Chanie Wilschanski's Book "This Can't Be Normal" Featured on JM in the AM

Honey Wholeshansky is with us live via telephone, author of a brand new book entitled This Can't Be Normal. It has a um a stripe on the cover that says for school leaders, what to do when success starts to feel like survival. Honey Wholeshansky is a leadership mentor, keynote speaker, and founder of Schools of Excellence, where she helps school leaders move from carrying the invisible weight of leadership to building rhythms, cultures, and systems that sustain excellence. She hosts the Schools of of Excellence podcast and advises global leadership teams, and she is with us live via telephone. Honey Wholeshansky, a pleasure to welcome you to JM in the AM. >> Thank you for having me, Nachum. It's a pleasure to be here. I appreciate it. >> Thank you very much for joining us. Um in general, leadership is a very complicated role. Why does it seem it's more complicated and even more difficult in an education arena? >> Sure. So, leadership um at its core, whether you're looking at in school leadership, community leadership, parenting, marriage, any leadership role, as people become more and more successful, what we're not recognizing is the invisible and kind of internal tradeoffs of the weight of leadership and that decision-making that happens behind the scenes that nobody sees. So, if you look at it in the context of leadership, there's all of these things that leaders are managing. There's anticipating problems. There's tracking what's going to happen. There's looking at teachers who look kind of burnt out and you're thinking, "Oh, maybe let me take care of that." In parenting, you're looking at, "Oh, these two kids are about to start a fight. Let me go sit next to them." In marriage, you're looking at, "Oh, one second, we feel a little disconnected. Let me initiate a conversation or something." So, it's all the things that nobody sees, but all need to happen to keep that level of success moving. >> Wow. And uh all of these relationships or all of these leadership roles as you just described, it's like it it it sounds like based on what you're saying, you're you're always trying to stay ahead of the game, right? Think of the next step, think of, you know, uh uh uh uh of what needs to be done down the road. And as that increases, as all of those factors continue to grow or continue to multiply, the I assume that's where the weight of leadership really starts to begin to be felt, right? It just it it could be a debilitating experience if you allow all of that, the weight of all of that responsibility to get you down. >> Yeah, so it it it's suffocating. One of the things I write in my book is that it's it's one more decision. It's it's suffocating under the weight of I have to do this one more thing. I have to send this one more email. I have to stay ahead. And so what I write about in the book is I introduce the concept of rhythm-based leadership. And the way that I define a rhythm, it's a repeated intentional pattern of behavior that creates stability inside of yourself or the culture. And so what I talk about is that if we keep consistently try to stay ahead, we're never going to be able to stay ahead cuz there's always something else that's coming on the horizon, whether that's Yom Tov, an outside pressure, a new legislation thing, it's something happening in the city, something that happens in your neighbor in your shul in your community. And so it's less about constantly trying to head and stay ahead and it's looking at what are the rhythms of return that could restore me? What are my anchors in my life that when I return to them, they ground me, they keep me present, they anchor me in what's actually [clears throat] important in the life that I'm trying to build. >> And how do those help ease the stress and anxiety that comes along with everything you just mentioned? >> Yeah, so when you understand what your anchors are, right? So if we look for example, like someone can have an anchor where they understand that let's say let's say we look at shabbat, right? Shabbat is a an anchor in our in our lives where every single week it doesn't matter what time candle lighting is. It doesn't matter what's happening in your house or how ready your house is. Shabbos is here and all of the sudden the entire home and the energy shifts. And so Shabbos is something that's so predictable and reliable that we we don't even realize that it's an anchor in our lives. But we can look at that as a map and say, "Okay, where else can I create an anchor in my life?" So for example, my husband and I have a Tuesday morning anchor, right? Right after right after this conversation. Every Tuesday we meet for breakfast. Every single Tuesday. And the reason we do that is it anchors our relationship and what's important to us. We sit down, we have a conversation, what's the state of the union of our house, responsibilities, our kids, our life, what's going on. And so it's a predictable return. We don't have to negotiate it every week. We know Tuesday at 8:00 we're leaving the house, we're going out for breakfast. >> And when you do that, it helps ease the burden. When you do that, it helps what? Clear the schedule or helps >> Great question. Great question. So what it does is because there's a predictable return, you don't have to constantly try to track everything in your head. You know that there's a place Oh, Tuesdays we're going to have that conversation. Tuesdays is when I'm going to bring that up. Tuesdays is when we're going to talk about that. And that's just one conversation. Go ahead. >> now now I'm starting to get it. So now So now how does this translate? We'll talk about the workplace in general, but how does it translate into the school leadership role? Especially, you know, it's funny. If one really analyzes and looks at the way that administrators and principals, heads of school, especially today, you know, what they need to navigate and and I mean they're they're spinning their wheels constantly. And I'm not saying they're not making progress, they are, but but it seems like that they're just, you know, they're ready to go completely out of control. There's so much to cover and so many things to do. So now give me an example of an anchor in the school environment that helps manage that. >> Yes, I'll share a couple of rhythms. One thing that I talk about is the rhythm of closure. So, there's no such a thing as I could stay and work for another 5 hours and then I'm going to catch up. That's That's an illusion of one day I'll be able to catch up. >> And [clears throat] so, what what I advise leaders on is you need a rhythm of closure where you pre-decide in advance the day ends at 5:00. Not because my work is finished, but because the day is. And tomorrow there is more work. And so, when we understand that notion, we stop negotiating with ourselves every day. I'll stay for 10 more minutes. I'll stay for 5 more minutes. That's what leads to the constant burnout and then that breaks our brains. We We We We stop having the ability to think. That's just one. I can give a couple >> No, no, I'm I'm laughing because because it's like it's sort of like and and I've been doing this for years obviously in in my role and my capacity and off the air it's endless. The work is endless and following up is endless and and it's just funny because like someone will say have you finished work? And I'm like, finished work? Like like it's never it's never finished. We're just looking for for times to actually, you know, continue doing it. You know what I'm saying? >> Yes. Yes. >> And and and by the way, and Honey Wholshansky's with us, the name of the book is This Can't Be Normal. Don't you really need a discipline? Like there are a lot of really prominent um effective principles that would have trouble implementing your your 5:00 p.m. rule for instance. >> So, I love that you asked this question because the reason that I call these things rhythms is because I I want to invite leaders to stop looking at this from a place of, you know, Navy SEAL disciplined leadership where you would anyways and you got to hustle through and this is the timeline. It It's more about these are the rhythms of return that restore you when you do them. So, you're not looking at it as I'm being punished. I have to leave at 5:00 or, you know, oh my god, you you leave every Tuesday at 8:00. What if you leave at 8:05, right? Like it's less about worrying about the minutia of the details, but more about understanding when I return to these rhythms, I'm restored. I feel anchored. I'm grounded. I get to be me, the mother, the wife, the friend, the daughter, the leader, who I actually want to live in this beautiful world and one life that I have. >> Because no matter what, when you return to work the next day, it's all going to be there. Yeah, it's all going to be there to be done. I mean, it has to be done and and it will be done. It just you're you're you're you're going to walk in after having Excuse me, a much more relaxing overnight. I don't want to say unproductive overnight cuz they can still be productive, but it'll >> Like define productive, Nahum, right? Like when you come home at the end of the day, what are the other parts that restore you and give you meaning? Is coming home at the end of the day and spending and having tea with your spouse? Is that a rhythm that restores you and provides meaning? Work is a huge anchor of meaning in our life, absolutely, but it is not the only anchor of meaning. >> Right. The only thing I'm wondering still is is and I get it that you're in the education space and therefore you're speaking to principals, administrators, even I'm sure even teachers and others who are, you know, in these leadership roles in the field of education, but it really I mean, you can apply this to everything. You can apply this to every to leadership you be prime minister of a country and you need the anchors that you're that you're talking about. >> Yes. >> So. >> Yes. >> It's not just the education space. >> No, it it it goes across the different domains of leadership because what we're looking at is what to do when success starts to feel like survival. >> Right. >> In any bucket of your life. So you can have a beautiful marriage and still feel like, why do we still feel disconnected? You can feel like you're amazing parent and feel like I'm not integrated with my kids. My kids entered a new season. They're teenagers. I married off a child. I'm a grandparent now. I'm entering a new chapter. What are my rhythms going to be? I want to be a grandmother that's connected. I want to see my child my grandchildren more than twice a year. Okay, then you have to orchestrate your life around that. So you're not jumped to grandparents, but your actual grandparents that see your kids often. >> Right. Very good. Very good. So, you you have this book and and and I assume it's available everywhere, right? >> Yes, it's available wherever books are sold. Amazon, Walmart, Barnes & Noble online, wherever books are sold. Yeah. >> Chanie Wilschanski is the author, folks. Chanie, c h a n i e. And I'll do you a favor and I'll spell Wilschanski, so when you search it, it'll be easier for you. w i l s c h a n s k i. The book is called This Can't Be Normal: What to Do When Success Starts to Feel Like Survival. Now, you wrote 17 chapters in this book. And do you know which one I found the most intriguing, fascinating, and valuable? You ready for this? >> Yes. >> And I'm sure when I say it, you'll get it. The the the the chapter that I felt I didn't even know if it if it really belonged in here, and you'll speak to that in a second, but I thought was so important, was the chapter on generosity. >> Oh, yeah. >> And now explain to the audience Explain to the audience why in all of this, with all the machinations that you are revealing and describing when it comes to leadership and how to deal with it, why is generosity such an important one? >> Well, before I answer your question, if I may, I'm actually curious if you could share why did that chapter speak to you right now in this season of your life? >> Because I don't think people realize that that being generous, which we you know, we always talk about, you know, gratitude is the right attitude, etc. and all and and you know, and and and all that, you know, speaks especially in our tradition, it speaks to us, you know, constantly, but in this space, in the space of leadership, the need to be generous, the need to think generously, the need to, you know, be happy for those who are succeeding, um you know, I don't think that that's that that's something, you know, common enough for people to incorporate into that. >> Yeah, I'm I'm so glad you brought this up. So, I start off my chapter in generosity where I explain this word fargin. I'm actually curious, are you familiar with this word? >> Yes, sure. >> Okay, so I'll just explain to the audience. Fargin, there's a lot of different ways to explain it, but my definition is fargin is a soul deep exhale that says, "Your win adds goodness in the world and I'm grateful to witness it." Fargin is not just I'm happy for you and I'm letting it go and I'm happy you got the promotion and I didn't and whatever. No, no, no. I am lucky that I get to be the one that gets to see you shining your light, you getting the promotion, you getting whatever it is, and I get to watch that. That's what fargin means. And so, generosity in leadership and generosity we could look at it in the context of schools is there could be a lot of competition, competitiveness, all kinds of things that happen inside of schools. Generosity in leadership is not about how much you pay your teachers or how many bonuses or or whatever it is. It's do you give them latitude for their mistakes? Do you give them grace when they're learning? Do you understand the learning curve that comes? Are you aware that you were also once 19 and 20 and a little silly and stupid and made mistakes and now you're in your 50s and 60s and now it's your chance to pay it forward, right? So, and that's what generosity is because when we show up with that place of who do I want to be when pressure's here? There's always going to be a reason why you can't be generous, why you can't give extra 10 minutes, why you can't stay and mentor that person. And and they're justifiable. You can justify every one of those reasons, but is that who you want to be in the world? >> Right. And you know what I've noticed over the years, those who are those who are generous with their colleagues with their colleagues who they don't work with are the most successful ones. When a principal can go to another principal and say, "Look, I'm having this problem. You're very experienced, can you help me out? Can you discuss it with me?" And if they gladly respond that yeah, they'll be more than happy to sit down with them. I find those people are among the superstars in our community. >> Absolutely. And and and again, >> [snorts] >> the one of the rhythms that I talk about in the generosity chapter is the rhythm of gratitude, right? We were talking about before. But gratitude is not just saying thank you. Gratitude is actually expressing with specificity. Thank you for coming and doing this for me. I know that you were busy. I know you had competing priorities and you chose to show up and help me. >> Right. >> that. It's actually articulating to the person and you're showing them I know the cost of what it took you to do this. I see you. I witness it and I'm grateful for it. >> Yeah, very good. Well, the best part about your book in my opinion is that you offer a million suggestions in this entire space and and if anybody who reads it implements even one small one then they they they made a lot of progress. I'm sure you feel the same way that if someone takes this list, so to speak, of things that you're suggesting and things they can implement into their professional life and just incorporates one, it's a big victory. >> Absolutely. So we have mothers who have read this book, we have athletes who have read this book, school leaders, it's it's for anyone in a position of leadership who who has achieved success and wants it to stop feeling like they're in survival. >> Right, because the bottom line is that very very often the more successful one is, the more they feel they're drowning in their I think you put it that way, right? Drowning drowning in their success. >> Yes. Yes, in the invisible weight of success. >> Right. And that gives everyone, you know, pause to question is this what I really want? Like is this is this meaningful at all? You know, like this is not there's there's no meaning here. I've heard this from so many people, maybe as I get older it happens, right? Because of social media and there's more contact and people are more open about things. Um, you know, you hear it more and more. But you know, you have really successful people and they question, you know, is there any meaning behind this? You know, like I've done X, Y, and Z, and I've succeeded, you know, in all of this, whatever this is, whether it's a business world, education space, whatever it might be. And they question And they question like, you know, what what's the meaning behind all this? Is this what I want? Is this what I want to gain from it? Is this what I want my children and and everybody in my family to, you know, to associate me with? It's It's It's amazing how all of this has become a major question for a lot of people. But, as you point out, because there's the the the the the workload is so heavy now, this is what This is when these questions arise, right? When When times were simpler, these questions were not as potent. But, in a time like this, >> are enough of them. They were back then, also. I just think now the tradeoffs are invisible. You know, I write in the conclusion of my chapter, "Every year I read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl." >> The The what's in The what's invisible? >> The invisible tradeoffs. You don't realize what we're trading off. >> The tradeoffs. >> Back then, right? My grandmother, uh who raised her kids in Russian Soviet Union, right? They understood the tradeoffs that they were making. When we send our kids here, we might risk our lives. We don't realize the tradeoffs now, right? And And in his book, Man's Search for Meaning, he says, "People have enough to live by, but nothing to live for. They have the means, but no meaning." And so, when you have success, whether that's material success, social success, status, or whatever it is, the bigger question is, "What is the life I'm asking for? What will I sacrifice for it? What are the tradeoffs? What will I What will I sweat for? And is this worth it?" >> Freedom and luxury gives you less gives you less focus on tradeoffs. That's the bottom line. >> Absolutely, cuz they're becoming invisible. Thank you for saying that. And And they're still there. And that's what I hope this book helps people examine in their life. The tradeoffs are there. Are you recognizing that you're making them in real time? >> Your Your seminars must be amazing. I mean, are you Are you going around to schools and uh >> Yes, I do conferences. I speak at events. I do podcasts. uh we do a lot of different things. Um I am one person, so I also recognize the tradeoffs. I am one person, I still have young kids at home, and so I have to choose. I look I live by my words. I choose where I go speak, and I could be speaking way more often if I was unaware of the tradeoffs of missing bedtime, missing the couch moments, missing dinner time. I would have to miss all of that if I wanted to go speak wherever I was invited. >> And uh you the first position you had in the field of education was how long ago? How long ago did you start your first position in education? >> Sure, so I started working um 19 years ago. I was an assistant teacher, and I worked in uh Chabad of the Upper West Side by Rabbi Kugel in his preschool. That was my first job that I had. >> [snorts] >> 19 years. Yeah, I guess there's a lot to gain if you have 19 years of experience. >> Yes. Yes. >> the book is uh we're recommending the book not only for those of you in the education space, as I like to say, although it was written with the school leadership in mind, but it's really for anybody >> [snorts] >> who wants to enhance their life and get a little bit more control. The book is entitled This Can't Be Normal: What to Do When Success Starts to Feel Like Survival. It's written by Chanie Wilschanski. It is available everywhere. And as I said, Chanie, if if everyone who reads this book makes even one simple change in their life, it's a major victory. >> Thank you. >> Uh good luck with this, and thanks so much for joining us this morning. >> Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. >> A pleasure. More coming up. You're listening to a Tuesday morning edition of Jammin' in the AM. >> Mhm.