Transcript
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The real challenge is when you leave
there, just living your faith and
seeking God first.
>> Not like my rabbi.
>> You're literally saying the same things.
I'm a rabbi. But tell me,
>> we talked before.
>> When you're in synagogue, when you're
there, like you're you're playing the
part, but what are you doing when you're
leaving the
>> We talked and he told me when I was here
today.
>> You're ganging up on me. I have the
rabbi yelling at me and the pastor.
Michael, everybody's upset with me.
>> None of your business, Sushi. None of
your business, Michael. It's the None of
Your Business podcast hosted by Michael
and Oshi.
>> Welcome back everybody to another I'm
going to go with this one inspirational
episode of the None of Your Business
podcast. I'm your host Michael
Greenfield. Joined with me is Oshi
Schwarz. We are produced by the Prime
Source Family production team and
sponsored of course by Twillery. They're
doing a great job. They're making noise
out there. They have those stores and uh
people keep telling me like what code
can I use? And I tell them just go in
and mention none of your business. just
make sure that you know people hear
about it and uh it is our objective that
people know the uh the name Twillery
because they're doing a great job out
there. So, love Twillery. Big fan of
Twillery. I keep saying it. I've been
shopping at Twillery even before I knew
what kind of company they were and who
founded that company.
>> We know that cuz we could go back. Their
stuff's great. It's really good.
>> We could see your shirts that you wore
before Twillery.
>> We were proud that we could be sponsored
by Twitter. Absolutely. It was really an
honor.
>> I agree with that. And uh we appreciate
all your subscriptions and your comments
and your likes and even your hates. It's
okay. We'll take it all. We just want to
grow. And uh that has been the uh real
driving force behind the podcast
recently. And I'm finding a lot of that
is what I'm hearing from all of our
listeners. It's growth oriented both
personally and professionally. And that
is it. That's the bottom line. I mean
it's uh we want to get people in the
chair that are filling that role and our
objective. And uh today we are certainly
doing that to the very next level with
someone that I just started hearing
about. I mean, welcome to the program,
Dr. Pastor Ben Graham. What an honor it
is to have you with us here.
>> Well, it's my pleasure. I'm glad to be
here and you know, you guys did it
right. You started off with feeding me
and so you know how to get to the heart
of a pastor. That's what I'm going to
say right there.
>> I appreciate you saying that. And you
tried cholant for the first time. did
and it was amazing. I a matter of fact,
I I hope that I can find uh how to get
that in DC so that I can eat it. It was
I I actually really enjoyed it.
>> Amazing. I love that. So, we have this
little segment that we like to do to get
the audience to get to know who you are
real quick called Chat GPT said what
about you? So, before I do that, did you
ever chat GPT yourself?
>> I never have.
>> Okay. Well, strap in.
>> Uh oh.
>> Here it goes. So, um, and I do this to
myself actually just like 10 minutes
before the guest gets here and I'll be
like, "Okay, the Chachi Pit knows how I
want it and I'm like, "Here's my guest.
Just tell me a little bit about him and,
you know, make it interesting and unique
and just say it in a oneline punchy
way." And, uh, so away we go. While most
teens are figuring out Snapchat,
he has given his life to faith at the
age of 14.
Wow. Okay. Um I I definitely want to get
into that. You know, I'm hearing the
word pastor. I myself am a chaplain, so
I understand the world of, you know,
giving back to the communities of fa in
in representing of faith. It took about
3 minutes into the podcast for him to
throw in that he's a chaplain. He's also
already putting himself at your level as
a pastor. He's making the person. We're
going to ignore that. But
>> what I was going to say is that it took
me 40 years to enter the world of
saying, "Oh, let me help on an official
capacity." And really I got a badge out
of it so it helps me when I get pulled
over.
>> By the way, best I was chap. And best
thing ever because uh I had my ID as
well and I put it over the driver's
license. Probably shouldn't be
professing this right now, but uh you
know, you get pulled over, you're like,
"Oh, let me get my license." And they
see the police ID first. Anyhow,
>> it works. Does it really work?
>> Uh well, I plead the fifth.
>> I was going to say, what's the tactic?
Do you actually mention something or you
just take it out?
>> It's on top. They the police department
taught me that to put it on top so when
you pull it
>> out and then get your license they see
it. And the the two times it happened to
me. They said, "Oh, you're a cop." And I
said, "Well, I'm I I was a reserve
officer. I went through the police
academy in South South Carolina." And I
was like, "You know, I am, but I'm more
a chapl." And they're like, "Oh, well,
thought I had somebody. God bless you."
And it worked. So
>> preached in all 50 states and 30 plus
countries. Airlines call him Pastor
Platinum.
>> Wow.
>> Is that right? All 50 states.
>> All 50 states.
>> You've been to every single state and
preached in each state.
>> Yeah. I've I've preached in all 50
states. I've golfed in 39. Uh I'm trying
to get to all 50 and I've hunted in
about 15. So, you know, those are the
things I keep up with. But, uh,
>> best state that you golfed in. Best
course?
>> Hawaii.
>> Hawaii. Alanabam. Mayor Arm. You heard
it here first. Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We have two very await
golf. They're big golfers. So, Hawaii,
that's the best place.
>> That was that's probably by far my
favorite, but I have many many uh places
I've enjoyed.
>> What about best location of hunting?
>> Um well, this is probably going to get
in somewhere to talk about, but it has
to be Northwest Missouri because when I
was in my first year of college, I went
to seminary. I was struggling because I
wanted to play basketball and I had an
opportunity but I was struggling with
that and I'd went to seminary and my dad
said go on this hunting trip with me and
I was like I can't go and he said just
go. A farmer had invited him to go
hunting on their property in northwest
Missouri. So I went I ended up meeting
the farmer's daughter. She's been my
wife for 27 years. So yeah. So that's by
far the best hunting hunting place ever.
>> Good answer. She's going to appreciate
that. That's a great story.
>> I can let her watch this one.
>> By the way, you'll learn about me on the
podcast. I'm a pretty shallow person.
I'm working on myself.
>> No, stop it.
>> But notice notice how you said that you
preached at 50 different states and you
golfed in 39. I asked right away about
your golfing experience. Not where was
the best state that you preached in or
what was the best outcome from this. I
ain't ask about that. But I'm working on
myself, pastor. I'm working on myself.
You've grown a lot over 60 plus.
>> The only reason I'm doing this podcast,
I get to meet people like him.
>> Yeah. I think you guys the worst place I
spoke at and I could tell you a story
there.
>> Let's go. Go right into that. You're
talking my language right now.
>> When I was 18, I was speaking in a
church in Texas, and while I was
speaking, there was this young couple in
the back that was sticking their tongue
out at me the whole time, uh, gesturing
cuss words at me, like whispering, but I
could tell what they were saying. You
can, you know, when somebody's saying
that. And my brothers and I, we sang in
a group. We sang there, then I spoke,
and it was pretty distracting, you know.
Uh, but when I, a year before that, I
spoke at a nursing home. I got asked to
come do this uh maybe a Christmas
service and in the middle of that this
this elderly lady comes streaking
through. So that had prepared me for
that that you can get through anything.
You know what I mean? So u she's living
life that lady. She hasn't stopped
living. Good for her.
>> People always wonder what goes on in
nursing homes, right? You know, she had
no clue where she was at, but she was
she was living life.
You hold a doctorate in temperament
counseling and you can spot a mood swing
before the coffee kicks in.
>> Okay. What is temperament counseling?
>> I love this Chad. GPT. Temperament
counseling. We we um we do a evaluation
to find out what your temperaments are
and then it really helps us evaluate why
you struggle with certain things and
helps us evaluate things like um you
know when my wife went through it and
she also has a degree in this you know
she learned certain things about herself
that you know we had been married for
years but but now we tell people before
they get married to do this uh cuz going
in you understand if and I'll give you
an example my wife was often I'd get
invited to go to somebody's house do a
dinner do something. Well, we'd get
there and there'd be 40, 50 people. And
she was so uncomfortable with that if I
asked her, you know, like, hey, in a
couple hours we're going to go over here
and we would go and she'd be so
uncomfortable cuz she didn't have time
to prepare herself to going into that
kind of a situation. For me, I can go in
anywhere. You know, I don't know
anybody. I'm fine. For her, it was panic
to have to eat in front of people and
and socialize in front of people that
she hadn't had time to really think
about it. That was part of her
temperament. And so when you learn these
things helps you better understand how
to prepare like you know there's certain
things I know that my wife needs time
>> to process and there's certain things
that um you know different temperaments
different you know involve different
things and so when you learn that about
yourself helps you understand a little
more of why you uh react to things
certain ways and and uh in counseling it
was I've been counseling since I was 19
because that's when I went into
full-time ministry.
Um, but I really and I learned a lot of
things growing up as a preachers's kid
and all that. You kind of learn to read
people, but I think that really helped
me even uh further be able to test
people and verify things and then
understand more how to help them and
help them understand why they struggle
with certain things.
>> Love that. Similar to chapency, right?
Isn't that a function of what a chap
what a chaplain does? I only know about
because he only mentioned it like 8,000
times. So, I know all about chaplain.
star of a movie,
Fearless Faith. Basically, the Marvel
crossover of sermons and cinema. What is
going on there?
>> I do love that. I love that. That's not
even the best movie I was a part of, but
I'll take that. Um, it was a great uh
movie that was written by a a former
cop, directed by a former uh uh LAPD
officer. Um, my work in in the police
department, and I think there was two
other people involved in that film. And
it was based on actual events uh from an
officer and I actually play a chaplain
in that movie. Uh I'm a pastor. In the
beginning, my wife gets taken hostage
and u that leads to me becoming a
chaplain and and uh it's a great uh
great story, but um I've been involved
in a plethora of films. My wife and I
have got to star in a couple movies
together as the leads and more Christmas
Hallmark type films. But, uh, it's
something I love to do. I did my first
movie when I was 11 and and, uh, you
know, and just kind of kind of, um, you
know, got in my system and and I
absolutely love doing that.
>> So, which one did you mention was your
more favorite one or that more popular
one?
>> Uh, well, I I just I think my favorite
was the one that my wife and I did
recently called Christmas at Keystone.
The reason I love that so much is one,
her and I are the leads in it. You know,
it's Hallmark at the end, we kiss, you
know, kind of thing. It was funny when
we did the scene uh and I hate to give
it away but I already said it's Hallmark
so everybody knows how that goes but uh
I uh at the end I kiss and then the
director I'll never forget he goes you
know cut and he goes hey Ben come here
let me show you something takes me back
shows me my monor they replay it and he
goes what do you think I was like that
looks good he goes what are you trying
to gross this out he's like that's way
too much like sorry I got excited you
know and but um I also wrote a song um
called the big man's coming to town and
they put that in the film and there was
just a lot I got to do in that film that
made that kind of extra special for me
uh in that. But uh yeah, no, it's it's
fun and there's some uh I'm signed to do
a couple really uh uh big films coming
up for me. They're huge opportunities
with some A-list actors and you know uh
I hopefully we'll get to do those. We're
trying to work it out to film one at the
end of next year with uh somebody I
can't say but super famous and I'm
playing his brother uh co-starring in
it. So, with my work I'm doing at the
White House, you know, all that, we're
hoping it works out, but they've already
given me the blessing to to be able to
to do that. So, um, I'm loving it. Yeah.
>> Wow. I'm loving it for you. By the way,
I'm living through you right now. I'm
just imagining myself being able to be
in a movie. That's like a dream come
true for so many people. You're speaking
about it so nonchalantly like, "Yeah."
>> You know what I'm thinking about that's
that's blowing me away is how he got
excited to kiss his wife.
>> Yeah.
>> After four kids. And you know, she's
pretty hot. So,
>> no, it's funny, too. When I I got to be
careful how I say this, but Corbin uh
Bernson, who is a famous actor, he was
in like major league. He was in the show
Psych and he's been in hundreds of
movies. He um he was in the film and and
when he showed up on set, he told the uh
AD, the assistant director, he said,
"When I see Ben the way he looks at his
wife," he goes, "I see love in his
eyes." But um you know we've been
married a while but you know still uh um
what do you think that secret is?
Because ultimately you know Yeah. And
all kidding aside you know marriage four
kids later living life and working and
just speaking like that this is what's
catching my attention.
>> I think you know when you first get
married um you think love is probably
the idea of marriage. Um you know you a
lot of folks get to there's hurdles year
four year nine I think year nine was a
tough year for us I became a senior
pastor of a large ministry and there was
just a lot of things going through but
all these were building and you know
what happens in life in anything you
either get bitter or you get better and
you know for us we were able to get I
think better and then you know she's
with four C-sections we lost a boy we
have four boys but between our second
and third son she was seven months
pregnant we lost a
She's had um nine surgeries, you know,
four were C-sections, but nine surgeries
since we've been married. I've been
through cancer three times. I think
going through those uh there's a bond
that that comes, you know, and she had
grandparents that were married um I want
to say I think 68 or 69 years. um you
know and so the great example and um you
know in our family we were kind of
taught you know um you know divorce just
isn't an option. So you know if that's
true you got one of two options. You
either you know you either uh work at
loving each other or you're miserable
you know and you know there's been
difficult days and we've been through
our ups and downs like anybody and every
great marriage takes work. Um, I do
think not everybody can be in a movie
together, but I do think doing stuff
that's a little outside of the norm
helps keep a a passion there. Yeah. And
so, yeah, I I think it's
>> interesting.
>> Find something like that. It might just
be, you know, uh, taking up a a new uh,
>> sport, bowling. I don't know. I saw a
bowling trophy earlier. I think that's
what that was. You know, I I have no
idea.
>> A little bit about us. Any trophy he can
pick up, it'll be this.
>> I just got a trophy a couple of nights
ago. I won the softball tournament in my
league. In my league. Yes, Prime Source.
We sponsored a bowling team. We won
three years in a row. So, that was a
trophy you're seeing there. Very proud
of it. Uh, big shout out to myself. Yes.
But, you know, on this topic, I I
actually had a question. I had one or
two questions prepared, and it's right
on this topic, actually. So, I think
it's a perfect segue. Is it okay if I
ask the question now, Michael? She
>> I know you're right in the middle of
your introduction.
>> No, this is the idea. This is perfect. I
love this.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I'm actually very very
excited to learn a lot about uh the
Christian religion. Um, and you know, I
think Jews and Christians, we have a lot
in common. Obviously, you a lot of
shared history together.
>> Um, and I don't think the casual Jewish
person knows too much, you know,
intricate details about the Christian
religion and vice versa. We know the
basics. You know, we have a basic
understanding. So, I want to get a
little educated. I would really love to
learn about it. I understand that
there's uh three different main segments
in Christianity, right? There's the uh
Protestants, Catholics, and I believe
Eastern Orthodox, right? Those are the
three main ones. Um there's a difference
between a priest and a pastor. Okay. And
I think a priest is for all those
different factions, right? And then you
can have a pastor and I think
>> Protestants I don't know if I'm saying
that right.
>> Yeah. You you are there's such a variety
in Protestant. Not all Protestant have
priests, but there are some that do.
>> Okay. So it's my understanding that a
priest is supposed to be celibate. A
priest is not supposed to get married,
which is one of the differences from
Jews to Christians. Jews, let's say the
rabbis, which I believe correlates to
what a what a priest is, um, does get
married. And I think in both religions,
we believe that matrimony, the unity of
a man and a woman is a holy thing. It's
a pure thing. And, uh, it's something
that's encouraged and it's it's almost
the fundamental of of our lives to get
married, to bear children, and to raise
children, right, under, you know, uh,
under God and to serve God. I always
wondered this. I never really had an
answer for this, but I always wondered
now that you're here, I'd love to, you
know, get educated on this. If that is
the case, then you'd think a priest
who's at a even a higher level than, you
know, the the average person getting
married, setting that example would be
something that even they would do. Why
is it that in the religion priests do
not get married?
>> So, this is where um I'll give you a
little history. This is where Catholics
uh would disagree with us. Um but let's
start back you know uh you know God
created Adam and Eve said be fruit be
fruitful and multiply and then when God
created the priesthood um you know we we
read even they had sons you know they
were married and you you go through all
the old testament all the religious u uh
rulers leaders you know they they were
married they had children going in then
you start seeing uh in uh in the early
church. Um, you see the the leaders
there. Most of them were married. Um,
the only one that we're unsure of was
Paul. Uh, but Paul at one time uh was a
Sanhedrin. So therefore, he must have
been married because that was a
requirement. We don't know if when he
started following Christ if maybe his
wife left him, which you know very much
could have happened. We don't we don't
know. Scripture doesn't say. But we see
they were all married. Uh this is where
us and the Catholic Church disagrees. Uh
several hundred years in in the 300s is
when the Catholic Church was created.
Years later, the Catholic Church, they
get together and they make decisions on
what they believe should be practiced.
Somewhere along the way, they said, you
know, the Catholic Church is is you
know, priests are not going to get
married. Uh but in scripture it says
that the bishop and that's actually what
they call pastor a bishop. The
requirement is he's to be the husband of
one wife. So scripture tells us we are
to be married. Now does that mean that a
somebody could be a pastor and and and
um not be married? I I don't think it's
so dogmatic that it's saying you have to
be. But I think it's there is a
precedent that you know God is okay with
you being married because the pastor is
really an example of of what the faith
should be. And how do you live that out?
How are you an example if you don't have
a wife? How do you live that if you
don't have a family? And we believe
Jesus uh you know came for the bride of
Christ. And the Bible teaches the church
is the bride of Christ. And the Bible
teaches we're to love our wives as he
loved the church and gave himself for
And so there's this just this clear
teaching of example of how a husband
should love his wife. And that I think
goes with that. And so that's where we
would disagree with the Catholic Church.
Um you know um uh Lewis Schwarz who you
know he he's my my new hero. Um I love
him and I better get that check after I
say all this. No, I'm just kidding. I
No, I'm joking. I love him. He's such a
blessing. But we had these conversations
today cuz you know they call a a priest
father. And there's a scripture in the
New Testament says call no man father
but your heavenly father. And it's not
saying I can't call my dad father. But
there's a spiritual in if you look at it
in the Hebrew there's a spiritual
meaning of you know that reverence of
father is only to the heavenly father.
You know no man gets that reverence. And
in essence a lot of people feel that the
priest is trying to take some of that
reverence. And you know we honor a rabbi
we honor a a pastor. You know, we they
call them reverend because there's a
reverence, but at the end of the day,
they're still people.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh who are flawed and we know we know
rabbis who have messed up. We know
pastors who have messed up, who've
fallen into sin. And that's why
ultimately our eyes must stay fixed on
God. Um he is our ultimate, you know,
because, you know, people can let us
down. And so I think that's where we
disagree a little bit. Um, but
Christianity certainly, um, you know, I
know when I first started going to
Israel, my family's been going since
probably maybe late 60s, early 70s. Um,
I'm not for sure when my grandfather
started going, but you know, um, there
was this real hesitancy because certain
Christianity persecuted uh, the Jewish
people, but it wasn't the Christianity
that we come from. And there was some,
you know, and, you know, we really
wanted to let the people know. And I
remember when I first started going to
Israel and sometimes having those
conversations and people were still a
little hesitant, but I mean there's a
there's now it's growing. People are
understanding that the the Christian
faith that we come from very much stands
with Israel. Um our our our buddy
Charlie Kirk was a big fan of Israel,
you know. Um and there are some
Christians who, you know, really debate
this, but um we very much stand with the
nation of Israel. We believe it's God's
chosen people. God says, "I'll bless
those that bless Israel." and uh you
know and that's one thing we stand for
and then we as Americans believe that
God says I'll I'll bless the nation that
that blesses God and put God first and
so you know that's what we strive for
and uh and that's where we can come
together whether it's Catholic you know
uh Vice President Vance talked about him
and Charlie having some uh debates
because you know Charlie was Protestant
and and and Vance is Catholic um but we
can get together and we can we can
disagree on some things and yet still
one be civil but then two we can we can
talk about this and and try to
understand why
>> and I think that's so important and you
know this was uh this is what if you
look in all uh society this is always
why people have been martyed because
there there was leaders that were
threatened by the thought of having
conversation you know if we talk to them
and people start believing you know
we're going to lose what we have and So,
you know, most of the time it was, well,
we just got to get rid of them. And uh
but but you'll find that that's, you
know, uh a detriment to our society.
>> For sure. You know, you mentioned Lewis
Schwarz. Um I'm not surprised that you
had a very deep intellectual
conversation already with him. He's
probably one of the more cultural people
that I know and has a vast knowledge in
a wide range of things. You'll be
surprised what else, you know, he he
knows. I always like engaging with him
in these types of conversations. So, you
mentioned him. had to had to say that.
And you also mentioned Charlie Kirk um
who recently was tragic this event felt
by millions of people around the world
not just in this country. The kind of
impact Michael that he had was just and
young people especially but on anybody.
I just want to say my own sentiments if
I may just for a moment about Charlie is
a lot of people looked at him as someone
who was able to uh take an argument or
take a disagreement and unpack it and
break it down in a way that was so
articulate that so logical and and he
made a lot of sense and as if his
function was to speak to the other side
people that disagree with him and to try
to get them to see the ways that perhaps
they can find common ground like that
was how a lot of people viewed him. I
viewed it and I think other people maybe
share my sentiment is not even for the
other side. It was for even people on
the right, for the conservatives even,
where sometimes we struggle, we struggle
as well with a lot of the things going
on in the world and we struggle with a
lot of the different ideas and it was
reinforcement for us. And I think that
that is the biggest thing that we're all
losing out on is on, you know, we're
looking at who's going to be that voice
of reason in the future. You know, who's
going to take that because he filled
that role immaculately. uh he filled it
in in such a regal way. He filled it and
such a young age too. The amounts that
he accomplished in such a short period
of time. What I'm wondering is oh my god
what more could he have accomplished in
the next 30 years. He did this all in
about 10 11 years he did this from the
age of 19 till when he came onto the
scene and died at such a young age of
31. Give this man another 30. could have
taken over the world and and it's not
even so much about you know there's so
many people out there that are you know
that need to you know hear logic and
reason it's for us for the people that
are under that are also for everybody
could have benefited from this and to me
that is the biggest you know lost the
kind of indelible mark that he left on
this world and the accomplishments I
mean anybody that knew him that even was
in his stratosphere that was in his
orbit was lucky to even have a little
piece of that in the short period of
time that that he was on this world So
he'll be greatly greatly missed but not
forgotten. Yeah.
>> And his word will will will carry on and
and he sent a message powerful enough
that it will live on forever.
>> Amen.
>> He he was brilliant and could articulate
well and um you know I think
>> uh we were actually going to be together
here in a few days and uh I was looking
forward to that. I've um been with them.
I've I've spoke at some of the turning
point events and um you know greatly
missed and um I know our the
administration u I don't even know if we
talked about this but I I I work on the
faith team at the administration and and
uh you know President Trump thought
highly of him. Matter of fact, I think
he was very instrumental in helping
President Trump get elected.
>> Sure.
>> Especially with the the the younger
votes and uh you know and and he'll be
greatly missed. And I think it's, you
know, it's one of those where, you know,
what I pray comes out of this is that
many will arise, you know, and um maybe
not just one voice, but many voices will
arise and be emboldened. And uh so I'm
thankful for that. And
>> and uh you know, uh because of that,
it's it's brought a lot of
>> uh prayer and contemplation uh in in my
life uh and in others and I'm very
thankful for that. You know, it's funny,
you know, in life, uh, you talked about
awards earlier. I was, uh, uh, and this
isn't even public knowledge, but about a
week ago, I was in the hospital, ended
up I had to go to the ER and I was there
for a couple days and, um, I was
supposed to be given an award and then I
got asked to be in Canton, Ohio on
Monday to get an award from the NFL
alumni for my work on uh, fighting human
trafficking. And uh it didn't look like
I was going to be there and I was kind
of bummed and I'm I'm just sitting there
and you know I'm seeing all these people
that are thriving and I'm sitting here
in the hospital and kind of mad and this
well-known sports figure comes on and he
goes
>> everybody wants awards. He goes man
gives awards, God gives the rewards. He
said, "Let's go after the rewards."
>> Now I am going Monday. I actually do get
to get this uh I'm excited Mike
Singleary who played for the Bears. My
favorite team is the one giving me the
award on that.
>> Nice. But the reality is is, you know, I
think often times we live this life for
the temporary. And with Charlie, I think
he captured and caught something that a
lot of people struggle with, but he
lived for the eternal.
>> Yes.
>> You know, and and and when you live that
way, it gives you a boldness. He wasn't
ugly about it. He wasn't unkind about
it, but he never backed down. And that's
why he could go have an interview with
Gavin Newsome, who most people, if they
said, "Hey, you want to interview I'm
not talking to Gavin Newsome. That's
most people's attitude.
>> I watched the whole thing.
>> But he did. He went on there. While he
was friendly, while they had a great
debate, he never changed who he was. You
know, Charlie didn't.
>> But and that's what I loved about him.
And I think
>> if we could all get to a place where we
we know who we are and and and we're
truly grounded in our faith. We know who
we are in God, you know, we can conquer
a lot. And it gives us a boldness. And
you know, I think um you know, this this
assassin's bullet, I I I think he
thought he was going to stop this
movement, but I think it's it's going to
do the exact opposite.
>> He added fuel to the fire.
>> Absolutely.
>> He inflamed this movement. It's going to
be bigger than ever.
>> He thought he's going to silence him
with a bullet. He actually just
magnified this in one of the one of the
biggest ways. It's a shame that it had
to come at this cost and at a sacrifice
of this young man who made such an
impression. But the movement will will
will live on. There's no question about
it. Pastor, is that what I can I call
you that guy? Yeah. Um
>> you call me Ben. I'm okay with that.
>> Okay.
>> Actually, Benjamin David.
>> Benjamin David.
>> Jewish name, right?
>> I like pastor. I think, you know, that's
a that's a befitting title. You know, I
think you've earned it. You know, he's
spoken all 50 states. Um do you find the
youth today is being drawn more towards
the religious aspects as far as
traditions, family values, things like
that? Or do you find that you know the
it's a struggle and and we we have an
uphill battle that you know we're we're
not necessarily winning right now and
it's going in the other direction. Uh
from from your perspective, from what
you're seeing out there in the world,
where where is that trending? So about
10 years ago, people started realizing I
got to get my kids out of especially
four or five years ago during COVID. I
got to get my kids out of public
education.
That was a good move because our kids
are being indoctrinated in most public
education. There's just no doubt about
it. Not all public schools are bad. Not
all public teachers are bad, but there
is an indoctrination going on. Started
bringing them out. Universities, same
thing that we've been dealing with this
forever. there is a a liberal woke
mindset that's there. Well, what's
happening now is we're seeing uh a
movement especially amongst young men
that they are turning back to religion.
They're turning back to um a more uh
traditional religion. But but not like
50 years ago, 40 years ago, people went
to church and maybe they heard the
pastor speak and they just took that as
truth. Now they're like, "Show me. I
need to see it. Let me see from
scripture. Let me see. People want to
know, is this really true? You know,
with Chad GPT, with Google, they can
type it up and look and see, you know,
tons of things on it. But there is a
growing and the reason is is because for
so long, young men have I mean,
Hollywood's been doing it, Disney's been
doing it. They've been um they've been
taking away this understanding of of
what a a man should be. And these young
men are looking for something that's
real. They're looking for something
that's legit. And thankfully they're
finding it in religion. They're finding
it in faith. And so there is it is
growing. But there's still a lot of
people who are still into the woke
ideology. They're they're still the
universities. And you know, even with
this Charlie thing, there's been quite a
few professors and different ones that
were fired because they were praising
the fact that he was martyed. And and
I'm glad that some universities are
stepping up and saying there, you know,
no place for that here. whether you
agree or don't agree, you know, you
can't celebrate the death of somebody
being assassinated.
>> So, you know, I I I think we're seeing a
little shift. We need a lot more of it,
>> but we're seeing a little shift. And I'm
seeing a lot more young people who are
looking at conservative moral values and
saying, "I want more of that." And
that's very encouraging.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I must continue this because
there's a couple of points here that
like, you know, I'm reading here and I'm
like, "Oh, wow. This must be
>> I actually want to know what it says cuz
I'm laughing at some."
>> No, but you know, also, you know, you're
asking great questions, Oshi. And uh
you're answering
>> Oh, I got lots more. I got lots more.
>> You're answering great, but you know, I
think what the world needs to hear is
the credibility of where the answers are
coming from. And that's what I'm about
to get to, which is the meat and
potatoes of uh the chat. pun intended
for the challen by the way. Uh, newly
crowned faith director for the Trump
administration, America's official
hotline to heaven now has a direct
extension. Hotline to heaven.
>> Hotline to heaven.
>> I mean, to me, this is like you you were
speaking about Lewis Schwarz. By the
way, Rabbi Lewis Schwarz to us is known
as just simply laser. He's just our
laser guy.
>> Can I just say, too, if you want if you
want to grow in your faith, let laser
drive you.
Well, anyhow, sorry.
>> By the way, we need to end this podcast
right now.
>> That's a great
>> That is how we dropped the mic. He only
went one time with him for three minutes
and he already know.
>> I said a Christian prayer, a Jewish
prayer, a Catholic prayer. I did them
all
>> there. Every insurance company has a
bulletin board with a big face on it and
they throw darts at it all the time. His
face is on there.
>> So, I want to mention a big thank you
and a shout out to our friend Laser who
literally brought you here. He didn't
just recommend you here, he physically
brought you here.
>> He's the best.
>> And uh so we really really appreciate
that. And I know that on the way here
you stopped by Yeshiva of Spring Valley
and you know I want to hear about that
experience really quickly. But before I
get into that, what happened here?
What's going on? I mean
>> Trump administration what is Yeah. What
tell us about that?
>> So um in the last goound we had some
faith directors uh but not in official
capacity. Um this time he decided to put
the faith office in the west wing and
then put faith directors in every
department and it's been amazing. Um
we've got an amazing u uh Jewish uh
director uh Martin who's just doing a
phenomenal job. Uh and the goal was
under the Biden administration and under
even Obama administration a lot of uh
religious organizations were being
targeted by the IRS. they were being
targeted by the administration. He
wanted to make sure that every
department had somebody in there working
directly with the secretaries making
sure that religious organizations were
not being discriminated and that's for
all faiths and we actually have a a a
commission who is outlining every
religious discrimination done by the
previous administration. I mean it's
massive. It's massive. Workers, federal
workers to um you know um you know many
u Jewish incidents that are public, some
that aren't. I mean it's unbelievable.
So he was very bold in that. I've known
the Trumps for a while. I was a liazison
in the last goound. I didn't take a
position because I didn't want to I was
pastoring and everything else and doing
the film company and um but I was there
almost every week for two and a half
years. Stayed busy. this go around. I
was working with Eric Trump and just
talk to him about some faith stuff and
we were trying to work on some things
and uh I I said I look I don't want to
be there. I just I want to help. I have
a my son and daughter-in-law
granddaughter live 15 20 minutes from
us. You know I didn't want to be in DC
and now we have two granddaughters but
you know I was like I didn't want to be
in DC but then election night they
invited us there. We went my wife uh
said look I know you said you don't want
to go there but if you feel God's
leading you I'm okay with it. And I was
like, "You were my excuse not to go, you
know." And uh I said, "Okay." So I said,
"Yes." They sent me the plumb book.
That's the 4,000 jobs a president has to
fill. Actually, they sent me the old
one. They said, "We have the new one in
two weeks." So I get the plumb book.
They're like, the president said, "What
do you want to do?"
>> Plum book.
>> That's what they call it. And he said,
"What do you want to do?" And so I'm
looking through there. I see CIA. I'm
like, "Bading gun. That sounds fun, you
know." So I talked to him. I'm like,
"Now look, if it comes to secrets and
torture, you don't want me to know
anything cuz if they torture me, I'll
give up everything." You know, and uh
but I said, you know, I really want to
do something in faith. If we're going to
fix our nation, we've got to return to
God. That's what's going to bring
greatness. So, we went through a lot of
things. They talked about the religious
liberty commission, which we just did
Monday. I was there. Uh uh Lewis was
there with us. You know, I I I'm praying
about it. I'm like, you know, uh just
want to do that. And they a couple times
Sergio, who is over the transition team,
said, "What about this?" and he had
another guy who was helping me and they
said, "What about this?" And I said,
"Look, I'm not doing this for a career.
I don't plan on being in DC after this
administration. I just want to try to
fix our nation. I want to do faith." And
so they finally said, "You know what
about this position?" And brought me on
and I'm actually involved in about three
different things. But um you know, one
of the things they knew is I love I love
speaking. I love traveling. I love doing
media. And so they put me in this
position to be able to do this. And uh
it's been amazing. So, you know, going
to the school today, um going by there
and and on behalf of the president,
letting them know that this president
stands with the Jewish people. Um we are
um proud of of of this school and the
fact that they're raising up um um sharp
uh young people who are a benefit to
society, uh people with a great
education. Um and just be able to share
that with them. And it was it was
beautiful to be there. and and uh you
know from going and seeing kids who are
uh in the main classrooms to kids who
are in uh special learning classrooms
that get more of a one-on-one uh to
being in the gymnasium and getting to
shoot a and make a three-pointer. You
know, I'll take that. All of it was it
was fun. And you know, I'm just um I am
grateful that we have a president that
understands that our America was found
upon Christian Judeo values. And you
know, we have to return to those roots.
And most people don't know this, but
there was a pastor in revolutionary
wartime
uh who got up and he preached out of
Ecclesiastes. He says, "There's time to
live, time to die." He goes, "There's
time for war." He said, "Time has come."
took off his black robe, grabbed his
musket, walked out, and his men followed
him, and they started fighting in the
Revolutionary War. His brother, who was
a clergyman, wrote him a letter, uh his
name, this guy's name was Frederick
Muildenberg, and he wrote him a letter,
and he said, "How dare you being a man
of the cloth engage in this war?" Well,
6 months later, his house was burnt
down, his church was burnt down, his
family almost got killed, and he
realized being neutral didn't work. you
you either have to be involved or or or
you know, you're involved in one side or
the other. It's it's kind of like
scripture says no man can serve two
masters. You're either going to serve
God or you're going to serve the the
devil. So, this guy gets involved and he
would become the first speaker of the
house. So, the first speaker of the
house was a pastor. It was a clergyman.
And uh I wrote a book last year called
Ignorance and Apathy. Two of America's
deadliest sins. Uh one of my close
friends from New York. He was a
professor. uh help me and we we put this
book together because you know there's a
time where people need to wake up. Most
people are either they're ignorant to
what's going on or they're apathetic.
And the Bible says that God's people uh
they they perish for lack of knowledge.
And uh Old Testament scripture teaches
that this and it's important that we
understand
that um you know just because we're
ignorant uh isn't a proper excuse. you
know, especially today, we we we can get
any information we want, but most people
just they're apathetic and they just
don't care. And so trying to wake up
people and our president understands
that. So that's been his mission, his
goal, and I'm proud to be a part of it.
>> Well, I must mention a big thank you to
President Trump and the Trump
administration on behalf of all the
Jewish people and all the listeners and
all the faiths for appointing someone so
proper in this position and having this
position and some someone to represent
the faith. It's amazing and it's just a
great pick, you know.
>> Well, I appreciate it and and we're
blessed. We have uh multiple people, you
know, we have uh uh multiple people in
the White House leading the faith in
every department. I mean, it's just it's
incredible. And what what else is really
neat is is that it the president has
emboldened all of the secretaries,
everybody.
There is nobody walking around any of
the departments that are a afraid or
ashamed to talk about faith. doesn't
matter if they're Jewish, doesn't matter
if they're Christian, does whatever they
are. They're they're willing to talk
about it. Uh Orthodox, all I mean,
they're it's just different attitude.
Even the president recently come out and
and did an executive order saying you're
allowed to talk about your faith and you
can convince people why yours is the
right one. You know, but what he was
saying was quit walking on eggshells.
Faith is I mean, I I know this is for
you guys. Your religion is very
important to you. It's very important to
me. Why do I have to put it on the shelf
when I go to work? why I have to put it
on the shelf when I'm involved in
something uh like government that
literally the that changes life for
everybody. We ought to be able to bring
that in there with those ideas. And so
I'm grateful we can do that.
>> Yeah. There's so much synergy not just
between Christians and Jews, but so many
other religions as well that it's a
universal thing. Life just seems better.
It's it's more of a quality of life when
you have those religious fundamentals.
And I'm not talking about people that
are devout and very pious and and we all
have work to do and and we're all trying
to be better today than we were
yesterday. But to be totally, like you
said, ignorant and apathetic and just
like it's by design. It's it's really
inexcusable. And it's not like that
translates into, you know, uh I'm going
to have a better outcome and I'm going
to be happier for it. It the data shows
that in the end you're not. And we all
know the line, there's no such thing as
an atheist in a foxhole. We we all know
that. Why why is that? Because when
things are going wrong, you only have
really one place to to look up that, you
know, you need the help, right? So, it's
a it's a shame that sometimes has to get
to that point to open your eyes and to
realize, you know what, there's got to
be more to life than just, you know, all
the materialistic things and everything
else that we're we're chasing after. And
we realize that that's not going to make
us fulfilled. We're still going to feel
empty. you know and to I think that is
where there's a lot of more awareness
coming where I am seeing in different
religions people are combining the the
their country with the religion and
bringing those two things together I
think there's so much to both of those
that makes you better for it and I think
Trump is doing a phenomenal job in that
the fact that he has you in this
position and that he just elaborated on
this department um and he's putting a
lot of stock in it and he's investing in
this shows that he knows what he's I
mean, he doesn't need my confirmation. I
mean, we we all see it. And he's been a
staunch supporter of Israel. He really
has been the best by far from any
president in the history. I mean, ask
Trump, he'll tell you the best by far,
more than any president in the history.
But he's right. At the end of the day,
actions is what matters. And you can't
deny that. And if you look at what he's
done, not just what he said, but what
he's done. He's proven that over and
over and over again.
>> Well, I think because you look at past
politicians, they said a lot, but they
didn't do much.
>> They didn't do much. Exactly. And he
really
delivered. I you know I'm in Israel a
lot and um there is a great appreciation
uh and I mean let's just be honest
majority of of of Jews
uh especially a lot of folks in Israel
tend to lean more towards Democrat side.
Trump came in and delivered and it's
changed their perspective. And I would
say honestly uh probably you know
unfortunately I don't know why we Lewis
and I talked about this a little bit
today but historically u people u
especially in Israel a lot of people I
know would lean more towards the
Democrat side
>> even here even in the states
>> however and here however I would say
they've had more support from the
Republican side.
>> Sure. I mean
>> and certainly now
>> the left side has gotten a little bit
more extreme over the years. Yes.
>> Right. They used the the moderate
Democratic party was a a a force to be
reckoned with, you know, and even on the
right side, you know, I don't like
extremists on either side, but it's
become way too extreme on the left side.
And you just can't be a part of that
anymore. The the ideology that's coming
out of that side, the extremists, is
just it's it's out of control, man. It's
so out of control, it's crazy that you
just you can't support it anymore. And
there's no remnants left of it anymore.
And especially what's going on in New
York City now with with Mam Donnie.
We're leveling up now again. It's just
getting a little bit more. It's like you
think yesterday was crazy. Let me show
you what's going to happen tomorrow.
It's a scary
>> we get one victory and then we we have
something else to face and it's like
right now you know Chicago these other
they like DC could really get turned
around and most of the people want that.
So I hope the people will you know um
through their voting will change things.
I I mean I you know I have no proof of
this as my own opinion but but who knows
if they're getting an honest election
there anyway you know uh but I think
we're going to continue to see in places
like that more and more people rise up
and say we we got to do something.
>> Yeah
>> because they're not for the violence
that's going on. By the way, he's put
that paper up twice. I hope we haven't
made them mad.
>> Not at all. I was just going to say
>> if you know Michael doesn't get mad. By
the way, it's one of my problems. I try
to get a rise out of him sometimes and
it just he's the most patient person
that I know. It's super annoying. Um,
you know, I'm full of emotions. Like I
get really mad and I get, you know, a
lot of highs, a lot of lows. He's just
even killed and even temperament the
whole time. Little secret, I worked on
myself. But, you know, I
>> That was a zinger, by the way.
>> I'll take it. I deserve it.
>> There is a couple, you know, first of
all, I just want to say we're so proud
and happy to have you on our side on
this mission of our life that we're
going to be uh heading towards. And I
didn't even finish with what I what I
have to say about you which is like I'm
dying to get to it because there's like
a couple more things like what you're an
author, an actor like you know faith
director. It's just amazing and I want
to get to it but we're talking about
things and I'm just thinking to myself
you mentioned that you know you ser
you're going to serve this
administration and you know you hope to
do a lot. What what do you hope to be
remembered by?
Well, I mean the most important thing
is, you know, uh, you know, good
husband, good father, good grandfather.
I think, you know, um, years ago, I was,
uh, I did this sermon out of Psalms, uh,
78. Um, you know, the the nation of
Israel, um, was good at forgetting, you
know, at times. And and the the Bible
says in um it says, I believe it's in
Judges 2, but it says, you know, there
arose another generation that knew not
God or the works that he had done. They
had failed to teach the next generation
the truths of God, the deliverance and
all that. And you know, Israel had their
it's like a roller coaster up and down.
You know, one king followed God and
observed God. And the next king, you
know, he sort of followed God, but you
know, allowed other pagan worship to
come in. And then this one was fully
pagan. And you know, it was just this up
and down. And I preached this message on
the generation to come and talk about
this. And my my great-grandfather,
he was known, he lived during the days
of depression. He was known as a guy who
taught his family the importance of hard
work, not just physically, but working
hard for God, doing great things for
God. My grandfather was known as a man
who really taught the importance of
prayer. Taught people how to pray and
why to pray and and that's what he's
known for. My dad really uh still does
preaches all over the country, but
really did a lot on the family. And I'm
the oldest of eight children and you
know, he just he he um really did a lot
teaching about that and the importance
of of putting God first in your family.
And I always said if I was known for
anything, I just want to be known as the
guy that did all he could to help reach
the next generation. And I think in my
position, I'm really trying to secure
for the next generation a freedom that I
knew when I was younger that we started
seeing taken away over the last, you
know, really 25 years, especially the
last 5 10 years. I I want them to be
able to experience that. I want them to
know just how great this nation is. I've
I've traveled now to probably closer to
45 50 countries and um you know I I went
to Russia in '92 right after uh the Iron
Curtain fell. My dad had already been
there once a year. I went back with them
and I remember going into the schools
and and kids just walking up and
touching me and I was 12 almost 13 at
the time and they would touch me just
like because I was from America.
>> Yeah.
>> And I remember we gave out Bibles and we
would give them out at midnight from
ouros uh from our hotel. One day we were
giving out Bibles. We gave a Bible to a
lady that was 93 years of age. And she
said, "I saw a Bible for the first time
when I was seven." And she said, "I had
been praying every day since I was seven
that I could have my own Bible because
in Russia you couldn't you couldn't have
your own Bible. It wasn't allowed. The
communists wouldn't allow it. They
determine what you believe religion."
And she this she was telling us through
interpreter and she grabbed that Bible
and she kissed it and in broken English
she said these words. She said, "God
bless America."
>> Wow. And I remember as a kid the impact
that made like like we're so blessed to
live in this country.
>> We don't appreciate it.
>> And the Bible says to whom much is
given, much is required. We have a
responsibility. Now I like President
Trump, I believe we ought to be um I
believe we ought to be careful with what
we spend our money on. I I think we
ought to be fiscally conservative, all
those things. But but we are blessed as
a nation to be able to help guide other
nations. And we have done that for
years. Unfortunately, we started getting
to the point where it was more like a I
scratch your back, you scratch mine.
Next thing you know, America's paying
for everything. I don't think we should
do that. But I do think that we are that
voice of reason when a country is um
slaughtering people that, you know, they
don't like, maybe a minority group or
whatever. We're that we're that country
that goes, "Hey, no, no, no, you don't
do that." That's why we have a new
ambassador going in. He's an ambassador
at large. Uh his name is Mark Walker.
He's working through getting his
confirmation. Good friend. He was a
former senator uh or Cong congressman.
He is working on religious liberty
around the world. That's what he does
because there are minority religious
groups all over. They're being literally
persecuted out. And I don't mean like
they're making them leave the country. I
mean they're they're killing them. It's
happening right now
in in in uh the Middle East. It's
happening right now. And so, you know, I
just want to be a person that got
involved in that fight. Um, at the end
of the day, honestly, I I don't care if
anybody knows my name. Uh, I I want them
to know the person that's changed my
life, and that's that's my Lord and
Savior, and that's the most important
thing. U, my faith is is real. And, you
know, in 2019, I had a heart attack. Um,
and I sat on the corner of my bed at
11:00 at night, and I thought I was I
thought I was dying. I mean, I literally
did. I had to wake up my wife and and uh
she called 911 and she's on the phone
and I remember staring at the corner. I
mean, I'm sitting on the edge of the bed
looking at the corner of my room and I'm
like, "God, I thought I was going to be
here longer and I had a lot of plans." I
said, "But just take care of my wife and
kids." And I remember thinking the I'm
just glad I have no regrets. I have no
regrets. There's nobody that I'm mad at.
There's nobody that I owe an apology to.
I I've I've done the best I can with my
life. Not I'm perfect. I'm sure I've
hurt people along the way. I didn't mean
to, but I I just in that moment I was
like, I'm glad I have no regrets. Then
my wife was on hold for just a second
and I told her, I said, tell the kids I
love them. I love you. If I don't make
it, I love you. And I thought that was
it. Well,
>> you know, they get me on the ambulance.
They they keep me alive.
7:30 the next morning, they said I
didn't have a heart attack. They sent me
home. I went home to church, preached a
couple services. Two days later, we went
on vacation to New England. And uh I
ended up going to see a doctor. found
out not only did I have a heart attack,
I had a 98% blockage in my widow maker.
And uh thankfully while I was in New
England, I didn't die cuz I ate nothing
but fried clams while I was there. And
uh anyhow, fried food. Uh y'all wouldn't
know about it. And uh but anyway,
>> that's a crazy story. So you just like
end it off over there. You threw that
in.
>> So that's wild.
>> But I had a little PTSD a little bit,
but you know, in that moment,
>> it gave me a different perspective of
life. And I don't live I don't live life
now thinking, you know, when I'm 70, 80
and I I think about I literally don't
know how long I'm going to be here
because after that I went through the
cancer three times. I be here. But I
know this. Every day I'm going to try to
make it count. Uh you know, every day
I'm going to try to make a difference.
And again, it's not about I have no
agenda. I had somebody the other day
that was mad at me and they were telling
me, you know, I don't know what your
agenda is, what you're trying to get.
I'm like, I have no agenda. Like I
literally if God let me just go live in
the country, hunt and fish and be with
my family, I would do that.
>> But that's not what he put me here for.
You know, he put
>> What was he mad at you for?
>> Yeah. Who knows?
>> He put me here for a purpose. Well, I
had I've had people come up and go, I
think the enemy is really trying to get
you. And I was like maybe but I think
God maybe has allowed me to go through
this because it you know it's like in
the New Testament there was somebody who
was you know sick and and they all asked
when Jesus healed him they all asked you
know was he was this because of his
parents sin or his sin and they and he
said no it's so God could get glory out
of him being healed. Sometimes God
allows us to go through things so that
one, he can get glory because I'm
rejoicing even in what I'm going through
because God's good no matter what, but
two, it's caused me to be able to help a
lot of people who have went through
things in their life who freak out. You
know, I I get to tell people all the
time, you know, I've never wept over the
fact I have cancer. And I'm not, you
know, people do. That's okay. I mean, I
had stage four cancer. You know, my
right kidney all around it. They had to
remove it. wasn't looking good. I never
wept over it. I said, "But you know, I I
could get in my truck while I have
cancer and I could be in a wreck. I
definitely if I'm with Lewis, I could be
in a wreck and die, but I don't Every
time I get in the vehicle, I don't start
crying because I could die." Wow.
>> And I think it's a perspective.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, yeah, I have cancer. I could
die. But but who knows that's in the
hands of God. All I got to do is just
trust him with every day he gives me and
and do the best I can with that. And so,
I think that's important. And you know,
I'm I'm honored to be in this position,
but going into it, I told them, all my
adviserss said, "Don't say this." But
I'm like, "If if I can be a help, I'm
glad to be a help, but if not, I won't
be offended if if you say, "No, we can't
use you." Cuz it's really there is no I
I have no agenda at this point in my
life.
>> Speaking of help, I got to read this
next sentence cuz you you dropped it
here earlier and I'm I'm looking at it.
I'm like, you're fighting human
trafficking and addiction and you're the
only guy who treats evil like a to-do
list. That's what Chachu sums it up as
fighting human trafficking. I mean, you
you mentioned it earlier and you're
talking about helping people and your
mission. Tell me a story of how did you
get into that? What is that like? What
have you seen? What what's that world
like? You know, we we travel through the
airports a lot and you always see signs.
I I've seen them all over by the
bathrooms even. In fact, I was in a
hotel in New York City. A really nice
hotel in like Midtown. We're talking
about a $1,000 a night hotel and near
the bathroom it there's a sign that says
if you are experienced human
trafficking, please call. And I'm like,
what is that? Is that really happening
around us? I got to hear about this.
This is this that was really one of the
things I really
>> don't know, but uh in America it's it's
a huge issue. Uh unfortunately a lot of
our um
uh a lot of wealthy business men a lot
of political leaders have been involved
in it.
>> Oh that's why it's been a problem
expensive hotels.
>> It's been a problem and this is why um
it hasn't been ended and most people are
oblivious to what's going on. I started
with an organization. There was an
organization called MASA mothers against
sexual abuse which was the very first
one. They changed the name for a little
while. while I was the president of
that, really helping them transition out
and and they were merging with another
organization. And then I started serving
on the board of an organization called
SWAT, Sports World Against Trafficking.
Uh guys like Albert Post was on there,
Ray Lewis, a lot of professional
athletes, Kevin um uh or Ernie Johnson,
uh the TNT u analysis.
>> Love Ernie.
>> I uh was probably the one of the few
that was not a pro alete. I have no idea
how I got on there, but my buddy Dr.
Matthew Dunaway that ran that. Uh, and
we were looking at one of the biggest
places that trafficking happens is at
the Super Bowl. Uh, there is more uh,
sex selling going on there than probably
anything else in America
>> at the Super Bowl.
>> At the Super Bowl. It's huge. And so
they were having a sporting events and
then I started serving on an
organization called uh, Street Grace
which created technology. And then right
now um, the Department of Interior is
working with um, Tim Tibo's foundation.
they have a a new technology that's
helping find missing children because
it's a huge problem in the tribal
nations with the Indians and so we
actually have just recently started
using this at um at different places in
the tribes and we're finding these kids
and it but it's a very huge problem and
I'll give you an example in Tennessee
where I live conservative
uh very much Bible belt faith you know
is a huge thing one of the largest uh
human traffick ers of all the southeast
lives there. Not all the time. He's
extremely wealthy. They couldn't touch
him because there was so little evidence
to pinpoint him to put him in jail for
the rest of his life because they build
these barriers, but they knew. And I
know this because I know the people that
were investigating him. I I you know,
it's amazing in technology. You know, I
know people that can find about anything
on the dark web. And I've I've requested
before. I want to know about somebody
and they'll tell me everything. And I
found out, no, they're gay, but they're
not they're not doing anything with
children. I mean, this is the kind of
stuff they can find out about people.
So, you know, for all the listeners, you
know, this is better to leave live a
clean life cuz, you know, if you don't
want anybody to know, they'll find out.
But I got asked to go on a uh what they
call a dive. That's a rescue. And go get
some children out. And I really prayed
about it. These guys are all former
special forces. They said, "Go with us."
And sometimes they go to a country, they
have to get arrested in order to get
out. That's the way they're able to get
out through the process.
And I told my buddy, I said, "Look, I um
I there's a part of me that says, "Yes,
I want to go because I want to I want to
help rescue
um I'm a hunter. I'm you know, I'm I've
got guns, all that. You know, I I didn't
get to serve in the military, but I'm
very patriotic." And there's part of me
my oldest son served. I'm like my
grandfather's shirt. I'm like, I want to
say yes. You know, uh, let me do this.
This is a way I could serve. But I said,
I'm just old enough and clumsy enough
now. I'd end up shooting one of you or
myself. I was like, let me do this. Let
me pray for you. But I have been
involved in a few things here state
side. And uh, with my own eyes, I've
seen uh, what's happened. I had somebody
on my podcast who is in his late 50s.
His dad was an all-American football
player. His mom was a cheerleader. They
had 12 children. They sold all 12 of
them into sex slavery as kids. All 12 of
them. They still have a brother that's
been missing since the '9s.
That's the only one they don't know.
Now, all 12 of them didn't even know
about each other cuz their parents would
have a couple. They would selom have
more kids. And it wasn't until somehow
they all ended up finding out all 12 of
them had the same parents that
>> How is this possible?
>> This is what I was saying as I was
listening to I'm blown away. It's on uh
Real Talk with Pastor Ben Graham. Uh you
can listen to the episode.
>> This is a real real story.
>> Real story.
>> And you have to imagine there are other
stories like this.
>> We actually have the script to make this
a a movie. It's it's a tough movie to
make but it people need to know. I'm
reading over here in 2024 the hotline
got 32,000 signals, calls, texts, online
reports about trafficking. I mean,
that's mindblowing.
>> Well, and and and the reality is is for
everyone they got um you know, you see
those, but if somebody's being
trafficked, it's very rare that they
have access to a phone to be able to
>> That's what I was thinking. You were
mentioning that there's a sign. If
you're being trafficked, call us. If I'm
being trafficked right now, I'm probably
under duress and probably under a tight
leash. They don't give them the
opportunity. Anyone's traffic.
>> I'm just saying I'm not being
trafficked.
>> You're too old. The belief there's
actually like universal sign like I
think for I know that likes
>> they they have they do have the help
they do have the help signs. That's
true. And they've actually rescued some
people. There's a recent video of a gal
at a gas station who gives the sign um
out and somebody calls it in. Then there
was another lady gas station. There was
some police there. She opened up the
door, ran out real quick, and the guy
chased after, but the police grabbed him
and arrested him before it happened.
>> Thank God.
>> But but again, I mean, you can't ask,
"Can I borrow the phone there?" No.
>> Yeah. It's crazy.
>> And when you hear when you hear I mean,
look, you know, remember in Ohio a
couple years ago, the the the people
that were locked in a basement for
years.
>> Yeah.
>> There's been other stories of that and
who knows how many more of that's going
on. Like I have some friends who are
very involved in this. They scare me
with the numbers. I hope that they're
exaggerating because some of the stuff
they throw out so high, but they're
living it every day. And and I'm and
once you get in this world, it's very
difficult. And this where I come in, I
get to counsel with a lot of these
people because it's such a police
officer struggle with what they see.
These guys, it's a whole another level.
>> You know, these officers that have to go
in and look at the evidence of people
that are involved with child pornography
and involved in these ch I mean, it's
>> terrible. Pastor, can you tell me from
the perspective of of a pastor and from
from your religion, from the
Christianity religion, there's a lot of
evil in this world. There's a lot of
darkness all over the place. People
doing insane things. I mean, um, you
know, we're somewhat normal. So, we're
very naive even to a lot of the crazy
stuff going on. From your perspective,
how would you explain this if I'm a
non-believer? If I'm someone who say,
"Ah, this whole thing with God can't be
real because look what's going on. How
is he allowing this? How how is he okay
with this? If he's the almighty and the
all powerful prevent these type of
things from happening, why are you just
watching and and not doing? Right?
That's
>> Well, isn't isn't it amazing that we
love to be able to say, "I'm my own
person. I can do whatever I want." Free
will, but then we're mad because God
lets us do whatever we want. And it
started when Adam and Eve sinned. Sin
entered into this world. And every
person who's been born since sin has
been born into sin.
There's immorality. This is why, you
know, people say this about the school
shootings. And why would God allow this
to happen? Well, we asked God to leave
our schools years ago. We kicked them
out. No prayer, no scripture, no ten
commandments. We kicked him out. So why
would God be somewhere where he's not
invited? He's a gentleman, you know. And
God gave us the right to choose. We have
free will. And unfortunately, when man
is raised without guidelines, without
morality, I mean, there's been tests
that's been proven. They did a simple
test. They did 30 at a time, did this
three times. They did a test, random
test, had the answers on the back so
people could cheat. Okay? Had cameras in
the room. They did this. Out of the
room, 78% cheated because the answers
were there. Okay?
The third group, uh, the second and
third group, they did the exact same
thing. Oh, sorry. They did it four times
because they did it twice with just like
that. The third and fourth group, they
hung the ten commandments up. Didn't say
anything about it, but they're just in
front of the room. They did the same
thing, less than 30% cheated.
And they said somehow subconsciously,
even the commandments being there
changed the perspective of the people in
the room. And so what it tells us is
morality changes the way we do things.
And we live in a society now where
people say there is no God. So if there
is no God and there's nobody that sets a
standard, we can do whatever we want.
Why wouldn't all these things be
happening? You and I don't understand it
because we're we're a a moralbased
people. We believe in God. We fear God
in the sense not like, "Oh, I'm afraid
God's going to strike me dead," but
like, "God, I reverence you. I I I want
to please you. I would never do
something like this. This is so unholy.
But, you know, uh the enemy is very real
and he works in people's lives. And so,
I I think that's the answer. And we
blame God for a lot of things, you know.
Um
you know, but this it's amazing. I wish
we had more time. There's so many things
I could say especially about with God
and Israel. You know, I don't know if
y'all ever seen the book where somebody
showed every time America turns their
back on God from a political leader, we
have a natural disaster.
>> Really? Is that
>> it's happened? You can read the book.
Every time they've documented it, uh
it's amazing. When when President uh uh
uh President Bush, the older President
Bush um spoke against Israel, that's
when the hurricane swept and hit their
vacation home in Kenny Bunkport. And
it's just amazing. I always think of the
words, you know, God is not mocked and
whatsoever man sws that will he reap.
the Bible says, you know, so you can
find that I really believe God said
we're to stand with the nation of
Israel. Doesn't mean we follow them
blindly. If leaders say stupid things
that don't line up with God, we have to
call them out and say, you know, this
isn't right. Um, you know, not every
leader that's come out of Israel has has
led with uh, you know, let me please
God. We've had secular leaders and all
that,
>> but I still think we there's a way we
stand with, you know, with the nation of
Israel without
>> saying, "Hey, do whatever you want, you
know, within reason."
>> And, you know, because at the end of the
day, it's all about morality and
morality. It's not, by the way, pastor,
I love everything that you're saying.
And, uh, I I appreciate that answer.
That's very thoughtful. Me, too, by the
way.
>> As soon as you said it, I'm like, "Wait
a second. He's right." Cuz you can't
have it both ways. You want to have free
will or you want God to just do make the
whole setup for you. So, makes a lot of
sense what you're what you're saying.
Um, I have another question about uh the
the difference between Judaism and
Christianity. And this part I do know
because I've seen it a ton in movies.
I've seen it all over. So, I know
Hollywood never lies.
>> And I've always wondered how this works.
I've sure a lot of listeners right now
are probably going to like jump on this
bandwagon and would love to hear this
this answer. But, have you ever heard of
Jewish guilt? You ever heard of that?
Yes.
>> It's a real thing. Jewish guilt is if we
do like a sin, good lord, it sits with
us for a long time and it's not worth it
for the guilt afterwards. So that also
prevents us from doing a lot of
different things because we also believe
that there's going to be a day of
reckoning. There's going to come a time
when you're going to have to answer for
all your sins. And there's a con a
concept of repentance of course and and
and today's a new day and you you could
do better, you should do better, right?
the new year uh the rash in which you
know you could start over and all that
but at the end of the day you know it's
in your mind always that oh god I the
day is going to come and it's just and
you feel guilt like I did something
wrong and I that's how it works you know
for the most part what I understand in
Christianity you go to the father you go
to a priest you sit with him in the
confession room and you tell him all
your sins of the day or the week or the
month whatever it is and he tells you
whatever he says you know blessed be you
it's all good you're forgiven, go drink
some holy water, and they walk out of
there like that's they're they're clean,
they're cleansed, and a part of me
envies that because it's a much happier
way to live, and you could probably be
better off for it. But like, what where
does that come from?
>> So, first off, we differ from Catholic
because um we believe Jesus is the
Messiah. So, you know, after he died and
was buried, rose again, he sits at the
throne of God. The Bible says in the New
Testament, we now have an advocate with
the father. So we can go directly to
him. I don't have to go to a priest. I
don't have to go confess my sins.
Anybody confess it to him when we make
him Lord and Savior of our life, he
forgives us. The Bible says we confess
our sin. He's faithful and just to
forgive us of our sins, cleanse us from
all unrighteousness. So he forgives us.
>> So then people go, "Well, you believe
you're saved, so you can just do
whatever you want." You're like, "First
off, no." Like a free pass.
>> The Bible says this, "You're not your
own. You've been bought with a price.
When I give my life to Christ, I'm not
my own anymore. I now belong to him. I
belong to God. So therefore, I don't
just live my life however I please. Does
God still give me a free will? Yes.
Could I still go do certain things? Yes,
I could. But I don't because my desire
is now to please him. So there is that.
And we know what sin is. I mean, uh,
preachers preach on sin. The, you know,
you don't do these things. You, you
don't commit adultery, you don't
whatever it might be. These are the
things you don't do. We we know what it
is. We, you know, I think God puts
inside of all of us a sense of right and
wrong. Um there's just certain things
that we've been able to justify. Well,
you know, I'm not as bad as this person,
so you know, it's, you know, yeah, I
mean, I haven't murdered anybody, but
you know, if you understand all the New
Testament, Jesus goes on to say, if you
hate your brother, you're guilty of
murder. If you think about if you think
look on a woman with lust, you're guilty
of adultery. So, he took it even further
than what the law says,
>> right?
>> Thou shalt not commit adultery and you
know, all these things. So, so you know
there is this same sense that we could
live in that but we're able to go and
this is what we teach when you recognize
I've sinned against God. I go to him in
prayer and say, you know, father,
forgive me. I'm sorry. And this is what
First John 19 says. If we confess our
sins, he's faithful. He's just to
forgive us our sins, cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. And we get that
forgiveness. And it's just like when I
wrong my wife, I go to her and I say,
you know what? I, you know, maybe I said
something I shouldn't have. Whatever it
might be, I'm sorry and I love you. And
she says, it's okay. I forgive you. I
love you. It's over.
>> Yeah. You're a smart man, brother. The
Bible says that when God forgives, he
forgives our sins. And it and he
remembers them no more. It's forgotten
as far as the east is from the west.
>> There's one thing that God cannot do.
Okay? And God can do anything. But God
cannot, this is what scripture says, he
he cannot bring up something that he has
forgiven.
Now, we are able to do that because we
forgive. You know, sometimes we're like,
we forgive, but we don't forget.
>> But God does because and that's what's
amazing about God. He's so holy. He's so
just, he's able to do that, forgive us.
So that's how we believe. But it's not
an open past of sin. There are certainly
times we feel guilty. And that's why
typically in our services, it's changed
a little bit in the contemporary
services, but typically in our service,
we have an altar time where people can
come and they can spend time in prayer,
praying, you know, in the Catholic
church, they go to the priest and they
ask for forgiveness, like you said. But
um but yeah, we don't have to live all
that time in guilt. Yeah, it's a hard
way to live, by the way. You know, it's
it's not conducive. One more question,
Michael, and then I'm going to pass it
back to you. I promise.
>> My my my last question for you, pastor.
What is one thing that stands out about
the Jewish people that not just
Christians but anybody else any other
religion whether you're not even
religious can learn from that you would
look at and you respect and you say wow
that's something very unique to the
Jewish people and that's something that
we can admire we can emulate and we
should incorporate in our side as well
and vice versa what would be something
that you think from the Christian
religion that you excel at and that the
community does very very Well, that is
something that others should emulate. If
you're taking one thing away, this is
the part that you should take away from
the Jewish people and then from the
Christian people.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, um I think you know,
two things with with the Jewish people.
I mean, there's many things, but I'll
say too, um you know, uh I think
business, uh most Jewish people I know
are brilliant in business. Uh education,
they do a great job in that. I I think
Shabbat uh you know for whatever reason
and you know the Bible says if a man
doesn't work he doesn't eat but we've
taken it to extreme like we are proud
that we work seven days a week and we
you know are busy busy busy busy and I
think this is something that um the
Jewish people understand God taught us
from the beginning he created heaven
earth six days and seventh day he rested
rest is important Shabbat is important
that time I love it when did my first
Shabbat in in Israel. Um, and watched
as, you know, uh, the father sang or the
husband saying to his wife and just
watched the whole ceremony of it and the
dinner and just the sense of unplugging
and I think more people are catching on
to that and seeing that even in the
Christian faith, more people are going,
you know, Shabbat is so important. I
think one thing that that
and Christians is such a huge such a
huge statement of people, but the ones I
come from, we're good at really trying
to help and work with the Jewish people.
And I could tell you many things we're
doing in Israel. And I think there are
Jewish people that's starting to do
this, but I think for them to let down
their guard a little bit and say, "How
can I work with Christians and help and
encourage?" because they have a lot of
wisdom especially in business uh and
other things you know um there's so much
wisdom and you know and I think we're
continuing to see that grow in our
relationships and working together in
business health um you know we all for
years we've military we've we've done a
lot together but I just think that's
important and um you know uh at the end
of the day Um,
we are blessed, you know, beyond what I
think we realize. We are so blessed uh
to live in this great country. And God
is just he's he's given us this
opportunity. And I I just say whether
you're Jewish or Christian, don't waste
the day. You know, quit quit living in
despair, depression, quit living in
discouragement. You know, get up and do
something with your life. And I found
that people don't get depressed if
they're if they're busy doing what
they've been called to do. So, you know,
if you're miserable in what you're
doing, maybe you're supposed to be doing
something different, but find that
passion. And at the end of the day, what
really helps, no matter what you're
doing, if you're helping people, if you
care about others, that I think that
changes everybody's perspective. And so,
that'd be my my
>> wow. Wow. I don't think there's anything
more to say after that. Yeah.
>> To be honest with you, I mean, that's a
beautiful way to wrap up. pastor, have
you preached before perhaps by the way,
have you done this once or twice? I'm
just curious.
>> Time or two. Uh
>> I know somebody asked me yesterday when
I was going to speak, they're like, do
you It was a He's a Jewish man, uh Ellie
Ishkov, who was he was the president of
the World Diamond Council for years, and
he's in his 80s, lives in New York City,
and he we rode together, and he heard me
speak. He's like, "Do you what do you
do? Do you prepare? What do you do?" I
was like, "I I have no idea. I want to
speak tonight." You know, I'll see the
room, the crowd, what we're doing. I
I'll I'll do that. Um but honestly, you
know, and it's even going on here. I had
no idea what we're going to talk about,
but I I just really think, you know,
I've lived a few lessons. I've learned a
few lessons in my life. I've lived a
little bit. I'm still young, but I've
lived a little bit to know uh the older
I get, the less I know.
>> And the more I have to rely on God uh
for his help. And and and you know, his
word is what really guides me. I I read
scripture every day. Uh, I'm I'm very
adamant about that, you know, and and in
the New Testament, it says, "Seek first
the kingdom of God and his
righteousness, and all these things will
be added to you." And then he goes on
about how he'll feed you, he'll clothe
you, and all those things. And I would
say most people in life are pursuing how
they get all those things. And then God
is an afterthought. And I used to tell
our church, we meet on Sundays, Sunday
morning was the pep rally. The real game
was when you left. Most people think, I
went to church, okay, I did my business
with God. now the rest of it's my life.
But it's the opposite. You know, Sunday
is that pep rally to be with other
people that believe like you. You
encourage one another. Then you go out
in the week and that's when you actually
live for God.
>> And I would say, you know, Shabbat is
this time everybody comes together and
in the times of celebration that's
coming up. That's great. But but the
real challenge is when you leave there
every day just living your faith um and
and seeking God first putting
>> sound like my rabbi
>> you're literally saying the same thing
that my rabbis has been telling
>> we've talked before
>> when you're in synagogue when you're
there like you're you're playing the
part but what are you doing when you're
leaving the
>> we talked and he told me when I was here
today to let you know that
>> you're ganging up on me I have the rabbi
yelling at me and the pastor y Michael
everybody's upset with me crazy
>> this has been a lot fun. I mean, uh,
besides that, it's it's so eye opening
to us to learn about your position and
who you are and your story and just just
mumbling words like, "Oh, you know, uh,
yeah, I survived cancer and I wrote a
book and I'm an actor and, uh, we caught
that. We caught all of it." And
honestly, I mean, I can go on for hours
also. And I I really want to continue
this conversation just more personally
than, you know, just like, you know,
just on this. And I invite you to our
Shabbat table anytime you're up here in
Rockland County. You know, Charlie Kirk
said the same thing. They asked him,
"What are some of the things you could
learn from the Jews?" Somebody asked him
that question. And this is what he
answered also. Yeah.
>> He said the Shabbah. He said he turned
off his phone. He said from Friday night
to Saturday night, he turned his phone
off. Of course, later on in his life, he
started turning his phone off. And
that's just one variable of what we do
on the show.
>> His wife was a big influence on that.
She grew up in New York City.
>> Oh, so she was familiar with
>> She was a big influence on that. And she
talked about it changed his life. Uh,
and I mean all of us, I mean, if we're
we live busy lives, I'm involved in
ministry, business, everything else. You
need that time just to unwind.
>> It's a gift. It's a really a gift.
>> Uh, we have a couple of things that we
like to do before we wrap up. So, first
of all, do you have any questions for
us? It's an opportunity for you to ask
us any questions.
>> Well, no, just thank you for letting me
be on here. I'm honored. I I hope to get
back and uh you know, it's uh an
interesting conversation for me as well.
I'm you know, I'm uh just honored to be
here today.
>> We really appreciate that. And uh
another thing we always ask our guests
is if you can pick someone to be a
future guest on our podcast that can
fill that seat, who would you recommend?
Someone in your phone book, someone in
your black book,
>> preferably a celebrity.
>> Well, then I throw out Rob Schneider.
>> No, Rob Schneider.
>> Rob Schneider.
>> Stop it.
>> Rob Schneider. I I this is my Rob
Schneider story. I uh my son was getting
married and I mentioned Corbin Bernson
earlier. He was in a show called Psych,
which was my son. It was his favorite
show. I know the show.
>> So I was telling Corbin about it. He
said he said I'll send he said I will
send a video congratulating him. So he
did. Well then Governor Huckabe was
Jordan was born in Arkansas and so
Governor Huckabe sent a video. So I was
like what's Jordan's favorite movie?
It's Home Alone 2. It's always been his
favorite movie. I was like who do I know
in that? And I was like well I got Rob
Schneider's number. So I text Rob and I
don't know if he's going to respond or
not. You know I've never asked something
like this for him. I sent it to him.
Four minutes later, I get boom, I get a
video back and it's Rob and he's like,
"Congratulations, Jordan, man. I'm so
proud of you. You can do it." He does
that. Well, I look and he's in a Raising
Canes. That's a fast food restaurant hat
and apron. And I'm like, "Don't tell me
Rob is so broke he's having to work at a
fast food restaurant. What's going on?"
>> So, I go on his Instagram or on his
Twitter handle and I look it up on X and
he was there doing some promo, a new
movie he did. the guy that funded the
movie owns all these raising canes. So,
he was doing a promo. He literally
stepped out,
>> did the video for me, and stepped back
in. I couldn't believe it. And so,
>> but I'll show you when we go off here.
I'll show you the video. It's It's the
greatest thing. But, um, yeah, I don't
know why he was the first person before
you even said famous. He was the first
person popped to my mind.
>> Well, that's a guy that can't say no to
you. So, uh,
>> Dr. Pastor, if you get him to come on to
this show, Rob Graham, I will be
internally grateful to you. He happens
to be one of the I think funnier actors
of our time. He hasn't done movies
lately, but back in the day,
>> I don't think there's a Jewish friend of
mine that doesn't know that you just
Adam Sandler and all the movies that
he's done. And by the way, he started
doing standup comedy more recently and
he's starting comedy. His bits are out
of this world. He's very he's good at
standup.
>> A lot of u political but not political,
but you know, funny.
>> He's doing it just enough, just right.
And and he's he's phenomenal. Um would
love love love.
>> You know the tradition that we have is
that you call him and that you ask him
on the podcast.
>> Give it a shot. Let's
>> You want to give it a shot?
>> No. No. No. No. No. Okay. Okay.
>> This is what we do.
>> No. This is what we do.
>> Well, Lewis is nodding his head.
>> I don't know, man. I would put you up to
the test. Well, I tell you what, I I
will reach out to him.
>> Okay.
>> I will reach out to
>> Done. We'll settle for that.
>> You know, uh we really appreciate you
being here and really uh you know the By
the way, great questions. Thank you.
>> Really great questions. And what even
better than the questions were the
answers.
>> Yeah, it was fantastic.
>> Love the dial. We got to do round two or
even round three one subscribers. Thank
you to all our listeners. Thank you to
all of our growth, to all of our fans,
to the Prime Source production team, to
Twillery.
>> We love the feedback. We love the
growth. We love what we're doing here.
And uh on behalf of all of us, happy new
year because our Jewish New Year is
coming up. So, uh, you know, uh, any
message that you have to to people
listening? You know, it's our Jewish new
year. It's just a
>> No, I wish you a happy new year and you
know, every new year is a chance. It
really is kind of a restart. Uh, and so
as you're getting ready to go into it,
reflect. Um, ask God to show you what
needs to be better to change and, uh,
and then start it off uh, the new year
and, uh, take it day at a time. And if
you do something 30 days, it becomes a
habit.
>> Love it. Thank you so much, pastor. It's
a wrap. Thank you, pastor.
>> Amazing.
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