Why I will NEVER tell someone to go into Chinuch | Eps 8. | Let's Talk Mailbag

I will never ever tell someone that yes, you should go into because I'm not paying your bills and it is not a lucrative business. >> If you think is forcing your kids to behave in ways that are not natural and don't make sense to them in the hopes that somehow miraculously that sticks, well, you got the wrong conception. >> Welcome to the Learning Curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha Magazine. >> [music] >> We're raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing [music] families today. >> I'm Rabbi Garfield Manal of Yeshiva in Houston and I love talking about >> I'm Rabbi Ari Shfeld Manal of Katana Manhattan of Bipra Manhattan director of camp. I also love talking [music] and of course a little bit of fishing. Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. This season's learning curve is brought to you by Israel Bookshop Publications. If you are like us, you love reading. 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Head to israelbookshopations.com, click on the sales section, and start browsing. That's israelbookshops.com. The only online winter warehouse sale is live now until Monday, President's Day, February 16th. So, shop now. Welcome back to another episode of the learning curve. Rabbi Garfield, how are you? >> Hashem Hashem, we're halfway there. Halfway through the season. Can you imagine? >> We're halfway through season three. >> And as our listeners have already heard, we've even had some sponsors who have now joined the learning curve, which again shows to bar. I think I hope the impact the positive impact. I have to start I have to start by saying this story happened in my house last week and I hope I don't get in trouble. Usually I start then I get in trouble but you're causing me major problems. Major >> major yeah one of my children was wanted something I whatever it doesn't even matter what it was right and she felt we were being too hard on her or him. He she leaving it there. So this child says to my wife I want this and this. I was like, "No, we decided it's not for you." Now, you know what? Rebe Garfield would agree with me. >> I love it. I love it. I give me that kid's address. I'm sending them whatever they wanted. It's coming in the >> Rabbi Garfield would agree with me. I'm like, seriously? In my house. You say that. >> That's awesome. That is awesome. Oh my gosh. >> But >> that's really funny. >> Yeah. You're now >> you're like a meme now. You're a meme now. House. Why don't you go Garfield? Ma, could I stay out late? No, my just guy's got Garfield. I'm sure he'll let [laughter] >> That's a really good story. I like that one. I'm gonna have to send a gift to that. >> I'm happy you I'm happy you happy you appreciate the story. All right. So, to set up this episode, we do not have a guest. We are the guests. Or maybe more than that, the readers are the guests tonight. We're going to begin with a response to one of our previous episodes because you know Kahara we got so much feedback or more just questions and we're only able to do two or three a week. So for one week we're going to have I think it's eight something along those lines of eight questions as opposed to two or three and we'll see how if we can do this in an orderly fashion. The first one I'm smiling because in episode I think it was three in which we discussed music and I know there's a song the Zusha song which I came out right afterwards I think the same day that the episode timing >> that made me look really bad but it's I think on both sides we were both very passionate about it about and you could listen to episode three it's actually labeled let's talk but it was a interviewed by Spir we discussed the pros and the cons and the challenges maybe of the new music players. And we got a lot of feedback on both sides. Very a lot of people thought I was great. A lot of people thought you were great. I >> You're being very generous of yourself. >> Enough. >> Sorry. Go ahead. Please continue. Continue. >> Um I just met I met someone recently who comes over to me, a woman, and says, "Hello, you don't know who I am. I live in Chicago. Your episode on that music was incredible. I agree with every single word you said. tour to a young man from Eritra who's thinking about moving to Lakewood. He's checking out Houston and he said, >> "I agree with you a thousand%. You're I" I said, "Oh, can I get that recorded? I have to bring that to but it is true. We definitely struck a chord and I'm sure by now it's um come out, but I actually wrote an open mic on that buffet magazine to just flesh out my opinion a little more. By the time this comes out, I'm sure it'll be ready." So, there's definitely a lot about that. Yes. But with that being said, I do think there's a point that this is me should needs to clarify. I got a lot of feedback with a similar tone. I picked maybe the harshest tone. So, I'm going to read the following email that was, "Dear and it starts, DTLC, I am sorry, this is harsh." So, I'm a big boy. I'm going to put on my big boy pants and I'm going to read this email. Dear TLC, I'm sorry this is harsh. But as hosts of a Kinuk podcast, the expectations are much higher and demanding. And I love this podcast and the both of you. Very nice. I want to address stance on personal music devices. I was upset with condescending attitude toward the RV, especially in such a public forum. You are allowed to disagree but respect the ability for kids to have doesn't mean me the RV Garfield. He means we were responding to Arav who com. Okay, continue. I know the is worried about my covets. I want to make sure that's not what he's worried about. >> Good. Good. The ability for kids to have thousands of songs at the f fingertips and the ability to just skip if they don't like it does on a certain level give them the feeling of if I don't like something I can just skip it until I get something that I like. This is such a wrong message for life where it's not about getting everything that you like on a silver platter. If you don't like your rebi switch class, you like your yeshiva. Just switch yeshivas. if you don't like your spouse da da da da da. So I don't want maybe we can go back to that conversation if you want or they could just read the go back to your previous Mishbaka magazine read mic Garfield. So I want to at least clarify my when I spoke on episode 3. I do not take back my my my position is as strong as it is now as it was then after talent shows. I still maintain my position. However, I actually reached out to the Rob who wrote that email and I apologized to him because I think this reader is or this listener is 100% right. I listened back to the episode and I was very disappointed in myself. I thought I said to the RV in an email exchange, "Have you ever heard of Mike and the Mad Dog?" And he said no. Could have been he did, but Mike and the Mad Dog were a big sports radio entertainment when I was growing up in New York. And I said what I realized after that episode and maybe as someone in the world of I should have realized this sooner is that exaggeration or being trying to be Gishmak to make a point and I don't want to use the word entertainment but to try to be fest for a lack of a better word was maybe where my tone was coming from like you know some of the the sports radio jocks and it was totally inappropriate. I felt bad. I apologized to him to the rv in an email and I I was I I I sounded condescending and I did not it was not my best moment. So it was I again I stand by my position strong but it could have been said much softer with much more and it wasn't and behalf of our listenership we applaud your honesty and your integrity that you're taking that stand. It honestly when it happened I don't remember. It didn't speak to me. I guess in the heat of it I was just like going with you. I didn't think of it but but if you feel that's the case you're certainly I respect. >> So that's all. >> Let's not rehash that topic. As exciting as it is. I think you and I could go down a rabbit hole as we do so often on that topic. If anyone wants to break into our WhatsApp, they could feel free to have a lot of entertainment. But I think it's encrypted. But regardless, let's move on. >> I'm going to read you the next question. And like Rabel said, like we're these are cold with the help of our Mishbaka staff to pick out some of the ones that resonate or whatever. Thank god there are many more than this and great voice messages and all sorts of good stuff. And we're going to we're pulling some of the highlights here. Okay. Dear TLSC, as a parent of an 11th grade son and one of the wonderful miffas in Lakewood, my son came home one day posing the following question to me. His Rebi talks very strongly against having texting capabilities. When his rebi talks against smoking or drinking, he understands. But how could he talk so strongly against having texting when this rebi and all the yeshiva have it? The bakim see them texting in yeshiva sometimes even in the base mish if texting is such an aazor like they say it is why do the rebum have it? Shouldn't they be setting a good example for our kids when they are seen texting in front of us? Doesn't this make the whole idea cow to the buck? >> So [sighs and gasps] I think whenever you discuss and we can get into the technology piece, but I don't think this is has to be the question was about technology and about texting, but it really could be about anything. Let me rephrase the question. Rebi speaks about how drinking is so horrible. And then I was at a last night and made a right and had a drink. If drinking is the worst thing ever, how can so I think it's nuanced but I think there it matters therefore how you speak to in other words if you're gonna tell let's say about smoking that's how you quote and about doesn't reply anymore and you're gonna are going to see you smoke you're in big trouble right yes I don't have an answer to that rebi so if the rebi is talking about texting or drinking in in a sense that you're a yeshiva bakar and when you're growing as a yeshiva bakar the idea let's say drinking out of it let's talk about the texting right yeshiva is a tva and there's supposed to be an exclusivity to your mindset and your focus and your growing mind and I want I don't want to take your focus right if it's in said to the bakim in terms of growth and where you are what's important for you now then I don't see an estee contradiction at All if the rebi is texting now yes if the rebi tells the you're never ever ding and he's texting during ding people aren't perfect and make mistakes too right the problem rabbim get into in whatever yeshiva they're in is when they scream in exaggerated tones right or they talk about isurim and yagal yav and it's the and it's the worst then why do you have texting right kids can't drive and adults Kids should not have phones with any sort of internet capabilities and there are adults that have it. So the difference between a child and an adult shouldn't be hard to split. And I don't know the messaging that this son is getting from his rebby, but his rebby has to be careful. I'll just share that that I know too much about sports, right? I grew up a very big sports fan. I still know too much about sports. You will not hear from me to my talidim that sports is user. I'll never say it. I can't. Now I might talk about the importance of not missing nights to for sports and I might talk to them about the Super Bowl about trying to realize the values of things like that. But if you speak something loudly and you make a bombastic or extreme statement, yeah, then you might get caught with your hand in the cookie jar. But the concept of a Rebi telling Tom you shouldn't have texting and thereby be having texting to an 11th grader shouldn't be such an impossible sug. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. It's very it's good. It's interesting. I never thought about expressing why texting is a problem. I guess it's like so foreign from my life in Houston that like usering texting. But you said an interesting thing and I'm curious about that. What's your understanding about why yeshivas don't want their guys texting? So I took a course when I was Arabian YBH from Dr. Ellie Shapiro and Mrs. Tamima Feldman called digital citizenship >> digital citizenship >> and I taught that course to my middle school in YBH and I showed them and through beautiful I think the curriculum the dangers of anonymity on the web when it comes to emails and texting even if your name is attached to the It's not it's not anonymous attack >> even. So the data is incredible the difference between what a person is willing to say. I think they they even interviewed and they they told certain segments of yeshiva maybe in the more modern segments of society. But would you curse? No. Would you curse in a text? Yes. The numbers was like triple. When it's not you yourself, you're willing to be coarse, crass, inappropriate, and like like Lam Marshall. She would never call a girl. Just wouldn't happen. You wouldn't call a girl up and talk to her. But his sister's friend, and he has a friend right now, he'll make a mistake and text her. The ability texting is a little bit of like a gateway into in just being inappropriate and silly. Besides the bullying in group settings and and it >> so that makes sense. That's one of the if that's the case let's say. So I could hear a rebby saying an 11th grade boy doesn't need it. It only is going to make trouble. It's only going to be a life their way of talking or connecting to people we don't need. It's not worth it. But an adult is like a different part of that with it. >> Yeah. >> Right. But again as his mother is saying that >> they say it's about the Zara. It's right >> right. It's about the Zoro. If you use that type of language, you box yourself into a >> corner% 100%. >> That's it. >> Okay. All right. The next one is an audio. And I really like the audios a lot. They're very enjoyable. We can't play all the top most enjoyable ones. Okay. So, here is the audio. >> Hi, I really really enjoy the podcast. There's always such interesting guests and insights. I also enjoyed the recent podcast with the monolum at that convention and I just wanted to make a a little comment and maybe a question. Um you know the at the end discussing how they did not medicate the child and they were able to circumvent that with you know a lot of work on their part to you know keep that going. I I did notice how we use the term you know we did not medicate the child you know we did not the term as if the school medicates the child and I understand that it's a complex issue in schools because schools can let children go if the parents do not comply with the school standards and at the same time I think there is a wider issue here of like the school taking on that role of what we do to the children when of course it is the parents um choice it's the parents decision for their children parents are generally trying to make the best decision for their children and I wonder if that's a conversation that could be discussed further, you know, the role of the school on and the role of the parents and how how to make that work, you know, on a complete level. So, thank you for everything you do. >> Okay, a very fair question and I don't have a lot to say. Yeah, it is the parents ultimately. It is the parents. I mean, I can't speak for Hela. >> Your job is to have a lot to say, Rabbi. What do you have a lot to That's your job. >> I mean, she's right. the I don't know why the I don't remember who said that and what the context was honestly offh hand but like really I would say it's the par parents need to be take that responsibility and it's their decision I think sometimes parents have like predetermined bias against >> well it's ultimately the parents decision even if the school says to the parent your child right now is not functioning in a way that allows him or her to stay in our school. So, so when you that it's very easy to say, "Yeah, it's the parents decision. It's the parents decision." But the school is not just telling to medicate for fun. The school is telling you medicate because we can't have yank in our class. >> So, what do you mean it's the parent? >> Listen, I don't think a school I think let me tell you with a story. Not a story, but a misa miser. Okay. Someone asked me. Yeah. Someone once asked me one of my >> I like that. >> No, one of my Ezra Nubber who passed away this year. He was a rush and s Baltimore and I forgot the whole context of the conversation but someone asked me they they're an adult with ADHD and when they take their ADHD medicine they're able to learn much better. They discovered this later in life. They didn't know about it when they were younger. So they they like discovered the power of ADHD medicine. Like that guy could learn better. So the question that they're ask we were talking about and they ended up asking of Ezra was do they have a of to take the medicine? >> Yeah. Meaning they're in and if they take the medicine they could talk a learn better. >> What's the drawback? Why wouldn't why did they have they wanted to know to take the medicine? They were like mixed feelings about it. They saw what it could do but they weren't sure. Do they have to take the medicine? Now granted, you have to know Bezar Newberger and maybe this question is something that could be asked of others and I'm not he was whatever we were sort of sch smoozing. It wasn't like I asked him a shila but you know I was in but before you answer I was in Baltimore the week after Resnberg was nifter for a sima was also the week after Rabbi Hower was nifter right in that area. There was some horrible tragedies in Baltimore and the RV very of Rab Gross in that shul he spoke about Rabzer Nubber as being a almost like a leader and a forward thinker in the world of mental health. >> Yes like he was in that he was open-minded to have conversations and to explore things in like an honest way. However, he was an extreme traditionalist. Like extreme like he didn't have a cell phone. He like wore the same clothes. But even in mental health, he his attitude was very educa. I spoke to him for hours and hours, okay? And he I drove him crazy on many occasions trying to push his thinking or explore why he's not more open. And he he's not he was not quick to be open-minded. And I'm not saying that when it came to mental health, he was in denial or un unwilling to embrace modern mental health initiatives, but like he was not a progressive thinker at all. Anyway, but so he told me a person does not and should not take it because we don't know yet. We don't know we don't know the implications of medications secondaries and other impact it could have and unless you have to take it which is maybe a scenario you were talking about in school you shouldn't jump at it. So that to me that was like so with that in mind I say listen there are times when the school does not work for your child. It's there could be a number of reasons and you have to make the as a parent when you give your child a medicine you're taking aas that's your you are aas if there is ever anas it's the long-term major influence of that decision and it's a big decision and I don't think anyone could feel they have a right to make that decision for parents sure they could say to parents I've said this and I advise others to say this we've done everything we could do and the child can't continue like this But I don't know what to do. If you want to try medicine, fine. If you want to try a different school, fine. If you want to come half day, we'll explore that. But like it's an attitude thing. It's one of the attitude. I'm not saying in practice there's a big napkamina. But I think the attitude is that it's a major decision that parents have to make. Yeah. I think it's funny because every therapist we have on, we've had a bunch of very, you know, of therapists all say medicine is never the answer. It's part of the answer. Right. So it's not like this panacea that you take a medication and it solves everything. The tension in yeshivas is often when you have parents that are we don't medicate right or right we don't medicate and then a school's response that's why and we wrote about this in the magazine the school's response is so then give me something right no school we don't we're not getting kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies >> and honestly a lot of parents are ignorant meaning they have this predisposition against medicine for whatever reason and they're not really open to understanding it or doing the research talking to psychiatrists They're like, "No." And that's frustrating, too. You know, I'm not I've had many conversations. I said to parents like, "You don't understand. This could change your child's life, you know, and I've seen it, and I'm sure you have, too, where medicine really, whether it be for anxiety or ADHD, could really be a gamecher. But in the end of the day, I do respect the fact that it's a critical important decision that a parent has to own like in a serious way. >> But and here's the truth. So you mandate mandate. Who's putting the pill in the kid's mouth? It's the mother in the morning. Right. So like like who you kidding. Right. Right. You know the joke they say the great story. One of the great stories of all time. All of us in the field know this story that Rebei tells the mother Yo's got a he's such a crazy kid. He's he needs ADHD pills tomorrow. So the mother says okay I don't want to do it but I force. So she forces the uncle take the medication. She gives them every day. Three weeks later the baby calls the mother and he says the uncle is a different kid. Different kid. And she's like, "Okay, wow." She calls him Yian. I'm so proud of you. He's like, "For what? You taking your medicine every day." He's like, "No, I don't." Like, "What do you mean no?" "I slip it in my Reby's coffee every morning." [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Ah, one of one of the great very layered deep stories. >> All right. >> All right. Onward we go. >> Okay. The next question is for me to read to you. >> Okay. Dear TLC, I currently have an eighth grader who has a very difficult time getting up on time for minion, but even more so is chronically over an hour late to school on most days. The school where he currently is in has a high school and already mentioned that they will consider not accepting my son to high school if his attendance doesn't improve drastically over the next couple months. How do I handle this situation with my son? >> Yikes. So I think we got a similarish question in the past and I think the mother that in the past said my son at camp goes to wakes up every morning for shakas. Um and my response was your response was I don't think he does. I don't think he does. We just don't tell you. You have to find out why, right? How do I handle a situation with my son? Why can't he wake up in the morning? The first question is, of course, what time is he going to sleep at night? So, the first step is, and it's it sounds so like like eye roll and cliche, but is your kid going to sleep on time? I would imagine most of the time the answer is no. There are kids that don't get up in the morning because they're depressed, they don't want to get out of bed, they don't want to go to school, right? That's category A. Category B is they're really tired. Now, if they're really tired, they got to get more sleep. And it's easier said than done. in a hole in a household if he's the youngest in the family and all his older brothers and sisters are up till 1 in the morning. Yeah, it's challenging. But you got to get him to go to sleep. That's a real thing. If an eighth grader is not in bed by 10:00, by 10:15 and I know I don't want to get I take this back because there are eighth grade kids maybe listen to this and their bedtime is 9 and then 8:30, right? But definitely not past 10 10 like they have to get to bed. Do how do you handle the situation with my son continue the conversation? You're going to say talk to him, right? Go, Rabbi. >> No, talk to a kid. What do you create an eighth grader? They don't know anything. I happen to think sleep is a really hard one because like I've had my kids go to sleep doctors to do studies of their rhythms and all this stuff. I don't know enough about it, but I do know that there is a biological reality. There are kids who just like you said, they can't fall asleep and they their rhythm is different. And like I don't know what to do. It's a really it's hard because if that's the case, think about the guilt that child carries >> when he has this like >> right and certain kids. Yeah. >> No, when they have this physical biological kayak against them and like it's hard. I I don't know. I wish the high school would I don't expect the high school to do this, but I wish we could all like understand that this child is not bad because he has trouble getting up. It doesn't mean that he's not excited about the avenue. Like we're so judgmental against kids who have trouble waking up in the morning because like come on, if you're going skiing, you'd get up and it's like anyone who knows anything about humanity knows that's just not how it is. It's a real challenge for kids, >> right? It's amazing. I'm sure you see this in uso. There are certain kids that are just schleers and they struggle to come to diving and they put on their fill in and they get like this magic potion and it just flips. >> Wait, let's not be judgment until then. meaning it's >> right >> it's so easy to be judgmental about those kind of things especially if you're like an ontime wake up early kind of guy those people love to be judgmental and it's you don't understand the reality of these people so I'm not giving an answer I'm just >> but here's the other hand on the other hand this is not even a high school conversation on the other hand that kid that comes late to school and the shak is 7:40 right and he's showing up at 9:00 and forget filling at home leaving out leaving even leaving out the religious the from of it. He starts his day off. It's like behind the eightball times 10. Everyone else is already finished their math homework that they like know that they quickly did during breakfast and he's still looking for his his >> tell you when I was a rebby in Atlanta. I was a rebby for 10 years in Atlanta, nth grade rebby. There was a tufer we we used to dive in earlier like 7:30 and there was a reason I forgot why we changed it to eight for a week. Maybe it was Nates, I forgot like you know there's Manimm or between Purum and Pesak. Anyway, our attendance went up so high like it was just too early. Like kids were having and especially in places where they have to travel like they could have to get up at 6:37. I mean that's early. That is early. I mean maybe something to consider is that Davney could be a little later for teenagers. I mean I think there's research about this that they don't excel at 7:37 in the morning. I would just add on a practical level, if I was this mother and the high school says if his attendance doesn't improve draft skill in the next couple of months, how do I handle the decision of my son? Bribe him. Meaning you got to get if if this is the misa maybe we'll deal with that in a couple of questions. If this is the misa that your son should be needs to be has to get into then as if Jakobson talks about not every moment is likeentric ignore the yeah let's get this get up in the morning. It's easier [laughter] >> guess that cost a lot more. >> Yeah, the kid maybe will but bribe him. I'm enough of Let's put it this way. As you said, the kid gets up for skiing, right? >> Make an incentive program exciting enough. >> He'll get up. >> Okay. I mean, what I like about that is you're owning the problem with him. You're saying you're not a bad kid. We have to work together. And I'm willing to put >> Right. But I just ju and before we continue, I have a a tom that I know who struggled with shakra. It's just fast just interesting to note and and he finally is in yeshiva where he's happy learning. He doesn't struggle with shackles anymore. >> Well, like we all grew up like there are kofas in my life where things are different and like immaturity and Yeah. what you have to face when you get shot. >> Yeah. >> All right. All right. Next question. >> Hi, I'm very much enjoying your podcast. Uh I'm a young man in my young 30s. I learning still in yeshiva. I am looking towards maybe becoming a mahar which is why I'm listening to you not as a parent. My kids are too young and my oldest is five and not as a rabbi but I'm hopefully happy there. And I'll tell you the truth, listening to you makes me a little bit intimidated because I'm just very, I guess almost in awe, but very impressed by the skill and the talent that goes into it. And I'm wondering, am I cut out for this? I haven't done anything for that. I learn I've been learning for pretty much since I'm married with the last uh five, six years with with seventh, eighth, maybe sixth graders at night. And I think that goes well. So, as a tutor, I think I'm pretty good, but those are not the same skills. Running a classroom, dealing with all different kinds of boys, etc. So, I just was wondering maybe that would be a topic you would talk about. What do you look for in a Rebby? What are the things that make a good Rebby? Um, how to know if it's right for you, etc. Thank you very much. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, thank you for listening and for sharing your thoughts. You sound like a very sincere person. I would say like no Rabbi Sh I could I can't speak for Rabbi Shumpfeld but I can speak for myself. I didn't start out this way at all. I mean you're looking at someone who's been in this for 25 years and reading and doing all sorts of research and read going into sessions and learning from people. It's been a long journey and so don't look at us and be like well I don't know quite as much as Rabbi Shfeld. I shouldn't be in I mean that's not that's like totally not the way to approach it. You remind me of the famous messa. I don't know which gud or which thing but like where they said how can I be a rv? I don't know enough. I'm scared I want to make a mistake. And the r said what? You want a rv? You want to be someone who's going to be a who's not scared that he made a mistake who doesn't think he could be wrong. So it's like I would say the fact that you're open to this and you're recognizing that you have room to grow is a mila to me. And when I look almost every rebby I've ever hired had no experience. You know it might be a Houston thing I don't know >> but yeah almost every rebby. So what do you look for? >> The first thing I look for is someone who gets along with people who's relatable like you know abrias like a a easy person. I think that's important because we're going to deal with so many different types of kids and scenarios and things. So that that's one and then someone who's learning oriented growth oriented who I think could could grow who wants to learn who wants to take it seriously who's willing to put the work into it. >> So interesting because those are all wonderful assets. the number one thing and I've hired some an unbelievable especially if they're listening to this podcast no are beautiful I've had tal especially in in in my camping industry so I have bakim like like this young man or division heads who get married should I go into maybe should I go into what do you think and my answer to them is first of all I will never ever tell someone that yes you should go into because I'm not paying your bills and it is not a lucrative business or position And to put the person has to just know that there's no money in there's very little money in and it's a life it's a different life there's if you're good at it that I think I can't imagine another career paralleling but I I would I would not have the ever to tell someone to go into because of the challenges that it brings financially >> to me the person that should go into and is the person that if you weren't Jewish would you still go into? If the answer is no, then don't go into in other words that I think the number one attribute of a person going to is you have to absolutely love the kids. That's 90%. There's pedagogical skills and of course you have to have classroom management. You go to real Kramer for that, right? For the classroom management. And you'll read enough what's it called? and you'll practice and you'll mess up and you'll learn and you'll read books. The number one attribute is the ability to connect and positively impact kids. You have to want it. That has to be part of you. It's everything. My first year as a rebby, I remember in a in a coffee room and one of the older said he doesn't go to a certain supermarket because his talida are there and he doesn't want to see the money's off. And I would struck me as what these are your tell me them these are yours now like like you have to mamish care about them maybe I'll just to me I had an aha moment my rebby as many of Gian Kramer is my my my rebi >> we should get him on the podcast >> I remember the moment >> we should get him on the podcast yes we should he's unbelievable very of a person I remember the moment I walked into his office in camp and I said I want to be a rebby and this was um 200 6 and we were learning a diff I was giving Shir to 12th graders in camp and it was I can remember one boy with the gumar was gamar and babakama it was actually sonhedrin we learned sonhedrin and it was a hard nuanced gamarra and there was one kid one of the weaker kids in the class we walked around the the baseball field again I don't understand the garra back and forth and I must have explained 10 times >> and by the tenth time he said to me aha and he repeated it back to me >> and he got and it clicked and I got such a high from the fact that he got it. I walked into Kramer's office and said, "Rebi, I think I want to be a Rebi because I don't I can't get that high anywhere else." It's the ability. So, I would say to if you want to teach Tyra, that's wonderful. That's maybe be a RV, maybe be machir, maybe write. Do you want to teach kids? Do you get a high a tremendous deep sea when a second grader an eighth grader 11th grader a fifth grader gets it and it doesn't it could be gamarra rashi tisnayas and it could be davening or it could be it meaning he understands how to behave at recess if that's something that is meaningful to you then call me [laughter] beautiful so I guess we're sort of encouraging this young man to don't give up I think something you said which is a good piece of advice also that I also got from a Resubber Z he helped me try different mixa like I wasn't sure Rob or a counselor or a kira of guy and he said to me try it out he set me up as a reabonist in the summer he encouraged me to try teaching like I would say to this person try it go to the shel do a Mishna class go to the everyone needs subs go to the local school and tell a rebi >> I don't know if subs is the best way for you to see it flam used to be a rebi in YSV has an amazing vart he says there are 10 things also created by Ashes and one of them was the isle of the so he's like well that's not miraculous it's just an isle right and a sub and is [laughter] that an isle there was a sub fork I don't think you go to camp but the answer is you'll >> yeah find your way yeah >> find your way >> and see how you feel I've done different things with subbing where it's less I don't you're right just being thrown into like third grade boys for afternoon. No, but there are ways to try it for an hour to work with the rebby a little till it's more comfortable or ways to make it more >> right. >> Anyway, okay, moving along. Next question. Dear TLC, my kid is happy golucky, meaning a little. I really want to teach him executive function, but I feel it's clipping their carefree wings and we're not celebrating this child for the >> feet. Maybe caffeine. Maybe caffeine also. But yeah, >> I was like, what? Yeah, we're not celebrating this child for the fun personality they are because we're so focused on teaching responsibility and reliability. How could we balance this better? >> It's like a I feel like this is a person who's like maybe an executive functioning coach >> who like is like throwing a softball. Yeah. Promoting. It's obviously it's the opposite, right? It's the absolute opposite. Meaning the happy, go-lucky, exciting kid who loves everything in life but forgets his homework every single day, right? And never has the right material out in the beginning of class is not going to be happy and golucky for that long if he doesn't get his or her get her executive functioning in order. Right? It's not that we're replacing their personality. You're not going to clip their wings. You're going to manicure their wings. It's not going to clip their wings by getting them help of how to remember and come up with tricks, real life skills of how to be a better and more organized student and person, they're going to thrive. If your kid is carefree and she's fun and she's gishmach, she's not going to lose that. We're not talking in you're not pouring cement on her. you're allowing her to thrive because if she's in 11th grade and she's still carefree and safen, she won't be carefree anymore. She'll be miserable because she'd be failing every all her 11 classes that she's taking, including Historia. >> I love I love your We're not clipping them or manicuring them. That's great. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I just want to say like there's a lot of guilt that these kids carry when they're at the flag in because they know the world or this mother the frat possibly will look a scance. It's like really again you forgot and just appreciate that it's just like hard for these kids. It's not natural and like they shouldn't have to carry the guilt. Not to say they shouldn't try to work on it, but we have to find that balance of not making them feel guilty about who they are. And I would also say not to say any child is better or worse, but you can't teach gishmach. It's much harder. It's you can't teach a kid to be have a fun personality. >> What do you mean? Just sing this. It's not be a hard. >> Yeah. So if you know this kid has that and like it's like that that that's a my I would rather you know that and then have to work on the other thing obviously within reason than have a child who's somewhat boring and then very organized. I mean that's a I guess we shouldn't be judgmental like that. It sounds a little uncomfortable, but I'm just saying like c like you are celebrate this kid's mileas which seem very special. Okay, >> I will ask you the next question. I think we go back and forth. I don't want to dominate the airwaves. >> We should have I wonder if they have like like a pie chart. Who speaks more, me or you? >> What do you think? I have no clue. >> Well, I open it and you close it, right? I open and you close. That's kind of our thing. I don't know. I'm the starter or the closer. >> Interesting. Yeah, I'm sure AI could do that somehow. I don't know. It's out of my capacity, but I'm sure there's an AI tool that could do that. >> I don't know. >> All right, to be continued. >> All right, here we go. Dear TLC, how do I get my kids to make good decisions when I'm not around to enforce it, especially when it's something they personally don't agree with? Example, I want my kids to behave in a refined way, not drawing attention to themselves in public. >> We are very careful about this, but my kids are happy, fun kids. Oh, maybe it's the same mother as that's a flag one usually. >> I don't know why you always assume it's the mother. >> Maybe it's a sister. You're right. But my kids are >> good. >> But my kids are happy fun kids. And this usually translates as loud. Oh, okay. So, this parent is their kids their child drives this parent nuts. They're getting to be old enough to go places unaccompanied by a parent. But I picture them out in public without me and I cringe. Oh boy. Oh. >> Oh my. So obviously I have very quiet children. Pipsqueaks. They don't talk. They're perfectly refined like little ducklings. Maybe. So I can't relate to such a question. Maybe maybe the Garfield home is different. So I'll just I'll hang up and listen. >> My kids are writing. It's so embarrassing to take my father places. He always makes so much noise and he talks to everybody. I'm trying to get him to be more quiet, but he's just so out there. Yeah. I don't have I don't have a lot of Rakmanas at all. I think this is >> Yeah, this question is like this question is I don't love the I don't love the own >> but listen yeah this is I mean if you think is forcing your kids to behave in ways that are not natural and don't make sense to them in the hopes that somehow miraculously that sticks well you got the wrong conception of we've talked about this many times Mario and myself that is about preparing children as famous rashy about the word but it's around preparing the groundwork for a life without you that is it's not like how do I be mechanical when I'm not there. No, that is what you are doing. >> No, but a lot of times you'll have parents that have a certain sensitivity, a certain personality. It sounds almost a personality and an upbringing, right? Especially when different parents have different backgrounds. So, and all of a sudden, I'll give you even a small example whether you call your aunt by your first name, right? So, I grew up not calling my aunt by her first names. It was Tanta or aunt always. And I know I have a lot of aunts and a lot of tantas. My wife did not. My wife grew up calling her aunts. I didn't call my mother's friends by their first names. I didn't call my parents' first cousins. It was cousin Monica and cousin Shai. So then when your kids come, so as one of the parent have a certain expectation and the other one doesn't, what happens to your kids? That's a almost like that will probably play out in a lot of scenarios. But when you have parents of different personalities and one of them is quieter and one of them is louder and then and you want your child to have a behave a certain way, you're going to be in for a rude awakening, right? >> Well, that's when the parents are on different page. >> So the question is, so now what? So the question now when these parents are on the same page that's you're adding another rabbi. So now what do you do? They want this. They're nervous that their ninth grade daughter, nth grade son who's now going away for Shabas on their own and going away is going to the Keser shame type of this Mishbah that they work so hard to give over and to work on is going to be ruined. And this and therefore let's even we're going to go this shame is something that is valuable for this child. This child is going to doesn't realize the negative impact that it's having on him and her when he walks around that he doesn't clean up at the table. the kid is going to act like a wild man, right? Or the father. We don't know for sure. She's just saying, and you'd be surprised how often children reflect the values of their parents when they're not around you. If you do it right and you play your cards without a lot of I have a feeling this parent might not be doing this, but if you do it without a lot of pressure and you ex, you know, sort of model the right behavior, your kids will naturally emulate that if it makes sense and fits. That's the sort of the natural way, you know, that. So you know there's that but in the end of the day that is so you're asking how do you kids know how to behave in public? Okay so you got to problem solve. Why are they getting excited? What do they need? Maybe they're all asking to order at the same time. I'm picturing the restaurant scene. So like okay so work with them on it in a non-aggressive. Don't tell them you behave when we're in a restaurant. You say okay well with your when you're with friends how do you order like a mench? You're reminding me and then see if you have a comment on this before we move on. TA in Baltimore, Rabbi Yak Schwarz, has a beautiful unhuga with bar mitzvah because people worry these boys go to bar mitzvah the seventh grade and whatever happens it happens. So they had this great idea. They make a bar mitzvah in school a practice mitzvah like a practice band >> and they show the kids how to sit down and how to dance. Yeah. And they do the whole thing like how do you behave and they show them how you behave at a bar mitzvah and then that's the standards that they yeah they have them find a seat I don't know be quiet during the speeches all the different things what if you need this what how do you dance like a mench it's a beautiful concept a lot of cities have gotten rid of bermits because they don't want kids going because they can't like in Lakewood they don't even go to bermits but in cities like Baltimore where they still at least in TA they still go to bar mitz >> we still go >> yeah we still have bar mitzvah in the west side >> I thought That's a good I think that's a good muscle for this. Like how do you know your kids are going to behave a bar mitzvah? You teach them how to behave at a bar mitzvah. You don't force them. You don't scream at them. You don't merch them to death at bar mitzvah until they want to get rid of you. But you treat them like a mench and you show them. >> Just to your point, it's not a one-time conversation. It's years, right? It's years. It's Friday night. It's Friday night on the couch. It's at night after they finish their homework. It's after the bath. It's years of talking, of modeling, uh, pointing out things that are important to you, not important to you, and your kids will have their flavor. And there are certain things that your kids, my father did not let us chew gum on Shabas. It's not Shabas addict to chew gum, right? So, and I am an avid gum chewer, but like to me, it was almost, you know, you do for Shabas, you get a treat. We get gum on Shabas, right? So is it in other words my point is I hope this not comes across as very to my father which now I think about it I might I wonder that my father wrote this email but it was it my point is that everyone in their next dar will have a certain their own flavor and their own way and them being mechanic their kids and al shabas was special to my father and therefore no gum shabas is special to me and therefore gum right it's a constant massaging that happens throughout your years to have kids that and it keeps going but it's not something that just well I don't like the way they behave in public what should I do now the answer is you should keep being a parent >> absolutely >> okay last question I will ask you dear TLC how do we as parents try to decide on which high school is the best fit if for the kid themselves the overwhelming factors they care about is which friends go to which school and how I will fit into those friends is that a legitimate thing to weigh so heavily or do we look at other things. >> So the question is how important it is for kids friends or >> I think she's ask that she has is that this that my child comes up with ideas that are important to him that I don't really think are important >> is should I give that the same weight that my kid gives him and what should I give the weight >> so so high school placement is obvious is a big project of mine in general in the more modern orthodox high schools they have open houses but not only do they have open houses they have open houses just for kids and they'll throw paraphernalia at them and swag and food and games in which they're literally trying to recruit the child based on things that are nuts, based on the fact that there's good swag and that you come to open house and we hired some magician and a mentalist. Like literally that extreme. It has to do with the fact that in different segments of societies, eighth graders play more of a role of deciding what high school they go to than other areas. I think I shared this story once and that is a parent told me they wanted to send their son to certain high school. I said, why? Because they have a soccer team and he's really good at soccer. And I said to her, Mrs. I'm going to be harsh, but I you're awesome. Your kids are awesome. So, this is just a zug. Don't take it so personally, but your son is not making major league soccer. He's not going to be his pronouns in life. And so therefore, choosing a high school based on the soccer team is like choosing a hospital for someone based on the food. It's it's so should of course athletics are important. We have sports are great and trips are great. You have to prioritize the prioritize for your son is where is he going to which rabbane will be the best fit for him? Which school's schedule intensity not intense dorm not dorm? How many nights nights a week are there? What's with the English program? Certain parents have placed a value in that that's in that more than others. Is there a real pressure in the school? Is there a resource room in the ma? Many of them don't have. What happens? Is there a rebby that's going to be there for him? So all of that are real Shilas. I tell the eighth graders every year. I walk in I'm like, "Guys, ready to embrace awkward? Here we go. I do this every year. I said there's 15 of you guys 15 of you and you're applying to high school and you're going to say I only want to go to high school. my three friends are going to. And I said, "Guys, here's the awkwardness. Your best friends are not your best friends from elementary school." Oh, I'm sorry. We do it. We have it. We go. We I we I said, "Your best friends in life will be your best friends from Missa, maybe camp, and where you live." And I said, "I'm not telling you guys not to be great friends." And some of you, you'll grow up together, so you'll stay best friends no matter where you go. But you can't allow that to decide what high school you go to where your three friends are. You'll make new friends in three minutes and they'll be your friends for life. And I we joke about it just to pop the balloon, right? That's what we do to discuss the elephant in the room. But it's something that you can't the idea of his three friends are going. Now I'm not saying the kid that hasn't social anxiety and needs one friend. He won't go to a not gonna send a kid to Cincinnati without any friends. I'm not talking about the extreme case. I'm talking right and Cincinnati is a great place but but in general of like is it a good that's there? It's a good yeshiva with a great reputation. He'll make friends in 10 minutes. Why? Because he's a good ball player or because he's good in learning or because he's funny or because 30 other different reasons like like no his friends now don't allow your and I hope if you have a this is what it's about. They have a strong enough parent child relationship. Then the eighth grade child should appreciate my parents know me better than anyone. They know this is I don't know this issue. I'm 13. It has to be. And sometimes the mistake we make is we empower kids so much. We let them choose what high school you're going to. It's like seriously your kid has to go get his he's an ingrown toenail. Would you let him choose the the what what doctor he's going to? The parents should be driving this decision almost entirely. with the healthiness of understanding what their child needs. >> Do your eighth graders understand when you say that? Like, does that resonate about their friends? >> Yeah, they do. Well, because I say to them, I say, "Guys, I have that. I have friends in elementary school. They are my best friends." And I'm saying some of you I say some of you will stay friends the rest of your life. Even if you don't go to the same high school, you live in each other's building. You go to each other's camps. Either you'll stay friends or you won't. And you'll make no one. Yeah, it's it is a challenge to go to yeshiva alone >> but and that's and sometimes it's the wrong place >> if it's there's no social setting for him in that environment >> but don't give it don't give fuel to something oxygen to something that is just a small very small potato >> okay wonderful is I hope everyone enjoyed as much as we did this pot pirie if you will of a lot of different questions that were written in and some feedback from the beginning and other thoughts and We have some exciting guests, you know, Mr. Shim coming in the next couple of weeks. It's been a a season that and I think we I I don't think I'm saying anything so private was saying we strike from this. We grow as professionally so much from the questions from being challenged from the back and forth even from each other a little bit. But it's a pleasure as always. >> Let's remind our listeners to continue sending us such great feedback. You could call in. We really appreciate those. The number is 443686-9339. Again, 4443. I guess that's a Baltimore number. Wow. 443686-9339. Or you could send your email to the learning curve.com. All right. All the best, Roari.