Analysis of the News of the Day on Israel, the US and Iran w/ Rabbi Steven Pruzansky on JM in the AM

Then you're listening to America's one and only Jewish moments in the morning radio program heard on listeners sponsored digital radio round the weather web.com and the school network and of course the beloved NSN app. We love having Rabbi Steven Pzanski with us on the air. He is with us live via telephone from Israel. He's Israel region vice president of the coalition for Jewish values, senior research associated at Jerusalem center for applied policy. And of course for those of you in this area, Rabbi ameritus at congregation Ben Shuran in Tene, New Jersey. Rabbi Pzanski, a pleasure to welcome you back to JM in the AM. >> No, thank you very much and good morning to you and your listeners. >> Appreciate that. So, you're in Israel and I I I would guess last time it was almost obvious and what I mean by last time, I'm talking about the 12 days US/Israel versus Iran. I guess it was obvious, you know, getting to the point where it was inevitable. It was inevitable there would be a strike. I think everyone in Israel felt that way at this time. What is the feeling right now? Is the feeling, especially among people like yourself who watch the news carefully, is the feeling that something's inevitable or not necessarily? >> Well, I was out last night and the atmosphere was really quite rockous. People are in a very good mood. People see the war in Gaza as more or less behind us. It might be an illusion, but it's perceived as more or less behind us. And the outcome of that war has been so positive for Israel in many different ways on all the battlefields, the seven fronts in which we're fighting that there's a very positive upbeat mood in Israel. And I think there is a sense that we weathered a storm from Iran once before and if it comes again, we'll be able to weather it. With that, there's a hopeful expectation that if indeed, God willing, the regime falls, then that could mean a sea change in the entire Middle East. Not every development will be positive for sure, but it will be a sea change in the Middle East. Uh that being said, no one knows what's going to happen and I am uh cautiously pessimistic about the regime in Iran falling because obviously it's not it's not like the Soviet Union which was a secular system dedicated to communism but secular the Iranian regime and the Ayatollah and the Mullers see themselves as representative of Islam, of radical Islam, but Islam, >> right? >> Therefore, a defeat for them, a surrender, fleeing the country of Iran would be a setback, not just for the Iranian revolution, but what they perceive as the propagation of radical Islam across the world. So, I don't see them going that uh sweetly into the great good night. I don't remember what you've told. Even if I would remember what you've told us in the past on this matter, I'd still ask you again obviously today for a fresh opinion. Would you prefer if there was no American intervention when it comes to Iran or we could speak about the Middle East in general? Like like what what's what's your attitude? You'd like to see the US actually uh follow through on Trump's threats or better if they don't? Well, I I have mentioned it before, but since I don't remember what I said either, we all start back. The truth is there's a downside to American intervention in the Middle East because it could redown to the detriment of Jews in America. Frankly, you know, we love what Trump does for Israel for the most part. He is a bit mercurial no doubt but he's extremely risk averse and all the operations in which he he's engaged across the world have been done at such a distance that they resulted in no American casualties. Once, god forbid, there would be American casualties in the Middle East, then that would be extremely problematic for Jews because we'd be blamed not or American Jews would be blamed not only for accepting American money but now costing American blood in their defense as well. That being said, there's obviously a great American interest in seeing the demise of radical Islam, which has taken uh American lives uh for almost 45 years now. Uh America has a long and negative history with Iran going back to 1979 and the seizure of uh American hostages that were kept in Iran for 444 days that America's never really uh got any vengeance for that or even called Iran to account for that. Right. >> So my my fear is more that America will not respond than they will respond. Especially since Trump set this red line that Iran cannot kill its demonstrators or they'll have I quote a very very strong reaction that they won't like. Well, that red line is threatening to be similar to Obama's red line regarding the Syrian Assad government's use of uh poison gas, chemical weapons against its own population. That red line was crossed and Obama did nothing and that hurt American deterrence and credibility in the Middle East. Well, they did kill at least 2,2500 Iranians already. It could be many more than that. So, you know, Trump does make idle threats on occasion and one out of 10 times he carries through on it, but one out of 10 times is not going to satisfy the Middle East. And therefore, he put himself on a limb by saying to the protesters, "Go out and protest. We will have your back." Well, the protests are continuing. And if anything, it would seem it'd be getting more violent in the days to come, not less violent. So there's a report out of Iran that they've halted executions of uh protesters that they've arrested, which is wonderful, which is not to say that they can't be killed in some other fashion or tortured or other demonstrators might be mowed down in the streets >> and and Yeah. And and strengthen withdrawing. >> Yeah. >> And strengthening your point, Trump went out of his way yesterday to emphasize that that the quote unquote killings have stopped, the executions have been called off, etc., etc. That's why, you know, >> I would I I would issue this caveat as well, and I want to be nice about it. Just because President Trump says something does not necessarily mean that it is true. >> Oh, no. But I'm saying the fact that but the fact that he went out of his way to publicize that news story would would show us that maybe he's trying, you know, to figure out a way to back off, >> right? The executions might have stopped. >> It's a a formal governmental response to those considered traitors, but the gunning down of people in the streets, that might not have stopped. >> Rabbi Steven Pzenski with us live via telephone from Israel. And by the way, I wanted to just add to the point you made earlier. uh for those who don't think that the uh that there is a cost uh in the Jewish world when god forbid American troops uh in fact are killed uh in fact when American blood is sacrificed in the Middle East any episode from the liberty to Lebanon to I mean just name it any episode that resulted in American lives being taken we we are still suffering uh the uh the outcome of those episodes. So if you all you have to do is look at modern Jewish history and and you see that that it's such a dangerous precedent, such a dangerous type of um of maneuver to get involved with when it comes to the Jewish community. And it frankly >> along along those lines, I'm not happy that there's an American base now operating out of Kiryat presumably to oversee the rehabilitation of Gaza, which is also distressing. But having American troops on Israeli soil is not welcome. Not for Israel and not for America. You know, there is terrorism in Israel. There could be a terrorist attack on that base that takes American lives. And Americans, especially those who already hate Israel, will not blame the Arab terrorists for killing American soldiers. They will blame Israel because those American soldiers are there. Um, people who live in Israel, even those who pay careful attention to the news, always find that there's two categories. Those who really, you know, understand what's happening in the United States and it's irrelevant that they're 6,000 mi away and others, you know, find it difficult to relate to what's happening here. Because for that very same reason, they are 6,000 mi away. People focus differently on different things. cuz I have a feeling you're in the you're in the former category and I'm I'm wondering if uh I if you're fully aware and following um the movement um that continues to grow in this country regarding uh attitude toward the quote unquote Israel lobby, Jewish influence uh etc etc. Because no matter what the reality is, no matter what picture we want to paint of what's happened in the last 5, 10, 15, 20 years in this country in terms of influence in Congress, the media, etc., um, to whatever degree it's true or not true, it has never been called out the way it's being called out now. And I think one of the prime examples of this is the military aid that goes to Israel from the United States. Rabbi Presenski, do you find the timing interesting as I do that all of a sudden the prime minister of Israel who could have made this announcement 30 years ago is suddenly running to make sure to make public statements about being weaned off of American support. >> I think there's a connection. But I have to tell you, I was in Congress in 1996 to see the then newly elected Prime Minister Netanyahu tell Congress that he wants to wean Israel off American aid. And in truth, Israel did stop receiving financial aid from America and then began receiving only military aid. And it's worth noting military aid that can only be spent in America. Right? So, it's the American government subsidizing the American arms industry. So, I I think he realizes that not only is it bad PR for Israel to be taking American money, but you never know in American politics who's going to be in charge. And the fact that Israel became so dependent on American arms, even for bullets, of which we were running short at the beginning of the war, that gives the United States undue leverage over is Israel's government's policies. And that is untenable because it seems just from this distance that Trump is viscerally pro-Israel. It's hard to imagine a new president taking office January 20th n uh 2029 having that same visceral pro-Israel attitude whether it's a Republican and certainly not a Democrat for whom anyone who's viscerally pro-Israel could probably not win the nomination. So therefore you have a leader and the truth is NO is not always good at this has to see 5 10 years ahead and 5 10 years ahead it's not in Israel's interest to be receiving American aid even if that money is only spent in America. What Natan is trying to do and wisely is I think create a different balance between patron client to partnership. That is to say, if America wants to invest money in Israel like America did in the Iron Dome, David Sling, etc., even in our laser, anti-missile laser capacity, so investments are always welcome because they benefit both sides. But to be perceived as a client state of America, >> Yeah. >> not in Israel's interest, not for our sake, nor American Jews, nor even the United States. It's interesting. So, he's trying to drift from client to partner. At the same time, even members of the mainstream media, and again, I know you follow this, even members of mainstream media here in the United States are drifting the other way, it seems. And those that were dependable in their defense of Israel, in their viewing Israel as a partner, greatest democracy in the Middle East, our only ally in the Middle East, etc., etc., etc. Even some of them seem to be drifting toward the client category. Agree or not? uh you have a particular personality in mind. >> Yeah. I mean I would I would think that uh I don't know I'm not going to name names but certainly social media influencers and those who have podcasts and TV and radio personalities a lot of them who who were viewed as mainstream and certainly viewed as pro-Israel, whatever that means, but we know what it means. You know, in their public statements, it look like they're drifting the other way and uh and looking more at Israel as a client as opposed to a partner. >> Right. way you could say some are drifting towards more even-handedness than being pro-Israel. Look, I think it's multifaceted. One, I think it's a mistake to just label people who have a specific disagreement with Israel as Jew haters or anti-semit. >> Agreed. >> Because it it just name calling never works. It's not edifying. It's not educational. You gain nothing from it, but it's almost a sound bite that then can be ignored. Uh that being said, you have to read the tea leaves also. And I think a lot of these podcasters, social media influencers see the young generation that, you know, knows nothing about the Holocaust, nothing about Israel's uh struggle to survive, nothing about the the hundreds of billions of Muslims who are hostile to us, who surround us. And all they've seen, and part of it is our fault in Israel also. All they've seen in in Israel trying to surrender territory, trying to accommodate these neighbors, essentially announcing that, well, we don't real it's not really our territory, Judea Somaria. Maybe we can give it to the Palestinians and they'll make a state. We'll all live together in peace. Yeah. But once you announce to the world that it's not your territory, then someone who knows nothing about history will then start wondering, well, why are you there? >> Why do you need a deal to give back land that you stole? And that's the mistake going back to Oslo. And there's one of the big disputes in Israel now about the commission of inquiry is that the right-wing wants to go back to OSA and to the expulsion from Gaza and to see the effects of those catastrophic policies on what happened October 7th and subsequent to that and of course the leftwing want anything but that they want to start the investigation of October 7th on October 6th. What happened? That's it. >> Yeah, understood. And they also want to go back to Oslo, frankly. >> Uh they would do it. They would do it all. Too many would not most Israelis have been uh sufficiently uh uh spanked by the reality of October 7th that they're not there yet. Even the left. >> Yeah. But it was it was frightening to me when I heard a uh a former hostage actually publicly say that that they you know still want to try to live by the Oslo Accords. >> Right. Well, you know, that's the old joke about the second marriage, the triumph of hope over experience. The these people are hopeful, but they're not they're not using their experience in any way, which is productive. >> I got to ask you because obviously you were a full-time New Jerseyian and a leader in the community for uh I mean, your leadership role obviously is still very effective, but obviously a little bit different these days. Um, did you see this coming? You're reading and you're seeing and I'm sure you're experiencing. you visit here. Uh the anti-semitism in America, the protests, the the attitude, the the the random subway attacks, Jews randomly just, you know, uh being targets and all this. I mean, did you see this coming 20 years ago or not? >> Yes. You know, my wife called me the prophet of doom in the 1970s because I saw this coming in the >> Did you like did you like that moniker? Was that was that a beloved uh a beloved way of referring to you? I I think she meant it lovingly. She scared me to her. I think Yeah. Well, I look at it from a more philosophical even hashic perspective. There are two basic realities of Jewish history. One is that every exile comes to an end and two Jews in that exile always realize it too late. >> Yeah. Those are the basic corlaries of Jewish history that have not been repealed. And in every society in which Jews lived, whether it was in um in Spain in the 1490s or in Germany in the 1930s or Iran in the 1970s or America in the 2000s, every Jew feels it comes from comfort. It comes also having a good life. Every Jew feels this cannot end because in fact, why should it end? We don't we don't mean to harm anybody. We pose no threat to the government. We just want what's best for all of our fellow citizens. So why should it end? But the reality of Jewish history as we'll read this week in a parad of Jewish history is that we move towards kibgalot and there are forces that are driving us back to the land of Israel and we can do it of our own volition happily let nephesh pay for it or we can do it being driven out by the various countries. So I I'm not a prophet of doom in the sense that this is America tomorrow. It's not going to be like that. I will say though that the patterns, the trends are not good. If only because for the first time in many years, maybe ever Jew hatred in America is being mainstreamed. >> Mainstream in the culture, mainstreamed in the media, and above all, mainstreamed in politics. When you have political parties in which open Jew haters are not ostracized, even expelled from those parties, but are rather welcomed and said, "Well, we have a big tent. We have to be able to accommodate even people who hate Jews or hate Israel." That's the Mamani effect. When that happens, that's a an inflection point that if Jews don't realize something has changed, then we're just going to once again make that same historical mistake. >> Here's a plug for your uh brilliant work on the prophets. If if we would pay, you mentioned Haft Torah. If we would pay more attention to the prophets, all that you just said would be even more clear. Correct. >> Unquestionably so. I mean the were given to us only those prophecies that were needed for all generations and not just in their time. What's needed for all generations is what we read every Shabbat after the tow reading. Uh and if people don't pay attention to it, right, they're they're losing out on a fundamental understanding not just of Jewish history or Jewish destiny, but the Jewish present as well. Are you working on something now regarding the prophets? >> Uh, no. I I give Shior in my write a column and I I have to say that almost every time I write a column, I try to infuse it with knowledge of what the Naveen, what the prophets taught us. Yeah. >> What they see at this point in Jewish history where most Jews in the world live in Israel and uh thank God we're a strong, prosperous, flourishing state. you know, how do we know we're flourishing? Because we're always arguing with each other. There there's so many wonderful positive things happening in the land of Israel. And many times, by the way, it's true of American Jews and American Gentiles. All you hear from Israel is the negative, the, you know, terror, the the political issues, the corrupt Supreme Court, etc. And you don't realize the day-to-day life and even the infrastructure, the foundations of the state are so strong and so Jewish and so overwhelmingly positive that yeah, it's a miracle. It's providential that we've been able to reach this point in Jewish history. And I for one feel blessed and privileged that I'm even a small part of it being able to to live that way. People here speak of you know living the dream. All right. Yeah. the dream of Shiva and not to returning to Zion and not being beholdened to other nations, but being able to carve out our our own destiny and and serve Hashem in all the ways the Torah gave us in order to build a model society, granted a work in progress. What privilege can be greater than that? Something generations dreamt about or even couldn't dream about. But that takes a a a perspective of history and it takes also a knowledge of what the Naveim have to say about our era. >> Can't thank you enough for your time. Love having you on the air. Thanks so much for all the insight and have a wonderful Shabas. >> My pleasure. Shabbat shalom to you and all your listeners. >> More coming up. It's by Steven Pzanski. very special conversation on a Thursday morning broadcast at JM and the AM.