Nachum Segal Book Interview 2 9 2025

okay well good morning everyone happy Sunday happy Super Bowl Sunday or as not my pun but not's pun happy super book Sunday as Friday I was I was blown away with that this morning as the second Sunday of the farm sale we are privileged to have in conversation Mal seagull and Rabbi Dr Ari Lam speaking about n's new book 1.8 million minutes in counting over 40 years of radio broadcasting on uh on the Jewish world and Rabbi Dr LM is the co-founder and president of Soul Shop Studios looking to engage and interact the Gen Z audience for um for Jewish digital media content so without further Ado they have much more interesting things to say than I do but it is my privilege to introduce them for us this morning thank you br good morning well I'm really excited to be here um we have uh we have done something like this before and I'm going to try to make sure there's zero overlap so uh no no cheating from last notes but I'm fortunately I'm here with a guest where I know there will be zero overlap in the story so I hope so I'm just thinking does that me I can't tell some my best stories again uh there there as the book is called 1.8 million minutes in counting there is so much material there's I mean in our last conversation we covered maybe 1% and I'm excited to get to 2% in this conversation thank you um so just uh over chabas I was uh at Min with a friend of mine who came to me out of nowhere he didn't know that we were speaking and he said you know it's funniest thing I was just talking to my dad and I was going through his uh High School yearbook you know's in his high school yearbook SE and I was like oh tell me more I'm speaking to him tomorrow she said you know his nickname was stretch and I said I'm almost positive that that was the name of his first show s with stretch so can you give us a sense of you know before the JM and the am before the nakam seagull Network before the you know major phenomenon that we all know and love now where did this all begin appreciate that and uh ironically enough and that's why this morning is so special for me it began right here this entire career and everything I've written about so far and that I continue to enjoy every single day all started from half a block South from here which is now a parking lot you I'm sure when you were an undergrad knew it as a parking lot but we knew it as a building that was a combination of the dramatic society and the radio station and someone asked me on the way up here today they said uh what did you major in in college I said well officially sociology but honestly I just lived at the radio station the entire time so I guess I majored in radio but there was no official Major um and then what happened was and and this this story is well documented but it's a reality I'm standing half a block from here excuse me in a line excuse me in a line trying to apply to get a radio show on the radio in those days remember it's not like now radio was was was such an exclusive um not not exclusive meaning like an exclusive Club but it was it was such a unique uh project such a unique um aspect of campus life here and radio stations in General on college campuses were so you know interesting and diverse and unique and active it's it's very different today so I'm standing on a really long line to apply for a show because my mother as I mentioned in the book you know said she thinks I would enjoy this type of thing and um you know I'm filling it out the application everybody including myself wants a rock and roll music show and some guy says to me who's standing online with me says what did you apply for I said a rock and roll show and he says oh boy I said well what's wrong he says well if you apply for a rock and roll show you have like a 40% chance of getting a show if you apply for a Jewish music show you have 100% chance of doing show took out my pencil immediately knew nothing about Jewish music finance major that's Arbitrage opportunity right there say that so uh I applied for a Jewish music show became simple with stretch on Thursday nights Thursday nights had this unique atmosphere on the Yu K because there weren't many people around right they either had gone home or they're out but those who were around that small Niche they you know needed something to do you know were a little looser with their schedule and their studies so they would gravitate toward listening to was literally you know you could turn on your radio and listen through the campus transmitter so that's how it all started I did a couple of years of that I became a board member and then actually general manager of the of the W radio station and then the greatest coincidence if there's such a thing in life occurred when uh WFMU at the time which had a morning Jewish music show they were desperately looking for somethingone to take it over thinking that it was just going to die out and it wouldn't be there anymore for the community and somebody gentleman's named Norman ler of blessed memory decided to call Yu saw in the directory or heard in the directory that there was a position called director of Student Activities dean of students the great Larry Waxman and he calls Larry who picks up the phone and Larry was a uh a tremendous um mentor of mine he said I'll have someone for you in 20 minutes and sure enough that's what happened it all happened right here all this magic I just described happened right at that's why this morning when I am steing at a table that says featured titles and they're taking a picture of me with this book I'm like wow this is so mindblowing why you FM still you know right in the center of where this all began so I uh you know speaking of Larry Waxman and from one great educational institution to another um you know often times when people come up to me and they say you know I know your father so I say is this under the C marha category or other category atory CU it's all cam so what is the you know I think when when people think about the rise of nakam seagull you know those who know know that uh that Yu plays a formative role in it but what's the influence that c marha has on on on you as a performer on you as a teacher on you as a as a radio personality and on the entire Endeavor that's right well the marot piece was um again once my mother put the suggest because it happened era of me going to be a sta member of K Mara she said when you get to Mara you're going meet a lot of guys from Wu I hear every radio station I think it's something you'd enjoy I never would have thought of it beforehand but she was brilliant enough to know her son very well and um I get to to Mara and I just you know I start speaking to people about the campus experience and what it's like not just the radio station but everything and it all sounds so amazing to me and so incredible I think I in fact I think Larry was shocked when in September he saw me Yu in 1981 like I'd been there for the summer and he knew that I was enjoying being part of the KRA but I think he was shocked that I actually had decided to you know to come here as an undergrad and um and I think that that's what the camp experience was for me you know Mara has its own unique many things we can discuss about how great it is uh but um I think that's what it was for me just that I really gravitated toward the and got this incredible impression of what was going on on this campus so you really come of age as a you know radio personality as Talk Radio in general nationally is becoming a massive and massive massively influential phenomenon um you know the fairness Doctrine goes the way of the dodo you know as you are you know you know as this era and it enables this era so as this era is growing you actually meet Rush limbo for the first time uh in New York City in 1988 at moshing I believe and uh you remember moshing I I heard the stories um so how does that how does the wider um The Wider culture of what's happening on radio at the time influence the way you think about it well there's no question that you know being at the right place at the right time being part of the golden era of radio and I know that some would argue that there was a golden era in the mid 20th century and there was to an extent and certainly radio was very influential and Powerful but there was just something about as you say the talk radio and all the different formats that were being featured at that time around the country and the influence was obvious I mean rush and many others you know started to have this incredible effect uh on government officials and on the community leaders and on uh certainly the world of entertainment etc etc and then some of them he more than anybody was able to blend all of those together you know he was entertaining and could become part of pop culture and comment on pop culture the same way he was able to incorporate politics and government isip so um so I enjoyed that era um and its growth and frankly unlike today where you know the the the ears are you know have many many options and uh listenership is very very fractured I mean know that's obvious to everybody and we play a very different role than we did back then but in those days we were really an essential source for people to obtain information that never have have gotten anywhere else you know people today still say uh especially in my generation you know they'll say to their spouse they'll you know the spouse will say how did you hear about this well you don't listen to JMM so how would you know in those days it was really true every mazeltov wish every community calendar announcement every you know development of news from Israel every featured guest who had you know an important book or an important you know opinion to state that came on the air that was true I mean the most obvious example of this is when schma kbach passed away I would have to imagine not completely because not everyone's listening to me directly but through the ripple effect of JM am he do in a Thursday night we announced it early Friday morning from the ripple effect of JM the am I can't imagine what percentage of the Jewish World knew about it because we had reported his demise so yeah that was quite an era I want to come back to like some of those key moments in in just a bit but I I wanted to move into something more focused on you so one thing that struck me reading the book is you have these amazing pictures I mean the whole it's it's it's um and I I will say even as I've kind of grown older and and and reading has become such a source of Joy I've not lost my enthusiasm for picture books um so this is this is great even for that reason but one thing that struck me is every you know for every picture you have with you and a celebrity or you and a famous Jewish musician or you and a you know president or a prime minister there are three pictures with you and your children and it I think you know when when people say uh uh you know a budget for example reflects your priorities how you spend your money reflects your priorities or you know the way you uh you know if you're a sports fan uh like I know we both are um when you're a GM you know uh who you hire and who you bring on really reflects your priorities it's it seemed to me that those pictures really reflected your priorities and one of the things that uh a listener you know any longtime listener to to you will know is that your family is an indelible part of the personality that you bring to this entire um this entire show and one thing that that I didn't realize and that I I learned reading the book is that actually some of your your major personal Milestones both tragic ones and joyful ones are directly intertwined with with the show and I I was particular particularly struck um I was particularly struck by the episode where you have your father on um and so so you know and you lose your father shortly after that as a that day so can you you talk a little bit about how uh first of all I that story is incredibly powerful incredibly powerful I mean I was I'm I'm a crier people know me I'm a crier but I was crying reading that chapter um can you talk about how you have thought about um the growth of your family and your connection to family as you've as you've gone through this career there are a couple of points first of all again in 2025 not everybody would get this radio is such an intimate medium yeah and if you're going to speak to people especially in a niche Community like ours a niche audience like mine if you're going to speak to people on a daily basis it would be almost almost impossible right everyone has a different personality almost impossible to not include the audience a in your discussions about family to not include your family in discussions with the audience is always you know unless again you have the discipline to completely keep it separate um but in my world the free form radio you know without any executive producers let's put it that way you know I had no reason to do that if I felt that something should be mentioned or that uh you know a milestone especially a positive Milestone should be acknowledg and certainly I'm going to do it but one of the one of the most brilliant um uh inscriptions that anybody I have a policy I don't know you don't I think I share this you want I have a policy I don't keep any books I don't keep anything you told me this yeah but if it's a book get inscribed to me it is kept that's the policy what's going to happen eventually I don't know we're gonna have to see what happens event but that's my policy so I have some incredible inscriptions so uh we have this both a running joke and a tradition in our house as the kids were growing up I would say in their teenagers they were getting older the one of the sources of our darvar Torah on chabas would be Sian rahav mayor's book that was it okay and we would always you know I would do a big introduction became this family joke etc etc so when I met her I said to her I just need you to know that this is what happens in my in my house every shabas like you need to know and she was of course flattered and she thought it was hilarious and we spoke about it anyway she signs her book to me and she writes T nak remember the real show is is on chabas that's amazing that's great and I'm like if anybody has ever encapsulated what the most important thing in our lives is with all our accomplishments you're a very accomplished fellow nothing's more important than family absolutely nothing and that's the that's the number one priority and it's not always easy to juggle it it's not easy to do it you know there there are challenges TimeWise and otherwise but at least to remind everybody that it's the most important thing you know this I I think it's in the book because people were speaking to me about it the um I once said uh I once said on the air I love you to my wife so we had two reactions to it one was how how terrible that in a public environment you would go ahead and say something like that to your and the other one was from women who called me some who I knew I saw and said thank you for what you just did because my husband now has no excuse to say that he can't open tell me that he loves me so you know these so these types of things are are really important to me the funny thing is as you bring up about the pictures and stuff I you know I don't know if every family's like this and I don't know if every father goes through this but when you have thank God a wonderful collection of sons and a wonderful collection of daughters so there's always you know some conflict uh you know is uh this is a very sexist house and you know the boys overrule the girls and the girls don't get a chance for this it's that no matter what you do or say or demonstrate you're never going to win the battle at least in my opinion so what did I do on the book I made sure that the only children on the cover of the book would be my two daughters so that forever they can acknowledge that and make sure to uh to realize that uh that they got Prime real estate so I actually had that as a question as a girl as a girl dad I clocked it and appreciate it that's funny that's good um so I you know one of the uh one of the things you think about if if you love music I have I love love love love music music in general there are Landmark moments in music history 1938 spirituals to swing concert at Carnegie Hall all black musicians playing in front there's Woodstock in ' 69 there's the Beatles at sha stadium in the 70s um for Jewish music there's uh there shy mlitz and ding putting on you know bringing Jewish music to Lincoln Center in 1988 and you actually locate that as the the the moment when Jewish music kind of makes that leap into the public Consciousness because a lot of things happened that night first of all yeah what was that what was first of all they actually proved that people are leaving to are willing to leave Brooklyn and other Jewish areas to come to Manhattan for show which was a big leap in 1988 trust me um that's number one number two they were willing to pay a minimum of 50 bucks a ticket which in 1988 is and believe me there were that many $50 seats available trust me so they were willing to prove people willing to do that and uh and also to utilize Jewish music to support a really important cause remember that concert which they thought was going to be a one-off was there just to save the C that's what it was there for the government helped TK all through the year they were not ready to give grants for the summer program the community was made aware of the fact through Shia and Mortal K and David that this Camp is going to close if they don't have the funding and they took a risk that people you know if they're given a good night of music are going to respond you know with generous donations and that's what happened and a lot of people you know from many different communities stepped up and yeah that was a um and just the atmosphere you know Lincoln sent there was um there's something about it you know the boxes the lighting the the Acoustics the um even the massive doors just to just to walk from backstage to the stage you have to wait for a couple of guys to open these massive doors which is you know so elegant it's so beautiful um and yeah so that night was definitely a game changer so let's get into it you have been a I mean one of the driving forces behind the rise and popularity of Jewish music and I think I kind of think you know like when you think of of great musicians so or when you think of great fixtures of any musical industry so pop music you have great musicians you have the the lenons and McCartney but then you also have the you know the great band leaders who some of whom didn't even play an instrument at all if K Kaiser you know is one of the bestselling music Ians ever in American history didn't play a single instrument um so and then you have the disc jockeys like you have the DJs who just drive popular taste and you're one of those figures you're maybe the figure in that respect so if you are this may be impossible for you to do but I'm going to push you if you had to make the Mount Rushmore of Jewish musicians or bands or whatever it is who were like the top for who goes on the Mount Rushmore of Jewish music in your career well I mean to be fair this is a question I normally wouldn't answer because I don't think it's fair for me to be put in that position but to be fair how could you not include M David and a freed only because between their longevity and their popularity and their mental kite yeah they they've been there from day one at a certain point you're LeBron playing at a very high level for 20 years correct so you know LeBron's going to be on M rmore you know that's the obvious I'm trying to think who I would put in the third and fourth positions I mean I personally would have to put kach because of his influence um and a fourth that fits into that the the truth is I'd have to put AB Rottenberg there wow and it's not just the performances he's had such a ripple effect on so much of the industry uh people write a certain way because of him people perform a certain way because of him people take seriously what they're saying through music because of him it's a great pick and that's uh you know so he deserves to be there and thank God there's only four um and when it comes to the DJs look again I think I was very lucky that I was in a certain era you know America was was very very focused on Wolf manjack and and um and cousin Brucey and a million other really solid music DJs who helped promote you know secular music throughout the country and I think that I was at the right place at the right time for this in in the 1960s and 70s I don't think you could have convinced a Jewish high school student to spend any time listening to Jewish music how do I know cuz I was one of them when the 1980s and 990s roll around the legendary I'm sure you've heard of her uh Mrs Newman of blessed memory from Brea is saying something to me that you made it cool for Jewish teenagers to listen to Jewish music now first of all if that's true then that's got to be worth some points up there anyway who grew up when I grew up that was JM and the am was our Avenue into it so and and it made it very comfortable in car pools during an era when to listen to news reports about you know different things was very sensitive to say the least I me there certain scandals we can you know including the presidency the90s um so that was very important and what was I going to say so right so Mrs new made that statement and the and they found I mean you made it cool to listen to Jewish music like made it I think that it was a um it was just the right time for it oh but that's what I wanted to say in my own home and I'm sure that till today this still goes on in my own home I always used to say that the musical atmosphere is different Monday through Wednesday than Thursday and Friday Monday through Wednesday my kids could have a regular secular radio station on and you know and be up on all the all the all the women and men I am not familiar with you know in terms of Music Thursday and Friday you don't have an opinion on the Kendrick versus Drake B okay no I would sound like a fool if I commented on that but um oh but Thursday and Friday all all of a sudden if you paid careful attention to my living room and listen to what's going on in their bedrooms Aon cats aming scho cats K and God forbid in our home if an hour before shabas someone dared to turn off Aon cat till the last minute you got that's the you have to listen to arage music until cand lighting time and that was to me that was just I don't know I again you know you see you know where my career started and you know where we're sitting so the blending of many worlds is really important to someone like me that to me is just uh incredible that the soundtrack of Life Changes depending on the you know on the upcoming religious days I'll tell you why by the way AB rber is such a great pick because I I remember even just listening to like the Journey albums he's laying out like a hashkafa and I think the closest thing anyone has ever articulated to my hashkafa is the JY I was like someone once said to me you know what do you think of this of these English Jewish ballads or I asked them and their answer was their answer was it's AB Rottenberg light AB Roden light I love it meaning no one's ever going to be a it's sort of like I what I always say no one's ever going to be kbach but if anybody was ab's got 5% of it like he's the only one that's got a you know part of it and his messaging through these songs you even the simple songs you you go he'll argue with you about Journeys 3 you know about whether there's actually good you know the messages are really done well in that in those songs or not you know we've had discussions about it but uh but but what he's able to do through those songs is absolutely remarkable I mean it's it's it's it's amazing to think like he has so much of it is ahead of its time he has the influences ofus like he's anticipating nius by by decades so you have from you have all the you have all of the storytelling you have Zionism right but but and you have like a a sort of like a common sensical religious Zionism you have your shalim you have what you're looking for is right there at your door you know you have the you have the the you have KIRO stuff in it you have a sensibility you have uh appreciation for sports like you have the kind of the just great again Common Sense morality baseball Joe deio was nth man he also took on topics that in those days remember the first Journeys is 1984 in those days no one's talking about the crisis he makes a song about it in those days no one's talking about those who Trav to India to try to find themselves he writes and sings about and it's a very powerful song so you know yeah he he's definitely ahead of his time I'd also say he's a product of a certain era I don't know if somebody you know who grew who grows up today just like normal from right can grasp the the things that he's talking about so true somebody who you know he's he's you know 60s and 70s that's that that's where he's you know being developed and I think it's only someone from that era again you know you know I I think most people would be so afraid and hesitant oh yeah to write there's no place like home the song about you know traveling to find oneself they'd be so you know they worry about what people will say and how it's going to be taken how it be accepted not accepted even and I don't know if it's important today he demonstrated that he even has like like an astonishing ecumenicism like the atheist convention he has he takes seriously not just the Jewish guy but the Muslim guy and the Christian guy like he's taking them seriously it's like wild stuff I'm looking at ZK cuz we have a non-jewish friend whose favorite song was the atheist convention and yeah it's such an important that's a song that anybody of any background could listen to and like oh yeah like you know and you have non-jewish listenership like we'll get to that in a little bit I want to stay I want to stay on Jewish music for just a little bit one thing that that really strikes me as um as a core interest of yours is like when you think about Jewish music so for several decades it is you know there there is an Israeli tradition but it's of music but I uh you know but but it's very like either khim folk songs or you know people who spent some time in Israel but they're Americans and you know everybody is inevitably like even people who are based in Israel and see themselves as Israeli ass social but you mentioned Aton cat scho cats they're very influenced by schak um at a certain point and I can't exactly pinpoint when but at sometime in the last couple years it felt like and it feels like in a wonderful way there's kind of been a shift in the center of gravity towards Israel where now the major acts who are doing wonderful things is ISO Akiva even Omar Adam to you know is is bringing a whole different tradition and so how have you experienced that shift well first of all all the people you just mentioned would never have been on my show 5 10 years ago right right they would have been almost undiscoverable certainly right I would never have understood the hype with which they're being accepted in Israel but I think this all comes down to I talk about you know business school I think it comes down to a really practical thing and that is that today when someone finishes recording a song in Israel 10 minutes later it is in everybody's phone around the world that's true now I don't mean everybody meaning they're not trying to sell it and distribute it you proper streaming channels but I know in my case because of my position you know our music department I I can walk in tomorrow morning and there'll be 10 new downloads you know that have come from Israel and um and they've UND they've always understood the importance of the American Market they've but they never knew how to reach it I got to hire a distributor a publicist someone who knows how to how to call this guy n seagull like they never nobody understood the today it's like you know 10 minutes later the entire distribution is done so I think that that practical element is important and look the um the other thing is and this was um predicted by my late friend mayor Ward who I write about in the book years ago and that is that the yeso effect the fact that there would be somebody who and and again happens to be from Israel who's able to reach from a nonform people with the same music is mind buug that's wow that he predicted it I thought he was a little bit too all in on it but he ended up being completely right and now of course the other names you mentioned are the same thing I mean you know the Madison Square Garden thing I could sit here till till tomorrow analyzing why you know why it did what it did in terms of selling out with is shaio and whether that's an aberation or not you know this we we can do that at the sh table next time I see you but the most important performances are on Shas you say that again that's where the real show is um but um but I think that the the incredible bridge that they have been able to create between from and non and Israel diaspora and whatever other elements you want to toss into it has been a real game changer in Jewish music it's amazing cuz I I remember growing up my mom used to laugh mom's from Cleveland and she used to say remember when Yehuda exclamation point was huge so she's like I knew the chick boys they were bids all of a sudden they're singing o now it's the opposite you have like morai Shapiro all of a sudden has an Israeli accent you know because the influence of a lot of this is and it's not just Mor Shapiro it's yobi and many others it is unbelievable but this is also you know it's so funny I think about some of the different what was one of the biggest battles I always fought early on in my career uh there were certain issues that were I mean Kisha is always an issue Zionism is always an issue you there always issues now 40 years later people know exactly who I am say make less of these issues whenever I would play a song in the 1980s with shame Hashem the phones blew up how dare you today I played the entire o y year on Friday which had shame sh no one said you word because people are used to the fact that these artists they literally are using Sham hasem in so many songs and and people are used to it plus the element that were never the ones that complain about it they always felt it was fine the ashaz were like you know the briskers couldn't handle it you know so um I'm trying to remember what you asked me well you know it's just like there's this kind of like you know the Israeli directional influence that used to go from there to here and now it seems to go and I'll tell you something you know I always made a big deal it's one of the things I wrote about in the book that I felt before October 7th I was really on the bandwagon since 2008 since that economic downturn I was always on the bandwagon that now instead of a diaspora jury depending on Israel Israel's instead of Israel depending on diaspora jury diaspora jur is now going depend on Israel I was so so sad that I was so wrong after October 7th that's just not the case and it's and not a bad thing it's just a sad thing that the reality is that we had an obligation to have to do God knows how many things in order to help prop up our brothers and sisters Israel post October 7th but this influence the Musical one that didn't change that's still now as you say coming more directly from there to here than from here over overseas I want just because you mentioned the uh user feedback that you get the the structure of the book which I loved is that it really is built around user feedback that you get and one of the best recurring bits in the book is you'll have an email where someone writes you this really like passionate verging on Angry email about how what you're doing is a disgrace and then the next email is from someone who's like keep doing it I love it it's made my day you changed my life I'm from because of this thing and H how how have how has your interaction with your listeners and your audience you know shaped how you are as a radio personality and how do you understand the different pockets and segments of your radio audience how do you balance them you know there's a chapter how would you like your show yeah and it's everybody thinks that it's their show to mold however they want um look the the I used to have a folder in the 1980s called hate mail that was the folder right we got real letters and that and by the way none of those are in the book Because if you think some of these are bad those are really really bad um so I I think it I think I honestly think it was the volume that was able to keep me sayane in other words I took every letter and interaction and feedback very seriously and to Heart and you know how it is you know you take things a lot less seriously at 35 than at 25 I was doing this in my 20s and like you know say to myself oh my God am I as bad as this listener thinks I am but I think the volume you know we had a lot of really positive stuff going on we had the fundraising Marathon which elicited a lot of positive comments so that was very very helpful in getting through all that um listen to interaction it's funny a lot of times I'll speak to somebody who's really upset about something and then when you speak to them you see they're not that you know they're they're not upset they they point of view they wanted to get across and you know 99% of the other stuff they don't uh you know they enjoy Ed cot used to say that if you agree with 90% if you agree with 90% of what I of what I say you're normal if you agree with 100% you're insane so you know I I think that's sort of the same thing um now the immediate response and feedback app comments texts emails it's a completely different for ball game I mean I had a I had an episode oh gosh it must be were we married yet I don't remember um where I I made a derogatory comment about how we are overmedicating our children in regard to someone asking if Ridin was K of P do you remember this yeah so the everyone went crazy I mean everyone went crazy I had not only did I have to go on the next day with a disclaimer but I literally had to speak to I don't know 30 35 listeners that were you know completely um affected by what I said talk about influence and then on top of that we had to do an interview the following week explaining you know why so many children and adults you know need medications that etc etc so you know you you never know I once I once had situation where where the person doing our yiva league sports report now you know how serious this could be yiva League Sports May made the following statement they ran up the score against the other team I was required in order to get back in good graces of this Yeshiva very powerful Yeshiva in the Yeshiva League I was required to get on the air the next day and explain that we didn't mean run up the score we were trying to tell everybody that they're so powerful a team that they you know dominated and routed them so you know I I actually I I said I said jokingly to a friend mind is like the worst thing that ever happened to yiba League Sports is Ryan Terrell why because it used to be when our kids would be like we have to have lessons and we have to play every single day and we have to be like what are you going to do make it to the NBA oh was that funny now Terrell is here and we're like well I don't know that's Jacob Stein that's same thing so so um the so I want to transition one thing that's that's fascinating about your book is that you you can think of JM and the am and actually this this is um I think implicit in the transition from JM being Jewish music to being Jewish moments is you know originally and this is how your career starts you're a you're a dis jockey you know playing music and you're talking about stuff around it but you're you're a musical figure right what is amazing as you dig back into the archives of the show is you become the voice for a community and certainly to a community that's narrating basically several decades worth and continuing to narrate several decades worth of Jewish history and and world history um and one of the things I found most interesting was you know of course you expect nakam seagull to have something to say about major events in the Jewish world or major events in Israel but what was so um amazing was to see how many incredible events in American National History or in New York history you were an essential voice on whether it was the World Trade Center attacks but you know one that stuck out to me was you play a role in deciding the Giuliani dinkin election yeah that was no question about it so how what what was that like that particular election and how did that help you think about the role you play whether you like it or not in in the political role when David hinley of the Daily News asked me what's it like being you know going through this whole process I said I don't know I have a microphone it seems everybody wants it you know it's quite a feeling everyone's fighting over my mic uh like a guy in the steth who had the safer tow R it's like well you want a minion very good very good so yeah that was um I mean that particular episode was just and say first of all it's a campaign so it lasts for weeks it's not like it's you know an EP an incident that a few days later it's gone this is just building up and everyone's on one side from the Jewish representation of their campaign going how dare dare you how dare you put on the and everyone on the other side was how dare you you know hey I don't know what you want guys I'm just you know you're getting the same treatment as Seinfeld like they have to record two different episodes one with Giuliani one with D at the end of the very good so um yeah that was that was that was unique and that was uh really cool obviously and what was interesting about it you and this is what you're pointing out is the Jewish Community swung the election yeah now giuliani's guys were really angry when we would say that to him after the election he because that they felt like they owed us and they felt like you know they got to be there for the community a 50,000 votes but it's a lot of votes and it was a really contentious race in a lot of very interesting Jewish neighborhoods not just Brooklyn everywhere in the city and I mean he can't look I mean there were events everywhere there were Town Halls that some of which I hosted there were uh you know I remember during one of the campaigns visits to Staten Island to synagogues and visits to Brooklyn and Queens like this was always a very big big um a a very big constituency and it still is obviously a very influential one I was I was the other day I was um as an aside just because it's funny in my opinion um I happen to speak to Anthony Weiner and uh I I I really do feel bad for what has happened to him because I felt he was one of the best guys in the world of government not everybody agrees with me I get it but I I I I'm still in touch with him and he's running NAA city council and frankly I wish him the best of luck and all right anyway so um I said to him I said' one of the best stories happened with you say what are you talking about he I said I was sitting in a dinner at the Young Israel of not the Young Israel of congregation in queed I'm sitting at the dinner congregation in queed and I'm minding my own business and they're making speeches and he because he's the congressman in that District walks in he sees me so he comes over has the speeches going on he comes over and he looks at me and he goes tell me what is this a one state crowd a two State crowd so I I reminded him about I said I prepared you for that speech I told you exactly what you need to say so yeah there's been a lot of uh a lot of crossover into the world of politics that's for sure but what's amazing is you know I think the temptation of a lesser person in your seat would have been to both sides everything and there are times where you get you you know you you but I think julani think it was both sides everything it was but what's what's you and it was and you actually go out of your way to kind of educate your audience you're like I just want you to know what's happening so you're bringing on people from both sides and you describe in the book um you know how you do that on several occasions what was fascinating about about uh about dingens Giuliani though is that you don't hide in the book that there were real problems under dinkin for the Jewish Community specifically for the Jewish community that needed to be addressed and one thing I I one thing I've Loved about your show over the years is that you want to educate your audience but you also don't hide your opinions when it's important so you're not shy about your Zionism you're not shy about particularly where you fit on the spectrum of Zionism you're not you know what I mean like you you know what perspective 2024 might prove your point yeah because in 1988 we actually had I don't know how many shows about the now who would it have been it would have been Bush versus help me out folks Bush was it Bush Gore 88 first first Bush you're talking about 88 was Bush Gore was Bush no no it wasn't Bush Gore it was can't believe I don't remember this this is unbelievable I don't remember this um anyway yeah bush dakus Bush lakus it was Bush lakus we had so many shows with people coming on from the community about both candidates in 2024 do you think I could have done one show about other candidates yeah I'm with it is a different world in the Jewish world and I think that that might prove the point that in those days it was much easier or important to do it and now I don't know if it's even worthwhile you know my I remember my my grandfather Shel once telling me um that the two favorite people he ever met uh in his career because you know he you know given his position and his and his personality he met so many wonderful people the two people that I met in my life I was most excited to me were the two people that I believe the only two people I've ever met he said who I believe loved every single Jewish person no matter who they were the laab jbi and makan um and I and I you have had you know a career like that where you've just not just you know been in the room at a Kana dinner but you've actually really spent serious time meeting with and speaking with some of the most important people who've shaped human history and Jewish history from presidents to Prime Ministers to generals um you have an amazing picture with matore in the the book what what were what was the best or one of you know or some of the most you know impactful people that you met who made a a rosham on you uh among those who are no longer with us do you know who I would put in that category Joseph Gru wow Joseph Gru who I had the opportunity to spend two long sessions with I was 20 years old and he heard me speak somewhere as a 20-year-old and thought I was some Superstar I got to give the guy credit you and he he we got together occas on two occasions in his office just to discuss he wanted to discuss my future he um we discussed Jewish Education you know talk about love he he put his money where his mouth is he loved Jewish youth Jewish Education and Jewish future maybe not exactly the way we portray theba but among those who are a living and I'm sure so many people watching this would agree with me Rabbi grman wow he you know that my one of my sons told me the other day we were we were together in mcdal ACH I think it was 2010 2011 it was their seventh grade trip to Israel and I think you were there GK and we spent the day with him what an experience the love everyone has for him the love he has for everybody else you know when I see him and which is what every five years he treats me as if he's been waiting six months in that very spot till I got that's how that's how you know which is unbelievable to be to be made to feel that way so those are two of the names that come to mind there I'm sure there's so many others do you ever have any moment on air that was just totally unex do you know I I always say any question that starts with did it ever or did you ever after 40 years he answerers yes do you know that I was doing an interview with an author I think it was by Sutton about six months ago and as I'm doing the interview over the phone a bird flies into my studio and I turn to a friend of mine in the building and I say do you know that I think this is a first I don't think this has ever happened before I could you imagine I had to continue the interview while at the same time trying to figure out how to get this thing out it was so crazy so surreal but yeah that's one of the great things about may as well just interview the bird I this is one of the great things about my about what I do that you never know what's going to happen next that's amazing and that's the reality and um and that's you know both for good and for bad I um you know when when the show is ending we hear bad news God forbid a terrorist attack in Israel you know I have a general manager who who uh did a show every Wednesday morning after me and so 911 was on a Tuesday so uh in those days in 2001 I'm sure you remember every other day a bus was blowing up in Israel unfortunately I mean it was the height of of one of the Inus so he walk this is Ken he walks into the studio in about 5 minutes toight is about to end and he says tell me how to do one of these disaster shows you do them all the time so you never know what's going to happen and uh you hope it's uh you know good news and not bad um but again it's one of the things that just are so you know exciting about it literally when I open the mic at 6:00 a.m. I don't know what's going to happen during that show you know my my daughter right now has an amazing amazing teacher shout outs to Mrs Rosenberg um she is a uh she's a West her family is all from the West Side very close with my family um and so you know she you know had a real relationship with with with my grandfather of blessed memory and so on the anniversary this year of the uh the JFK assassination she brought in and read parts of his Jia J gay assassination my and my daughter is there and my daughter is there and she you know has her stand up it was very cute so I I and so she came home that was an amazing way for us to talk about a hopic perspective on Assassin you know assassination of JFK was it mean for a you know a world leader to be killed you know your show spam so many massively important events and also crucial events in the lives of individuals like was there a moment on air where you ever just felt the weight of the moment the gravity of the the situation the gravity of the situation on the air that's a good question I'd have to think about that um I mean 911 might be a might well 9 was not really on the air 911 I am called right before the show ends by a staff member um a plane just hit the World Trade Center I said no wonder because we were right across from we were right across the river from the World Trade Center I said no wonder there's a million people in our parking lot they're all looking toward New York and and then the drama for me 9/11 was I didn't get home till Thursday meaning I stayed in Jersey because they threatened if you try to get through the Holland Tunnel or whatever even if you approve you live in Manhattan you're not going to get back the whole thing so I did the show Wednesday morning and then Thursday morning and then made my way back to Manhattan so that for me that drama was more of the uh you know what everybody was going through just in terms of trying to get their life back to normal um and try to get somewhere because you just couldn't move anywhere at that time um the weight on the air you know I I have to say by the way that I don't know how well I portray this in the book but I think my father's visit on the last day of his life actually was a weight on the air because when my father informed us on Sunday this was a Wednesday that he went missing when he informed us on Sunday that he was going to come to the radio station to pay tribute on 25th anniversary remember he was 91 years old um I I I I was trying to give in him not to do it I said we don't even have a chair in the radio station that you'll be comfortable like you know some a 91 year olds you at least be somewhat comfortable but he refused to listen and and wanted to make sure to come which he did and that I think the weight of that day started to weigh on me I wanted to make sure not to mention his name on the air by the way that the best part of the story is you have your producer at the time maybe it was mayor um you have him introduce him so name I would have to say his name publicly really amazing and I wore Tha which I don't know I think I mentioned it on that show that it was the first time I'd ever worn an in a chai in studio know on the road and there was another thing I forgot what it was that we had arranged for him um but anyway so that the weight of that was uh and then of course the whole you know he came to the radio station pay tribute to me he ends up and he he was in fact an effective driver at 91 years old we didn't expect the fact there would be a massive downpour and he would take a detour you know on a road that had no barrier um but but um I forgot what I was going to say um but the way but but then people of course as you can imagine sh shim at any point where this must be like such a burden for you he comes to pay tribute to you know to say some kind words about you and then literally drives off to his death like how do you how can you wrap your head around it and I will tell you that as much as I understand that comment I never felt that way it was like I don't know I felt it was meant to be or felt that that the whole experience was so beautiful until the disaster I don't know but it was even till today it's not 2025 this was 20 eight even till today it's like I can't grasp it but I can wrap my head around it you know what I mean like that part of it doesn't really bother me but parts of it are difficult to grasp you know going back I may have mentioned this to you before but going back through the you know Jam archives one I mean there's so many moments that stick out to you but one that really caught my ear was it's an interview I believe in 204 uh it's Joey Bodner in Gaza City oh wow in a hotel right and he's talking to you about how beautiful the group of people the group of people how beautiful it is how gorgeous it is and the soldiers are here and here the isan Seminary kids and and when I heard that it struck me I mean like you know obviously this you know especially for the last year and a half but certainly since' 05 you know Gaza has kind of been synonymous with you know a Haven for terrorists and a a place and it it struck me both in Tanakh you know where that area is I mean the pisan cell there for a reason it's one of the most beautiful places on Earth um you know but all the way down to' 04 Joey bogner's describing it like it's paradise and anybody who lived there said it was Paradise how have you experienced and understood particularly from your seat as someone who has to explain it and narrate it to a to a wider community and listening audience how have you understood the shifts in uh Israeli history in the last you know several decades well you know what they call it an Israel conceps yes yes where everyone is on not everyone where many people are convinced that if there's an effort to make peace and to live in peace that it actually can happen um so how have I understood it I'll tell you I I I think I've I don't think I don't think it's a way of understanding and then transmitting that understanding I think it's a bit different I have tried to normalize what many people have thought are abnormal activities for Jews so Joey bodner's on the air likely with a group from Ben Sher and Tink I assume yeah Joey bond is on the air 20 years ago from there so I can emphasize to people that yes a regular normal te- neck Jew not the settler look and not the you can actually go and visit Gaza and make a statement and be there for the Jewish people Etc same with Judea and Samaria I you can ask ZK who's our great videographer today we took a trip to Judea and Samaria you got it in 2001 that was challenging to say the least but people are listening 6,000 mil away thinking wow in and in K and N is in you know Mito so and then of course the biggest example of this and I hope this makes the point this answers your question is that we normalized travel to Kevo nobody and I mean nobody would ever think of spending a shabas in Kon before JM and the nobody great point and we went ahead and on every now you're a loser if you don't go correct every opportunity weekday tour any excuse godav any opportunity we are convincing people that they should be among th those who are going and of course shabbaton I can't take full credit for it there are a 10,000 Israelis who are already doing it but Shabbat Kon from our standpoint making it a really hip cool and interesting thing to do to spend shabas is amazing final point I get to Kevon on one of those shabat and a young lady walks up to me and says I'm here because of you and I said that's very nice what do you mean she said well my parents were convinced that it's completely unsafe for me to come here for shabas then they heard you were coming they said oh fine no problem at all trust me I don't know why she thought I'd be the one protecting her but this is the impression that people get uh when they hear it on the air so yeah that's I look in general the Zionist piece the future of the Jewish peoples in the state of Israel it's something I've always believed I continue to preach it uh I I I shudder when I think of how many Rabbi leaders don't use the opportunity to State it it bothers me tremend I'm talking about from theic world to the most modern world it bothers me tremendously that people that they in their positions don't take the opportunity at least once a year like I always say onab can we not talk about the the shear of of uh of koses and instead talk about that this is the holiday that's the beginning of Jewish nationalism that the end of this holiday is us actually getting to Israel can we please do that so you know so that's frustrating to me so I try my best from this you know bully pulpit uh to emphasize just how important Israel is and to encourage people to travel to Israel even now with prices the way they are and everything else I'm not demanding that people follow through you can't make it that's fine but have a plan make sure that you're thinking in your head here's the next reasonable time that I can be there and I can enjoy time there one of the most interesting chapters in the book that I was surprised by even though I guess logically you you must have known it was true uh you whole chapter on non-jewish listeners um how how do you explain that phenomen I mean it listen I I suppose um you know one of the real advantages of the era we currently live in is that Niche is back you know like you like I will listen to a podcast on like the top 50 Indian classical music songs of all time I have no hook into this world it's just super fast I could never be in a car with you this this this is how I keep car PS out you know um but you know like I I you know one of the real media trends of 20 you know the 2020s has been just going all in on Niche audiences and saying I want to listen to an obsessive talk about the thing he or she are obsessed with but you know when you were coming of age in the radio industry this was the era of Mass Appeal you know everyone had grown up on The Brady Bunch and gilan's Island and silver you know so so how do you understand and explain having a listenership out side of the Nicha audience that you're targeting no it's funny because uh I have actual emails to proven and other an some of them in the book They're amazing and other anecdotal um uh episodes where people just want to be part of family and community and when they listened to the show they felt like they were part of something uh I always say that you know among the non-orthodox the Friday morning JM then was their shabas like that was their it's not to take shabas candle lighting time here by Udin the next day they'd be golfing but this was their OB this experience and I was responsible for doing that for them and I'll never forget a nonreligious staff member at WFMU um an erif tishu it was a weekday ER of Tish and RBI goldwaser was uh I delayed putting her goldw to our Torah on and I was so frustrated on myself that I had not gotten to it it was supposed to be 7:30 I didn't do till 7:40 and I'm so frustrated in walks Meredith this staff member and says to me I was just listening to the last couple minutes in the car I didn't realize tomorrow's Tish I have to make sure to have break fasted my family I said what you actually know what Tish is you're like the funniest thing I don't know to what degree she fasted or didn't but just you you never know who's listening and what they're going to gain from it and how much it's going to impact them um and even today by the way I I came across emails recently I mean during the the the the digital era where still non-orthodox or non-jewish people are listening to the show which is just amazing a lot of people like good radio yeah seriously like good I do a show in Israel every day for an hour so I met a guy named RAB ketki and kirat safer says I listen to you every day I said RAB ketki first of all you don't know English and secondly you're yeah but I just love hearing your voice I said okay you know there you go so people just like good radio so golden Thro like Rob Stewart that's great there you go so speak speaking of speaking of good radio I want to close it out with just looking forward so we're in an era now where the entire game has changed right so in a sense you know in a sense radio is back um but in new forms right so you have podcasts now you have live podcasts that are huge there video stuff right I mean Mo most podcasts now listen to on YouTube I actually watched on YouTube now um you have in the music world you have streaming you have Spotify you have iTunes um you have apple music right so what does this new look like for someone who came of age you know and who started broadcasting in like 84 yeah it's it's it's just a matter of trying to get people's attention in other words if I can get your attention especially if you're in my Niche you know potential audience I'm going to get I'm going to get you y you know if I'm going to get your attention I guarantee you that once a week at the minimum you're going to listen to what I'm doing on my network what and what are you excited for in this era because it feels there's so many opportunities like you can reach people in so many different ways I think that I mean again when when it comes to me and my excitement it's all about Israel and eventually you know the goal is to spend a good part of the year in Israel and broadcast from there and bring whatever is happening in Israel to the diaspora you know even more so than we're doing now um and I think that that's really one of the only major pieces that's been missing from my recent shows is the personalities that are making a difference in Israel especially ones that speak English I started doing a little bit's been on my show like you i' start started doing it a little oh um Ariel Kahana has been on my show so I'm sort of you know getting there but if I'm in Israel in the next year or two on a more permanent basis then I would hope that that would be you know just like I've introduced music from Israel to an American audience I hope to introduce more Israeli personalities to the American audience that's amazing the book is 1.8 million minutes and Counting celebrating and contemplating my first 40 years in Jewish broadcasting by nakam seagull this has been an absolute privilege thank you Ari by Dr AR that so fun