Nachum and Rabbi Stav of Tzohar Discuss Aliyah, Jewish Unity and More on JM in the AM

Monday morning, we have a very very special guest in our studio. Um, right after the Mamani victory this past Tuesday, Harav David Stav, who leads the Soha Rabbitical Organization in Israel and is the chief rabbi of Sham in Israel, encouraged more of a widespread commitment to aliyah. The official announcement read, uh, after the election results positioned Mani to become the mayor of New York City, the Sohar Rabbitical Organization issued an open letter to the diaspora Jewish community calling for individuals and community leaders to prioritize the option of living in Israel on the community and family agenda. Harav David Stav, a pleasure to welcome you to JM in the A.M. >> Thank you. Good morning. >> Good morning. Shalom. Shalom. So, why now? especially someone like yourself, you always like to emphasize that if one who lives in the diaspora um wants to move to Israel, they should do so for positive reasons, for love of the homeland, etc. So why tie this statement so directly into what happened last week in New York? >> Well, first of all, that that was only one part of the announcement. Actually, we embrace the American community, the Jewish community in New York and in other places in the states. And we understand that if people will decide to stay in the states because of several reasons and we mentioned this in our announcement. We know that people could stay because of family reasons, because of other reasons, but >> there's always a good reason to stay. >> There's always a good reason to stay. But but it's a time to consider again the future of the Jewish people. And we don't have to wait until it will be too late. But we see the signs already that America is not as it used to be or at last at least it's not as we wanted it to be. And if we do not come for the good reasons, for the positive reasons, we should understand that we should come maybe even for the negative reasons. And I want to add one more thing to that. Although we are now in it was the par but in a few weeks we will learn the portion of and it's a an amazing vote an amazing idea that this fat says Jacob calls his two wives and he tells them well the face of your father Lavan is not the same as it used to be in the past and I heard your brothers complaining that I stole money from your father etc etc and Hashem and God told told me to go back to the land of Israel. So the fat asks if you have a command of God to go back to earth Israel, why do you have to add the the reasons of Lavan's face is not the same and the brothers speak better about you etc etc. >> A commandment is a command. >> Commandment, a commandment is a commandment. So the fat gives an amazing amazing answer. And he says, "How did Hashem talk to Yakov?" And he told him to go back to earth Israel. He sent him the signs by the face of Lavan. He sent him the signs by the the words that the kids of the sons of Lavan was saying. We see the signs. The signs means that Hashem is talking to us. Hashem is telling us Jews, dear Jews, please understand what is the direction. The direction is to the land of Israel. It doesn't mean that in the land of of Israel, in the state of Israel, it's more secure than in America. I'm not saying that. I know that we are past >> challenging times. >> Challenging times in Israel as well. >> But we understand at least that over there it's ours. Over there we know that we have the chance to rebuild the Jewish society again. and not only singing about redemption but moving it forward and making redemption by ourselves. >> Move that mic a drop away. Um and and on top of that in Israel their priority is the safety of the Jewish people and here or anywhere in diaspora you wonder about the future of the safety of the Jewish people and the future of people in general. It's a uh there is the potent and you know crystalall we just commemorated it yesterday. You know, I'm not saying anything is turning into Christ in New York, but I'm not going to that degree, obviously, but you never know. You never know what the what's going to happen. And the safety of the public and in our case, the safety of the Jewish community is priority one. You know, my father, bless his memory, used always to tell me that he asked the bezelb how come Jabotinski was running around from shul to shul in Poland yelling to the Jews, please leave Poland and go leave Poland, whether you go to the to America or you go to the to Palestine, but leave leave Poland. And you, the Bzarb, you told us not to leave Poland. And the bas answered him they we were blind. We our eyes were shut off by by Hashem by God. They didn't uh we didn't open our eyes. We don't want to repeat that mistake again. So we all are aware of what's going on. We see the incidents of anti-semitism. We see the elected being elected of Mandali. It doesn't mean that he's going to kill Jews tomorrow. No, I'm not. I don't think so. But these are signs of normalization of anti-semitism. >> And if we, you know, if it looks like a dog and it speaks like a dog and he walks like a dog, most probably he's a dog, >> right? Um, do they ever give Jabatinsky credit for having his eyes open or it's just that the Belerba had his eyes closed? >> Uh, I dare to say that um, they did not give the credit. >> They don't give him the credit, >> Jabotinski. But you know, I don't I'm not here to criticize there. I'm I'm just saying >> and you're very into unity and and and concentrating on what on what unites us instead of divides us. So >> I'm just using this as a as an metaphor of having blind eyes. Rabbi usually are called in the Torah. There are >> right and the Torah defines rabbis as these are the eyes of the of the of the people. Sometimes the eyes are closed. So we have to try to open them. >> David Stav is here. You sound very familiar with with the Galot. Are are you a native Israeli? Were you born in Israel? >> Of course I was born in Isra. I say it like that cuz your English is spectacular and it sounds like you're very familiar with what's going on in the diaspora. Is that just because over the years you've become familiar with what's happening here? >> First of all, we have deep connections with a lot of rabbis with a lot of communities. >> Personally, I learned in Israel for one year in Baltimore in 1974. >> Wow. >> My rebi was a rabb bless his memory. He passed away two years or three years ago and I remember him with a lot of respect and admiration and you know through the times with the connections of Soha with many many Americans with with many many American communities um are very deep and strong. Actually we are now working on um creating um we having already a TV internet channel in Hebrew and want to expand it to English. We have a weekly paper that is distributed in shows in Israel in Hebrew and we consider it to translated. >> Oh, that'd be wonderful. Wow. >> We want to engage more and more Israeli Jews to sec to American Jews who believe that we belong to the same nation into the same future. >> David Stav is here. Um why' you spend the year in Baltimore? Like how did that materialize? My father that was a Belusid said that a scholar has to know English and he said you have to know to know to talk to people you have to read literature that is written only in English and uh if you want to be something you have to learn English so he sent me in 1974 you could imagine >> without the family going you >> family I I went myself I lived in Boro Park on Shabat when I had free shabat and I used to go once in two three weeks back to Borak and spent three weeks in there as well. >> So you're so you're very friendly, very familiar with Yeshiva Lane. Uh if that's if that's what they called it back then. I don't know if that was the name back then, but anyway. Um so what is the plan? You know, I here's my traditional criticism of American rabbis and I don't know how you'll because I I >> don't make problems with God forbid. But I I always feel that one of the main messages of any responsible American rabbi, especially the Orthodox ones who are who have a tremendous feeling of being tied to Israel and where and they feel that our future is tied to Israel, have to be speaking about the national message more than they do. I'll give you an example. This is an extreme example, but I do this every year on on air of Shabbat. I always use this microphone to remind the rabbis who are listening that there's no need to discuss the shar of mar or how much karosis they should be using at the seder or whatever else sometimes they like to speak about. It's the month of Nissan. This is the national holiday. This is the holiday that commemorates to matan to uh to that's what the message should be. That's what on an occasion like that on the shabas Russia that's what we should be concentrating on the large picture future of the Jewish people. Do you understand what I'm saying? First of all I understand I will say I will add to you one short regarding Shabbat. It's an amazing you know it's there is one in I think says Shabbat is before that's what Caro says and the question is what is that I mean why is that important to say a specific simmon >> that you dedicate for that Shabbat and it doesn't say there that you have to to It's we call him Shabbat because of the big miracle that occurred in Shabbat. I always asked in the draw of Shabbat. I always ask why is it important that the will teach us the name of this Shabas is Shabbat and we forgotten that the name is Shabbat. We know Shabas before Pes we have we know that we have to prepare ourselves to PE. There is something which is very very important to know in Shabbat Gadon. The rabbis tell us that there was a big miracle in Shabbat Gadon. What is the big miracle? Moshe commanded the Jews to prepare the ship for the sacrifice of Pes and the Jews were not afraid and they were preparing four days before Pes. They were preparing the ship and they each one of them bided Bed banded it to the to the door or to the to the house. And where the Egyptians went by and asked what is that? And they said to them well we have a sacrifice in full days and they were not afraid from the Egyptians despite the fact that the ships were the idols. So the question is is that a big miracle? I mean we had the templates we had. Okay. So the Jews were not afraid. And the answer is very simple. All the templates all the things that God was doing, Hashem was doing for Hashem. There's no difference between natural things and miraculous things because for Hashem he created the world. Who cares? For him it doesn't mean anything. For us it's a big it's a miracle that Hashem made the plague of blood or whatever. The biggest miracle is that we have the courage to understand that we are not anymore slaves. That we have the freedom to choose to leave Egypt. We have the freedom to choose to worship Hashem. We have the freedom to choose to take our to take responsibility on our lives. That's Shabbat. Shabbatul is the shabas that we declare to ourselves. We have the courage to take our own decisions without being terrified, without being afraid. >> No more galut mentality. >> Exactly. And that's what Shabbat symbolizes. Yet I want to justify the rabbis my colleagues >> and the shar of Mar >> of the Shir of Mar and Matzah because every year people could forget and we have to remind them that we don't have to die on the night of Seda not to eat too much together. My father used to say eating too much together is it's not it's not considered as we have to eat properly. We have to eat without talking but we have to eat the sh. So the rabbis have to remind that but we shall never forget what is all pes about. It's about our own decision our miraculous behavior not to be afraid. And you know what? If we summarize the two years after October 7th, I think what's more more surprising and more inspiring than anything is to see the youngsters that we actually we the parents >> Yeah. >> disgraced them. We we undermined them. We didn't >> we doubted them. >> We doubted them. We were not sure will they be able to >> And this is the generation that you taught and that you helped raise. >> Correct. And we were doubtful about their >> commitment >> commitment and obligation to carry >> heroism >> to carry the torch. And we see when we see the letters, you know, the number of books that will describe the stories of the October 7th war are already tripled all the wars that occurred in Israel. Because every week we see another story, another book, another description of soldiers writing texts for the to their parents etc. etc. By the way, when when you see so many stories about heroic behavior of the individuals, that means that something in the leadership was wrong because when the leadership functions properly, there's no need for individuals heroism. The need of so many heroic behaviors comes from the fact that the system does not function properly. >> Wow. Uh Harav David Stav is here, leader of Sohar. Uh we were talking about aliyah etc. What were your thoughts when you heard about the return of Hadar Golden. What did you think of? >> I'm now just writing an in the middle of writing an article about that. You know I I could not disconnect it from this week's portion. You know the first time in our Tanakh in our Bible when the there is a burial described is this week and Abraham is urging to buy a piece of land to bury his beloved wife. And in this week we will bring back the bones of Adal Golding to a Jewish burial. And there is a a wonderful explanation. Raan explains why does the Torah emphasize so many gives so many verses to describe the burial of of Sar. So there are a lot of explanations to that and he doesn't accept the idea that the Torah wanted us only to understand that Abraham was buying every piece of land despite the fact that it was promised by God to do that because he says if that's the case so why doesn't Torah describe about any other >> purchase that Abraham was doing why does the Torah emphasized only the burial >> and he gives an amazing answer he says that the fact that the Torah described the burial the burial of Sar O teaches us that one of the ways we will be connected to the land of Israel is by looking up to our ancestors knowing that they are buried there because we understand that when somebody passes away does not just disappear. He does not vanish. He's present by us. And when we will bring Adar tomorrow to burial, we understand that his way of life, his values are with us. We bury maybe the bones, but his spirit will be present. And when we see the determination of his parents to fight, to struggle for 11 years to bring him home, we see this as a part of the eternal struggle of the Jewish people to come back to Israel and not to give away, not to give away no Jewish soul, no Jewish body. We all belong to the land of Israel. And for me, it's something very very inspirational. >> David Stav is here. I want to go back for a moment because uh we talk about Mamani and we talk about the aliyah push that you uh uh eloquently um made available to the public in terms of your statement etc. and the the it seems like your attitude, your approach is that there is room for everybody in Israel, but it's more than that. And I think this is the reason maybe that you started so hard to show there's room for everybody in the Jewish people, that there's room for everybody to feel included, to make religious life and its process easier for people. Would that be accurate that this outreach to others to show that we want to include you as opposed to sometimes a system that looks like it's trying to exclude people? Is that what one of the reasons you formed the organization? Yeah, we established so organization a few months after the assassination of Rabbin when we felt that the Israeli society is broken into fractions and if we will not do something to bridge the gaps between the different tribes that the Israeli society is consisted of, we will find ourselves in a disaster. the idea of dividing the state to Judea and Israelite kingdoms like in the ancient first temple the state of Tel Aviv versus the state of Jerusalem is a idea that run in a lot of people's minds and for us it means a disaster because you are one and your name is one And the zor points out that when is hashem one in the land when his people are behaving like one nation and when we are splitted is just like believing that there are several idols. As a matter of fact the matter says that god prefers us to be united and not that from rather than being from observing observing all the mitzvot and being splitted. Hashem says I prefer you to worship idols ra and being united rather than being from and being separated. >> How did we lose that perspective? >> I don't know the brings that matter several times the big that who is not who does not see himself in in the orthodox world as his talmid follower. That's the idea that we received from him. And they're talking about belongs to another group who is who is bigger to us than the taught us the refused to define the secular people as atheist with all the implications that this definition requires. He says they all defined as and to whom is he speaking? I was speaking to those who grew up in kades to those who grew came from Europe and grew up in a religious environment. What what can we say today when you see this you know the hostages they come back and they tell you those kids that come from nowhere came from no religious background >> who spent y at a dance festival. >> Exactly. And they were ready to sacrifice their lives >> and fasted additional days for keeper refused to eat. Peter on on Pes refused to violate Shabbat. These are guys that came from non-observant background. They didn't learn anything about Judaism. So, how could we judge these people as people that are atheist or they have no place? I believe that every Jewish man and woman could come to the land of Israel. Doesn't matter to which denomination he belongs to. Doesn't matter to what background he has. Israel is so big. It's so big in its heart. The Jewish people has such a big heart that is able to contain all complexities and all diversities and will figure it out. >> Uh practically speaking because so far at the beginning I know was dealing with Jewish weddings, right? Marriage certificates etc. Pract and there was a kashut angle to it as well. Are are are those categories still active? What is >> Yeah. But by the way we help a lot of Americans just for >> I would imagine. Yeah. >> Yeah. Many Americans that arrive to Israel come from nonobservant background. Many of them find it very difficult to prove that they are Jewish when they want to when they start dating with an Israeli boy or girl and all of a sudden they discover that they have to prove that they're Jewish. So if they get married through an orthodox rabbi, usually the rabbet will accept the letter. >> Especially if they're familiar with the rabbi. Yeah. if they're familiar with the rabbi, >> if they know who he is, but if they're not familiar with the rabbi or if they come from another religious observant or other denominations, that could be a problem. And we are cooperating with benef um to prove that they Jewish and actually every immigrant has to prove that he's Jewish. He could be easily assisted by us and we help we help them to prove their Jewish identity in order to enable them to get married through the ravenet. could tell you that um every year we help more than 500 Americans that need our services. >> Is that the biggest part of the Sohar revolution or because I know Kashroot was also in there. >> We have we have so many projects. I think we we'll spend the >> well I asked if it was the biggest >> the biggest project is the marriages still >> right >> and the TV internet channel. These are the two biggest projects. We have kashoot that requires a lot of efforts. We have almost 400 restaurants. Actually, when I came here to New York a few days ago, I met several people that told me, "Well, I want to thank you because of you. I could eat in more places in Tel Aviv." And I accepted the thank the gratitude. >> Yeah. Their children may not, but they can. And I'm saying that >> No, I think the children I hope so. I hope you're right. >> I think the children as well. I could say that whoever >> because one it seems that when the children from here go to the Shivotan seminaries one of the things they're what one of the practices is to is to make sure that the students know where not to eat and I wonder if that's always the best practice but that's just a personal >> um I think I know what what you're talking about. >> I'm sure you do. I think I wrote an article that will be be published this week or next week in in America about it advising the the parents to which is to go and to which is to send them or not to send them. >> Wow. >> You know modern Orthodox people would love the to see the kind the children following the ways. Sometimes they're not aware of that that not knowing they send the children to nonist that did not hide the fact that they are not Zionist but did not were not volunteering to share it with their parents and the parents sometimes think that they sent to a pro-Israeli yeshiva and pro-Zionist yeshiva and they find out a few months later that well they send them to yeshiva. So I'm telling every every parent please check before you send your child. >> They're not all your shiva though. >> Oh not no not every shiv is shivot and not every shiv is without being advertising. There are many good by the way could be many that are good as well. But if you belong to that way of thinking but if you want your children to continue your way and you belong to the modern orthodox please make sure that it's a modern orthodox. And um just back to our original topic, the aliyah and the changes here in this part of the diaspora, etc. And I'm sure by the way, I mean, I don't know if you travel to, you know, other parts of the world. In Europe, this message is even much much stronger. But in Europe, I think things are so bad that that they don't need as strong of a message because people understand that they have to get to Israel as soon as possible. And by the way, like the French aliyah, do you have to deal with that as well with those of questionable background? Personally, it's because of the problem of language. I don't deal with the French aliyah, but we get a lot of olim from from France. Not as many as we could expect because of the wave of anti-semitism. There are there are problems with the way they are received in Israel. We're blessed with every immigrant, but um many French immigrants want to think again whether the favorite place for them is Israel. Um I don't I don't criticize just an understood. >> We have a big group not enough. Um, you must be happy that because you mentioned Tel Aviv before, you must be happy that Tel Aviv seems to be getting more religious, more spiritual, or am I am I not uh as well informed as I think I am? >> No, I think Tel Aiv is getting more Jewish. I don't know if becomes more it gets more religious, but it becomes more and more Jewish. I mean there are so many shs today full with youngsters many Americans I guess to the American society when I talk now they are familiar with Beyuda 126 and Benjuda 86 and other minionim is flourishing not only with American youngster but also with with Israelis with Israeli youngsters that are thirst to more and more Judaism. Are you um uh do you have any uh American um Anglo community in Sham or Shham and only an Israeli? >> Unfortunately, we don't have a big American community. We have around 10 20 families that the background is is American or Australian or South African. >> So there is an angle angle of presence. Actually, it's not a big American presence. >> Small presence. >> Small presence. Actually, we wanted to encourage and I was supposed to arrive on behalf of Nephes Benef to New York when they had big presentation, but then exactly the co started >> and the event was cancelled. But I believe that in the future we would love to have more Americans in Sham. believe that um Americans should discover a few other parts of Israel that they've not discovered yet. There are a few other communities besides Mishkaf and Modí and Raana. There are a few other places in Sham should be in the >> I always joke I want to move to Katsurin. So who knows you never know there may be Americans up there at some point although I think there are some already. All right I I have to let you go but last couple of things. First of all, when it comes to the practical aspect of the aliyah that you are encouraging, no reason for it so hard to get involved in any of the system, right? Because your friends at Neesh Benev have it all covered like they they there's no there's there's really no way. I mean, I'm not I don't want to put words in your mouth, but as an observer, wouldn't you say there's really no way to improve on what they've gone ahead and established in Israel? >> I think that um Nev is doing a great work and I'm fully embracing them. And we're by the way now a joint um project with them about um different things in the army. >> So we we encourage a lot what they're doing. Um what we are helping neesh benef is to help those who need to prove Jewish identity, those who want rabbis that to perform the weddings and many of the American rabbis are not yet approved. Uh we help them to to get through the system. By the way, just this morning met a rabbi that thanked me for allowing him to perform a wedding. >> You advocated for him. >> Uh, >> nice. >> We allowed him. We gave him the license because we are also official rabinet. So, we could allow the authorize the American rabbis to perform weddings. So, we do this every year for many many couples. Um I think that there is a joke in Israel about Israelis that love aliyah and don't like olim. >> That's for sure. I I would I would I would say that I would believe I want to believe that it's only a joke and I could tell you that we at least like we love Aliyah and we love OIM and we will do any effort possible in order to enable them to integrate in the Israeli society wherever we can. >> Wow. Uh, finally it's two years later and you mentioned one of the great lessons of this war has been the incredible commitment of the next generation. They they shined more than anybody expected them to shine through the most difficult of circumstances, the most harrowing of challenges. Um, big picture, not just the youth and not just the incredible IDF, etc. But big picture, what are some of the lessons that come out of this war? We look back at two years with the tremendous sacrifice and all the blood and pain that the Jewish people, especially obviously in Israel, have endured. What would you say the big takeaway is? >> Wow. Um, I think there are two major lessons. One major lesson, one major lesson is that we should never rely on what we believe that we see. Just like the BZ Reba described his blind blinded eyes, we were all blind in um on in October 6. >> We fooled ourselves. >> We fooled ourselves in different levels. >> Yeah. from Bramap. We we never I never look about I never tried to to explain what Hashem why Hashem was doing it to us. I could only ask myself what were we doing to ourselves and to remind ourselves what happened to us in October 6. How we were divided. How each tribe wanted to kill the other. how the prayers including the Torah prayers in Yumiper would violently interrupted in physically and orally by protested. How people were ready to disobey to to not to join the army. How people were ready to pass the judicial reform despite all the resistance despite the understanding that it's going to tear up the society to pieces. to remember that our external enemies will never be able to do what we could do to ourselves. We're experts in self-destruction and this should be a lesson that I'm afraid that has not been taught yet because when we see what occurs to us while we are talking what happens today in the Israeli society is just a reminder to what happened to us in October 6. That's one one big lesson that we have to teach. And the second lesson is to open the eyes to the miracles of Hashem. I mean, Hashem was giving us such a p such a punishment on October 7th. But this punishment was escorted with such love with so many miracles. We were exposed to miracles that the prophets could never imagine. I mean just to remind ourselves what happened to Syria, what happened to the Iran, what happened to the you know the the plans theah with the beepers. If just to remember that if theah would join the attack of Hamas in October 7, 6:29 early in the morning, we would not been sitting here talking about 2,000 victims. We would have been talking about 20,000 if not more than that. It was that close to that Hashem saved from saved us from these terrible thoughts and plans and schedules that they scheduled in us. And we should all remember that uh on one hand um miracles we cannot we should never rely on miracles and we have to remember what is our responsibility to our faults and to our behavior. on the other hand to see how God is loving us. How God cares about us and he cares about us. Sometimes it seems to be more than we care about ourselves. >> I think unfortunately you're right. Wow. Harrad David Stav uh Soar will do anything in their power to help people move to Israel. That would be accurate, right? That would be a good way of saying it. And I agree with you on everything except for one thing. The only thing we're not going to agree on after this conversation is I think Shabbat is only one topic. There's only one topic on Shabbat. That's the incredible incredible journey of the Jewish nation. >> Expect two Jews to sit together for >> and agree on everything. >> 30 minutes and 30 minutes and to agree on everything. It will be above all expectations. >> Aaraba looking forward to reuniting in Israel. >> More coming up. If you're listening to a uh Monday morning edition of JM in the AM