How Popinsanity Popcorn Became a Global Sensation

Like, this is insane. This is crazy. This is insane. Uh-huh. Insane insanity pop insanity Pop ins- pop insanity. Pop insanity. Yankee called a lawyer, see if we could trademark that name. And that was a process, and then we got a trademark, and then we got it registered. And now I'm sitting with you guys with a company called Pop Insanity. None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business Podcast, hosted by Michael and Oshi. Welcome back, everybody, to another amazing episode of the None of Your Business Podcast. Don't forget to like, subscribe, comment, get involved. We love hearing your feedback. Today, we are joined by my good friend Ravaryn Zuttler from Pop Insanity. Did I say it correctly? You absolutely did. Okay, great. You know, I just want to tell you something that paying so much money for popcorn I thought was insanity. But once you get the popcorn and you realize that it's not only just a item that you eat as a snack, it's a gift. It's something that you can give to feel good. Something that you can give to console someone, right? You want to make them feel good about, you know, their loss or something. You know, just grab a popcorn that has s'mores and cookies and everything else in it, and we'll get into the all those discussions in a couple of minutes. We do have a new sponsor with us that's been sponsoring our podcast recently, and that's the Serenity Center. And maybe we'll take another commercial break later, and we'll talk about it because I thought that did really, really well. So, thank you to the good folks at Serenity Center in Rockland County providing therapy services to the local community and beyond, which is an amazing thing. And I have to mention, thank you to our marketing team, and specifically Kim, who got us these beautiful None of Your Business mugs. L'chaim. Beautiful. L'chaim, guys. L'chaim, l'chaim, l'chaim. Beautiful. These are beautiful mugs. Soon, they're going to be on sale for $19.99. Buy one, get one free. All right. Cheers, guys. Um the first time I met you, it was a Saturday night, and my friends told me about this amazing, amazing gig that's going on in Manhattan. And I have to go before Yom Kippur to hear Yuhuda Green. And he is going to bring in Yom Kippur like no one has ever done before. And it's going to be a level that you've never reached in your life, is what my friends told me over a decade ago. And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" It's Erev Yom Kippur. I'm supposed to be crying. I'm supposed to be, you know, mourning. And I'm supposed to be feeling sad. You want to take me to a gig? An entertainment? Something in Manhattan? Oh, it's in Manhattan? I'm in, right? That's what I said. I go to Manhattan, and I go to this crowd, and there's a huge, huge, huge, beautiful, holy crowd in this, you know, stuffing into a magnificent, by the way, synagogue in in Manhattan. And we're there, and suddenly Yuhuda Green gets up with his tallis, and he starts to sing. And there's an older gentleman there who's just rocking away with his guitar. And I got attracted to it immediately. And I I love music, and I just started getting closer and closer. And the entire time I sat next to you, and I prayed, and I davened. Yeah, you didn't even notice that I was there cuz you were in your zone. Over a decade ago. Really? Yeah. And I have to tell you that you didn't know me then. And you hardly know me now, and that's okay. We're going to get to know each other today, but I was inspired by your your the beauty of how you connected. And you were very in tune, pun intended, with the singer. A lot of times, you see a musician who's going to, you know, goes with a singer, and he's, you know, a little bit off on it. What I noticed about you that evening, and what really helped me connect and pray and, you know, connect and get ready for the holiest day of our year, is that you were very, very in line with the singer. Yuhuda Green was singing, and it's not easy to keep up with him with his ups and downs and his lefts and his rights. And you did it, and it really inspired me, and I just want to thank you for that. I really, really want to get into it and understand Thank you. And I want to understand that background. And of course, you know, as the CEO, owner, founder of Pop Insanity, we have a lot to get into. Oshi, you've heard of Pop Insanity before, I'm sure. Well, is that a question or a statement? I feel everybody's heard of Pop Insanity. I mean, you're living under a rock if you haven't seen it, um tasted it. What's your favorite one, by the way? Is it uh They're all my favorite. I love it's like a guilty pleasure. I I'm sorry, but I try to stay away from it because I try to watch my calorie count. But um the caramel has to be up there. Uh it's delicious. that recipe was 2 and 1/2 years in the making. And then make it parve. What? Yeah. What does that mean, 2 and 1/2 years to make a recipe? Trial and error. This could be better. Let's Let's try it. Could a little bit better. Let's try this. Let's try that. I have great partners, and they really, really strive for excellence. Well, I appreciate the s'mores one, so thank you for that. They're all good. They're all delicious. Do you have like a store front also where you sell them, or is everything through distribution? did uh have a small place in front of our original um factory on right here in Monsey. Uh is it on 59? Uh you know, right near right near I passed it. I passed it a lot. I I always see it with their in the background, Pop Insanity. So, that's your factory? That's where you make Not anymore. Uh that's where we started in a small 800 sq ft place, and then we were busting out, and we were having people label things in the back on table. It was a disaster, but we got it done. We never did not ship an order. And then the landlord, I told the landlord, "If anybody vacates, just give me the space." So, I took from one space to two spaces to three spaces, and then we were here We were there for 8 years, and another thing that I don't even have to describe. It was like mamas such siyata dishmaya. I'm now in a 12 thousand sq ft facility, which I get emotional when I think about it because when me and my partners were sitting there putting the stuff together on a napkin, I never thought that it would evolve into what baruch Hashem it has evolved. But yeah, we moved to New Jersey. We have our offices in Monsey, so we can come and go with not too much of a commute because we put a lot of hours in. So is my partners and employees in New Jersey. But yeah, it's it's been quite a ride. Wow. When did you decide I want to be the popcorn king? I want to get into this. Like, what was that moment? When did this happen? So, it didn't really happen like that. It really happened because it's a story. So, I don't know what what your guys' schedule is here because That's what we're here for. Is this the Is this the quick answer thing, or is this the You know, Oshi and I have a thing that we like to say to each other. very, very good question, and it's even it's a bigger answer. I I want to tell you Oshi I Oshi and I have a rule of thumb is that we just we like to listen. We do like to talk a lot. That's for sure. But we really enjoy what we're doing here. So, it's like if we're asking for the story, we want to hear the story. We're sitting back, and we're enjoying it. the way, I think it's very important that you do share that and tell us how this all began, and we want to talk about your journey because people that are listening, you know, everybody's got a big idea, but it's hard to execute on them. And people always think, "It's just an idea. I'm not ever really going to do it." This was an idea that someone must have had at some point, and went and did it. And look what it became. Like you said, it evolved into something in your wildest imagination. Yeah. And to that point, we like to get into the pain of it. Where it starts. What happened? What was the trials? What were the challenges? How long did it take you to make money? Like, you know, did you have to borrow money to make it happen? this start? How did this happen? How did this come to be? Okay. So, the backstory is uh very interestingly, my whole professional life since I got out of yeshiva was I worked for um Syrian-owned companies. And we sold electronics, and I sold, you know, keyboards, mice, webcams, iPod accessories, all that stuff to big box retailers, whether it was OfficeMax or Staples or whatever it was. And fast-forward, on the side, I also played music. So, at the same time, my company was sold by my my employers sold the company to a hedge fund or whatever. And we all had the choice to stay or to go. And the decision was made that I was going to move on and do something else. Actually, my boss My previous bosses also left, and they were anyway. Guy comes over to me. He says, "You know, a third musician in the band." Because I was playing drums and keyboard at the time. But the guy comes over to me, and he says, "You know, Aaron, with your, you know, the experience that you've had over the years, maybe you could help Yankee." I said, "Yankee who?" "Yankee Golden Pop." He's got this pop You never tasted his popcorn?" I said, "No, what are you talking about?" "Aaron, do me a favor. Let me set up a meeting. And see see if you could help him because, you know, he's great in the kitchen. I don't know that he has business skills or anything like that." Okay. We sit down. He comes. Stuff. I don't necessarily love popcorn. It's not like the first thing I'm But it was interesting, you know. It was just like in regular bags or whatever. He had a little cute little label he put on or whatever. And I'm eating it, and I'm saying, "Wow, this is pretty cool." And he says, "Parve, yeah?" I had you do this. And I'm asking him a couple questions, and I said, "Okay, you know what? I'm going to try. I have a network of people, and you know, maybe I can you know, help him out." Love this guy. Sweetest guy in the world. Played gigs for years and years and years. I had no idea he was a foodie or a chef or any of his cooking and and food quality, you know, foodie qualities. And okay. So, I take a couple of bags. I'm showing it to this guy. I'm showing it to this guy. They're inhaling bags. They're like, "Aaron, where'd do you got this? I said it's a long story. Doing guy in the basement is that All right, I think you should you know put your hands around this and try to figure out because I've never really tasted anything like this and it's part of it's you know for for weddings and for Yom Tov and you know it's it's a night it could be an item. So I start to try to go to here and there. Again, I was just trying to help him launch a little thing he was working on in his basement. I said to Yanky Yanky, where did the popcorn stuff like what are you doing with popcorn? He says well me and my brother came moved here from Florida and he's a great he's a baker trained baker and you know I do my thing. We were going to open up a cafe in Monsey kind of like across the street from Evergreen a little thing there. He was going to make and a long story short without getting into the details 3 days before grand opening he couldn't open. Building condemned I I don't know. There was a there was a problem out of his control and he was freaking out because he's putting his life savings into this little cute little cafe he's making. Calls up his lawyer his lawyer says, Yanky I'm talking to you as a friend now. Take everything out and don't have judgments against you. Try to return everything. You know you don't have all the money in the world to just oh this didn't work. Let me try the next thing. Return everything. Get your money back. Makes a deal with the oven guy the refrigerator the soda machine the griddle everything. The one guy who said I'm sorry final sale ain't taking it back is the guy he bought a little popcorn machine from. Wow. This popcorn machine was in his dining room in a box for 9 months. Yanky am I right? 9 months? His wife said, Yanky out with the popcorn machine. The kids have no room to play. You know it's not fair. Like just get yeah but he says you know what we're making a little party for his young daughter before his wife said okay before it goes to the curb you can play with the popcorn and whatever. So party comes popcorn whatever and he sees the had a cotton candy guy there you know pouring looking thing. Yanky's what is that? He says no it's color it's sugar it's just can I have some of that? Just and he starts cuz Yanky understands. And he starts making flavors you got pink purple popcorn coming out of machine is popping popping his wife says what do we do with all this popcorn? Give me some garbage bags we'll put it give it to the kids. As the kids go home they're going to little baggies Yeah do give out the kids. No problem. Party's done this is on a Sunday everything's gorgeous. By the way Jake guess what my daughter was at that party. What? My daughter went to it was in the same class as Hava Golden Thaler. Wow. Look at that. Wow. At the first party How many years ago is this? I want to say I think it was 2012 or 2011 something like that. So like 13 years ago wow. This is on a this is on a a Sunday not a Friday. He gets calls. Yeah Mrs. Golden Thaler where did you buy the popcorn? She goes oh god it's a sore subject my husband hates it. This popcorn is chasing me. Don't get very just I'll give you 20 bucks. Just just send me the popcorn. My kids my husband fighting with this thing whatever. He comes over to Yanky. Yanky I need you to make popcorn for the kids. He's comes home from a mitzvah dance every night at 3:00 in the morning. Popcorn is not on his first list of things to do. You can't you can't upset Hava Miriam. Like you you can't starts making the popcorn and and now he tells me he was once coming he came home from I think he told me it was a concert with Avraham Fried and he had like a second wind couldn't sleep whatever. He decides go up to the kitchen. Marshmallow fluff nuts popcorn you know cookies and he starts playing in the basement and he makes about five or seven I don't remember the number 9 by 13 pans of different flavors. His wife comes down she works for the one of the state schools. He says, you know what I was just playing around with different things maybe bring this to the school put it in the teachers lounge. Let's see what happens just curious. She comes home with a list of orders like the boy scout cookies. We got to make this popcorn for the teachers. He says I'm not making he says you're not going to embarrass me now for the teachers. You got to make the popcorn. Makes the popcorn. 2 weeks later gets a call from the principal of a school of 450 kids. Yeah uh Jacob I I I hear that you make really good popcorn. So we're doing a fundraiser for the school. This guy doesn't have a label he doesn't have a name he doesn't have anything. He's making popcorn. So we we push fast forward and you know he started to bring the popcorn to the gigs and he would make in his little machine and this and that. So that's when this other musician found you know he was eating his popcorn but he's not really doing anything to you know so God put me in a position where I could just try to help and see what I could do and introduce it to the people and as I got I'm like every every I realized as a salesman when you go into pitch something even if you have and I did have I had branded keyboards and mice. When I say branded I'm talking about it back in the day we had a license for Compaq IBM we were distributor for HP. You think you're going into OfficeMax Office Depot and you're going to say hey I have HP branded keyboards and mice or or or or IBM whatever. You think it's a slam dunk. You're like oh my god wow. I had to sell my soul to get that stuff in there because of the way it worked you have to buy shelf space and it's complicated. When I was just giving this popcorn to people the rise and the you they didn't have to say anything. You just saw their face like They immediately loved it. The sales pitch was done I didn't open my mouth. I got to think about that. And basically I I try to help him more and more and before I knew it I was knee deep. I was like knee I was spending I was in Brooklyn I lived in Brooklyn driving 2 hours every day back forth and to pass push fast forward a little bit more we said, you know what I went over to my previous bosses who can I know are very very affluent and very smart. And I said to them I got this idea I want to do popcorn and whatever. He goes, Aaron you want to sell a bag of popcorn for 10 dollars? You're you're you're nuts. But I know one thing you worked for me for a long time. I know what your I know what your talents are. How much do you need? I went over to this guy and I said to him well I need $10,000. He says to me here's 20 grand. Pay me back when you have the money. I don't care if you don't make money and now forget he told me this. This is coming from somebody who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't care if you don't make money. Just prove to me it's a concept. We'll figure out how to make money on the back end we'll work it we'll we'll we'll reverse engineer it. So that's what we started to do but we had to find a place to do this. And I couldn't you know like rent I mean 800 square foot store you have two salaries. How how am I making money? My idea was to go out raise money bring in like a you know half a million dollars a million dollars there's money for salaries there's money for machines and you know start a business. Everyone thought I literally they liked the popcorn they asked for another bag before I left or threw me out but they weren't investing money. So I said, you know what Yanky bottom line is you have a great product. I think we could really work well together but nobody wants to do my plan which is to invest you know get an investor and launch a company. So we have a choice. Either we could just move on play gigs together munch on some popcorn or we can go for broke. He says, well what do you mean by that? Well we could take a small a small spot prove the concept and then hopefully that will be a launch pad into what I want to do. Where are we going to do this? I said, you know Monsey I don't. So we start circling we find the place which is my current place now and it was a yogurt store that went out of business or he moved or whatever it was. And I walk in I said this is perfect. We don't have to do build out the grease traps are there the ovens are there the powers there the sinks are there like it's not a dentist office where I have to back forth the guy once rented couldn't afford the rent but I went to visit the place five times. Finally and I'll say his name Mike Rosenbloom. He said to me, guys you've been here five times. What are we doing? I said I love this place. I really want to start my business here. But I can't afford the rent. What could you afford? And I don't even remember the numbers. I gave him some number that I thought he would literally say okay do me a favor you guys are nice not going to happen. He says to me, Aaron Jacob deal. Go after your dream. I'm going to give you 2 months free rent. Go after your dream. Here's the keys. Wow. signed a lease. Wow. Did you know this guy from before? You met him then? He must have tasted the popcorn. Yeah, we probably did. But this was it was just we it was I'm telling you it was it was out of the schmear. What a guy. You know, I I got to pause for a minute. I'm fascinated by your story and you said that like you know your your previous bosses brought you in and they know your talents. What are your talents? I I don't know you that well, but it obviously you can sell, you can market. What what was your core that you knew that you could take this to the next level? What was that? I didn't know I could take it to the next level. I did know that I had 20 years of experience of hanging out with the big boys. Meaning I wasn't just working in a pizza shop or a grocery store. I was I flew all around the United States about parts of the world also with my bosses who I was just who I built really very nice relationships, pretty close with close till this day. And it's interesting because I was a sales guy. And as I as I got trained and as I did more and more they put gave me more responsibility. But I was in meetings or he would ask me to come to meetings that had nothing to do with what I do. And I never understood it like why do I need to talk be here and while you go over numbers or inventory. Half the stuff I barely understood but I started to learn it. Little did I know that that those meetings that I sat in on would help me not only be a salesman for a company but to run a company. I understood taxes, I understood accounting, cost of goods, planning margins. There was so many things Very cool. I was able to learn. So from sales to operations and the whole gamut. Right. So so in the the the short answer to your question I think is I've always been blessed with a people's person kind of personality. I've always cuz I've met with and dealt with lots of interesting personalities. Um and I've always been able to navigate through them or with them. There's I I pride myself on the fact that there there hasn't been a bridge that I burned. If there's something between us I'll fix it or we'll talk about it or there'll become Or I'll give you some popcorn and you'll forget it. So so that's it's I like it it's it's people's person, it's sales and then like you say went to operations and and and other things and I'm also I don't know if you know I'm the smartest guy in the world. I know exactly what I don't know. And when I don't know something I ask, I hire I contract out. The right way to do things. And I I I ask for help and you know and advice. So I'm not afraid to many times I get on the phone listen I'm if you you know with whether it's machines or workmen's comp or whatever it is. Yeah. Say by the way you're talking to an idiot in this area so start from the beginning. They go no no no it's okay it's and they and no question is off the off the table. When you claim to know everything isn't that they expect you they start talking so the CVP is like this the HOR is like this. You don't know what he's talking about. Yeah. So I try to be very forthcoming and open and honest what where my strengths are and where they're not. And we tried to you know Let me get back to your story before Michael rudely interrupted you with with another question but like we're literally at the crux of his story. Which one was that? When you're in the store you're just getting if you're getting the rent for free and the guy's like I'll give you two months for free just go after your dream. Like that's where you're up to exactly right there. So now we have this place and we got to get machines, we got to buy ingredients, we got to buy all these things to you know to to start. So we need a hashgacha. Who are we getting a hashgacha? Big O U where do I start? Dial 1-800-O U like what are we doing here? So I do what I always do. I go speak to my rabbis. And one of the rabbis that I was not very close to but had a really good relationship with was somebody in hashgacha and he told me Aaron come to my house tell me what you want to do, I'm going to guide you. Long story short we had a plan made some phone calls for me. I went there and of course it was a fantastic meeting with the I went to the O U. And they have like a headquarters the O U like this? A great team of people and you know I was just starting. I didn't have no investor. I didn't it was like credit card borrow from Yunkel to pay my show and my show's bill is then you go to Yechiel. That's the way I ran the business. It was pay pay Peter to Robin pay Peter. Thank you. So now O U says listen they give me this number and I said I really you know what when we are able to I'm going to come back because I really I believe O U is my customer and cuz I want to be national and whoa whoa whoa whoa where you going? Sit down. Let me tell you something. We just spoke here for an hour. I see the interaction between two partners. The the passion and respect that you have for each other and and you're really determined. They made it worthwhile for us. I don't remember if it was payment plans. They worked with me with something that can work and now I boom now I have O U. Now I need design. I can't afford designer. What am I doing? So my previous life I worked with lots of people when it was an 80 million dollar company that I was working for. I said well I call up the guy. I said listen I need some design this and that. What is it called? What what do you typically charge for that? He tells me I go okay I'll I'll go on them those days there was no Fiverr or Upwork or anything like that. I'll figure it out. He goes Aaron what do you need? Just tell me what you need. This that the other. He said don't worry about it. I'll design it. When you have the money you pay for. Why is everybody being so nice to you? Like what is it like like how are you getting all of this done? Everybody's like we just want to help you. We just want to help you. Don't pay us. It's okay. Pay us whenever you have money. You don't have to pay us now. Like are you Mother Teresa or something that people everybody just wants a piece of you? The popcorn is really really good as you So are you giving people the popcorn along the way so they're seeing I I I'll tell you I'll tell you what it is. I I I It's not like he has a drug. He's like he slips the drug under the table. Taste this. Like I said I'm a people's person and Yanky is very very well liked and we're just two guys trying to launch something that we hope to make a parnassa with. And you played music together or right? You were in a band together? Yanky's a fantastic keyboard player. Played thousands of weddings, traveled with the biggest singers, very very talented both on stage and in the kitchen. So now this designer is also on on board here and is also helping out and he's doing his part. Nobody's asking you for any equity along the way. Everybody's just like you know how No the people who I don't know what they That's a great great question by the way. The people who who asked me for equity so when I started again I didn't have the money to really you know we oh by the way credit where credit is due when the landlord said go after your dream I go that's really nice now I got to figure out how I'm paying for rent. And Yanky's father-in-law said guys here's six months rent or I don't remember the number six months rent. Enough. You guys are dancing for a year putting your blood sweat and tears into this. I'll take care of I need you to concentrate on the business not on the money. And because of and Mike's help and so many people along the way we started and like I said literally when we credit card bills would do and I needed to pay I had orders that I couldn't I didn't have money for the ingredients. So it was just it was and people think you know wow you're buying your second yacht. Really? How about not taking a salary for the first three or four I don't want to I don't know exactly but multiple years I did not take a salary. I'm not embarrassed to say it. I borrowed money literally to get by those couple of years. And by the way the Bonnie Sholom has a sense of humor because during that time he sent me two beautiful son-in-law and daughter-in-law where I had to pay for the two weddings, support the seminary, no job, no income. I'm saying my wife has her thing going on and I played a little bit of music but that doesn't cover what what it was and I'll just interrupt here for a second because people say well how about Pop and Sandy? The people who deserve the most credit are our wives. And I don't mean to pull out the violins. I mean it for a very serious reason. They could have said Aaron I know what you were doing before you did this. I know you know how things went and what you made and what you and Yanky you had a sound company and you were playing in this and that. Do the popcorn on the weekend. Yeah. Get a job. hobby. You got to get responsibilities. Get a job. They never said that to us. They never said that to us. They saw our passion and we put in the hours. It's not like we were waiting for something to land. Although along the way lots of things landed. There are things that happened in this company that I cannot explain. My key people land met my biggest Yankee Vershovsky who handles a lot of my marketing and so much. I don't even know how many hats he he he wears. We found him in 7-Eleven. Literally found him in 7-Eleven. I have my my operations manager who runs my whole facility Chaim Goldberg. He was driving He was in between jobs, whatever. He met him Yankee met him somewhere. He just liked him. Boom man, I want you to meet my partner. Hire him on the spot. People came from different places and scenarios. I'm telling you I I there's no other way to uh describe it than than it was a bracha from the Rebbe Shlita because any ad that I posted I wouldn't find the personality and the passion and they they would all take bullets for me and I would do the same for them with family. So basically coming back and making a circle. So now I put all these things in place. We have the hashgacha. I got the designer. We buy machines. I got to buy borrow money for the machines. Took care of that. Now we have machines. Now we're cooking making popcorn and Okay, we got old. I'll never forget we had a wall full of popcorn. I go okay now where where we selling this? Like what do we do what do we do? What was the objective in the beginning? To sell it to distribution or to go directly to the consumer? What was your Directly to stores. It was never distribution. That was the end game. to retail. Go to retail. Go to to the supermarkets that we all know of and a website. So direct to consumer on a website as well. Right. But I said, you know what? Where's the low-hanging fruit? Yankee, you and I played shows for so many years. We know every caterer in the in the metro area. Let me call up this guy, that guy, whatever. Call him up. He says I said you have a few minutes I want I got an item I want to show you. He goes Iron, you're a drama. I I've seen you here a thousand times. What are you talking about? No, no, no. I got a popcorn. He says popcorn? What do Iron, do me a favor. Call me back at night. I said I know you 15 years. Could you give me 15 minutes of your time? He goes Iron, absolutely. I go in there. Show him the popcorn. Oh, this is good. What's the house Oh, you parve? Oh, good. Okay. How much is it? I said it's $18 for a little thing. Are you sick? I'll never forget it. He said in there like the Iron, are you crazy? It's popcorn. It's a lot of money. Popcorn. I do weddings. I do bar hall. And he's eating eating. I said to him he says wait crazy? He says yeah. You crazy? No, you can't make this I Yeah. I said is it good? He says it's so good. Yes, this is this is like crack. Like this is crazy. He says you know what? I said you know what? Why don't you try it? And if it doesn't work lose my number. We'll just be friends. We'll see each other at simchas. He goes Do me a favor. He called somebody in with his book of parties. And he goes okay. Boom boom boom. Give me six tubs of for the next eight parties. Six tubs of I leave you I said Yankee, I got an order. He says I can't make that cuz we I can't make that by myself. I said I'm coming to tell your wife she you're not you're coming home real late tonight. I'm in Five Towns. I'm coming to Monsey now. I'm going to help you make it. Now with me making chocolate all over the walls, whatever. I should stick to sales and marketing. And he should stick to cooking. Yeah. The end of the day we it was just me and him. Making it All hands on deck. Everybody everybody's let's go. Let's go. Make it, bag it, package it. He'd help me load it into my car. Then next day I'd leave. Sometimes I would sleep in his basement because we got done working 12 1:00 in the morning. I'd sleep in his basement. In the morning I'd go start delivering and peddling the stuff and for a long time I did all the deliveries. You know, and basically that's kind of how it started because we the low-hanging fruit was the um was the simcha halls and people started to have it by simchas and then they would go into a store and say excuse me, do you have Popinsanity popcorn? They go pop a what? No, no. It's chocolate covered They had no idea. If you get me a number I'll I'll try to you know and in time all the stores popular What was the first big splashy order? What was that first kind of signature moment that you realized oh wow like people start people know who I am. Was it a big like you know Evergreen chain or I don't know some any other grocery chain or So I I don't want to mention name because they're going to say Iron, don't you remember it was me? I I don't want to Exactly. You don't want to insult anybody. But but it was it was probably you know the two chains that have like five stores each. So once they put into their stores it started gaining real popularity. were guys like like who started out there's there's a a guy in Lakewood called Confection Collection at Satmar guy had a little nut store. Somebody introduced us to to to him. He was my first store in Lakewood. This guy it was after I understand It's one store in Lakewood. The buzz is out there. So everyone's coming to his store. Uh So he was running out of stuff. He literally Iron, you have stuff? I'm sending a car service from Lakewood. That's the way it was. I need tonight. Now then it was the Nuttery. I have a card of thanks to give to these people because they they they really embraced my brand and really It it was the right fit for them. It was something you know decadent and you know candy yeah. But you know what? It was we built relationships and I have a tremendous hakaras hatov to those people and I don't mean to leave out any other names that I'm not thinking about now but they were tremendous. There was a tremendous amount of of not only the fact that it was like you say it was a high-end item. They wanted it for the stores but they I don't know how to explain they they really took a liking from placement in the stores. You know, when one of the big stores called me he says, you know, I'd like to buy your stuff. And I said well I I I'm not ready I'm not ready to sell you. I that comes off very pompous. Excuse me? I said and this was in the beginning and you know, I I said I heard that the grocery business you know, I I have to hold it you pay in 60 90 120 days this and that. I I can't do that. I'm I'm I'm dying to sell you and then not only that it would be an honor for my stuff to be in your store. I physically I can't do it. He says really? He says you know what? Um Could could you could you come down to my store talk to me? Would would you do that? Like he was a little bit attitude style. I said of course. I come there of course with samples. He's like He goes how about if I pay you COD? How about it? Oh, that works. He says yeah but but we're going to have another problem. He's He says what are you what are you talking about? I said where are you going to put it? He says what do you It's my store. What do you care about where I put it? I said because if you're going to put it on top of the marinara sauce underneath the Twizzlers a bag of popcorn for 12 $13 not going to sell. Right. He says well, where do you want to put it? I said you want to go downstairs? Let's do I'll show you where I want to put it. Come downstairs. Walk into the store. This is a big store. I said okay. Walk in here. Meats here. Fruits here. Right here. Right when you walk in put a rack here. He says people going to trip over it. I mean and that's prime real estate. I I Look how much stuff here. Everybody wants that spot. Yeah. Yeah. I said I know. Why we can't do business right now. So when we could figure out because honestly you're going to return it and I wasn't being playing I wasn't playing you know, hard to get. It's just Yeah. I knew the thing you're going to return it and it's not selling very savvy of you. You can't put your popcorn right next to the regular popcorn. You need to see the popcorn for $1.99 a bag or not even less and then you see yours for $12.99 $8.99 I I I don't want a headache. It's got to have its own little showing its own little showcase. By the way, I was in Evergreen recently and I saw the Popinsanity popcorn. I see it a lot but I noticed in Evergreen it's right there in the front. It's like prime real estate. Like people are walking by all day you know, by the cashiers. You can't miss it. Like everybody sees it. So you're really But the funny thing was And and we can kind of circle back here. Funny thing was he goes we're going to put it here. I said yeah. He says we're going to try it for two weeks. If it doesn't work, you know, uh I then I put it where I want. Okay. You want to come around and do blah blah blah. Can we put a put a rack here? He says you already put a rack here. He said okay. So now can we can we sell the product? He I said yeah. He says well, when can I have it here? 4 minutes. He says what are you talking about? I always go when I do a sales call full rack full first load in in my car because if the deal happens You ready? You want to be there ready. I'm there. Yeah. Hm. Smart. So He says really? 4 minutes? Me and Yankee are running through this store with wagons. Pull it in. We're starting to put it up. People are starting The guy says no, you can't take it. It's not scanned in the system or thing or whatever. They got to put the barcode on it. And then store by store by store. Wow. But one thing I must mention before you go on and that's very important. I have another partner. A third partner? three people. It's myself and Yankee started the company and a little bit later on a guy by the name of Yitz Joseph joined us. And Yitz has been also fell from the sky. How do I find Yitz? A guy who has 30 years experience in manufacturing internationally when forecasting numbers, stuff that you know, I I I could touch upon but that I don't well. And I got got to one of my little snags and I said to my call up my rabbi in Israel and I said, well, this is in the beginning, you know. I said, but what am I doing? I got this You want to scale it. I want to go to the next level. He goes, Aaron, and he doesn't come to America often. He says, I'm coming to America. I said, great. He says, I will come. I have a wedding in Monsey. I'm going to come to you 2 hours before the wedding. We're going to talk. Don't worry about it. Comes to the thing. Talking talking talking. He starts asking Well, I knew him for he as a baal teshuvah, someone who I ask How do you say? Advice A mentor. A mentor, someone who I learn from. 2 hours, I never saw him talk about How does this machine work? How does that What does this do? How much is this? What's the difference between retail margin and wholesale mar like Is this the same? I said, okay, at the end of the game I said, Rabbi, what do you say? Do I have a business here? He says, Aaron, you have a business. You have You have a very very good opportunity. I said, okay, so what's the issue now? And I told him. He says, I'll trachten. I'll think about it. Think about it. I got things to do. He says, you know what? Come to me by the wedding later on tonight. I'll have an answer for you. I come to the wedding. I got to think about it. Okay. Next morning Yitzchok Joseph walks into my office. Now, mind you, when the rov was here the night before Yitz always drives him around. Whatever the rabbi needs, my this Yitz is And I went to you We went to yeshiva together. So, my my my partner. We went to yeshiva together 35 years ago, but I had no idea we you know, see him by a simcha, mazel tov, whatever, but I had no idea of his business experience. He walks into the to the door and he says, okay, so um I'm here. The rabbi sent me. What what what's going on? We sat for 4 What is this? And how does this work? And what's this? And and And he started to really Break things down. be involved and help us. And he doesn't like when I talk about him, so I'm going to stop here and the bottom line is we each have very different personalities. We each have very different talents and we don't always agree on everything, but one thing we do. We always come to a bottom line respectfully. Like, Aaron, you're out of your mind, but I but I I I let's go for it. How much is it go Let's go for it. Or, Yitz, it makes no sense why we do this. Yitz, let's go for it. We give each other each other's room and sometimes Yanky comes up with a crazy flavor. Really? I don't know. Yanky, do it. I'll sell it. Let's try. I read somewhere that you ended up on Oprah. And I you know, I I've heard about this story before, but I just want to ask you what just like candidly. I mean, how was that experience with her? And uh Did you meet Oprah? No. No. So, um after selling the Jewish stores and the caterers, I realized there's no way that we can sustain a livelihood. And not not the kosher market is very big and we're we're every almost everywhere where we want to be. There's always room for improvement and there's always new stores opening. I'm not saying that we that we have it all wrapped up cuz we don't. There's always work to do, but my goal always was mainstream America. Sure. So, I said, how do we do that? And I decided with my partners that we have to do trade shows and be out there. We're in Monsey, who sees us? Right. Website, how do you market? So Long story short, I'd say, you know what? We're going to go to a trade show in Atlanta. It's a gift show. Gift show? It's not a food show. So, on one side of me the guy selling Swarovski crystals, the other side of me the guy selling Persian rugs from wherever. And here I am selling popcorn. Makes no sense, but at the end of the day, gorgeous booth, chandelier, carpeting, little magician action. perfect gifting item. Yeah, for sure. It's a gift, you know. So, long story short, we're selling there. We're we're we're doing our thing and I see a guy he's walking with a people couple of women following him with notepads. And every time he makes a comment, they're taking notes or whatever. And I see he's like staring at me. I'm saying to myself Okay, you see it's okay. We're We're working the We're working the customers in the booth. All of a sudden the guy makes his way over. And he says What's going on here? I said, we're selling popcorn. I thought you were selling jewelry. Like And he's eating and he's like, oh my god. And and the women are eating and they're And he says, tell me something. And I really thought like either he was a competitor or the IRS doing an audit. How much do you make? How many of this? What's going on here? Do Who do you sell? Where do you buy? Where do you Million questions and at the point where I got a little bit, you know, What's going on here? you know what? Here's my card. After the show, feel free to give me a call and whatever. Um he says, uh can we talk over there for a second? And And he says to me, he says, my name is so-and-so and I am And he gave me his title. And he said, I think this would be very interesting for um O. I said, What's O? He says, what do you mean what's O? You You never heard of Oprah? I said, of course I heard of Oprah, but I don't know what O is. He goes, that's her magazine. Oh. I didn't know that. You know, that's cool. You know, I look all over the United States for products for her list. What list? He says, are you Do you live under a rock? Like Yeah. I said, what do you want from two Jewish guys from Brooklyn? What do you Oprah's favorite things as if you would know. And he says, no, he And he of them are spoke of magazine. What do you want from He was very nice and he explained, you know, what it is. And you know, Yanky's like thinking, okay, this guy probably went downstairs to Kinko's, bought a business card, is running around the show getting free samples. Like What are the chances? And I you know, I took his card. This was your first trade show? This was No, this was probably a year into So, there's another You've done trade shows. Trade shows was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I did food trade shows. Sweets and snacks. Gift show is like interesting, you know. And um you know, he said, okay, I think they would really like this whatever and took the business card. He left. And we do you know, doing our the rest of our day. Come back to the hotel, Googling his name. He goes, isn't Yitz Isn't that the guy that just was Yeah, he's real. And and he's you know, he's he's real. And we said, they got to send samples. Here, you got to send samples. Here, you got to send samples. Here, I said, Yanky, worst case scenario. Yitz, worst case scenario. We'll be out some samples. Like big South Chicago, send it here, send it there. Brother, if Oprah asks for something, you give it to her. You do not deny Oprah Winfrey. Yeah, you yes, you don't. Yes. She's a very powerful woman. I'm not sure if you're aware of this. And she also has a huge following. Right. You'll have women like stalking you like in your house with signs and picket signs and they're just going to It'll be a nightmare. It's not worth She has an army. She has a troop of armies of of people like People follow her religiously. Well, now he knows. She's got like a mad cult following. It's wild. She was very popular. I I wasn't familiar with this list and products and I I wasn't familiar with that. And And then I remember on a Motzei Shabbos I got a an email or a letter or something that says, you know, you have been show on her stationery, the whole thing. And it was it was surreal because I didn't have I didn't have a phone system. This was Pop Insanity. Whenever you called Pop Insanity from me there, my cell phone rang. I didn't have a phone phone company. You had a call forwarding. Yeah, I didn't have this. I didn't Oh my god, we need a phone company. We need this. We need that. So, in no time we put everything together. Get ready ready for Oprah. You got the cavalry going. And and and long story short, it was a tremendous tremendous tremendous bracha from Hashem. And it's not that, oh, okay, now I can retire cuz it wasn't about that. It wasn't all of a sudden, you know, we went like this. saw a huge spike in sales since then, right? was spike in sales, but more so it put us on because we got the national exposure. Mhm. A lot of companies, you know what? Let's try this company. If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me. Right. And we've we sold companies Not even crazy big orders, but we've sold companies the biggest names in fashion, the biggest names in movies, the biggest names in in entertainment because of that exposure. Wow. It didn't really change But the fact is you could go anywhere at any time and you start by telling them, "Look, here's my product. I was on Oprah Winfrey's favorite thing list." That's it. That's all you got to say. You got credibility instantly. She gave you something. Right. So so it was it was it was a it was a very serious endorsement. Very serious endorsement. It was a very serious endorsement and I didn't I typically didn't like throw it in people's like in other words I I know they would see and and they would do their own reading. When I left the meeting, they would Google about and they would say, "Hey Aaron, I see this and that." And and I think they appreciated that I didn't wear it on my sleeve. It was smart. It was smart. So you said, "Yeah, look up our company and you'll see." Do your research. He's very lucky. He also gets to sell a product that always got to do like he said he doesn't have to open his mouth sometimes. Sits down here. Here you go. Taste this. Now think about it. If I sold semiconductors. Yeah, it's hard, man. That'd be very very hard to do. We got bites and gigabytes. You sell a software. You sell a service. It's very difficult. and eat. Yeah, right. Here you go. Just dig in. That's a great slogan by the way for 2025. Shut up and eat. Yeah, but just like literally dig in. Here, taste this and that's it. The other thing is the best part is you know like sometimes you know sitting with somebody they go, "Oh really?" When they grab for the reading glasses, you know you're in trouble. They go, "Okay, so let me Aaron let me see the nutritionals." Say Bob, Sally, whatever your name is. Let me help you. This is if you're looking for health food Yeah, this is not it. So you can go to there's plenty of retailers you can get that brussels sprouts and oxygen and styrofoam. not a healthy alternative. That's not what this is. You can actually have that. This is a grilled beef pastrami sandwich with trimmings. Yes. Heart attack waiting to happen. that for a joke. I don't say it because it's so unhealthy. I I say it to just make my point. And you know you know what most of the time the answer is? You know Aaron I really appreciate that Aaron cuz I have people I will have people trying to sell me a pound of sugar and sit here across from me and explain to me why it's healthy. Right. Right. So I said, "I know my space. You know it's not it's not garbage." a mayonnaise bottle that zero carbs like okay thank you. Must be healthy. Sometimes I want something we and I want something good to eat. It's a gift. It's a it's it's a treat. It's something instead of chickpeas at a shalom zachor, you know. How far how how big have you gotten? Are you really national right now? You selling in every state? We sell in every state I would say. I I mean we we deal with I will say 80% of the sales that we do is direct. Um I do have a distributor in California so I don't have to go to all the stores and I used to have a distributor in Florida so I didn't have to sell all the stores direct. I do sell some of the biggest stores directly but I'm working on finding some What's your hottest selling popcorn? Cookies and cream, caramel chocolate drizzle and sweet and salty. Not for nothing Oprah's Oprah's picks. That was Oprah's picks. What's next in Popinsanity? How do you take this idea and how do you not just scale you're doing a great job at that. You're really growing but how do you like add more products? Like obviously this guy Jacob seems really talented. Like if he created this, how do you add to this brand? Is there a plan for something? You have anything in motion? So there's two there's two schools of thought which I which I me and my partners talk about all the time. And that is I could either go very wide or I can go very deep. So in other words I don't sell anywhere near where I want to sell with my current product. There's so much to do and there's so many people that don't know about us that there's a lot. Now when it comes to the kosher world, right? I don't know how many how many how many bags of cookies and cream am I going to buy? First of all, people buy it every week. But we came out with a nut line. 13 flavors and five different nuts. It's doing very very well for us. Then we we're we we were we experimented with freeze dried candies. There's other ideas that we have but in order to stay focused because a jack of all trades and master of none is not my game. I want to whatever I whatever I do, I got to do right. I'll test it. We've we did a lot of trials and tribulations and a lot of things that we tried, thought it worked, maybe it didn't work, let's fix it. There's we do a lot of that but at the same time we want to stay focused. Do what you do well and sell it to a lot more people than just think just sell all this and then you lose control of inventory We always have this question Michael you and I in our business like at what point do we go a little wider, a little deeper? It's very it's that's always the challenge. You know there's something else by the way that I feel like we kind of gloss over a little bit that's not getting enough of the headlines here and I think this is a breaking story. You started a business at an older age. I mean you're not 20 years old anymore and your partner So I started when I was 50. At 50 you reinvented yourself into something completely new and different. And look look how late you started. I mean this is really for other people listening. It's never too late. You started something that you could never have dreamed of when you were in your 20s or 30s you would sell popcorn one day. This was anybody's guess but you did it and you know good for you that you had the goal to really go after it and not say, "Yeah, I'm too old already. I don't you know let me just It's it's it's not that and I don't take an ounce of credit for that. It's it's the chain of events that happened in my life. It was I was literally guided. I don't know how else to to describe it. It's not like, "Okay, so now I'm going to look to launch a company." It it didn't go like that that way. Yeah. Woke up. I got this phone call. All of a sudden I found myself in Linden, New Jersey. The next day I found myself on a plane to It just I I followed where Yeah. I have I take away from that is it's never too late to start a business. No, 100%. But let's also not forget that this guy Jacob could have been today running a little small cafe in Monsey minding his own business and missed out on this entire world. And all of this happened because he thought his life was over. His life savings you said went into that cafe and his lawyer advised him to return all your equipment and he did. And one thing he couldn't return and that was literally how everything just was a stepping stone to the next thing. Where is that popcorn Michael, I was literally holding onto that question for like a half an hour. Like I want to ask Why you didn't want to say don't interrupt? I didn't want to exactly I didn't want to like just butt in but I'm like Where is that popcorn Where is that popcorn machine? Yeah, where is it? When you're coming to our office Yeah, of course. in Linden Park, New Jersey. Uh-huh. There is a wall that says Popinsanity and a couch and there's a popcorn machine there. That's it. On that popcorn machine there's a plaque Uh-huh. with our logo and it says, "This is where the insanity started." Wow. That's nice. There you go. That's very very Yeah. Stephen, great question. You get You get some of the credit for that. You know I I'm going to ask that question a little differently. I want to know where your insanity started personally. Where did you grow up? I don't I don't know anything about you. You One thing that I've been holding onto for 30 minutes by the way cuz I'm scared to interrupt, you know, when sitting next to my co-host here. Um you you called Avraham Fried Avremela. There's very few people that can call Avraham Fried Avremela. There's very few people that can say they learn on a daily basis with Mordechai Ben David. There's very few people in general Not daily, weekly. Weekly, you know. Yeah. You've even you've even met him. So Michael, we held onto this question because I can't imagine anything is going to compete with his Popinsanity story. Like how many of these stories does he have in his life? I know but I've heard the Popinsanity story. Me and I hung out with Mordechai Ben David but just one Shabbos. So what's the what's My question first of all is just take me to your background. I'm curious about it unless she has another business question that he wants to ask. No, but I'm fascinated by this whole thing. I'm I'm very fascinated by it. He must be very like proud of every time you see a bag. Like you must covel inside because you know the blood, sweat and tears that went into it. And you know that and just like to see it all over the place everywhere you turn. Like are you appreciating you what you did maybe a little bit too much? Are you like very high on your horse about it that you have a successful product out there? How do you keep yourself balanced of like, "Yeah, I did this." And also, "Yeah, I did this." You walk into the store and like make sure the bags are perfectly, you know, aligned and like you know they're like you know you see a bag and it's like, "Oh look Chris you're like Yeah, he's What do you mean he still had popcorn in his trunk? I I I love the question that he asked. I'm going to give you Forget my questions. Please focus on us. No, I'm going to answer your question, too. But you asked a very very very not only a good question Let's watch. a question that means a lot to me. And I never Do I Do I say, "Wow, look at this." Maybe whatever. I'm more every time God, I get emotional thinking about it. Every time I walk into my plant in Jersey and there are can I have 20 something people working there, machines going, pallets coming, going and I see how big this place is. I I have a hard time believing it. Wow. It's still not processed. I didn't think it would. No, it processed but I'm just so and I see Grateful. You sound very grateful. I'm very very grateful. And when I see when people send me pictures, "Hey Aaron, I'm in Hawaii." And and they send me pictures of the thing. I'm like, "Wow. Oh my God." I I couldn't I I don't I don't know how else to say it. You created a lifestyle. You created a brand. There's no question about it. I'm very me and my partners I'm very thankful to the people that I work with. Extremely thankful for the people that I work with. And they put a lot of hard work into it. Very often it's me and my partners that get the credit. It's not. It's our families. I missed lots of weddings. I missed lots of parties and things because the order had to get out. Or we needed to cook when when it's this time of year, they're holiday season. We have two shifts and it's it's a it's a lot. But just in answer to your question, it's it's it's a lot of a lot of courtesy. I told it's a lot of gratitude because it's you know, a lot of people that take credit and this and that. It's not credit. Believe me when I tell you so many things happen. I I look at my partners like how how how is it If I wanted, I wouldn't even know how to reach out to Oprah to offer her product to to consider. I I googled I googled how do you get that There are school there are seminars that you go to that teach you how to present even if she'll open it. And this guy walked into my booth. That doesn't happen. So what am I going to say? Ooh ha? It's a college bar. It's it's it's it's Yeah, it's from Maya. No way to explain it. I do have to tell you though I I sit with a lot of people who want to start businesses and they have ideas every day to be honest with you. Of course. You get a phone call, can I sit with you? And I do dedicate time on Sundays for people who want to like you know, talk about their businesses and ideas. So I have to tell you Many people I hate to say it waste a lot of time on small pet projects of theirs because they think that their idea is the next big thing. I think that what I'm gathering from this if I may is that when God sends you the signs that things are working and you know, the flow of luck starts, don't slow it down. Right? Embrace it and continue to build on it. And if he's sending you the sign that you know, okay, here's the the landlord saying okay, the landlord is writing a check. Just jump on it and run on it. But I I have to ask you though What's your advice of people that are busy with their pet projects? With their things that it's not going anywhere. that question. You know why? Because I believe it cuz like like you, people reach out to me and say hey, you know, I'm starting this type of thing. I mean I saw you know, I've been watching you and maybe you can give me something. And sometimes people come to me with an idea. And I want to be very sensitive to them. But I tell so I spin it around instead of saying you're out of your mind. I say the the way I look at And this is the this is what happened with the popcorn. The way I look at being really investing knee deep in something is if I offer you this right? What am I telling How am I convincing the buyer to buy that? Do I really believe that I'm offering a service that no one offered you? Do Like so not to go into a business thing. I believe a business has to have a couple of things. Let's start with three. By the way, please go into it. Either one either you have an idea, it's a patent. You're the only one who has it. Lock, stock, and barrel. You have an idea, patent, you're done. The second opportunity I believe is if you have some sort of a proprietary either license or a proprietary something. Even if it's not a patent, but everyone else's goes like this, yours goes like this, like that, and it it there's an added value or there's something different. Uniqueness, yep. Because and the perfect example is if I want to sell you a t-shirt, it's $1.60. If I'm selling you a t-shirt with a swoosh on it or something else or a Disney or something, it's a different price. Why? Because of the difference in the item. The other third thing is everyone's selling this for $5, I sell it for two. Yeah. So you're selling on price. So either you have a patent or you have some some some reason why it's different. It's a license. It's it's a it's a it's a added value or something or price. I don't care what your name is or what it is, I buy it for this, you sell for that, I'm buying it from you. So now I tell the person now that you have this thing where does it fit What How am I convincing convince me to buy this. Yeah, but it's the best one. I know my mother tells me that also, but but tell me what So that really I believe is before we we I started I started talking to Yanki in July of 2013. Until 2015, we spent two years spending money running around the country flavor houses, snack houses, machines, showroom, design, processes, trends. I took two years to figure out what you know, just going to the popcorn but what am I bringing to the table? How am I convincing this guy to buy popcorn from me? And the way I did it was every time I go into a meeting with a big outfit and they already buy buy I buy all the sample. Not only do I know what's on his shelf and how much it is cuz if he has the same peanut butter ice cream for for 9.99, what what I find you're selling up here. You don't have anything in this price point or you don't have anything in this flavor or you have bags, but we have boxes. You have boxes, we have acrylic. You try to find where you fit into Give me a reason to buy from you. I'll bring I'll buy the samples off the guy's retail shelf. I'll walk into the meeting with his stuff. And I'll say John, here's your peanut butter popcorn. Yeah, I I know. I buy it. I know it. Taste it. It's good, right? Yeah, this is this is really good. So now here's my peanut butter popcorn. Now you see, we make our own peanut butter. We chop our own nuts. Taste this. Okay. Remember what I said. Before he opens his mouth, you see he goes uh okay. Okay. I I I I So you have the number two on a high level. You have the uniqueness. You have the It's it's quality. We don't And by the way, it it's it's it's it's also a negative because we don't just have seed in a high in a silo somewhere. You push a button, it goes from here, it goes from there into the popper, onto the onto a truck, into a distribution center. We're chopping the nuts. We're pouring the thing. We're We're labeling each bag. proprietary about Pop'n Sanity? Is it the recipe? Is that it? Like if I want to start tomorrow, you know, Ushy and Michael flavored popcorn company, you know, and we can go to a manufacturer or figure out how to get it. Obviously we're not going to have the same quality taste as yours. Is that the proprietary thing? The recipe? So the the answer is I'd call it Pop. Please don't. Stay away. The the the answer is it's a little bit of of three things. One is the proprietary is the secret sauce. Uh-huh, the recipe, yeah. Um but in addition to the secret sauce, it's also processes. Some people they leave you know, you put it in and it goes. Yeah, we don't work that way. There are buzzers that get that go off. Cooling here, heating here, temperature just like this. When it gets to this, it's very complicated. Okay, that's part of the recipe in that sense. Yeah, it's the it's the recipe, the process. No, but I think what he's saying, I'm sorry. It's not just the recipe. It it has to sit for two minutes. It has to go you know, the timing. I get it. I could say that could be the recipe. It's like McDonald's was the first one to figure out how to you know, make a thousand burgers in just two minutes with a process. It wasn't necessarily the recipe. It's their process. How to do big volume in a small little space. Right. So the recipe is the process. It's the packaging. It's the branding. And that that's like you know, pretty much 10 20% of everything. And the 80% is the one above. The one above, that's it. You ever eat anybody else's popcorn or you only eat Pop'n Sanity? I've I've eaten people's popcorn, sure. No, even now. If you go to the store, does your wife ever buy you like regular popcorn or you don't bring it into your house cuz that's like the enemy. When you watch a movie, do you only eat Pop'n Sanity popcorn? No, so so we so we we we are actually um um soft we soft launched savory popcorn which we do for um corporate accounts and certain private private label kind of things. It's not in the regular stores yet. Want to perfect it. But when we have a party or something like that, I call Yanki and say Yanki, could you make me some of your you know, sweet jalapeno or your garlic truffle or regular theater popcorn and he sends home a bag. How do I apply to be a taste tester by the way? I I'd like very much to be a taste guy. You you take the popcorn with you to the movies? Like you put it in your pocket and you know, I try to save the Right, right. But the problem is my popcorn is probably more expensive. I have to tell you when I go to a movie, I take popcorn and I put Reese's Pieces into the bucket and I mix it because it's delicious and I have popcorn with the Reese's Pieces together. It's You heard it here first on the Night of the Living Popcorn. There you go. I'm sure there is others by the way. And that's a unique thing to get a savory in a whole new different world of Yeah, but but but but that's also something that you don't need me like say the same thing for me to go to buy or say okay here's my cracked pepper popcorn buy it. Yeah. Why? So I got to do something else. The product has to be good as a baseline but you also need more than just that. Anybody in the family getting into the business and each of the partners? Nobody has any family in it? No. My my children are in um health care and real estate. And Well, we know his son learning the business. My partner I have one learning and my partner's also have learning and daughters. I I I don't I don't foresee it but it was never really discussed but I I see I don't I don't see that uh that happening but I don't know. Michael, want to get to your lightning round questions? Are we going to be Are we back now with the lightning round questions? Let's go. We got to wrap up soon. Okay. All right. You know, so this segment of the lightning round questions is brought to you by Serenity Center. You like that? Is it really? Yeah, why not? I mean there are new spots everywhere. That's the second time you did them a lot of action because Serenity was starting to Well, first of all, I like what they're doing. They're providing a service in the community and they're billing insurance and they're providing you a top-notch level service for you know people that need the service. So the lightning round brought to you by Serenity Center on the Prime Source sponsored None of Your Business podcast. So we're going to do a lightning round. It's just a list of questions and you can say pass or none of your business. Okay. What is the most expensive thing you've ever bought? My house. Okay. Oh, as a gift? Um no no no no no no no no no no no. What kind of watch you wearing again? How long did it take for Pop Insanity to turn a profit? Lightning round. About approximate. We don't want the exact date. This is the slow rate. I When you open up a company there's the expense. So I would probably say it took years to 2 years? say that. Let's go with 2 years. All right, 2 years. You know, Oprah definitely helped I guess in terms of the brand. It was a good endorsement and put it on be a good Jewish celebrity as an endorsement for Pop Insanity? That's a great question. Could be a lot of people. Could be a lot of Go with your gut. Give us an answer. Who would it be? Who would you be happy if they were spotted a picture was spotted with them eating your popcorn? In the Jewish world like Eshaiahu Rebo? I don't know. I don't want you to give me the face. Who's the face? Are you the Do you have a mascot? Is there a mascot for Pop Insanity? No, but I mean usually when we we when we do HSN online shopping TV shows and interviews and stuff like that I do them. It's not that I'm any more more capable than my partners but I guess they'd always they always yield to me but they're welcome to come on here anytime. So there's no name that you're going to pick, right? Who is the person that you played a lot of music? We didn't get into that which I definitely wanted to but what was your favorite? Give me a moment. The pl the That you played. You played music with your favorite person. Favorite connection. Favorite uh I've had some amazing amazing um moments with Yihu de Green. Um and it's not only it's not only the performance it's it's like you said it's the package to see how the people react. I mean when we started doing Slichos years ago I started 2007. It was the first time and you know just so you know they they pay me whatever. And I was a little bit weird by it because this is not the type of Slichos that I was brought up with. Yeah. It was more somber hours. and people are bouncing off the walls and I'm saying to myself like And then after Slichos I get text and I got some emails and I got some some messages from people. I didn't realize how serious this was. Like I would have been I I was planning on going to the movies tonight but someone should have me here. And you know Rosh Hashanah I kept I'll worry about it when it comes and it was just an epiphany for me. Yeah. And now nowadays or when I spoke to one of my rabbaim I said you know should I be doing this? You know, and after I shared with him some of the feedback I got he said the question is not should you continue doing it. He said are you allowed to stop? Wow. Because like this year I always whenever I'm playing and people are dancing I always I'm always looking around and I always want to find that group of people or person which says to myself that is why I'm here tonight. Wow. And I and I look around and you see a guy without a yarmulke with a tattoo holding a book closed crying in the corner of a shul. Mhm. I'm saying to myself maybe next year he'll he'll make connect with his family or something. You have people that it really really affects them. So in answer to your question it's not so much the performance it's I had many beautiful opportunities with with Yihu de Green and others. I had the opportunity to play with Carlebach years ago. Wow. That to me was amazing. And the first time Do you remember? We played in on on on Ocean Avenue. What what did I play? I played drums. Now what songs did you play there? Oh, I don't remember. It was a whole bunch of songs. just it was just unbelievable. You know, I I didn't really understand him the way I do now. He's a very very big part of my life is music. There's davening, his tefillos. There's a lot of special special things that I've gained from from being so in tune to him but I started playing with the guitar and the first time I played out of my basement with a guitar was when Mordechai Ben David had asked me to come up at one of the Pesach programs and we played together. I said I I I I let's go. And we did it and we played just one Shabbos by the way. And that was when I came out of the basement with a guitar and just probably right about then is when I ended up in the Carlebach shul on one um Tisha B'Av night because in my shul you know they run through Eicha blah blah blah. I said where where where am I going to get that experience like you went to camp. Remember remember that you're sitting on the floor and the guy got up and spoke. You really connected with them. I said where am I getting that from? I said you know what let me go to the Carlebach shul. I don't know. I come there there's like 12 people couple of people lights are off candles. It was interesting whatever and all of a sudden I hear from the back of the beam because they have different people that take different perakim. They say it out loud whatever this guy that guy whatever. I'm saying okay what am I doing? It was interesting. And I hear I remember I remember in in his where Yihu just started the first time I I met him in his thing it was the the pasuk Al Leilah Ani Bocheah. So I hear you know everyone's reading reading and then I hear from behind the bema he's na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na And then again it's dark candles on the floor and I hear Al Leilah Ani Bocheah singing by himself. And then slowly everybody's joining on by the time it was over it was fire. Fire. I got so inspired. Who's this guy? Oh, Yihu de Green thing. I I didn't know who he was and we connected and it When I went out of the music business playing gigs I stayed with him because I appreciate his music and his style and what he does and the effect that he has on people. So I I'm very happy to be question here. What do you recommend we start calling the lightning round cuz it's taking too long to get to long. Yeah. We tried this we crashed and burned and Yeah and we're trying to bring it back and We took it behind the barn we shot it and then we just brought it back. I say I say right now. Okay, listen guys. Whoever is left right now listening all 10,000 you know followers that are listening to this podcast right now come back to us and please tell us should we continue the lightning round? And what should we call it if we are going to continue it? Let's see what everyone says. Uh yeah, sure. In my humble opinion I think I think I think I think I think the lightning round is is is interesting. Yeah. But the questions have to really one have to be lightning applicable. Right. Right. And and and and and I like where the questions lead though. I like where the questions lead because it opens up a whole new chapter to your life that maybe we haven't entered into and that's what I like about it. Was there ever a name of a popcorn that you guys we can't name it that and just Oh, hundreds. Hundreds. Hundreds. Yeah. Like it's inappropriate but it's okay. Oh, not inappropriate just cheesy and It's not You meant like I meant like you know yeah. And then that's really good but unfortunately you just can't really use it. No, I didn't. We have some ideas for you. If our listeners have any ideas you coming up with any anything new for 2025? Yes. Yeah. Anything you could tell us? No. Really? Anything that's imminent that you could tell us maybe perhaps that if we release this in a week if if if if all goes well you you will know about it. Fantastic. Are we in the inner circle now like do we get news a little bit before the rest of the public does? Excellent. Excellent. I'm also expecting Pop Insanity to be delivered to my home for Shabbos just like Thank you for having me on the podcast. Here's a box full of my goodies. I have to tell you learning about your story was amazing and the fact that Carlebach's yahrzeit actually was what brought you here if you remember when we met. Oh, right. Right. And that was beautiful. So music is always very meaningful to to me and I appreciate your background and what you do and you're inspiring from a business level from a personal level and the fact that you you keep with staying true to the idea of none of this is possible without the one above, and that everything happens for a reason, and you know, the takeaway that Ushy we were saying before about that one stupid popcorn machine that couldn't be returned, and that lease that didn't work out, and the cafe that you wanted and you waited 50 years to open a cafe and it was your dream and it fell apart. And learning that everything happens for a reason and take it take it with you and understand that it's like it's going to be your biggest blessing, right? Which is amazing. Any final message to anyone that's listening? Absolutely. And that is um and I might I mean it from the bottom of my heart. It's very important to understand that everyone goes through trials and tribulations and everybody has ideas and everybody has a job or has a or is struggling in one way or the other, but when it pertains to business, and it's it's really very important that you do your research and you do your hishtadlus and you do your put in that elbow grease and really invest in making sure you're not fooling yourself like I said before, why should I buy this? Do you really believe this is a good idea or or you just like trying to if you could if you really believe in something, go the normal way. We have to make a hishtadlus, although we know that the hishtadlus and the outcome has nothing to do with each other. How many people that you know that have two left hands that are whether it's financial or otherwise that are successful in so many ways, and then you have guys brilliant guys who can't the kids that don't get along with their can't make a parnassah the marriage or the uh All I'm saying is if you have an idea or you have a goal, put the work in, put the hishtadlus in, but understand very clearly that it's not in your hands. It's not in your hands. And so many different and and it it took me a while. Everyone knows, you know, moonah and tachnun and this is bashert and that's bashert. It's all very fine. It's all words. But in the last I would say 3 years, I delved into what all that means and and and it doesn't mean oh, it doesn't we're talking just just, you know, rely on it's not. You got to put in the work and you got to put in the grease and you got to put make the investment and you got to take risks. But understand, make them smart, make smart or as best to your ability, ask people, get advice, but at the end of the day, if you really believe that it's you and your doing and your connections, I can't tell you how wrong you are. I really can't tell you how wrong you are. You have to really believe that someone else is running the gig. Mhm. And once you understand that together with your hishtadlus, I believe that is a recipe for success if it's supposed to happen. Yeah, I appreciate it. Couldn't have said it any better. Yeah. Um we're going to be wrapping it up in a minute, but Stefan, if you don't mind, ask David for his guitar. I I I have a I have a personal request for him. And um and also you play guitar as well. That's You play drums, guitar, and keyboard? Yeah. All three? When did you start, by the way? So drums I drums I I I started playing professionally 1987 with the Neginah Orchestra with a lot of guys gave me breaks. Sheya Mendelowitz alav hashalom and Yochi Briskman and Aaron Teitelbaum and there's so many guys. I don't want to mi- you know, uh leave names out, but a lot of people also were were so good to me in helping me start in the business and uh Ding, I traveled around the world with Uncle Moishy for 18 years. Wow. And I've had tremendous I thought, you know, you think Uncle Moishy and it's a joke? You don't know what this these songs did for not affiliated with Yiddish Kite. When you when you're in one city one year and then you come back the next year and they tell you you have somebody knocking on the dressing room and they're all backstage or whatever and they're sobbing like uncontrollably sobbing and you what's the problem? Can I speak to whatever and we said, well, you know what? Our son was was not well and he passed away and whatever, but on his matzeiva, he wanted don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk beside me, I may not lead. That's the song I want to hear. That's what. Mhm, wow. And then you can't you don't you you then then it's not then it's not a gig anymore. It's it's it's meaningful. So I'm on the video now. So that's what I like about Yihu the Green's music. It's very meaningful. Take us back to the don't don't walk in I That's one of my favorite songs, by the way. You want to really want to hear don't walk in the Yes. Nostalgic. Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk beside me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend, and together we will walk in the way of Hashem. Ooh. Ooh. Vihafta l'rei'acha kamocha. Zeh klal gadol baTorah. Vihafta l'rei'acha kamocha. Zeh klal gadol baTorah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. That was amazing. Thank you. Chazak. All right, Reb Aron, and I have to call you Reb Aron now because anytime I learn something from somebody, they become my rabbi. So I love you and I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on. This was an amazing amazing discussion. We learned a lot. And uh we appreciate you and thank you everyone for joining. Thank you. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment. Love you all. Thank you.