Calendaric trivia with Nachum Segal and Rabbi Dovid Heber on JM in the AM

Uh, we're going to get right into it with our with our Rabbi Dovid Heber. In addition to being the JM in the AM, calendaric consultant, he is the uh Kashrus administrator at the Star-K. He's spiritual leader of Khal Adas Yisroel Tzemach Tzedek in Baltimore, Maryland. He's also author of the book The Intriguing World of Jewish Time, which we always highly recommend. If you don't have it yet, make sure to search for it and get it. The Intriguing World of Jewish Time, Rabbi Dovid Heber. And Rabbi Heber, it's a pleasure to welcome Oh, and I Let me mention that today our segment on calendaric trivia is sponsored by our dear friends Carrie and Joshua Levine of West Hempstead in honor of their daughter Shoshana's upcoming marriage on June 1st to Seth Schlank, son of Eileen and Michael of Plainview, New York. And also in honor of the Levine family's dear friend Chava Siegel's recent marriage to Eli Walkenstein. Mazel tov, and I thank the Levine family. Rabbi Dovid Heber, a pleasure to welcome you back to JM in the AM. Good morning. Good morning. And good chodesh uh Yeah. >> coming up tonight as you mentioned. And hopefully your yontif went well. >> Yeah, I hope your yontif was wonderful. Ours was great, thank God. And uh here we go. We're going to jump right into it because the moment that you have to get into this, okay? You have to You have to bring yourself back to this night that I'm going to describe, Rabbi Heber. Cuz you're obviously going to be able to answer this question, but but you have to get it You have to be focused on the night that this happened. And I thought of you the moment it happened. I'm davening in a a very interesting minyan, a chassidic minyan, on Motzei Shabbos Chol HaMoed, okay? So, the three-day yontif has just ended. It's now Motzei Shabbos Chol HaMoed. Do you get it? Do you Are you in that space, Rabbi? >> Tricky night. Tricky night. >> very tricky night. A very tricky night. I am going to ask you to identify what each one of the gabbai bangs was for. And the reason I thought of you is because the guy by who's a real stickler, you you'd appreciate this guy by who's a real stickler in this congregation, the Kaddish ended, he banged purposely in rhythm, he banged on the table four times and then everyone started the silent Shmone Esrei. Rabbi Heber, can you identify and then we'll discuss why he did four I have a theory why he did four when he really didn't have to. Rabbi Heber, can you identify the four times on Motzei Shabbos Chol HaMoed? Okay, so the main two that were necessary and this is interesting because I had a discussion with my guy by right before Maariv, we'll get to that in a minute, but the two main ones were of course the same bracha Right. which were new to the moment >> Right. >> so to speak because >> Right. same bracha was the first time. Right. Ya'aleh v'Yavo even though we had said it >> Uh-huh. Right. on Chol HaMoed Shabbos Chol HaMoed, but it was part of the Shabbos davening and Yeah. we didn't have Chol HaMoed Shabbos Chol HaMoed. And then of course you had either he made it with a Chassidishe Shtiebel Right. >> they made Maariv at call >> Right. >> right. And I and and I would assume at Tachanun Tano Ah. So So first of all first of First First of all of course you you get a grade of 100 on the quiz. Of course you got it all right. But I was saying to myself that in theory, as you've just alluded to, he could have gotten away with two and or three, but I think he was worried that someone might think that one of those two or three was four at Tachanun Tano and therefore not realize that there was something else that had to be added or changed. So therefore he said, "You know what?" I mean I'm assuming this was going on in his head. He said, "You know what? I'm just going to go for broke. We'll do every possible bang there is and there'll be even less confusion." Do you agree with my theory, Rabbi Heber? I absolutely I agree so much with you that we think exactly alike? >> Wow. Because because my guy came over to me and said, "Should we not by my will announce it?" >> Right. Because you could be mafsik. You could you could quote unquote interrupt, so to speak. >> Right. In order that people know what to do. >> Right. So, he said to my guy said to me, "Should we Should I announce Atah Chonantanu um Yaaleh v'Yavo and the same bracha Yaaleh v'Yavo?" And I said, "Just do the same bracha and Yaaleh v'Yavo." Cuz Atah Chonantanu the regular of Shabbos, you don't need any reminder. >> special. And then of of course the now our shul the chazzan can announce it. We don't say Maran at all. >> Right. Um the shul doesn't say Maran at all. So, there's nothing really to announce. You know, you don't say, you know, no matter what. >> Yeah. The only >> Anyway, it was already the fourth day It was already the fourth day, so to speak. We already started the first day, second day, Shabbos. So, so that that even the guy didn't ask to do. So, he wanted three. I said just do two. Right. And I I would think that you could if you if you really wanted to stretch it and and you know, take to the extreme that I must remind the congregation, you could probably just announce Mechalkel Chaim or something like that or There's nothing wrong with that. Rav Lo Shia Mechalkel Chaim, you know, just to give a reminder. But you're right that that it that among the really necessary ones, it doesn't get to the top of that list. So, that I thought of you Motzei Shabbos Chol HaMoed. What do you think of that, huh? I'm I'm honored I'm honored. I thought of you Shvi'i shel Pesach because you would ask me a question about being the starif you know, adding to a minyan. Can you add to a minyan people Israelis >> Right. on on Yom Tov Sheini people who have been added to shul who are no longer keeping. So, I I on the on Shvi'i shel Pesach night, I always go to my favorite shailos in shul between Mincha and Maariv. But that came up on, you know, for Pesach. And you you were right up there in that list of of that discussion. But I but I must tell you two other shailas that you'll really appreciate. One was someone found the 10 pieces of chametz called chametz in their car. That's the chametz that they searched for. >> Right. And they found it they found it in pieces. >> forgot to burn it. Yes, they burnt it or they threw it in the box of other chametz that it somehow fell out. >> Right. So of course I told him to go burn it. The other you'll appreciate the story my this came from my daughter-in-law in Chicago about my granddaughter, my 5-year-old granddaughter. She she's looking through all of her her seder belongings and her so what she prepared and gone and she know she had I guess the haggadah and the afikoman bag and then my daughter-in-law sees what looks like a cookie. Oh my God. And this is erev Pesach, 2:00 in the afternoon erev Pesach. So my daughter-in-law says to my granddaughter, "What what's this?" She says, "We baked matzos in class." Oh my gosh. So I told my daughter-in-law call the teacher maybe like it's a piece of matzah again. The the teacher said that it was we we baked the little quarter called matzos in class. They were supposed to eat it for lunch, but as I said my granddaughter wanted her matzah from her chabura. She she's not meant to have it at the seder. She took it out. Anyway, they quickly got rid of it. I think my granddaughter was crying in the background. Oy oy oy. Anyway, that was my favorite shaila of the Yom Tov fair. We once had a case when we our kids were little where nine pieces of bread were found. And the 10th wasn't. Yes, that's And yeah then that was and that was you know created a panic in in the house. And the other thing I wanted to mention you you you spoke about the and I'm glad you included in your favorite shailas being mitztaref allowing those who don't have to daven a Yom Tov shmone esrei, those who are from Israel who are davening chol on Friday, you know, I have boys who put on tfillin on Friday. Excuse me, on Thursday on acharon shel Pesach they're were on I'm obviously not in public, but they were putting on film. And um and can those people be mitztaref if they're not saying the same Shemoneh Esrei? It's a real shaila if you need them for the six mispallelim. If you need them for the six people I know And it's very interesting, Rabbi Heber. I'm not going to get into it now. But and I may have mentioned this to you off the air. I spoke with two really really big Torah giants, like real poskim, on this issue, and the two of them had completely opposite points of view on it. Is that interesting? Really but it's Yeah, no, cuz it's very it's a very Again, to count to the four, you'd have no problem even if you had six Americans and you need someone to be mitztaref as your number 10 man, there's no question that would work. >> Right. I just to explain I just to explain to people, meaning meaning if you literally have six who are davening, just four people hanging around to help you with the minyan. That's what we're talking about. So, part of the six would be people that are not saying the same Shemoneh Esrei. So, it was interesting. And thank goodness uh you know, in our case it worked out anyway. We didn't have to you know, in in retrospect, we didn't have to ask the shaila cuz of the uh the way our numbers worked out, but the going in it was a very interesting thing to consider. Can I assume I'm doing this quickly cuz I know you're really tight on time today? Uh so, I'm going through my questions uh a little bit quicker. Can I assume you did not Excuse me. Can I assume you did say Av Harachamim this past Shabbos? We did not say Av Harachamim. Interesting. Because >> did we did not say. So, I got to be I got to be careful I got to be careful with my attitude because and you know, we got obviously as many people do, we go by the Rav Henkin luach. Rav Henkin says to say it last Shabbos even though it's it's um Nissan to say it because it's Sefirah uh and it's Shabbos Mevorchim, nonetheless say it because it's Sefirah. And someone said you know, someone yelled at us. I said, "Well, it's a machlokes between you and Rav Henkin, and I'm going with Rav Henkin. But, I got to be careful here cuz you're telling me it's not across the board that there are those like yourself who don't say it. Right. A lot A lot though to by Sivan by Sivan we say it. It sounds like I'm Sivan, which will be this this year average a month from today actually will be will be Sivan of Sivan. Right. Then we will we will say it, but only only by Sivan by by Iyar and by Av there there are, you know, who could say it's by Av probably the problem is is is not to say it. By by Iyar it's it's you know it's a it's a split and Is it Do you think Do you Do you really think it is 50/50? I'm not sure. I only say it because I learned that I was like at the learning Chicago tells and and my rabbi Rav Chaim Berlin College in first year of Yeshivas Madison we were learning Yevamos. And and this goes back some 44 years ago. Right. We're learning Yevamos in in Yevamos is a famous Sugya of which is great to do which is the topic of you know different people doing different things. >> Right. Uh and it's all not all and all that. And in there he told the following story which I'll say was more of a joke and not often you get a joke in the middle of sheer, but he said there was a there was a it was Sivan of uh Iyar this exact case. >> Right. And and and then they they started getting to a big argument. He said you don't say so there was a guest there and he asked the Rav, "What's the meaning?" And the Rav the Rav points to a couple people fighting. He says, "That's the meaning." They're fighting about it. They're fighting. They're arguing. But, I always Of course in Halakha to argue to argue in Halakha of course is the meaning here. Cuz I always thought I always thought that that Rav Henkin's Luach is so dominant in the American Ashkenazi community that it would make it like 90/10 and not 50/50. Am I wrong about that? Maybe maybe like you're right. It is very very dominant. This one I I this this product is like so well known. Like if you want to know do you say the day I am or this kind of thing then then yes people go to that. This of a rock a man is more of a I'll use the word cultural in the sense that people have it in their sitter it's you know Very interesting all right Heber's with us trying to review some of the stuff from this past holiday season. We always make a big deal that we rarely say the haftorah of Mike H right isn't it like once in a 19 or 14 year cycle that we actually say the real haftorah of Mike H am I right about that? >> Very rare I think it's about one it's about one and it's it's rare. >> So someone said to me wait a second how often do we say the real haftorah of shamini which we did this past shabbos? Okay so so shamini is like this shamini in a leap year you're not going to say it because it's going to be it's going to be parsha and in a regular year it's going to be a it's you do only do it unless unless it's erev shabbos which means if first shabbos is going to be on Sunday Monday that's erev shabbos shabbos Sunday Monday then and then but all the other times shamini shamini is never shabbos shabbos right right it's always it's always the shabbos in a regular year it's the shabbos after pesach and in eretz yisrael actually you're always going to say it because when we have when we have erev shabbos shamini in eretz yisrael they have they lay shamini of course when we have the eighth day of pesach so they'll have it and we won't so in eretz yisrael it's going to be 12 out of 19 years you say it and in chutz la'aretz it's going to be it's going to be less frequent so for example I know in 13 years someone had a baby this week their son was in eretz yisrael someone in my shul and and I called him up and I said okay the bar mitzvah is going to be it depends if they live in if they're going to stay in Israel or not. Right. It's going to be Shmini Atzeres because if they live in Eretz Yisrael, it'll be Shmini, but if they stay in Eretz Yisrael where they are now, they were born there, then it's going to be Tashlich and Atzeres. Interesting. >> Because it's this it's that type of year that, you know, they ate their Pesach on Shabbos and >> Right. So Miketz is So Miketz is Miketz is a 90% thing. Shmini in in Chutz L'Aretz like a 50% thing. Reb Moshe Feinstein, yeah, about 50. I'd put about 50% when you add it all up, something like that. >> We were in a Chassidic minyan Shabbos Chol HaMoed, as I just told you, Shabbos Chol HaMoed, okay, not the first two days Yom Tov, we're talking about Shabbos Chol HaMoed, and they duchaned. And I said, "Whoa. Who duchans Shabbos Chol HaMoed?" And they said that the Satmar Rebbe in the late 1960s made a declaration that Shabbos Chol HaMoed Pesach and Shabbos Chol HaMoed Sukkos, they should duchan, and that's been the And it's And it's funny, anybody I mentioned this to knew there was a Satmar thing, that if you're in a shul affiliated with Satmar, you're going to be duchaning Shabbos Chol HaMoed. I'd never seen that before And no singing, of course, no Y'rushalaim, no singing, but I thought you'd find that interesting, right? I don't I didn't hear about it. And so this I've heard of such a minyan. I wasn't exactly familiar who does it. I've heard I've never seen it, but I've heard I've heard it's done. Uh what about what about yelling out Kohanim if there's only one Kohen? Across the board, nobody does it, or you'd say it's a machlokes? Right. I think it's not done. At all. And if they do it, it it could be wrong. Not wrong, but it could be ill-advised if one would do it, right? I think so. I would say so, yeah. By the way, another very interesting thing I found out, and this had nothing to do with being in a Chassidic minyan. This happened to me because I was speaking to my nephew, who's very familiar with a lot of different minhagim. Apparently, and this is only in Chutz L'Aretz, cuz in Israel, they count Sefirah when it's not Yom Tov anymore, you know, they start Sefirah. But apparently in Chutz La'aretz there are people in Yeshivish and Chassidic communities who want to count Sefirah the first night after the Seder and with a minyan. There was a minyan at 2:45 Friday morning, 2:45 a.m. Friday morning in at least two places that I know of to say Sefirah with a minyan. You ever hear of this before? No, fascinating. Isn't that unbelievable? I mean to say it's unbelievable. To say it's under the Seder is in the preferred Maxwell House Haggadah. Right. It was in there before before the day and other Haggadahs. Right, I would start it to It's of course the Chutz La'aretz thing because some think if some viewers are Sefirah for me to count it would be a contradiction for me to count Sefirah in Shul and then go home and have the Seder by definition. So it's like at the beginning of Kol Nidre. Right. Which is of course the case in Eretz Yisrael. Right. So that's really why it's a custom to for some to really wait till end of the Seder. But to have a minyan for that, that's that's fascinating. And it's interesting and I and I assume and it's I assume it works out because for the other 48 nights many many people, I'm sure you and many others, will only say Sefirah with a minyan. So I guess it works out that they feel they want to do all 49 with a minyan. Right, right, right. Of course in the time of my life, you know, any any minyan that's that's mine that's going to be All right. going to be counted with a minyan. But Friday nights you don't get it. You know, the early Friday nights you don't get it. >> I know you officially only have three minutes left so you have to tell me when you really have to go. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can add a little bit. I I teach in seminary in Wood Seminary. A few minutes late will be fine. >> How many How many people have asked you this week if they could take a haircut tomorrow? Oh, so I've been I've been speaking about it a lot. I spoke about it Shabbos. I actually mentioned it again this morning in Shul. And if even if even if you hold the first sphere of the mission guru brings in that cinnamon tough time to give all the stuff in the hay. Um, he quotes actually it's it's I saw it appears from the Ramshackle which actually looked up this morning. And basically Ramshackle makes two statements with the mission guru quotes from pretty much verbatim. And that is even if you keep what we call the first sphere which means you started already and you go to like by mayor. This this Sabbath is Sabbath and rich claydish. It's it's what we call like a young kid so to speak. >> Right. In preparation for that very very special day. You could have you could get a haircut and shave tomorrow. Look like this Sabbath was quite a special special occasion. And I was told that's only in the Ashkenazi community the Sparta community would not allow it. Right. Right. That's correct and you never have it C one. And the always the other that actually points this out and I I I appreciated that the statement that for people who keep the second sphere. You can you don't get the same benefit by by respect of C one cuz which kind of C one never falls out on a Sabbath. >> Right. And therefore you don't get it. Now the mission guru said something else which I just finally understood this morning thanks to the peers of the eyes of a hider. The mission guru said you could also get married tomorrow. Meaning Friday. >> That's the tour Friday rich claydish. Friday even if you keep even if you keep the first sphere. >> Right. You could get you could get married tomorrow which I always wondered and the mission guru said something the sticker suit that it's child. It explained what what can you get married tomorrow? Why can someone get married tomorrow because the child was quite as well as tomorrow. So you get a haircut tomorrow cuz it's in it's in preparation for child of claydish. >> Right. But what is getting married tomorrow have to do with child of claydish? So that's what he said it is follows. Again this is course I was at a wedding last night. But that was the family you know kept the second sphere so cuz that was the sphere. And by the way even if I get the child all the time. And you listen to the ship should know even if you keep the first Sefirah you could attend the wedding >> Right. of of the family that keeps the second Sefirah which means if you're invited to a wedding tonight Right. >> which I'll be at a wedding tonight. I you could go because even though I'm I'm in the middle of Sefirah already but you could go because it it's not Sefirah for them and you're there to you know for their Simcha but so back to getting married tomorrow even if you keep the first Sefirah you can you get married tomorrow but there's a big catch there's a big asterisk it's because the Seudah is going to be on Shabbos >> Right. >> so since the Seudah is Shabbos Rosh Chodesh like they used to do in the olden days people got married Friday and they had their Seudah on Shabbos so since the Seudah is going to be Shabbos Rosh Chodesh so we kind of put aside Sefirah and say that it's Shabbos Rosh Chodesh and um and and and that's it so to make a wedding tomorrow and have the intro by Nachum Segal when the when the band comes out and and the Chosson Kallah come out to your introduction you can't do that right if you keep the first Sefirah however however um if if you're if you're getting married someone's getting to married tomorrow and has the Seudah Friday night like the old wedding then they can get married tomorrow >> Amazing absolutely amazing. Um by the way when you were growing up and I was growing up am I right there were never weddings this week there were never weddings between Pesach and Rosh Chodesh or am I just am I am I misremembering? When I when I was a when I was a kid I grew up in St. Louis there weren't a whole lot of weddings in the first place Right. uh but but however I think the German customs in communities that were more German start with you know period so in the more Yekkish communities I think they they did it but the how many um of your regular neighborhoods I think was was much less >> Do you want me do you want me to as were weddings that were like Do you want me to check in with Stanley Raskas and find out about weddings in St. Louis Rabbi? Should I do that? Should I Should I give him a call? Sure. Sure. Absolutely. I spoke to Mar Baruch by the way. I spoke to Mar Baruch. And then Yoni Pola came up. This will be the last major shul I know you got to go. Yoni Pola came up with this one. I thought it was brilliant, this question. And any real gabbai and you know what I mean by a real gabbai or by haber would have a would go to town with this one. Yoni asks for the gabbai responsible for repairing the Torah is the longest Torah roll from Beshalach to Re'eh when you have to repair the seventh day of Pesach Torah for Acharei Mot shel Pesach. Is that the longest Torah roll that a gabbai has? He thought He thought that there are times that that He also He also put in that one of the one of the big jumps if you if you if you will is when you have to go from Shabbat to Shavuot like this year. This year we're going to go from Shabbat to Yitro. We're going to go from from Yitro to Shabbat, right? This year Friday Shabbat is is is Shavuot, right? So we're going to we're going to Well, you Yitro the first day. Oh, what do we read the second day Shavuot? What do we read the second day? Re'eh. Re'eh. Re'eh. So Shavuot to Re'eh So that's that's also a pretty big jump. But But Beshalach to Re'eh, right? Seventh and eighth day Pesach might be the longest. What do you think? I would say well, okay, if you could take Sukkot Torah out of the equation from the second day of Sukkot back, I think Rosh Hashanah going into Shabbat being the two days Rosh Hashanah right? And then Oh, cuz that's Breishit. Right. Cuz now of course the last leaning on Rosh Hashanah morning you went you actually you went to Pinchas. So technically it depends how many different Torah you have. No, but if you have a if you have a number of Torah and you're reading just from Breishit in the first one then that Torah then that Torah is right. And you want to prepare that. >> the master one, if you roll the master if you roll the the master one Rosh Hashanah, then you'll get the roll Pinchas till uh it's going to be Hazinu then. Right. >> So it it really depends on what the roll is. If you go Bereishit, you got a long one. >> But I'm saying it, you've basically answered the question. If you're going to go with the standard practice of, you know, the first Torah, second Torah, etc. and you you leave the second Torah in the Maftir, which people do year-round, then Rosh Hashanah the Shabbos Rosh Hashanah the Shabbos is going to be the longest one. It'll be Bereishit till the end of Devarim. Right right right right yeah right by year all the way to Hazinu. Yeah, it's a long roll. >> Wow. Who thought it could be longer than Bishalach Torah? Hey, wow, that's great. Unbelievable. So we're going to be a partial off. Israel's going to read Israel's going to read Nasso, I'm assuming, and we're going to be reading Nasso the following week, right? Right right right right we're going to read we're going to read Israel's going to be reading Nasso, right? That's right. We're going to we're going to read the correct exactly right like you said, correct. So how many weeks will that last? That's going to go until Devarim? Is that going to go until Erev Who Who got Who got Who got Who got Uh the 12th day of Tammuz. So it goes about a month. Interesting. >> 5 weeks. And I assume that's the shortest time that we could be off with Israel, right? That's the shortest period of time we could be off. In the shoot in a regular year when you have Pesach, then I think that this is to Shmini and Kisa is identical. It may be off by one, but I think it's the same 5 weeks. Interesting. >> And I'll leave I'll leave you with a very quick story. This is this topic of is very dear to me. I think I mentioned this on the show a few years ago. My father used to get a magazine from Eretz Israel called Panim el Panim. My father used to call it Panim Panim el Panim. It used to come in those onion skins. In the onion skins it was you know it was air shipped. Yep. And and I I didn't I could just read the Luach, which of course I had a fascination with. And I'd come running over to my father and say I said I said, "There's a mistake in here. It's got the wrong parsha." Right? It had like, you know, Kora instead of we were we were He said, "No, no, let me explain to you. We're a week ahead." And that's that's where I learned about this. That's That's where you That's That's That's where they broke your little boy's heart and they let you know that we're that we're off one week with Eretz Yisrael. That's where I started learning all this and my father all of a sudden he taught me all the all the basics. Unbelievable. >> basics. Uh Rabbi Heber, can't thank you enough. A very From the quiz on, you did brilliantly today. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you very much. Rabbi I'd like to see you and all and your listeners. Thank you so much. A good shabbos. Rabbi Heber, of course, kashrus administrator at the Star-K, spiritual leader of Khal Adas Yisroel Zichron Shmuel Salant in Baltimore, author of the book The Intriguing World of Jewish Time, which we always highly recommend. Uh Rabbi Heber um and his segment today is sponsored by our dear friends the Levine family, Carrie and Joshua Levine of West Hempstead, New York, in honor of their daughter Shoshana's upcoming marriage, June 1st to Seth Schlank, son of Eileen and Michael of Plainview, and also in honor of the Levine family's dear friend Chava Seagull's recent marriage to Ellie Walkinshaw. And I thank the Levines and of course a big thank you to Rabbi Heber. More coming up. You're listening to a sphere of format edition of JM in the AM. >> Mhm.