Motty Kenigsberg on Growth, Healing, and Becoming Your Full Self

Okay, jump right into it. >> Let's do it, man. >> Okay, welcome to another episode of Positivity. Thank you everybody for being here and continuing to keep us the number one podcast. I feel very honored and I'll share my number one trick, which is to just be consistent. I think that's amazing. And Miy knows a lot about that. So, help me introduce a guest, Miyanixburg. um a coach, someone that helps actively uh saintly mention and between the workshops that you do, Hindr mention that maybe by now chosen to mention to somewhat feel more alive in life, I should say, and be more consistent and and uh go through hardships or just a regular to have you as a friend. And uh I think you know a lot about uh uh healing and how people can get through in in life from your own experiences and from what you've learned years and years of uh information and knowledge and schooling that you uh did in some form of learning and whatever. Um so I'm very excited. I asked you a few times ready to come up and being that you don't even live here is it didn't come out until now but now it happened. So mi welcome to positivity. >> Okay. And the main sponsor 3M vitamins for this one I'm excited because multivitamin yen to fav because I learned especially in growth and in healing as the most beautiful way natural vitamins. A lot of people that I know mention respect nema vitamins and I joined on that train and it's just a message or a phone call away. Isacson 3M vitamins. You send him a message. Free delivery to all over any kind of vitamin. If you need a consultant is he will help you. You want to give them chewable vitamins with health focus, he will also help you with that. So um it says Ginga and when you mention Weber or positivity, you get 15% off. That's a beautiful discount. So the information is 732-942-7200. 732-9427200. Again, David Isacson would help will help you with any kind of vitamin that you need to stay healthy. >> Thank you. It's an honor to be here. It's been uh back and forth for a while. >> Yeah. >> I think at one point we thought we would do it in Mexico or I thought we'll do it in Mexico. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember you [laughter] said that. But >> but yeah, I'm glad the timing worked and there's no better time than the time that actually works. And sometimes it's hard to trust that >> in life. >> Nice. We all know it conceptually. >> Yeah. >> That um if someone someone dear told me something interesting that you know when we wait we anticipate for something to happen it feels like a long time but when it finally happens >> right. So >> yeah, I noticed that with dating it's like >> you think you found the right one like it doesn't uh >> like you said I'll tell you why because psychologically it's like a deja vu moment. What's my deja vu? Where's dja vu mind? >> Dja vu is when the inner moment and you feel like I already live this moment feeling >> and really it's the brain messing with you in the moment. The brain is only telling you when that happens that oh we felt this already. It's not true. It's not déjà vu is not a real thing. >> Right. >> So, so the same thing is with >> it's not a real thing because everything is always new in a sense. >> Correct. It feels like trippy. It's a trippy thing because everything says, >> right? >> So everything is sort of a component, >> a few components that come together which are not new but new. But you're saying that when it finally happens, >> when it finally happens, it's it's basically everything that happened up until now is completely irrelevant because the only thing that was was the now. >> So you were just in in the moment you lived searching instead of knowing that you'll be finding. So that's misery. legit the the you know >> that's assuming that misery is misery you know like >> I I think a lot >> it's assuming that the misery that let's take dating it's very very difficult to be single >> not 19 >> right >> it becomes really really tough [laughter] >> in certain circles and other circles I live in LA now in other circles it's 30s 40s 50s at some point becomes really difficult >> and it becomes Um, and that difficulty like afterwards it's easy to feel like, okay, that was a waste of of difficult energy. >> Yeah. >> And I'm not I'm not particularly in agreement of that. >> Mhm. >> Right. I'm not particularly in agreement that any feeling is a waste of a feeling. >> Yeah. >> And I know this is um controversial because the line is what good is it going to do? >> Yeah. >> What good is it to just sit in a rot? >> Yeah. I'm I'm I'm coming to realize that there isn't such a thing as a wasted feeling in the broader scheme of things and in the very personal growth of my life. Although >> my own relationship with myself last night and and my stressors of overt tired or getting to bed and whatever and coming to to this today is feels like a big waste of my energy. But I know it isn't. I know that it's a very valuable piece even for how this conversation is going to go. Right. >> My anxiety around being in front of a camera has a value in the conversation. >> Yeah. >> And that's something that um I think people have a really hard time to agree with or understand, >> right? That that basically that it's okay. >> It has a specific intention, >> right? >> Let's let's talk about dating anxiety, social anxiety. It feels like it has no point because we so want to be on the other side where it's finally good. >> Yeah. While there's so much juice in the actual experience of difficulty, >> right? Exactly. Explain anxiety. >> Speaking of being healthy. I've seen their their ads and I was curious to learn what's this all this kosher skinny shots. So I learned um he himself is a nutritionist medical clinic and a vitamin store and shots and that it actually helps with weight loss. Mention struggling weight loss. I know from my personal own journey with with weight loss weight and this is a tool that can help you get there. With this tool, you can lose about 10 pounds a month. Um, you can still eat whatever you want, but your appetite is a little bit less. So, that's why you're going to eat naturally less food while it's not going to be a struggle for you. So, Kosher Skinny Shots, they have a team, trusted people that you can speak to and just get into a conversation with them and see if it's for you. The number is 84549-827845498278 or if you want you can get more information at kosherkinny shots. Mention Weber for a special discount. >> Yeah, you know, I started learning to hamm >> I love that made with my brother. I love that >> every day. Do you know about how there's so many but God is going to protect me? >> Yeah. Imagine the anxiety of social media. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] So m I like in the first few minutes to get a little bit of a background mentioned here knows the podcast. I have a tremendous amount of listeners. Can I >> Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I'm humble when I say it, but and the amount of or or even young girls that just listen to the podcast and send in messages like you can hear clearly that it's, you know, and that's why I tried to keep it like, you know, PG to the most of it, like at least language. I was like, no, let me just keep it. But my point is that there's so there's a lot of people and I'd like to introduce to them. Okay, Vader is the guest. Meaning, so where did you grow up a little bit? What do you do in your own words? An introduction, but that's based off of >> That's so good. I was ready to jump right into it. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> So, where do you want to start? >> So, tell us first of all where you grew up and uh you fully >> and you moved away. Tell us about your story. >> Um yeah, but you can ask questions and direct it. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Cuz um it's a >> it's accumulating with the years to me. It's like a hat of vine. It's like yesterday. So I might not remember if there's anything interesting along the way that you would you and your listeners would appreciate. As an entrepreneur and a business owner myself, I know the struggle of not having your books organized. And I know the freedom that comes with having a bookkeeper that is responsible, professional, helps you plan a budget, has the clarity when it comes to the numbers, and is available for you directly whenever you need. And this is where Mrs. Blle from Bookwise comes in. an individual that has a lot of experience with helping many many Yiddisha businesses out there. You get a unique personalized experience and you'll your business will have the clarity. If you don't know where your money is coming or going to um it's it's impossible to grow. So for the right growth in your business, get the right bookkeeper and reach out to Mrs. Blle from Bookwise. The information is info@ bookwise new york.net. That's the email address. Or the phone number to call is 8453723591. She will help you with all of your needs in the bookkeeping field. >> But yeah, I grew up in Borrow Park. >> Mhm. >> I grew up in Babiv. >> There was one Babiv, >> right? >> And uh I'm not originally Babiv. My father became Babiv as a teenager. My background is Israel. My grandfather is a Yami. >> Um my grandmother is St. Dist. >> Yeah. >> So um Yakov is a is a pretty um >> so my father became Bab as a teenager. So he when I was born my parents I was born in Israel. >> Yeah. >> In Tel Aviv. And my for medical reasons my parents came to the US. Okay. >> Specifically revolving my birth. >> Okay. Um, and they stayed. They didn't plan on staying here, right? >> But they stayed here. >> And I think I'm pretty sure that I don't know by how exactly how old, but I think after my British before my piran, I was left in Israel >> and my parents came for some doctor's appointment or something. >> Mhm. >> And the story goes that one morning, you know, when Alal arrives at 5:00 in the morning. One morning 10 to 6:00 in the morning my grand my mother had a knock on the door and my grandmother brought me her newborn her first my mother's first newborn which is me and that's how I ended up in this country >> my whole family is Israeli most of my both sides even >> my mother is um bels >> and my father is your shami but both sides most of them live in Israel >> right >> and that's me in New York we moved in bar and that's where I grew up my whole life >> I basically most of my years I was in Bab Yeah. >> From like I think up until I got married the first time. >> Yeah. >> And I was always I considered myself a goody goody. >> Yeah. >> In my head. >> Yeah. >> Um um I don't know how it was perceived to others and but I always had good relationships with my I found that I can go deep with and dig with and always like digging. >> Right. I remember I had one I don't want to >> that's what I was going to ask like how did you get into the whole depth of stuff like >> so I wasn't happy with what I was told ever >> I was very bothered I felt unhappy with who I am >> right >> I felt in pain for most of my life and it's not the trauma is a big conversation >> but for the most of it I don't have a crazy childhood story besides that I had a crazy childhood >> right why was it crazy >> upside down I was crying a lot. I was always unhappy. >> You were born into a trauma if there was health things, right? >> That's a story for my mother to say, but it's a pretty it's a pretty significant story. >> Okay. >> That I was born is is a is something I learned just a few years ago actually that the odds for me being born is very low. So that must have >> Wow. >> That that that must have um something to do with my screwed upness. >> Yeah. [laughter] You know, I actually like was always looking for, you know, there's the they joke that like trauma, so there's something that I can live with. But there was hubbish like someone needs to care for them too. Like >> so obviously I dissected and I understood it throughout the years that my personality placed inside a certain environment, >> yeah, >> is is difficult. Um and then family dynamics and friend dynamics and system dynamics and there's there's a lot of there but I want to move away from my traumas particularly just into the fact that I was very unhappy with myself. I felt always like I'm not good enough to an extreme. I was the one person in the whole classroom that has a feeling >> like yep >> and I'm a hyper I was a hyper hyper sensitive child. Now I know I wasn't the only one, but I was convinced I'm the only one. 29 kids in a classroom, four classrooms a grade. That's 100 plus kids. I'm the one that has a feeling. >> Yeah. >> Everyone seems to do fine, >> right? >> Besides me. >> And nobody's there to validate it. >> Yeah. I mean, again, my mother, it's it's complex, but yeah, the school system wasn't there to validate it. The society wasn't there to validate it. >> It wasn't a thing to go to therapy, right? Think of a time where that wasn't a thing. A feeling was not a was mind a feeling. What does that even mean? >> So um yeah so I grew I grew up and I was saying that I whenever I found the maj or malama that was a little more open specifically in my early teens I clunk to him very strongly. So I remember there's one I'm not going to name his name but he was the one that introduced me to and to m and he showed me a deeper layer of yiddish kite outside of the class curriculum. I remember even when there was um I can really not say his name but I remember there was sexuality yeah in balagan happening in classrooms I would be able to have a conversation with him about it in a not an awkward creepy way in a very normal way he would tell me was he was able to look at me and talk to me like a person and somehow he's very logical I was with him later >> for many years and somehow um he was able to but that was when I was already uh probably 16 or 14. >> Yeah. >> But up until then, I was always seeking for someone that can talk to me straight. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and uh yeah, I think um a lot of my life was visions when I was younger. I hope to explore the world. I hope to go out. >> I really wanted to sit with a tribe, maybe one day, sit on top of a mountain and meditate. Yeah. >> So, a lot of what I've done throughout the last 20 years of my adult life was in those months and years and years of sitting in not knowing who I am, >> right? >> Just the dream of something else sort of. >> Yeah. >> Was very alive for me, >> right? >> Like one day I will, one day I will, one day I'll drive a big coach bus. And I did. >> Yeah. >> I was a trucker at one point. >> Oh, wow. >> So, I did that. >> So, it was a lot of me manifesting or visualizing. I didn't know at the time that that's what I'm doing, but it's in the classroom. Yeah, [laughter] >> at one point I was very close to the 45th before he was a rabbi. He was a great inspiration. >> I I I hear he's a good rabbi by the way. >> I heard that he's a is a good guy. >> I don't know him today and you know sometimes I don't know him today but I know him very well back then. >> Want a good story? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So in yeshiv I smoked cigarettes. Yeah, >> I was in the phase of Capri. You remember that thing? The dinner lung cigarettes mentos. >> And I remember that he brought me in in the summer talking to me that I should try to get I should try to quit. It's not healthy. >> So I told him, I can't. I'm so addicted. I've been smoking for years at that point already. Like packs and packs a day. >> Yeah. >> So the I think Yeah. So I got I knew him before he was when he became and I was I was >> I think in I was a I'm pretty sure when he >> became the first summer or something or I miss I I have to try look back at the exact timelines >> but um >> but um he was either almost or this was his first year of of I don't know but he was um he was a person of statue let's whatever. Anyway, so >> um so basically to support me in in in quitting smoking, he he told me how you tell me how much you want to smoke a day. >> Yeah. >> And you smoke that but not more. >> Okay. >> Don't quit. So I told him, >> yeah, >> for me it was like I go from two boxes to 10. That was hard. Okay. >> So he made a deal. the way I'm going to be in control. That is he's going to hold my stash. >> Wow. >> And he's going to give me 10 a day every morning. Okay. So, one day and I hear as the Gab I don't remember who it was. >> Yeah. >> I'm all like, "Okay, it was what did I do wrong?" >> So, I I It was like after like 9 10:00. He gives me an envelope game day envelope. So, it's an envelope stacked in an envelope and stacked in an envelope. So, so and I'm like, what is in it? I hadn't the slightest clue. I open up the envelope. The envelope I like saying Capri Zin because he had an emergency to leave camp and he made sure to remember to leave me the cigarettes for the day. >> It's a good person. >> Is that is that wild? >> It's a good sadic. >> So, I think throughout the years I clung to people >> Yeah. >> that had that kind of seeing me >> were able to see me and and offer also answers for my questions. I had a lot of questions always. Yeah, that's it's nice. It reminds me I I had one magir who also saw in me that I can get hundreds on every test and and he did that to me. He pushed me and pushed me and pushed me for the rest of my life. I always know that if I really want something >> where did you learn which 43 and 14 >> but but he made me know one thing is that if I really >> corner building I I grew up around the corner on 42nd. >> Yeah. But I always knew that if I really want I can I can get uh >> Wow. >> to to that 100. >> So it wasn't my thing. I almost never got 100. >> Yeah. No, I also >> I'm saying I'm saying I'm moving on from that. >> Yeah. I'm No, I'm I'm I never enjoyed a benna test or any of these things or or whatever. And as I grow older, I noticed that the system, so to speak, system is better than I thought it was. Like it's not But meaning to say that grateful for this. So it's like so it's different meaning if you want to see the good that I also hate the most. But I can also tell you a good thing that he did. That's very it's very it's very beautiful that he saw that you're able to have he pushed me to do the every shabas and I did it for many years >> and he pushed me to the whole going every day. >> What did he do in what? >> Yeah, I can finish the in an hour about an hour 10 minutes like I'm very I can finish it. >> Wow. >> So I I got good at it. But then again, looking back, is it a bad thing? Is it a good thing? I snitch. It is. It is. Right. >> Probably both. >> Yeah. Um, no. And I'm saying it because I feel like, and this is this you need big shoulders for this, that there are many people, especially listening to the podcast, that they're not exactly sure black and white. You know, I always tell my brother's given an argument. make my argument better than your own and you'll win the argument. Yeah. >> And I feel like insha sometimes they don't that if they only would say the opposite side if they would only say the instead of instead of painting it just one way I think options like you said you were curious that's all I was I was just curious. So g give me the whole picture and then again I understand for a for a clankin maybe you can't give two sides but once missing yeshiva why why can't you tell me the real truth rigid and and whatever >> do you think that the people in charge have a second have any truth other than the one they told you >> yes >> I know they do because I know they're very smart person he's the he's the least of close-minded people. So, happens to be Erta introduced a lot of warmth besides just the typical uh rigidness. Yeah, he's a good man now. By the way, he still calls me still calls me every day. >> Have him on the podcast. >> Maybe. I don't think he'll want to, but uh but but I'm saying >> tell him it's a podcast. >> What I'm saying is they mentioned vison was just you know I had my last podcast controversial. Somebody came shared the story about his abuse and whatever and and controversial different topic was kind of the first time somebody comes out and talks about his abuse and I got threats for it. But so maybe other people can also share a little bit more that would open up and set health and mention meaning that is in a sense so exposed to information anyway they're so rebellious anyway that's rigidness that's rigidness which I You can see the disrespect over there. But so meaning there is a little bit of rigidness. I think it opens up but so I I think things changed. Um you want to say something on that or >> I think that the that there's a fundamental opinion within a lot of this there not only litish or Jewish the Mormons and the Christians and Yeah. And the country clubs and a lot of different places have the same sort of idea about helping kids. >> And the idea is that if I give them too much choice, they'll pick the choice of breaking. They'll pick the choice of of running away. They'll pick a rebellion. >> Yeah. >> And because I'm not talking about again, I want to I moved away from the abuse topic. Yeah. >> Which is a person that's sick. Yeah. >> I'm moving just from a general theme of of how to raise kids or how to be mechanic, right? is that it's comes from very often it comes from a place of shielding the person from the pain of rebelling. >> Yeah. They won't have the family. They won't have the support. They won't have the shik. They won't have the n >> they won't have the money. They won't have the support. And therefore the rigidness to keep someone in lane which again goes with I see that with the way my life has evolved and I have a a turning 18 and I see what his choices are and what his exposure are minus soyan on a dayto day with his experiences of of make telling him being rigid with what I think is right for him is just as much as what you're describing with your with your manal or >> because I don't want him to hurt And I have to make a moment to moment decision to let him have both experiences, >> right? >> And I'm calling it experiences, but we're we're talking when we're younger. It wasn't experiences. It was it was a virus. It was um um unsu. It was really It wasn't just experiences. >> Yeah, I name it experiences cuz the way that's the way I look at it now, but really that's what it is. It's like if your child goes on a bike that's a little bigger than the one that fits for him. >> Yeah. >> And you see him going down the street and you see him that he's about to hit a tree, that's an experience that he's having. >> Yeah. >> And for parents to have that coldness feels feels almost not okay. >> Yeah. >> As a parent was like I'm >> Yeah. >> I'm not proposing yes, but I'm also not proposing no. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And I think that's overall a big thing in every community, in every sector. Can I let this child have a full the full spectrum of what's possible and look around >> like I noticed that I'm sitting here for 15 minutes with you and I see there's fruit. >> Y >> and I don't think I would notice the fruit 15 years ago if I sit with you cuz I would be hyperfocused on the anxiety I feel while I'm in front of a camera, the conversation with you and where it's going. Because the way to solve the problem of anxiety is to be very focused and very like don't don't look elsewhere. Kick off and you'll get through it and it'll be okay. But what if >> now I guess that's a proposition. >> What if there's no danger or there's nothing wrong with laying out the cards and trusting again back to a child trusting that there's an internal compass or there's an internal movement towards good. >> Right. Wow. >> And if I don't hyperfocus on getting this right, >> or if the kid doesn't hyperfocused on getting the 100 or that grade, if we don't hyperfocus on we can talk about anything in this in this idea. If I actually allow myself to have the full variety of emotions including the stress, including the curiosity, including what else is there, including the conversation with another, including asking questions to trust that there's an inner and I think that's what in means there's an inner part that actually wants only good. >> Yeah. >> And there's no absolute there's no opposite to that. >> Right. Right. Beautiful. >> I feel the [ __ ] >> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. Beautiful. So I I I want to I I is is that I do see the kind of phone calls that I get and somehow people are reaching out to me. Almost every single day I get a phone call from a young teenager. >> Is that your audience? You have a lot of young young viewers. >> Yeah. And they call me zavonstein. And for me it begs the question like in the place of being sometimes I ask God God why me? I put on me that responsibility that people should call me when they need and maybe today they do maybe I'm just maybe but if they're calling me a average podcaster instead of getting their information from somebody that has so to speak more a caregiver >> it it raises a question and when they call me I always say I always say I can listen to you. I can just give you advice and as he tries to navigate through the world says so my hope is that podcast is to bring awareness cuz I know there are thousands of people that are listening to this. So English speaking, Yiddish speaking, >> every person younger people, every single person needs a person that they can talk to. >> Yeah. >> Period. >> Yeah. >> There's no exception to that. >> Right. Yeah. Beautifully said. >> Talk to could mean like I some people will say everything, some people will say a little, >> some people it varies in in seasons. >> Yeah. >> But every person needs a person that they can talk to. And if someone sees this and they don't have someone create it, I know it's scary at first. >> Yeah. It can feel mom is like like lion's den. >> Yeah. >> Like oh I'm going to I'm going to talk about how I feel specifically if it involves shame. >> 100%. Yeah. >> If it has sexuality or addiction >> or intrusive thoughts. >> It's very scary. Very scary to let that first person in. And often teenagers when they don't have an adult they they find solitude. And solitude is in English. Sure, it's some offensive, but they find, sorry, I said I don't want to Google sometimes words, but they find um um comfort in the arms of a friend. Yeah. >> They build that friendship. >> And um >> there's a book, it's a really good book, despite the title is called toxic parents. >> Yeah. >> Um it's not only about toxic parents, it's about what's healthy and what's unhealthy. And one of the it's a very fundamental good book to read. It's like a crash course in basic psychology. And one of the things she describes is that um when a kid when a child at a lesson when a child doesn't have a a caregiver to go to and they find care among friends but those are also kids. >> So you have imagine a kid >> is a parent, right? Imagine a 12-year-old has a child. So that's really what it looks like, >> which is which is which is nice to have that social connection, >> but it's not really it's not going to heal you. >> It's it's it's not going to allow my identity to develop. It actually keeps feeding my lack in having an identity. >> So then a relationship is good for you. Is then opposite I guess of of that friendship basically. >> What do you mean relationship? >> A relationship with a spouse with a wife a man. >> Yeah. I'm referring to your young viewers. >> I'm asking in a relationship that is probably good as far as >> to have the openness >> to have that that a caregiver is yes listening to you is yes caring for you. >> You're asking if a if a spouse could be a caregiver. Yes. >> I don't think I personally don't think as a title, >> right? >> I think we can. >> But can they give you that care? Can they give you that care that you were missing in childhood? And I'm and I'm going over the book getting the love you want where over there they they describe it pretty good into categories, but I'm curious in your opinion. Um, so I think that as a as a as there's different realms in our in our engagement in life, in our consciousness, which means in our humanity, in our human experience, there's different realms. There's the mind. >> Yeah. >> There's the heart, >> which is emotion, and then then there's sensation, which is the body. >> Yeah. >> Um, my guess my guess is that you function, you operate a lot from mind and emotion. >> Yeah. there's another realm which is becoming more popular which is um which is the sensation the whole sematic world >> okay >> um but even that when it's it's the balance of the three which really moves us forward so if we talk about a spouse let's say being taking a role of a caregiver to give that inner self the pieces that it was longing for like what I was saying that friends can't really give right to develop an identity to feel heard >> um depends on what realm we're talking about I think in the mind realm there's like values in the realm of mind there's values in the world of mind to put as a structural foundational role this is my my mother >> would be very unhealthy >> because it should be this is my daughter >> this is my okay okay that's that's another one let's put that on a on a so we have like this this this shelf with a bunch of little chopskits and design like this so look okay one is the mother >> one we're talking about a wife, right? One is the mother, one is the daughter, >> one is um the buddy, right? My wife is my best buddy. That's a friend friend a chile specifically if the wife is is is you know gets the understands me let's say >> right so I think that one on its own if this is on the mind realm on the realm of mind which is the values the the core val is what she is um it would be unhealthy. Oh, I agree. >> In the mind realm, this is a person that I get to be the best version of myself and express myself to specifically as a man. >> Yeah. >> I think on the woman, it's it's different a little. >> Correct. >> But as a man, if I turn my wife into one >> Yeah. >> is is a trophy. It doesn't matter which trophy. A trophy for sexuality or for comparing or for whatever. A trophy for my I found a mother trophy. >> Yeah. I trophied. I have I have a dream mother fantasy of the perfect kind of person that doesn't really exist. >> And there are plenty who are doing that. They're getting married to people 20 years older than them. >> Yeah. So um >> taken for the mother figure. >> Okay. Interesting. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I'm not I'm not familiar. >> Yeah, of course. >> But but again it could be that it the question is what's their mindset around it? Could be that on another realm >> this >> it could be on another realm meaning as a couple in the values of things they actually don't see them as a mother they see them as an equal but on another realm maybe in the emotional realm there is a motherly son a mother child a mother son connection that actually somehow works for them >> and I wouldn't judge that I wouldn't say that it's a judgment to to say as long as in the mind realm in the values realm there's a clear understanding of what this is which is a which which is a which is a relationship. >> Yeah. >> Which is a place to be better, to show up, to give, to create safety as a man. >> Yeah. >> So >> I don't think these things are wrong. Experiences are not wrong. >> Right. >> Right. Specifically, if we move into sexual experiences and >> and and um a lot of things could happen and it doesn't turn the couple into dysfunctional. I think that on the like um um is sort of the the way we I I look at it. If is the world of thinking and dibbit is the world of words which is um feelings like happy sad scares are words but have an emotion and ma says actions would be sensations I think on the world of of what's my values it is important to make distinctions what a wife is and what she isn't >> to really be clear what she is here to do and what not otherwise marriages go to go to hell >> right >> they really they really have no there's nothing holding it together cuz I turned her into some trophy mother or some trophy prize. And when she doesn't live up to the prize that I hoped she would be, I'm very, very upset. Like, how could you be moody? You're supposed to be my my dream mother. >> Right. [laughter] Right. Right. Right. >> What do you mean you're having a bad day? You're supposed to validate me every day because I'm doing so much. >> Right. See how amazing I am. >> Yeah. And how can I be a father to you? How can I be a giver if I was supposed to be a taker? Let me see if we're uh doing well here. >> DMA CEO. We're on. Oh, 33 months down. Okay. >> Exactly. Um the question is what is the what is the role of a relationship? You've had your own experience in relationships. >> Yeah. >> And uh >> so I was the I was married at 19. >> Okay. >> In in Benak at a beautiful wedding. Lately I'm it's coming in in waves. >> Okay. I don't know why, but I remember it >> more vividly than I did a few years ago. Okay. >> I was in a beautiful venue and it was a beautiful wedding >> and uh my ex-in-laws are amazing. I had a I I still know them. We have we share a a human, my son, right? >> Their grandson >> and um so I was married for a couple of years and then I was single for a couple of years and then I remarried about 10 years ago. >> Okay. So what were you asking about what's about relationship? >> So like we were speaking about the roles of man and woman. That's a good question. I want I want to discuss that >> but and this is clearly from an experiences and in my life >> I want to know >> what went wrong. What would you do differently? what's going right now in your what's the right what's >> what's going good or you know I don't know how to frame it you know what's >> what's the good thing in your what's the good qualities in your current relationship that's keeping it good >> um how how did you live off the shame of by the way which is this is more like of a hypothetical question >> because no meaning how did you live off the shame of getting married and then it doesn't work out >> yes >> which is something that I think so many people have I can see it for self. >> I think one year in my second marriage, I was like so just to just for to put some magnitude to it, I was after years of inner work and going to retreats already and and and therapy regularly and I took already one course and one longer course in in my in one of the programs that I took and then I got married in a year and I was like, "Okay, this is not working." >> Oh, wow. >> And I had an easier time. >> The course is not working. >> The marriage >> The marriage is not working. Okay. >> I was a year in. I was like, "This is not working." >> Okay. >> And I was in a place where I'm I I was willing to accept that I'm going to get divorced again. >> Okay. >> And it was easier than the first time. >> The thought, >> right? because what I've developed I guess through in my 20s that was when I was 30 alreadyish. >> So I think that one of the things that I really really learned in my later 20s as I was doing a lot of inner work and deep soul >> um [clears throat] shed was like sh um skin shedding inner work really stripping layers of who I thought I was or who I thought I need to be or be seen as is a certain kind of personal responsibility over my feelings. Yeah. >> And I really started realizing which I'm still actively working on day on day off. Someone wants to hire me, someone doesn't want to hire me, someone is happy, someone is unhappy. I'm still actively working on it. But the value that I really see as a before and after is personal responsibility. And I see self-help. This whole industry of feelings is a are all methods of taking personal responsibility over my life and my experience, my relationship, my marriage. And one of the reasons people are not interested in inner growth or talking to someone is because they don't want to be victims. >> And to me, the whole idea of talking about feelings is to actually take personal responsibility, right? >> Including I am a victim. I am a victim and I'm taking responsibility over my victimhood. I'm limited. Everyone is a victim. >> So, one of the big switches from my first marriage in my young 20s >> is to understand that I'm responsible for my feelings, >> right? And I really went through that through my divorce. >> Mhm. >> Like the whole blame thing and famous falses what I deserve and what I don't deserve. >> So what happened there a year into the marriage when you were ready to accept that this is not working out. What what changed? >> It's a it was a process and there's something called process work. >> Yeah. >> Which is not a one or the other. You know everything we talk about there's someone that can argue the other unless they go through the process of 15 20 years 30 years. And you know, I have clients. I'm I'm honored to have people in my life that are 70s. I have a mentor that's in her mid high 80s. Maybe you'll podcast with her one day. I'll connect you. But um you know, I have people that do process work for decades and decades and decades. And >> so then it's not so what I'm sharing is not particularly a an opinion that comes from, oh, I think I'm right. I understand that there's someone that can think I'm wrong or that thinks opening up emotions is wrong and it's not helpful and what what good is it going to do with him and guide is helpful? What's the point? But I but I Yeah. What I'm saying >> what happened in that moment? Why did you think I understand you went the process but what happened? What did you feel in that moment? Did you feel stuck? Were you anxious? Was it was it something real? And you can choose to share how much you want. >> You mean a year in what was going on? >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Okay. So, it was just it was just shun to shine in the difficulty the differences between me and my wife. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, it was just hard reg now looking bad regular stuff, >> right? Obviously, >> conversation conversation style how I react to things, >> how she reacts to things, what how what she considers um I guess normal for lack of a better word. What I guess we were from worlds apart >> and how did you make it work? Why how did you make it work? So the what I was saying is process work which means personal responsibility which means to constantly go inward within myself and and find the truth >> that's bigger than the one I think bigger than I'm right >> right where are you from and where is she from >> so she is from Chicago >> okay >> and I'm from Har Park >> right >> she is kabad but also Chicago kabad and my father-in-law's family is from Australia which is within kabad it's a very and um very um different than the Brooklyn even not Jewish and not kidish a very different standard of mannerism >> of communication of what's considered important and what's not how you handle yourself like are you in a rush at 7:00 to an event or you can get there 8 n easy >> like a lot of these little bickering things even felt like like [laughter] very it felt like very big and I think that one of the biggest >> transformations for me in my marriage in life is if I have to take this process work and personal responsibility to specific for me is that when someone is upset at me to understand that I can be not good enough in something that I've done and I'm still good enough as a person. >> Wow. >> I think that that that's a giant switch and I think for men that's a very big one. >> Yeah. >> That if someone that I can do something not good and I am still good, >> right? Um recently someone shared with me something that he heard on a podcast about um shame versus guilt you know and I think that um I think there's a distinction to make between I'm guilty that I've done something that I don't like >> and shame >> I'm shame my core I'm not okay and I think when I can be okay guilt is not a bad feeling >> for many years I believe that guilt needs to be xed out from the dictionary because it's a it's a way to extinguish a person again with my fancy words that don't add up but it's a way to make the person becomes non-existent cuz you're so guilty you're so bad >> but when I discover that shame is the liar >> meaning core shame >> then then I can actually tell my wife I'm sorry >> right oh wow yeah for me >> has been a switch for me >> yeah anything that make your relationship better. >> It's one of the one of the big ones. >> Yeah. I I noticed for me that almost every feeling that I have kind of leads back to shame, which is that let's say I'm anxious now I have shame about why I'm anxious. >> Yeah. So one of my best friends Moshi Yong always teaches me he's like he's like Ellie yet makes the hope and anxiety meaning like says okay meaning shameful about the hope and anxiety and that's what I learned to feel into by the way and especially in relationships it's like says okay and the doubts and the questions about the relationship says okay you know like >> um I think that's very important I had a book called me. He's like and he's not doing anything says okay the makes feel there's no reason fulfilled at 16 you know that a lot of a lot of feelings when they're when they become depressing depression is right it's the same I think it's the same same thing depression is depressed depressed just explained was depressed depression is. >> So I think that um a lot of the the reason why a a difficult heavy negative shadow whatever the the word is feeling becomes depressing is because we look at the feeling as an answer to a to a problem. >> Why is this so hard? Because I'm not good enough. >> Correct. >> But really we can take the I'm not good enough and turn it into a question. Y >> am I not good enough? >> Wow. >> Yeah. So loves to say, he always says, >> right? >> And and I love this and you know question. Yeah. >> Yeah. But but then again, I'm also going to say clearly because you do work for people a lot of a lot of work. You do years of work for the same person also. And what I want to say is is that in the beginning when I was depressed and I had many episodes like that, it would take multiple months until it finished >> versus now I'm going through that same cycle in a few hours, in a day. Even in a minute, I can be depressed and come out of it >> because I learned to not attach to not the thoughts and not even the feelings. Meaning a feeling is a feeling says okay it will pass. And I think for the average listener or teenager that listens to this unfortunately they don't always have the tools and they say so feel depressed is that actually it's depressed for because he doesn't even know how to deal with it and I and he he doesn't amplify the good moment and he and he amplifies the bad moment. And I think that can be very difficult for people meaning >> it's very bad when I was in yeshiva when I was 14 >> no when I was 14 like what kind of stupid thing was this until at 24 I just cried but can you imagine for 10 years of my life I didn't want to cry I felt so ashamed ashamed of it. I felt so guilty about crying. It was something that I was upset about in yeshiva the do and where I camp and whatever like and so yeah so shameful and I said everything ended up working out perfectly and I told myself >> we're never going to cry cuz cry is a sign of not accepting God for who he is and nobody ever told me hey that that was what I did >> I never heard that crying is a sign of >> I'm very rel I very relate to that crying is weak And that crying is not something men do. >> Yeah. >> And the first time I went to a group, that's why I really like group work and that's why I do offer a lot of group work. Yeah. Which >> yours truly is invited >> to private group work. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I think tomorrow >> tonight I'm doing something. But we have a lot of things coming up. >> Yeah. And but um I think that the excitement in group work is to actually see that these things that are perceived as bad like very human like crying or having a feeling or sadness are so normal >> cuz if you have a room of 15 people or 20 or 50 at one point >> one retreat I've been I worked for it wasn't my program there were 40some people >> and you have people with very wealthy very young very old very healthy very sick You have people of all kinds, all men, >> and you start seeing that everyone experiences the same emotions. >> It gives a validity. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Men that men do. >> I was thinking I would I was thinking I would go with my with my partner. The question is is >> no it is again it depends on in [clears throat] that place I would feel more at ease at home like I know what this person can do for me which is to very much make me feel calm and grounded and also add meaning to things that I didn't feel so comfortable doing meaning to say that healing in a group setting because not that I ever tried it by the way but I don't like it because the idea is that made a private person. We discussed this but then but then >> but yeah >> you understand eventually >> a few things. So first of all, first of all about just the just starting with the last thing first about your wife wanting to go when you can go with your partner again it depends what's on the top of the structure on the on the on the value system if the value system is she is responsible for I should be comfortable that's we're going to talk then hopefully I see it as the meaning it's like >> yeah so if you He holds you accountable to the caregiver. You make me feel safe. >> Yeah. So that there's always a I'm saying that there's room for a lot of things to happen. It's just important to not turn it into the this is the system. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. There's a room for a lot of opportunity to grow into together with a partner. It's okay. I'm going to do this when I'm going to travel the world when I have some. I don't want to travel solo. Oh, if you would be more healthy, you would have traveled solo. Chill. It's okay. It's a partner. So, the other thing that I was going to that I wanted to jump into a little is not everything is for everyone, >> right? >> And I and I'm a very strong believer of that. >> And you're proof of it because you do individual coaching and you do group coaching. >> Yeah. And in coaching do that we have privates that people want to create a private setting for themselves. And it's really really I think in the healing world there's the reason why people don't like certain parts of healing and growth and group specifically is because there's a lot of dysfunction in it. Oh, >> there's a lot of there's a lot of like, oh, you don't do this because you're this. Like, let's say let's I don't know if you want to talk about psychedelics. That's a conversation to discuss, but like often there's certain psychedelics that I haven't done or I don't want to. >> And I'm and I've been I've been oftenly shamed by people within my uh peers, you know, people that I'm close with. It's like, how do you have an opinion? like these words that there's a place for genuine asking like why don't you or are you sure that you have an that you're right about your opinion because you if you never tried it but there's also a certain like specifically if someone wants me to register to their program it's like ah you're not doing it because you're scared if you really want to conquer the next step like like chill right >> but so I so I see a tremendous shadow side to all these to to many of these. I'm not gonna say all. It happens to be I know what you do and I think it's very very good. >> Um but I I have seen others that was in the conversation with them while they're trying to convince me to come. Yeah. >> There's toxicity >> for so for example I've seen it with two people that they they try to invite me >> and then they go into a conversation about criticizing other person that does it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And the rea you did that. You lost me. >> Yeah. >> Because if you can go and talk bad about somebody else. >> Yeah. >> Then why are you not talking bad about me? Why? >> There there is a power when it comes to I think sales as a whole like let's put retreats if that should be sold or not on the shelf. >> But there is a power in making a argument for my for my offer. And the key the kint yeah the kintes is to purify that and make an argument by talking from a place of passion and light and excitement rather than making an argument by saying what's wrong with that. >> Right? >> So I can do it right now in our conversation. I can say what's wrong with other programs is that there's a certain shaming them if they don't join. >> And I can say the other way of saying it is that one of the things that I'm really passionate about is sharing >> why I want to invite you. >> Yeah. and leaving it up to you if it's right for you or not. >> Right? >> See the difference? >> Yeah. >> And I think that people are scared in in again sales as a whole to trust that if I make an argument for why I'm passionate that that's actually going to convince the other person to come my way, >> right? >> They think that if I tell them a little bit like the parent with a kid, if I tell them what's wrong there with the with I mean really mean it from my heart. I don't Ellie, I don't want you to get hurt. just a sudden fall from the bike that's not clever the bike you should use that you should come to me >> but really I think that the that that in the bigger scheme of things or really giving something time to unfold like sales or like my program really to give time for my program to reach to the people that really really can benefit and it's right for them today me sharing from a place of passion and excitement and living by the value that I consider is so important to me living by it. Not by saying they don't do it, I do it, which I just did just saying. [laughter] >> But really, it's my avoidant. I work on it. >> Yeah. >> And you're busy. You're doing a lot of them. You have a lot of >> It's been It's been lately like very I'm very very grateful to >> see it um >> look and and and and be a space that I feel safe in. >> Yeah. >> I mean safe really that I don't go home doubting ever. I used to so a few years back there's a guy his name is Nakman who I worked for him at the time in his program >> and a pretty known program out there >> and I ran a group in Brooklyn. It's a follow-up support group for men. >> Okay. >> And after each group I used to check in >> with how miserable I was. >> Yeah. >> From my performance. >> And he used to encourage me. Used to say, "You're okay. You're a powerhouse. You can do it." And I'm so grateful for him because I would quit a thousand times. >> I felt like an impostor. I felt like I don't know what I'm doing >> throughout that's probably 10 years ago already. >> Yeah. >> What happened throughout the years and I've had many nmans that have just been there to see a certain light in me. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't >> So I didn't know why I feel so insecure. >> Part of it was old thinking of I'm not good enough. >> Yeah. And really if I didn't get reassurance from six out of six people every time um I I had self-doubt. Yeah. Right. >> But then I noticed that even if I get a reassurance a health niche. So I'm like okay it's my own inner >> I have to affirm myself and build that strength. But another thing that happened which I think is where my coaching is is is where I like to focus on in my work >> and also on retreats is to notice that something about the way I did things was uncomfortable to me. And it took years of dabbling and support of others to not quit until it's in a in my work or the work that I do specifically in group is in a way that I feel calm in my heart. [snorts] >> Nice. >> So there's two sides. >> How did you become calm in your heart? >> There's the I'm not good enough which I worked on a lot to build that inner reassurance to do it anyway to have people to to reassure me but also to actually in the world of mass what do I want to do different? What would it take? A question that I ask that I was asked a lot by my um guides and the question I ask a lot of people is what would it take >> to like it? >> 100%. >> It's in a business. What would it take for you to like to go into work? Well, work is not meant for that. I'm like who said it? >> I think it's also in a relationship. What would you want out of this relationship >> for you to like it? What would it take for you to like this relationship? And I ask myself that often >> and not being afraid to challenge it in those moments. >> Yeah. I even do it >> for married people. You're married. What do you want out of the relation? >> Yeah. I'll ask a client, do you like our our where our sessions are going? And I do ask the hard question, what would it take for you to like our next session? >> Not of me, of yourself. And then I ask of myself, what would it take of me, which is personal responsibility? What would it take of me to like showing up? Maybe I'm not focused enough. And I blame it on the on on on my whole life story that my whole life is going wrong, but really I'm not focused. I'm not present. And if I'm present, I feel really good. I feel calm. Like right now, I'm present. out, >> right? So, I think that part of what I I like the healing and where it comes from and seeing other realms and is a beautiful concept, but when it comes down to it, can I use the strength of I'm good enough to ask myself what would it take to make this better? >> Yeah. >> And in the last 2 3 years, I've been really liking the the work that that that's been happening thanks to the people that come around and the people in my life. I've been really liking it a lot more. I've been liking myself a lot more as a result of my work that I do and the coaching that I go to and the support that I have and the groups that I go to for my own >> growth, but also to tweak my work into a place where I'm actually excited to sit here and talk about myself in in my work, right? >> Because I I I really like the what it's come to. And I think that's a question that people are scared to ask sometimes, like what would it cuz because if I ask myself, what would it take of you to like it? What would it take of me to like it is it comes with responsibility to and also with a risk. What if I can't do it, right? >> What if I find out that what it takes to like it? >> Yeah. >> You know, let's say I have a job. A lot of people from here commute >> and there's a vision. If I commute every day from from from Lakewood to Brooklyn, I need a car that drives alone. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. What if I can't afford a car that drives alone? I've spent the mayor because otherwise the job was like the concept that I might actually have to find a new job might be too scary, >> right? >> Okay. >> So, I don't ask myself the question, what would it take for me to like living here in Tom's River as opposed to Brooklyn? I'm I'm moving towards moving. Let's say what would it take to live in in Tom's River? One is I'll have a self-driving car problem. >> Maybe. No, I'm not. But I'm saying likerooklyn. >> No, no, no. I live in I live where [laughter] I live. saying like I'm saying like a question a person asked themselves what would it take for let's say if a lot of people want to move but they're like it's too too much pieces to so the question is what would it take what would it take so the fir the easy answer is I'll buy a self-driving car >> right >> but what if I can't afford buying a self-driving car I'll look for a new job I don't like that answer >> right >> so I don't ask myself what would it take to like it so it's a lot easier to go and say oh the reason why I can't move is because I'm thinking I'm not good enough and I don't have confidence I don't have secure insecure and I need a program to transform me so I have more confidence. >> Yeah, >> there's another piece to it. >> Ask yourself what you need and start working the steps to achieve it. You need more income in order to move. Let's start creating a fund towards a move. It cost $100,000 to move. Where's the cash? >> Right. >> Let's get it. Let's start working for it. It's a lot of responsibility. >> Yeah. >> And it's scary >> because what if the answer is no? >> Yeah. >> What if the answer is not now? >> Right. But I think the question is what would it take for this to happen is a is a question to sit in for a minute and really write it down and really contemplate what would it think of the bah you're saying the 16 year old is depressed what if the depression is a question what would it take to be happy >> correct >> and what if I'm wrong with the first seven things I think specifically at 16 oh what I want to do is oane ocean is the dream of so many maybe of your viewers >> you know of the younger like what I would want to do is not be in the I'm like, okay, that that's one on a list. >> Yeah, >> I'm not sure that'll actually provide the happiness. >> Right. >> Right. So many, you know, so many things that we try when we ask the question isn't right. But it's the willingness to keep asking the question again and again and again. And I think with time, two years, 5 years, 10 years, we can come to a place we okay, now I'm comfortable what I'm doing, >> right? >> And I think that the combination of the two in inner work is I'm good enough, right? the internal notion then shame is is nashem is no one is worthy to to to not be and what am I doing by how am I how am I moving in this world >> in a way that I feel I like the way I like the way I roll >> a little a little the combination of the two >> is a place to where where things become a little bit >> easier for the for the person that feels a lot >> you know >> that's beautiful yeah >> so marriage personal responsibility and process Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I I think that's beautiful. I'm going to tap into one more thing that came up which is which worked for me every time is is trust. Because ultimately you're ready [clears throat] >> that's that's a big word trust. >> Because ultimately you always are ready on the way. It's like you're sitting on a train >> to let's say Switzerland whatever and you're like thinking I want to get to Switzerland when in reality you're already on the way to Switzerland. So, you're sitting in the train and you're saying, "I wish I was on a train to get to Switzerland." Like, >> in other words, you're always on the way to the thing that you want anyway. >> Yeah. It's a pretty trippy concept. Like looking back and noticing that at some point in my journey, I asked for exactly this. >> Mhm. To what? To trust. >> You're saying to trust because I'm anyway going where I'm going. I'm saying it's like sitting here >> this very day or whoever is thinking and notice that where I am today >> even the thing that sucks and I don't want to be in it >> whatever led to this to this moment there is a part that I actually wanted to happen I just didn't know it's going to feel bad >> but there's something that I wanted let's say a toxic relationship >> a relationship that's really um a lot of fighting there's a point where I wanted that person yeah >> it was a rooten or with with the system should there's a point where I said I want to be in I want to be married the day finally free so there is a piece of like I actually wanted this and it's trippy >> right >> it's trippy because there's so much I didn't want >> but there is something in it and a strong part that I actually wanted >> right >> I didn't know better >> I was a victim >> yeah that's what I'm thinking maybe it's just that my flow is better than other people's flow so meaning my train that I'm already on is maybe easier than others But I don't think it is. >> What are you talking about? >> I mean because >> where are you man? Come back. >> Basically [laughter] no I'm saying that I feel like there are certain >> when I surrender and trust I feel very good about it. >> About what? >> About surrendering and trusting knowing that the process is perfect. Okay. >> It's going to work out. The business deal, the money, the relationship, it's all going to work out. >> For some people their surroundings and the thing that they are in is very bad. So they they for them they feel like it's a lot more difficult to >> I don't think that >> there's a saying lay your bed or something like that like you choose vis you know what I'm saying >> I I think that the the art of being present and surrender >> isn't something still it's it's a kind of movement and we can we can we can we can >> you I'm saying many people when they surrender they find themselves in a very bad place to Switzerland >> correct Whatever the beginning of when I got present for the first time I was deeply depressed for about a year >> deeply depressed I was like happy healthy everything was going bad just just just to say something you said earlier about pain that it's less intense or less long for me to even stop now now in my day-to-day practices of of of just stopping and becoming present >> I I don't know about your tra train to Switzerland. I very often don't like where I'm sitting. >> Okay. >> So, it's it's it makes sense that it's very hard for people to surrender >> or trust >> when the first reaction to to seeing what's actually around me is not a a fruit tree. >> It's like it's like death and it's unhappiness and it's hopelessness. That's I think that what becomes better with time is to see that if I stop and become aware of where I'm at, even if the first moment or week or whatever eventually will get better, it opens up it opens up more possibilities and opportunities. Yeah, it opens up more opportunity and and that and that's and it's it's just a matter of becoming good not at being on the train to per to excellence but being on the on the >> train of presence. >> Yeah. Or more like Yeah. and and more like the muscle the nervous system response like in a body mish or for some people that are more mind is the mindset and the belief that stopping and looking around that whatever storm comes is more valuable >> right >> than than not looking and I don't think this comes as a flip of a switch >> I think it's a constant avoid which goes on for for the rest of a person's life >> is the co that it takes to >> stop and become aware of what I'm feeling even though I don't like the first hoof >> right >> that comes my way >> right yeah it's beautiful um I this question I wanted to ask you let me check my thing >> you cut out when you check no you guys checking and we whenever I got up he got up [laughter] it became the funniest thing. Like it was very funny. We all got up. >> You next get up. I stretch. >> Yeah. Um I wanted to say you can always stretch. Always stretch. Get comfortable. I didn't know. We're like an hour in, but I'm I'm having a good time. >> It's [sighs] my time well spent. Me too. Thank you. >> Yeah. Mi is like a few hundred an hour usually. So here I get him. It's one of the reasons why I opened the podcast. I get to meet so many important individuals. you know, Rabbi Manus Friedman, Jakov Schweki, Gar Elbas, we had like Lipish Meltzer, we had I had like really big guests. Yeah. And then big guests in the healing world, whether you know, Matthew Kanixburg, I I had a uh who the Fi Klein. I did uh lots of different uh therapists and did Esther Goldstein's a trauma therapist. She's amazing. >> Yeah, I think that's the one I I I saw of you is with a therapist, woman on a couch. >> So, it's an honor like I get I get it in. to very big important people and I always learn something important. I did the Jackie Glacer, she's huge, you know, dating and coaching, whatever. >> I think it's one of the most beautiful things about podcasts is to listen to the true story of people, specifically successful people. >> Yeah. >> To understand that what well-being really looks like, >> right? There's a misconception in social on social media books, right? Programs um and retreats particularly even therapy that is very um >> let's move away from that. Um and there is a misconception of what well-being looks like. And thanks to a lot of podcasts, you can hear really successful people that share what it's really like to live in their heart, >> right? And that's the ones that I sometimes like to find. It's like the anxiety that they have, the struggles that they have, the failures, the and and it's very easy to hear one thing, push. >> Yeah. >> But that's not a lot of these podcasts, not what they talk about. They talk about when they couldn't push. They talked about just the process. They a miracle. >> Yeah. >> They kept just waking up in the morning and it got better. This a book this book a reference to me a podcast that I recorded I think about a year ago which is how I called it I named it how I stay sane >> and I list over there like my daily routine could I could I for me to really stay sane and I list over there I do my walk my cold plunge my breath work journaling dvening what I have my whole thing and I talked to him six months after giving it out and he said he said podcast in but but meaning reference back to it and it made me feel so >> yeah so that that is true um so so that's true so first of all you hear that people do actual things not only for the project but for themselves in order to be better but the other thing I want to say which comes very much from my personal >> personality and it's a little bit different than your personality I'm very bad at routines I want I used to I used to post my cold plungers on my WhatsApp status >> and while I'm in it >> um and someone asked me how do you they um consistent and my response was I'm not I don't like I don't post every day I don't do it every day and in 10 year 15 I go on I go off I start I stop so >> I personally I'm not great at at this routine thing. >> Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So Moy always tells me he's like Ellie >> I think that your number one quality is that when you take when you start something you're consistent. Yeah. >> And I tell him I'm consistent out of fear not out of love. Everything in life is fear or love. I think it's out of fear of what happens if I don't do it. What happens if I stop doing it? The reason I for the last two years do first of all I've been doing cold showers for two years now every single day cold plunge or a cold shower. >> I think it's very very >> same as with breath work. same as with the journal. There's a whole list of things, morning walks, like I have a whole the thing there's more of a fear of what happens if I don't do it. Like I do not want to fall back into depression. And this is why I want to give a shout out because is that when I do go out of depression and I feel calm and present and good and happy in my life is that I will always validate those 20 30% of people that are actively going through deep deep heavy depression because those are the numbers and in our community it's not less. There's a 20 30% of people that have deep deep depression and what >> in the world these days. Yeah, that's the number. 20 20 20 30% of having deep episodes, unhappiness. 20 30% of people that are listening to this are having a really really bad time. And I want to tell these people that I have love for you. I I feel for you. I really do feel for people even when I don't know them. Like I can relate the feeling somewhat. And I also want to say that I'm here for you. Like my number is is in this podcast under every podcast. and and if there's any way that I can help and I have that a lot. People call me, I give them give them numbers of people they can get help that uh that that I'm really here for you like and and and it absolutely sucks. Like it does not feel good to be in a bad place and I'm also grateful to God every single day that I'm in a good place that thank you. I'm going to >> I'm one of those people that haven't found the trick. >> My life be I didn't find the routine. I didn't find the if I do these three things every morning. >> So maybe that's your trick. You keep on saying I'm not good in routines. Imagine yes being in a routine. >> I'm that's I mean looking back at 20 years of my life, I have a consistent track record of what I've been up to probably more than 20 years. But for the people that like listen, okay, if I only do a breath work and a sun exposure and then I buy these glasses and a meditation and this and this and this, I'm going to be fine. Two things. Number one, maybe not. I'm sure there's, you know, there's a case study for everything. Yeah, >> you can find one person that it didn't work. The other thing is some people are just not wired like that and then they start plowing on themselves. I need to be consistent. >> David Gogggins, >> David Gogggins is David Gogggins. David Gogggins is useful for me when I'm in the gym and I want to not go one more rep. I'm going to listen to David Gogggins. But to live David Gogggins is not me. >> It's a time. So, so what I'm saying is that not sometimes that 20 30% one of the hardships that it's made of one of the hardships of depression is to really think that I could find a solution that that person found and it doesn't work for them. >> Right? >> And I think part of your validation is is that I understand that this doesn't work for you. And what I want to add to your >> care is that there is a way >> to >> there is a way for you and I think that for people that the consistent regimen doesn't work it's going to be very much made of their own inner intuition. >> Yeah. >> Not a mind okay this is what I do but more like learning to listen to their body [sighs and gasps] >> and start noticing where they need to move what they need to do where they need to go. And again, if you look back, if you look back, if I look back, I'm like, okay, I do a lot of these things that you describe these days, but not from a place of rigidness and not from a place of this is my list to have a good routine, more like I learn to understand where to move at different times based on how I feel. And I think that's been helpful. And that doesn't mean I'm free. I'm not Some days I'm really not doing well. If I don't sleep enough, I don't eat enough. We spoke about this once. Yeah, >> I think I am I think that I don't remember when but once we spoke about um like the healing is sometimes so simple, right? But I learned to listen to my body in in the way where I understand that now I'm hungry and that has an effect on me, right? >> Right. But instead of I should do David Gogggins today. >> Yeah. >> Um and Yeah. And there's and then there is just days that are that are dark. I know there are days that are dark for me. I know friends and people that it's just really really dark. And >> question is why though? Why is always the question why? Because you see so I'm glad we're on we're on opposite sides of this. I've >> I'm not I'm not disagreeing. >> No, I'm just saying the question is always why >> because in my opinion most of the times there is a reason. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so and and that I think that's the whole idea of life is that you do in a sense take control and you play that dance with Hashem. You're letting him lead >> but you're also making the choices. If not, then it's then there's no point. >> I think there's a time. >> So, so when we talk about 90% of people are not sleeping enough and not eating healthy and then you're saying it's okay. It's not okay. You did it to yourself. At least acknowledge Okay, madame. That's my point. The darkness only comes for a reason. And by the way, I made that relationship with darkness, which is >> we got the song a little dark, whatever something. Basically, if there is darkness, what's going on? What's going on? What did I do wrong? Did I not sleep? >> So, I think these are I think that just like with thought about what's the primal belief of a marriage, she's my mother or not. I think with we can do it we can do it with this as well. Like there's different places to have. >> I think there's a place to just >> and I'm a victim to to my circumstances and then there is a place of personal responsibility. >> Correct. So it's a combination of both. >> It's different times. Yeah. >> You know, it's like even within like as as I get better at at at working with myself and >> I can do it quicker. I can be like I fully surrender to my powerlessness. >> Yeah. And I can activate my power. >> Right. >> And these are not contradict. You see in the world of of of of mind you can't I don't think I don't think you could but I can't think two things at the same time. >> Yeah. >> In the world so we cling to having a system of oh it's your fault responsibility. I'm like chill. >> Yeah. >> Right now I'm a victim to how I'm feeling which isn't a victim for my whole life and forever. right now I'm in a very hurting place and I can let that live and breathe for for a little and then I can go into the other realm of like what can I do today or what responsibility can I who can I call where can I go and that's why you're offering your your time >> because if you don't know where to call here is a guy that you can actually call >> and I do a lot of that in my practice I offer um I I like to connect with people unrelated if we'll coach or not as a as a way to share a shared them A shared value is that I get to um offer um um I get I get to offer value in in in an intake conversation and and but I and I also get to share what I do but I also get to offer value in that conversation and with the years I got really appreciated for that. I count like like to me I heard something amazing like um someone said I have I coach all day some pay some don't. the structures are different, >> right? >> But I like these conversations because I think everyone should have someone to talk to and maybe maybe I'm not the one they'll talk to every time, but if I can offer a conversation where it's a nice exchange. I get to share what I do and and put myself out and >> and and I also get to offer I think that's where you come in because there's a place where there's such despair that a person doesn't know what to do and you're like, "Okay, call me if you don't know what to do." >> Yeah. >> And maybe I'll be able to see something in you that you can't see in yourself. Right? You see, okay, I understand that you're 16 and you're stuck and you don't know what to do. You don't have a choice. And maybe you can see that they can take on running, >> they can take on reading, or they can, yes, tell their father how they feel, >> right? >> You know, they think that it's not going to work, but maybe they it could work. And I think another person can really shed light on that despair. Um, one of the most powerful things for a lot of these heavy sticky darkness like um, shame um, addiction, compulsion is when we let another in. It really adds >> perspective than when it's done alone, >> right? >> Yeah. Beautifully said. >> It's really nice of you to offer that space for people. I think it's very special. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. And I I I so I personally, you know, there's a fantasy book that I want to write and I and I want to call it black and white because I think that there are certain things in life that are black and white and certain things that are not black and white. The black and white things in life are there are certain methods of whether it's the breath work or a cold plunge or a gratitude journal or reading a book that will always make you feel better. Besides when a person doesn't have the muscle to go and do it. >> Okay. So, what are we talking about? He or she is in bed all day. What's the >> whatever that looks like? >> Meaning there is you can call a friend. >> I I signed up a coach two years ago. I was laying in bed while he called me. Signed up with him for coaching. >> Yeah. He said, "I'm here in bed. I It's a middle of the day. I don't have energy to get out of bed." >> Yeah. >> So, there's always something that can be done. >> Yeah. And I think that that goes back to what you said about taking responsibility. >> It's time to take that responsibility. Too many people that I talk to, I can exactly see what's wrong. Now, they might be stuck. And that's also a conversation that I wanted to ask you, which is that how does somebody see if they're stuck? Because maybe I'm stuck right now in having this idea of telling you that it's all about physical things. Or how does somebody know? Maybe they're stuck in a specific business where they want more growth, but they're stuck or obviously they're stuck in a relationship, which is the biggest one. >> Yes. I tell people that getting divorced >> Yeah. >> is as much work as being in a relationship >> because when we show up to what's really in front, it slowly unfolds and clarity comes. >> Yeah. >> So, how do you know if you're if you're you were saying if someone is stuck, how do they not know that they're being stuck? Yeah, >> I think that first of all um both could be true at the same time. You know, a good friend of mine recently introduced me to an idea that a six and a nine >> is the same number just on two sides of it. So, a person could be stuck and unstuck simultaneously, which means the very same thing that I think is stuck could be my greatest gift. The very same thing that >> um that feels like I'm I'm king of the world puts me later in death. Like that's and I've experienced all all of that and I'm actively experiencing things that I think are good are really not great for me and things that are great are not are wonderful for me like specifically pain. A lot of my pain that I think is not good is really good for me in the sense where a lot of what I know about life and about um myself and about people and about creating these space. It comes from my pain. >> A lot of it comes from there and then I went seeking and I went asking and I went learning. So it's it's I'm in a place where I can see things as really both. But I think that um >> a person can only um know as much as they know for the moment. But I do think that having um >> having a willingness to be wrong ends up >> shortening the the lies as much as possible. The willingness, like I said initially, like the willingness that my wife can tell me, >> why are you talking not? The willingness to hear. It's like, come on, tell me what I did wrong. At some point in my marriage, I got excited when she calls me out. Even though I get sour and miserable and moody >> in me, I got excited. I kept I started like two years into this marriage, I got really clear that I'm part of me just grows every time she calls me out. >> Yeah. because I am sometimes impatient and I throw my my expectations on her and I'm not being in reality of what's happening. I'm doing a lot of things at the same time. So I think the willingness to be wrong and coaches they call it to be coachable. >> Yeah. >> The willingness to be wrong ends up making that process the truth quicker >> and sooner. >> Yeah. >> You know there's a generic list like surround yourself with blah blah blah read blah blah blah. But I think again a person is where they are and the wrongs of today are the rights of tomorrow very often. And a real value which is on the highest I think value is the highest point in our consciousness. What I really value is the willingness to be wrong. And I think narcissism and a lot of issues come when the psyche isn't able to be wrong very well. >> Yeah. >> And I hurt badly when I'm wrong. Yeah. >> I'm not saying I have a a stinky ego, >> but I I see it and I know it and I acknowledge it and I got comfortable talking about it, >> you know. So, I think that the willingness to be wrong, not to walk around I'm wrong, not a shame I'm bad, the willingness to constantly evolve. A very um wealthy person, very successful person, like not new, not new wealthy. He's in the 70s wealthy for many years. He told me that a lot of people know how to jump in and do something. Very few people understand when it's time to say I was wrong and and and fold and leave. >> Wow. Right. Right. Wow. >> And with certain things, it doesn't work like that. Like marriage. Marriage is not one of those things that you fall. It's one of those things that I keep finding out. And actually, instead of saying I'm at the end of my rope, I'm asking myself, "What don't I know?" >> Yeah. like tell me what I don't know, >> right? >> You know, my therapist, tell me what I don't know. A counselor, tell me what I don't know. Sex coach, tell me what I don't know. >> Right? >> Um um you know, spiritual guide, spiritual mentor, tell me what I don't know. Tell me what I don't know about a minute. Tell me what I don't know about Yiddish. Tell me what I'm missing. >> Right? >> And constantly doing that, I think, is what people what people we look at as sadikim have done their whole life. And we look at them as legend. But again, if you read to him as you do, you see that there was no perfection there. There was there was an ask. There was an ask that tell me how to be okay with my son, >> right? >> Like cuz I don't know how. >> You tell me how. >> Right. >> And I think that's a state to enter the surrender thing you're talking about is a certain vibe that eventually you can feel in your body of entering a place of curiosity and the willingness to learn and not being destroyed every time I need to learn something new. And that I'm like slowly getting to. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I'm nowhere there. >> Yeah. >> It's interesting because I had a rough um last day too and with a whole month of kids off school, it was just so much >> and I really got a wake up of a lot of these feelings of of what they're like. >> Yeah. And >> I had that. Yeah. I had that last week. It was very rough for me. I came coming back from Orlando. I I landed [laughter] now like I >> rough landing now. Now I feel like I'm here. Life is good again. Okay. >> Wow. >> Starting let's start working on business again. Let's start looking for that house. Let's uh continue continue that relationship, you know, like I feel like finally everything is back in in check. And don't get me wrong, that that that week of shakiness made me see more than I was able to see in the last 6 months. So, >> that's where I, you know, I very much agree with you that is >> this is just it is a process and you're going to see what you're going to see >> and and it's good. >> Yeah, it's just Yeah, it's the I think that a thing I'm really stuck on the thing you said about the 20 30%. >> I sort of really I'm really thinking about them and I'm thinking about myself when I'm one of those 20 30% of the spear when I used to live there a lot more. I'm really like I think that um someone that can be compassionate and handle it is very powerful. Compassionate that's where therapy is so beautiful because therapy is actually not about that what am I going to do about it. It's a place that the feeling is allowed to exist. >> Yeah. I'm also going to add get yourself a good partner a good a good partner or or rekindle the relation >> build it with your partner. Teach them that you're not Santa Claus or teach them that you're human. But that that's what I >> get get them immune that you can provide safety in your relationship. Yeah. >> Even when you're not in a good place. >> Oh. So exactly. So that's that's literally what I learned in the book love and what is together with my friend Moi. We we kind of studied that of like >> Katie's book. >> What do you need? Yeah. Like that is loving what no loving what is I love. Yes. But also getting the love you want. That's very much in in terms of relationships understanding what it is that I need and when do I need it, why do I need it? >> Yeah. >> And I think that uh every person in the world has that need to be understood and heard and valued and appreciated or whatever. And once they have that, I think it really takes care of >> beautiful. Now then comes the things you're talking about which is what can I do? What didn't I do? What did I contribute for this depression? But I think the first thing to create is a sense where this experience is allowed to be in the existence of another >> scared because if I get scared away and I think I'm I'm at the end of my rope >> being in the presence of someone that can handle it and they don't get scared away naturally naturally it's like it's you know what a resonance is like when you take a tuning fork >> and you put it near another one it starts dinging in the same so >> you know a lot Um friendships are drama machines. >> Yeah. >> Where one person is this and grinding in in in hate and and whatever and gossip. So one can make themselves feel in the same there's another kind of friendship or support or professional support whichever capacity it is where the other can actually hear feel the feeling and still hold a higher truth and that rubs off. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It really rubs off. >> Yeah. Nice. I think one of the things that I've developed in the last few years of this understanding what I want to do in my work that actually relaxes my insecurities by doing it right >> to my to my calling. One of the things that I've learned is nature and I think that um >> in the high of there is a very big disconnect not everybody there are people who are nature fanatics mides they understand the beauty >> right um m I want to give you a chance before we wrap up the podcast to talk a little bit about retreats coming up a little bit how it works um I can say my experience first is that I know mati does beautiful retreats science one lake sometimes in Costa Rica under exotic places. He posts all of them on his WhatsApp status. Um there's also a website, right? >> And email way to be on top >> email list >> because I'm a fan of not having status. >> Okay. Oh, so it's email more. >> So I put everything on status, but I'm myself getting off status. So I believe that other people are doing so too at some point and not >> to not just be on there all day. Email ends up being a really good place to >> Yeah. and he also does private coaching which I personally work with him one-on-one and I know that he's an amazing coach, an amazing guy and his retreats are beautiful. I know many people went to his retreats and I really had a good nice experience not very I think it's the specialty is that it's not very intense it's more like of going on a excuse me on a vacation where you just get to do >> so these days I moved away from offering a vacation I I I've I've evolved with my retreat world I have a passion for travel overlook and the views and all that. So I used to focus on giving both and what I noticed is that people can do that very well on their own if they want to. >> And some people don't want that. >> So my retreat program in itself has in it a very relaxed side. There isn't a like like there's an opportunity for you to be yourself as you are without with as much ease as possible throughout the process of of the work that we do which is just hard work and truth work and selfwork becoming a selfwork but not in a way where it's a million miles away from who I actually am on a regular day. So I don't develop these two identities which ends up happening. People have their healing life and they have their life and they're so far from each other. We try to bring in the people that I work with and the values that we hold is that it's not out there. It's here. >> So the retreat in itself hasn't it a very human um regular side to it. >> Right. I heard that it's not and we're not opening up a can of water. >> Yeah. It's not particularly a trauma retreat. heal their traumas in a very deep way. We don't particularly, there's no need to share anything specific, but it's a very powerful, transformative experience. Some retreats we do local and they're short, >> okay? >> Like Swan Lake and LA for the LA community, people that want to come to LA. It's a beautiful state. California is very beautiful, the weather overlook. Um, and then we also do um destination places. So, what we're doing now, let's say our next retreat in Costa Rica >> is a weekend. And I'm sure some people want to just come for the weekend and go home. The place is stunning. >> You know, they say in Costa Rica that um um um it's a jungle. The whole country is a jungle and humans are the guest. It's not like the spider is the guest. And it's felt. It's very easy to be there. And it's a it's a very safe, beautiful country. It's different than Mexico and other places. >> Okay. >> And so we spend there the weekend. And if people want to stay longer, they they they they extend their trip or the retreat in itself is is >> only the weekend >> is the weekend. >> And what what do you do on the weekend if you want to share? >> So um it's very hard to explain a vibe >> that we try to create and it's really co-created by everyone there by literally being themselves >> in the truest version of themselves. And oddly that's a that's a kdish. >> Yeah. >> It's a kesh because even in healing spaces now I have to be the healer and I have to be the this and I have to sit like that and I have to be present or I have to talk about this trauma or be like that or cry as loud at that person. The the the vibe that we that we really really try to embody and I try to embody it in my work is that the truest version of myself is is what's needs to happen today and that constantly evolves. >> Oh wow. So the retreat itself has a structure, you know, we'll we do breath work and we set intentions, we're journaling. It's very deep work in a nonchalant way in a way that it's >> normal and it's it's it's and I watch the change that happens for people and it's very very humbling besides my own growth. >> I would like shake my >> shake in a podcast like this. I would be very um planned and I would bug beforehand and ask you questions. What are you going to talk? What are you going to ask me? What is on limits off limits? I had these categories of life. This is my family and this is my work and this is my income and this is my healing and and now all of it is just one. And I think that's the way we do these practices that are known. >> Yeah. >> And we work with psychedelics, >> right? >> Not on all retreats. Like the Swan Lake has one day that's that's breath work, meditation, um guided processes, a lot of human connection and and and it's all um um steered towards openness and becoming the best and most powerful version of self. Um but but um but it's but it's and but it's also like chill in a sense like the seriousness is not uh dramatic I would say but um so [snorts] we we split it in in Swan Lake like so we have one day that's that's these inward practices that you know well and then there's an option to stay for for two nights and then we work with medicine >> the medicine we work with is wuma >> right >> you're familiar with it >> yeah told me it's very different than other >> medicines um I work with people. I'm not the one that that makes it or serves it, but I have a deep beautiful relationship with this particular medicine. I think that it's um a very delicate question for people. I don't think it should be taken lightly and decide, oh, I'm doing this and >> yeah, >> but I do think that um that what we offer is is a very beautiful place of entering a deeper level of self and of power and of emiss. Um it's not a trip medicine. It's not like, oh, you take something and you're out of here. fleeing and zay zing. It's not a hallucinative drug. It doesn't activate hallucinations and it doesn't particularly um a person is fully themselves the whole time which is what I love. But it widens and opens space to be more of self and specifically it's like a MS radar. [laughter] It's that and coming home from these retreats I have a really hard time bsing myself >> right >> like I suffer if I BS myself >> right >> and that's why I like going back to stay in check on my truth. You asked them earlier like how do I know I'm not BSing myself? One of the offerings we have is to develop that not only in logic but in feeling and in sensation a stronger access to gut which is amus right so there's thinking there is feelings which could be liant to the emis but it's a feeling and then there's gut which is a certain am I think that a lot of the work we do is to access that place of gut and the highest value we have is going home and starting to live life and move from a place of MS and make real change from a place of emis and the person the people I work with share that they believe that the highest value isn't the retreat it's going home and >> and really measuring what I've I've been doing and is it working is it good for me does it make me closer to my wife or further do I start developing a triple not a double life a triple life >> you know the yeed the the fake initi in the in the healer like it's about integrating these parts and becoming one one whole person because we are at Salem Alikim which is one whole person with all of our scatterness we are one >> cuz we are we are it's all held by one >> so for what type of person do you think this is >> we have a very mixed diverse crowd we have him balbat zidis um in their 40s and 50s and we have 20s >> how are they getting to you how are you finding that >> how do you find me the weirdest artist >> friend of a friend or whatever >> that's what's been happening Um, I haven't, yeah, I don't do much on social media. I have a little bit of Instagram going, but I don't register that way. And maybe I will. >> How are you filling up all your retreats? I mean, you have uh I know you're full and stuff. [sighs] >> Yeah, it's been it's been it's been magnificent. Really a lot of word of mouth, a lot of I'm doing good work. Like really, that's what I'm saying. Like I want to come home and feel energized and excited to be a better person. And if I feel like I'm like I'm achieving that rather than I'm depleted and I'm living some double life myself. When I feel I can leave a single life, you know, come home and and easier go and do what I need to do, show up, be helpful, be grateful for my wife that I was able to go away, you know, I know that we're doing good work. And >> it's a fine line of the work and actually it being applicable. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I think that a lot of what you like to do privately is because of that. You want it to be you. >> You don't want it to be some some stink, some drama. >> Yeah. That's how I felt regarding workshops when it was introduced to me five six years ago. >> It was workshops with like 50 people or something and people were just sitting in a in a lunchroom and and yelling and screaming and sh and I understand the style to that. I understand it. It's >> it's not everyone's journey. >> There's some Tony Rams does a workshop with thousand people like I I can see that but for me it never felt like that. call you. So ours has a nice blend >> and also what happens with these works is there was like 50% of people would go home and say I don't know I wasn't I felt a little bit left out. I didn't do much. >> So we do that too. We we really try to translate the experience into real practical life on a very personal level >> and I think everyone there offers that to one another. It's really beautiful. Like we had the 73y old nurse and the 23y old Tom's Riveridus and they somehow offered value for each other. >> Right. Right. >> What a beautiful thing. And that's that that's a that's a co-created space. I told them Joel who's my partner in the retreats. I told him last night we started a group and I was pretty anxious. It was the first one and a lot of new people in my circle. And I told them, I think I have to actually live in what I preach to actually let everyone bring their value and stop controlling so much. Yeah. Right. Because that's a value that I think every single person that shows up brings who they are and it's actually valuable. Right. >> And when someone else receives it, when I receive your value, you actually feel valuable. >> Yeah. >> And when you receive my value like you have been doing the last two hours, I feel valuable >> and we help each other that way. And we help each other grow. Okay. We take different roles. I create a program. been doing it for a lot of years. But I do feel that once we step into a space to a sacred space of of bettering and creating, we all bring who we are. Someone as the receiver, someone as the giver and sometimes I need to remind myself that when I'm tripping, I'm very anxious. I mean tripping. I mean anxious. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for for asking. >> I didn't know you mentioned anxious a few times. I didn't know that's like a thing for you. Anxious. >> Yeah, it's a big thing for me. It's a big thing. some sometimes worse, sometimes better and sometimes um you know sometimes I can't I need a break. Sometimes I need 2 hours to just relax. >> Yeah. >> And the best thing that happened for me is to give myself the 2 hours, >> right? >> Um no. Okay. I'm not functional for 2 hours. >> Yeah. >> So that's not that changes it from 3 months to 2 hours >> and it happens less frequent which you mentioned earlier. >> Yeah. >> B retreat is the name. B-ret.com. My name is the is is my website. You can find everything there. Monty Koigber. >> My kenningsburg.com. >> Kenningsburg.com. >> Nice. >> And my cell phone works. >> I don't have a manager. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I'm going to put all your information down in the description, your number, your WhatsApp, the website. So, if anybody wants to get in touch with Miy or uh see what you know, more information about him and what he does, they can find it. >> Um Miy, thank you so much. It was a nice conversation down the road. It was really good. Thank you. >> Thanks, man. Excellent. All right, friends. Like like I always say, uh like, share, subscribe, share it with a friend. Let me sit down again. Share it with a friend that can enjoy. And um we're on now. You're the producer. >> There you go. >> Oh, nice movement. Share it with a friend that can enjoy. As always, I did record extra bonus content over here for the members. So, if you join the membership, I would really appreciate it. Supports the channel. You'll get to see extra bonus footage from every episode that we record. You'll get to join a personal WhatsApp group where you can have conversations with me and uh just means a lot. And thank you for all the people that sometimes leave a super like, a super comment, all these things, donations, whatever, support, comments. It really means the world to me. Thank you so much. Thank you for watching this episode. As always, I love to hear your feedback message in the comments episode future guests and I always love to hear your feedback because based on what you say is the guest that I bring up next and when people recommend the guest, I go directly and I message that person and I ask them if they want to come on. So, I really always appreciate your uh feedback. messages of the hotline. So the this of the hotline, thank you very much. I always hear the messages and I appreciate it. 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Now I want to make a special offer which is for the next five people that sign up will receive their gift. This beautiful positivity which positivity of deat drinking positivity drinking positivity of the Andrazad. I will either deliver it to you or bring it to you personally for the next offend of members of Sanov. Even if you only sign up for one month, I will give you this beautiful gift to shine a cup and uh just my way of giving back to the people. Thank you very much and I appreciate you. Thank you for keeping us the number one podcast out there. Thank you.