Eps 7. The Baal Teshuva

Did you know that the forgotten founder of Zionism went on to play a leading role in a good Israel or that Rafkabski was responsible for the continued presence of the Muslim wack on Harabas? It turns out that the margins of history tell the real story. Behind the Times dives into the big concepts and overlooked moments that carry vast meaning all through the lens of Torah and rabbitic thought. This is Jewish history like you've never heard it before. Behind the times with Rabbi Ephran Zalma Galinski and Gdalia Gutag. It was in a good session sometime in the 1920s. The famous Dr. The Nusam Birmam whose Chuva journey from Zionist founder and secular ideologue back to Torah and recently shaken the Jewish world finished speaking about saving the Jewish people. But not everyone agreed with his approach. A distinguished D from Eastern Europe had a podium and was railing against the machinations of secular Jews who were destroying the Jewish people. Alu only a fifth of the Jewish people left Egypt, he thundered, meaning that the majority were beyond redemption. When he finished, Nosen Birmam imposing with his long whitening beard asked again for the floor. There in the aguras Israel meeting, he shocked the assembled with his words. "Have you ever eaten on Yung Kippa?" he asked the Rav who just spoken. White-faced, the target of his question, didn't know how to respond. "Have you ever eaten on Yung Kippa? Because I have, and here I am." The point echoed in the room. Secular Jews weren't beyond the pale because if Nosam Buram could find his way home, so could anyone. That story Ra Fry Galinski was told to me by no other than Gulaka whose father was very close to Nasim. Did you ever hear him say that one? I never heard that story. But he probably heard a lot of things from his father who lived through those years in a I think his father was an Aura activist. He was aass of the Imraz who was one of the founders of of >> I didn't know that it was a Gassid. >> Yeah. >> And Rabbi Greak's father. So Rabbi Gri when he said this I'm not sure it's said at the same time or separately to me. I had a number of conversations with him said we had a a piercing definition of Nsen Burma and his role. And I think that really goes with that story whether he said them together or not. He said no birman was the ainu of the modern era. He said the man who smashed every secular idol of the modern Jewish time. The man who found Zionism, broke with it, moved to Yiddishism as we saw in the last episode and broke with it. finally arrived to play a part on the stage of the great orthodox revival that was a good which is exactly where this interaction going back to what you mentioned uh in the last episode that's some writer pointed out that binar was erratic right and I think that the biggest proof against his his claim against Nas Bernbal is the fact that once he found Yiddish kite he never left it stayed strong in his Yiddish guide he was He's powerful in pointing, you know, areas that we need to be improving in our Yiddish kite and in our outreach, but the fact was that he remained steadfast in his amuna and until the end. And so let's give those a time frame because recalling what we said in the previous episode was that he was born in 1864. His chuva, which we're about to unpack, happened around time the first world war. is 50 years into his >> it's before the first world war because it's that we're going to talk about later he met him already as a known baluva during the first world war so it happened before so basically around his you know around 50 years old just before and then his involvement afterwards was with a good we're going to see so let's just not jump the gun just to give people an idea where we're heading in this particular episode and the this particular episode is I think we're just calling it the Balchuva because that's direct quote from someone's assessment at the time. He was the paramount Balchuva, the one who was the precursor, the forerunner of the modern Baluva movement. And in this episode, I want to unpack how his Chuva unfolded and secondly the impact of his change because this was a massively influential person and we'll just get a sense of that by the number of kind of that jaw-dropping all over Eastern western Europe and beyond as well. And thirdly, his legacy in the from world and what he went on to do. And I think those are important things because there is a legacy. And let just define that for ourselves. If you would allow me just a one sentence of introduction is that you know we tend to measure someone's success and his impact how many baluva came in his wake right how did how many balas did ourior create afterwards and >> so regarding nothing I don't know if we have any you know up to date >> well there was none care of spreadsheet movement >> no pure reports either right >> correct >> so however one thing is very clear is that until he arrived on the scene. So the spokesman or spokesman's or in the plural of Agurus were all you know East European and uh or you had Rabyakov Rosen from the Western Europe but the fact that you had someone there who was you know really educated and as a doctorate as you said and and a famous statesman beforehand and he he moved sides. So besides the ballet that he created, right? And we don't know how many >> he legitimized it. >> Exactly. That's what he did. He he gave like the the strength to to withstand. And you have to understand at that time I hope we're not diverging but you have to understand that the Zionist movement at that time reached a decision and this is all clear in Herzel's writings and in the protocols of the Zionist movement that they decided besides for their attempts and efforts to settle they went on another mission called kibushilot. You ever heard that that term before? Conquering the organized killer structure. >> They realized they realized that in order for them to really be the representative of Judaism in the world to claim the land, right, they would need two things. They need like the funding, right? The and the public support of East European jury which was mainly from >> Yeah. >> Right. And they had this systematic approach to take over the funds and the organizational activities of East European jury. >> In other words, to become the indisputed representatives of the Jewish people. >> Exactly. That they did by taking over their kahilis in East Europe. >> It reminds me of I think there's an organization in America, the conference of presidents. So the congress of presidents who was set up in after I think after the second world war when the American government I forget which leader said posed the question he was getting bombarded from all sorts of Jewish groups all sorts of directions he said who speaks for the Jews and he said decide amongst yourselves and then come to you organized with one voice in other words that was the question then they knew if they could speak for the Jews in order to speak for the Jews it wasn't just enough to take over what went over in Palestine as it was then they also as you say had to kibushil to conquer and to take over a coup. And you have people who have this tendency to to be to be more modern. Even though they're Froom, they're still F, right? And you have a spokesman who's like representing the Golo Seed, right? And opposite them, you have the modern Zionist thinkers and speakers. It's a it's like a lost battle with the Jews in between those who are like leaning towards modernity. >> The Kashivas is all over there. The leadership is all over. and NS Bernb >> he was too big to ignore. It was too central a player to say, "Well, sit at the back of the, you know, just sit at the back or >> no, for for the Jews themselves. They felt that there's someone here articulate, educated, right, who's backing the gurus's policies." >> Correct. And that was because of his cha journey, which let's talk about that now. I think it's fair to say look the kur organization the balu movement today is a fact of Jewish life has been so long established that in fact the f community wouldn't even know it's like it's just you know they have the yeshivas and you have the basakos and you have the k movement it's just kind of another arm of the f establishment and we've talked actually a couple of episodes ago about the you know the rise of the chu movement etc but nasam existed long before any of this his chuva and important to say his chuva was so sincere and shocking to his contemporaries that they called him the balcha, the balcha. It was just unprecedented. What was unprecedented was that he went from the enlightened west to the benited backward east. He went against the flow. No one was doing that. That was almost unheard of. His cho was a process not an overnight decision. And >> you mentioned that someone called him the avo. That was rabbac or au because he smashed all the I think it's more than that because it's the say about that right >> I thought you were going to say the other thing >> he came from inside there was no one who was of him >> I mean you're going to talk in a little bit about the people who taught him but as you say >> but it's a different stage in his cha so how did this happen is actually very interesting he himself wrote there's bits and pieces we can piece it together part of it the first very interesting memory of my great-grandfather. His oldest son was professor Schlam Asha Bernbam Solomon Burbam and who became Balchuva with his father. He said when he was older he looked back and he remembered this scene from when Nas Mirram was a relatively young man. He said that no mir they were living in Vienna on some thirdf flooror apartment and they looked down and there there's a peasant coming along with his cart and in the cart had his whole family and all his worldly goods piled high and trundling down the street and they probably hit a pothole and the whole thing upended fell on the floor. You know this man's life was there rolling back in the gutter of Vienna and Austin muses to himself. He said something along the lines of if there is a god god if you exist how could you allow this to happen now this was years before ibim balcha but my great-grandfather remembered his father nos saying this and he writes again my great-grandfather writes that this was a very odd statement for somebody who was a self-professed atheist so that's there was clearly I think it's clear to say there was a process god if you exist well if you don't exist there was this conversation with this kind of you know this god who may or may not exist. So, so clearly there was a process going on. But I think that Nasim alludes this and he writes this in a couple in one or two places. There was the realization of God's existence came to him in stages. We mentioned in the last episode his encounter he was on the ship going 1908 to America still forum Yiddish phase. We talked about that as his second phase. So his encounter with the forces of nature of the sea that moved something in him >> and he said he wrote the first sensation of the master of the universe was awoken in me as I was traveling across the ocean he wrote and obviously we've referenced and re-referenced the even recently the words of the kazin ish in talking about this you know if a person in fact two episodes ago which was when we talked about the you know a person chuva the process of chuva and whether that happens through tragedy and and things like this and you said and you remarked that based on the Kazunish the key ingredient is this openness this reflectiveness that can come about when someone has the time and the you know is free of the distraction enough to contemplate the world and to let it talk to him and in fact I have in my notes here somewhere probably struggle to find it he says very clearly that in one of his post chuva works his amhashem where he talks about it came originally written in German as gutters folk right and he writes there that I never looked for God and therefore I didn't need to find him. It occurred to me suddenly. And that's all he says there. But he's referring to this moment where he had this sense of where he's where and he said in 1908 it came and then it left. It left because we have to understand Nasamir was battling this incredible weight of materialism. He had assumed this. He underwent this transition as a teenager from someone who was open to belief in God as he himself right to a bit materialistic viewpoint of the world in which he didn't believe in which he said later he was a total atheist. He was battling with that. The materialism didn't leave him all at once. 1908 came and went and then it would left her a few years later. >> His second revelation y said was doing a lecture at Congress. >> Yes. I believe that was the one who recorded that was a man who went on to become Israel's president. president second president I think >> yes and he writes that he saw this himself I went to see the famous Zionist Dr. Bram talk it was after 1910 or something something around there in St. Petersburg. Okay, so you can imagine he's a famous lecturer, these paragrinations up and down Europe to speak and to lecture and to motivate and he was speaking about something else Zionism at least that was presumably the topic. So he clearly was still playing around with these ideas and after he said a remarkable thing after he finished Dr. sit down and then gets up and said something to the effect of can I speak again and he claps out on the table and he says I've realized that God exists and the Torah is true and that we have to follow it and that was the moment says this is the moment that he recognized that I've had to change suddenly and he never looked back as you say he never looked back this was not an erratic person I'm sorry to belabor the point >> that works well with the timeline you're saying that that happened 1910 and by 1917 he was already a full-fledged Baltuva, not East European Yid, but a full Bouva. So, it happened probably right before World War I. >> Yeah. And it seems to have been a process in which this thing years before in which he's looking down at the peasant cart because saying to God, if you exist, you know, and then you have this thing in which they felt the closeness of God and then you had this encounter in St. Petersburg. So, then it's obviously a process. Uh the sea thing by the way it's Rabbi Guilac who said we know that the sea played a part in this because I think we said in the first episode that he would say to descendants please read after Yona because Yona's experience revelation happened at sea but Rabbi Gurulak again this is this is Rabbi Gulak's Ilishmas to hear the great Reb of Mirman be quoted he said interesting thing that um when the Nazis rose in 1933 Naman moved to the seaside town again in Holland and as Rabbi Gulak's father was walked with him along the beach. Okay, this is he sat down tears came to Nathan Bram's eyes and he began to speak about his chuva, right? In other words, the sea reminded him of it and so that was you know you have to understand I think we we see a great fiery prophetic soul of anyone who reads any of his writings quite difficult to get through. So that that's where it happened. >> By the way Gilac also had his sea moment. I don't know if you ever heard this from him. No, >> he would tear up when he would say this. If you know Rabbi Gilak's history, he was a child of 5 years old taking care of a younger child, 3 years old when they crossed the border alone. Sounds like your Shami's Shami kids standard practice the 5-year-old baby sits. >> But he was he was taking care of his three three-year-old sibling. Yeah. >> And they cross the border alone into Switzerland. And he describes when they come to Saul, he describes the first sighting of Yafo, whatever it was. >> And he says like the whole boat would just burst out crying. You know, it was the we had that same sensitivity. It's the same. Correct. We're just as lucky to be here. >> Abilinsky. Let's hear a bit about who the influences were because I know I just know some names. One of them was a young of Mosha Lao, the father of former Israeli chief rabbi lao. And I've seen this, you know, in in the Birmam archives in Toronto family archives. Huge correspondence. You see there this rabbitical candidate. He wrote this Moshla who was a first cousin of Ramir Shapiro took over for him as Robert Pikov and he wrote as a candidate Rabani. You can see in his headed note paper rabbitical candidate whatever it meant. corresponding with Nathan M. There's many others as well, but there was one major influence, >> right? So, I'm going to focus on one of them, but I just want to I want to point out one very important nuda and I think every person listening to this podcast will come up with the following question and Nathan Bernban himself relates to this question and that is, you know, we see his his life story and he said, you know, I have a perfect explanation. He was kicked out of the Zionist move, right? And he found a new job in Agura Cisro. So maybe his whole truer process was just a means to find rebound from >> to find a new job, right? And Nathan Binban himself mentioned the this thought that people thought about. Oh yeah. >> Yeah. And I want to tell you one thing when you read how he evolved like his cha process evolved it's totally impossible because he couldn't have dreamt how he would become at the end the secretary general of of Agurus at that at that >> he wasn't in search of a stellar >> not at all no it couldn't have happened because in in normal way it couldn't have happened so he became a balta on his own like we said before right the initial inspiration came by himself self and he started to write extensively yeah >> about Yiddish about his plans for amate like you said before and he had he had demands from orthodoxy that they're not doing enough macar you know to be like light for other Eden but something happened during this period which changed the course of his life okay and I don't know if anyone could have planned this out and Nathan Bimban himself said it was that this happened so what happens is there was a famous reb in Europe. I don't know if people will me know his name. He's his nickname is the ava. Okay. The ais of vishnit. So today if you have I don't know how many vishnitis we have today throughout the world but they all stem from the ais of vishnit. He's the father of the immacul and the grandfather of visions and all the other visiones that you know >> don't forget London >> and London right so all of them come from the aasis his court was established later on in I hope I'm pronouncing this right godine okay >> excuse me if we have any of the you can write in and correct us a horrible mangling of >> that's where his court was established at a certain kufa And he had an a nephew by the name of Abuvia Horovitz. >> So that makes him a cousin of the Imm. >> Exactly. Okay. >> First cousin, right? >> So Horovitz himself had an interesting life story. At a certain period, you just mentioned Ah Shapi a few minutes ago. Shapi, he left the town of Sanuk to become the RV of Lublin. I think I think that was his last stage where he went to Lublin. and Opturovitz took over his position at a certain point. He was also one of the heads of Byakov and he traveled to fundra for them and he did a lot of things a hush of a person. Now was captivated by Nassen Bernbam's writing at a time where the normal average from Jew >> the writings post Chuva >> post Chuva right and he's very inspired by them and at that time no one knew about him inside like the F orthodoxy no one knew about him >> because he's had his revolution at home as you said he'd cooked up his own revolution he decided on his own >> right >> but he was very inspired by the new life that he brought into Yiddish. >> Yeah. >> Which is something that sometimes you have to have someone from >> outside something differently. >> Right. If I can say just one that I so it says that Rabenu when he was trying to convince Israel to stay with them in the midbar he says right so the says the Nissim that were done to us you saw with your eyes. So said what is he saying over here? So he says that the midbar was so accustomed to the nissim they didn't realize the you understand they had someone from the outside to open up our eyes to the right gave us a whole like description of the and all that any case so was captivated by the by these new writings okay and again no one knew about him in the from world and if anything they suspected so there are stories that carries around a picture of Nassen Beer and Bam in his bag, whatever it was, and someone discovers it in the Avisor's court in Visionets and >> in his talis bag. >> In whatever talis bag made of half a cow >> and they go to snitch the avisy soil that he's >> a mascul in his >> no that he's walking around with a picture of Herzel. >> Oh, that correct. >> He looked like Herzel. >> Well, he looked >> the long black beard know the difference. >> He's a beam. My my family be mams. He looked like a beer man, but he was he was Yeah. >> Blackbeard. >> No, no, frock coat, you know, like V Vienna of the, you know, late 19th century, >> right? So anyway, they snitched on him and the obviously so knew who his nephew was and he calmed things down. I mean, he was fine with that. And then comes a certain point which is during World War I where decides that he has to visit Nathan Bernba. Okay, this doesn't mean that Obto Harvitz was willing to believe or accept anything Nathan Bernam says. He had his suspicions like any from East European Jew would have. And it's a fascinating story. He comes to Vienna and he describes the terrible matzah there of the Jewish refugees on the streets. It was first world war and he said there were people who were rich rich Jews and they he saw them on the street just begging for money to just to eat and it was a terrible matzu and he says he's pushing his way through the crowds. He reaches this building and he knew already that Dr. Nathan Bernbra got a job through the Zionist movement uh to archive the situations of the Jews at that time. He was in charge of the archive of the Zionist movement and he goes into this building and he's looking around and I remember I told you the story in the last episode that these German Jews are looking at him say ah you're looking for your friend in quotation marks and says go down the hallway and you'll find his door and he goes down the hallway and he sees the sign on the door Dr. Nathan Bernba and he knocks and he invites him in and he was so in awe at that time already he had a long white beard and look like very impressive and he was so in awe of Tuvia he couldn't get a word out of his mouth he just sat there in silent and Nathan Bernbomb wanted to you know why did you come what did you come for what do you want and nothing worked he couldn't talk and then he I don't know how he sensed that there up to Horovitz come from Ruptitza dynasty. He was an enemy which is where death and nan bean came from right so he starts to smoo with him about about ruptitz okay and that's what opened him up and that's how their kesher started between them and they carried on a very long correspondence after and the correspondence is surprising because today when a balta comes to you so you know we're a custom we welcome him in open arms and we just you know caravan and all that. But Raptivia Harvitz carries on a very lengthy correspondence Dr. Nathan Bal and he's asking him one by one his views on the yud gimlik. >> In other words, you can't just walk in the door and say I'm about >> exactly >> you got to pass the test. What do you believe? and he reaches the conclusion that not only were his answers appropriate to the answers of Orthodox Jew, they were more inspiring than the standard Orthodox Jew. And that's when he decided then he accepted nothing as a as an authentic baluva being a very influential member of he is the one who makes the connection with who it doesn't say I didn't find that but what I did find was that nathan bbam tells him this is pure hashkah bratus because nathan bram himself wanted bachas back to east European jury and the doors were closed for him and tu harvitz is the one who opened the doors for him. This is a major protest of and to understand that this led to the from Orthodoxy in Eastern Europe gaining a mouthpiece which they couldn't have dreamt of. I think let's take that further by by just getting a sense of what is some of his you mentioned his writings and we've mentioned bits and pieces along but his writings after he becomes vulture he doesn't stop in fact he just continues full steam ahead and he adopts a passionate and sometimes bitter tone against the takeover of the Jewish people by a minority and he he actually goes through the meth you know what he says he says the observant Jews those who want the the Messiah are 4 to one greater numbers than nobody. He goes through, he actually mentions the spharadim as well and he says four to one. How dare this minority take over and he says look what how they look down on on on us the the Jews. He says like this and this is something he wrote in a famous essay published in Zurich in 1919. This essay was called in Yiddesh was called in golus by the Eden right in you know in the Jewish golus and it's a piercing critique of the takeover of the coup staged by the secular movement over the corpus of the Jewish people which by definition is an amateur and am hashem >> as I explained before the way they did it is what they took the goal of and they used that to take over yeah and he says like on the day that the idea appeared in the minds of the Jews that the light shines in foreign quarters and that in our camp there is darkness that therefore we must bring in light to the darkness on that day our exile started among our fellow Jews that's what he writes in this essay very famous by the way we find it his it was this became such a you know standard phrasiology in the auda world that after the war the famous son-in-law The Emirs, the great Gera political activist Lavine, who was an Israeli government minister in the early years >> only the first Knesset >> first right >> was part of the government only in the first >> first >> until there was they were not part of the >> so very very influential and he says he talks he quotes in I was just reading in one of the newspapers and one of the archives in which he's talking about attacks on religious jewelry and he quotes this thing he just says that's what Dr. Nathan Bernbam meant by saying it was galut in you know >> I never knew that he was the one who coined that term. >> It was bbam in gayen and that rings true today. There are those who would if you took this phrase today there are many who would agree that this is the terrible you know what you see the militant secularism being deployed against terror ideas regularly in this country. There are many who would say oh that's what yes we've come we've got our own country but there's a goal going on over here okay so I think I wonder what not would say would have to say on that but he certainly felt that when you had the overwhelming takeover secular takeover of the Jewish communities and the crushing of the traditional architecture and there's another thing I think also which is to get a bit of crucial bit of context about his chuva I've often thought we talk about the chuva movement the closest parallel you could find to the chop shock caused to the enlightened Jewish leadership, the enlightened western European Jews of Chuva. You'd have the only parallel you could find is probably the Chuva of Uri Zohar because Uri Zohar was in a time when the celebrities were were celebrities you know and not intellectuals but Nelson M was a time lived in a time when you can find old postcards online. People used to send Rashana postcard to each other with his picture. He was a Jewish celebrity. He was an intellectual and and Jewish leader and that man slammed the door and said as Rabbi Gri said he smashed those idols that caused tremendous shock. I think the closest parallel is this cultural earthquake that Urizah had triggered in the 70s with this chuva >> 100%. But I think the next stage would be his entrance to Tagur as well. I think that one other just just to get a an idea of who he was dealing with, how influential he was and how others saw him, another story from Robert Gulak and we know this rabbit because Rabbi Gulak what he did he sometime in the 70s and 80s he would take out adverts in the secular Israeli papers full page adverts in which he would write a column about different people often about NS Birmman. The story that Rabbi Gri told in one of those columns was of the Russian Zionist leader very famous manushkin those who knows in >> he was one person who encountered Nam Bir different stages of his metamorphosis in 1891 he came through Vienna and he made his pilgrimage to the famous Zionist leader Dr. Nam Burman Nathan Buram after they finished talking Osushkin goes along and he says to Nelson Buram you know can you direct me to a kosher restaurant so buram walked atkin there and when this when his guest when the man said whenkin said will you join me inside he says no I won't eat in such a place don't eat kosha right I don't know it was like a faicur maybe just didn't like it you know >> by the way himself called coined himself meaning I was I was a >> right so he was maybe he just didn't like the food anyway that's the charitable explanation many years later comes through Vienna again now and he meets Nman who's now and it reminds him of the last time they met and what had happened in other words what do you mean the biging figure you wouldn't eat in a kosher restaurant before says to him you uskin have stayed the came. I've changed. I represent the dynamic type of Jew, meaning that what I was yesterday doesn't necessarily dictate what I'm going to be tomorrow and therefore is going to change. But that gives you some idea of just what the again how he was perceived at the time. He was a leading figure whose betrayal he became a renegade from the seculariz movement or the secularism in general and that's how he was written out of history. So our next stage will be that he is chosen for a job in Agura. >> In 1919 he's chosen as the agures first secretary general. Now when you say first it means because the organization was founded a few years earlier in Katovitz but then because the first world war nothing much happened. So in 1919 that's essentially when it gets off the ground Nasam Mirman was then in touch with very great people across the board. The GBA was the immov leader of the movement. There you see loads of correspondence with there in the archives there with who was Rabum Mova who is famous figure in more than more famed in the MRA world today in Mizrai history and he's becoming an activist for a young Agura. Agura was young then >> and he travels to America, >> right, >> to convince the Americans to open up their Aurora Cisor branches which happens at the end >> which is interesting because a few years ago must have been three years ago the Aurus of America did a you know celebrated their centennial I think and 100 years century and the they where does that number come from 2022 1922 to that journey when a famous photo from that journey shows he goes with who's donky and other big rabbon and he is there sitting next to them I mean >> hill I think >> yes and so they're on route to America that's why this picture is taken on behalf of which in other words he had a part in founda in the new world so this was not I think you can see legacy there happening you mentioned the I have to tell you a massage from yesterday fresh off the press okay I'm learning in yeshiva I'm wearing a difficult suga and then I said okay I have to take a break for a few minutes. So I close the garra and I stand up and just to refresh my mind. So I see in front of me in a book from art school written by Jonathan Rosenlum and I open up the book and what do I see in front of me? A picture of Nen Bern. Okay. Yeah. And he writes it was a big fan of writings and he would encourage his to read his writings. Okay. And then I come across the most fascinating quote. Okay. Prepare to be fascinated. This is like the day before I'm supposed to to participate in the podcast. This is what pops into my eyes. Shraafel quoted Ramir Don Plotsky the great Polish RV who said that Nusen Bernb's dyra was comparable to that of anyone he knew. >> Now that is literally stunning not >> to quote Jonathan Burbam a few years ago. Do you know what he said to me? He said Jonathan about your zeta your great-grandfather he was the balchuva who refused to sit at the back of shul >> in other words he's a fresh balchuva sit there who you quot who are you lecturing everyone for what right do you have and the answer was he was a sadic and he was seen to be a sadic but that's an incredible >> that's a quote that's an unbelievable >> quote says quoting the >> as saying that he he has that >> to anyone comparable to anyone that he knew lived in the generation of the >> and now I think I'm just going to throw in this quote from just to provide what could that possibly mean. So in one of the old books I've shown you before my precious stack of pamphlets and little booklets that were original prints of different languages Nosram's work the introduction is by Mosha Shanefeld who was >> yeah famous a goodistas >> famous a goodist and he was you know involved in famous author >> correct >> and he writes something that is so so def I think it's definitive about to understand >> nman but also I think to understand >> you know applicable when you think about it he says like there's the concept cept of gous you talk about going is normally you know you'd normally think of it in the terms of lus and learning he says but it's not just applied to that relegated to that limited to that it can also be to any person who achieves something outstanding in a different area of serving hashem he says nasam was a going in chuva shamefeld writes about he was a going in chuva And that's what great and great people like this like would have seen. He was a person of such purity of heart. You know it's like you say about Yeshua as it says a person who threw aside everything in the search for MS and lived a life of poverty because he was searching for MS that continued right through his life. And that is why you're saying I have to take issue refrain was something you said at the end that he when he became Balchuva he was he stayed on that course to the end of his life. It's true he never went back. In fact he only went forward. He only became more of a balu. And yet he could not take when Jews didn't live up to their own ideal. His own honesty and his own bik this drive for truth was so searing that he couldn't take it. And so he caught he you know he told him often he obviously wasn't a very comfortable person to be around I imagine you know wasn't very clubable as you might >> but not only he inspired and in this nuda I had an argument with Rav Gilak I'm sorry to say who am I like with you know compared to Rav Gilak but Gulak once told me that it was he was sad >> because >> who was sad >> Gilak that he didn't see the pay ravgulak himself didn't feel that there were payrais to be realm's great efforts on re like Yiddish kite in Western Europe or in Eastern Europe that Kufa and I disagree with that because number one Ravulik himself told me that there were many East European Jews from families who moved to Western Europe and to Belgium. He was talking about that Belgium and France and Nusen Bernbound together with another figure who I would like to write one day about. His name was Rab Begon and he was active for three years in Belgium and they organized like Shirim and MVA and Ram Khal for these couples these young couples of Jews who originated fromish background in East Europe and he gave them this new attachment to Yiddish. So number one he brought back families to Yiddishkite which was which is very important that in itself is important but besides that what I found is that all the leaders of the basakov movement Rabbi Leo Tutlander and Rabud Orleene >> were talum of his >> andovitz >> were all associated with basakov were all telmid and they expressed that they were talkedum of his. So imagine like the idea that to create this whole network of schools which saved thousands of Jewish souls and families. >> We're inspired by him. >> We're inspired by Nerb. >> I remember him saying this. He called it mis sal you know of the creme de la creme basically of the goodist young and goodest leadership where his consider himself his talid and as you say that is enormous impact the what he tried to do let's just give it after the agura he never quite left he was never left a gura but he was ceased to be actively involved what he wanted to do was he said let us purify and revive and uplift from the kared world from within okay by what he created a movement called >> the olim. >> The olim. >> I remember I think it was the last episode that we talked about the moushel, right? The mo the mosha the mosha mongrel dialect. So that was if you were confused by the mouselin then you have to also dr translate itify the is the right those who ascenders. He had this he set up this group and there was that was his last stage. which was his last effort and he wrote a pamphlet called the diva olim in which he criticized what he saw as the failures of from jury and he found group founded groups called the im and I think it was meant to be under the umbrella of aguris I'm not sure how that worked and he wanted to have a movement to inspire like I think today he's call it like kira of kim like a youth movement type of thing >> yes and he says the island were to focus and by the way we can't stop mentioning gulakal I remember him sitting there in his office singing singing the song Rahim. I don't know how it goes. I just remember him daseris. I have no idea if Robert Gak had a good but I just remember that the das raim >> the only person in the world who remember that song. >> Yes. I mean it was a link to history and this podcast is preserving it. Out there if you're listening this is it. This is the legacy raim broadly they stood for service of hashem rakonus and care for others as well as outward dignity appropriate for abd's servants >> sounds like a slabotka type of >> they were listen it sounded like look this came from within that's the point of him I think you quoted kazal saying that the garra says that his kidneys become you know overflowing with tyra it came from within and because he was pure he was on fire within in and he says the oil were to be involved in agriculture because it's less less in corrupting than sort of bourgeoa. >> Yeah. He's a whole urban occupation against the modern society and in the chimneys and the noise and the trains and how it distracts. >> I mean this is so typical those who you know understand the literature at the time this was a throwback to some of these absorbed elements along the way. They wanted to live in communities and abroad and the oil would be like the best of mus and der whatever the point was who were those the cream of Poland's young fum intellectuals as you said borin and there was another one those who know my shelter of Alexander Zusha freedman was also another one and we also mentioned over here is the rale kaplan who was the young guy from slabot we've mentioned in the last episode who was the head of the rabbina seminar in Berlin and it was published we know that there's an organization called H DOS which which documented this online in which there was the Musa journal Hanimon which is published in Tels which published this program as well. So we know it had wide it wasn't a mass movement but wherever he went he was able to attract and just about the way he attracted young followers were really passionate about him. So we quote to this man called Volsberger and his quite critical analysis of Nosen Birm he's not a fan and yet he does say some very positive things and he says about him that NSA always remained an outsider he said because he had this focus on aesthetic Judaism that's what he calls it aesthetic Judaism meaning this have to be dignified and etc. He said but he was neither var nor Frankfurt he wasn't rooted in Poland he wasn't talent deets with the old German orthodox he remained himself and yet his influence came from youth leaders he says who followed him like a prophet right and so that kind of sums that up but I think we're going to wind down this episode over here with a few thoughts on his final years so as we said we struggle to pronounce his name we struggle veilantly and managed to at the end to pronounce the name of the place where he was lived at the end of his lifean in Holland. He went there in 1933 and he left Berlin moved to Holland and seemed to be safe and there he published yet another newspaper. We didn't really go into it but he published dozens of newspapers in his life. It was called DEUF the call and he spoke about the growing threat to European juries to go to Israel which was full circle but towards the end of his life there was incredible tributes poured in from everywhere about this person seeing as this Wolfsburg wrote a prophetic people probably like a prophet I think a final word about his legacy his legacy as what was his legacy I've got some thoughts but let's hear from Europe the power yid has within himself to reach the emis. We don't need much. Raoba talks about this. That's what chuva means. Chuva means returning to yourself. What the Torah is trying to do is trying to bring you back to what's already inside you. He's not coming to hoist something that's on top of you. And I think Dr. Nathan Bernburn proves that idea. >> I've got to to agree with you. To me it doesn't really matter whether the secular Zionist movement you know remembers him or not. The Yish movement has gone. I mean this was a man clearly of great force and leadership and vision visionary man. But for me the fact this is what Rabbi Gulch was saying he was a Romainu. He broke all of the all the idols of his time all the isms. He basically collapsed a couple of centuries worth of isms into his own life. threw them all out one after the other. When someone has trailblazed the blazed trail in that way then others can go in their path whether they know it or not. And I think that his life was story was epic by any measure. But what he did was he faced the kind of entire majestic edifice of western and Jewish secularism in its prime in its prime. He declared it. He said that's a house of cards as a major intellectual force in the secular Jewish world. That's what affected the shock waves. He says beginning as a teenager his life that was if I had to look one way this is what as you see I've been on my hobby horse right from the beginning of the last episode essentially. It's only through secular eyes that don't care or don't know about the Torah that you could say he's erratic because there's something so sustained about what he's doing. He's searching for the file core of the Jewish people. When he found it, he was content. And that for me, for that reason alone, Nosamra deserves not this kind of little place on, you know, a side street next to Zisha. He deserves to come in from the dusty side streets of Jewish memory. Beautiful. Thank you for listening to Behind the Times. We appreciate you joining us as we explore the stories and people that shape Jewish history. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with friends. Until next time.