Eps 19. Diplomatic Quest

Did you know that the forgotten founder of Zionism went on to play a leading role in agura Israel or that was responsible for the continued presence of the Muslim wack on Harabas? It turns out that the margins of history tell the real story. Behind the Times dives into the big concepts and overlook moments that carry vast meaning all through the lens of Torah and rabbitic thought. This is Jewish history like you've never heard it before. Behind the times with Rabbi Ephrien Zma Galinski and Gdalia Gutag. In the spring of 1844, I left everything near and dear to me on earth. I left the wife of my youth and six lovely children dearer to me than my natural life and an excellent farm with everything comfortable around me. I left all these in the pursuit of truth and for the sake of truth alone. I had often from my youth asked my soul where is perfect incontestable truth to be found. The answer was it exists everywhere. It is in the heart, in the conscious evidence of existence against which no reasoning can prevail. Still, I was not satisfied. Prayer after prayer and aspiration after aspiration ascended up to God. I knew that he would not deceive me and therefore trusted my all to him and still pursued truth. Truth in the abstract was never developed. I therefore found one key that presented itself clearly to my mind that would infallibly lead me through the door of truth. My dear Reverend Fry Zamagalinski, do I sound like a mid 19th century American wannabe diplomat? Not quite. >> Well, I don't know why. Perhaps there may be a problem with my accent, but that long and passionate and I'd say almost unsettling declaration of faith and search for truth came from one of the most unusual colorful men ever to walk the face of both America and the Holy Land. His name was Water Cresen or as he would later call himself Mik Buaz Israel Benavram. Beautiful introduction of Galia. >> Well, we're not finished. Listen to his listen to this the stuff that he who he was. A Quaker, a religious wanderer and the short-lived American console to Jerusalem. >> Quaker accused to be a shaker. You know what I mean? >> Quaker became well, he did possibly become a shaker, but you're really jumping the gun over here. Over here, let's just finish the laundry. >> I can hold back, but >> let's just finish the laundry list of who water crescent was. a watercross mazram, a Quaker, a religious wanderer, an American console to Jerusalem. In fact, the first for all of eight days. He was a protozionist. >> I want to point out that some even claim that it wasn't even for eight days. >> Okay, we're going to we're getting deeper and deeper into the weeds over here. And eventually, crucially, he became a Gedc who spent the last years of his life living with the Jews of Urusim. About six months ago, I interviewed the US ambassador to Israel who is known as Mike Huckabe. Now, he's already >> for some reason many people make the comparison between him. >> Well, well, many people fry, you're flattering them. I don't think I don't that I am the many people because I've not in fact when I came to prepare for this interview with Mike Huckabe which is obviously very much based a bit about who he is but also about the whole America Israel relationship and the Iran war etc. So I prepared for it. One of the questions I noted was based on a previous visit to that office to interview the previous ambassador. It was a very different type of character. And the office doesn't change and in the corridor, thin narrow corridor leading into the office. And by the way, you're not allowed to photograph the office itself because it would tell people from the outside where the ambassador sits. But in the corridor leading into his office, there are two rows of photos framed kind of photos of the predecessors or the people that the previous incumbents and obviously I think they go back to the first the sort of gray and white in the 1948 the first US ambassador to Israel was a man called James Macdonald who was Truman's ambassador to Israel and then it goes through right to all the names that you recognize. And so I went through and one of the questions I prepared was and in fact I asked him was out of all these people who do you most identify with and that was just kind of a way to open up the deeper dimension and kind of some self-reflection and he gave me a standard answer kind of quite predictable and I said to him actually I think the person you could be most similar to is a man have you ever heard of Ward Cresen and he hadn't heard of Ward Cresen. You were the first person to make the comparison between them >> to him or in general. I don't know. >> I've heard it. Maybe I heard it because of you. Maybe. >> Yeah. It's certainly something that the first thing that occurred to me that here is the first true evangelical to hold the office of America's highest American representative in the Holy Land. The first true evangelical before Mike Huckabe has to be water crescent because as we're going to see he was fire breathing. Now the comparison has to be said Ambassador Huckabe uh undoubtedly you are amongst the vast audience of this podcast if you're listening I was not making the the comparison as to the next stages because he had ward as we're going to see had a very eventful life when he eventually once he took up the position but certainly and this is not a joke there is deeprooted connection which I think we should explore between the Christian Zionism of Mike Huckabe and today's evangelical and what is called the protozionism right the pre- early pre-zionism which is practically the same thing of the American evangelicals of the 19th and early 19th centuries something you're rightly pointing out that all his activities which included establishing agricultural colonies inol was way before the Zionist movement even was founded >> absolutely and it for foreshadows therefore the Christian Zionism of today which was a major part of I think there's various questions. I the truth is this is such an unbelievable story and tale. We've got to cover a lot over here. Let's say there'll be a little bit of talk about various Christian denominations as he goes from, you know, Quaker to Shaker to Hixite to Millerite to who knows what I >> seventh day. >> Oh yes, the Adventist and then the seventh day Adventists and we're going to be discussing obviously some of the US diplomats along. So there's there's even going to be a reference to kitchen design because that is connected as well to this modern day kitchen design. >> And you won't forget there's a hakic debate involved in this. >> There is a major hakic debate which we are we're going to be so correct. We're not just going to be discussing Christian theology. We have some haka as well. But I mean he's we're going to see this as it raises one for me the exploration here is a little bit to redress the record to set the record straight because this man given how erratic he was given how far he went and how he cycled between different beliefs and went through them like other people change a newspaper subscription. He has been accused of being just totally unstable and I think that is not perhaps the judgment that that I would come out with. He was a geredicc and one who lived as such and so we're going to be discussing >> and he must say that that the American court at the end decided that he was stable. >> Yes. Yes. So Gillinsky I think we can set sail across the ocean of this story. Okay, River Fry. The story begins in the year 1798 when Walter Cresen was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to and he gets his name from his parents surname. His father was Elliot Cressen or John Elliot Cresen and his mother's called Mary Ward. So what do they call what do they call parents of Water and Crescent? They call him very imaginatively water crescent, right? And they are crucially Quakers. Now that is a very important thing to understand because but it's a remarkable thing by the way because to quake is literally in Israeli terms we call them khared right and that is how they would they were mocked for this was a Christian sect that started in the 1650s in England they had split off from the church of England and it's a really important thing this whole business to understand the s that's why the basic theology here even without getting into it but the basic awareness of who he was raised as the Quakers were radical They were already a split, right? They were already a split and a and from a split off and a branch from the Church of England, which was itself a break break off in the time of Henry VII a couple of hundred years earlier from the the Catholic Church. So, so the church is it just splinters and splinters, right? Uh >> how big of a split was it when you're talking about the Quakers? Was it like a Yes, they were tinier tiny sect or >> No, no, they were from what I understand it was founded by this guy, I forget his name, very charismatic preacher who actually preached in a place called Pendle. Now, I remember Pendle Pendle is famous for it's not far from Manchester where I grew up and it's not this not likely to be the subject of a behind the times episode ever, but this place in Lancaster, which is the historic county of Manchester, had the Pendle witches. They had witches were burnt there. The last witch burning in England happened there. And I used to go to school on a bus and look, there was another bus that went past that went to Pendle and it was a special bus line and it had on it, you know, painted on the side of it was a witch on a broomstick. So that is what I'm aware of. Claim to fame. Claim to fame. Pendle the Pendle witches have officially made it into a Mishbah podcast. That's not bad going. But anyway, so the point being that the six in the Quakers were a significant sect and they were very much mistreated by the English authorities who didn't like the fact that there was because the Church of England was I think it was the state religion and so they were badly treated and locked up and persecuted. Persecuted is the word I'm actually looking for. >> Can I just diverge a second for something which might be taken as a joke? >> Go for it. Explain. >> We should all judge how funny it is. >> Okay. explain the connection between Quaker Oats, the guy with the black hat and the and the Quakers. Is there any connection? >> Well, I think there is because the Quakers were were kind of back to were famous for certain enterprises. In fact, it was a Quaker very likely who finded it. But there's others things that the Quakers founded. We know that one of the big banks in England or in fact it's a global bank is the Barclays Bank. It was founded by a Quaker. >> They had a branch here in soil as well when I was growing up in soil. >> Barclays back over from the from the you know the present the British presence here. And so the Quakers basically were very industrious. They were very hardworking. They were very they did not they were not showy and because they were not allowed a bit like the Jews they were kept out of the various guilds because they were nonconformist. They wouldn't obey the normal rules of being a Church of England follower and so therefore they were barred from various businesses. So like the Jews they started a bank but it wasn't just that they were involved in many agricultural things and all of these Christian sects therefore had strange imprints on going forward >> their theology are they closer to Zara or more distant from >> I don't know I just know that they were very much from what I understand they were very much they were called by the way the society of friends right sounds a bit happy clappy and newagy and the and the point that they had was that they didn't like a lot of the worship and all the formal form formality. They wanted a person to find the inner light which is really newagy but they were they were that was their belief anyway. So, so what happens is we don't know a lot about early water early water crescent again born 1798 he goes and is apprenticed to learn farming where he's becomes actually a very successful farmer in 1815 when he's 17 and that is how he makes >> this is in America >> in America in Philadelphia he is we see him as you know he is successful in becoming some scale of a of you know getting some good perosera and crucially in 1821 he marries his wife Elizabeth Townsend and through he's going to have six children and this is going to be really at the heart of the what happens to him later because he the shalom bias there is not great as they go in let's say they diverge religiously is fair to say so frime this is I think it's important to say over here that it's so intensely the reason that behind the times has been talking about Christian theology over here is because it's really important to understand the context that it was a time of great religious fer fervor and ferment. And I think it's really hard for us to imagine that like in you know like today's world that that Britain and America could have been so intensely religious but right through the 19th century there were waves of intense religious revivals and this is the Christian religious revival in which the context in which he's operating. So I just want to point out that there was an earlier interest in Yiddish kite in in the United States and I once wrote about this about a visit by someone who is like everyone knows of the right the way he dressed and where he came from and he traveled all around Europe. We don't know if the ever reached United States. We don't have records of that. But we have someone from the same generation was very similar to like his upbringing and his and all that who was called Karal or Karal whatever you want to call him. Yes. >> And he came to America. This is before water crescent time and he made a great hashbah on the intellectuals of >> Christians. I don't know if he probably Christians you know what else did you have at that time but the president of Yale was very close to him >> some wanted to say that the emblem of Yale is I think it's Urum Betum and I think it's some wanted to relate it to him but others argue on it but the fact was that he attended his the sermons and he was very close to him and he held discussions with him and we even have like descriptions of the president of Yale describing these discussions with the just to point out that the interest in Yiddish kite started before water crescent's time. So that's very interesting Asher Buffr because this interest in Yiddishkite is also an interest in the Bible and in scripture in in in general it's so what a fascinating thing it is that a that the Britain which officially always had a state church a church of England right still today right the monarch king Charles is actually the head of the church of England this despite that it is such a secular place today whereas America where there's a separation of church and state is a much more religious place. There's people much more comfortable talking about the Christian on general their faith and and that is the origins in America. It was founded by you know those who came on the Mayflower. They were fleeing religious persecution whether they were Catholic you know whether they were fleeing Catholicism or they fleeing the established church of England. They got to America and they said we actually want to separate church and state to protect religion right because they were religious. And this is in that context you see how easy it is to have these. We're going to see over here the intense religiosity of these people. Ward Crescent was really not unusual in his intense religiosity perhaps in the degree and the where where he's willing to follow his own truth that he was unusual but that is the context. You know that Rav Glock the editor of Mishbah for many years >> for many years like was pushing this idea that it could for the good of Yiddish guy to separate church and state to separate Medina >> and this is by the way I mean it's so I mean it's so so interesting he pushed that and >> he pushed that but the at the end did not agree with him and I think he admitted that the did not agree with him >> I think Lord Jacobitz in England was considered to be you know an outlier in that he also said you know he said he offered I think it was gold mayo or somebody he said why don't you know if we stop pushing shabas observance in public meaning enforcing that would you in return for you adding more ydishkite to the secular Israeli system right I mean he was you know he was >> no were clearly very afraid that the very very strong anti-religious background of the founders of the state would if there would be a separation >> that would be it. It would be >> that would be it. It would be like throwing out every throwing out everything. It was it was too risky to take that that path. >> So So the in that context of of religious fervor in it has to be explained where was this actually coming from. It was across the world. It wasn't just in America. Remember this is the intellectual context is like this that remember in 1815 okay Napoleon loses the battle of Waterloo that ends the Napoleonic wars that have been going on for 25 years old yes or something like that or the re the wars of the French revolution so the idea of French now Napoleon this is a bit of a a tangent but it's related Napoleon hadn't wasn't just a conqueror he was there and he was there to spread certain ideas of the of enlightenment of rationalism and the backlash to Napoleon's you know crusading and conquering drive across Europe the and be beyond Europe really there were the intense backlash against Napoleonism became a backlash against the enlightenment and a return to more mysticism and in turn religion right that was all over the world and and you can track that that was very much A people said and that that that happened happened in England. was as far Russia there was a deep a return a reassertion of old religious and ideas that happened and I'm pretty sure in that context by the way there was the Russian Sars were able to take a grip and to crack down on the Jews right the cantonist decrees etc these were in the decades then in the backlash to this whole idea of enlightenment and modernity so that's the context in which he is about to water crescent he's now let's call let's say by the year he publishes in 1827 7 his first he become you know he's a notable writer of pamphlets and religious tracts he publishes in 1827 his first this is he's 29 years old which is a nice age for publishing thing that you and I can attest and therefore he publishes something called a humble and affectionate address to the select members of the Ebington quarterly meeting which is >> I didn't understand a word of what you just said >> it just sounds like mind-numbingly boring but obviously back then cause an uproar because he wrote I was called of the lord And this is remember this is a local farmer who suddenly feels that he's called by the Lord right to speak out against the whatever it was external things he wrote cannot reach unto the internal nature of the soul and he criticized the Quaker leadership who they were getting too institutional I think it was and he said and he then called come out of Babylon my people and partake not of her iniquities lest ye also be partakers of her plagues right I love this it's just lovely it's just lovely all this Christian type of exaltations. But I think what's very important again to translate all of that into basics what he was doing was he was you know rebelling against and criticizing Quaker mainstream leadership and that shows I think the beginning first evidence of what we saw a streak of what we'd call canos like zealatry of purism or puritinism or wrong word to to be purist purism right meaning it's very clear in when she sayster external things cannot reach into the internal nature of the soul. Okay, he's talking about we need palemus. We need it's the soul that matters. It's not the outside. Now, that's very much in line with Quakerism sounds like but this crucially he's going to take all the way. He's going to take it all the way. He's going to he keeps looking for the essence of things, right? And this is a very important thing. >> A modern day Israel. >> Yes. And at this point, Rafim I think perhaps we can just start raising the question just to bear in mind listeners should bear in mind he is going to water crescent is going to be dismissed by everyone many people as just erratic and unstable but >> I think the sign of him being unstable is only after he converts >> yes that's when it becomes a legal thing but I'm talking in retrospect something just be worth bearing in mind but how many genuine gay right have been dismissed by others as just that just a crazy and so ga or ara in pursuit of the truth is not necessarily a psul a you know disqualification I think we should bear that in mind but we have to realize that especially in those days to become a g was a very difficult process I mean there wasn't today we're accepting many more gay than I think any period in history like uh >> very very interesting that I wonder >> it was always a very process. I mean the infari communities by the way today by the way he water crescent was and that's going to be part of my argument with you later on he was misguire in a sparz >> and that's going to make a problem at the end we >> okay we're going to get let's get going with this cuz I >> what I'm saying is if someone if someone was accepted as a g during that kufa it showed that he really went through a process and therefore for us I'm not talking about the who are criticizing but for us you should realize that they probably wouldn't have accepted someone who was out of his mind. >> Let us go through Fry quickly over here. So, he's got it's just I just flagged it at the beginning, but it isn't it delicious that when he goes he starts leaving behind the Quakers he's suspected of being a shaker, right? And the shakers actually do shake during their prayers during their prayers and they get very into it like this. Again, you know, great preparation for shocking. is they were even more frummer than the Quakers. That's >> correct. >> But I said there was a kitchen, you know, kitchen design point over here and it's true. If one of the modern or one of the styles that is in fashion is they talk, they sell if you go to the kitchen, you ask for a shaker style kitchen, it is a particular it's very simple, smooth lines, it's not ornate and because the shakers even more than the Quakers were about being very no frills. No, no. And so but everything good quality. So shaker style kitchen literally came from the shakers. If you have Quaker oats, right? You have shaker kitchens, right? >> Shaky kitchen. So So anyway, he's now in 1830, he's now 32, publishes this another pamphlet, Babylon the Great is falling in which he basically hits at at the Quakers. And I think we can fast forward another 10 years when he's 42 1840 to a a real turning point when he meets a a man Rabbi Reverend Isaac Lisa who become and through that becomes in interested in Judaism. >> Now many now many listeners who are interested in history of Yiddish in America will probably recognize the name of Isaac Lisa. It's very interesting that he did something which was unconventional at that time that was we know this that one of the things that that orthodox Rabonim were afraid to do were was to lecture in the vernacular right to use like the local today it seems posh to us right correct but for example >> where they by the way they've still remained with this the >> by the way the when he came to America came to Chicago >> he was very angry that Rabon was speaking speaking in English at at the podium like for him that was like that was >> it was just appear so Rab Isaac Lisa or in some places they call him lesser he was one of the first orthodoxim who spoke from the pulpit in English and that's why he had such a following and he translated books of of hala and of Torah thought in English he was like one of the founders of this and he was also one of the founders of the Jewish press because he published something called the accident. It's not like it's not doesn't mean an accident. It's an old well an old word Latin word for the west, right? You had the orient which is the east and then the accident was the west the west what we would call today the western world. So he had for about quarter of a century publication I think it was a monthly and at great length it's actually you can download them on the national library of Israel. They are fascinating. By the way I'll tell you what I found. I'll tell you one absolute historical gem that I found just like if Mishbaka magazine some of you know in a hundred years time if you want to understand current from society you're going to pick up Mishbahha magazine and you're going to look at some of the articles but actually you're going to find a lot of enlightenment from the adverts it's the adverts that tell you a lot so too it's actually the same process the adverts in the accident because they had these they went on for dozens of pages these huge things long essays And it was very they're very interesting to read. I was searching for one of them about Ward Cresen's court case and insanity trial which we're going to get to which was covered in Reverend Isaac Lisa's publication accident. And I found some adverts. Now then they had no pictures or no anything. They were just a few lines of text probably on the back page or inside page. >> Well they advertising. Yeah. I'm glad >> they were all It's fascinating. I wish I had it over here. >> I know. A kosher hotel for pes. Oh, steaks. Steak restaurants. No, listen to this. They were advertising the forerunners to the basia, right? There was like for example, the education institutions. The one that caught my eye was like >> he opened up education in his own living room. >> I didn't know that. So that is why he was obviously this was he was a key figure in this way. So, so for example, long before there was the Makos in America, we talk about the 1860s, we had this the Mrs. Emanuel's, you know, a school for well brought up Jewish, you know, Jewish girls, whatever it was, and it's fascinating. But the gem that I found from about 1863, and I could not believe it, was an advert for the school run by Dr. M. Hirs, son of Rabbi SR Hirs. >> Wow. the school being in Frankfurt right in Germany. >> So what it was like a schnar advertisement? >> No, it wasn't a schnar advertising. It was an ad advertising for pupils p people applying from America. >> From America in this thing from America and it gave two local references to you know to establish the school and the interesting thing is it said I don't know per semester or per year I don't remember 15 pounds sterling. >> Wow. So there in America right what an international this is 1863 right >> school in Frankfurt school now Dr. Mendel Hersh was the son of Rashimal Hersh who ran of Hersh's moisters, >> right? Isn't that fascinating? I knew and I you know what I did with that river? I stuck that on the WhatsApp group which is uh of the uh Ashkanaz you know all over there and people know a lot from there. These are all professional ykers >> and they didn't know about that. >> Nobody had any idea. The best response that I got was someone gave a response explaining why it would have been priced in sterling and not in dollars or or or marks or something. But why would someone send a a student from America to Frank? >> It is fascinating. It is well okay there weren't where could you have gone? He wanted remember that Dr. Reverend Isaac Lisa was is considered to be the father of like modern orthodoxy right and a very close working comparison. He himself was by the way born in Germany. He was from Germany and this style of education you couldn't say go back to Poland and get a Latin and German education there or decent western education. So >> you just mentioned that his background. So I was interested to to find out who his rabbim were. Yes. >> And no one brought this piece of I finally found a Yiddish publication >> who wrote that the Yehuda had a Talmid by the name of Binyam Coen who seemed to be a very public very known God at that time and Isaac Leer was a Talmid of the Nuda. >> Very interesting. So frame I think what's interesting is that water crescent becomes remember he's from Philadelphia Philadelphia and Lisa Reverend Isaac Lisa is a congregation mikvah Israel Mikva Israel from 1829 so he's there in Philadelphia in Philadelphia and he is becoming and he becomes >> also close to another RV called Morai Noah Emmanuel >> Emanuel no yeah so we'll get to him in a minute but the Lisa thing is very interesting because Lisa himself is one of the first of I suppose what we'd recognize from today the orthodox leaders who have ability to you know do get involved in interfaith and urge Christians to support the Jewish people right it's very much something that we recognize today and he is he writes this is Lisa writes a book first of all the Jews and the mosaic law which is which was read widely by Christians as well >> he put out I think the first English American English translation of the Tanakh I didn't know that >> bylica. I'm almost sure. Check that out. >> So, so one of the things that he talks about there is he his belief in the ultimate restoration of the Israelites and the gathering of the exiles, right? And he keeps talking about this and he becomes in 1840 he becomes a very national American Jewish figure leader because that's the year of the you know the the blood label. We talked about the Damascus blood liel in which it involves Adolf Cremier of France and Moses Montifur of England and it causes a wave of outrage across the Western world. Crucially, Lisa leads the reaction Philadelphia and invites Christian ministers to speak from his pulpit about the persecution of the Jews. And whether it's connected straight to this or in general to the uproar, um the State Department lodges the it's the first time in American history that the State Department responds to mistreatment of Jews who are not American citizens. So you can see that this is this kind of what we call pro pro-Jewish protozionist feeling all coming together to urge the American government into action in a way which we're now expl you know I suppose >> Apac apac or look at the Trump government working alongside us with with Iran over here and that that is that I think we have to just because the for the flavor of it I think we can mention what is going on over here that at the time in the 1840s there's even more religious fervor in which there's a guy called William Miller in upstate New York which is probably near the Bangalow colonies of today found something called the Advent Adventist church which which he calculated about 1843 444 is definitely going to be the Messiah and when it doesn't happen it triggers something called the great disappointment which leads to many people founding the seventh day advent adventist church which is still around today but very much you can see again the atmosphere there of the American public in turmoil about or certain sections of it leading to a return to Zion. Remeion before that Mudra Emanuel and he was again in the same period in the 1840s he's urging a return to Zion. He's a person who's a remarkable person because in 1825 he attempts to establish a Jewish refuge in the Niagara River on an island in the Niagara River and he wants to solve the question of the Jews Jewish of anti-semitism by founding something called Ararat. Right. I love that. Right. You going to found a ta taser in the Niagara River. He's very publicly because he's high-profile. He is was an American ambassador to Tunis in North Africa. And he's saying that all the signs are that America is going to be part of the lead leadership, the lead the Christian world in leading the Jewish people back to the land of Israel. And so that very much is the context for the next dramatic stage of Water Crescent's life. River Frame in 1844 in that context of American turmoil. He and O over religion and the arrival of the Messiah. He decides Walder Crescent decides to pick up and move here and actually as he said in as in the opening passage to actually seek the truth over here. There were a couple of important Philadelphiaians including a congressman who recommended him to the state department for the job and he volunteered to do so without being paid which has obviously appealed to them because he was you know is in independent means but the important thing is frame it's one of the shortest assignments on record so you have to simultaneously you have to point out in this point I think this is where he has to leave his wife and children because he's coming to saw Yes. >> And they don't come together with him. >> Correct. >> So that's the first break that he has with his family. >> And it's a cru a crucial thing because that shows the type of man who it's not just a career but it's also some religious dream. >> Within 8 days of this there obviously it causes a lot of an uproar within American diplomatic circles or government circles because he receives a week after he receives his commission. So the secretary, the former secretary of treasur of the treasury writes to to the secretary of state. He says, "The papers have recently announced the appointment of Ward Crescent as console to Jerusalem. This man is the brother of Elliot Crescent, who is much distinguished as a colonizer, but the consul has been laboring under an aberration of mind for many years." So that's the first to refine the first accusation of being unstable. And it says like this, his mania is of the religious species. He was born a Quaker, wants to be a preacher, has gone around the compass from one job to another, sometimes preaching about the church doors and in the streets. Then it says basically he's too extreme for them. His passion is for religious controversy, the letter continued, and no doubt he expects to convert Jews and Muhammadans in the East. But in truth, he is with all a very weak-minded man, and his mind, what there is of it, is quite out of order. His appointment is made of a theme of ridicule by all who know him. So, in other words, this guy's a joke. He's unstable. >> Now, why did I tell you in the beginning of the broadcast that it didn't even last eight days? Yeah. is because the account that I read which is different than what you're going through is that they wrote the letter even before his appointment. It took effect but it didn't reach him until later. That's why the people say that he had it for eight days but in truth he didn't even have it for one day. It was the it was decided against his appointment right right after he received the the initial agreement and he he received the letter only later on. That's interesting. So hold on, can I ask you if you want to break unpleasant news like this to somebody especially someone you think is unstable how do you go about it? What are you going to say? >> I would probably hide the right real reason. >> Right. So how in fact did he did it? Did the receive the letter he received from the secretary of state water crescent received I am instructed by the president to inform you that having reconsidered the proposal to establish a consular at Jerusalem he's of the opinion it's not called for by public service and therefore declines to establish it at present. In other words >> instead of saying you're not good for the job saying sorry there's no job. >> There's no job anymore. Do you think that John Calhoun do you think that the secretary of state actually had told John President John Tyler? I highly doubt it. It was one of these classic ways of saying I was instructed by the president. But crucially what happens is he continues to work as if he is the consulate. >> Correct. See he's a bit of a legend. He makes himself a stamp, fashions a stamp as the console, a fake consul stamp and he uses actually to provide protection as of the American government. And there he gets interesting because he becomes I think for about a year or something this far or this sherad continues and he who's to stop him? I mean you know there's >> you don't have a local police force >> there. What are they going to do? it sends Seal Team Six or the US Rangers in. It's not the type of thing that happens. It's too far away. This is an American. He's got independent means. He just needs to fly a flag and make himself a seal. And he has the letter. He doesn't need to show the letter. He doesn't need to show the, you know, that it's been rescinded in any way. So, we know that other people during that time, Westerners in general, saw him and he was a colorful figure, let's say, to say to say the least. But he is then on the verge of between on the borderlands between Judah and between Christianity in which he's had this long intense journey through and Judaism. And it's in four years after he arrives that he actually becomes a g. Now here's something very very interesting. Someone has raised the possibility. >> Yeah. >> That the story of water crescent actually made it into the what we call the chuva response literature. Okay. What are we referring to? >> Yeah. We're referring to a cha in the written by the >> reb of the of >> right and he was considered to be I'm sorry people who have background because it's the last world recognized g and he was I mean he was if you want just an example you've heard probably that when you want to give him so the first thing the person should do is to find a you ever hear that >> people lied to senator where did that come from >> go >> nowhere it came from nowhere until the bin raised the possibility the bin himself was not sure about this thisra but the Mishnu quotes this the bin and that's how it came it watered you know it filtered account to us. And today many people even though has a few on this but himself was to send one with a and one without a because he had a suffic that maybe without is better but in any case that shows you the sheer power of of the >> correct so in any case so a question reaches the or the story behind the question was that there was a pisk of the Ashkanaz I'm stressing the p of the Ashkanazil member of the bezdon of Ashkanazil was Osher Le the one of the members he wasn't like the major of he was one of the members of the bzinant was there already >> but for some reason the question came to him and the question involved a >> and the question holden it came to him on air of shab just before shabas crucially and he said he didn't have time he writes in chuva he didn't have time to check it out with other people and hence it caused a controversy as you're about to say Right. Right. So the question is that they come to him they said that there is a gerk who went through a brisma and I'm now bringing information that's written in the shila in the >> and he says that he fell sick because of the mil he was very weak weakened state and he could not go through the immediately after the mil. >> Correct. Now the iso. >> So it's the the girus is not a gus until he does. >> Right. >> Now the question is is he entirely not a g >> right >> or is he a okay >> so that's a very delicate balance over here and was of the opinion that he is not considered a Jew at all. >> And oh crucially what's the question? The question is that there's that shabas and he's stuck in lim he's you know he's halfway what is he shabas comes in is he an entire or half a Jew >> right so huskins for him >> that he has to write two letters on shabas and he does so and the next morning this himself tells he was attacked by all the andazon make literally >> and salant also opposed his >> really >> it seems that he started sending letters all over to see if there's anyone's going to that is going to agree with him. >> Yeah. >> So the or interesting says that if you look through his suarees the they're thorough suarees >> meaning there was a basis for basis for our leml's >> however the ar points out that he asked around all the but they didn't and gear and he never had anyone say >> meaning it it made sense in theory but not it but that wasn't the practice >> exactly >> it's quite amazing that the question had never kind of been codified until 1848 >> amazing >> right so I think the sara that he brings over there is that a person who went through miler was already peshme benoya he's not is not a a full-fledged anymore and therefore he wouldn't have that >> yeah okay so that is the discussion about this story now how does that has how does that connect in to our story so someone raised the possibility that the person that we're talking about here that asked the question was our dear border crescent. Now hold on the firstly it's important to say this person's Rabbi Yeria I think Malefki or something he wrote in on about 13 years ago he came up with this thing where because in 2013 they found water crescent's ca on Harasim >> right so we're dropping the gun right so water cresen became a full-fledged Jew and that's why I have a problem with with this suggestion okay he had a he became a full-fledged sardi Jew and he married a sardi woman and he had two kids, a son and a daughter, >> both of whom >> both of whom passed away after he passed away like a few years later and uh >> so no descendants >> there's no descendants today but his caver is his cave was lost for many years and they finally found it in har on haras. So the point is that they when they found it. So this this uh rea water crescent was the mysterious >> g in question in the bin. Why? Because what was mysterious about it was if you read the chlor which is where the lived in Germany 1849 he says okay and then he says he says you asked a question and he quotes the question from a case that came to our hands inesh says what happened was an hoodie had a miler and this non-Jew came midinas maraca. Morocco meaning it sounds like it came from Morocco which is a strange thing. A how many I mean Morocco is an Arab country. It could you know it a lot of people there this have as this as this blog pointed out in 2013 was a lot of people there will have miler in general right but what made it very interesting was the date because if we go back up a bit we see where in Ward Cresen's own writings he wrote this book which I quote which was the dramatic opening passage called key of David and in this book he says like this in Jerusalem my former faith until the day of March 1848 when I became fully satisfied that I could never obtain strength and rest but by doing as Ruth did and saying to her mother-in-law or Naomi the Jewish church right he calls it the Jewish church entreat me not to leave thee for whether thou goest I will go right in short he writes upon the 28th day of March 1848 I was circumcised enter the holy covenant became a Jew when he was 49 years old now that date 28th day of March Chain 48. Do a quick search as this rabbi did and you find that it corresponds exactly to the day of the chuv was of the that this happened as writes. He says, "Right." So he suggested this Rabbi Morocco is America. >> If you just add No, if you add the thing there's Maraka is Amaraka. Right. It's an ingenious suggestion which you have a problem with. >> Exactly. Because number one, this rabbi himself points out that the source that he came from Morocco is not only from the true beigny. I think he writes his others for him who who point out I think from Rob Funkin's cafer right Anuim I think he mentions there a safer that mentions the whole story and he mentions the G was from Morocco and it could be he was based on the biny that's possible could be okay but if there's another source that he came from Morocco it's going to be very unlikely that both places are going to make the same mistake right the second problem I have with it is that all the sources point to the fact that he was working with the sardi bezdon. >> Mhm. >> Water crescent was working with the >> bezdon, right? And he became a Jew, right? And here he's asking a shila dava. >> Well, it says the mirror happened or he said it says the shila happened to of right who was the head the member of the >> which is a different right. Obviously it's a different bezel. >> I mean it's not impossible. >> Yeah, it is possible that he was misguire here and then >> it's like that by the way that's typically Israeli. This is what happens nowadays. You go to Udavin in one place and you ask your in another place. >> Yeah. But you have to understand that time was very small. Okay. They were all concentrated in the old city of >> Yeah. >> It's very I don't know. It seemed weird. He has a very good point regarding the date. >> Yeah. >> That I agree with you 100%. It's very strange. Two gimm, you know, on the same day who were of a particular age because again, if this has been a very young g then perhaps he wouldn't have got ill like in this way. It was, you know, this guy was 48. It was already, you know, >> is there any more of an issue? So you in other words say no, it could. >> No, I'm just raising it down. >> It's not clear. And and you're right, by the way, the picture that we have of water crescent, it's worth looking at for because you see him with this big spar yamla huge like ornate thing. get very covered here in this fight. And this is one of the things I want to say I think to say that we're going to see now as he goes let's jump over to the next stage because he goes back to America as a G and there he just it you know everything just a total pandemonium around him because this is a Quaker shaker hixite whatever they are you know is become a Jew now you're allowed to do many things but one thing you're not allowed to do for as a Christian you can become another denomination but becoming a Jew is just a bit it's penished right so So he becomes what he goes back and he fi finds that to his dis you know he's expecting to be welcomed back into the >> possessions he has possessions >> correct he has he has by then grown children right he has six children and it turns out that what has happened is that his wife has joined the devil because not only she's not a Quaker anymore she's become what is episcopalian which is basically church of England now remember that the Quakers rejected the church of England and he definitely the church of England is bad the Anglican church by the way it's is huge still today all over the world in Africa the Anglican the church of England is very big and so he tries to get people to come to say we we got to have interest people in Jewish settlement in Palestine and he starts publishing in Isaac Lisa's newspaper but really what happens is he is going into a big ambush because his family said his wife and one of the sons moved to have him declared insane and the grand insanity they want the possessions >> they want the possessions but By the way, they don't want a Jewish. They want to disown a Jewish father. He's gone mug. What's so far Jew rocking up there? He's a qu a fine upstanding Quaker. And then he's and then this. So it triggers a celebrity trial, an absolutely sensational trial because the trial and this trial is backed by Walter Cresen's side is taken by obviously Reverend Lisa. But Reverend Lisa, who's a strategic thinker, he understands if we let this charge of insanity ch stand, it's a slur on Jews in America because it means Judaism is a form >> of insanity, >> right? >> So he fights it and they hire a very big trial lawyer, former general, and they call dozens and dozens of witnesses. And one witness by the way is a figure from from Israel who's >> Rabbi Dr. Joseph Yis Schwartz who was a well maybe a word about him. >> So I think that was is cafer was a they called him >> the great tourist. >> The great tourist he traveled from Germany. I think he originated from Germany >> and he traveled all over and he became such a mum in the topography ofol and you know >> I want to explain if you allow me just one one accuda someone who comes to and doesn't understand Arabic >> would at that time would probably not be able to identify where the mcom sagdation were and where the you know different places >> because the Arabs were preserving the >> right so so you had to learn Arabic okay and then you had to make the the connection between the Arabic pronunciation pronunciation to the name of the place in Hebrew and the Tanak. And he did all that and he became for many years he became like the inarit and other things that have to do with her and he said I found it to be perfectly reasonable and the court there was you know this was an academic he was a doctor he was a he was an academic who was a researcher so obviously had a certain amount of standing but one of the other people that they came along with fry was I mean it just sounds so 19th century it sounds pseudoscientific I just love this. Well, look at this in this detail. It says many prominent citizens and this was one of the great records of this case was part of which I should have said before I'm drawing on is by a paper published in the University of Pennsylvania in the 70s by one Frank Fox and he says many prominent citizens including four doctors testified that on the contrary Cressen was perfectly sane and one expert witness was a certain Colonel Brown who testified that the roots of Cresen's hair had none of their abnormalities that were certain indicators of insanity. In other words, this big learned Colonel Brown had investigated hair types and he said, "Well, insane people have certain certain the roots of their hair. I don't know what happens. They go frizzy or something." So, he doesn't have it. The bottom line was the judge said, and this was the crucial thing that he's a he's saying and that religious convictions are not allowed to be taken into account in determining sanity. Right. >> And that was a turning point for religious rights in America. Yes, that was that that that now I just want to point out that there was a stage in the court case where a jury ruled that he was insane. >> What you were quoting from now was they convened another >> correct. The first the family had him declared in insane although there's no record and this was that he was incarcerated in a lunatic asylum that we don't he doesn't mention that. So so clearly didn't happen and he went to went on the >> but it went through two stages. The first stage was that he was convicted as being insane and the second one he was that was removed. >> Yes. So it took a number of years but the point is by 1852 he returns to your lime and he is involved in establishing Walter Cresen now is buo cresen is involved in establishing agricultural colonies. >> One were right outside of usim. He started one of them right outside of usalime. >> Do we know where that was? >> Yes. One second. >> Was it emrim? >> Emry. Right. Right. at that time is outside of now it's in German colony was it called cold called over there and he's married and his children died but he was a fard Jun considered to be a leader of the community and by the way it's not strange that should be the case because a man so full of drive and passion in that way people can move rise to the top and such >> he probably had connections right I'm saying he had connections all >> he was a prominent and successful person in in his life but the American writer Herman Melville who was a famous Moby Dick visit visit Yam in 1857 writes in his journal ward Cresen of Philadelphia an American turned Jew divorced from former wife married a Jews etc sad right that's what his comment is but it's again that this is Frank come comes up with this that it's believed that one of the great Herman Melville wrote an epic poem called Clarel which was a epic po is an enormous poem in which it's centers on the doubts of a of the Victorian age torn between traditional biblical belief and modern rationalism and Homer Melville himself was very much torn between these two things and the central character Nathan in the poem is believed to be the water crescent. So you see this is a man who's making an impact ever and I think we can say that what happens is 8 years after returning to Urusim in 1860 around then he dies water crescent dies and I think it it's which drew a chapter under although his descendants he has descendants from his first marriage right Christian descends from first marriage who I was I attempted to I thought well ahead of this maybe we should try and track some down but the point is I think to to some thoughts on his particular journey and the meaning of it because we know that he was rejected initially by the Urus based in and you could say that you know if I was a member of the Yurushami based in in the 1840s I might very well reject him as well. He's what I was thinking was like sounds like this kind of unstable suspicious character who every so often rocks up today in your is a bit of a you know you're not sure whether that not sure are they genuine are they a missionary >> by the way I don't know how common that was at those days but the fact that he was rejected is following galactic practice >> how many how common it was to attempt to convert >> yes >> because we know by the way missionary activity for anyone who wants to see missionary activity from that period still live today. Go to if you it's go to Kikar Davidka right in Jerusalem up above Gula right and go slightly along Hanovim. >> Yeah >> towards Strauss. >> Yeah. >> Stand with your back to I think it's called the Abram hostel. Right. And look across the road. Okay. You'll see across the road a a there's a compound high walls beautiful big things. And behind you can see clearly the building etched in stone huge of the original whenever the building was built 200 years ago the London Society for Missionizing the Jews it says right that's what it was there was a lot of missionary activity >> now you're talking about the opposite about someone who wanted to become a Jew a western gentile coming to want to become a Jew in the best of I don't know how common that was but in any case the fact that they rejected him that was common practice I don't think that should >> absolutely no not at But what we do know is that Isaac Lisa himself his own testimony. He says like this and this is the man who knew him best in 1863 right three years after his friend's death he writes the following whatever may have been the ex eccentricities of Mr. Crescent. And so, yes, he clearly was >> and we are willing to admit them. He writes, he was a sincere convert to our religion and never wavered to his dying hour in his trust in the one for the glory of whose name it sealed his flesh with a token of the covenant with our father Abraham. I think there can be no greater testament than a person like that. And and the testimony of of also the Frankf Fox writes there in his paper. He says, "But from an anonymous German Jewish traveler who saw him in the 1850s, I once saw the proalite crescent at services." He said, "He is a beautiful manly figure, a face vibrant with life and spirit, especially during his fervent, nearly uncontrolled devotion." And so, Reb, there's a vein of commentary about him that, you know, this was a whack, this was a whack job. This is a nutcase, right? And I think it would be to buy into too much into that propaganda to say no be being from seeing the light following the truth even if it leads you know yes he left his >> and the fact was that he didn't like once he reached that >> once he reached there was stability as well >> right he did not change anymore >> and the point is he left his wife and his kids and I I don't think any I'm not sure any who deals with gear is going to tell you that's a necessarily a good idea although who knows but the Point is that this was a figure who saw long before other people and who was living his own truth but living it long before other people could see that there is a shivat there's a return of amra to Israel and here he is buried in harim for anyone who goes to see >> that was beautiful thank you so much >> thank you so much >> thank you for listening to behind the times we appreciate you joining us as we explor explore the stories and people that shaped Jewish history. 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