I glad about my next question? Obviously, um, you know, I don't regret anything in life. So, I don't ever look back at anything and say, "Oh, no. For X, Y, and Z, things would be different." You don't regret anything in life? Zero. Because you've taught yourself not to regret or because you truly don't regret things. cuz I truly don't regret every single thing that I've experienced as a negativity in my life. Whatever it was, 99% of them by now once you're 5 years removed from that you say, "Oh gosh, thank God for that day. If not for that day, my worst day then was my best day. Really, if I look at it and then when you manage to pull that five years to four years, then to three years, then to two years, and realize you're going to say it in five years anyway." 99% of the things that happened, negative experiences in your life, you can look back to today and say, "I experienced it at negative at the time. It was painful." Not taking away from the pain at the time. Definitely painful. But today, thank God that happened cuz where would I be today if not for that extremely painful lifechanging thing that shook my world and my very essence and my core? And at the time, I thought that was it. M looking back five years later we say thank God we were removed from that situation by force kicking and screaming generally but thank God. So when you can move that years and keep moving it closer to the now and saying so if I'm experiencing pain now and I know in five years I'm going to say this was a great day. If I can say it now, that's taking every experience and and turning it into the positive. Yeah, that's not easy to do, but uh I certainly hear what you're saying and uh it's I think it's a great way to look at things, a really good way to look at things. I find it's the first thought in the morning, the first initial thought, the maidani before negasa. That first thought, you watch navasa every morning next to your bed? No, not yet. [laughter] Did you ever do that at any point in your life? Yeah, sure. when you were 13 years old. When I was 13 years old and my yamama would fall. Do people in general do that today? Like do you think adults have nagas next to their bed? Because supposedly that is something that you're supposed to do. That's like not an option. That's that's mandatory. But I I don't know how many people practice that. It's something to strive for. It's something that you'd want to do. It doesn't mean you have to do it today. It mean something you're bringing it up. So it's obviously a thing in your mind. It is. It really wasn't. just you brought it up now and now you're last time I heard that word but now that I'm hearing it just so you know we've been asked in the past to describe it we have a lot of non-Jewish listeners I want to say and people have asked us to describe when we ever said we say something Jewish to describe what it is um so what you guys are discussing is when you wake up in the morning it's important to rid yourself of that bad spiritual omen perhaps is the easier bad juju bad juju is a a small part of you is truly dead, right? And that's impure. Okay? Like a dead body is an impure thing, right? So when you sleep, they say you're one sixth of being dead. So therefore, you're in an impure state and you have to wash yourself with water to wash your hands, right? Wash your hands. Exactly. Wash your hands to purify yourself. First thing you do when you wake up, you roll over and on the floor you have prepared for. What we were taught is to have a bucket with a cup, right? But what we do is we go to the sink. We walk to the sink and we just wash our hands. There are many people that have it next to their bed. I want to tell you not I don't know any of them but um I do rent out an apartment I have in Israel and whenever I go there there's tons of buckets and washing cups everywhere I go. I've gone to aidic weekend in a hotel and when you check in you know you get your bag your goodie bag of for the weekend. Yeah. There were piles of these hundreds of these. Every single kid, man, woman, everybody took their what we call negleing cup. Washing cup and basin to have it at their bedside. I even saw they came out with a new patent on it. They have one that doesn't spray back when you pour. So, it has like this really cool bottom that's Oh, you're saying so the the impure water doesn't jump back on. Right. Because usually when you're pouring your half your cotton, everything gets wet next to you. So they figured out a way to stop the splash. This reminds me of a joke by the way. I do this once a podcast usually. I call it a joke and usually just later in the podcast now it's just triggering me a little. That's a good sign. It's a very good sign. So I apologize that it's so soon but I have to say it. So in high school, you know the teenagers, the boys are always teasing each other, right? So one boy took his uh the the nagalaser cup, right? The wash cup, filled it with water and he went and he poured it on another boy and made him all wet and he was really upset. He was really mad. So he wanted to he wanted to get him back. So he goes quickly. He fills up a cup of water and starts running after him. And the boy's running away. And as he's running away, he yells back. He says, "Nama, nama, you're not allowed to do revenge." In the Jewish tradition, you can't do revenge. He said, "No, no, no, no. This is a new fight. I'm starting a new fight now. This is nothing to do with the old spot. I'm starting a new one." That's what it is, right? Good. That's good. By the way, that's a nice concept. Not doing revenge on someone. That's very hard to do. my instinct, everything, every every fiber in my body, like when someone does something to me, um I feel like I have to respond. I feel like I immediately have to go right back at them, like I can't let things slide. And I think that it's a struggle for a lot of people. And this is one of the things in our religion. I think that is one of the more difficult things to do is to get to a place where you don't feel the need to always respond to people. You can let something you can swallow something and take the bullet, bite the bullet, and not respond back. Very difficult thing to do. I really suck at this. This is for me one of my big big challenges. For example, we were in a restaurant, Michael, uh a couple days ago. You weren't there actually. Uh we had a company meeting there and uh we were at a table and we were like six or seven people and we were being a little bit rowdy, but not disrespectfully rowdy. We were just having a good time, you know, talking amongst each other and somebody walked over at our table and asked us if we could quiet down and said, "You're disturbing my meal. Can you please take the Michael? We've had that mother take down the phone to see his response we've had. Now, it happens to me. We were just finishing up. We were literally ready to leave anyway. In a minute or two, we were leaving. So, but I was burning inside. I was like, who does this guy think he is? How dare him coming over to me in a restaurant in a public place where this is not a library. This is what it's for. It's for people to come together, eat good food, and talk and have a good time. And he's coming to me to tell me to be quiet. Who is it? And I immediately thought like, how am I going to respond to this? And and I said, you know what? I I actually didn't respond at all. I said, okay, no problem. Yeah, we're actually leaving in a couple of minutes. And that was that. But when I walked out of the restaurant, I turned to my know, I really want to go back inside and I really want to go tell him something. I really want to go understand like where he was coming from. Like what did you mean? I wanted to do that. Did you? I didn't. All right. Can we Can we make believe I'm that person? Because I want to defend that person. You want to defend that person? Of course. I want to ask you one question. By the way, a couple months ago, there was an influencer who was in a restaurant and there was there had a baby at like 9:30, 10:00. And this couple doesn't have babies, trying to enjoy dinner. And this couple that bought the baby, he just whailing, just can't stop crying. The other couple got out of there. What are you doing? We're trying to eat your Why did you bring your baby? Could you just leave? Maybe I don't. I'm just curious what you done with she Well, it depends. If you go into a high-end restaurant, like a reserve, [laughter] this was a high-end restaurant. It was a high-end restaurant. This wasn't like going to castle. This was going to You bring a baby? Yeah. It's frowned upon. It's not proper etiquette to bring a baby to a high-end restaurant. Okay. So, you were that baby wailing. No, no, but this wasn't that kind of restaurant. This was a cafe. This was not a high-end restaurant. It was a small We were in Aldila. Okay. We're in Alila. So, in Aldi, it's a smaller room, so everybody can hear everything. It's not a cafe. It's a cafe. It's a little bit of a higherend cafe. It's a little bit of a higher end. Aren't all cafes like a little bit high-end restaurant doesn't make it a cafe. By the way, they would be very regardless if you were in a Starbucks, you'd also be expected to be quiet. So, regardless, at the end of the day, if you want to make noise, go to a private room. They don't have private rooms. So, then don't go to that restaurant or or just don't scream. It's an issue. It's a challenge. Imagine you had an anniversary with something special to go to a nice restaurant and you're sitting there and then there's five guys talking business. They're laughing and screaming. Uh, by the way, I could not disagree more. I think you're way off on this. I think you're absolutely crazy because the bottom line is when you go to a restaurant, there's no rules and regulations about how high or how low I can speak. Excuse me. You come over to my table to tell me to be quiet. Tell me how low I should speak. Like what my acting level should be. Mind your own business. Let's Let's get into who the eye is. Who's Who's the eye that All right, Ze. Let him have it. I he said something to you. So initism there's something called histavas equinimity. Equinimity is the idea that you can't insult me and you can't compliment. Uh my cup is so full with who I am and I'm so confident in myself that your compliments mean absolutely nothing and therefore your insults mean absolutely nothing. Every time somebody is sharing a compliment or an insult with you, they're just sharing how they feel inside. It has zero to do with you really. Who's the eye that he's talking to? I should be quiet. Let's let's define who that eye is because that's where we get stuck in really thinking that that eye is maybe bigger or or or greater. I'm not talking about I myself. I'm representing anybody that goes to a restaurant. We got that. But that's anybody that says something to somebody else and triggers a negative response. It could be a guy shushkinning somebody in shul in the middle of laning which is the f the worst the worst by the way those guys supersede this guy correct that guy's worse than this guy in the red I'll agree with you on that sudden self-righteousness the worst the worst game of negative energy pingpong gets started who you just tell me to shut you that back and forth negative energy from one shishka middle of the what did you call it a shishka shushka oh that's a a person does shh in a in a I didn't know it's called a shishka Somebody shushkas you. You never heard that term? No. Someone shushes you. You're over 40 years old. Shushes you. You're over 40 years old. Shushka. You've never heard that term? You never either heard that term? No. Never. I may have made it up, but yeah, I heard a pushka, right? A pushka. Interesting. Um, so what is that a knee-jerk response when somebody shushka us and that knee-jerk response of who are you to tell me what to do? Where do you come off? Where do you come off? Where do you come off telling me to be quieter in a restaurant? You're telling me you're you're you're touching my eye, my capital I, my lowercase I. Whoever I perceive myself as at this moment, you're touching that somehow. And therefore, I have a knee-jerk reaction. I need to respond to that. So, first let's decide what's that. What's he touching? He is there always a wrong there's there's we have to does there always have to be that concept the conceptual eye that you're trying to say right now could it be that sometimes it's really not about what you're saying about me looking at who who are you have to now ask yourself that question could it be that there really is a right and a wrong between two people and the person that's saying you shouldn't be doing this isn't necessarily just making it him about himself it's not because he has an eye problem it's because it really is wrong and that other person is is that other person is the problem. Could it be that that other person really is the problem? Absolutely. But before we go over to that person, if we would ask ourselves three times, is this because it's bothering me or because there's a right or wrong. That's what I'm trying to do. Because we can all tell ourselves stories about what's right or wrong and convince ourselves really fast. And it's just a story we just told ourselves above a situation. You were sitting there having a good time with a group of guys that just was that just is a situation. Another guy grow comes in with another group of friends. He's so excited that there's another group of guys making noise. He can make noise with his friends. He's so excited that there's a group of guys like you in there. I could walk in there with Michael join you guys. We're so excited to see another guy walks in and is trying to have dinner and is having a miserable time. What's the truth of the matter? If you just strip it down, no egos. What's the truth? Is it a beautiful situation? Me and Michael walked in there. We were thrilled. We love the situation that's and the vibe and the energy. Another guy walks in and he's miserable. He comes over to you. Please lower it. What's the truth truth truth of the situation? Is it a beautiful situation or is it a miserable situation? It's neither. It just is. You're asking me to. It's it's it's you're overlaying a story over the situation and he's overlaying a story over I hear you're asking me to be a little bit more compassionate, a little bit more understanding that perhaps this gentleman was having a really bad day. Not even not even I'm telling you that he's telling himself a story about the situation and he's sharing the story that he's telling himself with you and now you're taking that and saying I have to respond to that. I do have to respond. Let me I don't regret that. I I actually regret that. Let me clarify. If you're going out to a restaurant, you're making noise and everyone's making noise and the music is loud, that's normal. I if I know I'm making noise, I go a restaurant this loud. But anyways, Zish, uh, 10 years ago, you would not have spoken like this. I just I I I want to say that 10 years ago, Zeish, that I know would have been right on Oshi's side. So, I'm curious what happened. 10 years ago, I was at a friend's Vaknak in Bar Park smoking a cigarette. Explain, Michael, what Vaknak is. It's the night before the kid gets circumcised inside cuz I was a big shot doing my thing and the baby was in the hall and some older guy comes over and he goes, "You're smoking in the hall." I'm like, "Mind your own business." Same same knee-jerk reaction. I was so wrong at the time looking back now. But at the time, who are you to tell me what to do? It's a big room. What? What changed was a series of life events, you know, that I've gone through personally, financially, um, real roller coasters in my life that were resetting. They gave me an opportunity of a 2.0 that very few people actually have the ability to. Once we start off our life to switch gears in middle and make radical change, very difficult and you become weird. But when you go through any type of, you know, traumatic event in your life, everybody gets it. Oh, 2.0 makes sense. And you get a chance to be whoever you want to be in that one cuz our 1.0 though is driven by at 8 days old they give us a name and that's the name we carry. We don't choose it. And then from then on, they tell us which school we're going to and what we're expected and what's expected of us until we get to some point in life, we say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm just being guided." Very rarely do we have the opportunity to say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me make a change here in my life." Because we got in the religious community when it goes from high school to studying abroad, coming home expecting to get married, doing your thing, there's no time in there to stop and adjust. Hey, where do I really want to be? And that's how I found in my life. I'm not talking for everybody. Um to really re-evaluate and say, is this where I want to be fully? And is this where I'm expressing myself fully? Is my light shining here fully? We don't get to. I was 5 years and five children in before I got to turn around and say, "One second, this system itself is a beautiful wonderful system I'm living in, but it just doesn't work for me." and being able to walk away from that and it re with the greatest respect for it and say, you know what, but I'm going to have to find my own way because I've tried this for 35 years, 40 years, and it's now working for me. I don't find myself like Michael, you asked me 10 years ago, I wasn't. I was at my worst stage. I was seeking to fill every void with every negative vice I can find. Um came a point where I said if this continues I'm going to be dead and I'm worthless to everybody dead. So unless I do something very very radical I'm going to I'm worthless. Um at that point is when I moved out of Brooklyn um moved on from my previous marriage. Um I can say today without it's five years later without one minute of drama bar learning a brisk for those that care. Um but in the Ivy League schools in the system that they're in. Yeah. Um doing phenomenally well in that. um we can talk about that part of my life but generally when those types of things happen at that same exact time when I've made that very very difficult decision at that point to make that change tremendous business it was few years after I had sold my business I was doing well at the time I walked away from my marriage with my hands up and just said you know keep everything your everything I'm just going to excuse myself you left her everything everything. So the cash, the house, whatever assets you had, all of it. All of anything other than the actual equities in the businesses I own. Everything else. I have to tell you, I've been in involved in people that have been getting divorced and I've asked people to speak to you and I've heard you say this in the past and I'm I'm proud to call you a friend and say the following comment that when men and women go through the challenge of a divorce and a lot of it has to do with money, your philosophy that I've heard you say is give. Just give, give, give and move on and you'll get back what's meant for for if you want to keep your ex miserable, stay married. Yeah, makes it's much cheaper. That's a great line. By the way, that's why he had very little drama is because of that approach. Of course. Of course. That's the reason why. And I've I've heard you tell this to people and I've I've seen people not listen to you and create tremendous drama where the kids get affected by it. And it's possible if your ex is happy, your children are happy, you're happy. Your ex is miserable. Your children are miserable, you're miserable. It's every single time. You'll never see that train late. Wow. ever. Did you uh when you decided you and your ex-wife that you were getting divorced, were you both on the same page about that? Like you knew it was time or was it one more than the other? Not fully. She wasn't fully on board like I was at the time. Um however, we've been to multiple therapists and and so you tried put the effort in to try to keep and then did you tell your children one by one? Did you bring them all into a room at the same time? How did you deliver the message? So I had decided that I was going to move out of the house after Pesa. So I had gotten a apartment in Flapos couple blocks away from them. I had rented a apartment. I'd gotten the furniture, pictures, hung them on the wall of all my kids, showed them the apartment, brought each one of them to the apartment beforehand, and as a family with my ax, we all went to Orlando for Pesa. All of them knowing that when we come home, Tati's not coming home. He's going to move into what we call the DRA. And Tati is going to move to the DRA, and everybody else is going to move home. But this is our pesak together. So like a final final outing and it was the most beautiful yanta and everybody knew. Wasn't a sad environment. It wasn't. It wasn't. It was actually a very positive environment. We w we had all the meals, the sedar, everything together. And everybody knew that when we come home, Tati's going to the dra. How old was your oldest at the time? 20. Oh, old. So, so they knew exactly what was going on. Yeah. Yeah. And how old was your youngest? Five. Okay. And then you had uh four in between. Three in between. Three in between. Wow. So, in hindsight, just just goes back to what you said in the very beginning, not having regrets, is that everything including the negative things that happened in your life is a part of who you've become. It's all a cultivation of ending up where you are today. These were all stepping stones to where you ended up landing. So, that's why you don't have regrets. But I, you know, it's hard to imagine a thing like this, which must have been so difficult for you at the time. Getting divorced is always challenging, but when you have kids then, five kids is a lot of kids. And it's got to be really tough. It's got to be so tough. And Zish, you're one of the most positive people I know in general. Like, I don't even know the side of your story. I'm learning about this now, and I'm very intrigued. I have a lot more questions. And you're very open about it, which is which was amazing. But you are in general somebody who smiles a lot. You laugh a lot. always have a joke to say to everyone and you you have a lot of pain in your past. You have a lot and you've overcome it. I'm I'm very impressed. I'm really impressed with you and this I'm take I'd love to take a page out of your book. I'd love to really get get in sync with whatever it is that you're doing and other people should as well. Other people should take away from this. You're you're a guy that's you've had struggles. You've had real struggles. Let's move past the divorce for a second. I want to get back to it soon, but the divorce was one real painful part for you in your past. What else? What's another thing that was very hard for you? We can get into the history of how it started and but fresh fish distribution cup. H I rented a warehouse that was an old mechanic's garage, redid it, created prep rooms and walk-in freezers and walk-in fridge refrigerators. Bought trucks, leased machines, wrapping machines. And I found two guys, one from two different companies, put them together, said, "You guys have been doing this for 20 years each. You guys want to do this together?" "Sure, let's do this." They started off with $4 million in sales. They each had millions of their connection. And it was great. It was first week I'm in there. Other than it stunk so bad, other than this, my car had fish scales on the bottom when I walked out of the prep room. Always always has a strong stench. But I'm walking in the prep room and I see cases and boxes and orders, 30 orders. You know, every restaurant, every cater, every, you know, groceries everywhere. They were pounding fish years. This is going on about three, four years. Um, I got the bars. I used to be there every morning at 5:00 in the morning. It was around the corner from my house. It was on Locust Avenue on East 15th Street. And I used to be there every morning. I got remarried and moved to my stopped coming in as much. And one day I look at the bank two weeks, not even two weeks after I got remarried and moving in living in Muny and I see there's no deposits in the bank. Every day there's deposit the bank one day, two day. And I ask one of the partners. I say, "Hey, no deposits." He goes, "Oh, they were. We deposited a different account. I had to put in almost $2 million. Um, three and a half, four years in. Yeah. Read to my lawyer. Oh, stop it. Over the phone, read to my lawyer. And then I speak up there and I'm like, this is everything's in my name. Like the lease is in my name and a pri, you know what's going on here? We don't need you anymore. um you're out. I was 60% owner. I gave them each 20% at the time and you're out and if you want here's my lawyer. I call my lawyer and I'm like, "Uh, what's going on?" We go to a conference with their lawyer and my lawyer walks out and says, "Ze, what's the minimum you going to take you would take to walk away from this whole thing?" I'm like, "That's a bio." I'm like, "You're fired." Right. I don't know you. That as my lawyer, that's the question you have for me. I said, "We're not fighting. We're not going to kill them. We're not going to destroy already settling the first." You're asking me in my first question. He goes, "We can go the other way, but I'm asking you a question." And I had one friend and I literally fired him at the time and I walked away and I said, "I'm going to go get myself another attorney. This makes no sense. Me? Me?" I took them literally off the streets and built a company. My own beer hands. We're doing four or five million in sales a year now. And now what? And until I had a friend come over friend and he tells music, I have one piece of advice for you. Your best win at the end is going to be worse than your worst settlement today. Whatever you anticipate, your best win at the end of the game, whatever you're gonna get at the end is going to be worse than your worst settlement that you wouldn't think of doing today. Just walk away. I said from $2 million. Walk away. Walk away. Ze, if you figured out how to make it once, you'll figure out how to make it again. Walk away from what? I mean, this the store is in your name, right? You're figured out how to wrap it up. At that point, it was right in the beginning of COVID when this all hit. They had just gotten a hundred grand um whatever COVID money first thing or whatever. That actually hit that account. I told them, I'm sending you a document. I'm taking this 100 grand as payment and I know nothing. Everything else is on you moving forward. Thank god they ended up moving out of that building. It was actually a friend of mine who owned it and was a landlord. I was really nervous about that for 2 years until that lease was over that they continued paying and they did. So I haven't heard a lot of, you know, backlash from that company after I walked away. Thank God cuz that was really what I was most nervous about. I still get calls every time the trucks are in an accident cuz the Are they still in business this company? I believe so. Now let me ask you something. Do you think it had something to do with the fact that you moved to my finger on the pulse? I mean, you could have caught something like this was brewing perhaps a little earlier if you were there in person a lot. 100%. It was because of the distance, right? And they knew they could. Yeah. And they knew I wasn't in a position at that mode to fight them. I wasn't going to court. I just finished my divorce a couple of months earlier. I wasn't starting that whole game over. Right. Right. They knew they had me where they wanted me. Yeah. Michael, we know someone. We have a mutual friend who had a business that he started 100% started the business. No one debates that. And he brought in a few other people to help him manage and operate the company. And this is going on for many years. They were getting along. This person that started the company, our friend, owned majority of the company. And the other individuals had similar to your situation. They had a smaller piece in the company. And after a certain amount of years, they basically came to our friend and they strongarmed them and they said, "Look, we get it. It's your company. You invested all the money in the beginning." And however, at this junction, we don't need you anymore. So, what we could do is we could walk away and start our own company the same as this company, start our own company. They already knew the clients a lot better. They had the relationships because they were operating the business for a while. Right now, this person didn't see it coming. He didn't see. He got hit like a freight truck. He got hit with this. And you know what he did? He actually caved and he ended up giving them more percent in the company. He diluted himself to basically nothing. And for that prize, they kept him on and said, "All right, we're okay with you making still a sliver even though, you know, we're going to continue to run the company." And that's what happened. Now what I told this person was I said what your mistake was that you thought that this was going to last forever this arrangement where you are a majority owner in this company and they're doing all the work I get it you started it you put your blood sweat and tears into it for many many years that's all very nice but people forget those things it's all about what have you done for me lately not what have you done for me 10 years ago they're coming into work every day they're running the business going to be a time that's going you should have seen this coming that eventually they're not going to like this arrangement anymore and they're going to circumstances change and they want to change deal and he's he's he actually has no regrets. He said, "No, no." I said, "I think what they did was disgusting and I would never change it. I would never offer them anything more." I don't know about that. I disagree. I think you should have given them where give them more percentage. So, this way you could keep a lot more than you ended up keeping. And maybe they would have had that would have been more palatable for them. They wouldn't have taken you all the way down to the number you you ended up getting down to if you would have done it, right? So, that's kind of where where my head was at. So interesting because now that I've just done a round of VC funding, the most fascinating part that I find is the most astute investors want to make sure that the highest caliber employees are properly incentivized and own equity and they before they'll invest, they want to see the employees stock pool. showing me who has what in the install stock pool, who's valued to who that everybody's aligned. And that's so super. And when you're running a small business and you start your own business, like I had with my fish business and this guy with his business, you know, it's very hard with the percentages and where do you go? when I've had it in my previous business also where I started it fully myself and brought on another guy who was making $500 a week and ended up when I sold the company with a big chunk. Was I happy about it? I was happy to give him but being held over the barrel to give it. Nobody likes that. Nobody likes that. Yeah. So really figuring out a way to do be open and upront but it never works because eventually one guy starts doing more work than the other one wants more percentage all my employees when I first hired them in this company I said no equity there's no I don't want to hear from equity I've been burnt a h 100red times with equity you own nothing every single guy that came to me goes all your employees will own pieces of the company if you're a SAS-based your entire value is this and that really helps with this problem. Yeah. I think the biggest thing is when it comes to partnerships, everybody has to have an equal share. That those are the only partnerships that lasts. The ones where one partner has 1% another partner has another. It starts now going into a battle of who's doing more work should I be getting more percent and that starts going. You can't do an equal English. You do then you don't do a partner. No, you do a fair share. I'm a big fan of partnerships. the guy that started the company and brings on the partners I think guy the one who put let's say the original blood sweat and tears should get like very small difference but you know possibly yeah sure that that can that can work those are outliers you know someone starts a company and he but when it starts getting the gap starts getting a little far one person owns 80 one person owns 10 one person owns 10 those are always going to be tricky situations something is going to it's just not going to end well partnerships are tough enough as is partnerships are so difficult ult two people having to get along and there's money involved. I mean money is the thing that really gets between families. It gets between friendships. It gets between the strongest relationships. Divorce usually comes the number one reason comes from financial distress. Financial distress is usually the cause of it all. I mean countries that aren't prospering struggle when they don't have money in the bank. It's a big problem. So that's already enough of an issue. You're going to add to it now by bringing feelings into the equation. That's another thing. I'm making 20, he's making 30. I think I do more than him. I think my value is more than that person making 30. Suddenly, you become animosity starts playing a role. And when there's toxicity in your partnerships and people feel like that, oh my god, that's the end all be all. There's nothing to go from here. It's you cut it off at the end. There's no worse feeling than walking into your office and your energy dropping instantly because a partner of yours is just there. Yep. There's no worse feeling in the world. I will tell you guys um I have a lot of experience with this. Employees have something that they have annual reviews and I believe and I suggest all partners in every facet in life should have the same thing. They should have business partnership reviews. How's it going? Are we doing our fair share? And is everybody happy? In marriage too. In marriage [laughter] it should be a day it should be a daily thing. But uh we're not accountability [laughter] for the husband and wife. If you take out the garbage on Wednesday, spread around who's doing what around here. Yeah. Yeah. Who whose checkbook is owned by who? Exactly. Ze, you you went from healthcare to fish and now you're back in healthcare. Um, one of the things that we started doing on the none of your business podcast, by the way, is that every month we feature a healthc care uh guest and uh that goes out in our newsletter and we promote it. You're our featured monthly healthcare person. And so I do want to talk about that for a minute because you went from healthcare to fish and I know there was a journey to get you back into healthcare but what are you doing now and tell us a little bit about that VC that you just mentioned real quick like what are you raising what's going on how does that world look because software and SAS and development and technology is a huge discussion in every business today. So I'm can you give us the 60-cond version? Fine 90 seconds. [laughter] Thank you. You're going to love this one. Since early 2020 when right before COVID hit, there was this Medicare program that came out called remote patient monitoring RPM. A friend of ours reached out to me and said, "Hey, Ze, can you you're I know you know medical equipment. Can you find me a cellular connected glucometer?" Sure. At that point, I was doing nothing. It was right after the fish thing. I start doing some homework. I find out you still getting I'm sorry to detract for just one second. After this whole thing happened with the fish and all that. I know you're always an early riser. When you were doing nothing that you just mentioned before you started this, were you still getting up every day at 5:00 in the morning and doing your routine or did you start did it start affecting other things in the day? No, I wasn't doing that at that point at all. At that point, I was getting up probably about 7ish, but spending a lot of time in the park every day. No, you would go to the park every single day. Every day. That was my my place. And then Michael opened this place in in Pomona during the height of CO. Which place? The PPE house. Oh, over there. Yeah. You remember that? Out there. I mean, that place would lift anybody's spirits. Correct. Yeah. All right. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah. Um RPM. RPM. At that point, equipment that connects through cellular. I did some homework. Found a company. I'm not going to mention the name right now because the end of the story. Found a company. Big company. just brings in cell. He the guy there teaches me all about RPM and tells me this is what's going on. This is why he's asking for it. And he goes and I bring in these devices and my biggest investor also happened to own 500 nursing home. So Ze, you're the perfect guy to go put these devices in these nursing homes and find the patients that are eligible for it and get paid. And I'm like, I got nothing right now. Thank you, Hashem. This is beyond a gift. I love traveling. I love health care. I love nursing homes. I love medical equipment. This is everything. And it became a huge project. They gave me 60 buildings in Texas. Go find the 25 diabetics in each building. Give them a their own glucometer, label it, put it into PCC, which is the point click here, the the software in in the facilities, connect it, and go from one building to the next building and to the And they were paying me $30 a month for every active device that I activate. So I just had to deliver it, set it up, do the thing. So I would travel hours through Texas, you know, you'd get into the car and said, "Next stop, 3 hours and 48 minutes." You're like, "Okay." And then you look at your list, two glucometers to deliver. But okay, it's part of the whole thing. We're going to do it. It all adds up. It all adds up. And two years I traveled around Texas delivering these and setting up and managing and watching them and then realized there was no software for me to see what's going on, which devices are being used today, which are not being used today. The manufacturer themselves had no software for it. And I had no way and all of a sudden I delivered 2500 devices and there's no way of managing it. I had spreadsheets and Google Sheets and people in the Philippines trying to manage and call the buildings. Disaster and I called the manufacturer. Dude, we need a software to manage this. Yeah, it's not an aroma. I ran to the Philippines. Not physically. Um had somebody recommend me somebody in the Philippines. I said, I need a software to run my business I got going on. I'm getting paid $30 device. I got 20 2,000 devices out there. I get we're just getting started. Then they were just putting in blood pressure devices which was going to be the other 80% of the building you know it was going to triple my business right now I need a software to run this all they started building a software just to run this business after about six seven months and just as about when the software that I just built to manage this was just about functional I said this whole thing ain't going to work one device per patient in a nursing home. Impossible. The admissions, the discharge, the moving, the transfers. I'm out. They ended up suing me, that company, for $200,000 for leaving the middle. I said, "There's no way of managing this. You're not going to be happy. You're you're just shipping devices because you think you're getting paid. You're not going to get paid." And that it ended up collapsing miserably um with a lawsuit. And here I have a software now for a company that's dead being sued. And at that point I said I can give up. And I said, you know what? Let me go to some other people that I know were trying to do something within this line and show them what I built and asked them, hey, would this make your life easier? Just the software. Take it. Pay me for it. And I went to some two very large companies that were doing it each that service over a thousand facilities each and they both go, "Heck yeah, we love it. We'll start using it." They both turned on like a hundred buildings each crashed the whole software disaster again. But I said, "Hey, if they're interested and there's no software out there and I know what they need, I hired a CTO here." I took a large office right across the street all built in the USA throughout everything we built in the Philippines. We have now a number of large customers using the new software. You know, we have revenues, you know, over a million dollars a year recurring revenue already. Um, we plan on continuing to build out the software. Right now what we find is the software is most utilized by all ancillary seeing patients in nursing homes. So if you're primary care, you're a podiatrist, your psychologist, your psychiatry, you want to know who to see when you walk into that building. What they generally do is they'll walk into a building, they'll log into point click care, they'll run a report, they'll see who were the last people that were admitted since the last time I was here, who had an abnormal vital, who had a change in medication. So we tie into those softwares live and we feed them on a silver platter. This is who you should see today. This is who you could see today. Who this is who you'll get paid if you see today. And isn't that CCM? Isn't that chronic care management? Chronic care management is when you're looking for the care gaps within the patient's care. So you're going through all of their medications and their vitals and all of that and at the end of the month you're saying hey based on my conversations with the patient we created a chronic care plan to manage his diabetes to manage his so what what did you go to a VC for what was tell me about that part because that's so as interesting I've been growing the staff way faster than revenue coming in [clears throat] so I've been burning money with investors that have believed in me from day one and didn't have the first clue about product, the real estate guys, but just trusted me and loved the enthusiasm. And from a $100,000 loan from a friend of mine that I brought to a meeting and didn't like the meeting and I brought him, I said, you know, this guy wants to be my partner. He wants to give me a half a million dollars. He wants to take half the business. I don't know this type of stuff. I know how to build businesses. You're a smart guy in real estate. you mind joining me for a meeting? And we walked out of the meeting. He goes, "How much money you need for payroll?" I said, "I don't know, maybe 20 grand." He goes, "I'm going to give you a hundred. Take it as a loan. Do not do this deal." That hundred grand became $2 million. [laughter] Wow. And with a smile every time. Wow. With a smile. He really believes in this project. And you know, we got to a point where he said, "You know, I could keep funding it." and they were fine funding it. Two friends that became one other, his partner joined him. Um, but let's bring in somebody that knows how to take what you built to the next level. So, we interviewed probably 20 to 30 VCs, venture capital groups that come in and say, "We could take this company, we love it, and we're going to bring you all this value and we're going to take x amount of your business and we're going to take x amount of this." And none of them did we resonate with at all. Could you summarize it? How much money are you looking for? Like if when you're going to a VC, we were looking right now for anywhere between 1.5 and 2 mill. Got it. And every dollar we raised and we did it. We literally I'm coming from a call where we just finalized for Hashem. Thank you, Hashem. I'm so grateful. um where every single dollar came from a strategic meaning we only took money from people that could actually bring value to the company. Yeah. Not dumb money. Not one dollar of dumb money. Nice. And we did the largest check we took was 200. We didn't want anything larger than that. Good. And we down to 25,000 people that have great connections, great, you know, ancillary businesses that say I want in. Um, so that's where we're at. This has to work. Ze, you got a lot of the line over here. There's a lot of the line. I mean, this is your your I'm I'm very uh and I'm open about it cuz I want everybody rooting with me. I'm By the way, I'm 100% We're your fans. I I I bless you for cash and I bless you for float. Thank [laughter] you. People that are listening, I want people to understand what it takes to really make it big. There is so much that goes behind the scenes. There's so many sleepless nights, right? There's so much aggravation. There's so much paranoia, stress, not knowing what's going to be. I mean, you're talking about months, years worth of boiling before you could possibly make it big. My children call me every Friday, Kata, how was the week in the office? I say, I'm still pushing that boulder up the mountain, but every week it gets bigger and heavier, but the opportunity grows. But it gets heavier, but the opportunity grows and and we just pushing it up and that's our whole job. That's the that is the endg game. Yeah. Sounds like you're right now at the mode of go big or go home. Absolutely. Like that. But this this is going to be your last and final thing you hope, right? I mean this this is uh you have more in you. Absolutely. You ready to do this again and again? Absolutely. I'd love you like building businesses. I love building businesses. I love coming up conceptually, you know, from the big picture. It's always about finding that guy what we call in Cabala it's called it's calledina which is the burst of inspiration and then the intelligence to make it into pieces. So we can have an idea to build a house. I want to build a house and then you need to take those that big idea and break it into pieces and bring it to an architect and say okay this is how many rooms it's going to have and this is how many. So when you can have that partnership and find that ying to your yang where you're coming up with the vision and you know you have somebody that gets it and can really run with it. That's the biggest blessing. Zea, I give you a blessing and to everyone listening that everyone should end their day and start their day laughing and it should come from a place of positivity and growth and feel full inside. Feel full inside. We are. It doesn't come with ego. Feeling full inside means I am comfortable. You can't insult me. You can't compliment me. I'm so good. Anything you share with me is how you're feeling. So, thank you guys cuz this was really incredible. You know what? We're I'm I think we're going to end with that. A final, you know, message from our guest. A heartfelt good message. I like that, Zech. And uh thank you. I'm feeling full inside also by having this conversation. And uh great job. Great job at that. over there. Very nice. Pilot of the ship very well relishy. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, Michael. I want to try that seat. [laughter] I'll interview you. Thanks everyone for listening to the None of Your Business podcast. Please don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. Thank you again, Prime Source, of course, for sponsoring. Stefan, you're the man. Appreciate it all. Thank you everyone. Have a great