S2. Eps 8. Let's Talk Seminary (feat. Mrs. Rivki Eichenstein)

It's lowhanging fruit for executive directors or directors development like all these kids like let's cash in you know but I've always resisted that very strong >> to me the biggest psychological issue or or challenge when the kid gets a phone is it makes them an independent adult. They don't need you anymore. Welcome to the learning curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaha magazine. >> We are raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing from families today. >> I am Rabbi Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrace Emis in Houston and I love talking about >> I am Rabbi Ire Shfeld Manaliva Katana of Manhattan base tipper of Manhattan and director of camp. I also love talking and sometimes fishing. Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. >> Brim Habim and welcome back to another episode of the learning curve. I am your co-host Irish Shamfell along with more venerable as we always like to say co-host Rabbi Rakel Garfield as we delve into the deep waters Kamay get it of how are you Rabbi? >> Wonderful. It's great to be back. We really got into it last episode. We really, you know, we jumped right into the deep end with our discussions. It was great. It's always a pleasure. I enjoy it. It's been a while. So, it's great to be back in season two. >> Yes. And all our answers this week are already pre-programmed through ChatGpt. So, we're not This is not real, right? We just >> We're getting to that, right? That'll be not you. You said you never used Chat GBT if I recall. >> I don't recall. No, I know. I said I don't like to use it, you know. >> Oh. Oh, you don't like to use that? >> No, I'm Anyways, >> yes, we have an exciting program ahead. Sometimely topics that we think will resonate, especially with the Purum coming up and then with some bigger topics. So, away we go. I think this week I won the coin flip or lost, however you view it. I get the first question, you get the second, then we broach the third large spotlight topic together. >> All right, here we go. >> Begin. >> Question number one. I appreciate the topics you choose and the refreshing cander with which you both speak. So I am hoping for the same regarding a pet peeve of mine. Mid winter break is supposed to be a time to relax. But for parents like me, it often feels like a challenge. With schools out for so long, I find myself struggling to keep my kids entertained day after day. So many families take big trips traveling far, spending a fortune, and I feel the pressure to do the same just so my kids don't feel left out. What about those of us who can't or don't want to go away? Should schools reconsider the length of these breaks or at least provide more support for families who stay local? >> It's a very fair it's a fair question. >> Let's just start by I just remind me like you were in Payic and now you're in town Manhattan like what do you guys think? >> So until a few years ago I was not in charge of making these decisions. So I guess I could say whatever I want because I it wasn't consequential really for me. I was a rebby mistake for a while. I was a rebby in Shibi Spring Valley before and now as the manali time Manhattan so the decision falls on me. We kind of are maybe an in between in terms of the amount of vacation that we give. I know Houston has their own. You give yours Anakah time or at December Hanukkah time, right? >> We give off to Yeah. December 23rd to January 2nd, >> right? Which there are a lot of advantages to that in terms of running the school because your English teachers want to take off then anyways, >> right? But we have a very large number much more than in town schools. Correct. Non-Jews who work in our school. >> Right. But as a from school, you want to almost padded not >> have vacation at those times. >> Right. It's not idealized. >> Right. So my yeshiva katana Manhattan we give off interestingly a Thursday through Wednesday. Thursday afternoon through Wednesday. Kind of almost like an in between. So it really gets everybody upset. >> Was it like that all the years or is that your >> Yes. No, I inherited this and I think it I if only thing I maybe I add it. It may have been it used to be a full day Thursday and now we give a half a day. I'm trying to give people a chance who want to go away for Shabas to still come to yeshiva on Thursday. >> Um but basically that's what it is. Now the reality is you will never make everyone happy. No matter what your yeshiva policy is, there will be people that will be upset that you should be no vacation. There will be people upset that there should be more vacation. So there's a lot of different parts to this question. There's the hashkafa of the gashmas of yeshiva. You know, someone asked me recently, why don't you boys and girls schools, should Bedafans have separate vacations so that the parents can't go away together to like avoid this stress of going to Florida and going to all these exotic islands because it's the wrong message of of of gashm that we that's it's the antithesis of trying to do in yeshiva. That's one angle. The other angle is the financial strain and stress. So, I'll deal with the with I could answer both, I think, but the fashion the financial stress piece, you know, it's a reality. We just touched upon this in I think in our first season. It's a mitas and it's a reality. There are people that make fancier weddings and the people that drive nicer cars and have nicer homes and go on nicer vacations. And as parents, as parents, not as yes is yes is yes is yes is yes is yes is yes is yes is yes is yes ishibas as parents if you are part of that you know of that doesn't have the means of others it's a tremendous challenge but it's your role as parents to teach your kids to teach your kids to embrace that others the difference between families you know maybe my parents did a wonderful job I grew up in a rabbis family we never went away mid- winter vacation anywhere on a plane and I think the first time I was on a plane After the age of five, I was 20 going to a friend of mine and somehow we grew up happy and well adjusted. So that's not a vacation. That's why it's like it's apparent using midwinter vacation as a place to land when it's a societal challenge and it's a family challenge of those that have money versus those that don't. >> So basically, you're saying to the person who took the time to write this letter, "Thinks for you and I have nothing to say." is what I'm hearing. >> That I have nothing to say. Hey, it's a challenge, but I don't >> like give nothing to you. I don't hear an aids or something they could do with it. It's sort of like, yeah, you're saying this is life and you know, there's nothing for the school to do, nothing for the parents to really do. >> I I don't think it's a yeshiva's role to create an even playing field so that that for the so that the the halves and the have nots, for lack of a better word, don't feel a need to compete against each other. the same way I don't think it's >> about about bar and b mitzvah bas mitzvah >> they do that for policies they do that for different reasons most of those reasons for bar and bas mitzvah are because they want to create a certain ru out a bar mitzvah and ensure that it's done in a certain way those rules may be controversial not everyone likes those rules and here's the biggest difference when you make a bar mitzvah you are inviting it's it's a school function in a certain sense so therefore as a manal I feel I have a role and a right perhaps to demand certain expectations at bar mitz because you're going to invite the whole class and there's an automatic assumption everyone's going >> but this is it's during you know so you want to limit what you want to I think I'm I'm I think it's hard and it's it's difficult and I was that kid growing up I don't think it's a school's role >> what about making it less long >> so right so because why so if you believe that there's inherent value in giving vacation the kids a chance to breathe ram a chance to breathe and not every right if you go to different yeshivas there's different amounts my kids yes p have less vacation but you're going to give >> right from a pedagogical like perspective what's the right or you're saying I mean >> I don't know but it probably is cultural and social and depending that's a lot of it and it's definitely what the precedent was I'm happen to be I don't know if I should say this out loud because I'm a man I'm a big vacation person I think family time is amazing. Now I have a huge advantage and that is whenever I have family time I'm off. I know that I don't work in you know as an accountant when I give off I am off. So it's an unfair advantage. But that being said like when there's a snow day or when there's oh you know vac when there's vacation time leaving aside the logistical challenges of going to work of course I think it's awesome. I think it's beautiful for families to get together and I'm not looking to chop away vacation time now. It's a challenge because there are families that can't go on vacation now. Maybe should schools come up with day trips. I don't know if anyone does that. Do you know anyone that has tried it? >> It's been, you know, the podcast were 9 minutes in. You didn't mention that you have a camp. Maybe there's room for a camp midwinter. >> You're a funny man. >> For those guys who can't get in because registration is closed within 3 hours, you could open a like one week. I'm >> not I did not pay you to say this, right? I did not. Do you know of any yeshiva that has day trips? I think it wouldn't work. I would think that it's like, you know, anyone that doesn't >> we did this year, which was actually quite successful because we got this feedback. We give off probably longer because it's from the 23rd to the 2nd. So, it's like seven days, it could be eight days depending on >> depends on the calendar, but >> it's longer than your normal week. You know, a lot of schools give five days however they whereas like we're more like closer to two weeks of school time. So we did what we called y holidays and we paid the reban extra and we had just learning from like 8:30 to 12 optional and we filled so the vacation was only 5 days because we used three school days doing that you know and >> percentage of the >> like 80% 80% different grades had different participation >> I think so like the eighth grade boys maybe a little less whatever but generally speaking it was pretty full but it let people who needed to go away go away the got paid which was Nice. You know, we were able to always looking for opportunities to provide support for that and parents felt like they we heard this concern which we did and it was a compromise. >> Wow. The advantage by the way the longer you give off the easier it is for you to kind of split that in half. Know when you give off four or five days, right? >> You're not going to have a three-day after college and have a one and a half day vacation. >> Correct. >> So, so in a way they cut it down to basically what you have. >> You know, it was like >> instead of being Monday, it was like three days left. So, it's five days. So you get from Wednesday to Wednesday or whatever it was Wednesday to Tuesday or >> I >> I think in the more yeshivish circles it's a Friday Monday that's kids that >> and invariably a lot of kids will miss Thursday and a lot of kids maybe will miss Tuesday and you know a lot of kids will miss a day here and a day there >> and and the charge you know the Gashmir's piece I think is the same. Yeah, I don't think yeshiva is promoting. We're not giving free vacations to the Bahamas in our school, but there are kids and then families that have more means than others. And >> I don't think it's our role in a yeshiva to >> do I'm waiting for do you disagree? >> I I agree. I agree. I think uh this is something that comes up a lot where parents feel pressure and they look to the school to address it. Internet rules, phone rules, driving a car, you know, they it's much easier if the school takes a stand. Then I think that a school has to be very thoughtful and strategic about that and not to you know take over the responsibility of the parent >> but at least a phone rule let's go which maybe we'll get to today there are ramifications internally socially in a classroom setting if everyone has a phone that at night and maybe you're emailing >> always a black and white >> line you know it's >> you know it's in in school law there's something called in locos parente which basically means that a school when the children are with you takes in place takes the place of the parents and has legal ramifications. You know, I know me and you use Latin all the time in our educational banter. >> Yes. >> But, you know, there are limitations of that. But that is a thing. You know, in Lucas Bar, you're playing a role of a parent. There is one point I want to make before we go on to the next question, which is for parents who struggle with, you know, they have a lot of young kids and they're home and it's hard. It always bothers me to hear parents say in front of their kids, "Oh no, you don't have school. Oh no, it's snowing. I can't be home with my kid. Oh no, it's winter break." you might feel that way and I'm not trying to take away from that that you know that that's something you could maybe express to an adult or to your principal or to your mother or a sister but to your kids I think we have to be very careful that is a horrible message for a parent to say oh no I have to spend time with you and I don't think parents realize that a three-year-old or a 5-year-old hears you say that you know you don't think they're kids they're not going to say excuse me you know they're not going to respond that way but they essentially hear you say that you don't want to spend time with them imagine if instead you said, "Whoa, a snow day. We get to spend the day together." Like, what a good deposit in the relationship. And I've heard parents that do say that, by the way, I know some very close to me who are look forward to opportunities to spend time with their kids. What a crazy idea. >> So, I just want to sensitize the all the parents who are listening to this at least even if you feel that way, which is itself maybe something to explore, but certainly not to say it to your children, please. Lanasha. >> Wonderful. All right, let's move on to question number two. Dear TLC, Purim is such a special time for children, but I struggle with the expectation that they should go collecting for their school. While I understand the importance of fundraising, I feel uncomfortable sending my young kids out to ask for donations and forta. As a parent, I want to teach them about giving and supporting our but I also want to protect their innocence and keep their focus on the joy of the yiff. This is I guess a purim related but this can obviously we can expand upon this. How can I balance supporting the yeshiva while ensuring that my children experience purim in a meaningful and age appropriate way? So when this you know perm is soon mashem so ree Garfield this is something that comes up every year >> parents manal >> so I've been very strong to resist this urge it's like it's lowhanging fruit for executive directors or directors of development like we have all these kids like let's cash in you know but I've always resisted that very strong and >> why >> I just think it's a it's not the kids' responsibility b they don't have the social acumen to do do it responsibly. See that I don't know that you could trust children with money. And I just think that the whole thing just becomes a very unhealthy educational experience primarily because it's so highly incentivized. And what schools end up doing is they essentially say to kids, if you collect money, you could get uh whatever bottle of soda or a or a Nintendo or a scooter or whatever, a bike, a trip to Israel, whatever they're giving away. And essentially the kids are just motivated by that. They're not doing it because of or love of the school of they want to get the little gadget. And so what kind of is that? It's it treats you transactional. Highly transactional like >> what if it's not? We discussed this in in the first season, but what if it's not? What if it's just not everything is what if it's a yeshiva's way? >> Highly disagree with that, Rabbi Schfeld on the learning curve podcast. Everything is everything we model, every value, everything we communicate, every standard we set is But please continue. >> I don't know what that means. This is not a moment, but we're asking the kids to get money for yeshiva. I'm I'm playing devil's advocate here. >> It's a moment. >> It is. You're saying >> Wait, what's the neg what's the negative trait that you are embibing in the children through this? Well, if you highly incentivize them, you're training them that you could do to get money, to get, you know, the gadget, to get the whatever. So, that's first of all, and they all do that. They have these fancy brochures that it's like, you know, has nothing to do with the like sell the you know, >> and forget the price. Just have a picture of the sick kid or whatever you're raising for the school, why it's so great. That at least is a little better. I still have the issues that I don't think kids could be trusted socially. You ever go to the mikvah in Arabium Kipper and there's like 8,000 kids tackling you for the boosters or I don't know what like it's you know who's to say they take that money and give it to the school even I don't even know that's in the sun that's so fair to set up all these kids there's no way that's responsible. Oh, I just think the whole enterprise is so flawed and how much money really, you know, are we talking now? All of that is from the school perspective everything you're saying. Oh, continue. Yeah, >> you you what? >> I was trying to find like a a little different angle, but I'll share my sentiment a little bit, but so far I very little to share because I agree. Continue. >> Oh, wow. Well, I I would like to apologize to all of our listeners for that. But I think the question that the person is asking is more as like a parent. Okay. So you're a school leader. I would say I would not advise it and you know whatever. But let's say you're a parent and the school is doing it. So what I would do and what I've done is I say to the kid, I will buy you that prize and we'll find another way to do festive because the prize is worth 12 cents generally. >> No. What if it's a propeller fan, a battery? >> They're still worth 12 cents. They just look like they're worth like >> you know those propeller fans that you put your finger in and it it stops the fan from going. >> Okay. 13 cents. I mean these batteries are ridiculous. So I would tell the kid, listen, if you really want to do it, I will, you know, I will buy you that prize and but we're going to do some kind of but has nothing to do with that, you know, >> right? So So just to add, you know, meaning I I really agree with um the entire sentiment. I do think that there is this almost as you said it becomes just a stickick a way to get whether it's whatever the big prize is and the older the kid the bigger the prize really >> and the kids will work literally just to get to that amount to get the prize. Oh I got my $36 so I get my basketball or my suit that that that they're offering if you're a high school kid and then I'm done. I don't think there's any staging or any kind of growth from it. different communities in terms of parents do have different social pressures and you know there are like in in Payic it is accepted the seventh and eighth graders they're in limousines and they're driving around the whole day on on on Purim collecting I'm not saying whether that's accepted by most people so as you said as a parent as a yeshiva if I was that was my school I would not promote it at all a lot of them are not done by the school there's you know a kid's father isn't involved in this cessed organization So he gets eight kids, right? It's asshivas we don't we don't control everything. But as a parent with my own children, it was not something we promoted. They however is I did not stop my child from being together on Purum dressed up in a onesie with all his friends who are going collecting for some amazing organization. >> I wouldn't stop my kid. I would educate him about it. I'd say you had to be respectful and you know don't it's not like money, you know, don't do anything for money like these people do crazy things and all that. But yeah, I wouldn't stop a kid in that scenario, I don't think. >> Right. I wouldn't stop. But >> but yeah, >> right. You know, but you know, we had an an incident, a wonderful story in our yeshiva here in Manhattan where two eighth graders went around on their own. This is where the beauty comes in there. One of the rebain and yeshiva had a safer that he was never wrote. He had all the notes, but it's expensive to publish a safer. So not telling him, they went around the community collecting money so the rebi could put out a safer. >> Beautiful. collected a couple of thousand dollars and they gave it to him as a surprise. He just put out the safer actually few months ago and in the middle in the akadama he has this big huge page thanking this Talmud. >> Wow. >> So that's right. That's but that's an eighth grader that's not a 12th grade. That's you know and when you get to Misifa and you want to you know when you're bismetric guy and you want to go around a car to your Rebi it's very different but as a 12y old it's >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't, >> you know, I understand that it's easy. You know, it's easy to do because the kids are there and they fall for it, but I just I resist it. I just think it's not worth the money that's being made. >> Okay, now let's go on to our spotlight question and our guest. And I guess let's read it and talk about it and hopefully we'll hear from our guest about it. My daughter, the oldest child in our family, is in seventh grade and has started babysitting frequently. Today, many families do not have home phone and she wants to get a phone so she could contact us when she is away from home. I know that once we say yes, it will require us to monitor and limit the use to those times. We have an old iPhone that is filtered and my wife seems comfortable allowing my daughter to use it when needed. I am less comfortable but we are both new to this and my daughter for sure knows technology way better than we do. What should we look out for in making this decision? >> That that is a a loaded >> I wonder how many people cannot relate to this. You know I I so relate to this. >> I mean it's like >> I don't want to say I have seventh grade daughter. She's not a big babysitter yet but and and I know this is not me writing this this email but this is a loaded question. There's 35 different parts of it. Um, and that's why one of the things I'd like to do is to bring on, you know, our guest to discuss this big issue. Before we begin this this sug I do want to make a disclaimer. The question was discussing an iPhone, but I think although we like to have banter back and forth, we'll both agree to this. I hope and I hope all parents will understand this that your child definitely middle school, seventh grade, eighth grade, really through high school, probably through adulthood, but definitely your child has no reason to ever have a smartphone ever. And we'll discuss the dangers and the technicalities of a smartphone later on in this episode and bringing on, you know, our guest. But I think it goes without saying that when there are children that need phones in my yeshiva, there are kids that need phones because they walk to school every day and their parents don't want them going alone. Um, or they need to call an Uber in Manhattan to get to yeshiva, a fig phone, a kosher phone, a kiosera, I think is what it's called, another all these different types of a cat phone. Um, all the different types of kosher phones. There's no need for anything above that ever for your child. So we we'll discuss this suga that the way it was asked but I do want to almost make a mah before we begin. >> I agree it's one of the rare cases where everyone agrees Jews and non-Jews religious non-religious psychologists raim you anywhere you look everyone agrees that a cell phone has very detrimental effects specifically on teenagers and girls but on everybody and you know it's just such a clear issue. >> Good. Now we could go back to this again. So to me just again there's there's big picture you know bird's eye view the longer you can have your kid not having a phone the better and I have a little bit of a different perspective inwise I once I heard this from one of my rebarian Kramer about his issue with cell phones for kids I know we'll hear a lot about the dangers of exposure and you know of schmutz and of inappropriateness and of grooming and then chats and all the dangers of technology in the phones and I'm not goes at all. To me, the biggest psychological issue or or challenge when the kid gets a phone is it makes them an independent adult. They don't need you anymore. >> And you know, I have, you know, when I call a an elementary school kid, I got this from Rabbi Kra, and I'll call their house to speak to them. I'll never ask for them. I'll ask for their parents and I'll say, "Hey, could I speak to your son?" And when a son or a daughter has a cell phone, they become their own person. They become incredibly independent. And at a young age, they're not ready to be independent. They don't need you for a ride. They don't need you to find out the weather. They don't need you as much. And I just think we have to just be weary and aware of that. That the longer we can hold off giving them a phone, the more we can keep them as children. And a lot of this is society, schools have a a huge role in this, but culturally there's a huge role in this. You know, Barashem, I have a a 10th grade son who's in a massa cliff in a wonderful Mifa doesn't have a cell phone and is not asking for one because that's just not what's standard in his class, which is a braha. Tremendous braha. I recognize that braha. So, a lot of this is fighting the society that you're in and culturally where you are. To me, that that's the >> I'm wondering though, we could agree that it's a legitimate request, right? I mean, to be in a house babysitting with no way to call out if, god forbid, there's a challenge or for a girl, I think that's a legitimate >> Yeah. I haven't touched the question yet. Yes. So, we have in our family, and I tell this to parents, is what's called a family phone, right? And a family phone is it's not yours, it's ours, and anyone can use it whenever. And again, it it it takes away the bilus and the ownership and the feeling of it's mine and therefore they're not taking to their room and they're, you know, just to begin that piece of this is not your phone. This is a family phone that we're being used. Forget what type of phone it is. Forget what it's or an phone, you know, a fig, a Quinn, all the Koshian phones. Whatever phone it is, as long as you can, it's not hers. It's ours. when it's, you know, it's just like you have a cordless in the house and this is a cordless that you're going to take to your friend's house. I think that right away takes away half the battle with your daughter or son and this specific parent, right? We have an old iPhone that is filtered and my wife seems comfortable allowing my daughter to use it when needed >> is I don't want to call it a Pandora's box, but is is an issue that I think that we as the parents must be familiar with. What does that mean? How what does it mean to be safe? Obviously, there's a hashkovic implications about owning a phone and that you know there's a lot of different angles to this, but we thought it would be very important to bring in >> a person who does this. >> All day is um I guess I have to be honest right away and telling everyone that we're related. I was going to wait till the end of the podcast to say that, but we are cousins. But really is an honor to to bring in Rabiosi Strickman. Yasi is the founder of Project Trust, an initiative that offers comprehensive support to those navigating the dangers of technology, >> including exposure to improper content, unhealthy internet habits, and cyber bullying. He is based in Payic, New Jersey. He speaks about safe technology use across the United States. He's been featured in Mishbaka Magazine, you know, over the last few months. >> They don't let anyone on that magazine. >> Thank you very much. Thank you for the beautiful welcome. Thank you, cousin. I say now cousinari and Rabbi Garfield, it's a pleasure and an honor to be on this podcast. >> All right, before we before we uh dive into the the technological aspects, I'd just love to know about how you got to project trust, what your background is that relates to that and like how this project >> question. So I was I started my career as a network administrator in in the real estate world. I worked for a real estate company for 10 years. After that I worked for art scromis for five years in the IT technology departments. During that time was the beginning was when sepha started in city field and the world of technology connecting with homes and awareness started. I was very involved in in in organizations around helping them advise and facilitate filtering and technology coming from a technology perspective dealing with all this. I saw there was a missing piece to the whole world out there of really looking at each person and really saying to them not you're yes you're modern you're from here you're from there who are you and what are your needs and I saw that when I started helping a few people here and there it was really working I said to myself wow there's something going on over here first there was a massive is for me just seeing how you could just help someone. A lot of people don't even know the basics of what is a computer. You know, the famous joke is, you know, my coffee cup holder broke, but really it was the CDROM casing that came out of the computer. So, people didn't even know that what these things were for. And you're laughing. That's what was 25 years ago. And now my kids have this tiny USB and this and not even a tiny it looks like your fingernail. They have colder on there and parents didn't even know. And what I hear a lot for parents is I'm naive. I'm stupid. I don't know anything. So just let them have everything they want. And I said no. Let's figuratively hold your hands. Let's make you comfortable as a parent. Let's give you resources. Let's give you a place to say shamikum. Is this okay? Is this bad? Now, let's get into who's your child, what do they need? And how we get I'll give you an example. I speak to schools a lot and they say, "We're going to make a rule this week. No Tik Tok, no social media." I said, "Why are you doing that?" They said, "What do you mean?" I said, ' Because if one kid is into movies and one kid is into social media, another kid is into texting, you miss the boat because now you're not fixing the problem. You're only fixing the big name problem, but every other kid is not getting the help they need. But if you say to a kid, tell me what you are ready to do today. Who are you? I'm ready today to get rid of whatever my movies. >> But that's an 18-year-old. That's not an 11y old, right? But that's not an 11year-old or 12y old. >> Yes. >> It's you're not same conversation. you you you have to talk a drop differently to a 11-year-old, a 14-year-old, and an 18-year-old. But the crux, the meat and potatoes of that conversation is pretty much the same because a 14-year-old boy that's on a device is this is has been exposed so much already that he is kamari, an 18-year-old in knowledge and everything else. >> So, let me ask you, let me ask you a question. So to this specific parent who comes to you and he says yeah I have my daughter she babysits she's a regular frumpyakov girl she's a wonderful girl but she babysits she needs a phone when she babysits there's no home phone where she goes so and I have this old iPhone this is the classic story right I have this old iPhone yeah I I I tagged it eight years ago I'll put in a sim what what should I be afraid of >> today boys and girls are way more knowledgeable and less innocent than they were when we were told you number one number two what's available let's if you want to dig into screen time and the issues of screen time okay I was just talking to a makisha last night about technology and he said I said to him screen time if you allow Safari and allow google.com it doesn't enable safe search meaning if you go to schmutz.com you get blocked but if you go to Google and type in a word or a key of words, you could still see the images coming up without going to those websites. If you I know if you like search a name, they'll show you like the top six images of that thing. Okay. Yeah. As part of the So, my daughter won't have a browser on the phone. >> Default by default three browsers on a phone. And I'll use an iPhone because you're mentioning an iPhone. You have Safari that's built in. Siri, what people think it's a separate browser, it's a separate browser. >> Okay, >> that's true. Like if you're driving sometimes >> found this on the web for when people think it's browser. Check it out. >> But look, it comes up. >> Yes, I browser. You and I have similar voice patterns. >> Yeah. if Siri is enabled on your phone that even if you don't have a Safari browser, it will still >> and there's a third thing that a lot of people never heard of >> and that's called an inapp browser. >> Rabbi Strickman, what is an inapp browser? >> So, the easiest example, and I'm not going to give you all the secrets of all the ways to get through the other apps, but let's go into Google Maps and type in because it's an office. I live at Bose and Manhattan is a few minutes away and there's a Google office somewhere in Manhattan. On top it says, you know, number, address, photos, website. When you click on the word website, it's not opening up Safari on your phone. It's opening up a browser within the app. >> Really? So if you block Safari, he's a little bit of a gabara cup, but if you block Safari and not change the level of permissions in your Google searches, you could open up a Google through Google Maps >> and go anywhere. >> Wow. >> Now, why can't I just go into the the iPhone, you know, security settings and block every single website? I can't, I guess, right? If you do that correctly, there are three choices in the settings in screen time. One is called all. You get everything. Number two is limited blocking out. Call it the schmutz. And number three is specific sites. >> Galdic right now. The shil is who's there's no categorial choices over there. It's not saying I don't want shopping. I don't want news. I don't want sports. I don't want both. It's it's saying Apple's decision what is considered okay and not okay >> is Apple your doer. >> So I'm that from parent and I'm going to ask her everything and I'm going to let's say I'm going to do it right and the only thing my daughter's going to have or I just want I want you know is either WhatsApp or texting. What is the potential challenge of a eighth grade 11th grade? I show you're saying you click the third option but then don't whitist anything >> right that says white list only and I put in zero I I ignore it and then the only thing only app she has on the phone is wave is texting and >> block inapp browsers. >> Yeah, but you forgot >> you don't list anything. >> Shutting off Siri explicit and Siri browsing. >> So I shut off Siri. Oh, good. No, you're teaching me. So I shut off Siri and all my daughter has on her phone on the family phone is ways I don't know 246 a music and believe we're not going we're not discussing that now and and WhatsApp let's say and texting what is the concern of WhatsApp and texting I don't mean from a schmutz perspective I mean in general where is my social fear >> I just want to say one thing before we move off of this I think one of the lessons that we're taking is it's pretty complicated to make sure you do all these pieces right you know I think that's one message like don't think it's so push to do what you just said and there are a lot of other avenues like I was just thinking about an Xbox or other act things you have at home that have these browsers that come up left and right and like you would never even know that that it's there. So that's where it's good to talk to someone like Yassi Strickman or TAG or whatever to make sure that you really do know what you're doing, you know, and right not. Okay, now that's stipulated. I think your question comes what about >> now I I took care of the of the inapprop content over inappropriate content and all I have is ways and texting and WhatsApp WhatsApp I'll leave in gray and 246 and notes like like it's basically a souped-up fig. >> Okay. >> What is my concern? Where are the pitfalls there? So number one, there's a saying in Hebrew, meaning once you start going to a smartphone over a fig, you're never going back to a fig. I don't want to hear it that I'll do it when I get there. It's not happening. And once you start with a non-fig, what's your experience with the new fig? I know the new fig supposed to be there a lot of the glitches were fixed. I mean, I don't know if you own I don't know if you own part of the company, but you have a you have an opinion on FIG. >> I think out of out of the new phones that are coming out, >> FIG is one of them is it's it's made the best of of the of the basic phones, >> but it doesn't allow WhatsApp. >> It does not allow WhatsApp, but the my is also it doesn't have an SD card slop, >> so you can't >> so you cannot put pictures. >> Okay. Well, that's actually a valid question as we're talking about what the iPhone has, right? It has the ability to play videos from an external source even if you're not connected to the internet. >> Correct. But you could also you're going to say to me it doesn't have an SD card. Okay. But you know what it has? It has Bluetooth, right? And it also has features within Apple. >> What's wrong with Bluetooth? >> You could share pictures via Bluetooth. Meaning that a friend has a movie or even a movie have to be share within range. Okay. So, two friends, one friend's parents not so careful, >> but a large two hour two hour video you can share through Bluetooth. >> Yes. Because it's right next to each other. >> Wow. >> Or maybe air drop it. Corrop it. Correct. >> Wow. >> So, air drop a file. You're going to see everything available on your phone, but you always have files on your phone. You always have photos and you could earrop a picture. You could Bluetooth a picture or a video and that soar that's really the answer the first answer to your question before we get to Milo readen. There's still a vulnerability to legitimate schmutz without the internet because of the airdrop potential. And the reality is we know that teens are all sharing stuff and once one kid has it, it's very easy. You could protect your kid but you can't protect the whole class, you know, of your kid. So, by definition, there's going to be some sharing potential, >> right? >> Can you block Airdrop or Bluetooth? Is that a setting? >> You can, but again, now I can't listen to use my AirPods. Now I can't connect it to the car. Now I can't connect it to my speakers in my bedroom. So now you're making it. It's not Kushmak. And And >> And the Fig doesn't have that option. The Fig also has Bluetooth. >> Correct. >> So could you share files? >> You could share. I'm gonna tell you where everyone knows this, but there's a moment that us parents, us, us people educating people, you could filter a device. This is where people think you have a filter. I'm kosher. You're not. It's not a babysitting service. And and there needs to be a communication between mommy, Taty, and the child. And and if you can't trust them with Bluetooth, it's like driving a car. You could take a car and go to McDonald's or go to the bis. If you can't trust your kid going to McDonald's or the base medish or to wherever, then he can't get a license >> and they can't drive a car. >> Correct. Yeah. Hold on. Hold on. I Okay, I hear that. However, the whole premise of this conversation was and is could we give our child a phone then not right that it could be safe assuming that there are kids around who are violating it and teaching them the ropes of violation. >> If that's not the case then we could give them an iPhone to some extent. I mean you could say it's too easy. Okay, an iPhone that has a clock and it's a white list but you know it's you can't have your cake and eat it too. >> There are two answers. Number one, there are 40 year olds that act like 2 year olds and there are two year olds that act like 40 year olds. Meaning there are certain people that are mature when they're younger and sometimes maybe one kid could get it at 12, 14 and one could get it at 16 or 20. It's really the relationship of the parent to say number one, let's figure out a mahalik to give you the best for you. for you was one thing. And >> I'm stunned. I have to say I'm stunned that even the kosherest of kosher phones as long as they have Bluetooth capability, you can share with them. >> You have you can share with them fulllength videos that I don't I mean I I have I have Yeshiva in my house that have souped up kosher phones. Kosher kosher kosher. >> And I want to quote Rabbi Shman. It's not they could they are >> right. I'm having a hard time accepting this. I'm having a hard time accepting. >> Size storage on these devices are much smaller. Like a fig. How big so much storage does a fig have? >> All you need is enough to have a movie and then you're in business. >> But a movie is 2 gig. You don't have that much space. >> So you're telling me that a typical Oh, it's so second. So back to business. >> Typical post your phone doesn't have real storage for real length videos. No, because the the amount of storage, most of these basic codes have eight or 16 gig and the operating system is already three or four or 5 gig and the few pictures you have to know >> already on to take up space. >> You don't have them. >> But that's a very very important piece of information to know that if you're giving giving your kid a quote unquote the most kosher smartphone that's out there, a Droid, an iPhone, and you cash it up the wazoo. >> By the way, I'm looking at the fig right now. It has 64 gigabytes or 128. That's new then. Okay. >> So now >> it's a bigger chance. It's a bigger chance. But they don't have SD card slots. >> But I think they, if I remember correctly, the FIG themselves just to, you know, they blocked the feature to receive. They could only send out. I'm almost positive. >> Oh. >> Okay. That's a big that's a big What about the other kosher phones? >> The Kaioera does. >> Right. those >> right? But like but the point is that if you have a smartphone, a phone with a lot of of gigabyte, then you are with all the cash in the world giving your child a glorified screen for lack of a better word, right? >> Correct. >> That really just bring in whatever they want and you know could be shur but I want to change the topic just for a second in the five minutes that we have. So let's leave the world of inappropriate content and go to the world of because one of the things to deal with is cyber bullying, right? and the world of texting and WhatsApp and I think our world social media is not you know whether the the Tik Tok and the Instagram the Facebook I think we've won that battle by and large our audience what should I be afraid of if my daughter just has texting or my son just has texting what could I look out for >> number one in an average chat let's say a group text not every person in that group you know so if you're in school and someone comes over to you. If you're in fourth grade or third grade, you're younger grades that someone comes over to you and gives you a shoulder or says something and you may be upset, the Reb will come over, say, "I'm sorry." And by lunchtime, you're playing ball together. If you're on a chat, that never goes away. Never goes away. It's there forever. Okay? It's there forever. And what we need to realize here is that you don't know every person there and people know you from the information on the conversation. So realize that you might be you know it might be a funny funny pictures, funny stories going on in schools these shas it may be funny stuff going through the conversations but if you say that person is mean because he said this I don't know that person. I see him at a pizza shop two weeks later. I think he's a mean person. >> Right. And by the way, the it stays forever. I've gotten phone calls as a camp director from people saying and from both both my my my caps that I wear things happened on chats with this child, that child that you should be aware of that the kid said it as a joke and maybe that even erased it. But the the nitkus so to speak of these chats is something that again when you're little and you don't realize consequences. You're just making a joke not realizing that someone's going to screenshot that and there's going to be a footprint of you a digital footprint. And these are things that as parents just have to realize as as said it's not about usering necessarily. It's being aware of the reality of starting your child down a path that we're all on. Listen, we all have phones, but and when they're at a young age and they're not mature enough, they make decisions that they end up regretting tremendously that it's almost our fault for giving them that that pathway. McGar, do you have any closing remarks? >> This is really interesting. It reminds me how complicated it is and that it's something that requires, you know, reflection, thought like everything in parenting. And I really appreciate your attitude of not being judgmental and saying, you know, we just have to work it through. I find it fascinating that we have to end end up relying on our children anyway to a large degree and self-p policing, which is really interesting to me. I didn't think about that. So that's really something to take away. And I wonder if you've done any work with that or who's doing that education. Is there any, you know, we have our Lushianhara curriculum, we have our bullying curriculum, we have our social skills curriculum. I don't know that we yet have a focused curriculum for children about self-p policing. >> So I just to correct restrict before he speaks I have a degree in digital citizenship if you will. I went to a course when I was a rebby by Ellie Shapiro and uh Melman and I used to give classes to the middle school in YBH about technology. So it's out there. Y'all see Strickman does that all the time. >> So what is that meaning not for yours? >> Oh tell us. It's going to sound funny. The basics of a computer for parents, the basics of Wi-Fi, the basics of a smartphone, not some if everyone remembers the the the yellow the dummy series, you know, the dummy series. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to make that that simple, too, because before you become a surgeon, you got to go to regular college and take regular courses. And before you become a parent and saying is this mut is that user >> where is the power button where is the setting for the sound and you're laughing but if you don't know the basics and you're relying on your kids they are going to go behind your back sitting within dollar anonymous of you >> right 100%. And what you as a parent need to know is the basis where to look and where to and if we could do this as a group and saying yes you might be technical you may not be technical I know better than you you know better than me no problem let's start the conversation sea male how are you >> thank you so much for joining us this is really great to have you and we appreciate your work well even though we like live in this space and like have heard so many different speeches about this topic I feel Like that was very enlightening to me and I hope our >> I am embarrassed to say it was much more educational personally than I was hoping it would be. >> Yeah. Like if we don't know what we're doing, oh my gosh, we're in trouble, right? >> I just think there are two separate lanes that we have to travel at the same time. And one is the inappropriate content, you know, the or the exposure to to inappropriate whether it's and things along those lines. And then there's just using technology in a safe way. Whether it's bullying, whether it's recognizing that what you say could be copied and pasted, right? There's two angles. And then there's what we started with is the fact that your kid has a phone just gives him or her a sense of independence that we don't necessarily think is the safest for them. These are big issues that parents have to navigate. >> Yeah, 100%. And having people around the resources of TAG and of of Rabbi Strickman are really extremely helpful. Thank you again to all of our listeners. We love getting the feedback that people are sending to our email, the learning [email protected]. We love the questions, the comments, the discussions. So, we look forward to hearing from you. Always remember you could share our podcast with others that might find it interesting because sharing is caring. And I'm looking forward to our continued conversation. Thank you so much.