Nissim Black & Rabbi Tovia Singer: The Truth About the Messianic Movement

But they're coming back and they can't block it. You can't even get into a conversion program now. And I have a very considerable large audience of Christians who come in and they admit to me, "I used to hate you, Rabbi Singer. I despise you." >> I was on that list. >> You get on that list. Nissan Black is a dear friend. You probably know him because he's a towering figure in music and here in Israel, he's very popular as a just a spiritual giant. His journey began in ways for most people is unusual. He went through Islam. He went through a difficult childhood and Christianity, the Messianic movement where he wasn't really crazy about me and now he's umic Jew living here in the Holy Land. This interview at NISM is completely unique because together we explore areas of the messianic movement, its history, its development in ways that frankly never discussed before. Enjoy. >> Back to the Nissing Black show on the moral edge. And today I have a very very special guest. But he's not special just because he's special uh within himself. He's special because of all that he does in the world. And that's what I want to discuss with him. Now, what I'm going to try to do today is I want to have a discussion with him, but I don't want this to turn into a therapy session because I got issues and I got issues. Issues that I've been dealing with for years. Uh, you know, I'm in a room full of Jews right now. You can't see everybody, but there's a room full of Jews right now. And I for sure am the youngest Jew in the room. I'm about 13 years old. I'm literally coming up on my bar mitzvah from the time that I came out of the the renewed waters as a Jew. And there is baggage. One of the things that Rebi Nakman of Brusseliff says he was a uh kidic master lived about 200 years ago. Uh if you follow my content then you for sure know who Reban is because I talk about him a lot. But one of the things he says that Gim converts to Judaism have is they have issues. They have soiled garments that they have to clean off and it's very hard to get rid of those stained garments that we come off with. So my guest today is Rabbi Tovia Singer. Many of you know him. you've followed him, you've listened to him, you've you've heard what he's been able to uh you know, put forth in the world and shake up the world in a very very disturbing way. Um and and and and for better or worse, one of the things that I've discussed with him before on my show, if you could go back, you can look at those podcasts. But one of the things we discussed before has been the idea of anti-missionary work uh literally turning into missionary work. What happens is is that there has been a a a shift there's been a major realization from Rabbi Singer and a few others of of the the threat that we have to Jews leaving. And you know, we're having the threat right now of what we're seeing with jihadism and and radical Islam from a physical standpoint, but on a spiritual standpoint, we're not looking at what we're dealing with when Jews are missionized and taken away from Judaism. And usually I I would say and I think Rabbi Tovia Singer would would agree with me is usually Jews who are much more disconnected from their Judaism. However, what ends up happening probably by and large more than anything else as more non-Jews are starting to wake up themselves and to say start to realize because of his work and others that hold on the God of Israel is true. The Torah of Moses is true and I want to go and join in the commonwealth of Israel. And so once you see that start to happen, what happens? We come with our baggage. We've understood the Torah a certain way. We've lived a certain way up until then. And I before I even start, I want to say this that I've made this claim and I made this a lot especially over the last year. The claim that I've made is that once you are a convert, usually more or less you have been introduced and I would say that I don't know what the percentage is. Rabbi Singer said will will help me with that. But I don't know what the percentage is, but I would reckon that, you know, 80 maybe 90% of Jewish converts come from Christian backgrounds. So there was this introduction to the Bible and to the God of the Bible, which happens to be clearly recognized as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So where there's this feeling of where we feel like we already met God, God we met, right? Then we're introduced to Judaism in its rituals form and its in its aspects. We're later on introduced to Shabbat, to the to the holidays, to everything else. But prior to that, we knew God. And because of our love for God drew us into realizing, wait, there's a Torah, there's commandments, there's holidays, there's things that I will be willing to give up my life to follow the God of Israel into doing. As opposed to when generally you come from the religious orthodox world, you're usually introduced first to the Shabbat, to the holidays, to the rituals before they start telling you, hey, there's a Hashem that you need to and and I I really feel like that I've seen that more or less like over the years. And so I want to welcome Rabbi Singer here. Uh thank you for coming on the show again and we're finally actually able to be here in person to uh to do this. I mean we were in p person many times off camera one time on camera. Uh but this is our first time like being able to get together after all these interviews that we've had and I wanted to ask you on this important point and talking about this baggage. Part of that baggage is is something that you do very very well and your debates and everything is you say let's keep it all Bible. Let's stay inside. Let's not go out of bounds. Let's not start pulling from over here. Let's stay inside of the Bible. Which I think is a comfort zone for people who um that was the first thing they interacted with, right? Especially for Gar converts and and people who are Noah Hyde. Even the question then becomes how does a person remove those soil garments into understanding how to to to enter into rabbitic literature and understand the role of the oral Torah leaving from where they came from and then still trying to figure out who is the authoritative message here. Is it the is it is it theim is it the rabbis or is it the prophets? So I think that that's the question I want to start with because I want to set you up to go to another place. >> Yeah. So I'm going to confess this Niss >> and that is I envy you. I'm not saying that um to be ausive and but I envy you because you were in bondage. >> I never knew what it meant to be a Christian. I was never a Christian for one second. >> So it's like a person who grows up wealthy as I did. I never been a Christian. I went to traditional yeshivists all my life. I never had the appreciation that you could have the perspective you can have. You know, there's a a fundamental question about Passover. And that is why are we thanking God for freeing us from Egypt. After all, he's the one that put us there in the first place. Right? Not only did he stick us in prison, he promised Abraham, our father, a blessed memory back in Genesis 15 that your kids are going to be in Egypt. So if I stick you in jail and I let you out 210 years later, you're not going to start doing holidays and what the heck did you do? So but when we look at Tanakh, sweetheart, when we look at the holy scriptures, we see that you have to be kind to the stranger because you yourselves were stranger. You yourself were in bondage. So I want you to know this that >> be very transparent with you. >> I look at you and I do this personally because we're friends, too. and I always just look up at you and you radiate like a diamond and you have a perspective really that I'll never have. Now it is true I'm not going to be self-deprecating because my whole world is emerged in examining the charges of the Christian faith against the Jewish faith. So I have more sensitivity to this than others who had my background. But I like look up to you like you're my you're my tower because you came from that and then you chose the God of Israel above every other god enduring ridicule >> enduring rejection being spat upon and you chose Jew you know I'll tell you this Niss I don't know this is the case but I think if you would have told your family and friends your older circles >> right >> I don't know if I believe in God anymore you probably would not have endured so much ridicule as that you're saying I right that's a no-brainer absolutely no I want to say this because the views need to understand this if someone goes to the pastor and says I don't think I believe in God anymore the pastor will go ah come let's have a talk but you say no I believe in God but I believe that the Jews are right and he's not the Messiah then stuff is going to start flying because you're saying so I want you to know that there's the disconnect >> that the truth is that and that's why in kazal you spoke about our sages of blessed in memory. They always speak about the putitive ge because there's no such really thing as a as a convert, right? It's an impostor gentile that finally realize who he is. And Isaiah 43:5 and 6, I'm going to bring you back is happening and Hashem chose you. And in turn, you heard his call and said, "Heni, I'm here." So there is a marriage between you and God. Hashem called to your nishama. You didn't have to respond. You could have stuck with the old. So I want you to know from my perspective and I'm not just speaking for myself but from the traditional world. I learned in the mirror you're a giant and you appreciate things that I will never appreciate and I envy you but it's an envy of complete love. Not as a friend. Forget all that stuff. >> I What is it like that you were there? You were in bondage. You were in Egypt. I was never there. My father, a blessed memory, was a Russash Shiva who learned in Lakewood. So I'm like going, "Wow, you could have stayed in the church. You could have stayed in the Messianic." He was saying all that garbage. And if you're I just want to say for those of you are Christians, you're going to hear me saying things like that. And please, God forbid. Don't be offended. Please don't. It's because I care. And I confess, I just want to say this to the viewers who are watching us right now. There was a time in my life where I did not care about non-Jews at all. When I was a kid, I grew up with anti-semitism everywhere. There were no non there were no nice non-Jews in Brooklyn in the inner city of Brooklyn. It didn't exist when I was a kid. There was there was no such thing a Jew walks down the street and some non-Jew said, "Oh, good morning, Jew." That never happened. You cross the street to the other side. So, I grew up not caring. So, when I use this kind of language, very important for the viewer to make no mistake about it. But the truth is you're very fortunate. The truth is that you you were there. You understood what slavery is. You understood what idolatry is. Meaning having a mediator between you and God. That's the language of 1 Timothy 2:5. And you're saying, "I'm free now. I can give Hashem a kiss." You know, in your old world as a Christian, you couldn't give God the Father a kiss because you're a sinner. He's perfect. You can't go right to him. But now it's now you can cleave to Hashem. So from my perspective, I'm going you so lucked out. You understand? >> So if I if I said I didn't appreciate your perspective, I'd be wrong. Right. So I have to say that because that was beautiful. That was beautiful. Uh so okay. So digging deeper in into that idea. Right. >> Right. So for others who are like me, others who have been uh enamored either by your work or just the Jewish people, I I say like this and I think this is really where I want to go. The book of Zakaria talks about the eth chapter and you know better than I would, right? That and this was my wake up, right? This was also my wake up. I had to think because I was going through everything like I've told my story so many different times. Let me put myself back into that chair, you know, that glass table I had in my dining room with all my books on it. What were the things that started to tug away at my heart that made me really want to join the Jewish people? What I looked at was this chapter when it said that there will be tens of all the nations that go and grab onto the hymn whatever of the Jew and and and and say that I have heard that God is with you. I I say to most people right now, I say that's happening. I know that there are those who are not cautious of. I think in Catholicism, they're probably much more cautious of it. But what's happening right now I'm seeing a major reform in Christianity going back which I think is the the correct assessment is to say that you know in the 60s for sure this started as a movement to convert Jews and to but what's happening is like simultaneously as that movement was trying to and still in many ways is trying to take off you're having people returning back to the Torah returning back you know Hebrew Baptist churches and and and churches is moving more more and more churches are leaving Sunday worship going to Saturday worship and at the same time incorporating different Jewish things inside of their so we are right now living out I I really honestly feel the call to be or the a call to be a light into the nations and it's happening right in the craziest way because >> to some degree you know there's some people some Jews out there who are talking you have yourself you have the you know Ben Shapiro's on himself is much more covert than anybody I would say. But you have people that are out in the in the public forum, but like how is it happening right now in this time? I feel this is the fulfillment of that prophecy is the church turning itself over and leaning itself back towards our scenai slowly. And because of that, there are so many people saying, "Hold on, I want the whole thing. I want the real thing." So that's my question. >> Let me let me encapsulate this >> and I'm not trying to be provocative, >> okay? And the viewer, I want you, the viewer, to listen like you've never listened in your life. >> It is quite possible that there is no organization more responsible for the repentance of Christians turning to the God of Israel, turning to Judaism than Jews for Jesus. Because as it turns out, it's a passage from Isaiah chapter 8. Your enemies will plan a plan. They'll come up with an idea, but they'll come to not. God uses the plan of our enemies ultimately to save us. What happened was Jews for Jesus and that's just one of hundreds of organizations. That's a Baptist mission to the Jews. They set up we're going to convert the Christian Jews to Christianity. As you said, it took place in the late 60s, early >> 70s. What happened was is they started telling Christians, "We need to evangelize the Jews." And here's what the Jews believe, but we need to evangelize them in their own culture, talk their language. So these good, nice Christians began say, "Okay, let's see what the Jews believe and we'll learn how to bring them to Yeshua, to Christ, all that stuff." >> What happened? They started looking at Judaism. Wait, wait, one second. They actually have real answers. And actually, we have a big problem. So you should know that our enemies in throughout history that means the the Russian Empire as an example they were persecuting Jews in the in the pale settlement in the Russian Empire. What happened? Jews fled. They ran and ultimately they were saved from Hitler's ovens. What Jews for Jesus did was they came up to destroy the Jewish people spiritually, not physically. They're not our physical enemies. They're our spiritual enemies. Chosen people, ministries, first fruits of Zion. What happened was it it triggered millions of Christians to examine the Jewish people and our faith and they wait, hold on, they have very important responses. I mean, I have a very considerable large audience of Christians who come in and they admit to me, I used to hate you, Rabbi Singer. I despise you. >> I was on that list. >> You get on that list. Christians tell me, Rabbi, they write to every day I get this email, Rabbi, I used to hate you so much. Right. And but they kept watching and they knew that I always say look it up for yourself. >> This is not a cult about me or anything like that. So what happened was is they that's why you said 90% of those who are converting to Judaism are for former evangelicals. By the way, I want to press harder. They're not only former Christians as you said. They're not former Episcopalians. There's specifically coming from the most conservative evangelical fundamentals where the most knowledgeable Christians are the ones who are converting to Judaism. Right? Conversely, it's so transparent that the Jews tragically who convert to Christianity are Jews that know nothing about the faith they've been asked to abandon. They don't even have a Hebrew school education. I mean, that itself screams. So, Jews for Jesus saved us. It's a painful z. It's a painful blow, but it caused the evangelical world to look at the Jewish people and then suddenly, as you said, Zechariah 8:23, 10 Gentiles of different n languages are grabbing the shirt of a Jew and saying, "Let us go with you." You ever think, why do I have to grab the shirt? Why? What? What is that there? You know, there's not an extra word in Tanakh, right? >> Why do I have to grab my shirt? You're talking to He's just use your ears. >> Mhm. Because what do Jews do when people with 2,000 years of exile, >> we've been separated a while, >> right? >> It was unnatural. >> You know, I want to just say, I'm interrupting us. We were at a wedding a week and a half ago and it was a very colorful wedding. No, no, no. It's very But >> there was a wedding where there was like every background, every shade was there, right? And I said, "This is the way it's supposed to be. This is this is a real homoasis. This is the way it is. This is natural. Everything else is a gullless situation. So this is really why do they have to grab our shirt? Why did they add that in the puss? Because Jews after 2,000 years ex non-Jews make us nervous and we just believe what you want. Jesus is okay for you. Which makes no sense to them. What do you mean? He's okay or not okay. You understand? So they the non-Jew the Zakaria says going to grab your shirt means he's not going to don't let go. I we I never had this conversation with you. This is completely extraneous. But I am sure when you came to great rabbis and said I I want to convert to Judaism, you had to grab their shirt because sometimes they wanted to walk away. They didn't know what to do with you. And we never had this. This is not a setup. >> That's why you had to grab the shirt. And that's why the verse says they're going to grab your shirt. Means they're not going to let go. Cuz if you didn't grab them, they would say, "Look, Nim, go back to your thing. It's fine. You just believe in one God's good enough for you. You don't need to convert." After a while, you kept holding on. You said, "No, I'm not letting go." says, "And I'm we're living in a time when thousands and thousands of non-Jews are grabbing the shirt of a Jew." Why? Because or else we would run the other way. Why? Because we're not acclimated to this. This is all new for us. 2,000 years of exile. We don't know what to do with people who are supposed non-Jews. >> Okay? >> I I just want to uh um cultivate one point because it's going to come up in our conversation a bit because we're talking about the word converting to Judaism and Noahide. No. So, so just as a key, Judaism is two things. It's a nation and a faith. We're an ethnoreigious group. There's basically no other group like it. >> Maybe Jews. No. >> So, Jews are they mimic ethno that's true. They mimic. Not really. What who are Jews? So, Jews are is an offshoot of Islam. What happened was they broke away from Islam. They But the Muslim then started slaughtering them and killing them. So they would they would infiltrate the Jews mosque and they would slaughter them. So they made a new hal nobody can convert into Jews in order to prevent infiltrators. When I say the Jewish people, we are really the sense of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You are Ben Ara. So the Jews look like an ethnoreigious group that it's really a thousand years old. It's not really really an ethnreeligious group because they don't come from a single parent. We do. So the Got it. >> This is the key. What I want the viewers to understand is that when there are two paths to convert to Judaism because we have to use conventional language. One is I want to join the nation of Israel and I'm part of the nation of Israel and the faith of Israel. We call that a gay or a convert. It's a bad word, terrible word. And the person who says look I just want to convert to the religion of Judaism but I'm not joining the nation. We call that a no but that's an anacronism. Really no are converting to Judaism. They're just not joining the nation. and not only joining the faith of Israel. So it's very important. But that Jews of Jesus has done managed to do all this for us. >> That's that's amazing. So here's my here's my here's always here's one of my struggles. I told you we're going to have a little bit of a therapy session. I said we wouldn't but I want to. So you and my thing >> So one of my things is is that because I come from the background that I've come from uh and I and I mentioned to you my father's a pastor. One of my favorite people in the world very very religious very straight. He's a professor, Bible uh uh teacher. He teaches a professor. He has a doctorate in uh in in in Christian ethics, I think, and and also funny enough apologetics. But I think specifically uh verse Islam is really in the areas where he studied. However, um very straight shooter. So, a major love that I have for him and one of the things that I got to see in his life and I got to see in other people's life was that people who and I know this isn't just for me. I I I've done this, you know, I guess multiple times, but transforming from Islam, Christianity to Judaism, but what I saw was a major transformation. And what I've seen in that world, which continues to still be probably really the leading cause for people, you know, um, wanting to join Judaism as a major thirst for Hashem, a major thirst for for connection to Hashem in a very honest and real way that I feel and I seen that we may struggle with inside of Judaism today. There's a certain sincerity. I feel and I've told people this. I feel like I would get further taking a missile yashim, the path of the just Jewish ethnic books and going and setting up a shar at a church even though I couldn't at at a at a church. I think I would have in in just two days I think I would have thousands of people out there, you know, pack the house, you know, and and I think that, you know, there's there's there all shoes you go to, they will tell you can't come back, right? So I I I envy the thirst that these people have and I'm wondering there's components of for sure without a shadow of a doubt which were taken from from from Judaism. The question is is that with that thirst, how do we fulfill that and be there for all these people that if had the chance to be able to hear about Hashim, right? and to be able to hear about the Torah. If it was able to reach and penetrate them, we would be able to. Now, we we have on one hand, we don't proitize today. The truth is, I don't know if that's always been Jewish history, right? Doesn't seem to be that that's always been the way that we operated going back several thousand years. I know, you know, for sure there's a reference of it inside even the New Testament. We definitely don't get our get our Torah from there. But as a historical standpoint, we see that there would was at some point uh more of a effort from um from Jews to to get people to join. I mean the Jeremy for sure is very adamant about getting Noahites to come and and going to to to spread the religion of of Judaism to the nations. So the question I guess would be what do we do to fulfill that? And how do we do it in a way where we're also not like proitizing like or is it okay to proitize? What's the real question? >> Right? So the role of the Jewish people is not to make great Hollywood films, >> okay? >> And not to to do people's taxes and not to be great. Yeah. I mean, we make great accounts, but that's not our role. >> Our core role is to be an ory, a light to the nations. Isaiah 49:6. That's our role. >> In fact, we're told immediately before the Ten Commandments, Ten Commandments is Exodus 20 and Exodus 19, we're told we're to behard, which means a kingdom of priests and a sacred nation. Now, if we're the priests in the world, if we're the rabbis in the world, who are our leoty? Who are our parishioners? The answer is the non-Jew. That's our role. >> But we're not told to be like the crusaders and go and go into different nations. How does a light work? Imagine for a moment if the light we're occupying now, the room we're occupying now was completely dark, right? And we illuminated only one candle. >> That light would reach every part of this room, right? >> Every part of the room. And what's exquisite about the use of a light? What's unique about the kindling of a light is that I can light your candle and it doesn't diminish from mine. In fact, I could with one candle illuminate an endless number of other candles and it doesn't take away from my light. And that's what the Jews are supposed to do. The Jewish people are supposed to stand strong and say to the world the am the truth. Just talk. Just devote yourself to Hashem. The world will go by your light. Isaiah chapter 60 verse one. Kings will go by your light. So this this is very important that I'm not this is I'm not doing any um fancy language here. This is Tanakh speaking. What is unfortunate sometimes people are not learning as much enough as necessary. But the what's happening today is really mindblowing. Christianity is really quite the opposite. You know I did an interview yesterday and the person had no came from New York had no interaction with non-Jews. He said why is Christianity such a successful religion that there are two billion people that belong to it? Basically onethird of the world is Christian. Why? So I said to him, I'm shocked that they don't have twothirds of the world's population. And the only reason why the church does not comprise twothirds of the world population because they altered the Jewish scriptures. They changed the message of the Hebrew Bible and therefore it has a problem getting over that. Introduced a doctrine of the trinity and they lost a lot of adherence. So what's the attraction of Christianity? So you touched on that. The attraction of Christianity is that you're a loser. You're a sinner. You're worthless. What's our worst character flaw? Low self-esteem. That's the Rav Nakman, who you spoke about earlier. This is You can boil almost everything down to this. The worst thing is to think yourself as I'm a sinner. I'm worthless. I'm garbage. I'm Nidri. Nothing can save me. Romans chapter 3, there's nothing you can do to save yourself. And therefore, I need someone who I will never be. And that's Jesus who looks gorgeous. He look he's perfect. He never sinned. Born of a virgin. If I was born of a virgin, I'd also never sinned and therefore I believe in him. So what's happening is Christianity is simply affirming a low self-esteem. He's saying you are a sinner and therefore you need an intermediary. And then what is the other flaw in our personality and that is gao arrogance. We want to be the rock star. >> So what does Christianity say? Not only are you low and you really can't come directly to the father because the father can't look at you. You're so sinful. And Niss, you know, because you know that world. That means I'm not I'm not strawmaning this. This is exactly every Sunday service. You're a sinner. You're worthless. What is the other drug? So heroin's going in one arm, the cocaine is going in the other arm. And that is we all want to be rock stars, right? So Christian says if you believe in Jesus, then you become a prophet and God speaks through you. You could speak in tongues and you now are the the Holy Spirit dwells in you. It's like unbelievable. Wow. What a what a powerful joke. What Judaism says is no, you're creating the image of God. Christianity this if you're a Christian, this is going to offend you. And I don't mean it. I don't mean Christianity is man's effort to create God in his image. Judaism, conversely, is God's successful endeavor in creating man in his image. In fact is a mitra not only to believe in one god but to love and have with cleave to hashem and to imitate god. You would never see that in the church. You can't imitate the father. The father's here. You're you're alone nothing. No to you be holy. You should be holy because I'm holy. What does one have to do with the other? You're God. I'm not. No. I created you in my image. I love you. In fact, Isaiah 54, Hashem is our husband. It's unbelievable. So, uh, so do understand this that what people are drawn to is the good feeling that no doubt Christianity delivers on that you are sinner, but Jesus died for your sins, which is the motherload of bad ideas. >> Look, N, we never talked about your beliefs about criminal justice. We'd never had this conversation, but I can be sure that not just you, but everyone watching us now, it would break our hearts to think even for a moment that there's anyone sitting in a prison in any country that's innocent, >> right? We we want the guilty to be incarcerated, and we want the innocent to be exonerated. What an idea that God punishes innocent people for the bad behavior of guilty people. Now if we have that sense of mercy and you know and and justice don't think God does. So therefore Judaism is saying you could do it. You can make it. I love you. You created in my image. Deuteronomy 14:1. You're my kids. I love you. I just want to be close to you. >> Right. Right. Right there it is right there. So, do you think that in in our world today, which cuz most of those things you could say, like I said, you could say that and you're going to you are going to have people flock to you from the Christian world who who understand when they're at that breaking point, right? Most of the things you say, almost anything you say in contention to a Christian, they're going to flame off. They're going to be upset. the very very low barometer of how much they will allow you to say to them. I'm talking about a devout Christian that is is is not wrestling basically at all at least with their faith. And I see that they're very very easy for them to get offended by things that you will say um that is against their faith. As opposed to we're Jews, you know, we're on the we're on the chopping block all day long. Everybody's got what to say. If you're Israelites, we're not really Jewish. We're not this. We're not that. everybody's got some claim or whatever and we don't seem to be getting so upset about like we just you kind of don't care. So it's it's I find it fascinating and I start to think about this of the reason of why the reason of why is because there's many reasons but one of the things I thought about was the same reason of why Christians I would say even Muslims but Christians even more so evangelicals are very very adamant about conversion not just Jews they they believe it it's a commission the great commission that that you know that came from the apostles to go out and baptize and you s save the world in the name of whatever the father son and the holy spirit. So but they took that to the next level and the reason why they take it to the next level is because the great conviction that they feel that if you don't believe in that in what they believe in then you go to hell. So because they feel so convicted by it, they they their whole mission. >> It's interesting using the word convicted by it, which is a Christian term. >> That means you want to say they're so committed to it, but you're really I would say this to you, holy brother. You're answering the question. >> Am I? >> Yeah. That means, let me explain. It's really very delicious. And those who are listening to us right now will go high. >> It's because of my deep respect for Christians that this works. that they really are going to listen to me. Why? Because they really are committed to scripture and they really love the Bible and this is why I can actually talk to them. Whereas an Episcopalian has no interest in talking to me. I don't care what you because they're not interested in they're liberal Christians. They could they're like the equivalent to reform. They don't care. So it's just the opposite. See, I respect the Christian. I say I respect your commitment and I ex respect the fact that you believe in solar scriptor. You believe in the Bible and that's your only authority. In fact, you evangelicals reject Rome. You reject Pope Leo I 14th. You reject the Vatican. You say scripture alone. And they really mean it. And I take you seriously. And because I love the Christian and I love the way he thoughts, I say to the Christian the following. >> I'm on board. I am going to devote my life to you cuz I think you're serious. >> You see, if I say that they're not going to listen to me, that's that's a a bigotry of low expectations. It's just the opposite. The reason why I do what I do is because I know they will listen to me. Why? Because I quote the Bible. I quote scripture and I quote it in context. I use the Hebrew language. Why do I use Hebrew when I'm speaking? I know that the majority of the viewers don't understand that. But when they hear the words, you should be holy because I the Lord your God is holy. They're I'm in love. They're turned on by it. Why? Because they have a good soul. >> Exactly. >> That's it. But that was a point I was going to actually bring up to you because you speak the language, >> right? >> But I I this the only push back I would say is that >> you get emails. You just said it today from Christians >> and these Christians email you and I didn't email you by the time I was able to tell you. I saw you already and tell you that I was not on rap. I was not on team single, >> right? Okay. >> No, your words were when we did our first show, you said I wasn't a fan. >> I wasn't a fan. Yeah, I was in therapy for a few weeks after I started forget >> which which I think is the the truth is is that people have to get to a point, right? There's that breaking point of >> So why didn't you walk away? So So >> you're answering the question. So you're saying you weren't a fan, which was a very polite way. I hear you guys. Good. So what happened? What happened was what compelled you was scripture. >> Exactly. >> It wasn't a personality claim. This guy has a nice red tie. No, you said but the guy's going the Bible. I'm going to look it up. >> But but I had to be interrupted on my own first to come back and say, "Hold on, let me listen to a Rabbi Toby Singer." And I think that that's what happens. I I think who's coming and who who probably do this do the survey is that initially, oh no, this guy, you can't even hear it. You won't even accept it. You won't even begin to think about it. Whatever the case is, you continue your journey because of your devotion and commitment, conviction, whatever it is to to trying to follow Hashem. You hit these bumps in the road and you start to see this doesn't this is something's not feeling right. >> And then all of a sudden, let me open my ear up again and then let me hear what everybody say. Then you speak the language >> which you picked up very well. I don't know how you picked up the language. >> I want I want I want >> talking about Hebrew by the way. No, I want I'll tell you is this. So, what I want to do is I want to suggest what you're saying and if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong. But I this is really very insightful for me >> cuz it's from that other delicious perspective I don't have. >> So, in order for you, you start off by saying I couldn't can't stand this guy. >> But I was quoting texts. You obviously had to go back to someone and say, "What about what the singer is doing?" And what they did was the answers they gave you to the problems I was posing were vacuous, were empty. They fell short. Don't listen to He's the bad guy. He's the worst guy in the world. Don't ever listen to him. What do you mean though? What the difference does it make? That's an ad homonym fallacy. That's the weakest possible argument. So, I would say the following based on what you just shared because you bring a perspective I don't have is not only that I had to show you the truth and beauty of the Jewish faith using Christianity as a mirror to reflect that. You then had to go back to the church with all the arguments that I was presenting and others were presenting and then the answers you were getting and the hostility you were feeling like like what are you doing messing with these people? These people don't know the Lord. They're blind. They have scales over their eyes. Right? You heard all this stuff, right? They didn't make it up. Paul con came up concocted this stuff. Anyway, wait. That's not the answer I was looking for. Give me an answer to his question. I want an answer. The Jews are blind. We're grafted. I don't want that answer. I want to know the answer because I love the Bible. So, two things I would posit had to have occurred. Number one, you had to hear something that was compelling. Not that I'm a genius. I'm just quoting the Bible. But number two is the church had to drop the ball and had to fail you and let you down. And then you said, "All right, one second. I think I'm going to lose this again." Does that resonate for you? >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would say my journey was a little bit more complicated than that, but I would I would I would tend to believe that most of the time that's the way that it would happen, right? I I would think that that is the way that it happened. you mine was a little bit more elongated than that. But I think cuz mine's had to go from, you know, me me going into the to the to the messianic world, right? Which is when I really started having the the points of contention. It's like, you know, because in that world there's different groups. What most people don't understand there's different groups and and there's sort of a understanding in there where I would say claw like a rule you know wherever there's the the most churchy the most distant from you know actual Judaism there's probably a lot of Jews in the room as opposed to where it's the most traditional more closer to orthod probably a lot of non-Jews in the room that's always the case right >> you need to repeat that cuz I don't think the view you and I are understanding this but I want you to know that 100 thousand people going what >> we understand that just do that again because he okay so in the messianic world >> you go into a messianic congregation 90% of the people there are not Jewish and if you go into the most ga thing with crosses all over the place you can't find a gentile okay so that's it so I just wanted the view >> I think it's important to >> no people don't know that the messianic movement is filled with if you want to meet a gentile go to a messianic congregation bing you'll find you want to find Jews you go to the place of the bigger the cross the bigger the crucifix the bigger the thing that's where the Jews are I did get a minion for mid anytime. So anyway, no cuz we're talking you and I know the le. But the viewers out there going, "What are these two guys talking about?" >> It's interesting. >> Crazy, isn't it? >> No, it's crazy. >> So that's the other perspective. See the Jew who leaves Judaism, heaven forbid, he's not looking for more Judaism. He's looking for less Judaism. He's disenfranchised. See, he's da looking for the place that doesn't have the Jew. I did that. That's why the guys who there are it happens like we had the golden calf. We had Jews who became apostates in and to this day when they when a Jew leaves the Jewish faith and goes to a church, the last thing he wants to do is want more synagogue. Conversely, the guy from Korea who never met a Jew in his life, he's go, "Oh, I love this Hebrew. Hallelu," you know, and they're praising the Lord. That's exactly what's going on. That's what I'm saying. It's all perspective. And that you had come to the God of Israel and you had a very long journey. We've never, you know, had this long conversation. And you were able to they failed you and the God of Israel called you and ultimately at some point you said to Hashem okay I'm listening I'm here and for you to join the nation of Israel to move to Erit to land of our forefathers this is unbelievable this is really so that's really two things had to happen >> right >> Torah had to win and the church had to fail Jacob had to win and Asa had to fail and that's why Hashem says in Malachi the last book of the proverbs that I loved Jacob and I hated >> Asov. >> So >> intense no >> intense that's very intense. So my question is this then in today and I want to I want to I want to sort of leave the church. I want to come to us, right? I want to come back to us because and and I'm going to use a very very um Christian word for the lack of for the for the fun of it really but it's really really for the fun of it. uh just because I understand that you understand the language and and and but I I think there has to be you touched on it very briefly, but I want to really go into this >> because I'm obsessed with this right now is that I think there needs to be a quote unquote revival of learning Tanakh amongst Israel of the Jewish people. I feel like we are in a place right now where what people don't realize and this is what I'm trying to tell you when I say that you speak the language. The other added layer of what I think attracts people to your content who come from a Christian background or whatever the case is is that I I and I said this this is going to sound to some roshivas and other people like heresy. Okay? So just preparing you. It It sounds like it, but I'm not 100% saying what I'm saying. But you want to understand what I'm saying, >> right? So bear with me. I've told people this. There's a big difference between and follow me all the way through of hearing and I've had a personal experience with this from a friend of hearing from somebody thus says Hashem D. Right? There's a different impact on what that does to a person than when you hear that it was said in the name of Rebi so said in the it's a different impact of what that happens when you hear thus say is a shimm like I said to for another day I said I'm a mamish I believe literally with all of my heart right that the righteous people of today's generation those especially who I've been able to come close in contact with Rabbi Aish Rabbi Morgash other people that I'm connected with the Yanuka. I believe in my heart of hearts that they are connected. They are pipelines to to God himself. Right? I believe that, >> right? >> I was told that about King David. I was told that about Samuel. I was told that about. So there's a different impact I think that that we don't realize that the the amuna pashuta the simple faith that a person gleans out from understanding and reading the prophets that >> because of a lack of that we we are missing that in our world. And that's that's the contrast I was trying to make earlier when I could say I could take a mistim over there because there's a there's a certain u thirst for dvar hashem >> right >> where I think we have to some degree become exhausted by multiple opinions where nothing ever feels like it actually is what it is. I was sitting with Yeshiva uh a while ago. We were reading through um we're reading through uh the pukim the verses that were talking about Elijah the prophet being taken up and he says okay so this is like a midris so tell me what the real story I like I said no it's not a midress this is this is like and he keeps going no no no it's not the real story he's like what was the Indian what's the trying to he I just said this is this is the power of the god of Israel and and for him he just couldn't wrap his mind around this being a story so I I wanna I ask you, maybe you share the same sentiment, but we've talked about this lightly before, but I really think that the lack of learning Tanakh has caused a major um it has caused major damage in the area of Amuna. >> Of course, it's it's injured our marriage. Now, I wouldn't dare use words like that, but given that my rabbi, his name is Isaiah, Rabbi Yeshayahu, he's my chief rabbi. So, in Isaiah 54, he says he says that the your your husband is your maker. The Lord of hosts is his name. I mean, how do you not fall in love with that? >> So, look, you can have a good marriage, an okay marriage, but what about having a 10 marriage? I just can't wait to be home with my husband, right? >> I miss my wife so much. So, if you want to have the full marriage, now marriages can survive in a six or seven. Some do, >> but don't you want the 10? Don't you want all of it? Right? >> Let's think about Elijah if we would. First Kings chapter 18 and 19. >> Elijah, a great demonstration of the Lord's power on Mount Carmel. priest of Bal cutting themselves and dancing trying to bring down a fire and they failed. And then Elijah the prophet scolds the Jews and he asked them the question in verse 21 of chapter 18. How long would you halt between these these two opinions? Either choose God and follow him or choose Bal. And he's really saying what do you want? Like you choose God or choose Jesus. Like don't do Jews for Jesus. That was it because they were Jews for Bal back then. So he said, "How?" And and the sentence ends this way. It's the the passage ends this way and the the nation was silent. >> They didn't have an answer. >> That's right. >> And that's what you get sometimes in some circles where they don't give you a clear answer. And then there was this demonstration of God's power. Now the next day, >> so Akov goes back to his wife Jezebel, who was a nightmare. Women usually do good in the Bible better than men, but there are some nightmares. This and Jezebel Evil was a nightmare. She was a motherload of bad mamas. So, so she's smart. She was a no dummy. She goes back and tells her nervous husband, "Just give it another day. We'll see what happens." And that's what happens. By the next day, already Jews are going back to idolatry. Elijah comes to God and he says he said I'm paraphrasing he says the Jews they're all worshiping they're back in >> B >> and Hashem said I'm paraphrasing the Almighty blessed be his holy name says to Elijah a couple of things number one it's not the case there are 7,000 religious Jews that have not kissed his hand and number two is you're fired >> and the leash is taking over paraphrasing right why because he gave up on the Jews now I want to get high this this is how Jews get high. So, we're going to get high. >> So, Elijah, of course, was one of the greatest men that ever lived, >> right? >> But for a brief moment, he gave up on the Jews. So, Hashem said, "This is your destiny. You're actually not going to die, but rather your destiny is going to be the following. I want you to see that the Jews are going to continue and they have a future." And you for a moment thought they didn't have a future. So, you know what? You're going to come to every circumcision, every brisma. You're going to see that the bris the covenant continues. I want you to come to every Passover seder. Is it going to be a glass just for you? Just know the Jews are going to continue. And larger, one other thing I want you to do right before the Messiah comes. >> I want you to announce him. I want you to know larger that you're a man of God. You're an ish. But >> you kind of thought the Jews were done. They weren't. And therefore, you're coming to the burst. You're coming to the seder. You're coming to the messianic age and you're going to announce it. Bring about the redemption. Now, I ask you this, my brother. >> When you drink Nvi like this >> and you understand the picture, how could you not be in love with the God of Israel? How could you not fall at his feet? How could you not praise him? Says so. So, now >> we know that we are all We can't be sure, but it seems like we're very now close to the end. >> Absolutely. >> We're we're right there. That means not only we're close to the end, it's actually the messianic age is happening now. We're in the middle of this order of events that are unfolding before our eyes. Every day we wake up, we run to the news after we see Mudi and we go, "Holy smokes, I can't believe that just happened." Right? Okay. So, we know we're really right right at the end right now. >> So, therefore, it's so important for us to understand what's happening. What should we expect in the messianic age? What's unfolding for eyes right now? And therefore, have a full make sure that your marriage with God is not an eight. Could you survive as a seven in your marriage? Sure, you can. Marriages all the time do that. But you don't want that. And I would say this, and I know you would agree. If you take Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel out, who are people we love, >> you you don't you'll never get your 10. And we want I want all of it. I want the best possible marriage with the with the God of Israel. Of course. So that's what we're screaming for. Absolutely. >> That's amazing. So we had this discussion and at one point we were we got cut off and I don't think we ever aired one of these interviews and this and this is the question I wanted to ask you before and this is another very very hot topic especially seeing that we are at the end. I think you would agree with me because you obviously know biblical prophecy very well which is usually I would say esquetology is usually the starter for people who come in to Judaism whether as Noahites or as full converts they start to look at the the future of what the what what's taking place for the Jewish people and then >> they say wow I want to be a part of that ending that's a great ending I want to be a part of it >> so what happens is we are in Israel Today we have seen biblical prophecy come to life. We have seen Ezekiel and we have seen the revival of Israel. The streets of Jerusalem are inhabited again. There are now vegetation. There's one to till the ground. There's vegetation grow forth. And we see this. Even Rabbi Yol of Satma admits that this is a a clear sign of biblical prophecy. Even though he had a different uh way of handling it, he for sure has seen it. So even those who would be at opposition of the current statehood of Israel right now, however, one of the things that we saw and I and I I brought this up to you before is that the return of the exiles from Babylon by and large were not religious people. I mean, in fact, by the time Ezra comes, you know, there's, you know, hundred some odd men married to non-Jewish women. There's a whole gamut and these people are laying the bricks and foundation. >> This looks very similar to what we've just experienced now today. >> And I feel like the disconnect is that people are not looking cuz my my thing is like this. If after 2,000 years we were not or let's say first time first exile was 70 years. So we say 70 years of exile in in in in Babylon and the returning of the exiles after that. We did not warrant it with the same bells and whistles that we came in with Joshua with nothing. We didn't walk around in buildings. Jericho didn't fall down. None of that happened. We came back. It was a struggle. We fighting with the shonim and other people. There were piguim. There were terrorist attacks. There were other people. Samaritans will make our lives miserable. That's why the New Testament has a story of the good Samaritan in Luke because it's really an anti-Semitic story. Exactly. >> It's a horrible story, but every think, oh, good Samaritan sounds great. It's a terrible story. Is there to make the Jews look bad, >> right? Right. So, at the return, >> Yeah. >> you're dealing with all of these issues going on >> and and and by and large, like I said, the community there was not a religious community. So today, so if you fast forward 2,000 years, what are we expecting to come in on like you know the flying eagles and Mashia's going to come and we're going to make this like that's the way that this story is painted. >> Why you ask any Jew why you haven't moved to Israel? Oh, we're waiting on Mashiach. We're waiting on Mashiach. Oh no, we're waiting on Mashiach. You know, so I I have this question of I my my my issue is that I think that because they don't learn enough, they're not familiar with the story. They're not what's going on, right? And so there's a way to hide behind uh the the reason or the you know I don't know what it is fear of being in Israel accepting what's going on. I mean every place in in prophecy when you look when you look the Jews are already there >> right >> Gog of Magog happens if if I'm mistaken >> that's correct has to be war because there's war with Mashiach there's no war sir >> we need to unpack all this okay you know when Moses of blessed memory cried out to Hashem he he couldn't lead but he just wanted to go into Israel so everyone asked the question why did he want to go to Israel did he want to go to the beach and sit by the caner that he wanted to go and sit in Tel Aiv and enjoy the sunshine was a beautiful I'm not I don't live there but it's supposed to be beautiful. So the answer is no he want to be fulfilled commandments that are only connected to the land of Israel. So okay but you're absolutely correct as it turns out the book of Zachchariah is not an easy book. In fact it's the only book that Rashi ever wrote an introduction to. Imagine what Rashi wrote in his life. The only book he ever wrote introduction to is Zachariah. And he begins by saying I don't have a mur for Zachariah. Zechariah is difficult in short and he says it it's a difficult book and the reason is it begins with eight visions immediately vision it's not that complicated but it's a little difficult there is only one chapter that's very easy and if someone doesn't read Zechariah 12 God's going to ask you one day why didn't you because Zechariah 12 is very easy to follow the Jews must return back to the land of Israel as you pointed out when the Jewish people came to build the second temple a very small number returned we know exactly who they are because Ezar chapter 2 enumerates every names every family and gives the grand total of 42,360 Jews that moved from Bal Babylon into the land of Israel and most of them were not religious as you said they were marrying non-Jewish women Ezra chapter 10 they were eating non-cosha they were violating chabas now fine but why is that in the Bible why does scripture want us to know that the first Zionist who came to build the second temple under the order of a non-Jewish king. His name is Blefor. I mean Cyrus. Right. Cyrus says go back. Right. And 42,360 Jews go back. And the majority of them are not religious Jews. We don't know the exact number, but a lot of them were not religious Jew. 113 of them, we're told by name, married gaisha women in Ezra chapter 10. That doesn't mean those are the only ones. There was a n. But why is that in the Bible? Why is that in scripture? It's obviously all prophetic. It's all now in Zechariah 12, we're told that the Jews will return back to the land of Israel and then there'll be war. The Messiah is not here yet because when the Messiah comes, there'll be peace on earth. Nation will take their swords and spears and turn into plowshares and burning. What happens is then Jerusalem is liberated. We know from Daniel 8, it happens 2,300 years after the Greek Empire defeats the Persian Empire. That it correlates exact from the battle of Granicus till 67. It's exact. Now what happens is nations then come to attack Israel over Jerusalem and that will be the motherload of bad ideas. I will take the weakest of them and they'll be like David even the angel. The Messiah is not here. There's a Jewish state. There's a Jewish army and these Jews are weakened. It's Zechariah 12:9. There's very similar and behold days are coming sayeth the lord that I will destroy all those nations who come up against this. a very bad idea >> but there's a big trauma that occurs that means after that war Jerusalem is in our hands something happens where many people are killed >> and it causes a kalis the talm tells us in trackctate migill that this will happen on sukus >> because of this the ha we read on sukot on shabbat is the passage as you referred to in Ezekiel 38 and 39 gagog >> so Here we are, right? When I say we're at the edge. I'm not waxing romantic. I'm not trying to give our viewers, you know, some esoteric. It's right there in the Bible. Just people don't read it. It's right in their face. And then what happens is once the Jewish people are united because of this hatred, this burning inexplicable. We can't understand anti-semitism. It's inex. It doesn't make sense. Everyone's trying to You can't figure it out because it's supernatural. That's why the non-Jews can't figure out that why is it that Jews like you and me when we face ridiculous anti-semitism. It just makes us stronger. Our faith is strengthened by why? Cuz we read in the hag though in every generation will rise up to kill you. But I'm going to save you. So actually if everyone started loving us, we'd start to doubt our faith. Wait, what? Hey, wait. The Bible says that every generation they're going to hate your guts for no reason. You can have people like Sulk inventing the polio vaccine. You could do all these win third and Nobel Prize and they're going to hate your Gus. Therefore, if Gam wanted us to lose our faith, stop hating us and we oh wait one second. So it's a fulfillment of scripture and then there's an octas in Clay unity in Clay and that's where we are. I believe right now I just say I believe right now we're right there at the edge. But if someone if someone is not intimate with his wife, >> he doesn't have to come bring her flowers. Why do you have to bring your wife flowers? >> She'll not going to divorce you if you don't bring her flowers before Shabbat. >> But she makes her love you more. So bring your husband, the God of Israel, the flowers. Juicen up your marriage without fall before him. Praise him alone. Bow before him alone. Isaiah 45. Don't let anyone Jesus, Mary, and the saints get between. And again to the Christians who are listening, I know I have just offended you and I regret that. I don't want to. But I also know that you don't want applesauce. I know you don't want me to f I say this to every Christian listening. If you're a Jew, if you're a Muslim, if you're an atheist, I'm not talking to you right now. But if you're a Christian, I have a sneaking suspicion that you just want it straight. And that's what I'm going to do. Okay? You don't want to be a secondass citizen where we have to fluff it up. So I say let's go back to the Bible. Let's go back to scripture and let's bow before the God of Israel. We're right at the end now and that's why people are coming in. You know why would you convert to Judaism now? 80 years ago they just wiped out onethird of the Jews. We're radioactive. Everyone hates our guts. They just YouTube is just basically it's a nightmare still the craziest stuff in the world. So, but they're coming back and we can't block them. You can't even get into a conversion program now. And that's why they're saying >> I want to hold I'm not letting go. And please God, we will see the coming of the true Messiah Ba quickly in our time when the words of Zephaniah who lived here uh in Israel said that all the nations speak in a pure speech. Zephaniah 3:9 saf very very much so very powerful Rabbi Singer. I really appreciate you. I have an infinite amount of questions. I'm probably going to bug you with off camera. >> Maybe we'll do it again on camera. No, they're going, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, stop it. Hey, stop it. Let's do it on camera." >> It just every time every time it's beyond amazing. >> It's because see what some Christians don't It's because I respect that I'm willing to talk to them this way. Of course, that's the point. >> Cuz I because I know they It's cuz I respect them. If I really thought that they were secondass citizens, then I would say, "What's the point? I'm not going to teach trigonometry to a dog. They're not going to get it. That's the whole point. The point is you're a Christian. You could do it. >> That's amazing. So, listen. Powerful powerful interview. I really really appreciate you taking the time to be here and to come all the way from Jerusalem to be here to be here. Listen, but I I want to I want to just I want to say to you, you know, thank you for everything that you're doing. Really, it's been a powerful thing. And I not only thank you on my behalf, but the many people that you're helping and many those that you will uh continue to help. Uh more than like I said even that how straight how whatever it is. I think there's a a critical point right now which which we just most recently touched on for Jews and for non-Jews alike, right? Um is that there there has to be a deepening of that relationship between us and Hashem with nothing in between. Right? So one of the biggest things for me was that I had to realize that there are things in the way of my relationship with Hashim. I told people everything my heart was ablazed. I was looking for for God and anything that looked like it was in the way got the boot, right? Anything. It didn't matter what it was. And I threw out even my music career because I it was in the way. Anything that was in the way. I stopped watching the Seahawks. I mean, so I feel so bad. I stopped watching the Seahawks and then they won the Super Bowl that year. So, it was good for me that I stopped watching them. But I, you know, I gave up things that were precious to me in my life to follow after God. And one thing that I I will say is that I wasn't running from I was running to something. I wasn't running from, I was running to. And anything that got in the way had to move. And I think that I think one of the most powerful things is what you what you've expressed here is looking at the relationship between us and Hashem as a marriage. This is the way the Tanakh sees the way the Navi sees it. Ways way that the book of Isaiah sees it. This is a marriage between us and God. >> Yeah. >> We shouldn't have anything in between that. It should be us and him. >> Yeah. I I I want to sweetheart, I want to say this to you. you make I just so when you hear a rabbi say something Ram Nman of blessed memory he didn't invent a new religion right >> right you know the the BMT he didn't invent a new not allowed to not allow all they're able to do and what we're trying to do really is just encapsulate the ideas of the prophets of blessed memory these are the greatest men and women that ever lived and that's what was doing and just conveying in a way that people can understand he wasn't inventing anything we are not allowed to add to the Bible nor take it away. Deuteronomy 4:2. So all these great when we talk about great rabbis be very careful. They're not inventing a new religion. Of course that's forbidden. But they are gifted and they're able to encapsulate an idea in a way that people can understand. And Nissim, you keep doing what you're doing. I'm so proud of you. And I am I say to you with my head a little low. And that is I'm I'm very envious of you. But I love you very very very much. >> Likewise. Love is mutual. Thank you, Rabbi. Thank you so much. Thank you. >> All right. >> If you enjoyed this program, please like and subscribe. [Music] [Applause] [Music]