Nachum Segal and Koren's Matthew Miller Discuss the New Rabbi Sacks Chumash on JM in the AM

We've mentioned that um there's a brand new Kumish out there. It is the Merman edition uh of the Kamish Torah Kumish Coen edition with Rashian. And what's unique about this Kumish which I saw online already some synagogues have uh ordered them and are incorporating them into their service. What's unique about it? It's a translation and commentary by the late great Rabbi Lord Jonathan Saxs. It is a 1700page work. Um it is available. It's out there. We we refer to it as the Cooren Kish. But again, what's unique about it is that Rabbi Sax's uh translation and commentary. With us live from Israel is the publisher at Coren Publications and that is Matthew Miller. Uh, Matthew Miller, a pleasure to welcome you back to JM and the AM. >> Always good to speak with you. >> Appreciate that. It's been a long time and it's great to have you on. Um, this is always interesting and curious. Um, obviously Rabbi Sax is no longer with us. Passed away if I'm not mistaken like four or five years ago during CO and now all this time later the Kumish comes out. So tell me about the beginnings of all this. I mean obviously you were in discussions with him about this I would assume during his lifetime obviously again I would assume but you'll tell us that someone else or a team of others had to finish this work tell me how this uh came about that we're now holding in our hand the brand new Rabbi Sax Kor and Kish >> well this project is about 10 years in the making uh Rabbi Sax's fifth yard site is coming up in the middle of November Um, and I don't know if you recall, but about four or five years ago, we actually brought out the the new Quran Tanakh, of which Rabbi S for which Rabbi Saxs translated the the the Torah section. We had a very good team translating the uh the rest of Nak under his direction uh and style guides. Um, and then we the plan was always to bring out the homish, but obviously we had to do the translation first, >> right? >> He was well into the commentary on the kish. I think he we had about a half a safer done, maybe not quite a half a safer and then he went into we he went into hospital. He said, you know, Matthew, you know, I have to have this procedure done, but uh when I get out, we'll finish this. And he didn't. >> And that was, you know, everyone was shocked. his family. We we were all the whole I think the whole Jewish world back. >> No question about it. >> I was and you know especially these last few years between the co and the war it's been just you know this the search for moral leadership the moral voice has been well we miss him terribly. Oh >> 100%. his voice as you just said I mean his voice became so incredibly important especially in the last 5 10 years of his life when he just became so recognizable and so important to so many uh parts of our community worldwide and uh when he left us boy uh that was uh felt by everybody around the world so I mean does this when when this happens and he you know is taken from us suddenly we'll call it that the way you described it um do you consider scrapping the project like do how does one pick things up as a publisher and decide we're going forward with this or not? >> Look after about three or four months of complete shock and I don't have to tell you the Sax family was devastated um we we really couldn't bring it up to them. uh we we had to we obviously had to wait and then we we discussed we discussed with the family with this the the Rabbi Sax trust how are we going to approach this and after I won't say negotiation but like really opened and frank discussion between all three parties what we came up with I think was a very good plan um under uh the editorship of both Lubane Ziggler and Jessica Sax's niece Um, uh, Rabbi Ruin Ziggler, I'm sure you know. Um, we we literally went through everything you write wrote, not just in conversation, covenant conversation, but every work that was published that he ever wrote. We I'm simplifying. We put it on a spreadsheet uh, for the entire homage chapter and verse, you know, from the rati one to the end of the rain. And then we we we we honed we honed we honed and we ended up with a verse byvere commentary based on his based on his writings. They're 100% his writings. There's nothing else except maybe an ellipsus where we took out some words. >> Yeah. I mean in general here >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> No, the references to each is in the back of the hum right >> there. So you can see when he talks about um the ratio of all you can see which books we referred to when he took us. >> Yeah. Essentially it's footnoted and noted etc. He must have had an an amazing number of works with you in general. Uh I mean it wasn't just five volumes his commentary on Kish. Didn't he approach Kish from many different angles or am I not remembering correctly? >> You're absolutely correct. I mean look he published I think 30 books some most of which we published but not all. Right. Um but we obviously could reference all the books in in the humash. And we um and what was amazing is what was absolutely amazing was not only his command of theory from from uh Pho and the Talma to today, you know, to uh Hirs and and all but his command of whether it was sociology, whether it was anthropology, was was ethics, was was non-Jewish or Jewish sources. Um the command is is phenomenal and the eloquence I know I don't have to tell you if you've ever heard him but >> you know I was I was reading this just this past Shabbat so I'm sitting in Sh and although I've read all this many many times you know just seeing it on the page with the text but can I just read you a short selection? >> Sure of course. Um so you know he's talking after Cen kills and there's lots of implications and he says this however he says there's the road from denial of responsibility and we are my brother am I my brother's keeper to uh violence and murder is slippery and short >> this however is not all the first murder follows directly from the offerings brought by Cen the first recorded act of worship the connection between the religious between religion and violence is struck at the start. Too often in the relig in the history of religion, people have killed in the name of God, wage war in the name of a God of peace, hate in the name of God of love, and practice cruelty in the name of the God of compassion. When this happen, God speaks sometimes in a still small almost inaudible voice beneath the clamor those claim to speak on his behalf. What he says at such times is not in my name. I mean the power of and the eloquence of what he writes is it's beyond more than just a uh quoting a rashi and quoting a for >> and it's interesting and it's and it's interesting you point out that passage because Rabbi Sax was an expert on a lot of things but he did not hesitate as many other leaders today do. He did not hesitate to address terrorism, to address religious extremism, to address the Yeah, he wrote about it extensively. Your your books uh with uh Yeah. >> And this is why in the this is why the BBC whenever they wanted a real religious figure, >> they wouldn't go to the Church of England. They wouldn't go. They put him on. He was on, you know, he was on the God spot many, many times. >> 100%. All right. Uh the uh translation and commentary Rabbi Saxs the Kumish has uh been released by our friends at Corin. Matthew Miller the publisher is with us live via telephone. Now, did did he have an input? Oh, by the way, before I even talk about the input on the format when some you mentioned that he you know he wrote I think you said half a safer was already complete with him directly um dealing with this project and then of course as you said the team called together everything else and put together the kumish. I is is there any difference in the approach in the language in the sound in the in the voice of that half of a safer because he did it directly as opposed to all the other material that was that was called afterwards. >> No, we were very very sensitive because he actually did the he actually completed I don't know five six seven partial Yeah. which by the way it took took us about took he and us together about six months to develop the format. We followed the formatting. Uh we a >> so he so he had a m he had a major input in the format. >> Absolutely. It's his format. >> Wow. >> Absolutely. No he set the format and which which enabled us to carry on. Uh the so and and and the and the other thing I wanted to ask was you you mentioned again makes sense anything he had written got onto the spreadsheet every para was represented etc etc. What about his lectures? Did any of his spoken word presentations uh get into the uh into the Rabbi Saxsh? Yes, I I I refer you to again the back of the hum where we reference the entire work and where everything came from. So yes, and articles came from everything. >> Amazing. Uh Matthew Miller's with us live telephone publisher at Corin. >> All right. So now some of the basic questions, some I would have asked him, some I would only ask the actual publisher. Um there are curiosities when it comes to co-en projects, including this one. Why the left side of the page? Why did you take this direction um with the sitter and other um and other holy books uh to put the actual text on the left side as opposed to the right side of the page? >> That is that is we we do that as you note in all of our makarim and of course the bush. If you look, Hebrew flow he sorry Hebrew flows right to left. English flow too many English flows left to right. It's the natural way to read it. Your eye goes if you're reading Hebrew directly to the left hand side. When you're reading the English, you go to the right hand side. I I point out u in our sided. It's a perfect example of how you can translate how you can trans in a way the commentary and the way the layout is a commentary itself. That is to say, we're g we're we're giving the presentation of the text the easiest way to read. You know, you'll you'll see that the the type size is very large. >> It's very easy to read. There's a lot of white space. Yeah. Yeah, >> because we didn't want to cram in everything to make it unreachable. >> That's why it's 1,700 pages. >> Well, it's you're not wrong. >> I I wonder if you're ever going to make a pocket edition because uh >> how big is your pocket? >> Yeah, I was just going to say this is really this is this is quite a a a work. Um the other thing is that um and I'm wondering about your perspective on this. Your your rashi type set is amazing. The fact that there are nucot the the reading symbols vowels accompanying Rashi is amazing especially for those of us who've struggled for many decades with the fact that Rashi was never presented in that fashion. When do you think the the phobia of not altering anything having to do with Rashi, especially the nikuote, the vowels, the symbols, when do you think we finally moved on from that as a worldwide Jewish community? >> Uh, how about yesterday? >> Recently, huh? >> Um, no. I mean, I look, here's the thing, by the way. You know, we designed all Mr. Corin designed all his fonts in the 1950s. There's two separate fonts. There's a Tanakh font because we felt everything that suits Tanakh should have its own dedicated font and there's a separate font for Cedarine. Now when I when I took over the company in 2007, I asked our chief designer why was there no Humishi, >> right? >> And she said, well, and she was trained by Mr. K. Well, Mr. K never liked the old washi fonts. He wanted to do something better. And then when we were moving offices once, we came across a box. We opened it up and it was all the hand drawings for the Rashi you see in front of you. >> Wow. >> We were we were shocked. So we actually took it, we completed it, we digitalized it, we added and we could and that's what you see in front of you. That is relatively about 10 years old, but it's only coming in now because it's complete. >> Amazing. >> Uh and the object the object was to make a much much more legible and easier to read uh Rashid, why knock yourself out for no reason? >> Look, I've always said that, but it to it took till very recently to finally implement that attitude, frankly. And then Unkos, which does have nikudote in the in our tradition, right? You look at the traditional micro gad you're going to see, but what have you have you changed or upgraded what's available in terms of the Unkus commentary? >> Yes. If you look at the enchilus, you'll notice that some of the words are in a lighter uh are lighter, right? >> Not as dark, right? Not as dark. >> Now, that is not a mistake. That is that's a printing error. That is those are words in the light type case. Those are words which Oakus added into his direct translation. In other words, the dark uh the dark text is his direct translation and the light text are the elucidation. >> He's not going to tell them, you know, which is the reverse. >> Understood. >> So this way you can actually see what he added in >> and anything that we see and anything that we see below the line is Rabbi Sax's >> correct everything. I I I mean when >> every single word >> when you think about how much knowledge he possessed it's it's simply incredible >> it's frightening and every meeting I ever had with him which were dozens over the years in over 15 years many dozens every number one every meeting became a sher every it was never a meeting where it was just you know just do a business and get on everything turned into a lesson number You hit a fabulous sense of humor. >> Right. That's one of the reason that's one of the reasons he was that's one of the reasons he wasn't intimidating. I'm not saying people pled around with him, but it was an enjoyable experience to to to socialize with him. >> I mean I mean it was it he was a pleasure to be with. >> Yeah. >> And you know, by the way, of all of our authors, I hope nobody offended me when I say this, he was the easiest to work with. >> Wow. He loved he we actually brought in um I don't know if you know Shai Finkelestein in um in Jerusalem. We brought him in because Rabbi Saxs wanted to have a kuda and we thought what does he want to have a kuta when he was writing the commentary and we thought he knows what are we gonna teach him and then I realized he won the act of going back and forth and back and forth and arguing his point and because he loved the process. >> Amazing. >> Um he was such a pleasure. It was it was I sat on some for it was fun to watch. >> Amazing. Matthew Miller's with us. He's the publisher at Corin. Brand new uh translation and commentary. Rabbi Saxs is out. What have you heard from synagogues around the world? I mean, we've seen um evidence, social media evidence of some synagogues who are now uh making sure to order and um and incorporate the Rabbi Sax into their Shabbat morning service. Have you gotten that reaction from uh from other synagogues around the world? >> Uh first printing sold out. Second printing came in and is sold will be is sold out. Third printing is coming in in January. Um you know >> people are excited about it. Huh? The rabbis and people are excited about it. >> But it changes it changes the way you read the para. >> Right. >> This is this is a Quran aspect. But it, you know, it sound like, you know, you read the parts, you look down, see what the commentary, you know, you're always going up and down with other with other with us, you you with this, you read the the Hebrew or you read the English and then you look down and you read one or two essays about a couple of points. I I find that I'm reading now I I finished reading the Torah section and you know after Huff Torah is done because it it slows down and enhances the experience. It's a different experience. >> Amazing. Absolutely amazing. All right. >> It's a richer experience. >> Look, I mean the individual I guess the easiest thing is co-enpub.com, right? That's the easiest way for an individual to get this. >> Pub.com is right there. >> What do you want to say to the presidents and rabbis of synagogues? How could they be in direct contact with you or others to, you know, order in the hundreds? Please God, >> in the thousands. Umh, I guess, um, Schlommo at [email protected]. He's our sales director. He'll take care of everything you need. Slom ocorp.com and SM will take care of you. And are you saying that, because I don't know the way this works, um, are you saying that if a shul would order in the hundreds today, they'd probably have to wait till 2026 to actually get them. >> Um, I think we can get to some now, but they're going to be out of stock in in about a week or two. So, >> wow. >> Yeah, I would say maybe two, three months before the the third batch comes in. the >> we've ordered now for the entire we we ordered now for all 26. >> The Maggererman family has made quite a commitment to your projects. Would that be an accurate statement? >> They have made a wonderful commitment to us, to Rabbi Saxs, and to uh really extending the the the the approach to Torah worldwide. They've been wonderful. >> Call to them. call a vote to him. >> If I if I speak anymore, I'll be embarrassed. I don't I don't want to embarrass anybody to turn this our appreciation either. >> Well, I again, I just wanted to say kaako to them because, you know, as we know in Jewish history, it's families that take a strong interest in supporting important works that make a real difference for generations. And I think you would agree that that's an accurate assessment. >> Of course. Of course. Um, >> we've got so many friends. We've got so many friends that have been so helpful to us over the years. >> Well, what you've done, I mean, the truth is I I really can't speak with with tremendous authority about pre207 Corin. I wasn't familiar enough. But but it's obvious that since you've gotten there, you have just uh you you've encouraged and carried out I don't know if you want to use the word revolution, but certainly uh you know a a a major um uh a a ma some major milestones in the world of Jewish publishing. >> You can say revolution. >> Can we say revolution? >> There's a revolution. It's an evolution. Um, >> you know, you know, one of our one of our slogans, you know, that we did in the advertising was like traditionally nude. And I think that's true. You know, we're very grounded. We're very rooted. But I mean, you talk about the the presentation of the of the Rashi, for example. You know, why why do we change? A because we wanted to make it easier for the reader to use. We just wanted to make it easier and more accessible. We didn't dumb it down. We just are making it more accessible. If you look at our total uh that we did with the the Rabbi Steinelson's uh people >> Yeah. >> Rabstein, you know, um it's accessibility. It's clarity. We're not trying to scare off people. We're trying to make them see what's on the page. And we're doing that whether it's the and now the that's exactly what we're trying to do. create accessibility and clarity. >> Oh, you're doing a great job at it. Matthew Miller, a a real delight to speak to you about this mazalto on this incredible accomplishment. Best regards to all of our friends. >> I want to buy and I don't want to buy you a steak and a bottle of wine next time you're in town. >> Are you Are you guys still in Talpot headquarters or you've moved? >> No, we move we moved. We moved about 10 blocks away. We're in Arnon. Yeah. >> Oh, we don't know. No, >> we're just 10 blocks away. very >> well. There's a there's a great steak place around the corner from us. You're going to have to try. >> I see you know exactly exactly what's what's going to uh make me come and visit my friends at Corin. Uh Matthew Miller, he's the publisher. Everybody out there, check it out. The magerman edition brand newish ken shaleim rashi vunulas translation and commentary by the amazing and incredible Rabbi Lord Jonathan Saxs of blessed memory who we miss every single day. Matthew, best regards everybody in Jerusalem and thanks for joining us. >> Be well. See you next time. >> More coming up. You're listening to a Tuesday morning edition of JM in the AM.