S4 E2: Let's Talk Teen Perspective (Feat. Camp Aish Staff)

I put down $10,000 that Rebel Yair is against therapists. You might have been the best in in in the small pond and now you're in a bigger pond and you're not the best. Okay? Okay. >> Welcome to the Learning Curve where there's no such thing as a bad halakhic question. >> Let's face your biggest parenting challenges one conversation [music] at a time. >> I'm Rabbi Yerachmiel Garfield, Menahel of Yeshiva Tiferes Tzvi of Houston. >> I'm Rabbi Ari Schonfeld, Menahel at Yeshiva Ketana of Manhattan, [music] Rosh Mesivta Bais Yisrael of Manhattan, and director of Camp Ache. >> And this is the Learning Curve podcast. >> Bracha u'Matzlacha and welcome back to another episode of season 4 of the Learning Curve. Um we're back in the saddle. All it takes is one and all the feedback, positive, constructive criticism, people that agree, disagree, um >> We definitely got more. Definitely got more from you know, I feel like a lot more interest in the last discussion about camp I think there were two people either you loved it you loved the concept of bringing more camp in Yeshiva or you hated it. Like I got a lot of that. >> Yes. Yes. I I want to share a couple of of of you know, I guess consistent themes. Um a couple of people were not [clears throat] not weary or leery, but you know, I did say the scooter shaila. I prefaced it a hundred times by I'm not a rav. It's not I'm not a paskening halacha. I'm not paskening halacha. And then and then we discussed the scooter shaila. I've had to deal with it. We were discussing assuming that you dealt with halakhic part from a purely you know, Shabbos issue. I wanted to just speak that out. Obviously, the LOR, the local Orthodox rabbi comes first. Um yeah, and I think in terms of the camp, probably fell along um the lines were you a camp guy? You know, whether that's something that resonated with you. Baruch Hashem, we're here as we always say not to finish the conversation but to continue the conversation. >> Yeah, the business about like if you were a camp guy, I still definitely believe there are there are people and kids who like are camp kids and they love it. And it's like and but but like I asked you guys this during the conversation like are there certain kids who do better and that you like more and are more camp oriented? And the thing is no, all kids like really benefit from camp. I'm not saying that that's not true but there are definitely kids who you know, get a lot more out of it. Let's put it that way. You know? >> Yeah. And um it was an episode that that was exciting again. Reb Dovid Ecker you know, it actually just stands for himself, his pedigree and his >> to camp for four years. I'm not like anti-camp. >> You went to camp for four years. You're a camp N'ar An Boy, is that what you are? >> No, it was a camp that's it's not no longer around. It was like uh it's called Yedeid. And then Chaverim which was like a continuation of that and that closed. And now Chaverim is totally different. But I mean it was a long time ago, wasn't today's a different world in terms of the glitz and glamour. Let's just say Yaakov Shwekey did not come to camp Yedeid in 1988. >> He wasn't your counselor. >> But I'm just saying like you know, I did experience camp. I also went to other camps. I I appreciate camp. I'm not anti-camp. I just don't know that I am as enthusiastic as you are. But it's not like I'm anti-camp. I I'm pro. You know, don't misunderstand that. >> Oh, Baruch Hashem, thank you for clarifying. >> Yeah. >> So so today's episode is actually something that we've been dabbling about for a couple of years. Um and it's pretty cool. And that is it's a pre-recorded episode. It took place a few months ago. Um [snorts] so I just want to set [clears throat] it up. Um just to to remind you regarding what happened. And that is I was in camp this summer. And this is not a camp episode. Don't think this is part two. But I was in camp a few months ago. And we've been always dabbling, always, in let's talk to the bathroom. Right, we talked so much to parents and come to him. Let's let's hear from them. On some issues, on how they view things. Sometimes it's important to talk to the kids themselves. So it's hard being a and when you're going to get a group of kids together, a group of together in a room, serious guys to have serious conversation. So I'm fortunate enough to have a camp camp age. Um and this is not [clears throat] a plug for Asia. This is a little tricky because registration opens in a few days. This is but but this is for staff. But anyways, um So we put together as almost like a quasi night activity around 40 to 50 staff members in camp. You were not able to attend, but you were on Zoom in a big huge projector in the dining room in camp. And we had a conversation with the staff members of camp age. Um and it was >> your first year base managers if I remember? >> These are guys coming out of 12th grade through coming back from the mirror and pragers. >> Okay. Um 18 to 22. >> 18 to 22. 18 to 22 is the age, you know, base managers guys. And it's about their experience. I did something very cool. Now if any of my staff is listening, just to Now I Now I could finally say at the end of this interview, I spoke about the value of Torah and Avodah. And everyone agrees to there is an incredible value in Torah and Avodah. I did that because the next night we broke our color war and the team names were Torah and Avodah. So this was just my own little [clears throat] way of knowing who what No one knew what I wanted, you know, just to That was me. >> I don't want to No no you know, no trouble, but if Torah didn't win in camp age, that's going to hurt your marketing. >> And that we'll find Listen, this happened before color. I'm not telling you who I So anyways, that's what this was. This was a a recording of of an audience. And if you're watching it, you could see some of the bachurim we talked to see most of them. And so, they've been waiting, my staff has been waiting for this episode. And this is the bachurim. We talked to the bachurim. So, um Yes, without further ado, let's go back. >> Bring them on. >> Bring them on. Here we go. Welcome to a very special edition and episode of The Learning Curve. Rabbi Garfield, we have spoken throughout our first three seasons where you have kibitzed with me a little bit about camp. I've always chided you and begged you to come visit Camp Eish. And so, what's unique about this um podcast, this episode, is that although you are in Houston, um I am currently in Woodbourne, New York. And maybe for the for the one time tonight, we'll introduce with a round of applause the staff and the campers here at Camp Eish. Woo! And yes. >> It's just so awesome to be with you guys. I really almost came. I wish I would have, but I just my schedule didn't allow for it this time. Maybe next summer, but I must say that I've been following this summer's Eish stuff more than usual through your the things you send out. And it looks like every day is like another adventure. So, either you're really, really good at advertising or it's an awesome camp. Probably both. >> And there's no reason that both can't be true. >> [laughter] >> But, but as much as obviously as as our listeners and our those that watch us know that I'm a menahel during the year and director of Camp Eish in the summer, I think my staff is is very chashuv, but I do think that they represent really a wide range of yeshivas throughout America. We have discussed so often, let's do this on an off Shabbos. Let's do this bein hazmanim. How do we get to talk to bachurim? So often, we're talking to parents, we're talking to mechanchim about inyonei chinuch. Why don't we talk to the bachurim themselves? Maybe the future mechanchim of klal Yisrael, but even more so, things that are on their mind. You know, we take the we talk to therapists, we talk to our rabbeim, we talk to menahalim, we talk to rabbonim, we talk to parents. Let's talk to the bochurim. Um and so really this could have been any camp. I'm lucky enough and fortunate enough to have, you know, my camp be the platform for this. So um >> So what age are these guys generally that we're going to be talking to? >> So because we're we're a bein hazmanim camp, these are all bein hazmanim guys, post high school. This is 12th grade. >> Okay. >> Leaving 12th, leaving 12th grade through leaving fourth year bein hazmanim. That's the range. From yeshivas really around the country. In Eretz Yisrael and the you know all around. I would say it's like this, I think they represent our viewership in terms of the range of yeshivas that they're from. They'll say their first names, I guess when they speak and ask their questions in case their rosh yeshivas are listening or in case they're worried about shidduchim. So I think the way we did it is we have three questions from them, then we're going to ask some questions to the crowd and those that are brave enough to answer will uh will raise their hand, we'll take it from there. >> Okay, wonderful. Let's do it. >> So we're going to go first to one of our wonderful counselors. Um we'll keep the round of applause for later. This question is going to be asked by Avi Wolman. I'm going to give Avi the microphone to ask the first question. >> Why is it that sometimes there are kids who are best in their class in elementary or middle middle school when they get to mesivta they're no shiychus and how can a child be set up to succeed throughout his years in yeshiva and have this issue circumvented? >> Great question. Sholom Mordechai, can I ask Avi a follow-up just to understand the question better? And I can watch the guy run back and forth with the microphone. So Avi, can you think like tell me more about that? Like what do you mean? Like guys in I I don't know exactly what you're referring to so I don't understand it better. You mean guys in elementary school are getting like hundreds and then they come to yeshiva and they're getting like 70s? >> I don't know if it's a grade thing like grades on bechinas but more like someone that could even be good at someone that could finish shas mishnayos for his bar mitzvah, someone that learns very well in the classroom in elementary school but when it comes to Mesivta, it's much harder to be a a masmid or to be or to be a big lamdan or someone at the top of the shiur. So, what is it that makes someone a good elementary child and not a good Yeshiva bachur? >> Yeah, and last question is like you've seen this. You're saying like you've seen this with you like this is based on your own experience, not you personally. >> It's a very extreme two sides of it, but some It's not necessarily Not always does it carry over directly. >> Okay. All right, good question. Excellent. Reb Aryeh Schonfeld, since I did the follow-ups, why don't you start that one with your thoughts? >> So, I think one of the biggest differences between elementary school and Mesivta, and I'm as always we speak generally speaking. I think that in elementary school there is so much of our system that is incentive-based. And I don't mean incentives in terms of necessarily candy, which it is in the younger grades, but it's report cards and it's grades, and it's extra recess, and it's getting into high school, and it's working for a seam at a bar mitzvah. There's goals, but not only are there goals, there's extreme results and incentives. You get to Mesivta and often the top kid in his elementary school goes to a top Yeshiva and all of a sudden you're not the top anymore, which is challenge number one. But challenge number two is in the majority of mainstream Charedi Mesivtas all of the incentives are yanked out of the curriculum. And it's just Gemara, Rashi, Tosfos, Rashba, Reb Chaim Eiger, Reb Baruch Ber, it's just learning. And so that kid that was incentivized and he was inspired when he was in seventh and eighth grade, all of those I don't want you I don't know immature, but elementary level outside reasons that he was learning, they're gone. And then he wakes up and he's December time and it's hard and it's a big farher coming up and at best his rebbe's going to tell him nice. Right now, if he does well, he has to dig a lot deeper to learn to find that Lashon inner Sefer that he didn't need in elementary school. >> Wow, yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying in terms of the extrinsic motivation is the fancy sprach that we use versus intrinsic. And like there as you get older the the higher you go, you have less and less and less. Like even the idea of grades. Like in base matters there are no grades, you know. So even that in high school you're like in a transition, but for sure. But you know, there's something about the question. I don't know if Avi meant this per se, but there's something about the question that like triggered me a little bit in saying that who are the best kids in the class. You know, like best. Is that a value? Do we want like there's only going to be top 10% of the best kid. I don't know how what percentage 20 top 20%. So you might not be the best. All right. You know, be the best you can be. You know, it's true. You You You went from an elementary school where the playing field was more diverse. And it might have been you might have been the best in in in the small pond. And now you're in a bigger pond and you're not the best. Okay. Okay, you know, come to grips. That's not the goal. Your goal isn't to be the best. Your goal is to be your best. So I don't think Avi Dafka meant that. I just you know, I just want to point that out that like we should be okay with that, you know. >> I want to add a story. I went to say something. I heard this. I went to say something. I went to the Stiper. And he complained or he went there and how come he said, "I remember growing up all the kids as Avi mentioned, you know, the same and they were the best the best the Metsuyan in elementary school." And he speak I think he was speaking specifically about the boys that finished and were the the pure winners and all the pure winners. And he said he watches 50 years later they're not the winners. They're not the men. What happened to them? How come they didn't stay? >> Mhm. >> And the Stiper said to him, "No, what do you think?" So I went to say something. I think that maybe because they were bored. They weren't We didn't motivate them enough. They They were so good at learning. They didn't have anyone to motivate them. And the stapler said nishmas. The stapler said a very sharp line. He said that they get all these awards and all these ceremonies the bar mitzvahs we prance you know them around the streets. This winner that winner this award that award they become by the guy ever. And by the guy ever can't stake. So you know sometimes you have the kid in elementary school who who has a little bit of a false self you know sense of self that can negatively impact him when he gets to missive does well. >> Well that's a that's a heavy duty story. That's very serious. Yeah. >> Strong story. >> excellent. That was an excellent question. Yeshiva guy. >> All right. We're going to go to the next question is from one of our waiters here in camp. That's how that's how we are as a camp that even our waiters are harsh. I don't even maybe in all camps it's like this. Also Mayor Kaplan just said your last name so now everyone knows who you are Mayor. We could we could edit if your father is embarrassed. He won't be he knows you. >> Hello Rabbi Garfield. >> Shalom aleichem. >> Aleichem shalom. Um something past like 50 years ago um there's no such thing as a therapist. A therapist is a relatively new invention. And I want to know the previous generations the fact that there was no therapist was it because that the generation had no need for a therapist or is it that they just ignored it? And if so if the reason is that the past generations just ignored it it seems like they got by fine. Why doesn't this generation just ignore it? And maybe the problem will solve itself on its own. >> Great question. I missed Kaplan's first name again. What was his first name? >> Mayor. >> All right. That was a great question. Should we ask Mayor what he thinks? Is Mayor suggesting that we should just ignore it? >> No I'm not suggesting that we should just ignore it. >> Okay. Just curious. Maybe maybe that that's a fair you know that would be a fair question. Well you know Rabbi if I could jump in and start off you know I would say due to my quick research while I stalled by asking Mayor that follow up question >> [laughter] >> the life expectancy in 1925 was 58 years, 58 and a half years in the United States. Today, it's 80 years. So, you could say, well, you know, did they not have penicillin? You know, they didn't. They didn't. They had a lot of diseases. They didn't have the screening for cancer. They smoked. They They even thought smoking was healthy. We know about that camp. We're not getting into that. Oh, that Yeshiva. >> Borgus Borgus 10 Borgus 10 in our camp, we don't have that issue. So, you can get a >> Borgus 10 Borgus I'm talking about down the hall down the block. Anyway, but um So, so I think just because it didn't exist and like you from a perspective of someone today like they lived, it didn't mean that their issues were addressed, you know? I think we could all see that with the medical that uh you know, people were dying. So, you know, you think marriages were happier before the advent of uh marriage counselors, you know, therapists? You know, I I just think in the general as a world, certainly in the United States of America, we are blessed to live in a in a environment that really is able to address some of the finest aspects of our life, which include, by the way, Shabbos clocks. What's the latest gimmick? I don't even know. I live in Houston. It takes a while for us to get here. Like those Shabbos lamps, that's already like 10 years old. What's the latest stick? You know, but whatever. Like they didn't have that then. But I mean like all these you know, scientific based ways of keeping halakha. So, is that an uh >> But but if I could if I could paraphrase mayor, is I think he's quoting probably some of our rebbeim and some of our parents that are like, "What a weak generation. You have to go to a therapist for everything. We We We struggled and we got through. When we when a kid made fun of us we were strong." That That I think is the is the >> But we might not have been as happy. We might not have actualized, which basically means be the best person we could be. Listen, I just came back, as you know, from a wonderful trip in Eretz Yisrael. Okay? And there are things that they have in Eretz Yisrael. I ate a meal Friday night in a very poor area. They had challah, a little fish, soup, the zhou. That was the whole meal. You know, and it was great. We had a great time, and it was lovely to spend time with that other family, and in the moment I didn't even notice it. But, there's different standards of living. So, you'd say that's better? I think that, you know, we're blessed to live in a world where we have opportunities to explore things that you can't when you don't have the knowledge or funding. And and we're blessed that we have that. That's my opinion. >> I I two points, a funny story, but first the point. Every generation has advancements. And and to say that the generation before wasn't as sophisticated or as stark or as good as us because we have things that they don't is silly, right? Obviously, technology is better, and there are miles and miles to that. Cars, air conditioning, all of these things. >> Yeah. >> We have We have just access. So, to me, mental health and medicine is just a tool that we have access. Some of the access is of course abused. Um but, we have access. I was sitting at a Shabbos table a couple of years ago, and some person was screaming at me how horrible therapists are. And he was quoting an Adam Godol, I'm not going to say who, no longer living, that held that therapists are all fake and they're horrible. And I told him I said, "Well, if the Adam Godol held that way, I said it's not accepted by by 90% of by everyone. No one holds it. You don't quote a therapist." And he turns to me and he says to me, I this is my sister Hoya. He says, "Reb Elimelech Twersky's against therapists." I said, "I can't believe that. I learned in Fallsburg. It's impossible." And he says to me, "I'll put down $10,000." This is on Shabbos. So, maybe Sorry, I missed one. I'll put down $10,000 that Reb Elimelech is against therapists. So, I don't know if we shook on it. I I mean, it was the middle of Kugel, but I was like, "Wow, dude, deal." Fine. We finished the the Kiddush. I go to a pseudo where I was that Shabbos, and I want to hear the crazy story. A guy in shul says to me tonight, "That not only is is therapy Reb Leib Bears against therapists. Guy raised his hand at the table and he says, "I went to Reb Leib Bear last week. And I was having issues in my life and I said, 'What should I do?' and he said, 'Find a therapist.'" Last week. And I said to Reb Leib Bear, this person said, "A Yiddish therapist?" And Reb Leib Bear said, "No, a good therapist." So, I went back I went back to Shavous Mincha and I said, "It's a good thing they can't make Kinyanim on Shabbos." And you know, maybe I'll smack the like Kanye that, but So, the notion of not getting help when you need help is is silly talk. The the conversation that we have is, have we become a generation that almost enjoys being the victim and enjoys not accepting achrayus for their actions because either my therapist said, "Or I'll just run to my therapist and he'll validate me and he'll tell me why my feelings are really you know, there's really two there's my truth and your truth." That is the the the the concern that needs real people like that. >> In the places I've lived no one goes to therapy for fun. No one has money to burn. Like, who's going to therapy for fun? I think people go because they're in suffering, they're hurting, they need direction, and they help them. So, you're right. In Miami, people who are going who don't really need it and they just go for fun. I don't know if it's worse than, you know, going to a shawarma store or whatever else you're going to do. Coming back to Maritz Israel, that is the example that came to mind. But, you know, >> No, I think overall I will tell you that I have seen I don't see people going to therapy for fun. But, what I do see is the culture that the therapists have created through parents through, you know, teachers is a culture where kids today do not I'm I'm I'm I'm being unfairly judgmental. Do not accept consequences and responsibility for their actions. They will quickly pivot to being victim to being misunderstood. >> I I hear All I could say is I have not seen that at all, not once. >> Really? >> Really. So, we could you know, we'll have to leave it to our wonderful listeners to opine, perhaps even to write in to the magazine. >> I'm going to ask the bochurim to raise their hands. Has therapy created a culture where kids and bochurim have a harder time accepting straight-on achrayus and consequences for making a mistake, for working on themselves, for yiras shamayim, for yiras >> What's that overdoing, Rabbi Shmuel Felder? >> [laughter] >> Because of the fact because of victimhood and because of this invalidation. >> People go to therapy because they're suffering and they can't get out of bed and they're whatever's going on and they need help. No one's going to avoid I don't >> Raise your hand if you Okay, wait, wait, wait. I'm going to go straight. Raise your hand if you agree with my concern. I see more than I see 60% raise their hands. 60%. >> Okay. >> That's all. >> I haven't seen it. How can I >> We're not going to follow up cuz we have to go to the next question. We have one more question from them and then we're going to ask questions to the audience and if someone has something they can raise their hand. So, we're going to go to the next person. The last person asking is Ephraim Wolf. >> We hear stories about gedolim who did chesed at the expense of learning or other chiyuvim. For example, Rabbi Akiva Eiger famously spent many hours a day doing bikur cholim. Rav Zalman Epstein once spent Yom Kippur visiting an almanah. How should a bochur understand this concept and how should he how should he prioritize when faced with this conflict? Should the chesed opportunity infringe on a seder? >> I have some strong feelings. Maybe you should go first, Rabbi Shmuel Felder. >> I don't want you to get a chance to think about it. I want No, I'm >> It's too late. The deed's been done. I I'm ready to fire. But go ahead. >> You want me to go first? >> It's up to you. I I you know, it's It's a wonderful question. It's an important question. >> It's It's one of the most It's a very, very hard question to discuss. It's also >> I don't think it's hard to discuss. think it's pashut, but it's an important question. >> So, I want to share an amazing story that happened on a Mishpacha Zoom right before the summer. And that is the discussion was, how do you get good counselors first half if your yeshivas all have this month, right? So, I was laughing. I don't have camp first half, so I was able to sit the question out. And most it was a meeting of camp directors. And all the camp directors agreed and admitted it's a struggle. Because the battei midrashim are open, it's during this month, so you can't get good counselors. So, what are you supposed to do? There was a chassidishe director, camp director, Camp Shalem. And he did he looked at us like we were mamash aliens. He said, "I don't understand. Why can't you get good counselors?" He said, "By us chassidim, the bochur goes over to the rebbe and he says, 'I think it's better for my ruchniyus, so I think it's better I you know I I I I I think I'll be a great counselor.' And if the rebbe talks to the bochur and he decides that's what's good for him, he goes." Good bochurim, top bochurim. He's like, "We have yeshiva and bochurim go." And in the Litvish world, that's unheard of. It's unheard of. Yeah, you can leave it a zman a day early, two days early. I'll just say it's ironic that Efraim Wolf was the one that asked the question, and I'll leave it at that. Um he did not leave the zman early, um and therefore he was not a counselor in camp this year. And he's one of the best counselors that we have, and he was not able to be the counselor. Um But to me, this speaks to this nekudah, and that is And and and I'm going to finish my sentence and you're going to have and you'll and you'll take it from there. In the oilam ha yeshivas, in the Litvishe yeshivishe velt today, there isn't a currency that is promoted outside of Torah that has I will say this way, that has any weight when it's put up against Torah. Of course, gmilus chassadim and and is is incredible. But whenever you touch a seder, a zman, a gemara, there is no such thing as having a conversation as another mitzvah that is nidcha, that is doche talmud Torah. I know and you can I'm not speaking my >> Are you saying that's a good thing or you're saying that's a bad thing? >> I'm not I'm not opining. I'm just commenting and observing. >> a good thing? >> I'm observing. I'm not opining. >> yourself don't know if that's a good or a bad thing. >> I am observing. I am stating what is I think the hashkafa of mainstream um yeshivaish and not super yeshivaish, any yeshivas. It's nothing but about they speak about chessed in their shmoozin. This is not like mitzvos are incredibly important. But the mussak of going to a nursing home, the mussak of the idea of taking off from yeshiva by a hurricane to clean up basements is non-existent in the yeshiva world. It's not our achrayus our achrayus is to work hard. >> if it's a good thing or a bad thing. >> I have not said my position. I think these are all >> Please. This is the chance. We come we're paying big dollars to come and hear your position, Rabbi Schondorf. >> So I'm going to allow I'm going to you know what I'm going to do I'm going to allow you to continue and then I'll speak after you. >> What I would say is like this, I have had a tremendous fortune in my life to be around some very special chashuva gedolei Yisrael and one of them uh our family has been had a zchus to be very close to was Reb Avraham Shmuelivitz zt"l. Reb Chaim Shmuelivitz's son was a shiva in the Mir, he passed away he was nifter about 2 years ago, a year ago. Actually one year ago or so. And my son uh Yaakov became like a talmid muvhak of his and I became very close to him through that and his family. And I could tell you this and I believe I didn't meet Reb Chaim Shmuelivitz or Reb Boruch Shmuelivitz, the other brothers that >> I did. >> Okay, I didn't know them but I knew Reb Avraham quite well. The man was full of chessed. Meaning he was a masmid atzum, he learned all the time. He learned literally hours and hours and was involved in Torah but if he heard someone say that chessed or being a you know, helping another Yid uh was not like the core I like I can't even imagine him thinking that, you know? So it could be that there's a sense of an aberration or or an error among some that misunderstand that. But the Gedolei Yisrael that that I've had the opportunity to see up close, I also grew up in Philadelphia with the Kaminetsky's and and others. Like the ones that I've seen up close, chesed is at the core. Now that doesn't mean like take off this mind and go clean up for a hurricane. I don't know about that. But if you're walking down the street and someone needs your help and you're going to seder, like a mitzvah be about the other, you do it. And if someone needs something, you don't say No, no, no. No, you help them. And there should be a chos of chein and chesed in everything a person does. It should be their identity. Now that doesn't mean that if you're a masmid and like uh the great uh uh Wolf What was his name? Zachariah? I forgot his >> Ephraim. >> Ephraim. Like what Ephraim Wolf did. I'm not saying Kol HaKavod, he should stay and learn. It's wonderful. He He deserves that that round of applause 100%. But there we go. Another round of applause for him. But But uh But if I'm sure that same person, if he was on his way to seder and the kid needed help crossing the street, he would stop and help the kid across the street. And that's That is what it means to be derech eretz. Your Torah has to be chesedic. I feel very strongly about it. I don't I don't think there's any question. I mean, you could get into like I don't think you should go to Africa and like give out malaria shots, you know, like you you you you you have to learn. But you should be an ish chesed. That should be your identity. >> But But you're avoiding the question because the what you're saying about Garfield is not >> Look who's Look who's avoiding the question. Interesting that you should say that. Yeah, go ahead. Tell me about how I'm avoiding the question. >> What you're What you're quoting What you're saying over and and and and I discussed with Lena Basha for 5 years who also is a masmid. Is it Is it >> Yes. >> I have a picture in my office. Two pictures of Basha in here. He's the kindest person you'll meet. I have I have two pictures in my office of Basha. One picture on the wall of Basha and the other is a small picture of Basha stopping off at an almana um just to say good morning like he does every morning. So that it's But But that's not the question. The question is the question is not is Hesed important. Of course and the all is Hesed. The question is and the observation is that Yeshivas and I'll use the hurricane as a perfect example. If you went to a Yeshiva or a more modern high school and there was a hurricane nearby in the neighborhood, they would close down for Seder and they would go clean up the basements. And if you went to any Yeshiva if anyone thinks I'm wrong in my in my in my statement, raise your hand. In any Yeshiva, they would not close down the base they would not close down for Seder. You think they would? I think would send people to help. I think would send. I think they would. I think send they they go they they have things outside of they go to the right they'll travel to the that's that's outside of I don't think that Yeshivas would ever think of doing anything that touches or tell a to do anything that touches Yeshiva at if it comes at any at the expense of of learning. The story of that said was the story they said that he missed in Yom Kippur in I had this Yom Kippur was was like like a and yet he walked into an hour before was ready there they already he had a conversation with a conversation with a conversation yes pointed to the took out of wallet and left and disappeared and didn't see his family Yom Kippur and the story was Yom Kippur they found out that knew this woman from Europe and this woman was an with a struggling child who was sick and she called up he was the only one in the world Yom Kippur I'm having a nervous breakdown I need someone to watch my kids. He was the only person who could watch her kids he was the only person who could watch her kids he took the bus to and he spent the entire Yom Kippur babysitting her child. >> Wow. >> And he missed feel of it silver, he missed feeling Yeshiva. Um, that's the story of Reb Zelik. That that they that they said over Reb Zelik's Levaya. I think that Yeshivas don't consider anything taking the place of Sidra Yeshiva. And and just to end and then we'll go on to asking the Bachrum questions. Where this manifest to me personally is camp. Now, we gave a round of applause to Ephraim Wolf and I I know he's getting a lot of airtime and by now he's back in Eretz Yisrael sitting and learning. This I I'm going to speak to this point Nikuda on the button cuz I think it it it overlaps to to Chesed and to and other things and that is leaving this month two days early to be a counselor in the camp. I think it's a similar idea. I think it's my Inyan L'Inyan. And that is is it Chashuv to work on your Koach HaNefesh to be a Mashpia, to be a Matev and you know, the stories that happened this summer not just in my camp and every camp around the mountains, the amount that counselors Shteig in Ruchnius from reffing games, from doing curfew, from doing wake up, um, is immeasurable, but it means for some of them leaving this month two, three days early and in certain Yeshivas they won't let and they'll say go on seed or learn Ben HaZmanim in your bungalow colony three storm because we have Seder. Now, I'm not talking about the Yeshivas that say it's a light plug and I have a Tsnius Yeshiva I'm afraid I'm going to I'm not it's image. I'm talking Yeshivas I think most of them say we believe it. And that as important as other things are like being a counselor, like being a Mashpia, like being a role model, Yeshiva comes first. I think that's the question. >> Reb Avraham would say that. >> Exactly. >> Reb Avraham would not let you out of Seder. >> He would not let you out of the >> No way. >> Exactly. And that's the question. The question is not is Chesed important? >> Duh. >> Mishnah Avos, Torah, Avodah, Gemilus Chassadim. Everyone knows that. But it's is there a place for Gemilus Chassadim at the expense of Limud HaTorah? >> Uh, you know, it comes down to if it's a Mitzvah or you have Shailas HaDayichim. I think each situation >> So, I I I I understand that and and and and I you did a brilliant job of avoiding. These are questions that I I I have a a strong feeling about that I am not I I I I'm not sharing it fully. >> Now we get to ask some of the buckram some questions, right? >> Yeah, so now the way we're going to work now is we have four or five questions. They're going to raise their hand. I I know some of them automatically going to raise their hands like Machal is off for sure going to raise his hand. All right, so I I sent out these questions to the staff before. If there's a camper, you know, if there's an eighth grader that wants to ask a question, I'm going to ask the first question to the eighth grader Rabbi Garfield and that is it's question number two. Think about it for 30 seconds, guys, or a seventh grader in the audience. Shout out your favorite rebbe and why they were your favorite. Does anyone here shout out your favorite rebbe? You could say his name, you could say the yeshiva you're in, and why he was your favorite. No, Eli Toso from Houston cannot. Do we let him? >> Of course. >> Okay, but it can't be Rabbi Garfield. That's like corny, right? >> I was his English teacher. I taught him language arts this year. >> Yeah, so then there's no way you're his favorite teacher. Shout out your favorite rebbe. You have one? Oh, we have someone here. Nachman, you're going to say what grade rebbe you was and going to say why. >> My name is Nachman. My sixth grade rebbe back from elementary school. Now I'm in going to 30 minutes measure. My sixth year rebbe I wasn't the best top student in the class growing up when I was a kid. I'm not saying I am now, but that is something else. He made a program with me every single week. He used his own money from his own wallet. He made a program. He used to test me on the learning every single week and used to give me $20 cash, which was a big thing back in sixth grade. He told me to use that, go out to eat, or something like that every single week and it really from from then on he he really he really really helped me through through sixth grade. He really really did. >> What's what's his name? >> His name is Rabbi Weitzner. >> Beautiful. >> Definitely one of my favorite Rabbiem is my rebbe from pre-1A. His name is Rabbi Friedman. Who actually till today I'm I'm coming out of 12th grade, so this is going back 12 years. I'm in Yeshiva Derech Atei. And he still he sits in the back of the basement mesh where I'm going to measure I'm going to base measure next year. He's in second seder there. And he until today will come over to me, will call my father to find out how I'm doing. This past year he was there. He would ask me, "What Yeshiva is this guy from from our class from pre-1A? Where is he going?" And I would tell him he would say, "You know, I think yeah, yeah, and I think that's a good place for him." Meaning he still cares, 12 years later. It's not like he's not like he forgot about us. It's not like it's not like he doesn't care about us. He still cares. >> Beautiful. >> I think that's why he's one of the best. >> Schwartz. >> Okay, we're going to ask now that we got the the fun little now that they're more comfortable that they spoke on mics. So, we'll ask the next question. >> Okay. I'll ask question number one here. Do you think it's hard to create a kesher with a rebbe? Do most guys feel they have an adult who isn't their parent who knows them well? And is this important to you? >> So, this is you know, we're going to ask this question obviously in Mesivta or Bais Medrash. Different Yeshivas have different levels of relationship. There's the colder Yeshivas, the warmer Yeshivas. How important is it to you to have a kesher with your rebbe? And what was the end of that question of having How important do you think it is to have someone other than your parents that isn't your parent but that knows you and is a shaikh ish to you? And I'm going to add a little flavor. Do you think this is something that you wish Yeshivas did better at or do you think that you know, you know, talk about your Yeshiva or in general if you're careful that this is something that you feel really was one of the keys to your success or something that you wish you had more of? Um we're going to ask Mahal to speak. >> So, I think the first part of the question that I read to was also um is it do you do you think it's hard to get a kesher with the rebbe? I think that was also part of the question that rebbe said. So, just regarding that, I think of course it's hard to get a kesher with the rebbe. I'm saying there's a lot of every rebbe, any rebbe who's a good rebbe automatically should be able to talk to a kid if the kid wants to talk to him. Not that it's going to be easy, but every rebbe should be able to talk to the kid. Now, depending on the rebbe, depending on the Yeshiva, some rebbe and will go over to the kid and they'll ask the kid, like "Hey, how you doing?" And some rebbe and won't go over to the kid. But any good rebbe in my opinion should be able to talk to have the ability to talk to a kid. If the kid comes over to him, he's able to talk to the kid. Now, leaving that aside, now the >> Okay. that's talking to the rabbi once you're talking to the rabbi, but coming into the rabbi, there's two type There's the cold There's everyone calls the cold rabbi and the warmer rabbi. So, even when he's Let's Let's go with the easier side, the warmer rabbi. Everyone thinks, "Oh, if I go to a warm yeshiva, I'll have a rabbi." That's not necessarily true. If you have a warm rabbi who asks you every morning, "How is your breakfast? What did you eat for breakfast? How is your seder? What are you doing?" If the kid's not opening up about takhlis, what's happening in his life, if serious things are happening in his life, or even not so serious, just things that need to be talked about with the rabbi, any spiritual thing, then yeah, of course, then the relationship is going to fizzle out cuz 20 years later when the rabbi calls the kid, he's not calling him and being like, "Hey, what did you eat for breakfast this morning?" You know, it's not going to It's not going to stand. So, then when it comes and when and when when it comes to a cold rabbi, right? He's not going to ask the kid every 10 seconds, "Hey, how are you doing? What's up?" Right? But if the kid has a serious problem or not so serious problem and he he's comfortable enough going over to the rabbi, then that rabbi will be able to talk to him and he'll build a long-standing relationship. So, whether it's a cold rabbi or a warm rabbi, if the kid is going over to him or if he's going over to the kid. If the kid is able to talk about something that has takhlis to it, something that he's he's able to grow from, then the relationship the relationship is going to stand and it won't and and yeah, that's going to take work. It is to open up. It's not comfortable to open up to your rabbi and people like being in control and that's not something people want. So, um yeah, it is going to be hard. >> In your yeshiva, how many guys are at your level? Like if you're a second-year base medrish, like 30, 40, 50? Like how many guys are at that level? >> How many guys are in my shiur? >> Yeah, if that's if there's one shiur at the level Some yeshivas have more than one shiur. >> I'm in a shiur of about 50 guys, which is a combination of second year after Pesach and above. >> Okay. And of those 50 guys, it doesn't have to be in your yeshiva. They could just have a kesher. What's Would you think have a kesher with the rabbi? Could be their pre-1A rabbi. But a real kesher. Of those 50, how many do you think have a real kesher with the rabbi? >> Obviously, we're talking about different rabbanim here. It's not 50 with one rabbi. Um, say >> Right, I know. The guy can have a kesher with less year or with another guy. >> Yeah. I'd say probably 35 to 40. >> Okay. That's like 80%. >> Maybe I Yeah. There are definitely guys who don't. I once asked my rebbe about I noticed there are certain guys he doesn't talk to. And he said, "Yeah, if the guy is good enough a guy and has nothing to talk about, then the relationship does kind of fizzle out cuz I have nothing to talk to him about and he has nothing to talk to me about." My rebbe did tell me that. >> It's an honest answer. All right, excellent. Uh, thank you for your comments. I mean, I wonder Rabbi I can't see the crowd, but maybe you could ask the poll do your hand raising poll that's skewed towards you. So, could you ask >> You could ask it. They'll raise their hands. >> Okay, I'm just curious. Like, would you would if you agree that it's about 80% of guys in your world have a kesher with a rebbe? >> Have a kesher with a rebbe. Not I mean a a kesher with a rebbe is someone that feel comfortable they could talk to about things that are important to them in life. Raise your hand if you think that number is 80%. I would say one out of five think it's 80%. >> All right. >> I'll ask it again. Much less. Raise your hand if you think the number is much less. Percentage of bochurim in mesivta and beis medrash that have a real kesher with a a rebbe for life. Raise your hand if you think it's less than 50%. So, around 50/50 think it's less than 50%. I don't know what that means, Reb Garfinkel. >> [laughter] >> Interesting. Um, okay, yeah, I wonder. I don't know. What do you think, Rabbi Schmuel, remembering back to your days? >> So, I I I'm not going to I listen, I learned in South Fallsburg, learned in the Mir, learned in Shaar HaTorah, so I could speak. But anyway, I'm going to actually I I you know, I learned in Shaar HaTorah. Shaar HaTorah has a reputation. I say this to parents all the time. It's a cold yeshiva. It's a cold yeshiva. And I tell parents two things. Number one is I wish this wasn't true, but it's the reality. If you're going to call Shaar HaTorah cold yeshiva, then you're going to call all the top yeshivas cold yeshivas. The reality is that the higher level yeshivas, the rebbeim spend their time um, giving shiur and not talking to the boys. We said the story this past season of a certain up and coming very chashuve rosh yeshiva. Um, I think some staff members um, are going to and that is they went to Rebel bear and he said I have an an hour after night seder and I could either spend the time talking to the 10% of my book and that are struggling in mental health and need of smooth and need to talk about in Yanam of themselves or I could spend talking to the 90% about what should I spend my hour on and the rebel said to him the cash is a choice you think the 90% don't also need to talk about mental health right so that is but it's the reality that I think it's unfortunate but it's just the reality >> I was actually this summer I was talking to a show of a magic chair and I had to scroll he told me very similar thing he said like he you know he realizes more and more and this is like someone who a lot of people know you know he's a big name said he's realizing more and more that guys need engagement into even if they don't engage him he needs to say how you doing he needs to connect to guys more make more of an effort >> right right but but you know my rebel him I learned in in Charlotte and then certain names of certain men won't say oh he's cold he's not warm and he's a rebel him for life out of here maybe I'm different than most maybe I push more than most I call them I speak to them and I just want to say an amazing story about a bunch of years to show that even a bunch of years when I was in a year but it was only 300 book him and now there's 900 but just sometimes it's not it's showing that you care I asked a bunch of years a question about I was married for 3 months and I had a a family simple should my wife go back alone without me even though I'm showing the show you know what should I do should I stay during this marriage should my wife leave in a bus really paused and he said to me how long you married you married 3 months he's saying this in Yiddish and he says let me make a cash man your cash man was 10 Zion cash man so that's 3 months ago that's what he said to me and he was telling me therefore how long I'm married a bunch of years told me that he knew when my wedding was you realize how crazy that is how did he know I sent him an invitation in the mail and he got it and that was it like he probably gets 300 a day I wasn't putting up to a bunch of years that he pressed file and enter in his brain Tezein Cheshvan, and he was cared enough about me to show me that he remembered. He was waiting, right? And he said, "L'man acheinu Cheshvan, you're chasan with Tezein Cheshvan, that's 3 months ago." So, the reason why I know my my anniversary is Tezein Cheshvan is because of Rosh Hashanah. But, so that's an ability of a person who doesn't speak to everyone, but shows you that he cares. That being said, here's our opinion. I'm not just going to dance around it. I think that it is a weakness of the more Aleph Yeshivas and chisoron, that maybe it's a natural human chisoron, that there are bayim that are so excited to give shiur, don't spend enough time talking to the bachurim about life. >> Well, they're not exactly hired for their interpersonal skills. I mean, come on, let's be honest. >> That's like saying you're hiring a quarterback and he doesn't have a good arm, but he has good foot speed. If you are a rebbe and you are impacting lives of talmidim and you don't have good interpersonal skills, then record yourself, maybe, and send it out to be listened to on, you know, however you like, on a stream. If you're going to talk to people and you're connecting to people and you say you don't have interpersonal skills, then you can't be a rebbe and you can't be a Rosh Yeshiva. >> A third year rebbe? You can't be a third grade a third year rebbe? >> A third year maggid shiur whose bachurim are deciding what to do with life, should they maybe go to college, do they go to Eretz Yisrael, what the shidduchim, they have parents that they're struggling with, and what what It's life shailos. You know, if you struggle interpersonally, then you shouldn't be a rebbe in anywhere. >> so maybe that is like a new age kind of thinking. I mean, certainly the traditional >> That's it. Reb Garfinkel, do you disagree with me? >> I don't disagree, but I think it's important to note that that is not how Klal Yisrael has operated >> that. >> historically. >> I think, especially in the more Aleph Yeshivas, it's not. >> Right. >> And they try to get a mashgiach to help fill the gaps. Mashgiach is not a rebbe. We have time for I think two more questions, so we're going to try to ask them to get them through. I'll ask the next question, and that is pressure. Does pressure and competition make you work harder? Is it a maila or a chisoron to have kinas sofrim? You always hear, "Kinas sofrim tarbei chochma." Do you think the pressure, obviously, in your Yeshiva is something that long-term is good because it makes you work harder and eventually you'll get it you'll get there on your own or does it just cause burnout and cause it to learn for the wrong reasons? What has been your experience and your impression on pressure in your Yeshiva? Waiting for someone to raise their hand. Preferably someone that hasn't spoke but if not we'll ask we'll call on someone. Dovid, can you speak? I want Dovid to speak. Yes. Dovid, they don't know who your last name is. You learned in a few different Yeshivas. We're going to have Dovid speak. >> Um pressure I think it would be it would depend where the pressure is coming. Obviously, every person is going to be depends on every person. For certain for certain people maybe the pressure will be good cuz it's going to it's going to push the person harder and resulting in that they'll study better. For some people the pressure won't be good and then even though right now it looks like you'll be learning better could be long run you won't be learning better. But I think it's a very totally question on who the bocher is and what Yeshiva he's coming from. >> Give us a little more, Dovid. You got to wait too easy on that. >> [clears throat] >> Okay, so ask him what I said. >> Let me ask you this. In your current Yeshiva, don't say where it is, doesn't really matter. Is there pressure to learn and what is that? Where does it come from? >> In the in the Yeshiva I'm right now it's a very healthy atmosphere where there's no it's not a crazy high pressure place in order to learn. For some people it's great. For some people it's the opposite because there's no pressure to learn and learn and learn. >> at 10:00 9:30. I don't know when seder starts, 9:00 9:30. If you should if you roll in at 10:15, you don't feel like people look at you funny or you like >> No, so people do look you a little funny but not not a lot funny. So for some people again that's great and for some people it's not. >> if they looked at you like really funny you show up at 9:00 on Friday? >> Certain people yes, certain people certain people obviously never care. Certain people that would that would make that would make them show up. But again, you have to know that guy now showing up in in 2 years is he is that is that going to help them or is that not? >> Oh, that's the question. Now we're That's the question of Dovidel. What do you think? Do you think if there was pressure that got a guy to show up on Friday morning at 9:15 cuz he didn't want people to look at him funny, would that theoretically be a good thing? >> I guess it's going to it really depends. Could be now it's going to build a tendency for him to start coming on time, or could be that just enacting it that he's just acting now or then he's not going to be coming on time. So, it's all it's all depends on who the guy is. >> on your experience what you think which way it >> general experience is that that it depends on the person. >> Okay. >> The the concern about pressure, and this is why I'm wondering if any of the bochurim have seen this, is guys giving up. Because they're in an environment where maybe you're not, where there is pressure to be a masmid, pressure to be a lamdan, real pressure to maybe conform, pressure to spend 3 hours a night on shiur, you know, pressure to give a chaburah. And if you're just not capable of meeting the expectation in the yeshiva, >> it burns you. >> It burns you. It burns you, and it burns you out. My I I I'm We're both elementary school menahalim. My peripheral view is that a lot of guys burn out and get turned off because they're in an environment that is just pressurized. I I'm I guess maybe again I maybe I'm wrong. That's just my my If you ask me in a snapshot, pressure is an amazing thing cuz I know we talk shleimus haboleshima, but it also has real side effects. >> Well, what does your chaver say? We have a cross-section right in front of you. So, what what do they say? >> What's what question are we asking them specifically? >> They think there's a unhealthy pressure. Is the pressure in a way that's unhealthy and causing guys to burn out? >> Do you guys think there is an unhealthy pressure in yeshivas today? Raise your hand if you think the answer is yes. One. >> 60%. >> No. >> I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm making fun. >> Less. A real minority. We have a boy that raised his hand that said yes, it is unhealthy, and we're going to let him talk, and then we'll go to the next question. >> Okay. >> I think that there's two type of pressures that coming from different places. Meaning if there's a healthy pressure coming from a positive place, automatically it's not going to cause burnout or any of those side effects that we're talking about, the bad side effects. But unhealthy pressure from a different guy learning during a break when he's not really learning or just because he wants to show off, that means he's not doing good. It's not That's not because they're learning sh'ma. That's not even learning sh'ma. >> I hear you. And you find that as a common >> I think in every single issue but there's both. >> Yeah. But I shouldn't feel that sound like you were saying that you see it more or that maybe maybe cuz you see 30 and 40-year-olds and like the results, you know, like these don't see it. >> Yes. I I think what we see and I think you're going to you're going to shake your head in this. Every parent that is in our office and we're more, you know, out of townee, right? And they have a fourth-grade son and they're like, "I don't want my son to be turned off. I'm afraid of the pressure. I was in the Yeshiva, you know, and and I'm going to give a shout-out, you know, we'll give a silent round of applause. The reality is that it's not just the boys that are so and maybe smart enough and kosher enough to become and counselors in the cat schools are the top 10% of The other ones are not doing that. They're doing other things. So it's almost maybe as much as we said this is the, you know, the wide spectrum. We're watching the boys that maybe are causing the pressure. They're the reasons why this 45-year-old parent in my office and in your office is like, "It's too much pressure today. It killed me. I don't want it to kill my son." You hear that often, don't you? >> Yeah, and I I don't know if we're even I don't know that we're even aware of it in the moment because it's so normal. It's just how it is. But like one day when you're alone and you're 32 and no one's watching you and you realize like, you know, I got to do this cuz I want to do it, it could come and and you know, rear its head at that point. But you know, I don't know what we do with this really. >> So we have one more question about Garfield. This is a little bit of a sensitive one. We'll see we'll see who decides to raise their hand for this. And that is How about this? I ready to do something really horrible? I'm going to ask my son this question. >> Oh, wow. >> I just saw that he's here. And this is the question is follows. I have a son Shopsie who's in the audience. I don't think Ari Malach is here. >> What year how old is Shopsie? Where is he holding? >> Shopsie is currently going into third year base medrish. Here's the question. You ready, Shopsie? What is something parents in general worry about that you think they shouldn't? What is something that parents don't worry about but they probably should? >> [laughter] >> That's a great one. >> Is this fair to ask Shopsie? >> I should get one of my kids in from the other room. Okay, go ahead. >> Shopsie, are you you willing to talk? Or he needs more details on the question. Give me an example of something that parents I'll go the the positive way. Something that parents are worried about and also you know you know and and like they just don't get it. We're fine. Don't worry, you know. I you know, I'll give you an example which I hope is not hope is not your answer, right? Let's say smoking, right? Don't worry, I'll smoke and I'll stop. Stop and get over it, right? That may be an answer you're hearing in some circles. Not for my son. So, that's a general question of give me an example of give us an example of something that parents are obsessive about and so nervous about and they don't realize that normal bachrum are like this and well, it's not a big deal. It doesn't have to be a vice. It doesn't have to be lashon hara or drinking. It could be in general. >> you what my son would say in a second. >> What would your son say? >> And I'm not saying which son. >> Technology. >> one son? >> Technology. >> Fortnite, specifically. >> Fortnite's the worst thing ever. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> I know someone that is a mechallel Shabbos because of Fortnite. >> I know someone who's mechallel Shabbos because of camp. What does that even mean? YOU COULD BE MECHALLEL SHABBOS FOR ANY REASON, you know? It's not Fortnite. Please. Shopsie, don't say Fortnite, man. It's not worth it. >> I don't think he's ever ever played Fortnite, so um >> See? He doesn't know. >> Firstly, I'm not saying that this applies to my parents, obviously. >> Thank you for saying that. >> thing that parents definitely overlook and it's something that's not as big of a deal is tfillah, whether it's tfillah b'tzibbur, coming on time, missing. I think it's just I don't know. I feel like my my experience what I see is that people miss and it's not as big of a real saw on a bachur not nearly as much as what parents think, whether it's missing a shacharis here, coming late, missing a baruchu like I feel like a lot of parents expect their son every shacharis if it starts at 8:40 to be there 8:35 to put on tefillin 5 minutes before. I think and if he comes at 8:52 and his tefillin's just on by baruchu, that's a concern where he comes by mincha by chazaras hashatz. That much I I I think though it's I guess it's harder for bachurim than parents think or whatever the reason is. I just think that's overlooked much more. And things that >> You got to answer. >> parents don't look at enough Um >> He's about to incriminate himself before he can. >> Um not so sure. >> Okay, do you have a license Shopsy? Shopsy? >> I do have a license. >> Do you think that parents worry enough about their kids driving? >> I think it depends the parent but I think there are a lot of parents yes, they are very protective. About justified? >> What do you think? What are you talking about? We drive fine. >> I think that's justified. I think that makes sense. For the driving late with a bunch of guys for a bunch of 20 year olds to get in a car at 2:00 a.m. makes sense. Not saying it should always be no, it should be but it makes sense for them to be worried. It also makes sense for it makes sense for them to say yes. But it makes sense for them to be worried. >> Okay, good answer. See if we can get one more. >> What is that? >> Um first of all, I agree with what Shopsy said for starters. I think that's a a very good call. I think that a lot of times parents don't really trust their kids in a social dynamic. That they are socially with the right people and hang out with the right people and therefore it could be that it comes from a a lack of trust which then I I guess it's a they have it it's a explainable. But overall the trust and assuming that the child is going to hang out with the right people and do the right things and hopefully infusing that in their child and teaching them as to who they should be with and and make the right decisions and putting their trust in them. >> That's a great point. That's a great point. Not to mention the fact that telling a your kid not to like hang out with someone is probably the least effective way to >> You know I agree with that. I want to just point I think to to explain why parents, to Shopsy's point, to a baal habus who's not in Yeshiva one of the most fundamentally important parts of his ruchniyus is davening. >> Right. >> He's learning an hour maybe in the morning if he's lucky he can learn a little bit more. So tefillah is his expression of ruchniyus. A Yeshiva bochur who's learning 12 hours a day, his expression of ruchniyus of course is also davening. But it's be'ikker mainly his learning. And that's where there's like this this disconnect sometimes between the parents not understanding the different ways to connect to Hakadosh Baruchu and what their role is and that their ikker is to a bochur in terms of of, you know, what what Akiva, the other boy, said about trust. That's tricky. That is tricky. As a you know, it comes of course it's rooted in love and protection. And it's all about what age, you know, as a 24-year-old who's in dating, yes, you can trust your kid. But an a 12-year-old, it's the hardest thing in the world maybe to break up a relationship that you don't like. But a you know, 12-year-old, a 14-year-old, parents are are nervous. And I think for good reason, but I'm a parent. >> I I could very much relate to what he was saying. Like think about when I was a kid. Like I knew the kids in my class who were less, whatever, healthy and the kids who weren't. I don't know. I didn't You know, maybe I was a healthier kid, but that's the problem. If your kid isn't healthy, that he can't uh understand the dangers of or or inappropriateness and the >> gufa. Don't blame Yanam. >> Then then there's something wrong with your kid. If your kid doesn't know, let's say cursing, right? Let's say nivul peh. So, if your kid can't be around other kids who use nivul peh cuz he's going to start using it, that's a concern in your parenting of him. >> There's an idea of a person is, you know, affected by his surroundings, right? You can't just say to let >> I'm not saying you should send them off to like a place that's fully horrible all the time, but in a class where there's a bunch of kids and you're like, "Yeah, you can't hang out with that kid." You know? I don't know. I feel like generally, I'm going to say generally if a kid is so susceptible to that negative friend, there's something going on with that kid. That's all. Okay, from my experience. >> So, this this really was a uniquely special night. The funny part is that we got at the time this is being aired, it will be a little bit colder and camp will be a distant memory when we listen to this. It's almost like I want I want our camp to almost like make have Cavana now. We're about to go I'm not going to say whether breaking out color war tonight. They'll find out as they listen whether color war tonight was you know, we spoke about. Obviously, all the important things just to summarize Tyron and the goodness of Sodom and all the different aspects that the Yeshiva's have um and different roles and pressure, but whether color break out tonight or not, we have we have a night activity to run. So, this is a uniquely special night. We always want to do this to hear from Bachrum >> Yeah, I wish I could be with you guys in person, but this was a good start. It was a good start. You know, it looks like a great summer. I do have to share the the number and the email or else like we can't shut off the correct though. But, I do enjoy it. Thank you guys. It was wonderful. Let's do one last big clap. Woo! And and a huge clap for your director, Rabbi Ari Scharf. >> [screaming] >> WOO! >> SO, THAT THAT WAS FUN. >> OH, YEAH. >> BESIDES THE fact that it was enjoyable, it was I think important for us to hear from kids from Bachrum about pressure, about the challenge of a Kesha with a Rebbi, you know, a >> about some of the things. >> Shout out to Shabs and my own son who had the guts to talk about things that parents maybe take too seriously, but you know, about you know, Kesha versus Sader, you know, and that a real um you know, real big picture big ticket item of of how to navigate performing Kesha and not at the expense of of Hasmoda, but I think it was important to hear from the Bachrum. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And now back to our regular programming. And now back to preaching. Now back to preaching them, telling them what to do. >> And for that, I will say that we love getting the comments. We've been getting great audio comments and questions. Some really great feedback, actually. So, thank you to those who took the time to do that. And you could call in and leave a leave us such feedback and ideas and guest ideas at 443 686-9339. That's 443 686-9339 or you could send an email to the [email protected]. That's the [email protected]. >> All right. Take care, everybody. >> All the best.