Pedaling through life Rabbi Spivak, MHC-Part 2

a good friend of mine comes to me in SHO and says I just got back from bike forai and it is the most unbelievable experience for the most unbelievable call right and and and just he says iron you have to do that next year you have to do bike for I'm like so I'll do it okay step one learn to ride a bike none of your business Sushi none of your business Michael it's the none of yours business podcast hosted by Michael anoshi welcome back everybody for part two of the two-part series which became never had this before never happened but we had to this this is really accolades to you is that we we could keep this conversation going and going that we have to we need more yeah we want more we want an encore we want we demand I'm actually enjoying uh listening you know i' I've practiced for over 5 years already the concept of listen listening and the uh therapy that I started 5 years ago so I'm appreciating this discussion so much because a lot of what you're saying resonates with me in my Beginnings um I've learned a lot from you Rabbi and tools that I've effectively made positive change in my life and that's why I'm so happy that you're here guys this uh episode as always is sponsored by Prime Source we can't do it without uh our partner's help so thank you everybody for participating in our journey of growth please don't forget to like subscribe and follow I must say that as always we need your help help to grow because together we are stronger we can't do this without everybody's help uh Rabbi we're back for round two and uh it's a continuation of our first discussion which we were talking about your journey of being a rebi being a therapist learning the difference between uh being guilty in doing something uh the the contrast between avoiding something versus having control of something we've learned so much we want to take it to the next level the next journey of your life when you of course were selected as the rabbi of such a beautiful in our community and um I I would love to learn about your experiences that go on in that scho and what happens at kides and how do you deal with kidish Club in general what do you do about talking you know you know I I I have the privilege of being what uh my community calls the beetle of my Sho because I make the announcements you see I used to be part of shoes that fought a lot and I live you the GU of your Sho no I'm just the announcer that's all I do I get up and doesn't make the announc NOP The Gabby takes care of the uh of the to Hill him he takes care of the announcing for uh health of people in the community takes care of uh announcing the person that comes up to the Torah what are you announcing I just announce the times and I announced the mlvs you realize that's very strange right yeah it's a beetle it's a no no most trolls yes I do realize it's strange yeah it's different strange in a good way go makes those announcements absolutely Public public address well I'm telling you that in in ancient times it was called a beetle look it up Google it with a staff and someone that you know announces the king and so on it's a specific skill set because a lot of times the Gabby is a very organized person has very personable has good relationships with everybody knows how to knows all the but they don't have that loud articulate voice and when they get up to make an announcement people like what what is so having somebody who you know can make that announcement and now and everyone be heard has the loud projected voice clearly articulated words so Rabbi I'm gonna sounds like Michael to I'm gonna jump right into it and I'm going to tell this to you because this happened in uh my and um I'm not afraid to share it because this is what we do here we're transparent vulnerable appreciate it as much others definitely don't appreciate it and um you know look when I came back after October 7th to my sh I felt that I needed to talk about October 7th I'm not the rabbi I'm not the Gabi in fact all I am is the announcer like you said all I am is the guy that can project articulately you know say maff to the right families and remember the father's name and the brother's name and make everyone feel good but when I came back from Israel I felt the need to mention something about October 7th and what I did was is that I announced to the sh before I said the times and the mazl I said good shabas everybody and I started like I always do welcome to all of our guests thank you to our gab and to oural I always start off the same way way this week I was at a college campus where there's tremendous hate going on on campus and I went with a Grassroots effort of a few good men and women out of the Rockland County community and MSY community and we went to sing and we went to hold you know each other you know together and and really give that feeling of akas of togetherness of that we're here together as Jews and we're here for you and I invite anybody in the congregation that would want to come with me I'll be going for the next six Thursdays together with people in the community I invite you to come and Ma to this and kides is sponsored by that and I finished afterwards somebody came over to me and said is it your place to invite people to a to a congre uh to a get together on a college campus where men and women are together mixed and they're singing and dancing together is that your place to invite people who do you think you are this is what he told me my response to him was listen you do your part and keeping quiet during daving and you know not saying Lush and Har and I'll do my part and this is just what I feel I feel like I have the podium I have the right to do it okay the second week came and I made a different announcement of something else that I did did the rabbi say anything to you no did the rabbi have an problem and by the way it's it's a it's a Bor uh Shool which means that the sh hires the rabbi so you know the board can come to me at any time and stop me but that's not what was happening I hate those people in the sh people in the are not real it happens to be that the rabbi has very limited power as soon as the rabbi's part of a board true and he's controlled now and he can't be entirely himself what's the purpose of having a rabbi no that's that's very difficult though no it's very difficult cuz if the rabbi's in charge completely the ru that means he's responsible for The KES and the shalis and the malas and there's too many responsibil notive decision he's he's also the hired CEO he's a hired CEO and he could do just as good as a job hiring him to give him that I will tell you as the rabbi of a board SCH I have never found the board to interfere with the work that I want to do in the sh exactly as long as you give the power to the rabbi to make all decisions yet okay a lot of things I haven't found yet but uh but you have to admit that it's very possible when something goes against the grain that they don't like they can apply the pressure and they can put their thumb on the skill and they they can outweigh the rabbi but but here's the thing I don't view my position as the rabbi and the sh as being the ultimate Authority in all things right that's not my role my role is to number one make halakic decisions set all and this is clearly articulated in the SCH Constitution that it is my authority you know to answer or to to deal with any religious issues that need to be answered from a religious perspective and to to give the education to decide who gets to speak in the sh and who doesn't get to speak in the sh like my role is clearly articulated and the board is there to to assist me and to take off of my shoulders the things that don't have to be in my Lane if you're putting it like that that's great but it sounds to me like in most cases there is a board as a checks and balance for the rabbi meaning we don't want the rabbi to have certain uh decision- making that might not sit well with us as the people and therefore we want to control how much infiltration can have into our lives and how far he can take certain things look I come from a background where I went TOS my whole life from my background obviously when I got married I never went to see the shs again and I got to see both sides of the spectrum right there's two types of shs there's a sh where the rabbi the end right he's usually called a rebba in most cases because he started the show because heed and he says whatever he wants and everybody follows he's a spiritual Rabbi he guides everybody and whatever he says is what we're going to do whether we like it or not he going like too bad we made an active decision that we're going to f then you have the other sh where the rabbi serves a certain purpose and the rabbi gets paid and he's it's it's a job is really what it is and there's a board and nobody gets to make any decision on its own the board has to approve it now the board will give the space for the rabbi to be the chairman and therefore the rabbi can make certain decisions that they allow him to make but as soon as something goes a little bit far to the point that the the sh Bo doesn't like anymore they can outnumber the round what's wrong and what's wrong with that so I I I don't know if so for me it's not what's wrong with it I think it's just what people are used to what people want I see pros and cons on both sides I see pros and cons on both Sid I've experienced both sides as well I must say that I'm not a fan of a control Sho by a board I'd rather have it by a rabbi but I see how well it works when you have the community that worries about everything else in other words when you have a rabbi run and you have a problem with the way the food is or the drink is or the size of the or what time things start or end it's all the rabbi you have zero say I'd rather it I I I'd rather have that in a way because it comes along with the Rabbi says everything but I see I really not only do I see the Merit I appreciate the fact that I'm part of a that the community is standing behind each other they're all supporting each other and they bring in a rabbi that doesn't need more than his job to do his job properly he doesn't need that no you bring in a sounds very celebratory what is the sounds like symbol more than an actual position that I think people need what is the role of a rabbi why don't you tell usbody be back okay we're like Mak good point yeah yeah the sub matter expert is in the room exactly exactly you want to talk about sales marketing you can come to us I would far from consider myself the expert on the rabbis role but I will tell you that what you're describing in the two different types of shs there is the rabbi as the authority figure right listen you grow up there's the parent parents and then there's the teachers and the principal and then when you're an adult the the authority figure is the rabbi right I you know I'm not I don't love that role I don't want to be in that role personally and I'm not looking for someone to have that authority over me in my life in that way I subscribe to the model of the rabbi as a resource in the lives of the people for the purpose of Education inspiration guidance when it's sought right not a person who is going to usurp the autonomy of the individual right my I'll give people come they learn they enjoy they walk away right you you come you have it start your day with with a half hour gamar and you walk out of your day your day is different you're coming there's a certain spirituality a certain positive energy that you're walking away with you sat with 12 other people in your Sho right and Rabbi gave a gamar here that was interesting hopefully right and you connected you learned something right when you have a question big or small you have somebody who's available that you can ask you come to sh and hopefully adasia inspires you right that's not celebratory that's a very valuable role in the lives of the people it does not have to be I need my rabbis permission to X Y and Z right a rabbi does not need to be that now are there times and are there communities where that was called for maybe right but that's not what the role of a rabbi has to be right I am not looking to be the authority figure in anyone's life right my kids as long as they need that right and then you know and only for the sake of their development right and then for my kids as early as possible I turn over autonomy of their lives to them as much as is functional for them right so certainly the congr in my community many of whom are older than me have right I'm not looking to be the authority in their life right it's not a role I want and you know we could talk about what's more ideal what's less ideal but you can be in a board run Shool where the rabbi is a very vital part of the Sho a very instrumental role in the lives of the community but not hold the reins of power and I think that's the distinction that we can make so I I hear okay that's very well explained and I agree there's a certain Rabbi model that way that's built but I want to give you another side of the coin and you said something that I immediately in my mind triggered as I want a rabbi as a resource what you said um I don't look as my Rabbi as a resource and I'm actually in the opposite side of the coin where I would fail in a system like this I would fail I think I'd become worse than a worse Jew to the point i' probably stop going to SCH at some point I actually need that kick in the butt I actually need to have somebody who tells me which I don't like sometimes and it's not you know at that moment I feel annoyed and I feel frustrated but when I have more clarity in my mind later on I actually appreciate it I need to have that fire of I have somebody out there who's watching me who's managing me and if I get a little bit out of line I got a little smack I need to have that control and I know because I know ultimately it's good for me right if you tell children in a classroom there's going to be no teacher anymore you guys are going to do whatever you want from now on they're going to go yay they're going to cheer they're going to it's amazing but then a couple of weeks later the kids oh my God this is terrible it's Anarchy nobody likes that it's chaos even kids will realize that I need some structure this is not fun anymore they're going to start beating each other up it's going to be terrible I believe that today's generation everybody speak back and tell me if you can resonate with this a little bit in today's generation I'm talking about the guys that are you know uh 40 and younger 40 and younger from age 25 when you start going to your own School up to the point you go to like you know your father's Shool then you go to when you get married you go to a local Shool whever you live in your apartment you don't have a real connection to that sh when you get married and you have kids and you move to a neighbor the first time you go to a sh those shes today for a majority I'm being very bold here I'm not saying just for myself I'm saying a majority of people that are in the mainstream like me need to have that Rabbi it's good for us and I'll challenge anybody who thinks it's not needs to have that Rabbi that is that power that has that Authority because of all the things that are going on in the world today and the exposures that we have and the options that we have we have freedom we have real Freedom today let's not kid ourselves and we could easily stir up from the right and left I think we the the rabbi that is there where you're our resource and yes you give the shurm you inspire us you make a beautiful speech shabas more if that's what they become I fear that that is not going to be going to work in the long run for today's generation because we're not as good as the older generation there's one big difference I have I have to we're different we need to have that power I'm sorryi there's one big difference we're adults is a big difference doesn't matter with adults you know what happens that I've learned over the years of of dealing with kids teenagers that become adults and adults that have addiction problems I keep hearing this over and over again Rabbi please confirm this you know to our listeners at a certain age a very young age I might add it's up to the person himself to actually seek out the tools and the resources that we put in front of them so that's why I'm the board Rabbi speac system fan more than the rabbi telling you where were you yesterday for shakas I didn't see you come at 9:00 you're coming late what's happening with you everything okay no than okay I I I by the way I'm so passionate by the way about this like I I not not only do I disagree I I thank God I thank God I thank God that that that you know we we have both options available because because I I really think that it would be a downhill battle if we wouldn't have this and if it was their policy and that there and it comes to a there has to be a board and they have to have decision-making Power by the way you don't think the board gets in the way of spiritual decisions you it happens you don't think the board I cannot think of one spiritual decision and I'm in my shol now it'll be four years in September I cannot think of one spiritual decision where the board got in my way not one or they not got in the way but they had a little influence or they of course they influence okay influence it's my job to give what the people need so I I I need to look to the the elected representatives of the congregation to find out what the people need but what if you felt one way very strongly and the all of them all seven other people on the board didn't feel that way a spiritual relig we really want to do it this way un for a little bit and a spiritual he end being I would make my decision based on the needs of the people because that's the most critical thing a rabbi right if if you're just making it if you're just leading a generic congregation and hope the people sitting in front of you fall into the way the congregation is supposed to be so you're not going to be effective so obviously obviously I'm gonna I'm I'm going to look to what the PE but I'm I want to back up for a second here you are adamant that you need that type of Rabbi who's going to hold you accountable I'm going to tell you one thing and this goes back to our conversation from last time I don't want to psychoanalyze you in front of the world uh oh this connects to the fact that you are not yet at a place where you trust your own will my will is not trustworthy what I want and what I'm supposed to be is the Paradigm that I want live by right I'm not a good enough Jew because I'm and because I'm trying I'm pushing myself to be something that's different than my own will I'm not going to get there by my will my will is not going to push me there so I need the outside influence to push me there the day that you turn take the Reigns of your Judaism in your hands and say what is my will tell me of the type of Judaism I want and how I'm what is my will what is my Nish what is what am I connecting to what does it mean to me in my life you're not going to need the rabbi to tell you where were you today because it's going to be about your will your will doesn't make excuses I think you're giving all of us a little too much credit I think that a lot of people are in that place where they're not totally trusting themselves yes um by the way you know what I I go back to this you you know what the real barometer of a rabbi board versus a you know all empowered supreme leader Rabbi you know what the real barometer the difference is can you can the people fire the rabbi I think that that question needs to be answered if the people can fire the rabbi I don't think that Rabbi truly has the tools he needs to do his job and to be motivating and inspiring his congregation if he feels at any point that he's in Jeopardy then he's automatically as a human being is going to make certain decisions that not in the best interest of what he thinks the community needs because he's always having to look over his shoulders he's got to look over his back and suddenly he can't make those decisions what's good for God what God wants he's got which is what I want my Rabbi to be if I can't be the guy let him be the guy and let him be the one that's inspiring me to get me there and by the way I want a rabbi does it with a finesse he does it with tact skillfully not a rabbi he just like like you know we're talking about a qualified Rabbi obviously right some who the people want we brought you in we voted for you we brought you in but once you bring him in give him the power if let him do job why are you restricting it just just to clarify if the whole congregation would decide we want to talk during prayer the entire time correct and this is the kind of synagogue that we I'm assuming this wouldn't be a good fit then if that's what everyone decides right I'm saying I'm asking you so interesting the the um I guess I'll give away like behind the door Secrets my first interview with the ritical search committee oh they said what is that you explain what that is yeah like America's Got talent for rabbis no no no this was you know when our was looking for a new Rabbi and it's part of the big story good great story okay and um so they formed a committee sure to find the right candidates to interview so when I met that before I met with the board I met with that with that committee and the first thing they asked me was did um you know how how were you going to handle talking in sh right and my answer was I first need to have relationships with people right so if the whole SCH came said Rabbi we don't care about talking during SCH anymore right and we want and we representing the whole congregation want want you stop saying the M for those who don't talk during you know during daving you do that yes you say m for the people that don't talk yeah so in essence you're singling out the people that do talk you're only giving a mish to the people that didn't talk that the the the to wrote a special right should give special Bros to those who don't talk during d That's like saying if you give a m for the soldiers that you're singling out the ones that not it's a oh you're not saying people's names oh I'm sorry IOD it's okay we do this by me also by the way yeah cuz I'm not a fan of that including including I don't think anyone's a fan of that using shame as a vehicle for change exactly I'm sorry you spoke this week you're out you're out you're out that's a Kumbaya Moment by the way at least that we have here so listen if that's where the people were right we we don't care about not talking during toony so I have three choices right I can fight them I can walk away and talk about what horrible people they are and and oh my God what a disastrous kahila that was and I'm so glad to be away from it or I can say this is where the people are how am I being a resource so they can connect closer to Hashem right you don't have to be at any particular place to have a person in your life who is a resource to help you use the Torah to live your best life to connect to Hashem so I don't I don't need to Lord myself and my authority over people right like like K said they're adults right they adults and so much of what I try to motivate people is to feel autonomy over their lives right so much whether it's my therapy clients whether whoever it is you know take ownership of your life find your values live your values unless they conflict with what I think you should do right that that that that'd be contradictory to my whole message right so I I'm very content in a board Sho and as long as the board decides that and the board representing the people right the board has this like evil feel to it right the board is are the people people that that that theila as long as the Kila represented by the board feels that I am an effective resource in helping them live their best life through the Torah and connecting to Hashem I'm happy to come do that and give of myself what I can and the day and the day that they decide that I'm not that person anymore then I'll walk away so be it now like that I'll throw in a caveat not so not so be it not so be it so be it means like okay what it means it's time for me to move on I not just to be I will respect it I will respect the autonomy of people who have who I've developed connections with and when they tell me it's time for this relationship in its current form to to end because what we need the resource we need is somebody different something different I'll respect it and I'll shake hands and I'll say thank you and it was a wonderful however many years right or maybe time will come where I'll say it's time for me to move on in the same way I moved you but I don't need to have this now I'll throw in it's really important right where you get into a messy situation where you said that how can the rabbi really say what he honestly thinks if the board can fire them right in the same way that I had an exit strategy for the um for leaving education because I didn't want the paying of the bills to be the necessary means to keep me captive in a classroom right I try maybe I shouldn't say this publicly because it'll be held against me in in contract negotiations but I try that in my financial life my sh salary not make the difference whether or not I'm I'm going to lose my house right I have my therapy practice you know my wife and I together have our have our therapy business together so so you know again I'm not going to say too much because I don't want to held against me when I'm negotiating a contract I do want to hear what you and your wife have though that's interesting what what is that you talk about that yeah but before we do I want to just make one more point on this not to belabor the point so so a rabbi who who who as soon as the tells him you know you're dismissed from your position now he's the bank is going to foreclose on his house that's a that's a problematic Dynamic that that I get but I hear I I just have a very negative association when I hear that there was a rabbi of a he was there for an extended period of time and then one day he was fired I'm like what what does that mean he was fired was the whole thing wasn't real to begin with then this whole thing was a fake from the start and I I'll explain why Greg papovich right he's a very famous uh Larry Brown right very famous basketball coaches that have had years and years decades of success like nobody knows how to coach a basketball team better than those two and there are others as well on that list but right you take those people they're amazing at coaching you don't fire Greg papovich Greg papovich retires Larry Brown tires that's what happens right you see them through until the very end okay now at a certain point maybe they get very old and maybe they're not as capable they don't have the same energy anymore okay so you put them somewhere on the side they become more celebratory at that moment like Tiger Woods today playing golf is very celebratory everybody knows right he's just a staple of the game so you so you don't you don't suddenly get rid of Tiger Woods because he's not doing the job anymore you keep him around and you bring in the next batch of people right that's fine that's okay to me when I think of a rabbi if they respect the rabbi enough because I want to like this is the person I trust then you didn't pick the right Rabbi if you don't to begin with the job of that Community when they form together and say let's go to this area let's build few houses let's buy houses and let's all start a community is what we did in our community which is what we did you have to bring at that a real decision to make collectively who do we trust and go through the process and you know one at a time bring in rabbis for a couple of months once at a time and test them out no problem but it's got to be at a certain point where you make a decision that this is the person I want to follow not because you know I might not like everything they say and that's okay because for the greater good there has to be this commitment it's a marriage it's a marriage there has to be a commitment and at a certain it's good for you it's good for your soul it's good for your family I not I don't trust myself you're right I have kids I don't think I make every right decision that's best for my kids but you know from a spiritual standpoint there is the rabbi who I trust vly almost blindly almost blindly that sometimes I'm imagined that I don't even know why he's saying this and I don't agree with him but you know what I chose to trust him because overall he'll make more better decisions than I will and I don't think this is a lack of me not trusting myself hey you should have more trust yourself yeah maybe I should maybe I should bring it up a little bit maybe I should but never to the point where I want my Rabbi to just be a figurehead I want my Rabbi to be you know a job where you know you can quit you can you can move on just that's like that's not real that's not that's not a real tangent relationship that I think a person why does in the mishas they say the first thing they say is I think one of the and make a rebi for yourself right obviously everybody translates that differ it's up for interpretation the way I interpret is get a rabbi who you trust who you're going to follow and who's going to shape the decisions that you make and is going to guide you that's how strongly I feel about it I must I must interject I'm sorry because it says make yourself a rabbi give yourself a rabbi it doesn't and nor would it ever say gather a 100 people and make all of them you're Rabbi the game changes in the community no my point is the game in the community changes the game in the NBA never changes the community changes you're going to get older your kids are going to get older the demographic might change and the needs of the rabbi might change that's why it's different in I think the got it right in this one I think got it right in this one actually the fact the on that no they didn't no they're the ones that come into communities and change the game suddenly the rabbi doesn't fit the mold for the community anymore because the community has been taken over by it happened you have a forever marriage we can go a lot of places I I'll I'll finish my piece of this conversation by saying this you said it wasn't real a relationship does not have to be lifelong in order for it to be real okay okay fair you can have a friendship you can have any kind of relationship that is Meaningful connected powerful and then it's time it's that's a powerful message that's a powerful message in everything in life in everything you do in life just like you said last time which is you know you wake up in the morning you take what you have and you go from there you don't start your balance sheet out perfect right it just doesn't work that way right so when I when I left the classroom right it was painful I I made the choice right and it was my choice and it was painful because here was a part of my life that was so wrapped my ident was so wrapped up in it and I was I really had a lot of confidence I knew that I was really effective I was really good at what I did and I'm letting that go and to develop the the the internal strength to say I am not giving it up I'm ending right this chapter of my that chapter of my life my years in the classroom will always be part of my life part of my story it's meaningful it didn't get cheapened because it didn't last the rest of my life and and yeah so relationships can be real and then still have an expiration dat makes sense I totally do I like what you're saying it's not a so beit or it is what it is it's a meaningful till it was by the before we move on from the rabbi discussion you got to tell us your best Rabbi joke oh my best Rabbi joke you know I also want to hear after your joke you're one pet peeve about being a rabbi oh boy we don't want to leave this topic we like it too much do you have a good Rabbi joke so rabbis don't tell Rabbi jokes rabbis tell oh okay okay okay go for it h so there's so many of them I'll tell you I'll tell I tell you a a a rabbi joke right that's more like a talmudic type Rabbi joke guy comes to the rabbi and says Rabbi I want to build a house but I don't know how so he says well you're in luck the gamar the T gives very clear instructions on how to build a house so he says really show me and the rabbi takes the guy over to the bookcase pulls out the gar opens says if you read this do from top to bottom right tells you exactly how to build a house the guy is thrilled takes the garah he goes to Home Depot he buys everything the gar says he needs to get and he follows the instructions it's going beautifully He is building this gorgeous Colonial and he puts in the last nail and he says it's time to go invite everyone from the kanuka celebrate the new house and as he's walking out he closes the door door behind him and the whole house collapses into a heap he like what happened and he comes to the rabbi and says Rabbi I followed everything the gamar said I was so careful to the tea I got all the right materials and the tools and I followed the instructions so well and then my house collapsed when I closed the door and the rep says yeah that's toa's question that's great oh that's great that's a good Rabbi joke you see I like that that's actually very funny now that's good that's great all right so what about go back to the pet peeve I like that question go back to the pet peeve what was as a rabbi was a pet peeve probably other rabbis as well probably experienc but for you personally what's your pet peeve as for being a rabbi that you have to deal with and it's super annoying so I'm not gonna call it a pet peeve I'll say what is something that I have recognized to be a part of the job that I didn't realize was beforehand good way to say it see this excent there's a better way of diplomatically rephrasing your question excellent and it's you know when people ask a question and they want black and white answers where a black and white answer is not appropriate right all people ask me uh do I have to sit in the Suka under these conditions I'll say well it's going to depend you have to decide if this is distressing Enough To You Right like so do I or don't I right I'm like when when I very often if I tell people here are the parameters under which you need to make that decision it's your call I will tell you the parameters under which you should make the decision and people don't like that just tell me what to do right and so that is something that have a bunch of ushi running around ask you what to do exactly yeah it's great but Michael don't exaggerate no no no no no I don't appreciate that don't like make this now into like you know almost in a mockery I don't ask the rabbi permission to go to the bathroom that's not what the intention was obviously but where people who want to try to make their point they start putting down your point you see what he just did here you see what he just did you make a caricature of the other person's point exactly yes is that that's it was done well it was done well done well by the way yes thank you if you would have a rabbi that wasn't part of a you wouldn't have done that to your point my Rabbi was asked should Michael get up and talk about Israel that's exactly what the question was that was brought a fair question yeah and it wasn't a yes or no question it was a discussion well but your rabbi's part of a board so he doesn't have all that much say so Michael Greenfield standing up but is it a spiritual question or is it not that that's what the question was I think it intertwines one right that's why it's not black and white that's what the rabbi's saying I'm resonating with what you're saying with exactly what I I I gave as a sample yeah do you think that the rabbis I I have to apologize for you I was waiting this entire time to bring out this gift and I think now is the perfect time it's always a perfect time for I'm not sure what you mean you were waiting for the perfect I was I figured when is it not a I figur I might be a little bit too much you know and you might get like whoo and that's what happens so I it happens from time to time so I have always with me gifts waiting for me to give to youut I always accept gifts yeah it's always a good time I will only give them at appropriate times though so okay anyways last time we sat with you Rabbi we asked you what your favorite book was do you remember what you said yes I remember and I said what did I say I said i' I'm ordering it right I said I'm ordering it right now it came in and ushi I bestow upon you The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People beautiful you know I'd love to read yes so you know like I'm going to read this cover to cover wow 15 million copies sold Rabbi why did you suggest this book so why did I suggest this book so it is up there on the books that I appreciate I don't know if I have it ranked as number one um I just I suggested it because when our discussion last time right we were talking about how to most effectively manage situations and manage the time and and and approach a project well I just want to say in full transparency we came to you for advice and we asked you point blank we're starting a podcast and we know that we're going to be speaking to people and this is our demographic and we want to really make the best impact in the shortest amount of period of time and that's what the discussion was so kudos to you Rabbi for really taking your time and speaking to us about that topic and um I'm a strong believer and for the record my advice was not well if you wanted to be successful you have to bring me on no no that was our it took us months it took us months we have to really I think we only said one Rabbi joke and that thank you Stan exactly carried away uh we had to really proud you to come you know so continue what was that what was that point that you were making with this book so don't remember exactly what the point was the reason why you recommended this book at the time so I'm trying the habits The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People right so this book the idea of approaching things systematically oh because of the win-win I believe that one of his habits yes of Highly Effective People is you think win-win that when you approach a situation looking to you know squeeze the other party as much as possible to get as much with they giving a little right that never works out well in the long run doesn't right and that's that's the way um you know a lot of our discussions have included those elements but that was one idea did we touch on sharpening the saw as well I don't remember no let's do that now no what is that sharpening the saw is fantastic it's an old um it's an old Parable I don't think he didn't make this up but uh there's a Woodsman in the woods and he's got a saw and he's sawing away at a tree trying to cut it down and he's like three hours sewing away at the same tree and the kid comes by and says Mister why is it taking you three hours to cut down that tree he says well my saw is really really D so doesn't cut very fast he says why don't you Sharp the saw right says well I'm so behind schedule that if I take the 20 minutes needed to sharpen the saw right I'll fall 20 minutes further behind I don't have that time you see it's already taking me three hours to cut down the tree right highly effective people says Steven cavy take make and take the time to keep the saw sharp right you take the time no matter how hectic your life may be whether it's leisure whether it's therapy whether it's whether it's you know person professional development whatever is needed to keep you on The Cutting Edge to keep you a most effective so if it takes you a couple of hours a week or more right but now everything else you do is more efficient and more productive so it's time well spent sure I love that that's that's like I can't wait for you to read the book I'm going to get very smart now yeah I'm going to become a rabbi I think I'm going to I guess we could why don't you guys now I'll turn to you and ask the questions that's it I'm taking over go ahead I like idea you want the rabbi is the [Laughter] authority how do you guys keep the saw sharp how do we keep the saw sharp of what though of life our emotional part Our lives our side our our personal side our family side let's say from to one of us and ask a specific question we're happy to answer or granular what do you do that is not directly connected to your business well you know what we've spoken a lot so I'm going to turn I'm going to turn in your direction now what do you do in your life that's not directly related to the goals you're trying to accomplish but makes you more efficient at accomplishing them easy question to answer I meditate every day I Zen that's what it is I don't I have a hard time praying from a sitter it I I find it uh you know difficult to repeat the same words and Find meaning over and over again I do see the value of saying it in certain words that are meaningful for me for example when I leave the bathroom I always say the certain prayer that you know brings meaning new to me every time and that was taught to me by me too Mr Rosen waser so funny we share that com when I every time I come out the bathroom is like one of the things that I actually do consistently is I sayat every time I just appreciate it that you know yeah so F I love it so in general I but but the concept of praying in the morning is so important in general if you look at it from a perspective of Zen or meditation or just connection to your own self you'll have a better time in throughout your day and that's what I find helps me so that's what I do I scale back my time how much time does that take you the meditation honestly I'm I'm not I'm not going to exaggerate five minutes five minutes yeah what does those what do those five minutes give you in terms of productivity in terms of uh it gives me collection of my thoughts and prioritizing my day that's really what it does every single day I think about what I have in front of me like you said earlier I've learned that from you already that today starts off at a at it's already great I have so much to be thankful for what do I want to accomplish so that's that's what helps me how much time do you save in your day from a productivity standpoint because you spend those five minutes probably a few hours yeah yeah it's a great point so that's the concept of sharpening this I love that Rabbi I have to ask you you're you're an avid cyclist I know didn't you come here with your bicycle today absolutely how long did that I came here with one of my bicycles how many bicycles do you own uh at the moment four what's the most expensive bike you own is my Tre Domani okay Bor please close your ears I'm joking but how much does that cost so retail price I'm saying forget about what you got it for I didn't I didn't buy it the whole time retail price what does it go for I I didn't buy it in one piece bought different comp what's the value of that bike brand new that is an $8,000 bike wow amazing that's a lot it's amazing it's a great investment in the circles in which I run it is that that's not highend people spend more than that I'm sure yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that is amazing so do you do you compete in competitions I I the only competitive cycling I do is virtually there's like on the Pelon well it's not pelaton um it's a different platform called Swift I don't know if we okay you know advertising for sft sure we advertise for anything that works but something virtual yeah but it's where where one of my four bikes is on a on a um a smart trainer that reads my power and the platform knows knows my my body metrics and there are race there are races where I'm racing with people in lot in real time wow and um where are you ranking like how how do you do in terms of per hour or minute how does it work so in cycling I'm not sure we were asking I wasn't either sure I'm asking General how fast do you cycle uh a c finish St what position are you trying to say like where he's you know up to in the competition so in in in zift in this platform the race rankings are a b c and d oh okay I didn't realize it so I'm am in C Rank and I'm basically at the top of C rank wow in most of my races a couple years back I was actually where they had worldwide rankings I was number one wow wow that that's a very big deal when are you going to go to B how do you get to Group B so so every season I get upgraded because my fitness and my power numb move up and then even as you're getting older what well throughout the season it goes up and then Ironically in the outdoor season where I'm writing Outdoors this workout is less structured so I start the next season back and see and work my way back up to till I'm upgraded again to be it's a whole so again so how long did it take you to get here today by bike so I didn't check around because it's hot and I'm wearing dress clothes I I pedal really soft I I I was probably moving 12 13 miles an hour which is maybe 14 miles an hour cuz not right so it's a 20-minute drive for me to get here how long did talking about from an efficienc right okay there we go now I understand where we're going yeah I probably spent 35 40 minutes getting here when I spend 20 minutes on a car you only spent 40 and you got here with exercise Andra that's amazing yeah it takes us 20 minutes with a car going about 50 miles an hour wow wow I guess he's going a more you have a different path getting here like a more direct path it's a it was a the route I took is nine miles wow but you don't you don't obviously use your phone you're not you know what do you do what do you do while you're biking do you do so it really depends on the type I do different types of biking so I do bike commuting which is the type I did get in here and then you know I I might be listening to something I um or I might be just thinking and just letting my mind wander and then when I do real Fitness riding like you know yesterday I did a you know about a 50 mile ride up up a mountain 50 miles wow up air Mountain what that's amazing wait wait a second you biked 50 miles that's not a long ride what's the longest you've ever can't drive the longest I've ever yeah 162 miles oh my goodness you biked 162 miles my son this was in like 2017 my son or 2018 one no 2019 18 anyway my son was up sleep away camp in the cat skills and I got up in the morning I dive in theik and I dive in shakas right at Sunrise hopped on my bike rode out there had lunch with him hot back on the bike wow how long is bike forai just for context bike for Kai is about depending about 180 miles between two days so they break and you did all that in one morning not one morning I got back you went to him for lunch right and I got back of course but I'm saying but one day he did it yeah one day right were your legs on fire so no because I I I do proper training I usually don't ask questions but I'm curious about one thing when you have to go somewhere do you ever like think oh I'll just drive or was like of course I'm taking the bike so when I have to go somewhere the first option is O can I bike there wow right that's the first question you know and uh that's that's always that's always better I you know I was 16 years old I got my driver's license I sat in the car and um it was really fun and exciting for 10 minutes I'm like yeah you want to hear a really fun fact please okay you love fun facts so I'm I I'm a very like you said very Avid cyclist I am the captain of the local bike for Kai team oh I'm a big member of the of the cycling Community here you know we have a big ride coming this Sunday I'm you making the I'm you know I ride between real life and virtual thousands and thousands of miles a year are you one of the guys that wear like those tight uh spe things you know and spandex spandex right lra everyone does they all do yeah I always thought some of them should not it should be illegal for some of them guys I'm sorry I agree and also my wife agrees yeah we all agree all of us driving by but I'll tell you what it's looks super uncomfortable it doesn't look like it's even comfortable like I'm not sure the purpose of it I'd rather just like wear you know shorts you know free freestyle shorts and like free full shorts whatever like it's very tight like how do they do it it it it you have to get used to it probably much better right with it then without it right but anyway like scuba diving you have your gear that's your gear you're wearing it's like you're going through the ear you want to go through it this Sunday yeah is going to be the 10year anniversary of the very first time in my life I ever rode a two- wheel bicycle wow 10 years yeah that you rode a two-wheeler yeah you only started Biking For the First Time 10 years ago yeah I understand it you learned you only learned how to drive a bike you know how like when your kid you get your kid and you take over the training wheel started I did that at 35 years old get out of here I what what did I just miss I thought you started at 16 when you got your license and you real I I I hated driving that's what I'm saying I never like driving you asked me about do I ever want to so since 16 you got your license you hated driving but you continued and then at 35 you decided to take the training wheels off and learn how to ride a bike this is insane 35 I learned how to ride a bike it's like somebody saying you know I play golf professionally now um oh W couple years like what is how do you get so good at something in such a short period of time so thank God my fitness was good I was doing I was always active so in my 20s I played a lot of tennis in my early 30s I did a lot of rollerblading so the fitness I had but I just as a kid I never learned how to ride the bike wow you're making up for lost time aren't you I'm sorry I have to ask I have to ask this question simply because I'm known in my neighborhood as the person that teaches kids how to ride bicycles I have a good method you if I would have met you 11 years ago I'm just curious if you would came to me at 35 and said hey Michael can you help me uh I I don't know what I would have done I don't know if I could have done the same method other kids in the neighborhood I there's a certain method yes where fathers come to me and they say can you help my kid ride his bike what's the method just push he puts him on Route 306 say go push I'm well aware what the method why do these parents need you to do well it's not easy to teach a kid to ride a bike it's it's a process you have to put the proc wheel on hold them as they go to let go and not be afraid it's rocket science like like if you work for NASA then at 35 what did you do to start so the story goes like this it was it was 2014 I'm sorry one second you owe me a book by the way why you cuz you're putting me down to put got a book I'm just saying no I'm not because it's nassa to ride a bike the teacher bik put the parents oh the parents down that are telling you to teach their kid how to write a bik yeah no not they're missing out in their their experience they're standing out there they're out there with me it's a method though Michael that's I'm saying that these parents should know better they should say Michael this how to run teach my kid how to swim what are you talking about they're being lazy these fathers they're being lazy put the job on to you and you should start saying no to them abely you should say do me a favor teach your own kid how to ride a bike no no no I love it are you kidding me it's a method it it takes me two hours and they know how to ride a bike some parents struggle for weeks and they don't know what they're doing because they get too nervous to let go so I teach them to let go but Rabbi so what did you do at 35 so it was shabus still owe me a gift the shabus right after did you give me a gift so you can get a gift back is that what you did no because then you could have this clarify no no absolutely I'm just using your method that's all I'm just go ahead I I'll recommend you the right but by what would that be actually how to make friends and influence people you do good already there podcasting 101 yeah so I want to learn how you how you learn to ride a bike tell me about the process yes you're 35 35 and a good friend of mine comes to me in SHO and says I just got back from bike forai and it is the most unbelievable experience for the most unbelievable cause right and and and just he sayson you have to do this next year you have to do bik for I'm like sold I'll do it okay step one learn to ride a bike so did did he know that you didn't know how to ride a bike I told him oh you told him okay I told him I said I don't know how to okay listen I got a year yeah so the next day was Sunday and I took my 10-year-old old son's bike he was almost 10 and I I did some Google research I the in New York City bike New York has classes teaching adults how to ride a bike no way so I did I found out that the next morning in the Bronx in one of the parks in the Bronx they were having the class so I took my nine-year-old's bike put it in the car and I uh you know it's a tall kid so so you're saying they needed a whole class to teach people how to ride because it's not so easy to ride to teach people by way so the one thing I focus on when I have kids and I'm curious if they did this by you is just the balance forget about pedaling just learn how to balance tell you first so I got there like an hour early because I didn't know what traffic would be like and and at that point I was motivated I was committed so you know what all the people when I was a kid you know all all the all the all the Michaels in the world who were telling me okay you're not going to fall you're not going to full I was too scared to you know so but at this point like I just want to do it already so it was my will right wow so by the time the class started I already basically you know I was already doing laps around the park somewhat the instructor came with pedal wrenches and took the pedals off of everyone's bike that's what you're saying so right so no so don't worry about pedaling just right and we used our feet like Flintstone Style Fred Flintstone you know and uh you know we we coasted you glided and then you got you lift up your feet and you got used to that idea being balancing of right of balancing and how the motion of the bike will just carry you and then they put everyone's pedals back on yeah that's learned wow two and a half two and a half weeks later so I took this class on a Sunday morning two and a half weeks later we had Chev bras in Brooklyn and I told my wife I'll meet you there no that's when it started that at that point at that point I already had bought my S got you know a Walmart type bike and or Target bike you know and um and she drove in I met her there and uh my in-law's was still living there so I had a place to shower and change wow and that's so was two weeks two and a half weeks after so I took to it pretty quickly way and the rest is history you know on Shark Tank on the show somebody invented a bike for kids to teach kids how to uh ride two wheelers and the invention is that they don't have pedals on the bike and it's basically you know using their feet like the Flint a Strider they call they're called Striders I don't remember what the name the concept is called or the company yeah those bikes exist in the world yeah and they're called The Strider bike okay this is going back like 5 years ago I saw this on the show so it could be that you know it's been around now but uh they got a deal from the sharks that was a very big deal as well like a lot of money um but it was that was the concept is first you got to just learn how to basically balance you know on the bike and the rest is easy right so it's pretty fascinating do you have any other secret talents that we don't know about what else do you do on your spare time my spare time what's spare time there's no spare time everything is used so strategically I see I know strategically what other Hobbies do you have what else do you like to do so right now really all my leisure time is because you know I've just become so focused on the cycling that became my that became my my I'll say healthy Obsession and um you know so I have in I have in my bike room in my house I have a scratch off map of the 50 states and uh every state that I ride my bike in I I scratch wow how many states have you done so far I think now I'm up to 13 amazing have a long way to go okay but I you know I'm not it's not it's not a race and uh what does it do from a I'm just curious from a psychological level because I have to tell you that I've learned a lot by going to therapy for years and um one of the Trade Secrets within therapy is this need for your dopamine your your right so I'm curious if you can explain to us from your perspective what it does for you when you're biking and when you're exercising or you're swimming or you're playing pickle ball what what is that need so every day it's a different need and it fills that need you know for me it's about mind body and soul you know so as far as my body is concerned right my cardiovascular system is in really good shape my blood pressure is lower my resting heart rate is low you know I have back and neck arthritis I you know I I I have SP when I'm riding a lot my muscles are stretched out right if I go a few days without riding start getting stiffness so the benefits to my body are physical that's all physical self that's that's body that's body right mind it helps clear out my mind when there's a lot of clutter when there's a lot of stress when there's a lot of you know I can't think straight right sometimes my wife says go bike out the crazy you know like uh you know she says that affection yes yes very smart woman she said that affectionately you know and go for go for a ride just just go I coin the turn bike out the crazy but like she knows that when I'm you know stressed right right I need to sharpen that saw so it it clears the mind right especially if you have a gorgeous day and you know we happen to live in an unbelievable area for cycling you know we have Harryman State Park and we have all the reservoirs in New Jersey and you can go further north and the cats where's the nicest place to go cycling right now that you've experienced the ni the one nicest or maybe even walking you can also walk like you don't have to so Harryman state Park is is would be a slam dunk except that because it's so close very close and we've all ridden it so many all the cyclist have written it so many times we forget how amazing it is but anybody here who's never been who lives who lives in the RO count there's beautiful hiking there so if you like to hike I'm not a hiker the cycling there is is is gorgeous very low traffic the roads are pretty well maintained and the scenery is you know is is unbelievable if you just appreciate nature and scenery and and serenity right there's there's unbelievable Serenity there by the way I I get that with my top down when I go with my Mustang convertible it helps also it doesn't help my body but it definitely helps my mind I go there a lot the views are fantastic it's just you take in the nature and the ear and yeah suddenly I see that I like birds right right so interestingly because he asked me you know what else so I said mind body and soul so there's body and there's mind yeah and then there's Soul yeah okay for me and and this is something that I think we've discussed in other discussions spirituality is intertwined with the idea of connectedness right being one with God in the universe and everything right other people right everything in existence feeling part of that existence on a day where there is the sun is shining and the wind is rustling the trees and the birds are chirping and there's the Crickets and even I hear a snakes slithering in the woods so and I'm I'm I'm I'm biking and I'm exerting myself my heart rate is at threshold right where you know so I'm feeling it I'm respirating I'm breathing I'm I'm I'm feeling strong feeling and all of a sudden I'm one with the world around me right there there's so much life and there's so much goodness my soul feels so uplifted I have a good friend who you know I likes to ride with David hamburger and he he liked to say every great shabus starts with Arab chabas and Harryman right and I I love that uh you know and it's like so true when you're in that Serenity and that peaceful place it puts you in that spiritual mindset that you know it motivates me now to you know to want to connect with people to want to be there for people to want to form a network where I can give of myself to others and receive what they have to give for me so what it does Mind Body Soul that's the best way I can I love it I I do want to ask you a question that I know is going to invite another part three to this so I don't want to get too into it but how do you define Soul how do I Define Soul yeah what is a soul is that what you're asking yeah I'm asking how he defines Soul he says your soul your soul feels it your soul I I know a little bit because I've gone to his uh classes that he he's given so but I'd like to hear the clarity from him the soul well it really gets into how I Define God in the universe right which is the totality of existence so the soul is that part of the totality of existence that is defined as me I I don't have a great clear definition because all our definitions are trying to Define them in in physical terms right right how they're separate and distinct from other things which is really the antithesis of what a soul is so but that's the best I could say the part of the totality of existence that is me that my body interacts with that is it fear to say subconscious it fair to say that the soul is the sub Sub Conscious it's a I have to think about that one it's certainly not the conscious part of you so I'm not sure if it's conscious part of you is all has access to the soul I'm all right to be continued to be continued yeah I said I pref it the question of teach me the entire Torah on one leg please right that's what he just did right he wants a sentence of word want what is a soul you're not getting that here today I just want more I want more that's all I'm saying it was so nice having you Rabbi I have to say that you know um our podcast that we're doing here is about our growth personally and professionally having someone like you here and talking about the reality of our anxieties and seeing us being vulnerable and transparent you know invites the discussion to continue and for us to continue to grow and start off every day a new I love that approach and I you know I look forward to doing morei any parting words questions or thoughts so I want to give one parting word which is somewhat advice to other people that are listening is as a company um we've recognized the importance of I mean most companies know this is the culture of a company is is critical um everybody's rowing the you know the boat the same way very important and what we've recognized is that one of the ways to enhance that culture is to bring in uh periodically once every couple of weeks I think we do it where we bring in a rabbi specific that we picked we chose was rabbis have a very unique art form in what they do they're they're preachers and not just preaching though they have a lot of worldly experiences as well and they combin everything and uh people can really be uplifted by it and people uh become more positive from it so we've recognized that and as a company we bring in rabbis only rabbis specifically to come in and to talk to to the entire company and we found it to be so beneficial the feedback we've been getting is incredible so if anybody listening that has a company and they have employees and they're always looking for new creative ways how to enhance the culture of the country I think that they should reach out to their local Rabbi people who they're close with and bring them into the fold and I think the rabbis like it they appreciate it as well yeah we do that here we rotate and you've been here before so you you're a part of that uh you know growth with us I do want to mention though rabbis that are leaders mentors therapists you know people that have ideas and good ideas to share not just rabbis because to become a rabbi you need to know not to mix meat and milk together and you need to be very you know you know learned about the laws of kosher not just rabbis just want to clarify that of course yes yes say people that we have immediate access to that are in our circles in our communities every day that help grow people get lost like that's all they do they're they're so capable they it's a great tip for any company you know what billions the show billions Rabbi I'm not sure if you heard of the show it's a fantastic show and it's all about you know it's a high driven company and they're all very very smart and hardworking reminds me of prime Source okay the energy and the people and like they have a fulltime therapist in house in housee and it helps them and not only helps them it's part of their organization they have HR they have receivables paybl part of the leadership as well having a RAB decisions based on what she said and oosha you're 100% right for bringing it up and I applaud you and the organization and the people of Prim source that made this happen especially our partner Mark and David that are be uh behind this uh uh initiative and it's a great idea I think people you know people have programs where people learn with one another that's also fantastic this is just another way to help build each other up morale culture 10 minutes 15 minutes and and to give us tools like we had here today real tools that we can use in our everyday life which is amazing yeah speak I want to thank you because I don't care if we have one listener from this I was avidly listening throughout and you enhanced and you improved my life so with especially with you know the tools that we spoke about in the previous hour was amazing it's going to sit with me I processed it a little bit since then but I'm going to digest it and process it even more and just know that you made a difference in my life and ultimately in my child's life and in his child's life so this is very impactful I appreciate it thank you very much for coming on it was really a pleasure it's always great to spend time with you guys and talking about some issues and topics that are really important to me and uh pleasure was mine I love it and I think I coined a phrase from this discussion is let's continue to grow together and we'll end with that together exactly together we are experts together we are stronger together we can grow to Greater height absolutely excellent okay thank you rabbi that's a rep all right