Leaving NY for Cleveland: Why Aaron Lichtenstein Bet Big on Wound Care—and Won

to New York uh knowing two things. Uh number one is Cleveland rocks, but we still trying to figure out why. And the second thing is that if you want a place that you can afford to live, and I tell this to people all the time, move to Cleveland. Yeah. Um so I am curious about your uh journey of we'll put the hotels, you know, in first in a second. Our add kicking in. [Music] None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. Welcome back everybody to another revealing episode of the None of Your Business podcast. I'm your host Michael Greenfield. Joined with me is my co-host Oshi Schwarz and we are produced by the Prime Source team. Thank you for everyone behind the scenes. Thank you for liking, subscribing, commenting, and getting involved. Uh guys, I have a new thing that I'd like to start with today and that is Chap GPT said what? So, in order to introduce our next guest, I'm not going to just introduce Aaron Likenstein. I'm actually going to tell you Aaron what Chat GPT has to say about you. Okay? That way you get to know what the world thinks and the world gets a little bit about you. There is another Aaron Lenstein out there. He was like the Russa of Gush, you know, of of all these, you know, big yeshiva. So let's see what they said about me. That's not you. That's not me. No, but let's see what they came back. Related to you? No. I get it all. Confuse you with it. I've gotten business in the modern orthodox world because he is their like big Russia. He was Nifter a few years ago and he's like the guy that everyone like they asks me are you related to him? Let's see what chat GBT came back. Okay. Aaron. Okay. Aaron's booth pulls more nurses than morning rounds. If you're looking for the crowd, just follow the buzz and probably the snacks. Okay, that's number one. So, I guess you're you're a big trade show guy. I I do go to a lot of trade shows. How many trade shows would you say? Now, it's down to like three or four a year, but then you have the big like the E-CAP and LTC100s that you go to and not like a trade show booth. Um, but I'm big believer of people having booths at trade shows. You know, when people say, "I'm just going to work the floor." I think you got to have a booth sometimes. Okay, we'll get to that. I I I hear what you're saying, but you can afford to have a booth at everything. So, sometimes people like to absolutely go to places. Uh, used to be an accountant, so yes, your ROI pitch better add up or he'll find the decimal you missed. GPT. Uh, you left Brooklyn for Cleveland and actually brags about it. Oh gosh. Okay. Uh, you're a low-key LinkedIn hotel reviewer. If he stays there, you'll hear about it. Okay. And then finally, you turn negative pressure wound therapy into positive energy, making it sound sexy. Okay. This is Chat GPT's version of you. It's not mine. What do you think? Not bad. Yeah. Yeah, I'm accurate. You know, not not the accounting part, but other than that, you know, pretty good. You were an accountant. I was an accountant. I worked uh I got married in 20 uh 2010 and the economy wasn't doing too well and for some reason my parents said you should go to college. So I went to actually down the street from here I went to the PCS accounting program and somehow I ended up at Deote and then I went to work at Ernston Young. I was in the real estate tax group and uh I worked there. I I did decent not not that great. Um I worked under this partner his name is Saul Cone who's excellent to me treated me really well and uh somehow after being there you know for a bunch of years I decided you know what I want to leave accounting it's not for me so I started going to recruiting firms and they said you're an accountant you got to stay in accounting and they said you know why don't you come work for us so I became a recruiter for a year it's the hardest job placing people because people are crazy you know it's their whole life is their is their uh is their job and then from there my family's business in the negative pressure wound therapy business in nursing home started to expand and I joined the business eight years uh nine years ago around this this time of year nine years ago uh funny story about working as an accountant he used to make a joke this partner and he used to say that you know you're like an average quarterback he said you might win a playoff game if you have a good team around you but you're never gonna win a Super Bowl you know so if you have all the right receivers you know he's big sports analogy guy he was very good to If you have the good staff underneath you and good supporting team, you'll do okay. But I'll tell you one thing, the pressure you're under when you work in the big four is unbelievable. And today I don't get stressed when I'm working on something because the deadlines and the amount of work that you have to do and the hours you have to put in and the the amount of preparation and looking things over is so hard and so much that you really have to you really have to be like you know it kind of trains you for like today and the things that I learned there like my Excel skills and anything I do is I didn't waste any time there you know it kind of you know it's not transitions completely bought into sales but something that really I think really helped me. I have a lot of friends that are in that world of deote or top four you said big four. Yeah. What are the big four? Ernston Young. KPMG. Deote PWC. Oh PWC. Okay fine. Those are the top four accounting firms. Correct. So whenever you meet someone in you know and he says oh I'm an accountant. I work for the big four. He he means one of those one of those. But the trajectory of th that industry is usually to become a partner and make a lot of money. I mean, this is the reason people go into it. Yeah. Or they go private and become a CFO of a hedge fund or a private equity fund, real estate fund. Uhhuh. That's the world of finance. I'm always curious about these things because of careers for people. I always like to know this is a career people can go into if they like accounting, but you're saying it's very very I was in real estate tax. So, I was just working on real estate funds doing their K1s basically taking taxable income and then kind of make taking their income and turning into taxable income for these big partnerships. It wasn't like I was doing personal tax returns or people's tax returns. their investors or institutional investors and basically we would give them their K1s and show them what their taxable income was. I'm already bored. So you're saying bored and you were stressed and today with AI and and offices overseas, I promise you it's not so complicated, you know. But you're saying yet it was still a lot of pressure. Still a lot of pressure, a lot of deadlines, a lot of changes. Yes. A lot of deadlines, tight crunch times, late nights, a lot of ordering in food and stuff. So Okay. So you went from potentially being a partner in an accounting to doing LinkedIn reviews on hotels successfully without stress obviously, right? Exactly. What happened? Like Well, what happened was when I was doing this recruiting thing, I didn't like it and the business, you know, started to pick up, you know, my father's business. Now, my father started this business in 2005. He worked at Tri-State Surgical for 20 years. He was at a trade show one time, the Met trade show, which I'm sure you've heard of. And they they had this thing called the negative pressure machine. Now, at that time, there's only one company that did it. It was called KCI. It's owned by 3M today. And he saw that this company, Blue Sky, decided to come out with this wound vac. What a wound vac is, it does negative pressure suction therapy to wounds that are very nasty. Okay? And he went to his boss and he said, "Hey, we can do this thing for a lot cheaper." He says, "We're not in the rental business. We do medical supplies. DM me. We don't do this thing." So he decided that he's going to start doing this thing on his own. So went to his boss, had an idea, didn't know. He said, "I'm going to do it on my own." Took him some time. And he started taking these things. They were look like a KitchenAid back then. They weren't, you know, woundback today looks like a tissue is the size of a tissue box. It's a machine size of tissue box. And uh and he kind of started going around and bring them out of the back of his Toyota Camry, like a 1999 Toyota Camry, and bring them into the facilities and say, "Hey, you need a wound back. I have it $65 a day, you're paying $180 with this other company. And he made a that if I have 15 machines out, I'm making enough money that I was making at that job. And for those that don't know, when it you get a wound, someone gets a wound, diabetic wound or posturgical wound, postsurgical wound, amputation wound. Sure. And then there's different stages of wounds that happen on a person's body, right? Stage one, two, three, and four. This is three and four usually, right? So you can treat it with some bandages and some creams, but if it gets too deep and too difficult to treat, then you need to do a wound vac. Sort of like a vacuum that vacuum, but it sucks very, you know, very, very, very little on the wound. And what it does is it brings, you know, it's a bandage with a tube going into the machine. And what it does is it brings oxygen and blood from the rest of the body to the wound and it promotes healing. Similar, you ever watch Michael Phelps swim? He has like, you know, those red circles on the back on the back. That's suction cupping therapy. What it's doing is it's bringing, you know, it's not an open wound, but they kind of suck out all the air of this, you know, it's called a bonkus actually. That's what they used to call it back in Europe when people would get sick. Suction therapy on the wound on the on the body and it promotes, you know, his muscle care and stuff. You know, you ever heard of suction cupping therapy or anything like that? It's very popular in sports. Very popular. Yeah. You see a lot of athletes on the court and they have like these red round red circles on their body and it's become very popular among athletes to do the suction. What's it called? suction cupping or suction cupping. Suction cupping appears iron. That's what mata is actually by a brisk honestly. It's it's it's bringing blood. What? Yeah. I'm telling you that's what it is that when they do that's what it is. It promotes healing. It's bringing blood to the actual wound to make sure it heals better. It's not just a ritual. There's there's a there's a thing to it. I I I almost don't want to describe what Matita is, but I'm just Oh, we don't have to. Okay. Move on from this. But that's fascinating. I not a topic that will be well researched. So you're saying when you're um cutting the baby's uh little schmemeckle and you're circumcising and it's bleeding, you want to suck the blood to the point of the wound so that it heals properly. Correct. And therefore people do it and uh we recommend that they don't do it by mouth and they use the device which has been out there for over a decade. This is the hockey portion of the Okay. Yeah. That's just the part that I'm always fascinated by when I go to a bris or something and everyone's watching. What are you what you trying to learn? So I guess maybe uh there's some wound doctors there watching. you ever see little children watching? It's like I always try to push them away. I don't think it's uh meant for them. But I'm curious about that uh the wound world because Ushi and I have been on a journey for the past few weeks learning about placenta and the idea of membranes and taking it to heal wounds in a way that no one else can heal it. Do you know about this world? It's becoming the new cash advance type business. Now you know Mendy Worsh the way he explained cash advance it was unbelievable. I I enjoyed that part on on your podcast. It's like the new ABA is that for somehow the insurance companies when they do a placenta uh change they're going to give thousands of dollars. What what is Can you explain what that is? You know it's basically an artificial skin skin that they're basically um after many treatments of trying to heal a wound and there's documentation for 6 weeks or four weeks. I don't know the exact numbers. You're allowed to order one of these pieces and they the reimbursement is ridiculously high on that. But it helps heal the wound. It helps heal the wound. Yes. Officially. Officially yes. That's like the new thing and people are if it really works or it doesn't work. But right now the insurance companies are paying a lot of money for that thing and we're not in that world. Artificial skin that you're putting. That's what it is. It's like a skin graft. They heal a very high level wound. That's what it is. It's tissue from the placenta I believe. What is that about? From the placenta. They're saving it and they're sending it and they're creating a skin graft out of it. It's fascinating stuff. Right. Apparently, this has been around for a while. It's not new technology, but it just hasn't been as exposed as it is right now. And the Medicare reimbursement for it is ridiculously high. It's in the thousands of dollars per square inch per square inch. So you can have, you know, a 4x4 um area that, you know, could potentially be 15$20,000 just to tend to that little area, that wound. I I get people reach out to me on LinkedIn saying uh they just got into this uh people that, you know, let's do a JV together. Voice notes are coming in. It's like a gold rush. They don't even know what what I do. They just see wound care on LinkedIn. They think wound care is one thing. The wound care industry is a billions of dollar industry. There's so many aspects of wound care. Um you have the gentel people, you have the healing partners people, all those, you know, companies that do wound care. I'm in one specific area of wound care. But when someone just jumps into this business, they think that I'm, you know, yeah, wounds are a very serious topic. very serious topic because when somebody's bedridden and somebody is not getting enough movement in their body and if they're in a coma, if they're immobile, whatever it might be, and they start getting ulcers, pressure ulcers, and they start getting these very severe wounds, what's going to happen is it's also going to delay your rehabilitation because it becomes very uncomfortable and you can't do therapy properly. So it overtakes your your entire treatment if you have a wound that wasn't managed properly along the way. It becomes very difficult to ever recover to ever really recuperate and it's something you could contend with for a very long time. It's one of the major issues that we have in our hospital systems today is that they're not moving people around enough. They're not getting enough blood flow into the body and different pressure points into the body. And you know, if you don't have a good wound care treatment plan, then it can derail your entire recovery process for the rest of your life potentially and you'll always have to contend with that wound that you had. And if they're not not healing, it gets worse and it gets worse and it's very uncomfortable. It's very painful. It's a really really big area of concern. And I think wound care companies are a very big integral part of what goes on in a skilled nursing facility in that environment where you have older people, their skin breaks down a lot faster. It's much more sensitive. And I think what you're doing, your company is really helping promote the healing. And the technology that you have behind your devices, from what I understand, heals in about 15 to 20 days. It all depends on if the patients, you know, how healthy they are. Also, you know, some patients are healthier than others to heal faster. Just like what makes your device from Wound Healing Technology, who by the way, we didn't touch on his company yet. I think we should talk about WHT, Wound Healing Technology. They've been around now for 20 years. 20 years or so. Yes. He started, you know, we started You guys have very big market share. You're in a lot of nursing homes across the country. Is nursing homes the only market that you're Now, we started manufacturing our own products, you know, the last three years. So, besides for that, we're starting to sell to other DME companies. So if you have a DME company in Florida that services maybe 50 homes, we'll sell them the devices and the supplies to them also like a wholesale model. Like a wholesale model because we manufacture it also. You know what, Aaron, as a thank you for coming down to our podcast today. This event, this uh podcast is going to be sponsored by Wound Healing Technology. Well, thank you for that. And if you uh want to learn more about them, contact the Prime Source Expense Advisor today and ask us how we can help heal the wounds in your facility. Absolutely. That's good. You mentioned earlier about KCI. I I'll tell you we are the when we say our company at the end of the day you want to say KCI. So, look at KCI as like they're their Mercedes-Benz, you know, the industry standard, you know, and a car or BMW for that matter. Um, something that is the ultimate driving machine. Let's just say that. But then you have other cars that want to copy BMW. They'll come out with a new feature, but then every other industry is going to copy them also. But at the same time, your car is going to go is going to drive well, and a Genesis is going to is going to drive also. Well, it might not be the the leader in the thing, but negative pressure suction therapy does work. Now, where the difference is between what we do and other companies is is that we invest a lot of education. And you were saying is that a really, you know, the healing should be 15 to 20 days to heal a wound. Is that our clinical team, what they'll do is they'll train the facilities. And this is where we took off from being a small company to being in the 18800 facilities is that our fac our nurses train the people in the facilities on how to use a device. And if you know what you're doing with WoundVac versus not knowing what you're doing, it could be double the amount of time. So when people say to me, hey, your price is a little more, I can get a little cheaper. I said, our company specializes in this area will teach your nurses how to do it. Everybody wants education. Yes, that is what I'm seeing is you see these people have courses uh you know they have a courses and they're making millions of dollars you know they you know I don't know whatever courses they're doing you offer education you train 100% I used to be you guys invest a lot in training also yeah we're big believers in education very big I come from that world uh one of the companies I used to work for very large possibly the largest uh medical supply disposable company and they always used to preach they always used to say this uh at Norium they would say this and It's true. It really really was uh it really came to fruition is that there are many people selling medical supplies. Everybody can ship you a box. Everybody can sell you a product. And you know what? The products are all very similar within range of each other. Nobody's product is that much better than the next person's product. But where you differentiate yourself is how you train people to use those. The application of the products is really the key. That's the driver if you're going to get the outcomes that you desire. And if you don't provide that training, if you don't teach people how to properly use it, the functionality of the product, that's going to change the game. So, it sounds like you guys are taking that very seriously in the educational department. And I think that if you really are excelling at that, people appreciate it and people want it. People welcome getting the education on a consistent basis and the re-education, making sure that that's always available. And it sounds like that's very important to you guys. Yeah. Knowledge when you teach someone is knowledge of selling. You know, today's sales people are very different than the classic used sales person, car salesperson, you know, out there. I think today people can chat GBT anything like you just found out information about me, but like people could do their own research, right? So the best the salesperson bill that used to just say this is the best, this is the price, this that and the other. Today the quiet salespeople are the ones that are killing it, you know, the ones that kind of educate and listen and understand the needs that people have today. I think those are like the the future of the sales people because anyone can look up anything. Speaking of knowledge, by the way, I just want you guys to know I uh was around when KCI started. And the reason why I'm bringing it up is because I sat on a plane once with a guy and um it's kind of a funny story, so I'll just share it with you real quick, but I was I was the only time that I actually was scared on an airplane is when I was on a JetBlue flight and the wheel wasn't opening up properly and we watched ourselves on television. I saw you were on that flight. Yeah. I I happen to be a big aviation like it's a a hobby of mine but like that jet blue flight you know with the sparks coming out of the front you where were you coming from? I was it was Buffalo I believe or something like that. How long ago was this? Over a decade. Over a decade ago. It's a famous video probably millions. I'm sitting next to a guy and he's a Jewish guy and uh and and we're kibitzing the whole time. Oh, you fly a lot? Yeah, I fly all the time. Yeah. Used to be nervous. Yeah, I used to be nervous. My hands used to be sweaty and and you know I used to put my hand You ever put your hand by the ear vent because it gets sweaty because you get nervous. That was me when I started to fly. I learned actually how to get a little bit less nervous when I fly. One of the tricks that I would do is as I would take off, I would video what was happening outside and sort of like live through the camera. So it's like not reality like I'm like looking at the camera instead of looking, you know, and then trying to like distract myself. So anyway, so did you fly again right away the next? Yeah. Yeah. I fly almost every week. So like No. Did you right after that you were like, "Yeah, that's fine." On the horse. Wow. So, I'm talking to this guy and I'm and and I'm saying like, "Yeah, you know, I used to be nervous, now I'm better." And so on. And suddenly we hear, "Uh, ladies and gentlemen, uh, we're uh, you know, before we knew it, all they said was head between your knees. Head, bend down, head between your knees." Like they just kept saying it over and over again. Anyways, finally when we landed, I looked at the guy. I'm like, "By the way, thanks for being next to me." And, you know, you know, you know, what do you do for a living? Like, who are you? So he says,"I the guy that waits for the patent to run out and I manufacture drugs that mimic any patent that's out there in the industry." And he taught me the idea of patents and uh manufacturers who spend years on R&D, right? And look at different products and say, "Okay, they come out with a certain type of product. They have a certain amount of years. Nobody can compete with them." I don't know if you guys know Teva tea the Maybe you can look it up. How many years does a manufacturer have the rights to their uh drug? Let's just say what would you say? Tea. What? Teva. It's a big pharmaceutical um generic brand company. They're based out of Israel. Yeah. And they're they're they're all they do is produce generic drugs when they think and they have to wait just wait till Ompic runs out. You know the patent on that, you know, forget it, you know. Exactly. By the way, so KCI when they first got started, they had a patent on their filter. Correct. Which is why they were able to rent it for whatever price they wanted. They lost the lawsuit. Yeah. they they ran out and so knowledge is you're we're talking about knowledge and education when you want to get involved in a product knowing that there's certain times that being said though when a manufacturer puts it in the R&D for their patent and it runs out sometimes you're able to see that you know you take a colonopen I've taken a colonopin before and the brand differences between one colonopin and another is completely different right and it's just interesting that a generic versus a non-generic and that's how I used to get through flights by just taking colonopin it's been a while but Yeah. So, Steph, 20 years. It says right here. Wow. No, that's a patent. That's not a medical uh that's not a I'm talking about a pharmaceutical patent. Yeah. A drug. Drug. Talking about a drug. I think it's I think it's less. I think it's three to five years. Uh but yes, a pharmaceutical patent can be 20 years, etc. So, those are things that happen as well, but pretty crazy. You mentioned earlier about, you know, a guy coming to you on LinkedIn and being out there, you know. Um, I just want to mention real quick that the idea of having you on our podcast is amazing. You're a friend. You've been at so many conferences and trade shows that we've been One second. Let's just rewind the seven years. Seven years. Okay. Okay. So, that's that's the answer. Um, Oshi and I were playing toss ring toss. Okay. On your wine bottle uh at the other at the trade show a few months ago. So, you always have great gimmick you come up with at trade shows. But LinkedIn, I think, is one of your specialties. And something that I'd like to do is start inviting LinkedIn people into the podcast, like people that are in this world. So, thank you very much for breaking that wide open for us. I I I'm happy to be here. First, I'm going to call you. How many followers do you have? I I don't go and click through it to add people. So, when people, let's say, reach out to me, I I'll add them. You never checked how many followers you have? I know I do. I have five and a half. I have like I don't There are people that just try to outreach and get thousands. You're saying you want quality versus I want quality. So, I have around 6,000 things, but I think the reach is pretty far because the way LinkedIn works is I mean, the algorithm keeps changing, but I can't even keep track. I've seen your post for your 6,000 connections, you have a lot more engagement than people with 30,000 uh connection because I when I started, I actually started doing sales tips, like videos of of sales tips and a two-minute video when video was just starting out on LinkedIn. Um, and I just wrote down I was on a flight once, I wrote down 20 different topics of sales tips. Uh, and then for some reason when COVID hit, I just stopped doing it because I don't know anybody that was selling them, you know. I I I I actually pivoted into that PPE world uh pretty quickly, you know, because we manufacture products in China. One of the first people to get stuff on there and then during co no one wants to hear talk about what you're talking about in a meeting or when you go into meeting, how to give a handshake, how to make good eye contact with somebody. No one wants to hear about that. So, kind of that stopped. Today, it's Hanken, you know, who I think should, you know, should be on this podcast. um he's up to sales pro tip number 49 and and he does these quick videos of sales tips to people which I think are extremely valuable. So I have to thank you Aaron because before this podcast I tried probably three different things uh to get out there from a promotional marketing branding perspective. One of them was my LinkedIn lives and uh we did one uh you know I I just first of all thank you for you know jumping at it and and being there for me when we first started any out there. give us your top sales tip. What What would it be if you've done it and is listen is to listen and understand and take notes. You know, Manny Reposo, remember that post you did on Manny Reposo that went viral. Literally, he didn't even know he hasn't logged into LinkedIn in 10 years, right? when he's at a meeting and I watched him I don't know 2018 at the Nick when I was just starting and I'm sitting there and he you know I met him you know right when I started and he's sitting there with a notepad and he's just listening and he's writing and he's writing he's taking information and he's just like letting the person talk and I think when you go into a sales meeting and I like to talk I have to literally bite my tongue half the time and the more you listen and more understand them they're going to they're going to do that and it goes for like an interview when you go on an interview, right? Ask them questions and then let the other guy talk. You know, those types of things in sales, people feel good about letting them talk about their business, their nursing homes, their nurses. And that's I think the number one tip that no one that really goes no one realizes. I like that. I think people realize it. I just think it's hard to execute. It's very hard to do. Everybody always has something to say. They want their voice to be heard. My tongue hurts right now. I mean, I have to listen to that. I mean, yeah. So yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's an art form. It's something that you have to master. It's something that you have to work through to prevent yourself from talking too much. And and listening, but I agree with you. I think listening is a key element to capturing the audience and, you know, to make them feel like you care about them. You're not just trying to sell them something, but you're trying to, you know, you're trying to solve a solution, a problem with the solution. And I think that you know listening is if you have the combination of someone who likes to talk like me and you know everyone at this in this podcast and they see that you actually could listen you're a winner. Yeah. It's like you're batting a thousand because you have both skills and they see that you're actually paying attention. I'll take that as a compliment. I'm telling you that's something that's huge. You know on LinkedIn one of the things you did is you started this hotel reviews which I love and and for the record I'm going to say it here. We did an office review for the first time here in Prime Source on Oshi's office. We're going to post it and I'm telling you that's going to go viral for I I'm I'm you know what I think I next time I go to someone's office I don't care who it is I'll be like hey you know administrator over like let's let's do a review here and stuff let's do an office review how some people have really cool offices there a lot of people that have these crazy offices I tell you though she and I both know this we have a friend a client who's a big nursing home operator who has everything together you know he has all his you know together like he's very systematic Every Tuesday he does his payroll and every Wednesday he does this. And you go to his office, he's got mountains of papers everywhere. You can't even see him. You have to like go like this in order to see the guy because he has so many pieces of paper on his desk. It looks like a landfill. Really? Yeah. And I I think doing office reviews is a good one. But I I think people they say you can judge someone's office their personality by their office like a house. But I I think there are people that you know they know where everything is, you know, even though Sure. It's a systematic organiz organized chaos. Yeah, organized chaos. So, so how did that thing start with the hotel review? What is that all about? Okay. So, did Dave Port have anything to do with it by any chance? No. But this is this is Was he in relation? Of course. The pizza review thing is good. Now, now there's another thing that that uh you know, I don't have Instagram, but my wife told me that there is a uh a lady in Manhattan that she reviews bathrooms in Manhattan. It's called Got to Go, apparently. and she'll tell you where the best bathrooms are in Manhattan, whether the third floor on SA in Saks Fifth Avenue or and and or in Restoration Hardware in the Meatacking District. Great bathroom there. I just want to let you know anybody can walk in. Anyone can walk in there. I'm going to go test this out. You should test it out. It's literally a beautiful bathroom like like like tile to the ceiling. It's furniture store. Loud music playing. No, it's just like peaceful and and everything's good. You know, good toilet paper. Everything's good. I was referencing a restaurant that I went to where the loud music was playing and I was thankful because you want sometimes the music to be louder than the person. No, but the bathrooms are like kind of No, no, if you know what I mean. No, the bathroom is not like a stall. It's a room. Can you explain to me, this is, by the way, a phenomenon that I've seen, it's a universal ler. I still to today, I'm 38 years old and I don't understand it. Why when when when a a public store makes a restroom, do they have the stalls where it's starts three feet from the floor, it ends like six feet, you know, it's like and and like what's why are we all under the same stratosphere, you know, doing business, you know, right next to the other person. What is so hard to just make the wall the the go all the way up? Why can't we give a little privacy? What happens question by the what's the benefit of it? And and then what about urinals without walls? Like come on. They have walls, but again, very flimsy walls. It's like barely there almost. You know what's the point? I don't know. There's a show that it can't even be that much more expensive to do it right and to do it all the way. I was just as shocked as you. And I met a guy that actually sells partitions of bathrooms. And I asked him this question around 10 years ago. And he said to me, "It's fire safety." Wow. Fire safety. Fire safety. Apparently, if something goes wrong and you're locked in, you can get out from underneath. You can crawl in. You can get the person out. All right. Any room in the building is closed and closed. This is the one area when you're doing your business that worried about a fire. Catch you PT this please. Why in the world are the Yeah, we need to I need to hear all the way down. Why do I need to see the guy's feet right next to me? Why do I also like need to hear him breathing like he was right next to me and then rolling the toilet paper. I hear everything. It's like we're we're in this together, you know, like we're we're what's what's the what's up with that? I I agree with you. I mean, there are places in Boro Park that have urinals that are way too close to one another. Trust me, I've been there and I am telling you these are issues. It's a it's a three-fold answer. I believe it has to do with cost, has to do with uh emergencies, let's say. Okay, that's there you go. And uh for cleaning purposes, like so you can actually open the doors and they can just they just hose down the place. It's terrible, by the way. It's terrible. It sounds like it's everybody else's convenience but mine. That's what it sounds like. But the person that's actually going to be sitting in there. It's just uncomfortable. It's like one of those things like you want your little space. You know, like dogs that go to like a corner, our cat, they go to the corner like, you know, why do we have to be so exposed and vulnerable when we're when we're doing that? It's just very annoying. I I I completely agree. And I think, you know, in the the in the Meepacking District over there by the Restoration Hardware, that bathroom is just is just is is great. The best one in Manhattan. And I happen to like the Meepacking District in general, you know, even though I live in Cleveland, so you know, it's just uh you know, but that bathroom is is good. So, you ever hear the Cleveland song? Yeah. The famous Cleveland song. Their tagline is at least we're not Detroit. But you know what something? Living out of town. Yes. Absolutely. Of course I don't talk about but he's getting insulted. No. But one thing I learned by living out in Cleveland um and I moved there uh eight years ago is that living out of town has advantages, but I will never talk bad about another out of town community. When someone says, "Oh, at least we're not Detroit or Baltimore's this or that." You know, you can make fun of any community, but one thing I learned is I don't make fun of out, you know, because it's plenty to make fun of Cleveland. So, just for the record, the song is very funny. Oh, it's hilarious. And it's not, you know, so much about making fun of another town. It's making fun of Cleveland specifically for sure. You know, we grew up in New York. We carved you out and we literally just picked we grew up in New York uh knowing two things. Uh number one is Cleveland rocks, but we still trying to figure out why. Mhm. And the second thing is that if you want a place that you can afford to live, and I tell this to people all the time, move to Cleveland. Um, so I am curious about your uh journey of We'll put the hotels, you know, in the first in a second. Our add kicking in. That's Listen, you know, um, what happened was is that I was flying, you know, when I joined the family business, I would go start going to facilities out on Long Island, and for some reason, every time I would go there, they're like, "Yeah, we know about you. We'll get in touch." And I went on a map and I said there are 950 nursing homes in the state of Ohio and nobody is doing what I do and I can fly in and out the same day. Not not a big deal. I was living in Brooklyn, flew in and out and then it would turn to two days. I'll fly into Columbus, drive up to Cleveland for another meeting and then they used to have this uh shuttle flight that fly, you know, for $300 you would fly from Cleveland to Cincinnati and it would fly out that night to to cl you know to back back home. And I was doing this over and over again and we're picking up a lot of accounts out there. And it wasn't just Cleveland, it was, you know, Indianapolis. Nobody was doing this in the Midwest. So, I had a fire in my apartment in Brooklyn. And after living with my in-laws for a few months, the rent was crazy, you know, and I said to my wife, like, get free tuition, you know, or half tuition. You get a tuition voucher living in Cleveland. You get a house for 350 $300,000 back then and let's let's give it a shot. and I'm there eight years, you know, so I I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not going to complain about it. And it's only from community that you could buy a house, a three-bedroom, one and a halfbedroom house still for three $400,000 and still drive 7 and a half hours from Cleveland to Lakewood or to Munie, everywhere else, and you have three schools and supermarkets there. It's not perfect. You don't have everything, but at the same time, it's a great Jewish community. I'm not advocating for for Cleveland and growing and growing and growing and growing. And I don't tell people to move to Cleveland. I don't go. There are people that actually host people for Shabas almost every week that are looking into living there. I don't I don't push it. Now, I had my growing pains. It wasn't easy in the beginning. It wasn't easy for my family. I don't push it. But hey, I'm happy. And it makes sense. I'm happy for you to be honest. I really am. I I met a couple that has two young kids and they are currently on a journey of figuring out where to live in the United States and they spent already a year researching this and spending Shabas in Texas, Shabas in Tennessee, Shabas in Ohio, Shab and they keep going. They're learning about the different uh you know towns and what the difference is between you know the schools and the restaurants and the and how they want to raise their kids and that's always a big one. How do you want to raise? So, it sounds like they're going to spend their whole lives trying to figure out where they live and then at a certain point they're going to realize, wait a second, we actually need a 55 and older uh apartment right now because it's too late on the podcast. Tell them not to overthink it. Tell them to No, no, I don't agree with you. Do a little research it. I think they're doing the world a favor. I don't agree with you. You should get them on the podcast. They can kind of go through the young couples who are getting You want to buy a house in Muny today? It's impossible. Theim come, they raise up the prices and you're done. I mean you you know what's going on in Muny right now with the battle between the communities in in Muny and yeah I saw a petition someone there something come isn't that what's going on with the real estate market and how they're overpaying for houses to control the market you just there's nowhere to live anymore and then you know you're paying the private taxes and you're paying the I had the I like that episode with the controller the the he was great you know uh town supervisor town supervisor yeah you guys look like you pay a lot of taxes we think how much is your taxes Uh, property tax, uh, it's going to be like 15,000 on my house. Oh, that's not Well, you have you have a bigger house though now, so Yeah. Yeah. I'm moving in a week. Yeah. But a typical three $400,000 house is 8 n 8 9,000. There's actually like a tax statement now in in my area, they want people to knock down your house and build it. They're giving like a 15-year tax payment. So, the the houses that are like run down that no one want to take now everyone's like grabbing and stuff. Wow. One thing I did when it comes to raising my kids out of town, I did raise them to be Yankees fans, you know. Nice. Yes. Very important. Yankees come to town. You did yourself a favor. You did them a big favor. Yeah. Be part of a winning franchise. Why wouldn't you want to, you know, if you have the ability to connect to come to Cleveland to go to a game or something like that, you know, especially when the Yankees come to town, they can go for cheap, they can go sit in the stadium and watch the game. I remember I sat the Indians are not that bad. The Indians is a great Sorry. Sorry. The the the Guardians, they're great. It's a great sports town. There's nothing to talk about. The Browns fans and you know this is a respect. But the funny thing is that the Indian fans like I hate the Yankees. like Yankee fans, we don't even know who you are, right? Boston and Houston. That's not right. We don't even know like it's okay, you know. Um but it's uh but the the Yankees as living the Yankees travel well. They come to when when the Yankees come to town, you know, everywhere progressive field is full. Yeah. every stadium across the country when the Yankees come to town, they fill up they fill up they fill up the seats people their main attraction and then when they're outside the hotels because I have a friend who went and uh to the to went down to the downtown hotel where the Yankees are, they're lining the streets there with people coming to get autographs and stuff, you know, hotel reviews. Yeah. Back to hotel reviews. I'm a believer that LinkedIn, you're not going to get business from LinkedIn unless you're an interior designer or your web designer that you can really showcase your work or your marketing work. What LinkedIn is really is really kind of promoting yourself. So that when you meet someone at a conference or you meet someone in a meeting, they know who you are and they know your personality and they want to determine that this is somebody that they want to do business with. You could sit there and and send messages to people. I do wound vax this that and the other can get a meeting. But the goal is kind of self-branding I think is the right word and people know who you are. Getting to the hotel reviews um I wasn't doing these sales tips for a while. I was at Ohio Healthc Care's they do two smaller conferences a year. Um, it was the fall conference and it's a lot of times in downtown Columbus, but this time they did it in Westerville, in the middle of nowhere, okay? Like a suburb of Columbus and it was in this Renaissance Hotel and it was brand new. It was good. And uh I come down the next day and there were a few vendors there, not as many vendors as like the big show. And I'm I'm talking to her and she says, "You know, this this hotel, you know, at the end of the day, it was a good hotel. It's an 8.1, you know." She's like, "What do you mean like like the pizza review?" I'm like, "Yeah, it was a good review." She's like, "You should go do a review, you know." And then she even named it. She said like, "You should call it one night instead of one bite, you know?" And I went upstairs, I clean quickly cleaned up, made my bed and everything. And I and I reviewed the the I reviewed the room and that was my first review and everyone said it's genius to the point that when I go to a conference, everyone's asked me, "So, new hotel? How's your hotel? You know, you know, what's the review?" Now, I had to go meet with somebody uh like in the Midwest, like in Kansas or something. And he was very dry on the phone the whole time setting up the meeting and he says, "So, you're going to get good hotel review, you know, at this thing." And I never spoke to him in the floor. And then you hear some lead in the back. He's the guy. He's coming to to to, you know, so it definitely does. The power of social media, the power of people connects us all no matter where we are in the world. And it's not just that. I I think we we say this a lot is uh we encourage all of our people to to build their own brand and you know if you're building your own brand that people learn to trust you and deal with you and want to be around your energy then it's good for you and it's good for us. So I want to review booths like before you know like before a trade show there's like an extra hour before the show is open only the vendors are allowed like I want to do walk down like one aisle of I'll do that with you. I like that idea. This is the booths are all pretty much the same. No, because you look for the chachkas. I want to see who has those cool like their promotional items. You know what I gave out last year at OCA? I gave out dude wipes. Dude wipes. Oo, that's a good one. It was great. I found them on Amazon for like $2 a piece once. I'm telling you, my office was loaded with boxes of this. It's very hard to I actually remember seeing the dude wipes episode on Shark Tank while it happened when it was brand right when they were coming for the first time. I watched the episode live. I was watching it live. I remember I remember watching and I thought to myself at the time, this is a crazy idea. They just took baby wipes and basically renamed it to dude wipes and you know it was all about the branding and their presentation and their story that they had a story as well and the sharks were were into it and I was very surprised and they got a deal and they they went on to be I think the top five most successful companies on on shark. They did like 400500 million dollars in sales maybe even more. Maybe they maybe even hit the billion dollar mark already. They maybe even hit their billion top. I know that the scrubby scrub daddy. Scrub Daddy that was up there. Scrub Daddy's up there. Yeah. Yeah. Um I love us. Bombas the sock company. Yeah. They became I remember that. Yeah. Bombas Daddy was number two is number two. Number three is Okay, we don't need all the detail. Squatty Potty. I don't remember that either. Kevin Oly always said something about the cats. You know, there was the DNA the DNA thing. Yes. Also, he made a lot of money. Yeah. He made a lot of money off. I have to just say this. Barbara gets me very nervous. Yeah. Okay. Just tipsy elves sales do not tipsy elves. Do uh just ask about dude. Just ask about dude wipes. Yeah. How many how many what's the revenue for dude wipes? You guys do training on chat GPT at all. We use chat GPT a lot. We basically um around a year ago our COO David Gnu he uh announced to the entire company. Yeah. He announced to the entire company uh congratulations 200 million assistant. Okay. Named chap GPT. and he encouraged all of us to use it and we all here use it every single day. That's good. That's why I start I started the episode with this because I'm a big fan. I think that people should just talk to it more. I agree. It can definitely you have to be very careful like I'm doing follow-ups from the LTC 100 conference and you know you draft together a crafty email. You could actually take like a picture of the guys from the cocktail book, put it into Chad GPT and say, "Do a deep dive into this company and and this person just like you did to me and actually um give me an email that's geared towards him." But you have to be very careful because you don't want that person reading the email saying, you know, this guy got it right off Chad GPT, right? Right. You know, you have to be like kind of find that balance. You look like a stalker or something. Stalker and stuff. You want to look like you did something. You have to always and don't make this look like Ch. Yeah. Yeah. Make it look Chat GPT has that very cool feature that can do a deep dive on people. That's what I'm saying. It takes five minutes. Like literally it take I don't know about five. It could take sometimes a few minutes. I think you got to pay a lot of money for that that one that uh but they uh you just the the cocktail book is from the show is in PDF. So you just kind of like cut it out and just drop it as a picture into it and and you know you can craft you know an email to it. So I've been doing that. So any of the, you know, emails that are going in if they're you know, I'm curious. You know, we have this our podcast in general has been about growth and um, you know, I'm you're a real you're a real important listener to us. I love your podcast. I think it's a perfect balance between, let's say, you have Naki Gordon's podcast and a lot of the other good ones, but sometimes you just need to like sit back and you can learn something from this podcast and you want to laugh a little bit. I think it's like a good balance. um you keep it, you know, you know, mature and it's, you know, I appreciate that. I think that the quality of our listeners is really good because we're hitting a demographic that we want. Uh you're literally in that demographic. I love it. Um so we we appreciate it. Do you have any feedback for us? Well, I I I think the lightning round is you know, you know, it was a little bit too like you're caught off guard like I you know, please don't say that because Oshi hated it and we shut it down and you're just giving him more ammo against But I but I but I think what you're doing then is great. Like I think the way it's evolved over the last few months is is is getting better and better. You know, I don't think there's anything you should change. I appreciate that. So, one of the things we added is because we're very growth oriented and uh you know, we like to get people on who have a story to tell, you know, where they're from, what they're currently doing, what the future is. One of the questions we like to ask our guests now is if you had a message for the world and you can, you know, put out a megaphone that everyone listens to you, what would that message be? Have you thought about that? I'm Absolutely. I think curious what you what your message would be. I I you know I think you know people throw around the terminology he's a nice guy too much. You know everyone say oh he's a nice guy. A nice guy means somebody who is nice to everyone no matter who they are not just their friends. Right? People should be nice to everyone. Whether it's a collector coming to your door, whether it's uh somebody in your community who's not super cool or you're not going to get anything out of them, is try to be nicer to people. Not just the people that you like, you know, whether it's your employees, whether and it's not somebody you want to do business with, but just in general, be a nice person to everybody else, you know, and give everyone the time of day. You know, people say, "Oh, out of town people are nicer. They have better manners." I don't know if it's true, right? And then there are people in the New York metropolitan area that they're just, "Oh, they're from New York. They're not nice. Not true. None of them are nice. But I'm saying is try to be nice to everyone. You know what this is reminding me of? This is such like very very profound what you're saying. It sounds simple. Sounds like be nice to everyone. Very message, right? Very cliche, very cheesy, right? But it goes it's very deep what you're saying if you really unpack it. And I heard a sermon this week from my rabbi and he really triggered for me what he was saying and uh I think that you know this really resonates with me. What he said was that is David Amelik, you know, King David who wrote the psalms, beautiful praise to God, Hashem, and he really did an amazing job and like it's it's uh very deep the words and uh a lot of it is rhymes and you know it's like a song almost like a song and no one has ever really matched like that writing. No one's ever matched it. There was however a king in Wuhan who was a I think from uh a Persian king I believe I could be wrong but very very big king. He ruled like half the world at some point and he was stumbled across a scenario where he realized that there was a god and he was very powerful and he was so amazed by it that he started praising him and there's a gamarra about this apparently and what happened was the the angels in the heavens were like what is going on over here this guy is praising he's praising God and it's so beautiful and and he's going to outdo melik psalms the the toll him he's going to outdo it so they quickly came down and they smacked him on the mouth. So they injured him. So this way he wouldn't be able to really continue but more importantly not that he wouldn't really be able to continue is that first we want to see you in pain. We want to see you suffer. Now let me see how you're singing the praises. Now let me see when times are tough when it's very difficult to do. Are you overcoming those challenges and still finding the good and still finding the positivity? That's the that's the challenge. David, King David went through a lot of trials and tribulations in his life. He had tremendous amount of difficulty. He had so many things that could have brought him down that you know to give up and he never did. And not only did he not give up, he wrote these beautiful songs. So that's what the challenge was with him. That's what they did. Was that this past weekend? This past week because I also learned about King David this past weekend. Did you? Yeah. But do you understand what I'm saying with what he's saying? Yes. I mean, what he's saying is it's being nice to your friends and to the people in your inner circle and that doesn't that doesn't make you a nice guy. And that's a lot of people are very nice to the people they care about. The question is what do you do to the guy that's annoying you? What do you do to the guy who is not really bringing much value to the table? And are you treating him as an equal or are you dismissing him or are you right? That is when you really need to step up and be that nice person. And being in this industry, you see who's the nice people. Oh yeah, absolutely. There are so many people operators that they're, you know, in a much bigger position than we are. They're very successful. They don't need us and they still treat people with the utmost respect with a lot of dignity and they're receptive. They're welcoming to anybody that you know sits down with them and you don't feel the aura of I'm not good enough to be in his presence. Like he doesn't make you feel that way. Then there are others that are very standoffish that are very st they're not even that successful but they just have this ego and they have this ears about them that it's it's a it's a big turnoff you know and you see the differences there they're people on both sides shows you know but it's funny you were at the ECAP conference and you're doing your podcast and you talk about how to approach certain people and you know and you kept mentioning something about oh they're too busy they're very busy people if you're at ECAP you're not that busy you know really like and you have your inner circle you're there to have fun and literally be in day camp for for 3 days, you know. Um so if you're going to go to a vendor and really kind of say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm busy." Backto back, the word backtoback meetings, you know, baloney. You know, you just don't want to talk to the person, right? You know, they're actually paying for you to be here, right? Um and and and that's kind of you know not I'm not saying the ECAP people are wonderful people and they put together a fantastic thing but some of the people when they're at the ECAP conference and they have their table at breakfast and they're like kind of have their posies around them and you know we don't have to sit there and defend those people and say they're very busy people. You're at ECAP you're there to actually um meet with people like you had that gentleman on um he had a beard uh you know uh took his kid to the private jets on the thing. Oh, Kheim Ziger. Kheim Ziger. And he said that he told his son, "You're here to meet some potential vendors." You know what? And and I wasn't a hip this year, but to hear that from someone saying, "Yeah, you're here to pe, you know, see people here." You know, that's that's kind of why you're there. People attend the people. You might learn something. Go talk to By the way, at specifically at ECAP, I just want to defend them a little bit. Well, I'm not saying that. The people at ECA are wonderful. No, no, I'm not saying ECAP. I'm saying the people, the operators. It happens to be when you're going to ECAP, your mindset is I want to do deals. I want to meet bankers. I want to meet the insurance. I want to really find other nursing homes that I could do deals with other operators. So, there's a lot of top of- mind, mega mega deals going on in people's minds. That being said, right, just want to add a little flavor and edit a little bit of what you said, you have to remember that US vendors are paying for your meaning during the day, okay, you're busy, you have those meetings, but when you're at breakfast and you're at a table or you're at dinner or you're quiet and you're walking, don't turn your back to people, right? Don't pull your phone out as the guys. Don't say I have backtoback. Say I have backtoback, but of course I'll make time for you, Mr. or Miss or Mrs. vendor that paid so much to be here who is giving me my grandiose dinner and my beautiful, you know, uh, spa in the night and yoga in the morning. That's the idea that I think is the message. And, um, I got to tell you, you know, I I'm a big Family Guy fan and they have this thing called, you know what grinds my gears? You know, you know, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. So, what really grinds my gears is when people say, "No, no, no, but deep down he's a nice guy." I really can't stand that. I I I I just can't I don't want to hear that deep down he's a nice guy. And I'm sure there's jokes that people say about deep down he only acts like an a-hole, but deep down he's a nice No, no, he he needs therapy. He has to go to help. He can't. So, when people say he's a great guy, I go like, "Yeah, he's all right." You know, right? And like and the person sits back sometimes and I don't not trying to say lush or anything. I'm like, "Yeah, he's he's okay." you know, and they kind of sometimes sit back and be like, you know what, you're right. He's all right. You know, cuz like the terminology, he's a great guy, a nice guy, I think is thrown around way too much. And the reason why it hurts is because then the guy thinks he's actually a nice guy. So, somebody needs to tell him, hey, you got to stop pushing people around and being negative and, you know, always saying that you have backtobacks. Like, that's the I I I don't think, for me at least, this might be a little controversial. And maybe there are very few people out there who will agree with me, but I think most people will not. That's unpopular. I don't aim to be a nice guy. I'm not Oh, I was literally about to say, "Oh, by the way, you were such a nice guy." Steph is getting to He gave him a mic and he's going all out. I got an upgraded mic. He's not even He's not even pacing himself. He's just coming out guns with those with his biggest weapons right away. So, I don't really like uh you know I my notoriety I don't care for it to be people other people saying, "Oh, you know that guy? knows you what a nice guy like I'm not aiming for that I don't know if I care for that right I don't want people to say I'm a terrible person or that that's fine but I'm a nice guy you know it could be a lot of other attributes as well that could define you that that is sort of your niche I think being a nice guy should be reserved for people who like there's a guy I remember growing up I remember growing up and he's a nice guy he was always doing stuff in the sh like he was the guy after kid cleaning up and you know like if you had a problem he would run over he's the first one to assist through. He's a nice guy. He's a really nice guy. He's pleasant. He's just is around. He wants everybody around him to be happy. Right. Right. It's just thrown around so loosely. I'm not a nice guy. Michael, you're a nice guy. You're a nice guy, Michael, because you really do a lot for the community and I don't have the patience that you have. I do not. You have so many people that line up to like, you know, tell you this and tell that. I'm done with it. I'm bored. I need to go. So, yeah. But most people are not nice people. Most people are not nice people. And the few that are, it's a really big uh it's you're diminishing the word when you just throw it around loosely and say, "Oh, he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy." No, no, they're not. All right. Let's talk about your brother for a second because I knew him for many years before he was one of the guests on here. Um, you know, David Greenfield, you know, you and him very different personalities, but deep down you guys actually have like a lot of similarities and stuff. I thought you were going to say deep down he's a nice guy, but but but on that nice guy thing, but let me tell you something about about about him. When I met him for the first time, I knew him for for for over 10 years. Um, and I'll get into this thing is that he came to Shul with my friend Manis Burkovichi um who's a good friend of his in Shul in the summer and most people went upstate, but there's like a core group of guys in the Shul in Brooklyn that that came by and he comes in there and my friend said, "This guy Michael Greenfield, you know, David Greenfield's here. He's a politician. He's a councilman. He's this guy and he comes over to me and he says, "What's your name?" I said, "My name is Aaron Luenstein." And then he asked me like, "So, what do you do?" So, I said, "I work at Ernston Young." I said, "What do you do?" And he was like, "Excuse me, what do you mean? What do we do?" I'm like, "I'm David Greenfield. I'm like the councilman. My pictures in the TED every week. Like, I'm I'm the guy and stuff." But and then our relationship kind of, you know, he threw him off a little bit. Like, throwing someone off. On that note, I I I'll give you guys a tip here. And for my listeners, and it's interesting, not when you're at a conference, when you meet somebody for the first time, right? If you're at a healthcare conference, you're there to know what they do for a living or whatever it is, ask them their name, where they're from, try to avoid asking them what they do for a living. Try to get to go know the guy's personality without asking them. So, new, what do you do? Right? Why do you have to go ahead and and and tight somebody up, you know? You know, sum them up based on what they do for a living, you know? And it's something that my friend taught a different friend of mine taught me is that you can actually like get to know somebody without running to know like oh I work in the health oh you know so I never ask people what they do you know when they when I meet them and if you ever try that with you know meeting new people it's fascinating sometimes people are actually edging to tell you what they do and you just like kind of like not even ask them when you ask someone like what are you doing you're at a work event you're at ECAP or Ohio Healthcare LT100 or whatever it is you're there to make money you got to know what they do like that that's something else you know but actually you I want to tie it's almost like code for so how can you serve me? How can you help me? You say what do you do? Let me see. Is there a way that we can Yeah. How can you interest me in this conversation? I want to tie the two of your uh points together and we're going to have to wrap. Sure. Um Oshi, you may not be a nice guy, right? But at the end of the day, we're not talking about that. We're not talking about what And you're a nice guy by the way, but you know, deep down I do nice things. No, no, I do some nice things. It doesn't make me a nice guy. The point of this conversation and the reason why I think it went a little left field is because it's not about being a nice guy. Yes, the guy in Shul who puts this farm away is a nice guy. We're not talking about that. I want to This is the hottest topic for me by the way. Uh, you know, psychological evaluation of people. I love it. I do this all day long. Speak to people, meet people, evaluate them. I don't read books. I read people. That's literally what I do all day. I don't either read. So, u Thank you for that. What I think the message here and I think that uh what we're trying to talk about and I think that uh what you should I hope accept is the normaly for everyone is to be nice to strangers to be nice to others. It's not about you being the nice guy. I don't care if you're a nice guy or not a nice guy. I care how you treat me when I meet you. That's what we're talking about here. Give example and going back to I'm sorry for one second. Going back to what you said a minute ago. I literally spoke about this last night because and this is a hot topic of mine also. How do you tell how do you how do you introduce a person? How do you say hello to somebody? Like ask your friend, and I have a way, but I'd love to ask you this question. What do you say when you meet someone? How do you get to know them? You just started meeting them. What's your go-to question to engage in a conversation of getting to know them other than what do you do? So, please, I'd love to hear it just for me. You have you have to come up with a question that you ask somebody so that you can invite people from how you get there, right? How'd you get there? Yeah, that's great. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense what you're saying. You're talking about just being nice to others. I know, but that isn't the re the true definition of the of the the phrase he's a nice guy. When he meets strangers, he gives them a little bit of attention. That's it. Inclusive. You go in and sh in a kiddish, let's say, right? And you have your two friends and you know over the podcast I learned about your sh sounds awesome, right? But but what I'll tell you is is that you have that one other guy who's trying to fit in who who you don't play baseball with and he doesn't he's not a Yankee fan, he's a Met fan and he sits down and he tries to sit on the other side of you. You're not facing your two core friends that you that you just saw on Friday afternoon. You actually can gauge, hey David, how are you today? How was your week? You know what's going on? What you doing for, you know, mid-inter? What's going on? And stuff. Talk to that guy. He literally he could be a janitor, head maintenance guy in in yeshiva, but be be nice to that person also, you know, and and when your friends see that, you know, it'll rub off on them. What a message. You know, I think I think that's really important. I think, you know, I really like that. And I'll tell you, I my father's like that and, you know, and that's where, you know, where I got it. You know, I want to tell you what I tell people when I first meet them, and you guys can use and adapt any one of these varieties of ways of of dis of uh communicating with people when you first meet with them, is, hey, what's top of your mind? How's your day going? How was your week? Is actually what I always ask. That's fantastic. That's the way I start with every conversation. How was your week? Yeah. And people look at me sometimes like, "What? You don't know me. What do you ask me? How was your week? What what's top of your mind?" I think that's a great way to start engaging in conversations with people you don't know. The idea of inclusiveness is an amazing message. Aaron, thank you so much for being here. Before we let you go, you know, we can't let you go without asking you who your potential guest is that you would invite to sit in this chair. I I would love to see you tank in the seat. Do you know him? I agree. Michael, you know, you know him very well. Call him and ask him. I've asked him a few times to come on and he said he would, but he just never on the other. All right. So, you'll call him and ask him for us. I will call him. I will ask him. All right. I think he's hilarious. I agree. And you know what? He speaks the truth. Yes. Let's get him on. Guys, thank you so much for listening, liking, subscribing, commenting, getting involved, growing with us, hearing us out, being part of our community, part of our lives. We really appreciate it. Thank you, Aaron, for being on our program. Have a great week, everybody. That's a rap big care. That's a wrap.