Hostage Debriefer Glenn Cohen Live in Studio on Today's JM in the AM

It's America's one and only Jewish moments in the morning radio program heard on listeners sponsored digital radio around the world webc.com on the school network and of course on the beloved NSN app. Good to be back. My thanks again to Arammy for all of his help over the last couple of days and certainly over the last few weeks as well as the health situation has been up and down now on the road to recovery. Please God and I thank everybody for your good wishes. Well, I told you that today uh if I made it into the studio we'd have an amazing guest and a very interesting conversation and in fact we do. Glenn Cohen is here. Glenn Cohen is um in our studio this morning here at JM in the AM. He is a former Mossad chief psychologist and hostage negotiator. And he is responsible for the debriefing, if you will, of 168 live hostages who were taken on October the 7th to Gaza. And obviously, as we know, held for different lengths of time. And he was responsible to debrief them. What all that means, we'll find out for him in just a moment. He's writing a book about this entire experience which we will talk about. He is in our studio. Glenn Cohen, a pleasure to welcome you to JM in the AM. >> Good morning. No, it's great to be here. >> When did you move to Israel? What year? >> After I finished uh high school, 1982. >> And that was on your own or with parents? >> Well, it was just a one-year program. I was supposed to go to Brandeise to on a basketball scholarship, but that one year turned out to be a long year. Sort of like Gilligans Island, you know, three-hour cruise. I I decided to stay. >> And did you play ball professionally in Israel or not? >> I actually did. Even though I gave up the the dream to play college ball, I ended up playing professional ball. Yeah. >> For a team we would have heard of or not? >> Uh Elitul Tel Aviv. >> Oh, there you go. They're one of the top teams, right? >> Yeah, they were then. Yeah, it was pretty cool to get paid money to play basketball. That's pretty cool >> in Israel on top of that. >> Yep. The best. >> How does one get to this position? How does one take the career path to end up being the one over the last two years who's debriefing the the hostages who were taken on October 7th? >> Yeah. Well, it's one of those things that you can't plan it. It just happened and I happened to be, I guess, the right guy in the right place because everything I did before that led to it. I ended up being many years in the Mossad uh for 25 years. I ended up as the chief psychologist there. So I'm used to operating what's called a parallel universe. Um you know the whole world of the Mossad is uh dealing with people who are undercover and enemy territory. So it's really far out there. I also have experience with P training. I myself as a pilot went through P training. I train our top commandos and pilots how to prepare for the option of captivity. And so I I'm familiar with that um area. And uh for the past 20 years, I've been in my reserve duty in the IDF hostage negotiation unit. And when it came to the date of October 20th, 13 days into the war, when two um ladies were were released, Judith and Natalie Ran, the first hostages to be released, they realized that besides for sending a Shinbet interrogator to meet them, it's probably a good idea to send a psychologist. So they sent me from my hostage negotiation unit and I met them there. >> I don't know much about psychology, but a psychologist who's listening now, how different is what you do or what you're required to have in your toolbox compared to the average psychologist? >> Oh, it's very different. And actually that's why it was it was very challenging and uh because the the task was not just to care for them. Actually, the official task was to meet them and to debrief them and to actually get critical lifesaving intelligence about the other hostages. So, it's not your typical therapeutic setting where you meet somebody and you're just there for the person to take care of them and hear them. We had an agenda, a very good agenda, which luckily it turned out to be also in their favor because they could also help and and empower them. was very very tricky because at the same time one goal was to treat them with kid gloves and give them the soft landing that they deserve and need but the other hand to get this vital life-saving intelligence and quickly. So it's seemingly two different skill sets and there not many therapists who who feel comfortable operating in both worlds. So therefore I was the one who started there and afterwards for all 168 I had to put together a team of psychologists who are familiar w with this way of operating of either they've worked together with the shinbet or the Mossad or they've been part of P training because it's very very tricky and so everything had to be very very delicate and precise the balance between those two. >> Can I assume that the other members of the team were all born in Israel or I shouldn't make that assumption? >> Uh yes there. >> So is are you an outlier in that way? Like it's unusual for them to reach out to a an American who's a Native American. >> Well, you know, I've already my my wife jokes, you know, that I'm already more Israeli than Israeli. I've been in Israel for over 40 years. So, you know, I'm no longer considered an out. >> Yeah. But at some point in your career, they must have known what your background was and you were still young, etc. But that was not an issue. Like, it didn't matter. >> No, in the beginning, uh, when I first decided to make aliyah and go into the army, then it became an issue. My Hebrew wasn't so great. I had to improve my Hebrew. I made all these mistakes. as a pilot, I'd be flying and make mistakes on the on the radio and they'd make fun of me and but you know, by the time I ended up becoming a psychologist, it was uh I'm already deeply involved in the in the defense establishment and >> and the teams that you described that you had to put together. Are are you debriefing with others or is are are these individual meetings that are taking place? >> So, what happens is the idea was uh the when I got there on the 20th of October and uh after meeting the first two, I realized there's no protocol for this. So the next day I I wrote the protocol and the protocol dictates uh having two people together, a psychologist and a shinbet uh officer, an intelligence officer who will actually sit with every single hostage as they um arrive at the hospital. I first they have like an initial hug with their family which is most important. >> Otherwise it's happening within minutes. >> It's within an hour. Yeah. Because this is this life life-saving. And so we prepare the families in advance. We tell them listen about what's going to happen. >> Yeah. So that they won't be shocked that. And so we after that initial hug we gently say okay now we need to speak to them because it literally could be life and death whether you pass on that intelligence quick enough because >> right they may know something that you need to know today. >> Not just today like because they just left another hostage behind. So we need to know where was he? What you know did they shift into? >> Are they all open about it? Like can you get everyone to open up with this information? So that's a really good question because it's very complicated because some of them uh were very happy to share because uh they realized that you know the importance of helping others >> others um harbored some anger towards the defense establishment and when they meet somebody from the Shinbet they they were angry because where were you? So part of the protocol I instructed the the Shinbet representative to start with an apology. >> Wow. >> And so we had to >> every one of them started like that. >> Every single one. Yeah. That was the way and especially as time went by. I mean 55 days it's one thing but 500 days 730 days. So there was there were certain cases where people were angry but but and and preferred to share less but at the end everybody realized that it was important and they shared. >> Is there a way to quantify for the average guy like me how important these debriefings were? Like I if you I mean you use the figure 168 hostages that you spoke to. Did the majority of them give you information that was important? Did three of them give you information was important? >> Yeah. Well, all first of all, the beauty of it was that uh not only was the information important, but for for the hostages themselves as a byproduct, even though it wasn't the official goal, it for them was very important because it was also for them, a lot of them said that it was therapeutic for them. Not only to to help, but also uh to tell the story of everything they went through in a cognitive way that actually is a way to help trauma. because when you're after trauma your your amygdala and your emotional areas are very activated and the way to to calm that down is to think cognitively. So it actually helped them. So for many of them they they admitted that it was good for them and for us uh there were uh I can't go into too much detail but you can imagine you you heard of the rescue operations >> and so some of those rescue operations were as a direct result of the information that that we got. Um, do they volunte those who are held hostage have this just as you said it's therapeutic to talk and therapeutic to tell the story have a desire to describe to an extent others may want to stay silent about it the physical abuse that they uh undertook the the terrible experience that the entire thing was. Does that become part of the focus or are you able to keep it in that lane of you know here's the info we need? Yeah, that's a good question because uh also part of the protocol I was very very careful to uh to not to go there on purpose and to try to stick to the intelligence and the and the details of of the the cognitive side and and the intelligence. But if it was important to a hostage to go there him or herself and to talk about it, then we would we would allow it and and we would make sure that they understood that there is they have a person that they can speak to in a therapeutic setting in the hospital. There's a whole the psychologists and the social workers uh if they if they want to open up and sometimes they would choose to actually speak to us a bit more because they they felt that you know the keeping a secret you with the it might be kept uh safer there. uh others um felt that they prefer with the hospital staff but it it was very very delicate and and and many of them did share what they went through in in minute details and that was also part of the complicated side for us also to to hear all these stories and >> women more open than men or the opposite or you can't make a generalization like that >> um >> no such thing >> no but there is a generalization as far as the difference between men and women in captivity itself women were able to uh bond better and they use their uh emotional intelligence to cope. Um >> men feel more lonely. The experience is more lonely for them. >> It's lonely and they're used to being the the the hunter outside and and you know, >> especially the Israelis. >> Yeah. And so it's it's much more difficult for an Israeli guy to be um in captivity >> and and those who served in the army or those who were in the army and you know in their 20s who who were taken hostage, do they give you even more important information? Like in other words, I mean they're living this, you know, outside of being captured. They're living this cuz they're still in reserves or or some of them are still in active duty. Does their information help even more than the average person? >> Not really, because it really depended on on where you were, who you were held with, and and so it wasn't so much a function of that. And and you'd be surprised. even uh an 80-year-old lady uh who had no uh official military background. She said to me that when she met me at 2:00 in the morning, she said, "I am I've been waiting for this meeting with you for 55 days because as I was captured and put on a motorcycle taken into Gaza, I said to myself, I have a mission now. I have to remember everything I see and to report back to and she had a lot of detail." >> She did. Yeah. >> Wow. The only there's really only one hostage situation before October 7th that we're somewhat familiar with and I'm sure you know who I'm referring to. An Israeli soldier was captured. The entire country demanded his release, etc., etc. The impression is of that soldier, not a criticism, just an observation, that he was very insulated and and it seemed like the entire experience, again, not a criticism, had a had had a profound negative effect on his mental health or just his ability to socialize in public. Again, I'm giving you generalizations that we came out of that whole situation as observers or as news readers. Um, uh, concluding whether I'm right or wrong, you could tell me if if in fact you want to comment about that. But my point is, it seemed like this group of hundreds of hostages. Am I wrong that it seems like like almost every one of them didn't came out and was able to adjust to a positive attitude and a positive atmosphere and and it seems like they're living on with with, you know, in a much greater social environment and world of acceptance, so to speak. Is is that a wrong impression on my part? Well, I'll tell you the the first part is the wrong impression as far as referring to to Gilad Shalit. Um the the second part is more accurate, but I'll give a general overview. We we this whole the whole issue of captivity is something that we have these preconceived notions about it and we imagine all these things and we assume all these things about captivity and most of it is actually wrong and and my my point and the main point of my book is to understand that we are all capable of much more than we imagine. Even Gilad Shalit who we came back after five years in captivity. He he's an introverted type of guy. He's a great guy. He's he's quiet and shy before he was capt. And uh I waited five years uh to meet him because we were scrambled that morning to get there but we were too late. I met him 5 years after he came out and he survived five years of of captivity and and he's going on to live a meaningful life. Not just him. You go back to Senator John McCain, Vice Admiral James Stockdale, eight years in captivity. So people think that captivity oh my god better off being dead than being in captivity and it's impossible to cope with it >> of I have to be very careful with my messaging captivity is hell of course but my point is that we are capable of coping even with this hell and and these 168 went to hell and came back to tell the tale and not a single one of them would say that they feel that they had would have been better off being dead than being in captivity as opposed to many people have this concept and they think that better off but >> I always thought that maybe the difference might be. And again, based on what you just said, I'll I admit I'm totally wrong, but but the impression I always had was because these captives knew based on their personal experience, there were other captives around them in many cases and in general just the assumptions I assume they made speaking to their captors, they knew they weren't alone. They knew they weren't the only ones in this situation. McCain also, right, was not the only one. He was with a group of PS. knew he was not in this in in a completely lonely situation. In the Shal case, I always thought that might have been the difference where he knew that he was the the lone soldier that the entire country was pining for him to come home. >> Well, be being alone is one uh variable that makes it more difficult to deal with. But there are many other variables for for example uh your personality and your ability to to bond which I mentioned earlier. Gilad Shalid actually paradoxically because he's such a mildmannered introverted type he wasn't a threatening type of character towards the the the capttors and they ended up sitting with him and and they watched uh soccer games together and he managed to to bond uh with them and and so I think that that's a really important thing even though it's it's hard to imagine that and the people who were able to realize it and that's what I do in P training I reframe it and I say to the the commandos I Captivity is a traumatic interpersonal situation and people are shocked by that because of traumatic of course but interpersonal no they're monsters no but even within that monster there's a person not a good person and if you realize that even in this case you can actually bond with them you can make your life a lot easier and and and cope much better >> and from the point of view of a captive I'm sure you spoke to many who were actually locked up and in a cage right we've read about this and kept in cages And you're saying that even in that situation, a human being can persevere. A human being can adjust. A human being can can go through days and weeks like that and and stay strong. >> Yes. And there are many other examples of uh Israeli PS before that from between 1970 and 1973 who were held in solitary confinement in a in a in a tiny cell for for months at end. And they ended up uh finding ingenious ways to figure out a routine uh to to clean yourself, to kill the cockroaches, to to do arts and crafts, and with a toothpick you can uh make a little uh uh sculpture from the little soap bar. Uh incredible ways that and that's what we don't realize that. But we if we are pushed to to with our with our back up against the wall, no matter what the conditions are, we as a human spirit and especially Jews and Israelis who have this DNA of survival and a collective consciousness, that's what we've been doing for thousands of years. We have it in ourselves and most people just aren't put to the test. But I'm telling you and that's the point of of my book and and it's a conclusion I've reached after meeting these 168 that we are all capable especially the Jewish people of coping with any situation. >> So the foreign nationals had a much more difficult time. >> Well foreign nationals it's interesting because um they um they had a more difficult time uh communicating with the capttors. So because they didn't know English language and so they uh had less of a bond. They and so for a lot of them their their conditions were were worse. >> Did you debrief any of them? >> Oh, sure. Every single one. And uh they actually >> and they are as helpful on the same level as other hostages. >> Sometimes even more because some of them were treated the the >> Oh, they know they're not Israeli. >> Well, no, the the opposite. They they knew that they were Thai workers who are usually uh transparent and uh and have lower lower status. So, they sent them to do jobs like cleaning up and doing stuff in the tunnels. So, they ended up seeing a lot of things, but I have to say one of the things I'm most proud of of the protocol that I wrote is that the tie in in, you know, transparent uh lettuce picker from the kibbutz, he was treated with the exact same kid gloves that a six-year-old uh Israeli boy got when they when they returned. And we were so so sensitive also to them. And I think that's part of our our values. >> How old was the youngest hostage that you interviewed? Well, there were the youngest hostages were like 3, four years old, but we I made a um a decision that we wouldn't um debrief uh children under the age of 13. >> Were there teenagers? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. >> And they were open and spoke to you? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, we for them, we brought like a special you like a a stress ball, you know, for boys they got like a basketball, a tiny stress ball, and for girls like a unicorn. And so, we gave it to them. So they because they were a bit more um anxious but we made sure that there they would have a parent with them in the room and yeah they they share it also >> uh the Rolling Stone article you were interviewed about u what was the significance in regard to the hostages >> well yeah it's pretty cool that the uh music and you know you and your your program music is really really important for the soul in in any situation even in captivity a lot of the hostages actually used music as an outlet either and obviously in their own minds, >> right? Um mostly but sometimes there were even crazy um opportunities for for them to hear on the radio and and but mostly in their mind imagining remembering uh their favorite songs, you know, whether it be it could be Frank Sinatra, I'll do it my way and to give me strength. Okay, I'm going to do it my way and survive or just singing hatikva or um or or Friday night uh songs and and so a lot of that they they hummed it and and imagined it and and it really [snorts] helped them survive. >> Glenn Cohen is here. Um special forces psychologist, peak performance coach. Uh when is the book expected to be out? >> So sometime this year. >> Oh, in 26. >> Yeah. >> And no working title yet. >> Yeah. more or less it'll be pretty much like a post-traumatic growth uh how to survive and thrive. >> And does this have to be and you could answer this to the extent that you feel it's appropriate. Does this have to be really redacted or edited or looked at by your authorities in a very careful way? >> It will be. Yeah. But um they'll look at it also you know you know in bet they'll all take a look at it. >> Do you anticipate the book will be both in Hebrew and English? >> It'll start in English and then it'll be translated to >> at some point it'll be translated. And uh you mentioned to me that there is an amazing organization and um it's it's called Bisha Makar. It's called Bishakar. We're recommending to everybody to check it out at bhv i l.org. That's b like boy sh v like victor iil.org. What is this organization all about? >> So Bish Makaw the path for tomorrow is an incredible NGO. I've been volunteering there for for many years. >> Based where? in Israel and they take combat veterans uh from the IDF as a team about 15 members together and send them on a retreat. Don't send it, we take them on a retreat and sit with them in nature and help them process their combat experiences. And this is so important because most of the people uh after combat who are suffering from from trauma, they won't talk about it, they won't admit it. And in a team of let's say 15, you've got pretty much like maybe a third of them will be open about it and they are uh recognized of having PTSD. Uh the other third is okay, but the middle third are suffering but haven't been recognized. So when you take a team like this, everybody gets to talk about it and the ones who have been shy about it, they manage to get feedback from others and they they learn how to express themselves and they describe it. The vast majority of them describe these retreats as a lifechanging experience because they finally have the opportunity especially now after I mean this organization has been around for 20 years but now since this war it is so important because they're so much of the country is traumatized because not just the the combat soldiers themselves but the we're talking about 30 40 50 year old um people who who have a family with three four five kids and they're doing three four 500 days of reserve duty. So the families are also falling apart and so we teach them this new language, the emotional language and and so they come home and they can share that also with their with their spouses and and it really is impacting and changing. It's really excited. >> And how many retreats can they do a year? >> So we do about 150 retreats a year and there's a waiting list of 700 teams since the war that are on this list. But we need support to also train more facilitators to be able to get out there and have more retreats so that these people won't be waiting for. >> One of the saddest things we hear from people who are guests of ours who sit in the chair that you're in is uh is what's happening in Israel with soldiers and their spouses and their families. They come back from these experiences of hundreds of days with whatever they're doing no matter how severe or now or how how impactful it might be. And they're different people and they don't relate to their spouses the same way. they don't relate to their children the same way. I mean, I I would assume that Israel, I would hope, aside from the retreats and the organization you mentioned, I would assume that there's some type of infrastructure that's been created since the war to help with psychologists visiting these families and to help one-on-one with some of these soldiers. Are they doing that job behind the scenes? >> Well, sure. the the system has you know adapted itself and uh I mean the IDF has always done um post-traumatic processing work uh but now since the 7th of October they've they've ramped it up in ways never before so that every single unit that comes out when they finish fighting my son he was also he was just in in combat for two years and every time they'd come out of Gaza or Lebanon or Syria before they go home they would have to sit in a circle with their commander and with a psychologist and and and and talk about what they went through. That's the first stage. Afterwards, the the the system offers help to people who ask for help. And that's the tricky part of it because like I said before, some people who who do ask and they're recognized with PTSD, they get they get treatment, but the problem is the ones who don't ask for it. >> Yeah, understood. Boy, oh boy. I'll tell you, a lot of work to be done. uh a lot of lives to be repaired after all of this and um there's just so much that uh that needs to happen and I hope I hope that the Israeli government and the army in fact you know as you described they're stepping up in this in this role but I we don't realize to what degree they need to >> yeah no we need so much more in the beginning of the 7th October like the help that we needed was you know equipment and and now it's the soft side we all the country and and Jews around the world that's what we need to do >> you know a commander sat in your chair air a few weeks ago and described his 500 days in Gaza and he's got three little kids at home and he he sat and talked about the experience like no big deal and it reminded me and I I would love your perspective on this. I had a friend Nathan Goldwer who fought in the Umipper war um and he was in the World Trade Center on on uh September 11th and I saw him a few weeks later. I've told this story on the air many times. I saw him a few weeks later and I said, "How are you doing? I heard you in the World Trade Center." You know, so he says, "I'll tell you." Uh the the first plane hits, I put my pen down on my desk and I walked down the steps. I left the building. The guy next to me, [laughter] he did the same thing. And he's in therapy for, you know, for for the past six months. Meaning, of course, he wasn't making fun of those who found it to be a traumatic experience. But he had the resilience to literally start his day the next morning as if it was any other day while colleagues of his, you know, needed months and years of repair. And I'm wondering if you could put that in perspective for us. >> Well, first of all, 70% of people will experience a traumatic experience at some time in their lives. And out of those uh only about um between 10 and 15% will actually develop PTSD. >> Wow. >> So, you know, it depends on how you want to look at it. So if you want to say okay this is a terrible phenomena we have to help them yes let's focus on the 15% who need help and that's terrible but on the other hand 85% are not and and which which means that we have this inherent ability to cope even with traumatic situations and not only that some people out of those uh 75 or 85% who won't experience PTSD some of them will even experience PTG which is post-traumatic growth from a traumatic experience And that is a gamecher because once you realize that the next time you're in a traumatic situation, if you know that you can feel, okay, this is terrible. It's traumatic, but there's also an opportunity for growth here. That makes you almost invincible. >> What do we say? What doesn't kill me makes me stronger. >> Exactly. And it's it really is true. >> So if I told you that I pulled everybody in the World Trade Center and 85% of them were able to start their day the next day relatively normal, that would not shock you. Well, that >> right not the next day. >> Yeah, exactly. The next day it it wouldn't it first of all it would it would surprise me >> but a month later you might be able to believe it. >> And and even then like to to literally it is important to in order to grow you actually have to feel the pain and you have to suffer it to to start the next day as a business as usual. That's not the best uh uh approach. The best approach is okay. Yeah. Like like a read as opposed to the oak to actually feel okay this is hard. I bent down, you know, but to bounce to bounce back afterwards to feel the pain uh to cry a bit and then and then to move on. That's that's the best uh approach. Not to keep it in as if nothing happened. >> You're a ball player. Does organized sports help with people? >> Oh, sure. Definitely. Any type of physical activity, sports, being out in nature, big time. Big time. That's, you know, using your body, that's one of the the most important channels um to to cope with uh with trauma. So it might not be strange for instance if you're dealing one-on-one with soldiers going through these difficult times to recommend the gym or recommend some type of physical regimen. >> Definitely big time and actually you know guys who find it difficult to actually verbalize their feelings for them actually to get it out of their system uh by you know running or or doing anything physical being in the gym any type of physical exertion that is a really good outlet especially for those people who are not so verbal. >> Wow. Unbelievable. Um when you speak you obviously speak on this topic but there are other topics you speak about within this realm. Correct. >> Yeah. Even though I mean I have a whole method of uh the elite method for leadership which I uh came up with during my tenure in in the Mossad and I do executive coaching and team building leadership training with the elite method. But uh but I do that plus now the focus is on the the the hostages and how we can move from not just surviving difficult times but actually to to thrive. Uh so I'm you happy to touch move and inspire any audience out there. I feel like I'm on a mission because so many of us need this >> and we'll give your information in a moment but I'm curious. I mean you look back are most of the hostages doing all right? Are are they doing okay as a group? So all in all, I would say every single one of they went through a traumatic experience and it's a trauma they'll never forget it. It's part it's going to be part of their narrative. Um and some of them are are are suffering uh from PTSD. Some some of them are have some symptoms and you know maybe some flashbacks and and have difficulties but all in all um most of them are are moving on and even bouncing forward and finding a new meaning. many of them, the 148 first ones who came out, they were going around the world with a new mission to help bring back the the other 20 that were left behind. Um, but all in all, now that the other 20 and 168 are back, they're they're finding the way little by little, a slow process of the road to recovery, and they're and and with the help of a good support system, whether it be u their their friends and family, that is critical and uh and that's what's helping them get back on the road to recover. Did you meet the grandmother who was abducted and put on the golf cart? And uh we've seen that video, that scene of her basically with a smile on her face as all this was happening. >> Sure. We met all of them. >> And she was able to maintain that disposition it seems throughout most of the time, right? >> Yeah. I I I won't go into specific details of of one specific person, but uh all in all, you'd really be shocked to see how some people not only that, but they would say if I could go back in time to October 6th and decide not to go to the kibuts and save myself 500 days in captivity or not to buy the ticket to the Noah festival and save 730 days in captivity, quite a few of them said to me, I wouldn't change a thing. >> What? >> Yeah, I know. It sounds unbelievable. an incredible but quite a few >> because this was a positive life-changing experience for them. >> Yeah. The experience itself was traumatic and terrible but as a result of that as a result of them being able to survive that they discovered things about themselves that they had no idea that they were capable of now. >> So when we call them heroic we're being accurate. >> Well um yeah. Yeah. >> Not heroic in a military sense but heroic in terms of what they were able to persevere and become. >> Yeah. The Hebrew word gibbul is relevant because gioul the root of it is lit gabel to overcome. And so they overcame incredible >> circumstances and not only did they survive but they managed to grow from it and they say I'm now a 2.0 version of myself >> many again not 100% I want to make it clear so don't get me wrong there are people who are still suffering and having a tough time but there are quite a few who feel that they've grown from it and they wouldn't change this experience. when they are honored and receive awards from you know dinners and you know the they go to the white house etc one might think that they would feel guilty that like why am I being recognized but the reality is that if they have the self-confidence you just described they're being recognized for having persevered through all this >> yes the the while there were still live hostages back they felt guilty but now that everyone's back they some of them uh feel that they deserve it because they feel proud of themselves some of them are all of them have become celebrities against their will. Some of them >> are enjoying the status. Some feel a bit shy about it, >> but uh I I would say that they all they deserve this. They're amazing. They've stepped up and they showed and proved to all of us that we're all capable of much more. >> And we spoke with the father of the remaining hostage and we pray for his remains to be back as soon as possible. >> Maybe hopefully will. >> And the parents, I mean, we spoke to them. They're so strong. It's unbelievable. And and they do feel the support of the country. And I would think that I I would hope that the hostage families did did recognize the support they were getting from around the world and maybe even the hostages themselves, even if it was postf facto, discovered that the entire Jewish world and some many non-Jews were really rooting for them. >> Let me tell you about that. That's really fascinating because what happened was all the rallies and the demonstrations, the the goal of them was to have an impact on the on the governments. They didn't realize that they were actually having an impact on the hostages. I heard from these 1068 who came out. So many of them said that they actually were connected somehow to the media. They saw TV. They heard on the radio. They saw people in the hostage square in in Central Park in Capitol Hill and they literally saw people fighting for them and that gave them strength. So, every person now listening to this who who was part of one of these either physically out there or just supporting in some way, you should know that you had a direct impact on helping these surv these hostages survive, which is amazing. >> Unbelievable. Feel free to contact Glenn Cohen and his crew to have him speak um uh for your group. What is the easiest way for people to reach you? >> Uh my website uh glennycoen.com. Glenn with two N's hyphen Cohen.com. >> Glenn N- Cohen Cohen.com. That's the website. And uh I do remind you that Glenn Cohen highly recommends that we support, not just read more about research Bishakar, but actually support Bishakhar. And every penny counts, obviously. And these retreats are expensive, I assume. >> Oh yeah, everyone. It's $50,000 for a retreat. >> 5. >> Yeah. Wow. Uh, go to the website Bsh V as in victor iil.org. bsh v i l.org. Glen Con, is there anything you'd like to add, sir? >> Just to remember, no matter what difficulty, we can do this. We are all capable of much more than we imagine, especially the Jewish people, because we are survivors. And that's what we've been doing for thousands of years. And the the spirit of the Holocaust survivors should also be with us to know that they are not just a story from the past. All the hostages remembered they a lot of them read Victor Frankle's man's search for meaning and they applied the coping techniques that he and the other survivors used in captivity. So this is our story and it's the jury story and we're going to keep on surviving and thriving together unified. So, so you from your professional standpoint feel his book is a key text. >> Completely. It's so relevant. So relevant. >> Wow. An honor to meet you. >> A pleasure. >> Thank you so much for being here today. >> My pleasure. >> I look forward to being in touch and let us know what we could do for these causes that are dear to your heart. And certainly when the book comes out, I hope you visit us in person again. >> You got it. >> Thank you so much, Glenn Cohen. A very, very special Wednesday morning at JM in the AM.