Relationships Over Transactions | What Actually Closes Deals

Someone actually said that to you >> I I can unfortunately tell you that there's more fingers that I have in my hand than people have told me that. Like what's a big deal? Like I'm not happy. Why can't you figure it out? Um [music] >> sounds like they're jealous of you. >> That's the word that comes to mind. >> None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, [music] Michael. >> It's the None of your business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. >> Welcome back everybody to another amazing episode of the None of Your Business Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Greenfield. Joined with me is our co-host, Hushy Schwarz. Today we have an amazing guest, Elliot Cohen. Elliot, say hello. >> Hi, everybody. >> Uh, Elliot, I'm >> radio voice, but yeah. >> Oh, you're putting on your radio? >> I'm not sure. I don't know. I guess we'll find out afterwards. >> Yeah, I I guess you know, let's all put on our radio voices and uh start the podcast again. Welcome back, everybody, to the None of Your Business podcast. I'm your host, Michael Greenfield, and we are sponsored, by the way, by Prime Source. This week is dedicated to Prime Source, which is our company. And uh the reason why we dedicated this com this week's episode to Prime Source because we always meet at Prime Source events. And you know, we could talk about that a little bit, what the hustle is like and what it's like to just hustle and do sales. And that's the world that I think the three of us share in common is that we're constantly on the move and hustling and and uh yeah, I'm excited to have you here. I I appreciate the color and the shape of the hat that you picked for this show specifically. I think it matches well with our logo. So, I kind of saw what the background was prior with other podcasts, so I knew what to do. >> You thought about it, didn't you? >> Yeah. >> I love that for us, by the way. Your socks, too. And we appreciate the socks that you bought for us. By the way, for those of you watching on video, this has striped and polka dots, right? So, a little more of a story than just a pair of socks, but that's all right. Tell the story. >> Well, we did a recording at ECAP East in February. Um, and I was wearing those socks and Michael specifically liked them with the uh, you can't make up your mind of polka dots or stripes. Um, but uh, went back to Nordstrom and saw a pair and figured it would be a good idea to if you liked them that much or maybe you're just being nice on the podcast. Who knows? [laughter] But >> we'll see if you wear them or not. >> I really appreciate it. It's like, well, the add socks, you know, you can't decide. >> You guys know who Lenny Tanzer is? >> Yeah, sure. Lenny >> sounds familiar the name but >> Lenny Tanzer is like uh he has a mobile imaging company and he's the master at his trade of sales and networking. >> I know what he does. That's what he does one specific thing that he gives out. >> Yeah. And uh he gives out socks and he saw me once at at a restaurant and he's like uh you like my socks. Really? I'll get you a pair. And two days later I got a pair of $37 socks in the fan club. >> Well, by the way, I never like those socks. [laughter] >> Don't wear them. But it's okay. These I think I might wear because those went up to like I swear like Lenny is an older guy. It went up to like the knee. You know, people like those. I think they call them surgical socks actually. Sorry, Lenny. I mean uh >> those are giving them back, but I'm not really using them. What you say? What? >> It's a brand Panther. That's a expensive socks. >> Oh, you know about it? >> Sure. >> Oh, okay. All right. You obviously have an eye for fashion as uh >> I try. Yeah, >> as we can tell. So, yeah. So, like I said, it's uh dedicated to Prime Source this episode because we spend a lot of time at shows and we we're always doing the hustle and um I decided to do something new a little bit with you. Um we'll try something is that we we generally have what Chachi PT says about the guest. >> Okay. >> And uh what I'd love to ask you so the audience can get to know you is what do you think Chhat would say about you? >> It's a good question. >> Thank you. And thank you Stefan. It was his idea. Thank you, Stefan. Always. Um, what do I think Chad Chabiti says about me? I think Chadi would say about me is that I'm a an avid conference goer. Um, that I'm a good connector of people and a >> a man of many hats. >> Man of many hats, literally and figuratively. I've had a lot of different responsibilities in my career. Um, where I've started, where I continued to go, and where I am now. Um, so I think it's a a big varying spectrum of things. Um, but ultimately I think what it comes down to is if >> [snorts] >> uh what I would I guess maybe the question to just what you'd want chap chat to say about you. >> We're evolving. We can we can turn >> I think I think that I'm a good human being. I think that's uh uh someone who's who's uh thoughtful and and uh respectful and kind. You know what's great about that answer is that we had someone comment on uh one of our channels once and said, "Why are you always getting celebrities and people that everybody knows and or people that you want them to just get a good guy on the podcast?" And I'm happy that you're starting it off that way because um I didn't say it, you said it. I'm joking. But um you know, something that stands out of uh with you of course is always your demeanor, your dress, your look. You stand out literally. You're tall. You wear a hat. I'm just curious when the first time you decided to wear a hat. I love that question. Um I get either that question I get a lot and then also you know throughout conferences I bring multiples with like how do you travel with it? Um it definitely confuses people at times or question or opens a question. But about seven years ago I was in the home care space and I was at a a homeare homebase user conference out in Dallas, Texas and they had a so homeare home base is like the uh the PCC version. Homeare homes is the like the EMR for home care. No, it's a homeare EMR. >> It's an EMR. Yeah. >> It's a software that home care companies use to manage and track all the systems. >> Sorry. Right. For the people that Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. So, it's like point click care for the nursing home space. Home own home base is the one for the homeare space. >> Um and the last night of the conference, they had a um >> themed casino event and everyone's like, you have to dress up, you have to do something. So, I went to the Galleria Mall in Dallas if anyone's been down there. Um, and they had like this uh Paul Smith fedora that they were selling. Like that's casino-ish like. And I got one of those like waiter vests and I put on the hat and everyone's like, "Well, that looks really cool. That looks great on you." And I felt good in it. And obviously if what do we call it? Um, follically challenged. Um, but it was I just like the look. I like the fit of it. And then it just stayed and it's been six and a half years. You know, I've seen you dozens of times. I don't think I've ever seen you without a hat. I don't know what you look like underneath that covering. >> Well, let's just say he's not going to be a head and shoulders shampoo sponsor. >> Definitely not. >> But let's see what's underneath. Can we at least reveal to the world what you look like under? >> Wow. Oh my god. >> That's pretty wild. >> That's amazing. I got to touch it. >> So I So >> you got to touch it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. fascinated by bald heads. >> So, >> you normally can't touch a guy's bald head. >> Well, you you're more than welcome to anytime, but um it at um I've always had like on the side and then I was like a friend of mine's like, "Why don't you shave it?" Like, how fast does your hair grow? What's the worst that can happen? Just shave it and see what happens. Um because it was always like on the side, but it wasn't, you know, um it wasn't there was nothing obviously nothing on top. I started losing my hair when I was probably 20, probably 19. Yeah. So, it became it was like, you know, always covering it up and wearing the hats anyways, so just shave it. And then last year for PUM, um, we were trying to think of I was trying to think of with the kids what to do and they're like, "Hey, want to do Minions?" And I'm like, "Actually, that's great. I could be grew could shave it off, do it for Perm." And then worst case scenario, it was just for Perm. Um, and they did it and it was I mean, people thought I just went all in on the costume. Um, kids loved it. it look great and everyone was just like that looks you should keep it. I think there was like one guy in the community like maybe you shouldn't keep it. I'm like I don't need your opinion but thank you. So but now it's just also it's easy. It's >> so you never wear a keeper then. >> Uh but you're always wearing a hat, >> right? That's what I'm saying. You're always wearing a hat. >> Yeah. Correct. >> Wow. It's so interesting. You don't leave the house without a hat. >> Either that or a baseball cap. Sometimes people see me in a baseball cap and they're like, "What is going on?" Like this. >> I have to tell you, you look good without a hat. I like that look. >> Why do you think I kept it off? >> Yeah. You look different. >> I didn't rush. You do look different. I'm meeting you for the first time. That's nice to meet you. Always I think people are also when they see the video like, "Wow, this is weird." But it's I'm I'm totally comfortable with that. >> Well, for all those people that are starting to lose their hair, I hear this a lot from a lot of my friends. Just go completely bald. >> Yeah. >> And it really looks good on you. So that's that's awesome. Wow. >> Yeah. So it's it's also I've accepted the hair loss over years anyways. So it's like whatever. >> Have you tried anything to gain back your hair? >> When I was 19 or 20, we tried when Propecia came out. Um, but it was really really expensive cuz it just came out and there was like whatever you have to like continue taking it and if you stop it starts to fall out and I after a few months I stopped and then I mean >> I was always worried that if I take propisha something else is going to go wrong >> but now but now cheap you can get $3 for and it works. >> I don't know. Definitely not. >> Imagine you started taking prop back. It's not going to grow back. >> It retains what you're losing. I had a I had uh someone who I know that was so desperate that they tried the most random things to put on their heads at night. >> You think that something like that for sure would work like toothpaste or some random thing or cow urine. >> Yeah, that I wouldn't do but >> but yeah, >> not making it up. >> Yeah, I know it works. >> And uh like this there's things that people use. But look all you look great. I like it. But I I appreciate knowing a little bit more about it because >> people do go through challenges of losing their hair by the way. That's a very big thing. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, some people have a hard time with it. I'm just accepted it and confident and who cares. >> Amazing. Well, turkey is a big deal right now. People are going to turkey to >> I haven't even >> install follicles. I don't think it's for you anymore. >> I don't think so either, but that's fine. I'm okay. >> Wow. Okay, cool. I'm glad I got that out of the way. It's good to know. >> Yeah. >> Um, so you first started wearing a hat, but you were doing the shows for a while before that. Yeah, I was it. So my background what I So now I I run growth for this for comprehensive group consultants, a physiatry group. Um >> physsiatry which does pain management for people. >> Yeah. So we staff nursing homes with pain management doctors across the country. Um but my background has been home health and hospice for my career. >> Um but actually we take a further step back. I actually I don't know if I ever share this with you but I was in the culinary world um before I got into healthcare. So, um, I got into it when I was in Yeshua in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Um, it was like post high school there. They always needed a guy to kind of help out with the kitchen to prepare dinner and I just always had a knack for it. I always loved helping my my mother out in the kitchen and kind of watching what they were doing and then got really into it and they're like, "Hey, you seem like you have a natural talent. Would you like to help out?" So I started doing it and then making the shabas meals for 60 guys and um I really enjoyed it and was really you know I have br a really natural talent for it. Um and then when I went to Israel where I was sent to Shiva I helped out there and started getting hired for catering jobs and it was a it was a it was a great use of skills and just my um my imagination just kind of working through a lot of things and figuring things out. It was a It was a really good experience. I really enjoyed it. >> How long did it last for you being like a >> Yes, I still do it a lot now. In >> regard saying you relied on it for your >> Well, so after that point um was doing in Israel and then came back um got married very early. I was 21 22 and worked um for Michael Shik who's one of the esteemed kosher caterers in the in the Jewish world. Um worked in a commissary there for four or five months. I >> there's a suggestion right there. Michael Schik. I'd love to have him on here. >> Hear him talk about the world of catering. >> He's he's uh you see him a lot a lot of conferences just on last week. So yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's um >> doesn't he do the ecap shows? >> He does. Yeah, >> he does. There's a few top-notch uh people out there that >> Yeah, >> there is. >> They're making an impact. >> Yeah. And then um at that point, I was doing it for a while. I want to go to culinary school and then my uh my wife at the time wanted me to kind of get a real job. Um and I went into healthcare and started working at centers healthcare. So it was an interesting development and balance but um then I started healthcare working for centers. Um again centers is one of those great organizations like prime source where they uh hire really anybody that seems like they can you know give them a shot, give them an opportunity. Um and they >> when you say anybody you mean any hardworking >> any hard work? Yeah. anybody that's talented and wants to succeed in life and wants to go beyond the online BA they got after 6 months. >> Yeah. And really try something real. Um >> and >> sorry I just [laughter] >> Yeah. No, that's that's valid. Not anybody and neither do you, but um it gives people an opportunity. Um you what's the saying? Um you can either give someone a fish or teach them how to fish. Um so and I and I actually just I think I just shared this with you. I think what I've seen you guys do is that you do both. if you give them a fish and you teach them how to fish. So that's impressive. Um, >> thank you. >> But it it it, you know, have a lot of appreciation because they again gave me a gave me an opportunity and I grew in that pretty well. Was pretty good at my job pretty quickly, pretty early on. I was hired. My first bosses was uh Max Mason, Ari Stalis. Um, and >> great great people, >> great folks. Um and then I uh yeah grew within four months I was requested by the the administrators which the buildings I was working with to be their assistant and they're like um you know centers is like okay who is this what's going on what do what what who who what can we do here at that point they had three home care agencies in the five burrows two skilled one non-skilled um and they had 15 nursing homes in the five burrows and they were obtaining only about 24% of the business from their own facilities And they were like, "Hey, like we want you to do this." And it was essentially, we call it centers link. It was essentially working with all the facilities and making sure that that there was a path for them to refer with internally for the benefit of continuum of care, for the benefit of keeping everything within a system. Um, and I came in, they're like, "Hey, like figure it out." And within about 6 months, we were at 24% when I started. We were about 82% after 6 months. So, I did that and then I learned a very valuable lesson. One of my early lessons I learned in the business world is don't complain unless you have a solution. And I was telling Izzy and I was telling Elliot cuz I was like, "Hey, like the intake team at the skilled agency can't function without a better intake support." So, I was complaining for about three months and then he's like, "Hey, guess what? I have I have a solution." I'm like, "Great. What is it?" He's like, "Congratulations. You're now the dire you're now the director of intake. Fix it." And I'm like, "Great. Not what I had in mind, but All right. Sure. >> In 2016, um, >> we're only up to 2016. >> Oh, yeah. In 2016, I got an opportunity to work for Avery Eisenrich. They had a skilled agency in Jersey City. Um, and they were looking for someone to kind of step into a finance operations role. I came in and they said, "We have a need in billing and finance that we need." I'm like, "I don't know anything about homeare billing." And let alone I failed my math B region twice. So, like, I am not your finance guy. So you don't believe in the fake it till you make it type in terms of getting a joke. >> I didn't say that. >> No, no, it could be. You're right. >> I didn't say that. I just said that when when they had that in mind. So when I started, he gives me my business card and it says CFO. And I'm like, okay, this is a joke. Like I am not your CFO. And he's like, we need help with billing. I'm like, I don't know. He's like, you'll figure it out. And I and I did. I I do. I said before with even the cooking. I have a very good natural talent of picking things up pretty quickly. Um, and I try and use those talents when I can accordingly. But it was a it was a really good um opportunity for me to to learn more about internal and how businesses run and operate and keep themselves moving. It was a good good option. Then CO hit um and we thrived during CO. We thrived during CO because of the relationships that I've built and that the team has built over the years. There was obviously in in Hudson County, New Jersey in that area also was like obviously CO was terrible. Um and people didn't have any resources. No one knew where to turn, no one knew where to go. Obviously, we had the the PPE um gray market or you know, people trying to figure out what to do and I connected a lot of doctors that had no resources with the right people to kind of get the stuff they needed. Was very helpful and supportive in that. But one of the big things that really helped us during COVID was I mentioned again I still cook and still you know um spend a lot of time and explore with that and part of my job in marketing and development was taking doctors out for dinner twice a week and when COVID hit obviously everything was shut down people were working 20our days there was no sense of of like normality so I suggested to the CEO at that point I'm like hey like I have a crazy idea like why don't I invite doctors to my house for dinner. I'll have a four course meal paired wines and cocktails. He's like, interesting. You could try it, but I don't know how that will develop. >> Well, what it depends what restaurants you were taking them till now. I'm saying were you taking them to Mendlesson's >> or were you taking them to Reserve Cut? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of them in New Jersey, so etc. And T. >> So, you taking them to good restaurants? Taking them to good restaurants. >> So, their standards were high already. >> I will say I'm I'm I am very good at be in the kitchen as well. >> So, you're you're convincing them to bring them to your house during that process. Smart. and and you know >> what's the dish that you're famous for? >> So now for the last couple years I've been doing um fresh homemade pasta I've done at these dinners of um you know Gordon Ramsay's beef Wellington. >> Oo yeah >> that's >> so that was yeah that was intense. Um the the >> that's a big undertaking part was you don't know until you cut it open what it's like and I cut it open at the table and it was pristine and perfect. >> What is that? Medium or medium rare? >> Medium. No. Yeah, medium rare. >> Medium. Medium rear or medium. >> Medium medium rare. Yeah, >> I make up your mind. >> Medium rare in the middle is medium rare and then it gets medium and towards towards the end. >> You let it sit. You're saying, "Okay, all right. I'm a medium rare guy." >> So, yeah, it was uh >> she I don't remember. >> Always medium rear >> also. Always. >> You should ask me as a black and blue type of guy, but that's okay. >> That was that was a compliment by the way, though. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I think everything >> So, continue on this journey of yours at least from your financial aspect of things. Yes. This is your professional journey. >> Yeah. So, >> I still want to know about your personal journey. Who are you? Where are you coming from? Where'd you grow up? But go ahead. >> We'll get to that. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, I uh so I mentioned Stephen Schwarz was the CEO of Revival. I got kind of got to a point at Promise Care and I was just like, which was the name of the home health agency. Okay, what am I doing next? And Stephen talked about he's like, you know, everybody in the space, you know, every nursing home operator. Why don't we just do home care across the country and open branches and create a, you know, a real organization that we can continue to develop off of your relationships in the nursing home owners and AC different states, different markets. Yeah, maybe this is a good idea. Let me think about it. And I uh I kind of had a very brief conversation with my wife at the time about it. And yeah, maybe consider it. We'll see. And then I just kind of pulled the trigger and and jumped. >> You did what a lot of people do. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to just uh bring us to that point. >> You did what a lot of people do during their career, which is they make decisions to make a shift and to do something with a potential opportunity. And uh I'm curious what the upsides and downsides are when you create those type of decisions. >> So I think at that point also part of making the decision was I was confident in my or my relationships across the across the board. Um >> is it all in the hat? How did you make all these relationships? >> You know what I I I think what it comes down to is I make relationships and build connections with no motive or no agenda. It's not what you can do for me or why I want to, you know, why I want to help support you or introduce you to somebody. It's because I don't have a motive or an agenda. It's truly because I care and I want to help you if I can. Why not? It doesn't cost me anything. >> Well, it cost you your time where you're not making money, >> but not necessarily because what >> Unless you're very wealthy. >> Because No. Well, that's a good point. Because what's happened, what I've seen for myself personally is when you're genuine about making those relationships and those connections, yes, you're using your time, it's always helped me and supported me in the future. I've in in in going forward consistently. And I think in sales, I don't like to look at myself as I'm a sales in sales. I like to look at myself as I'm in relationships. It's more about developing to get to know you as a person. And then as that continues to develop, usually business transpires from it. Um, and I always put relationships first as a a lot of conferences that I go to, I don't particularly have a particular like game plan or agenda or targets. >> Sure. >> Um, >> I think that's the secret to a good uh conference. >> Yeah. >> Is we just focusing on building the relationship and you see do that a lot. >> Things happen. I mean, some of the some of the best um uh deals and companies that I work with and work with now all came from years of building relationship with I never thought I would ever do business with them. >> Was it all through conferences? >> Usually, a lot of them you meet people and then you continue to develop and it's also on a lot of followup, right? >> You say conferences is a big part of growing >> conferences is a major part. That's why I tell people all the time like I'm not sure what my ROI is on the conference. It's expensive. like you're definitely not going to get anything if you're not there, right? So, it's it really is about showing up and being present and being consistent. Um because it a lot of it is also out of sight, out of mind. >> All right, let's fast forward to now. So, how did you get to where you are now? >> Fine. So, I I uh we started our own home health business. We were in um we started in Florida in Orlando and Jacksonville and then we also moved out to Dallas, Texas. >> We're opening up >> home health businesses >> locations in different throughout the country >> in different markets. Correct. and you're responsible for building those relationships in every >> correct. So that was it was it was it was a a challenge because again when you're in a market that you're working for for 10 years it's not that difficult at least from my perspective to for me to develop those relationships because you're there people know who you are you're there's all these events but it's really difficult when you're in different locations different states and you have to be in different places every other week >> um to meet new people and spend the time and invest that time and energy into >> how do you invest that time? I'm just curious like I mean I have my own answers but this is you on the podcast today so >> I'm curious like you have some you know you're going to Florida you're trying to build a a territory there you have three hours to build a relationship with somebody. How are you building that relationship with that person? >> I think I think a lot of it is just deciding on what's what the attention and what the focus is. It can be extremely exhausting because you're going back and forth and back to backtoback meetings and then you know having to uh to to also balance a a personal life too. Um, I think for me it also was that I was I'm very good at I have just have a good energy. I think people pick up on it, but also it's the genuiness that comes with it. It's not it's it's I' I've heard one of my one of my favorite compliments that I've got from people is that we don't even know that you're selling. And I think that that's um it it speaks on I'm not trying to necessarily show you that I'm selling because again I can what's that sell you this pen? But like it it's I'm not selling you the pen. I'm selling you me and I'm selling me and I'm selling you our connection. And then if you want to buy a pen, great. If you don't, you'll buy it eventually, but you're not going to buy it right now. And that's fine. It's with no motive or agenda and people don't feel this stickiness, if that makes sense. >> Yeah, it does. And I want to get more into it, but keep going with your journey. So you we finish up where you're up to now. >> Yeah. So was doing that for about 18 months. um kind of got to a point where we had to make a decision if we were going to keep moving with the homeare business. We were had a lot of struggles with um with agencies. It was some of them were just like the perfect storm that was really difficult through difficult times. Um there was obviously also a strain on on uh on my family and my kids and um there was again a lot of roadblocks that I had personally as well that kind of um that led to some of the struggles that we have within the business. Um and you know sometimes there's decisions that have to be made that aren't necessarily the easiest but um it's a it's a really strong learning process and figuring those things out. So, we can get into that a little more as I you know, there's um >> I happen to like that topic simply because there's so many people that I know that they double and triple down on things that are not working and they keep going and going and going and we always ask the question, when do you stop? >> When do you when do you pull the plug? When do you cut your losses? At what point do you actually learn that you're losing more than you're gaining here at this point? Like >> people who start their own businesses is a good example. with an investor, it's different. But when you're starting your own business, >> so you're starting your own business and you're struggling and you're challenged and you're working hard, you're getting accounts and you're doing your thing and you're making money, but you as an owner operator aren't taking out a salary. And if you went to work for somebody, you might make more than what you're trying to do over the course of a few years. So that's why it's just an interesting hot topic for me that I talk about all the time. But >> I think a lot of that also is ego. um where people are like, "No, I could do it myself." Even though >> is there such a thing as a good ego? >> I wouldn't necessarily call it ego. I'd call it confidence. >> Okay. Does it come from ego though? >> Well, I guess so. I'm just using a nicer word. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. >> I think there is a good ego. I think if you're if cuz when what do you actually when you hear the word ego, what do you think of? What's the first thing that comes to mind? >> I mean, it has a negative connotation to it. >> That's how people talk about it amongst themselves. When you want to put somebody down, say he thinks too highly of himself, use the word ego. >> You know what? I'm going to start saying confidence to you from now on because I've said to you before, you have a good ego. That's a confident thing. >> I think also a separate word. That's confidence. Very different thing. >> Yeah. There's also, like I said, there's a fine line. I say this all the time, a fine line between confidence and cocky, >> right? And I guess that's depends on where you are on that line. >> You mean Lakewood or Muny. >> I didn't say that. >> No, I'm just saying depends where you are. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. >> Based on the cockiness >> compar Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's why ego has a negative connotation. But when you say you know >> no I don't know if ego in itself like the core the essence of being having an ego is a bad thing. It just depends at what >> motivates people. Yeah. >> Yeah. You know you got to balance it like anything else. If you have uh passion like that can lead you to do extreme things that are harmful >> and uh it can also lead you to do great things you know and wonderful things. So it's all about balancing it out. >> Never getting too high, never getting too low. >> Yeah. >> And uh ego is just you know a play and a word of confidence is really what it is. If it gets too high, too much confidence, >> that's cocky. >> Unwarranted confidence, you know, then he has an ego. It's usually how you'll associate the word. >> Yeah. >> If you don't mind, if you can pause for a second because you're on a journey and this is your >> I can't keep up. Third or fourth attempt [clears throat] at uh growing. >> Yeah. >> Um you know, after you knew that culinary wasn't for you and each time, what are you taking out of it? What are you learning from it? I mean again so many listeners are listening to this have gone through multiple jobs, multiple companies, tried multiple things or are in the journey of trying and you know when you I'll be honest with you when you started to tell your whole journey and your story I'm like okay like like okay what are we up to like you know what are you doing now let's go back to right >> but I'm learning from the story and listening to you that you know you you're >> you know you're a person that you really are a nice guy obviously >> thank you >> um takes >> but you know I appreciate that but even more so learning from your experiences is really important for me and you know I want to learn more and more about it as you know you're sitting there with your third or fourth attempt at a at a you know a business venture let's call it and you still have the same things that you left with which is your talents your raw talents of relationship building >> and networking and so what did you hold on to each time what was that thing that kept you going what would you tell younger people when they're growing and trying to get business what are the important things that you held on to Yeah. So that's a that's a really good point and I think it's it's a good segue into the next as we continue to talk about the the growth from you know kind of the limitations. >> Right. At this point you're at this point you have kids. >> Yeah. >> You're married at this point. >> Correct. >> And uh you're traveling a lot which is another point to make. >> Yeah. It definitely put a strain on a lot of the personal um meaning traveling a lot. >> Yeah. On the marriage. Um but for me I I tell people all the time when you're in any role in anything just absorb what you can like a sponge. What's saying um you can be a jack of all trades but a master of none. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think that you can not master a lot of trades but you can definit you you can definitely get a lot of knowledge and experience by just learning and being curious. Um I think curiosity is something that is a lot of people are scared of um are scared to know. Curious in regards to business, curious in regards to personal life, curious in regards to friendships and just understanding who people are and just being curious to learn. Um because we kind of get stagnant if we're just doing the same thing. So example, you have people that are in the same job and they're just doing the same thing next to next to another company. What do you what do you actually what are you learning from it? I've been lucky that in all these moves that I've made were all in different roles. They were all in diff there were similar concepts but essentially different roles where I was understanding different levels of business that I didn't have before. And I was curious to learn, wait, how does that work? Why are you doing it that way? Why don't you try it this way? What's the background? What's the what's the understanding of it? >> You always came out ahead with knowledge, >> correct? >> But you held on to something. What was that something? >> I held on to I think the core value. And the core value truly is being a good human being. I think that that that is people feel it, people see it, people believe in it. >> I'm sorry to to go off on that. You you're not making money being a good human being. What was the talent that you had that you held on to that you kept building upon with every single transition that you had that people can think about and say, >> I want to focus on >> maybe also that it's the it's it's but I think part of that is the good human being is the connections and the relationships. >> Okay. So relationship Right. >> It's all relationships. You can if you would ask any anyone that knows me, that knows that that that's that that's seen me in conferences or in meetings, a lot of them would say, I guess, what chatb would say about me is I'm just a good connector. Um, and I I my relationships that I have and that I connect people with are strong because I can meet someone and pull you over to make an introduction, but I don't know them. it's not really gonna has much of an impact as if I as if I do know them well. For me, I've been through a lot of personal changes over the last year or so specifically. Um, and it was really encouraging to see people kind of step up and be there when you needed them to. Um, we can, you know, we can talk about that a little bit more, but there's been a lot of of, you know, essentially growing up within, like I said, growing up as a good from boy from Flatbush, like you're kind of insulated to a certain aspect. And also too when sometimes people enter into the working world they understand that there is a bigger world out there and there are things to be curious about um and to understand what you know what your core values are and I think that that's a a really big piece to um truly figuring out where you want to be in life. I appreciate that and I think that what you're saying here if I may is that someone who wants to be that relationship builder, that connector, that marketing, business development, sales, all is all under one roof. You know, being the genuine person that you are and connecting and networking and that's what we're learning from you and I'm enjoying it a lot. We have someone in our company that just recently said this, uh Elliot, shout out to you. um where he said, "Every person that works for us in our company has other talents that we need to exploit and figure out how to use to benefit our company." And it was such a really like it was it was really eye opening and it was just nice to hear that someone else on our team is even thinking about that. And uh compliments to you Elliot uh for bringing up that topic and to you. >> Right. Exactly. I was going to say to you also Elliot >> for for talking about it and finding that talents and you had that knowledge. So every time you came out of something, you had bigger and better relationships >> with people that you've had over the course of those years and you also had the education from everything you've learned and absorbed because that's what you're saying it helps you. So so what was next in your journey? >> So next I was at with >> and this is how long ago? >> This was 2022 is when I started for >> care. Okay. So just a short few years ago you already transitioned to the next thing in >> correct. I was doing that for two years. Um, and it was also was a fantastic experience. The hospice space and the hospice services like again when you think of the word hospice, what's the first thing that comes to mind? >> Very morbid. >> Somebody who's at the tail end of their life. >> Yeah. >> And they're just trying to, you know, be as comfortable as possible for the whatever is left of their life. >> So that's a misconception. I think that when when in the hospice world again most 99% of people think death and it doesn't have to be that way because I think people look at as they're giving up and they're just letting it you know take its course and sometimes that's what people that's what's beneficial for patients is when they you're just trying treatments and sometimes the body just you know wants to be left alone and it will do its thing and you have patients that are on hospice for six months you have patients on hospice for two years um and then sometimes you know you have those like last minute things like, "Oh, put them on hospice." And and you're already at the end of the road. Um, but for me, that was a a good experience in in that world, but also working with people as well because you understand that people are in the most vulnerable times of their lives, the most, you know, their mom, dad, family member, someone is on their deathbed and they just don't know how to handle it. And you really have to I I used when I would travel even for because we operate at hospice in multiple states and they're like what do you in the airport I I talk to to everybody. Um I [clears throat] also I fly almost every week or every other week. So I have a I don't know if I told you I have a a game uh with myself of uh how quickly I can get to the how late I can get to the airport and still make my flight. >> Um so I live in say Clifton. It's about 22 minutes from Newark. Um, if the flight's at 7:00 a.m., door closes 6:45, I leave my house at around 6:00. >> Love it. So, like >> TSA pre-check. >> Yeah. Clear. >> Not clear is worthless in Newark. >> Oh, in Newark. Okay. But boarding pass in hand. >> No checking bags. >> No. >> You have the system. You know what you're doing. >> Check a bag at that point. But >> you've gotten screwed in the past. I'm saying you've >> I've taken probably 150 plus flights. Probably more in the last three, four years. I've missed two. >> Okay. Because of security. Is that what it ends up being? Well, one one was it was 911, not 2021, but not 2001, but 911. Um, three year two years ago. I called an Uber and I don't know why I thought like it's a 6 a.m. flight. I called her for five and then not realized 911 is going to be a little bit more of a stickier situation at the airport. Um, and the Uber driver was like said he had to stop for the bathroom. Like, no, no, no. Like, I need to get to the airport. Showed up and missed it by 10 minutes. >> I'm sorry. Did you let your Uber driver stop? >> He didn't give me a choice. >> Oh, okay. It happened to me once before, but >> in New York, he just pulled over in a random shady Motel 6 and got out of the car. I'm like, I'll be back in five minutes. I'm like, uh, >> yeah. Was not great. >> I literally had that and I missed my flight. Exactly the same thing. It's crazy. Yeah. >> Not great. Um, and then the other time was So, uh, the airlines a lot of times change the terminal on you like >> Yeah. So, that's it. Last second thing. >> All right. So, your your batting average is pretty good early. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Um, but I I learned my way around the airport. But, um, where are we going with this? >> Um, at that point I was also, you know, starting to really go through with um struggling with u the marriage and starting to go through a divorce process. Um, and it was this do I stay at Care One? Um, you know, because my my uh my now ex-wife wanted me to kind of stick around and do things locally. and this was a good opportunity that I thought would be a good option for me. So, it kind of got to the head of, you know, how I want where I want to see my career grow, where I want to see myself as a person grow and have that kind of [snorts] what do they call it work life balance and understand what to do. Um, and obviously I decided to to join with um with CRC and kind of take that role. Um and it's very different because my everything else I was working for these you know orthodox from guys that were understood the community and understood the culture and understood all those different factors and then working for a group that is not Jewish run is not what's it called very corporate um very financriven it was a different world for me but I really took all those experiences you mentioned as I said before the kind of that segue buildup of understanding that there's a bigger world and understanding that there is a capacity that I have to use all those strengths and those experiences and knowledges that I learned and really put it into what I was doing now, what I'm doing now. And it also kind of has given me the ability to learn who I am as a human and who I am as a a father, who I am as a um a a Jew, who I am as a human being. And it it's it's really adjusted and given me kind of this path to where on this like learning or healing path that I'm working on. >> That's all been in the past year. You're saying? >> It's all been in the past year. Wow. Yeah. Okay. >> So, it's fairly recent, but it's been, you know, kind of a >> This is something new. And this new position requires you to travel still. >> It does. Yeah. So, I'm traveling quite frequently now. Um, more frequently now, obviously. I have uh a different home life. So there's uh you know there's a little bit of a flexibility to >> If you don't mind, take me back a little bit now that we got to where you are currently in terms of what's your official role? >> Senior vice president of growth. >> Got it. Um other than salary, what's important to you when you join a company? >> Well, it depends on what role you're in. So, if you're in a sales role or as I call relationships role, um it's about bonuses because you know, a lot of times in when you're hiring someone in sales and I know you guys hire people that don't have a lot of experience and you're not necessarily going to give them a a substantial salary without seeing what they're capable of, right? So, you give them a decent base, something to live off of and and give them a good bonus structure. >> Yeah. We also give them a coach of someone who has a lot of experience. >> That's amazing. >> So, yeah, which is thank god been a good formula for us. So for every one coach we have let's say three people underneath that person. >> How do you find these coaches in >> the coaches are people that have experience specifically in our field specifically in senior care procurement management and so on. >> Mean that work for you or >> that used to work for a company similar to ours or in our space that know the industry know trade shows conferences sales you know calls and so on. >> See you give them a fish and you teach them. >> Yeah. You know you mentioned twice um or more even about your upbringing and um >> I'm not sure what to say. sorry that you got divorced but at the same time you know >> it definitely is hard let's not uh not going to say it isn't it's difficult I have four kids um >> okay >> my oldest actually is bar mitzvah in in two weeks >> oh masleto thank you and then my youngest is uh is a is five so it's it's definitely challenging >> before I jump into that just give me a little bit of that background yes Brooklyn I could say the same thing grew up in Brooklyn what part of Brooklyn >> uh midwood 27th in Avenue like smil >> uh Um, okay. >> I have a a sister older than me and three younger brothers. >> Was there a shoo that you dive into? >> Yeah. Yeah. Good Avenue. >> Good Avenue. Rabbi Finer was the rabbi back then. >> Rabbi Isby who was nicer and then Rabbi Berer. Oh, >> I'm totally off. Okay. >> Yeah, totally off. I know where is but um yeah, hard to flatbush. Um regular mainstream Yeshiva Tobima and Frank School. Um very, >> you know, very >> in your age bracket and your world uh growing up Brooklyn to MIA and so on. Do you have any friends in your world that have experienced like um challenges, let's call it, in the school system in your age and your uh >> I mean a good question. I I think I don't think anyone can answer that question and say no. Um I think you've we've all had people that have had challenging experiences. I growing up, especially in elementary and high school, I was just blinders. I would just kind of follow along what I was told to do and how I was, you know, how I was raised. And my parents kind of were are very um very involved, but I was also the I mean, I wasn't the middle child, but I was the middle child. Um, you know, it was just, you know, when we always sit around the table, all my siblings, like they always ask who was the easiest, and everyone agrees it was me because I was just kind of like, >> Got it. So you went to Bridgeport. >> Yeah, >> we knew that from earlier. Rabbi Burger was >> there. Yeah, >> he's my rabbi by the way. >> I love him. >> So love him too. Shout out to >> M >> whose mother is a hundred years old. Holocaust survivor. >> Fantastic woman. Um >> so I knew that. Then you also went to yeshiva you mentioned in Israel center >> there. Yeah. >> What else stood out in your upbringing that you can say that shaped who you are today? I think I think a lot of actually what shaped who I am today was not even in my childhood. I think a lot of it was even after I got married you know dating. Yeah. Also day was the >> the the first girl actually that was recommended u to me. >> This was your first >> first girl blind date. Um didn't know any different. I also like I mentioned before kind of like >> blinders on do what I do do what I do. I've never I had obviously even growing up friends that had the talk to girls. I was just like >> So you never had a girlfriend? >> Okay. >> No, nothing. Didn't even really have any interactions. >> Right. So uh so you got married when you were young? 20 >> 21 I was engaged, married. >> 21 engaged, married. Lived in Brooklyn. >> Brooklyn for the first three months and then moved to Israel for a year. >> Okay. Oh, you lived in Israel. What part of Israel? >> Ar. Yeah. Very cool. >> Living normal everything like you know. Uh >> yeah. Um, >> you had a kid right away, I guess. >> Uh, after the first year, yeah, >> after the first year, >> I was married 14 and then my oldest was is now almost 13. So, yeah, a year. Um, but yeah, we uh I think that's what shaped a lot of who I am today. Just obviously understanding that what life is, um, the struggles around it. um not knowing of the support and some of the kind of uh resources that uh because again especially marrying the first girl I ever dated dated for 6 weeks engaged you know married 3 months after that you're marrying a total stranger right um and you know you try and figure out where life is in still not even what the the the frontal cortex is still not fully developed what is it? 25 is when it when you like you're a child. I was a child. Um and didn't understand any any factors and I felt like there's a lot of uh now I think there's a lot more resources for young couples that are maybe getting married than there was when I was. Um I think also when you think of what you you hear the word divorce, what do you I'm clicking on issue with these, but like when you hear divorce in the from world, what comes to mind? >> I think shame probably a word that a lot of people would throw around. Um it's unfortunate because a lot of times it's actually a good thing. Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. >> Not everything works out. >> Correct. >> And what do you do? You try something else, right? And we do that in our lives all the time. >> But this is uh >> a religious aspect to it. There's a practical aspect to it. >> And the most important one, kids. I mean, you can't just try something else. >> Yeah. That quickly though. So >> that's my point. My point is that it's actually not good for the kids. >> Right. Right. >> I'm saying is that's why you should consider trying something else. But despite that they don't because of these other things like shame and >> Yeah. So that's when you said trying something else then what did you mean? You meant trying like another approach. You mean towards the relationship? What do you mean? >> No, I'm saying I mean in in general in life when something's not working you try something else. >> Oh right. In marriage it's difficult. >> In marriage you should technically try something else, right? You can't because there's a lot of things that are turning you down. But it's not just the kids aspect. The kids a lot of times that's actually a reason you shouldn't be together is because harming your kids. Um, so you know that's that's what I meant. >> Yeah. No, and that's it's kind of what what most people think of when they when they hear especially in the firm world. So it becomes this like okay what do I do? Like I'm you know in a rough place. You have four kids. You're not sure like what what's developing or how to kind of deal with it. And again even like I mentioned even early on when we just got married I had no resources. didn't understand what was um you know what was what I was supposed to be like what marriage was supposed to be like and you know at that point too there's why I say resources there's there weren't a lot of ramim or people that just were there to support what that should look like and there's a lot of fear around it um now I know that there's a lot of um you see a lot of like podcasts and and um and speeches and stuff given about you know divorce and you know structures and everything else and there's a lot more support around it. Uh for me personally I mean everyone handles their process their situations the way that they do. For me you know obviously it was a really difficult process. Obviously I'm uh in a better place now that going through it but it is it is crippling. Um, it cripples a lot of people and they don't know where to turn and what to do. And even from within my, you know, friends and community, they're like, they don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. Am I allowed to say something? Am I allowed to say something? Should I reach out? Should I not reach out? Do I pick a side? Do I not pick a side? Um, and honestly, you don't have to pick sides. I don't think um I think that that takes it to a whole different level. I think that everyone needs support in their own way. Some people, again, I ask other guys that are divorced like I don't want to talk about it. like I don't want people to tell me talk to me about it whereas you know sometimes you feel like you feel very much isolated and alone um and it's hard and it's difficult um and people question you know people uh like you know I'm not happy in my marriage why couldn't you figure it out and I'm like okay you should deal with your own problems >> has someone actually said that to you >> I I can unfortunately tell you that there's more fingers that I have in my hand than people have told me that >> wow >> they're like what's the big deal like I'm not happy why can't you figure Yeah. Um, >> sounds like they're jealous of you. >> That that's the word that comes to mind. Yeah. But also, again, to each their own. I mean, I think that everyone has their own situations. Everyone has their own marriages and their own struggles. And there are people that have beautiful marriages. And, um, it it's, uh, it's definitely, like I said, a learning process. Um, it's difficult for the kids, but ultimately for me, um, my family has been very supportive. Um, I have some friends that have been really supportive and some friends that stepped up that I didn't even think would. Um, and it's it's it's nice. It's hard because sometimes you have people that just don't know what to do and they kind of take a step back. Um, and you can't force someone to do something. You can't push someone in a direction. Um, but you know, you be consistent and there's a lot more still that I'm learning on myself and how to be the best father that I can be for my kids now. Um, and still be a good co-parent. um and work together with with uh with their mother and be able to work things through as as easily and as smoothly as possible. Um I'm putting my best foot forward. Um but now, you know, I'll say this, Michael, uh we spoke what almost eight months ago at a conference and and I think I met your wife then at that point as well. Um, and you know, there's sometimes in in every process that everyone's going through, whether it be a divorce or a difficult time at a job and and or just, you know, issues with a friend, sometimes there's a conversation that you have with people that they're not expecting to make such an impact, but they do make an impact. And I think that conversation, I can I'll say this publicly. I think I told you it then, but made a real impact. Um, because sometimes, like I said, you feel very isolated and alone. Um, but knowing sometimes that there are people that genuinely care about you. Um, that genuinely want to be their supportive and feel like they are what's called. There have been so many people especially like I said in within the community and some of the Rabam and um my family has just been the most supportive that they can be and it's you meet really good people and kind of get along in certain aspects. And I have friends that like came out of that I've known for a little bit but have just been the most I couldn't get through it without you know certain friends that were just there and through every step of the way and even though everyone everyone's going through their own situations at every point of the day um you don't know what's going on in other people's uh in other people's lives but um that's also too what motivates me to just be that >> good human being just >> by the way I'm curious did you lose any uh good old friends? Yeah, because they don't again they don't it's a good question. >> Did you lose any what? >> Good couple friends, you know. >> Good couple friends. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. People have to pick sides. They they they do um but they meaning if there's they do but they also don't you you can support meaning you don't want to talk oh they said this oh he said this or she said that that's toxic that is I have no I have I'm learning again through this I mentioned before healing process of I don't have time for sorry am I allowed to station it >> say what you want >> I don't have time for it right I I have a lot of responsibilities I have a lot of things going on in my life just like everybody does. I just don't have time to waste. So, and nobody does. No one should. So, it's it's like any of this toxic behavior or someone's trying to tell me what's going on or whatever it is. I'm like, I just don't care. I really don't. Like, it doesn't unless it affects my kids, that's all I care about. If it doesn't, I I don't care. I have nothing to say. I have no comment. I don't want to even know. Um if you want to talk about me, that's your problem. I don't care. I know what I'm doing. I know the type of person that I am. I know who I'm representing. and I know the path that I'm on and I'm and I'm proud of that for now. And it's it's you know, one of the things that I actually said to my therapist once and he's like, I'm going to use it. He's like, you know, working on yourself is really hard. Um because if it was easy, everybody would do it, right? Um you really have to be honest with yourself and understanding what your mindset is, what you want to do, where you want to be, how you want to do it. Um but people have a hard time like Stephan, you know, a couple friends. It's like the the guys can't hang out with you because they're like you know whatever they don't they're not going to hang out every what often and and you know the like when they make events or perm parties or uh you know Thursday night what's it called like do they invite you? Do they not invite you? Like they don't know if it's awkward or if it's awkward. So, I try and create these environments where I don't have to put people in an uncomfortable situation and if they're interested in in being supportive, if they're interested in reaching out, they will. Um, but you know, I think regardless of any situation, whether you're, you know, in hap even if you're happily married, it's important to have those friends that truly show that they care about you and truly, you know, are empathetic towards everything that you're going through. And I think that's important to be reciprocated. >> I'll tell you relationships in general. >> Mhm. >> You know, partners, uh, friends, uh, business partners, and children and raising children are the two hottest topics of mine that I talk about probably, I would say 50% of my time recreationally when I'm speaking to friends, I talk about this topic. So, I'm very very interested. Uh, but before I ask you a question, I just want to see if she has any questions for you so far on this topic. >> No, it's been very interesting. Um, I think we covered a lot. covered his uh professional life, his journey. I think what I took away is that uh everything's a stepping stone to the next thing and you took each thing individually very seriously. You learned the most you could from that moment uh from that company, from the people that you were working with and you carried that with you to the next thing. And uh it's a long journey. It's it's an adventure and uh some people get there pretty quickly, some people takes a little bit longer, but uh uh you just kept forging on and uh you're still in a lot of ways finding yourself, which is fascinating. And >> and then your personal life, you throw that in there as well. >> Um lot of growth and it really defines you and there's just, you know, so many different variables to you. It's really amazing. You're bringing it all together and um it's inspiring. I think it's very inspiring for other people to see that, you know, >> this is the common struggle. It's what everybody goes through and uh you're smiling, you know, looking as dapper as ever, I may uh may mention, but it's it's wonderful. It really is. I'm impressed. >> I'll add also I've been lucky that a lot of the leadership that I've had in all these experiences have been >> have been supportive and you learn a lot from each other. The same thing, taking out something from them along the way. Um, and I've worked with some of the titans of the industry, I think, is a good word to use, with some of the bigger the biggest um the biggest people. And it's uh it's been it's been really, >> you know, it's been really great. >> Who pushed you the most from all these people that you uh discussing? because you mentioned some real heavy hitters. People who, you know, when when I talk to my friends about operating nursing homes and that space versus another business, I always remind people operating nursing homes, it's one of the most difficult things in the world if you take it seriously and you do it well. >> And you mentioned a lot of names of people that really work 20 hours a day for over a decade to build up what they have. So, I'm curious who pushed you the most. What they do? >> I do want to get back to the whole relationship, but we will we'll get there. I think again maybe it's a tossup between Sim Khimman and Daniel Strauss. Simka was very again also just a he was he was good in a way where he was a no type of guy and also actually was cared about the human aspect um and was very you know directive in certain things and sometimes was just like hey just get this done and then sometimes okay let's talk about it. Um, so it also it made me use my own like uh intuition on certain things without kind of having to um having to drag anything down. Um, and he was very vocal about certain things in a good way. And sometimes it was like, hey, no, just don't do that. You know, you're doing >> Speaking of vocal, anybody that you deal with ever make you feel like crap and yell at you? >> I'm definitely not going to say that out. >> Put you down. No, you don't have to say the names. I'm curious. you've gone through that process of the abuse of power and >> I've tell people all the time um in the team and my leadership and even the people that that work with me and under me it's like personally I'm very good at constructive criticisms constructive so if you like I'll walk out of a meeting and I'll tell you know my team member hey what do you think I could have done differently in that meeting no you're fine I don't think you did anything wrong like well I'll tell you what I think I could have done differently I thought when they mentioned that point it's like oh yeah that's a good point I said so in the future I want to know constructively what you think I could do differently. Don't tell me that you don't like my socks cuz who cares, right? That's not constructive. >> And if someone is is is not talking to you like that and gives you criticism and yells at you, puts you down, how do you react to that? >> You're not you're not supportive a lot of So that's a good question. For the longest time, for most of my career, I would just just swallow it and walk away um and just kind of absorb it. Um, but now through this also kind of like having my own voice and through this healing journey, it's like, hey, like that is not the way to talk to somebody. Let's have a normal what's actually on your mind. What's something that's frustrating you or also what can you do differently? And in the past, it would just be appeasing the situation just to kind of move past it instead of actually dealing with the the underlying points and just instead of >> got it, >> you know, being more >> we're going to have to wrap up soon, but before we do, I just I want to go back to my my point if that's okay. Do we have a few more minutes? Oshi. >> Yeah. It's getting a little bit late, but definitely let's wrap up. But let's hear this last point. I feel like it's going to be a good one. >> Strap in. >> Michael always saves the best for last. >> You know, um I have to tell you that I have a lot of friends. I don't have any acquaintances really. If you're in my phone, you're my friend. And and it means that I shared a moment with you and you can call me and I can call you. And um I have to say I have a lot of single friends. A lot. >> And um some of them who should be single, some of them who shouldn't, but >> I'm not dating yet, by the way. That's what you're helping me out with. But yeah, sorry. >> Uh but you could use this as your should, you know. >> Just watch the podcast, you know. Tell me about yourself. Just watch the podcast. >> Yeah. >> Um don't worry, he's gonna be on Stories for Hope eventually with Sabor Brago. Great story. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, she's coming on our podcast soon, so that'll be fun. Um but you know I I I wanted to mention earlier when it comes to parenting what I've learned a lot is every situation is different and you mentioned here before about marriage also every situation is different >> but there are some general rules and ideas and thoughts that we can share with one another to learn from them similar to what Stephan asked you a minute ago. I've experienced that in my life. You know what are you going to do now? How are you going to be friends with the people? Who are you going to be friends with? And it's a great question Steph. You mentioned something that was really really important to me personally and that's what I want to talk about and we can you know see where this takes us and then and go from there. Um you travel a lot and that put a constraint on your relationship with your family. You mentioned it earlier and I'm curious, you know, you can use that anytime you want. Um but I'm curious, >> thank you Hashem or none of your business. [laughter] >> You can use both. You should use thank you Hashem over and over. Um, I'm curious like was it LA for the first five, 10, 15 years? was, you know, when did the the when did it come up and how did you go through that process and who advised you and how did you The reason why I want to get into the crux of this is because I literally just had a conversation with a friend of mine this morning and he was telling me that someone he knows uh just got divorced and they all think that the reason why they got divorced is because the wife or the ex-wife all her friends were single divorcees >> and instead of you know supporting stay married and work it out which should be the the potentially, you know, the idea for every marriage in my opinion. You do everything you can, right? Which I'd love to hear your perspective. Um, he felt that they were all just being a bad influence on her. Just get divorced. Get divorce. Get divorced. >> And it got me thinking as you're talking like what was your process like? What could we learn from it? What was the challenges? You know, did it go smooth? What can other people learn from it? And I'll end with this. I have a really good friend of mine, um, Ze. he was on this podcast and he may have shared it then and I'll repeat it uh now. He's like it's worth it to lose everything financially in order to gain a healthy relationship with your ex-wife so that your kids are healthy and he did that and kudos to him and um >> so you know I just I'm curious about that process like >> how did it go for you? So, I mean, we don't need to get too much into it. Um, but I think it was, and I kind of alluded to it in the beginning as well of it was it was always a struggle. Um, I think that I didn't know that it was a struggle in the beginning, if that makes sense. >> Sure. >> Um, I think, you know, as a you know, my parents in the beginning too, like when I ask like when you think of divorce, you think of shame. And there was conversations very very early on in our marriage uh where that conversation came up and you know just based on from both sides it's like no no we're not like marriage is hard first year marriage is really really hard like you're you know it's it's hard but you'll figure it out and you know a lot of times I mentioned resources too is that we that's just what we've always kind of thought growing up and how we're raised and my parents have just been you so supportive over the years. I think there's a a real purpose of also listening to your kids as they're maybe struggling through things because we don't know. Um but also it's truly understanding what support that they can what support they can provide. Um but it was always a struggle. Um like I said, I didn't know it was a struggle for for the first few years as as as it was. Did you notice it in your kids? Um, so not not obvious. Yes, obviously there's there's a I know the question always comes up where they say like the studies show that it's better for for kids to be in a two parent household and to be one parent household, but there's also studies that show that if they're in an unhealthy household or a household that isn't the most supportive for, you know, for for for um for growing up, then it's better to have one parent household. And there's been a lot of I I've I've uh experienced a lot of you know push back from some you know people that were like hey like no you should stay married you stay married. like, okay, let's actually talk and and figure it out. And also towards the end, too, I kind of got a little bit of cold feet and I was like, what about my kids? And Rabbi Center, who was always been he's knew me before I got married. He knew me when we were engaged and we lived there for a year and been involved throughout was like, you know, that there's, you know, there's a I was like, what about my kids? He's like, you know, your your your kids will be okay. You know, there's uh and it's a lot. I'm also a coin. So, um, in regards to remarage, >> all the single ladies, that's it. That's the only ones we want paying attention to. >> It's hard. Um, but I I wasn't the thought pro and people would, you know, you can't get remarried so easily. I'm like, I'm not getting divorced to get remarried. Um, that's not my uh, you know, you mentioned like trying something different. It's not uh I know that's what you meant, but um, you know, [clears throat] it's it's uh it's I'm not getting divorced to get remarried. and I'm getting divorced because it was would have been the healthier choice as hard as it was. Um, and you know, it it has its challenges. It's always going to have its challenges, but I respect, you know, I respect um their mother and you know, we have try and have as as most amicable as we can and try to walk through a process that everyone can live a happier and healthier life. >> You know, I joke around with a friend of mine recently and I say to him, uh, you know, I don't know if you want to get divorced. If you get divorced, you're going to have to spend more time with your kids. >> Oh, I I want to spend more time with my kids, >> which is a nice thing. >> Yeah. I mean, it's um it's always great. It's uh it's hard, but again it it's also too you mentioned like I I picked up on it but at that point you didn't know it was in my head but you're talking about kind of why now of all these experiences and why now I've been you know been uh really uh benefiting on these relationships is because I do have a little bit more time um and have a more kind of headsp space to to work on those relationships and continue to develop them and spend time on them even though if I wasn't necessar because again you have >> you have um I had responsibilities um you know so there is uh it definitely has helped the process >> lesson learned or message uh that you can uh tell our listeners of your experiences what would that be >> be a good human being [snorts] >> okay >> I it's I think it's just it's be kind and be curious um be curious um uh >> are you going to let your son get married if he asked you at the age of 21. >> It's well it depends on every circumstance is different. I mean I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just jumping into something but you know I think I think by the time where he's 13 so in uh in eight years I think we'll be in very different spots at that point. Hopefully Mashia will come by then. Who knows? He's saying also different uh support system things and each child is different you know like I mean I think everyone who has kids can attest that kids are personalities are just night and day on some of them and it's interesting to see but um you know it depends. I'm not I'm not going to sit here and say no right now. I don't know what this >> Yeah. No, similar to that there's always a question I I I I like to bring up which is what would you tell your younger self, your 20-year-old self? >> Oh, I mean >> you know >> what I would tell my younger self. I'm sure we can make another podcast out of it, but we're we are wrapping up. >> I would tell my younger self to actually kind of listen listen to your gut to some extent. >> Um I also one of the things I tell people a lot now is that a lot of times we feel like we don't have a choice. We feel like we have to make a decision and we're kind of pressured or we we we're forced into it like I don't have a choice. Um you always have a choice. We all have choices. The problem is is that we're sometimes too scared to make the choice. We're too scared to make that choice because of the consequences of that choice. We're scared to, you know, we're scared to actually step outside the box because what's going to happen if I do? Um, and that's why, you know, I said like be curious because sometimes, you know, I'm not saying to just go off the rails. That's not necessarily healthy. Um, but it's to kind of ask questions, understand who you are, ask questions of yourself, be curious of yourself, not just of the outside. Um, and truly, you know, obviously you have a therapist. I think that that's important for everybody. Um, but also, yeah, like don't don't be scared of those choices if you actually think that it isn't necessarily is necessarily better for you. and have someone that you trust that you can kind of talk to about certain things. >> Wow. Okay, that's all in a nutshell. >> Yeah, I don't know if that's >> um All right. You know, that's almost a wrap, but I have to ask you, if you had to invite someone on this chair to sit here and tell us about their personal professional growth, >> who would that be and why? >> So, [laughter] hard-hitting questions. >> I like putting you on hard-hitting questions at the end. I don't think I'm not blushing him. I know. Um um there's a uh COO for Ignite Medical Resorts. Are you familiar with them? Um they're a great group out of uh based out of Chicago. Uh Tim Fields is their CEO. Um Barry Carr is one of the owners and um their COO is now their CO. His name is Matt Thangle. Um Matt is he was our chief rehab officer. So from the physiatry side um we work a lot with the rehab teams. So, um, I got to know Matt. Um, I think he's a fantastic person, a fantastic human being, and a fantastic operator. Um, we connected on on a a close personal level, but also from a business level. And I think, you know, when you think of good operators, there are some really good ones, and then there are some really not such good ones, and then there are some great ones. Um, I think Matt and the Ignite team is fantastic. What sets them apart? their culture that they develop that they build within their team, within their employees is fantastic. Their facilities are run really well, but also like he gets it and I think that he's a a good person to talk about his experience. He's also a family came in as an immigrant um Indian family and just has established his roots and understanding of what he wants to do for his patients and his people and he's been with the organization for the longest time and >> beautiful. Do you think he'll ever come to New York? Does he come here? I mean, I I think I would think we can maybe convince him to come out for something. Who knows? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I don't know if it's the type to call him now, but we'll uh >> we could try. >> Why not? Might as well. [laughter] That's >> We could try. >> We learned from our experiences that doing things live and unedited and >> do they pick up? >> Yes. Yes, it's happened. We've gotten several guests on in that scenario. So, >> Matt, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. You're on speaker. I'm actually on a podcast right now. [snorts] Um, so I just did a podcast with Michael uh Michael Greenfield and Ushi Schwarz. The podcast is called None of Your Business. And they asked me who I think would be a good person to come on the podcast next that I've learned a lot from. And u just kind of seen as a as a good person. And the the um the theme of what we've been talking about a lot is about myself. That's a that's you know being just a good human being in relationships and and and uh being curious and I thought you know who better than you. Um well this is really on the spot. This is interesting. Um but I I thought you'd be a good person for it. They're based out here in New York. I don't know what your schedule is but I thought it would be this is a a cold call um to talk a little bit about your experience and you know your personal life and your uh business life and you know obviously about Ignite. >> Okay. So you're So you're in. >> Yeah, I think so. That sounds great. >> All right. We're looking >> If Elliot's doing it, I'll do it. >> Ah, that's great. Thank you. That's what we're looking forward to. We're looking forward to meeting you in person. Heard a lot about you. Thank you so much. >> Thanks, Matt. Pleasure. >> That's how it's done. By the way, this is this is the pinnacle of cold call. >> I think he may have been the best salesman as far as soliciting someone to get focused. >> I agree. >> You did the best pitch. You did it very respectfully. You also sprinkle in a little bit of like uh compliments, flattery, but very tastefully done. >> Um that was eloquent. That was a masterclass. I like the way >> you're very good at your trac. >> It was almost like he couldn't say no. >> Right. >> It would have been like if you own or operate a nursing home or an assisted living facility and you want to look at your expenses and evaluate them to see where you can save without compromising quality, we don't charge a fee for our service. We audit your expenses and we do a great job. Prime Source is sponsoring this episode. Thank you so much for Elliot for being on the None of Your Business podcast. We really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Um we also like to ask if you have any questions for us before we wrap up. It >> looks like she wants to go. [laughter] >> That's a wrap.