From Succot to Elephants and More: A Conversation with Rabbi Dr. Natan Slifkin

Uh the founder of the Biblical Museum of Natural History is Rabbi Natan Slifkin. He's with us live via telephone. You can go to the website biblicalnatural history.org. There is a donate button where you could support his efforts and you get an idea from this conversation just how incredible those efforts are. If you are traveling to Israel for Sukkot, I have some good friends who left yesterday for Israel. A lot of people like to go for Yum Kipper and Sukkot. If you're traveling or if you're in Israel, we have a lot of listeners in Israel. Uh you can visit the Biblical Museum of Natural History, there's a visit tab at the top of the website, biblicalnaturalhistory.org. Take advantage Katimatan. Welcome back to JM in the AM. >> Hey, it's good to be on with you again. >> Appreciate that. Uh, so yesterday you sent me a um and I'm sure you sent to many others a photograph I think it was a photograph of um an elephant and a suka was a top the elephant and you said to me that you could explain the significance of this. So I ask you to please tell our audience about the elephant and its uh uh and it and the suka that it features on top of it. >> Well, two sukot actually, one on top of it and one next to it. It wasn't AI by the way. There was no AI in that picture. Um so so the uh the Gamarra talks about using an elephant as the wall of a suka. There is a a dispute in the Gamarra about whether that's allowed or not. And uh according to the opinion that forbids it. Uh it says you cannot use an animal as the wall of a suka. So the question is why? So there's two theories as to why. One reason one theory is that it's because the animal might die and you know then it collapses and you haven't got the wall of the suk anymore. And the other theory is that it's because the animal might run away. So the gamarra talked about what is the difference between these two views. What is the practical ramifications? So the gamarra said the difference would be if the animal concerned is an elephant because an elephant can still uh run away uh but if an elephant dies it's still going to be sent to tall right it's still going to be tall enough to be the wall of a suka. So the so that's how the uh elephant comes up in the gamarra as being the wall of a suka and uh the gimar notes however if you tie the elephant in place which is difficult but can be done with chains then uh then according to all opinions it is valid as the wall of a suka. >> So um and then the also discusses putting a suka on top of an animal. So uh whether you can do that and it says uh you can but um but you're only allowed to go into it in coloid. You can't climb into it on kag itself only in coloid. So we have our elephant which originally we ordered the elephant as an example of just one of the wonders of creation. You know the the gamar says that if you see an elephant you make a bra on it. Blessed is the one who makes extraordinary creatures. And then last year we dressed up our elephant as a Greek battle elephant for kaneka. And originally it was just going to be for Fanica, but he looked so he looked so great in his armor with his battle power that we decided to leave him like that all year. And then this year he is an elephant that's a Greek battle elephant that also has a suka on top and a suka built onto his side. >> Unbelievable. Um I think it was our friends at Naot Kadum that used to have a camel with an with a suk on top. Is that does that ring a bell or make sense? >> Oh yeah, I know. I I know they I know they built different types of sukas. I don't think they did the camel. I seem to recall they were just doing other types of sukas. You know how how big it can be, how small it can be and so on, >> right? >> Um when I went at least there was no there was no camel. >> Was there any did they do it on top of any animal that you recall? >> I do not believe so. I do not believe so. >> I don't know why I Yeah. >> Um difficult to do that. >> I don't know why I have this recollection. I got to think this through. What they put it on top of it wasn't a camel. I got to think this over. Is there any other creature and you would know where one is hahically obligated to say the bra of mish habriot? >> So the gamarra also mentions a monkey. >> Wow. >> Also mentions doing it on a monkey. And uh the question is it when the gamar mentions an elephant and a monkey is it just giving those as uh examples of exotic animals or is it specifically an elephant or a monkey? >> Right? So that is the uh that is the subject of this view >> and one of the things you've taught us over the years is that very often um familiarity is a very important part of the tradition of animals in our tradition. You know were they in the cere were these animals in the country that we were living in? Were they in Erit Israel? Are there references to them or not references to them because they were or were not inherit Israel? What is the Jewish experience in the Holy Land and in the diaspora with the elephant? >> Right? So that's talking about, you know, in Tanakh when it's mentioning an animal, you know, is something people are familiar with in the wild, right? >> So it's got to be an animal that that was in these parts. But when you're talking about an animal that was um uh domesticated, right, or imported, so it could be an exception. So for example, there were no monkeys here, but the uh in it speaks about how ships that came in bringing monkeys and uh to decorate his uh to adorn his palace. And it also says that elephant ivory was brought in, tusks of elephants. And that's what made his throne out of he made them out of elephant ivory. came out and uh but then in times of the Gar you know there's a lot of references to elephants which they didn't live live wild here uh but they were imported right obviously famously with the makabin going back to Khan right the Syrian Greek army >> right >> used war elephants and then uh it was something that that people were you know not you didn't see them all the time but certainly people knew all about them and they were occasionally used uh either for like gifts for kings or or for And excuse my tangential curiosities, but but what country on this planet at the moment, I I have to assume you know this, uh does have the largest population of wild elephants? Like the elephant now is associated with which specific part of the world? >> Well, yeah, you got two types of elephants, right? You got African elephants and Indian elephant elephants. And the way you tell them apart is very simple, right? If you're in Africa and you see an elephant, that's an African elephant. And if you're in India and you see an elephant, that would be an Indian elephant. >> Um, overall, African elephants are much bigger. And uh, I've seen them in many occasions in Africa. It's actually, I have to say, it's very intimidating. >> I mean, normally I'm not I don't have I don't really have much fear when it regards to animals, but elephants can be uh extremely intimidating >> only because you like do a mock charge, >> right? They could charge and they're large and and with a with with any type of small with any type of small movement, they could do damage to you. >> Exactly. So, in other words, if you watch if you're in a you know, a safari jeep and you you're watching lions, you know, you're completely safe. As long as you sit down in the jeep, you're complete totally safe because the lion just for some reason just sees you as part of the jeep. Uh but with elephants, it can be risky. you know, they're much more intelligent and um usually they're fine, but if they are angry or whatever, then they really can cause uh you know, they can be fatal and you know, just the size is just so overwhelming when you're right up close to an African elephant. Now, the ones you see in zoos usually are Indian elephants, which are much smaller. Uh African elephants, which is also the kind we have a life size at the museum, they are substantially bigger and considerably more intimidating. >> What about crocodiles and alligators? Do those intimidate you? No, they what >> do those intimidate you? Crocodiles and alligators. Oh. >> Uh, it's funny actually. I once went alligator wrestling. A seven foot alligator. Um, he was okay. Uh, crocodiles are more dangerous. Certainly a lot more dangerous than alligators. Yeah. But um, again, yeah, I see them in the wild in Africa and as long as you you keep your distance on land or if you're in the boat, then uh, you're okay. You must have great ad to go uh >> you must have great admiration for for crocodile trainers or or in your field it's not that big of a deal once you are trained to be a trainer. >> Um yeah well I don't know. I mean you know actually a guy got um got killed by one just last week. >> Wow. >> In New Guinea. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> And that was a crocodile not an alligator. >> Actually I'll tell you a story. There was uh there was a at a certain zoo in Israel last year. So there was a the zookeeper who was in charge of the crocodiles. He was not acting according to official protocol, should we say, and he ended up falling into the enclosure during feeding time and he was attacked by a crocodile. So uh he screamed for help. Luckily, thank God, there was a security guard nearby who came in with with a gun. Uh the uh the zookeeper was uh he survived. He was injured. He's not yet been able to return to work. Uh the crocodile has returned to work, but now he works for us. He was uh shot and killed and we had him we had him stuffed and mounted and now he's in our museum. >> And and and that crocodile during his life weighed about how much? >> O well I don't know. I didn't want to ask him personal questions. Um >> could it be 100 pounds? >> Yeah, a crocodile can Oh, no. Way more really. I mean this is a 10ft crocodile. So this would have been several hundred pounds. Uh the biggest crocodiles, you know, they can get it to 20 feet long and you're talking probably uh uh way over a ton. >> Unbelievable. Rabatan Sliffkin, the zoo rabbi with us live via telephone. The Biblical Museum of Natural History in addition to supporting them, which we recommend. You can go to their website and set up a visit for Sukot. I know a lot of people in this audience going to be heading to Israel soon or might be in Israel already. Um you know where I thought of you, by the way. First of all, this time of year, I maybe I'm maybe I'm being too sentimental, but this time of year when we do focus on the creation of the world and the incredible, you know, the incredible things that God continues to do for us and how he's, you know, in charge of all and every movement we make is credit to him, etc., etc. And I think this time of year, all those sentiments are are much stronger than the average time of year, at least in my in my mind. Um, and I was thinking of this because, and I'm sure you'll appreciate this because I was watching this video. One of the benefits of being on the internet and in the internet era is that there are a lot of really interesting, good educational videos out there. There's plenty of junk as well. I I acknowledge that. But I when you find yourself watching a really interesting thing, especially one that just emphasizes the incredible um uh um acts of creation, it's just remarkable. And why do I have this this in mind? cuz I thought of you as I was watching a video of a giraffe. I am always fascinated by giraffes. Some people say because of my height, but I am always fascinated by giraffes by giraffes. >> And when they when they when they bend down to drink, God has given them, right? God has given them a mechanism in their body that kicks in, right? >> So that they don't they don't faint. Right. essentially if they if they put their head down the way they do >> the issue with it, right? They have massively powerful hearts in order to get the the blood all the way up to their head. So, normally if they were to just, you know, put their head down and the blood pressure would uh, you know, would blow their brains out. So, they have this sequence of valves in their neck that gradually reduces the blood flow to the brain. >> I mean, how does someone like you view that in the in the, you know, in the in the bigger picture, so to speak? It's amazing. I mean I >> it's extraordinary dude. The amount. >> Yeah. >> No, the amount of >> no end to the uh the one does the incredible aspects of uh of the natural world. >> For sure. >> Give me another one. Give me >> one. You mentioned your you mentioned I mentioned your height. Um because you are you are considerably tall. >> Yeah. >> One of my favorite pictures of you is at the museum with our giant snake Shaina, right? >> Cuz uh she makes me look so small. could say that again. Um, give me another one. I just said giraffe. Give me another one where God literally has built in a mechanism in order to, you know, because the natural um uh the the natural movement of an animal or or or its natural instinct would put it in danger, but God made sure to give it some type of fail safe. Is there another example as fascinating as a giraffe? >> Um, um, I mean, there's all kinds of things. Uh well, we're talking about elephants. Oh, here's a good one. I mean, how every aspect of the animal is relevant is relevant. Why do elephants have big ears? >> Yeah. Why? >> So, the reason is because they're they're very big, right? And the bigger you are, the less surface area you have relative to your mass, which means that it's very hard to get rid of excess heat from your body. So they have to have very big ears with lots of blood veins running through the ears that they can flap and then the blood gets cooled down and circulates through the rest of the body keeping them cool. >> Unbelievable. So God gave elephants a natural air conditioning system. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> It's unbelievable. >> By the way, speaking about going back to the crocodiles about the crocodiles, I forgot to mention, you know, crocodiles used to live wild here in South till about 120 years ago. In what part of the holy land? >> Well, the last ones were in, you know, a crocodile is called tanin in in mentioned in uh and yescoll speaks about parro as being like the great tannin of the river Nile. So tan which is near quesary was the very last place in where there were crocodiles. The last of them were hunted at the turn of the 20th century. >> I thought Tanin was a snake. Well, it depends on the context. Sometimes it means snake, sometimes it means whale, and sometimes it means crocodile. So, you know, it depends entirely on the context. But in in the context of the Tesco where he's speaking about it as symbolizing paro and as being the top predator in the river Nile, there is clearly the uh the Nile crocodile. >> Having in mind what we're going to read on Monday afternoon, are you surprised by Yona's ability to survive the episode with the whale? Well, that would have to be uh definitely read as involving a nest because obviously there's no uh oxygen down there. Uh actually, earlier this year, I uh found myself fully clothed in the ocean um because there was I got a report from one of my friends in the nature authority that a whale had washed the sha ash on and they were about to bury it. So, I zoomed on down there, didn't have time to get a bathing suit and just uh jumped into the ocean next to this enormous whale. It was really extraordinary experience. >> Where are the photos of that? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll share them with you. I I've posted them. >> How much do you think that How much mention How much do you think that whale weighed? >> How much do you think that whale weighed? >> I mean, the biggest whales could weigh over well over 100 tons. This wasn't one of the biggest. It was only about 50 ft long. So, um I'm guessing about probably about 50 tons. 40 to 40 50 tons. 40 50 on >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible being next to it. Really extraordinary. Um yeah, we have videos about it as they were, you know, we were hauling as they were bringing machinery to haul the whale out of the ocean. We uh we did some videos with it and we have them on on uh on show at the museum. I should mention by the way, Sukus is our most craziest, busiest time of the year. So, anyone wants to come should must book in advance. not to just show up. They have to book in advance, >> which they can do on the website, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, they can do on the website. And of course, right after Sukus, we've got Paras Noah. And uh we've expanded our exhibit for that. We have over a hundred um artistic models of Noah's Arc from all around the world. Really beautiful, unique, unusual things. The most out of the ordinary one is >> uh we have so well I have one from the uh Amazon rainforest made by a tribe out of out of rubber from a tree which uh features all the rainforest animals. I've got one from um a Chinese arc showing carved out of wood in the shape of a Chinese dragon boat with all the uh animals from China. So, you know, really extraordinary to see how every uh you know, all these different different versions of it from around the world >> you never met. >> And of course, we have all our weird weird and wonderful weird and wonderful animals for people to uh to hold and encounter and experience. >> Oh, I can vouch for how great an experience that is. You never made a pitch to try to get You never made a pitch to try to get the dead whale on exhibit in uh at your museum. >> Yeah. So, we looked into it actually cuz I was looking into having the uh getting the skeleton mounted. Um I looked into what it would cost and it turns out that to uh you know to dig you bury it for 2 years and then you have to dig up the bones and clean them up and mount them and everything and uh I was quoted somewhere in the region of uh of close to 2 million shekels. So, I did have to pass pass on that one. >> Where do they bury it? It's >> uh on the beach near Ascalon. Wow. It must take quite an effort for something that weighs 50 tons. >> Yeah. They had a digger. It was uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> The chain snapped actually. They were hauling out the beach and they everyone will have to stand back and you could leave at one point the chain just snapped and it went flying out. >> Unbelievable. Uh Rab Slipkin, you have any requests? Are you looking for anybody to bring anything from the United States to Israel? like I don't know a shark or something else that's waiting for you here in this area. >> Um yes, funny funny you should mention that. Yes, we actually do have a 9 foot shark in LA waiting to get to the museum. So if anybody is making aliyah from LA and his room in a container for a 9 foot shark, we would love to take advantage of that opportunity. >> Yeah, that's the lift folks. That's what we call it. >> Alive. It's not alive. >> It's not alive. By the way, I don't know if I've told you I don't know if I've told you this or not. I've been in homes that have shark tanks. >> Oh, yeah. Wow. Very nice. >> I mean, that's got to be a couple of sharks for the museum. >> That's got to be exceptional, right? I mean, how many people in the world have a shark tank in their home, >> right? Yeah, definitely. >> And those sharks, I mean, they they're like 2 feet long. They never they never grow much much more than that, right? There are sharks that remain around that around that. Well, Uh well, probably their growth is probably stunted because they're being kept in an aquarium. >> So that stops them growing too big. >> That happens. >> Um yeah, we got a hammer Yeah, we got a big hammerhead shark on display at the museum. He's about 10 ft long. >> Are there sharks off the uh off the coast of Israel? >> Yes, I've been swimming with them. In fact, um the there's a power point a power station near Kada which the water is very warm coming out of the power station that attracts sharks. Uh dusky sharks. They get to be about 12 ft long which are not generally known to attack people. So I actually went in the sea with them without even touching them as they were swimming past me. Um but then unfortunately somebody did get killed and eaten last year by them. So now it's uh illegal to go into the water with them. How many varieties of sharks are there? >> Oh, many dozens, perhaps hundreds. >> Being the whale shark, which can get to be uh 50 ft long. I'm just staring as we speak. I'm I'm staring at the mounted jaws of a whale shark. Um the small whale shark. So, these jaws are only about 3 ft across. Has about 2,000 teeth in the jaw. But whale sharks just eat plankton. The teeth are tiny and they're they're perfectly harmless. >> So only a select few of of the shark family are killer sharks, >> right? You know, great whites, tiger sharks, things like that. >> Boy, you don't you don't watch local news here cuz if they see a shark, no matter what it is, they're assuming it's out for blood, >> right? >> Boy, I'll tell you. Unbelievable. >> Well, you know, in New York, Long Long Island, you get the great whites there. Oh, so those are real sharks. And before that power station was built, before that power station was built, were there no sharks off the coast of Israel? >> Uh, rarely seen. They were rarely seen, but the power station really attracts them. >> Unbelievable. >> Just that particular area by Hideera. >> Yeah, I get it. This is incredible. Uh, so if you're in a lot, you're not going to see a shark. >> Uh, you might. You might. >> Really? >> Always a possibility. Hallelujah. >> Might be a whale. There was a blue whale seen off a lot a few years ago. >> Unbelievable. Raban Sliffkin invites everybody to the Biblical Museum of Natural History. It's in Beth Sheamesh, Israel. Everybody, if you're in Israel, especially if you have kids and teenagers, do yourself a favor and spend some time at the museum. If with Sukus approaching, in order to spend time at the museum, you've got to reserve an advance. There is a visit tab on the website, biblicalnaturalhistory.org. biblicalnaturalhistory.org. We are suggesting you donate to the museum. I've been there. I can highly recommend it. And if you donate, then maybe next time Rabbi Slifkin will be able to buy the whale. Yeah, why not? Uh if he if he gets enough donations, go to the website biblicalnaturalhistory.org. biblicalnaturalhistory.org. So, we wish everybody a happy, healthy, and sweet new year. What what do we wish? What do we wish a founder of a of a biblical museum of natural history? What type of year do we wish you, Rabbi Sliffkin? >> Oh, one in which all the airlines fly. >> Oh, that's a good one. That could go for even people who don't take care of animals. >> But that's a good wish. That's a good wish for the new. Any anything else you'd like to add? >> Uh just uh safety for all our island. My son's in Gaza right now. So, uh, safety for our soldiers. That's what we want. >> Cuz many of us around the world forget that there's still soldiers in very dangerous situations. >> Yeah. >> To say the least. Kakote to you. Absolutely. Best to your family. An easy fast. I look forward to reuniting with you in the Holy Land. >> Thank you. To you, Tadara, Rabbi Natankin, the zoo rabbi, if you will, here on a Wednesday morning at JM in the AM.