Episode 15 Let's Talk Live! (Feat. YOU!)

If you're going to be confrontational with them and fight them and it's a war and it's a battle, keep in mind that you are going into that battle holding a water gun and they're driving a tank. >> And if we hyperfocus on it and throw all the guilt and make it like they're totally unsuccessful because of this one metric, I think we risk throwing out the baby with the bathwater. You are going to have to fill your child up with such and love and self-esteem and confidence and perseverance that then your son or daughter will be able to stand for that. Welcome to the Learning Curve podcast brought to you by Mishbaka Magazine. We're raising children in a changing and challenging world. >> So let's tackle the important issues facing families today. >> I'm Rabbi Rhiel Garfield Manal of Yeshiva Terrais in Houston and I love talking about >> I'm Rabbi Ari Shfeld Manal of Katana Manhattan of Bipra Manhattan director of camp. I also love talking and of course a little bit of fishing. Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. Asus inspiration carries us into the end of the school year. It's the perfect time to show appreciation to the Rebeim and Moras who gave so much all year long. And how better than to explore some titles by today's episode's sponsor, Israel Bookshop Publications. For aim, few gifts say authentic growth like the newest volume, the legendary of common crone series, volume five. Timeless stories of authentic yash shamayim that continue to inspire generations. Also highly recommended, living a life with betaken, a practical, transformative guide to living with real betaken. especially meaningful for anyone in Kuk and the new moments of Kadusha is already becoming a classic filled with rare stories and hug history and incredible photos of Mosha for Moras the bestselling it's all hers offers powerful firstirhand interviews with the wives of Aragaram revealing the greatness behind the greatness the beloved 102 stories that changed people's Lives series continues changing lives with unforgettable stories of Ashkaharatus and classic cookbooks like Table for Two and the brilliant designed supper 123 are perennial favorites. Find these titles and many more at Israel Bookshop Publications. Helping Clalis grow one great safer at a time. Habim and welcome to a very special edition of the learning curve. It's the finale of season three, a wonderful season of the learning curve of speaking in we get to do it live tonight in front of an audience on Zoom and then obviously it will be produced and posted as usual. Shalom. Rabbi Garfield, how are you? >> Great to see you. Can't believe it's here. That's the beginning of the end after schwus, you know, the school year sort of slides home. So that's this whole >> it's not a head first slide. I I it's more like a trot, but a public service announcement for those that are on and and you know, maybe we'll announce this a couple of times as people continue to join. And that is one of the things we'd like to hear tonight from some of the people that are on the Zoom is and we'll ask at the end are some ideas for next year. Mr. Hashm will come back for season four. >> Wow. um at you know after the summer and some ideas maybe what we can discuss what we haven't discussed until now maybe what we can continue to discuss what has been spoken about it's been a very special three seasons it continues to be something that we feel is obviously for us and for and hopefully for the rabbim and okay away we go let's get to it >> should I ask you a question >> so well I guess we'll start as follows we'll start with a question. You can read me a question. It's fine. And then if you're in the audience and you like to ask a question, you have one or two ways. You can either chat it. You can put go on find at the bottom of the chat and chat and it will come to us. If you're brave enough to want to be live, you can raise your hand. Now, you know, you don't have to raise your physical hand. Obviously, we won't see you. Most of you turn your video off. That's fine. You can turn your video on either way. It doesn't matter. But if you raise your hand using that emoji to raise your hand, then we'll we'll call on you and you could ask your question live if that fits. If you want, you can chat either way. Let's begin. >> All righty. So, here we go. I see and hear from many girls, boys inim married or just out of high school that they feel like they have no relationship with any teacher mas or rebi because they felt they didn't have any major issues or just didn't feel comfortable to talk about it when they were in high school. They were always good kids and never really stood out. also the opportunity to be noticed and spoken to are much less now that they are in a different stage in life. They find themselves lost and unable to ask for serious help advice when it comes to shukim or in their marriages or even what seminar is it really right for them. This whole topic really concerns me because this lack of guidance can cause a really bad decision. I am curious what your thoughts are and how we could make meaningful relationships between students and teachers without needing to be troublemakers. The the question is about is a question really you know I guess in general and that is the good kids that go unnoticed. So throughout elementary school throughout middle school throughout mifto if it's a girl throughout high school it may be what do they need? They don't need much or so we think right and then it comes to shukim. questions about then it comes to or seminaries or big decisions and uh oh all of a sudden they have nowhere to turn to. The answer is that you know both of us both sides of the fence have to do a better job meaning that our yeshivas have to do a maybe a better job at not just focusing on those that need it. I shared a story once earlier this year. I'm going to share it again because it's it's literally this and that is a rash in Lakewood started yeshiva and he went to beak yes of south falls and he said I have a half hour every night after marav right who do I speak to in learning the 10% of the kids that that need you know mental health or the 90% that that want to talk about the garis and if said you're making a big the 90% that you think don't need mental health also need mental health right so I I think one of the mistakes we as me as educators is that we think that the only kids that need the help are the kids that need the help. Really obviously everyone needs help. So so that's our job our it's a push to the rebas to be more proactive in pushing relations for even the the regulars so to speak. On the other end, if you're a parent of a child who's a goody goodie, who's a regular kid, don't rest on your laurels, right? Don't just say, you know, push that relationship. Push that relationship. >> Don't wake up on and right before right before some reason, uh oh, my daughter doesn't have a mora. >> How do you push that? What do you do >> this? Well, reach out, you know, to to the moras and try to foster. Again, if it's a rebi, it's a lot easier because you could create a karus shaft. You could try to create that relationship. I don't know girls high schools, which is probably where this is, you know, questions asked. When my daughter starts nth grade next year, Sarah, I may be able to give an answer. But I think there are plenty of, you know, in girls high schools that are available if you reach out to them. If you reach out to them. I think just sitting back and just expecting someone to be there for your daughter, which is kind of the question, and for your son, they have a lot of people. At the end of the day, the ones that are pushy get the relationship. So pushy is in one of two ways. Either pushy is because you need it because you get in trouble or pushy is because you go after it. You know, ask the guys in the mirror who gets to speak to us and ask him his questions. It's the guys who really push and wait. So >> would you say as a system? It sounds like what you're saying is as a system it really can't work. But if you're listening to this, you happen to be the lucky one who gets to listen to the learning curve and here's the secret potion, then be that one. But you're right. For a system, it doesn't work. That's what I hear you saying. Which is fine. You could say that. I just want to make sure that we're hearing you correctly. >> So this is the finale. So I get to like we could like quote all our previous episodes. It's like one of those regardless I'm going to quote you. If you remember, we had Mrs. Dvora Pinkis on, right? and and and she was talking about the gifted child and how we reach him. And you said, "I wish we could reach everybody, >> but we have to focus on the kids that need us more than others." So, yeah, the system is a system. Every system by definition doesn't reach everybody equally. That's what a system is. >> Okay. So, I mean, I I don't think I disagree. You know, I think that it doesn't really matter. I would say to anyone listening, you know, the 40,000 or so, I don't know what our numbers are as of now, but the 300,000 that listen, you know, it doesn't really matter. It's true the system has this weakness, but you as a parent or as a child listening try to reach out and like you said, most people when you reach out, they reciprocate. They're you know I remember this is like a story like I when I realized I wanted to go into being a principal or into whenever I had a chance I would try to meet mim meet you know people in tomasura that were of influence I was always trying to meet people because I felt like you know it's good it leads to it leads to things and it does >> right >> so you know try to meet people >> but that's you who have a certain type of personality this is the kid who maybe doesn't have that so it's not as easy >> it's True. Sometimes parents I know a trick that some people do like they'll pay I don't know if kids are listening. Your parents would never do this those kids who are listening but they'll even pay like a young cola wife to like need a mother's helper to invite a middle school girl to their home and help. I've seen that done. So that's that's just an idea that's out there. But um >> Okay. >> Interesting question. >> Interesting. Well, you know, we'll do one more question that we got in from the pre and then if someone wants to raise their if we have brave hand raisers in the audience or chatters um you could you could text a question on the chat if you go on the bottom. If not, we'll continue from there. Um here's the next question. Thank you for your excellent episodes. I really enjoy your insight and exploration of current issues. Way to get your question asked. No. Yeah. You think there's an out going? >> I don't know. Getting nervous. Go ahead. >> However, no, there's no however. Can you please give perspective on the trending issue of misa boys not attending shakras? Okay, this is obviously an assumption. Are we as parents out of touch old-fashioned to exacting in our standards? All the above or all of the above when we wake our sons expecting them to attend a minion? How are they considered anus if they choose to turn over in bed and sleep for hours namely the better part of the day? I can't tell you the pain we feel watching this happen day in day out. We stopped waking them up more than once and we will never comment on those coming into the suda after the first first course I guess on Shabas. I understand that Shakra's attendance is not an expectation in B medish in most yeshivas. Please help. So there's a lot of assumptions being made here about Shakra's attendance in yeshivas. Shakras attendance in general Garfield we're both not in MFA but we both taught in MFA >> and we went to Msa. >> We both went to Msa. Yeah. >> The one thing I would say right away it's not a trend. This has been around for 40 years or at least I could testify to 35 years ago when there were those boys who just never came and they you know I don't think it's a new thing but I'll tell you my reaction you know the empathy and the understanding that getting up for shakers is hard for some people you know some people have it easy their body rhythms their focus their enjoyment of davin whatever factors there could be a whole range of factors but you know the bottom line is that there are children for whom it isn't it is very hard and I would caution you and it sounds like this parent is trying to do this but you got to like really do it is not to find their entire Judaism on that one criteria because being a successful Jew has a lot of components going to shak is a val is a value and but I think because it's so hard we make it the value like as if like it's one of the top three things a kid has to do to be a good Jew because otherwise we think they won't go and I'm not sure that that's a healthy way to motivate kids to go to shakers. I wonder I haven't done a study but if you looked at think about we could do it right now think about the boys when we were in yeshiva that had a trouble going to shakers right are they any less successful adults in terms of their rnas I mean it's very hard to judge that but I would suspect they are not >> that as they matured as their life evolved they figured it out either they go to a later chakras or they don't you know I don't know but I've seen many students who struggled with it mightily in 11th grade But, you know, it worked out. They worked out as Jews. And if we hyperfocus on it and throw all the guilt and make it like they're totally unsuccessful because of this one metric, I think we risk throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I don't know if that fully answers it. Would you say that I've given it enough? >> I I I actually have a lot to say on this. >> By all means, say >> I want want you to finish your thoughts before I >> Well, I I think I I think that's my main reaction. you know, you get into like the the kids getting up at 400 p.m. I mean, he's obviously going to sleep, something's going on. I mean, that's beyond. But a normal bucker who struggles with getting up for Shakris, I feel like we should, you know, respectfully encourage it, but not over not treat it like it is the definition of a successful Jew. >> So, I I I want to share two stories, a cute story and then a story with me about. There are but I do think to give context I'm going to generalize in an extreme way. There are two very different types of boys that don't go to shakus. There is the boy that is struggling and is struggling and he doesn't go go to shakus not because he struggles with chakras. He doesn't get out of bed and he's not doing well in yeshiva and he wakes up at 10 and he gets around and he's sluggish. That boy is not a chakras issue. that boy is a teenage struggle issue and that boy right shakus maybe is the symptom that you get to see at home over the weekends when he's home that's not a shakus issue and then there is which I I'm just being media from father mother it sounds like father um that but I like to decide who the questions are I'm I'm sensing from the father the following and if I'm not then I'm making up my own question and that is this is like one of those kids who's a good kid and he's stinging and he's learning and he's not getting up. What's going on here? It's that this is a kid who's learning and not getting up for shakers. And that you said is is not a new trend. That is a a big challenge, you know, conversation yeshiva about the boys that will learn late at night. The boys that will learn till one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning and then mishakas. The boys that will wake up late in the morning, you know, not have doning as a big of their a schedule and then have a wonderful day in yeshiva. You know, that is a much more that is much more I think prevalent and bigger topic of what you do. You know, I will just share that when I was in the mir we're both learning Arabic right there. We're in the Sachs Iv and I was and I went to complain to this is 24 years ago as crazy as that sounds that was that long ago. I went to complain to Raasher that he's going too fast >> and because in the mirror I was coming from Salsburg. >> No, I I didn't complain. I said, "What can I do?" >> 800 guys in the share. It's too fast. Sorry. Show them up. Go ahead. >> First of all, then it wasn't 800. It was 300. >> Okay. >> And I I was really complaining. It was I was like holding on for dear life. I said, "Then what should I do?" And he looks at me and he says, "Where do you dive in in the morning?" Imagine that was his question. How do I follow Shir if you're going so fast? And Abasha said to me, >> really? Wow. Okay. >> So then he paused. I didn't answer. And he said he right in right the 8:00. I actually I ded in the yeshiva which I don't think is around anymore called Sharuna. Ever heard that Yeshiva? Remember the Yeshiva Rab some Rab Z last name Z Sharuna. Anyway, that's what I thought. So I said, he said, "Do you d in yeshiva?" And I said, "No." And looked at me and he said yes, which means I'll translate. >> I right I never met anyone that was in life who didn't. And he was imploring me and begging me to d and he said to me the doesn't compare to the avaraba and yeshiva. That was his his soft his soft little you know push. But so what I would say is that I do think that davening is you know you say ah people that don't go to shakist that kind of work it out later in later in life. I think shakus is is and should be a big part of that being said teenagers you know and this is obviously a boy thing not a girl thing um because is and for boys but girls have to wake up early in the morning also somehow they they stroll out of bed and make it to yeshiva teenagers who are learning learning late at night they struggle to wake up and to your point Rabbi it's not in their minds it doesn't ple them. It doesn't invalidate their learning. And so even though you as a balabas you as a parent who shak is the part of the day in which you connect to for them it's it's 12 hours a day and therefore shakus is a struggle and in their world it's not the soul that you think it is and you just have to recognize that. Or another thing is boys come home, let's say they're in yeshiva and they're pushing themselves and they come home and they want to like really veg it, which you know I think is shocking for parents who are new to that world, but it's much more common >> you know. So, so I'll just share I don't want to get too personal, right? But I have three boys in MFA and B medish and kern Davin on Chabas. It's an amazing shul starts at 8:15 on Shabas morning, right? Woof. >> It is not often that my boys come to Davin with me. Now, we could have a separate which we have discussed in the past. So, I should din with him, right? Okay, fine. Separate conversation. It is much more often that they dive in next door to my house in a wonderful at 9:00, right? similar conversation. This is after a long week of learning. So, >> right. >> And we'll leave it at that. >> All right. Let us move on. >> I say people that are are texting in questions. So, I'm going to ask you this question, Rabbi. >> This is a new one. Just came in. >> It just came in. I'm going to read it to you. >> Um, and I say to the crowd, those that are here, if you raise your hand by pressing the the reaction button, right, it goes like right or make what? Right. Is there a hand raised? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's on the bottom. >> Some emoji. We'll find you and we'll call on you. Here's the question to you. My older middle-grade son is a bright, fun-loving, sweet, and fairly innocent kid. He has been getting closer to a couple of boys in his class who feed into his love of excitement and are fun to hang out with. One of the boys has some social challenges and we initially thought it was nice for our son to be his friend almost as a however and I guess a lot of people listening can associate with this struggle. As time has gone on, we are not so thrilled with some of the things he is picking up from them. pop culture exposure to some inappropriate behaviors, language, right? Nothing in the terrible, unsafe, but not our hashkafa. We don't want him to be a covenant for the sake of being friends with this troubled boy. How do we go about dealing with this situation? We've been told him, you know, sometimes you say our our son is not available that only works so much time, you know, so often. This is I imagine anyone who lives in a neighborhood that has a lot of neighbors and a from neighborhood has some neighbors that you're not so thrilled with. Um that's just the reality. You're not going to get up and move. Not everyone can move to Houston as as fast as Houston is growing. So let's call this the neighbor, you know, the neighbor challenge over Garfield. >> Yeah. Very legitimate. A very legitimate question. >> We got you. The crowd got you. >> Yeah. I have to think going to have to think about that. I I I would say, you know, I hope this is uh the best answer, but this is what comes to mind is to discuss it openly with your child. >> What age? Now, remember, middle school? >> It says upper middle school. So, I'm going to assume older middle school. I'm going to do the seventh grade, let's say. Right? So, I would think that you could have a conversation with your son and say, "Listen, you know our family, you know our standards. I wonder, you know, when you hear other things or this particular boy, like is that a bad ashbah? What do you think?" Now if he says he gets all indignant and says that >> very possible >> right well then I would say your issue is is broader meaning like you're not in a situation where you could really influence him in that way and then and then it's a whole another level of parenting finesse that's required because you have a situation where the the uh channels of communication are very strained meaning I would hope that a parent could work to develop a relationship with their kid where they could have a conversation again you're not answering anything. There's no policy being made. It's a conversation. What do you think about? Right. Do you think this is a good ashba? Do you I'd be curious what you're leaving it up to yourself. >> No, I'm starting a conversation. I'm bringing awareness now. I'd be curious what the child would say because the child might say, "Yeah, it's really not the best thing, but I feel bad for him and I I've already been." And then that would be an opening to have a conversation. It's not so push it, right? Just to drop a neb just to drop him. Maybe you could discuss how to handle when he does things that are inappropriate. Maybe you're open to that conversation. I know children who I've even in my school like I can have conversations like that with middle school boys. You know, if if it's calm and it's just the two of you and there's no extra emotional attacks and you're not doing it as a got you or we're changing policy or just a reflective conversation. I I think I you know I'd like to think it could that could be a approach. I think that when you get into assering the kid and especially in a larger community, you can't watch your kid and control where he goes. It's a very hard um it's a very hard parenting to use control on a social environment with a kid that's in your child's social sphere. So, the only way to really do it is through means talking, teaching, demonstrating, problem solving, engaging. I know it's foreign for a lot of people like what? Talk to YOUR KID. WE WOULD never do that. >> My parents never talk to me, >> right? There's no room for talking. Yeah, there. I mean, that's what you're gonna have to do. You could try mandating. Go for it. Let me know how it goes. Season uh five. Uh you'll write back how you tried to mandate and your kid ran away or something. But anyway, what do you got? >> So, you know, not so different than you, but to me, I will say like this. I I will share but a little different. But a little >> Yeah, I would hope you're a little different. You're not >> Come on. After all, >> not talking to kids crazy. >> First of all, this is a massive challenge that anyone who lives in a from neighborhood has I mean, unless you live in, I don't know, new square, maybe they don't have challenges in New Square where everyone is accepted. There's >> no one who's pushing that, >> right? There's always >> different envelope. >> There's always, you know, there's always the neighbors to the left of you that you don't want your child to be, you know, necessarily sleepovers with. And there's always table neighbors to the right of you that you want your daughter to have a sleepover with. And then right and there's always there's wherever you wherever you are there's people that that that are below you and then there's people above you. I don't want to quote today's garra but it's today's gamarra in ina right >> behind behind you're behind about f getting a neighbor that's what the gamarra discusses getting a neighbor that's one step above you to learn from your neighbor >> but here's I think the challenge the challenge is and of as we always say age matters. If your son or your daughter is in eighth grade, tth grade, it's a lot easier than if he's or she is in sixth grade, in fourth grade, in eighth grade, in fifth grade. And I think what parents have to realize is one of two things. You're not You can move. You're not moving, right? You're not You're not moving. These are your neighbors. You want to call the neighbors. Good luck. You have to, and this is just it's about everything in life because as you said, you're not going to be able to control so much of what your child does. You are going to have to fill your child up with such and love and self-esteem and confidence and perseverance that then when they go to their neighbor's house, you know, and their neighbor's house is feeding them something that has a hexer, I'm giving an extreme example because that probably happens much less, you know, your son or daughter will be able to stand for that. You know, I heard an amazing story. I actually saw it. Shiman Russell was talking to Le Steinman and he asked him I have a a parent who came to me she they have a daughter who they want to get to break up with their with their boyfriend. How do they get their daughter to break up with their boyfriend? My lady was a hundred years old. He's living in Benra. You would think what does he know about a girlfriend and a boyfriend? Right. >> So turned to this father turned to Shim Russell and he said is crazy. >> Does the girl know that the father loves her more than the boyfriend does? And he's like, he's like, what? Yes. Does the girl know that the father, does she feel that the father loves her more than the boyfriend does? Because if she doesn't feel that, why should she break up with the boyfriend? Right? Like a mic drop. >> Mic drop. So your as a parent is to create such a a a self not just self-esteem, but a feeling of pride with your child that when these things come up, no matter what age, they will be able to overcome them. >> Yeah. Okay, >> we have a couple of questions coming in. >> Let me read you the question. >> Okay, >> here we go. >> I am concerned about the use of classroom technology and some of our from schools, Cahoot, Gimkit, access to internet devices, even if filtered etc. I recently read the digital delusion by Jared Cooney Harvath. >> The research is clear and shocking. Screens in the classroom actively harm learning. The data I read was overwhelming. Are mankim and our community aware of this data? I'm wondering how you see this data and associated trends removing technology from the classroom impacting from world and if you see mankin discussing the latest research on technology in the classroom. I'd appreciate your perspective. >> I don't have I I I don't have the data so I can't really speak to that. You know, maybe this is the one of those where being a little old school makes you look good. Shiva time Manhattan is pretty old school. Not on purpose. Maybe this gives me pause. I'm trying to get more smartboards and prethe boards. >> Maybe you should read uh Jared Cooney Harvat. >> Maybe I read it. Maybe I knew it intuitively which is why we don't have you know when I was an eighth grade rebby I did not use a Smartboard and my excuse to the and I refused to mainly because I was did not want to learn how to use it. But my excuse was my sheet that I created was in Mifa you're going to use Smartboards, right? Right. So I wanted wanted to get the boys used to miss that which I think has merit. I can't speak to the I I didn't read the book. I do think that there is so many different modalities of teaching today that we have to reach. There's audio, there's text and yes, if you have a classroom and that you teach your gamura and everything is on, you know, the board on the whiteboard on the smartboard, I think that creates a certain distraction. However, you know, Cahoots is this cute little game that people usually use for like testing and quizzes, right? And and it's a it's a gaming a way to gify quizzes. What can I tell you? It doesn't bother me at all if a teacher is going to make a pie chart and make a you know a ven diagram and instead of coloring it in with with a with a marker, they're going to use a you know, they have it ready pre-programmed beforehand. I think the question the question is had has everything it's all about balance but I don't know what they're doing in in Houston. We're actually not a big smartboard school Manhattan. Um we're an oldstyled school just because of our building and it's hard to get things in and and hook things up. So really we're old school but >> I'm going to say I'm going to say something something that uh is pretty wild. So get ready. Prepare yourself all the TLC listeners. Just a little background. when I was uh a rebby in uh Atlanta my first few years I decided I wanted to go into being a principal and I wanted to get a additional degree because my masters was not in education or leadership it was in counseling so like I went back so at that time John Hopkins University which is where I was affiliated with from there is had a new masters this is 2003 okay >> okay >> a brand new masters that was the only at the time the first and only online masters you could get and it was a partnership with an organization called ISTY IST which is the international society of technology and education and we had to go besides like them co-sponsoring it so it's like high-tech quote unquote but we had to go to their conference the ISTY conference which I went to I forgot where it was it was like part of the requirement of the degree of the masters so I did all that and so I remember the reason I'm saying this is here we are in 2026. So it was at 23 years later. I remember the excitement and the anticipation that the education community had, not the firm one, just in general. I was there. I was at the conference about the hope of technology transforming education. It was like at that time people couldn't get enough of it. It was going to save the world. And then I remember when a very wealthy person, I won't mention who and what, but a a certain foundation invested iPads in every school and they were trying to get you could get for free for your school iPads. And it was like that was also maybe 20 years ago, maybe a little more. And we've been through Smartboards. We've been through I think anyone who has, >> you know, is of my age so to speak, and seen it, >> we've seen the great promise that people felt educa technology had. And here's the statement I'm going to say. I don't think as of now, 23 years later, the net gain of technology has done anything to move the education field forward. In fact, if anything, it's put us back. Now, that doesn't mean I'm against all technology. I I think there's a place for it, but I just mean collectively, the amount of distraction, the amount of resources, the amount of energy, finances, all that stuff we've put into technology has been such a waste of focus. And in the end of the day, true learning takes place by human interaction with deep thinking with Khazara, practicing skills. That's where learning takes place, engagement and technology has yet to be able to really provide that in a meaningful way. So when I look at the entirety of the 23 years and all the money and all the ideas and all the latest trends and like all of it, I still don't feel it has moved the the ball forward collectively in education. >> Could I agree and add one caveat? >> Surely. >> Yes. Thank you. um the child that needs to learn a little different, right? For them, for that kid, having the graphics and having maybe the storytelling and seeing it on the Smartboard. In other words, for that kid who really is a visual learner, >> there's a place for technology. I'm just saying collectively individually there are technologies that are useful specific technologies here and there you know or a reb who really knows how to use a smart bird effectively which is rare but there are a few who actually know how to use it but I'm just saying globally you know but >> but technology but rabbi technology is here so what so so if if it's >> we have to be very slow this is what I would say and we do this you know in my school you have to be very slow like never I would never allow the school. I try not to let us get ahead of any teacher where we're pushing it. Meaning, if you have a teacher who has an interest, ability, knowledge of a certain uh technological thing, I'm like, "Okay, you know, if you could use it, that's okay." But we've lived through schools where they said everyone has to use a whiteboard and the teacher's like, "What? Everyone has to use a digital report uh you know, a digital uh grading book." No. Don't put the technology ahead of the educator's ability, focus, and strength. That's what I'm saying. I keep the techn technology is not solving. It's a tool. It's a tool. Listen, there are people who have dyslexia who could who could audio. There's I could read it to you. I mean, they're definitely technological tools that are out there, >> but globally it is not saving the day. It's just not >> right. Okay. I have three questions that were just posted by what's it called? And I'm going to ask all three one at a time. I guess I'll take Well, we'll do one at a time. Um here's the first one. Ready? Rabbi, this is for you. >> Yes. How should we react if we discover a secret account or a hidden app on a child's phone? Now, we're not going to even say the names of >> you know that there's some family like that this is happening like watching >> I before I asked the question so you'll answer but I want to tell you a very terrifying story. >> Was it Dr. Blumenthal? Dr. Norman Blumenthal maybe it was him. One of one of the one of was speaking to a crowd of Rabanam and Flappish. This goes back 15 years about you know hidden apps and accounts and he read this terrifying per like pro like inappropriate account that was on Facebook which used to was the thing back in the day. I don't know what is today Tik Tok or Snapchat today. And the crowd of Rabonaman Rebbitson were like shaking and they said and here's the catch. Ready? It's the daughter of someone in this room. >> That's great. I mean, it's not great, but And everyone's looking around like and like and you don't know, >> right? >> And so, so how did he be, how does he know? Crazy. Because he walked into the school and he went over to this daughter to this girl, teenage girl, whatever his school was in and he said, hey, could you give me your phone number? And she's like, I'm going to call the cops. Who are you? I don't know. Right. How dare you, creep. And he went home and he went on Facebook and he and he sat there made up a random name and said, will you you try to befriend her? And she accepted him. So now he has access to everything she has. Um, fine. So the these are obviously as as we we we say this in joke. These are obviously very concerning things. Anyone who's raising teenagers, how should we react if we discover a secret account, a hidden app on a child's phone? >> So I'm going to shock the world once again. >> Gee, >> yeah, I mean I can't help myself. I'm going to say talk to the child. Is that like crazy? like say to the child, well, first of all, I find it interesting. You're going around the child's back. Okay, let's I don't know. That has to be dealt with. >> I don't know that the your child's phone was open and you see uh um you know, I don't know. >> Sounds a little fishy. >> I don't know. Yeah. >> I mean, the truth is that you you know, the mistake was made when you gave the child an unproperly filtered smartphone. Happened to be that tag is exceptionally good. They have a new technology that is very, very good at this. So FYI, any parent, you should deal with that proactively. You've obviously not done that and whatever. So we're dealing with this. But that's part of the danger of giving a child a phone is that uh these kind of things are going to happen, you know. So again, I you know, the child is not a pariah yates criminal. The child is normal and did a normal thing. So I would have a conversation and I don't have a problem with there being some kind of consequences. meaning, you know, because this happened, we have to we thought that the phone was secure. Clearly, it's not. So, we have to either limit something you switch phones or get it fixed up or, you know, that could be like quote unquote a consequence. I don't have a problem with that. But I think again the is is in and we've talked about this forever with Yakobson and all this stuff. The is always in the conversation, the lesson, the engagement. It's never in the anger and the rule and the consequence. That's not the sometimes you have to do that a little. But the is in your ability to engage. So I would say in this case, you know, you just got to engage. You got to discuss it. Why is it a problem? What does that app do? Why is the child hiding it? What's going on? >> So I want to add two things. Recently, I was dealing with a situation where this happened and the parents called me and the and the the back and forth with the teenage son and the kid said to me in all vulnerable and all honesty, he's like, "I don't understand. Parents want to take away my phone, right? Because I have this app, whatever it was, right? And they're angry at me, right? So, I'm going to take my phone. Do they not realize that I have another burner phone in my closet?" >> He was like, "Straight on. And if they take that away, I'm just going to get another one. >> Right? >> And he was he was he wasn't even being arrogant. He was almost like like what are you doing? That's not how you talk to me. And it reminded me of an amazing framework like a framing of the suga that I heard once from Greenwald. I went to his his when I was married to this is before I had children 25 years ago. I know well that would be to be weird. So it was probably 23 years ago maybe when my first child was born. He said such an amazing way to set this conversation up and it stuck with me ever since. And he said, "If you're going to have a fight with your teenage son or daughter, let's say it's son, and your teenage son, you know, has this app that you this phone that you don't like and he does something horrible. What is the worst thing you could do to your child? What is the worst thing a parent What is your nuclear bomb?" The worst thing a parent could do to their child is kick him out of the house. Right? That's what you could do, right? Kick him out of the house. Right? What is the worst thing a child can do to you? So he says, "So who's holding a water gun and who's holding a nuclear bomb?" It was an amazing, it was a mic drop. If you turn your challenged teenage, which this is, if you have a teen teenage son or daughter who doesn't have a relationship enough with you and isn't confident, right, that they're hiding apps, which is makes sense. They're hiding apps, they're embarrassed. If you're going to be confrontational with them and fight them and it's a war and it's a battle, keep in mind that you are going into that battle holding a water gun and they are holding a tank and they're driving a tank. >> It's an unfair battle. It cannot be a battle. It has to be It can be with pain. It could be with conversation as you said. It could be with consequences. But if you think you can just No more phones, I'm taking away your phone. I'm docking you. I'm grounding you. I'm not saying you can't ground a child. I'm not saying you can't dock a child, but it has to be within the context of a relationship because they will get on the phone and they hold all the keys >> to to the future of your >> I know that people I don't know the people listening but there are people who find this kind of talk >> too and new yeah it's like new age and everything and I would just say to them I hear you tell me the alternative like I'm open I'm not maybe we're wrong you know maybe were wrong. You have to beat the kid up. I just we just don't see that that works. It's not like a shittita. It's just like practical. It just doesn't it doesn't work. I don't know what to say. Like I'm sorry that we're so nice to kids. I wish you know if it wasn't I wouldn't be. But Lameisa, I don't know another way. I just don't >> I I I want to share something a little bit almost like funny and that is I was at the Manal's conference recently that you you ran so unbelievably well at Thomas Manal conference and I think someone asked one of them now limit you know when you're 25 years of what have been the biggest changes right the great question and I was sitting there thinking to myself oh my gosh I'm in for 20 years right what would I answer to that question if I got I never know I was always the little kid what if I was if if I was which I'm asking myself now right what would I answer and I think this is the biggest difference and I want to explain it with like a the biggest difference between today and 15 years ago is that children and teenagers partly because of the fact that they are given certain whether it's whether they have exposure in a good way to material to reading material to to learning to podcasts to articles in in newspapers children today and teenagers today are much less authoritarian and much more shovea and equal partners in conversations than they were 20 years ago. You know, again, I'm not I'm not bad or good. There's obviously tremendous challenges with that. But 20 years ago, you were just able to say this is the way it is. And there was a much more on an overarching way of okay, okay, aba, okay, daddy, that's the way it is. I think our the the biggest fundamental change and it's like this in middle school. We explain things to kids. Kids need to be validated and felt and seen and heard. All of these buzzwords. We could chicken and egg it from today till tomorrow. But we're there. And since we're there, to your point, Garfield, if you're just going to try to turn back the clock 20 years and say you had an app on your phone, I'm breaking your phone. If that works, >> not in my house, you won't have an app, >> right? Not in my house. You know what? You know, your son can say to you, your daughter can say to you, "Okay, bye." And then what? Right? You have, it's almost like, "And then what?" Right? You want to be tough with your kid until your kid walks out of the house. And then what? Oops. >> Do you have any other The time is flying by. We're We barely uh started. We have Rakkesh on a lot of questions coming in. And do do you have uh another one that just came to you? >> Yes. No, I'm gonna So I I'm going to take this one. How's that? Ready? >> Go ahead. In the recently released book, The Welleducated Child, this is from someone listening here tonight. You know that book, Rabbi? The well-educated child. I don't. >> I'm not sure. >> The principal has a theory that she only hires teachers who loves kids. >> Well, that's the Harlem Center. I actually am familiar with that. Shout out to my dear brother Sam Garfield who just sent to me in the mail this shabus. So, I think it was featured in the Wall Street Journal. Anyway, continue. I just started. >> Do you agree? Can you have a great teacher who loves teaching but doesn't love kids? Is it feasible that every teacher will love kids? Wow. So, um I will just share when people say to me, hey, should I go into right and in camp and and often counselors are getting married, you know, Rabbi, what do you think? I want to go into what do you think? My my I I've said shared this before. I'll I'll share it again. My response to them is like a little bit off the beaten path. And I said, "If you were not Jewish, would you want to go into?" >> If the answer is no, then don't go into if you're going to only because of teaching to then maybe be, you know, then maybe become a M. I don't know then then give Shirim and and writeim and give and give and do that. But it has to be first and foremost is do you love the children? And I it sounds so, you know, cliche. So I'm not, you know, Um, we had Reveli Brney, right? Reveli Brneydney in the Q&A at the conference was asked, "If you have someone who's the other person is just much better with kids and he connects the kids and he likes kids more, what should you who should you hire?" And Britney said, "Such a sharp line." I don't know if you remember it. He said, "Hire the second one." And he said, "A stellar isn't supposed to be a reward for good behavior." >> Yeah. >> Right. That was a Britney's line. You know, of course, the fact that you're Your mind might help you connect to kids because they'll look up to you. Of course, that should be. But is it feasible that every teacher would love kids? The good ones do. The great ones do. >> Yeah. No, >> I would say it it is not it's not so feasible. But that's not the point. The point is the more you could feel and give over and be genuine the famous uh movement of from Hoffman and Marstein who's written some books right the more you could do that it's not a zero sum game it's not like either you love or you don't you know you try to love as many kids as you can and give it over as much as you can as as often but the reality is on a given Tuesday after you're tired and you were up and you drove and the kid's doing an annoying thing. Uh, you know, it's sometimes hard. >> It's like saying, can you be a good parent if you don't love your kid? >> I mean, you can't really, but that doesn't mean every parent is infatuated with their children every moment of parenting, >> right? My father-in-law, I don't know if he's listening, but my father-in-law likes to say, >> he's listening. What are you thinking? What do you think? >> Staring at him. Hello. Could you let me play my game? >> Oh, is that your father-in-law? I don't know. I was wondering who that nice man was. >> My father-in-law likes to say that. >> He's a good guy. Yeah. What does he like? My father likes to say that every kid is his favorite. It just depends on the day where different ones are favorites. Whoever need whoever needs it the most becomes the favorite. >> But that right. So but one thing is that you know not every rebby has to be the the rebby that's a wow. You know there are certain rebim that are more old school and more you know not distant but more authoritarian especially and that works and that connects and that's amazing. >> Yeah. It doesn't mean they don't love them. Love is this is the of of and the kamayim is that it's not about what you say it's not about what you do it's it's an inner mitas that a child picks up on >> right >> and I think we know that I think I think you know the people in your life who you feel love you care about you and the people who less so and you know it's not so much only what they do it's how you feel when you're around them >> rabbi quick question for you this one's this one I'll ask this came just came in is it right to push or bribe my kid to play with a friend or a neighbor who doesn't have friends when she wouldn't otherwise want to in order to teach good midos. Wow, nice one. >> This just was put on the chat. Is it right to bribe my kid or to push my kid to play with a friend or neighbor who doesn't have friends and she doesn't who in order to teach her good midas? >> You know, it's funny because I grew up I had that my father it should be wild. >> You had no friends. You people were >> I think Yeah. No, he was a >> I would have been I would have been your friend. >> He was a big advocate of pushing me to befriend some children who didn't have other friends. He didn't bribe me, although I don't mind collecting now if that's an option. I didn't get bribed, but I definitely got pushed. Yeah, I think I think there's a place for that. Encourage, I would use the word encourage instead of bribe or push. I would encourage it. I think it is good midos. And I think at the end of the day when they're together, the two of them, and no one's watching, and you know, it's not so bad usually, you know, the kid is, but I did I did experience some difficult times with these type of friends. I mean, one of them had a Neok situation in life and I remember I got the new cliffhers racing car game for Kaneka for my aunt. You know what that is? Do you even know what that is? >> No idea. >> Okay. Cliffhangers was >> if it wasn't basketball or baseball, I don't know it as a kid. >> It would go around and it went up the wall. It was like electric cars where you press these like things and it would go up the wall. It was amazing. But if you pressed it too hard, it would break because it was like too much power. And I said to this person, "Do not press it hard." And he part of his social challenge was that was not within his scope. And he broke my cliffhers. And that was a hard thing for me. So, but that it's good. You taught me well and it's okay. But >> yeah. Go ahead. I think cliffhanger is first of all like a muscle for certain kids that could draw up the wall and they they they climb up the wall. >> I have to Google it. >> I think the answer to this question is a one-word answer. 100% yes. Your daughter, >> I don't like the word bribe, but I I I think >> bribing was a bit much. >> I think it's very healthy to teach your son or daughter the value of extending her comfort zone to play with a friend. Not every day, not every minute, but and and explain to her emp it's what empathy is. It's real awesome empathy. And it's really um it's something that really speaks to the fact that you're able to be in someone else's shoes. Hey, you have so many friends. She doesn't. Invite her over with her friends. Maybe go out with for a little bit after school. Again, obviously it depends on the age, but this is a tremendous opportunity to teach your son or daughter midas. And I actually would prefer not to bribe again if it's she's seven maybe if she's nine 10 11 >> seven it's like I think bribing is >> right but >> all right can I can I share a friend of mine sent me a voice note just now with a question so I think that would be fun. Let me play you his his voice note. >> Okay. >> Let's see what it is. I'll play it for you. Here we go. >> TLC. This is my question. How much should we be educating our kids about the Holocaust, similar episodes of Jewish oppression and anti-semitism generally? The Holocaust was a constant in my childhood. I grew up around survivors and made survivors visit our school regularly. Kids these days have not had the same exposure to the Holocaust. And I believe that October 7th and the surge in anti-semitism that has resulted since has been a rude awakening for some of today's kids. How should we be educating our kids both in and out of school on these topics and preparing them to confront this aspect of our history and place in the world? Thank you. I thought that was interesting because it's so timely I guess you know and we haven't really thought about we never talked about Holocaust education. >> We have not talked about Holocaust education. I struggle because I think obviously you know Holocaust education in my family. Every family has their own relationship with the Holocaust and usually there's stories in every family. We still live with the Holocaust very very strongly in my family. But as always I think age matters. I think it's the challenge is you don't want to scare children and it's very easy to scare children. So what happens? So what happens is that to misor puts out videos for about the holocaust and what it's really is it's heroes of the holocaust. Right. Right. And >> amuna >> amuna and it's great stories of the suka and the matzah and the oil and it's not >> the terrors ra of the holocaust you know >> do I think I think high school and you know and I don't think we do a great job. I don't because it's not part of the core curriculum but but I think in elementary school >> mildly it's not part of the core curriculum. It sounds like it's even on the radar. It's not. >> It's not on the radar. It's not. It's not. Um, but I could just say in my lane, I'm an elementary school. I think we do u we bring in survivors. We names not numbers is something we did in our school. Um, a rebby of ours father was just nifer used to come in and speak to the boys and we've had people speak to the boys about the Holocaust and about anti-semitism. But you have to realize I live my my we live in Manhattan. It's a challenge. certain boys and I'm I walk in the street with my yamaka and my titas out and you know I'm I I don't have that but some people walk in the street with a baseball cap. So it's almost like they don't feel the need as parents don't teach my kid about the fears of anti-semitism. I'm afraid to go on the bus in the morning >> sometimes. So we have to really balance this delicate if we want to give this big huge broad stroke of anti-semitism in in Claus's history when we also want to create keep our kids not scared to come to yes in the morning. >> I hear you. I hear you. I mean I definitely remember growing up you know the survivors were much more part of >> they were there >> our yeah our librarian is bodheimer and others all shalom but it is it is a sensitive especially in the world we live in today post September 7th where anti-semitism has really become you know part of what we talk about part of what's going on right we just had this horrible article in the New York Times it's like a standard kind of challenge for us >> but you talk about that in seventh grade >> no first of all seventh I mean yeah subtly meaning I wouldn't say the world is you know but the idea that as of sun and that even in the gullis it's a regular theme of discomfort and uh you know political I I happen to teach Jewish history to eighth grade girls and it does come up the idea of of using the courts to be you know to anti-semitism in court and uh you know issues like that >> I would much rather stress and revel spoke about this at the conference the ben right to to show to use anti-semitism to show how different we are than the that we are the and speak about our uniqueness and maybe that's why they hate us but to focus you know really on the the fear the scary parts of anti-semitism in an elementary school setting and through 8th grade right >> I get nervous stressing about it too much in today's society maybe I'm maybe that makes me I don't know weak a little >> interesting question I mean you know what What is the message? What message do we want the holocaust to teach? You know, I think that the Israel have have discussed it a little, but >> the answer is that it's very it's an impossible to learn re I mean hashkafik from the holocaust is hard. We we struggle with it till today to explain the Holocaust. So, you know, and here's here's here in lies the rub. Ready? When we're teaching Holocaust studies, we're not doing it in Gumar with a Rebi. We're doing it in the afternoon, right, >> with an English teacher. We want that English teacher who isn't the Charles Rebi to be the one to define the hashkuffic response of the Holocaust. What are you crazy? >> So that's why it's we don't I I I'll put this way. I think in I don't think there's a great response, right? Or a great uh what's it called? Way to >> So maybe it's a fair question. And the person essentially is saying like especially in the wake of October 7th and the anti-semitism we're experiencing, we might want to rethink uh how we teach that major aspect of anti-semitism. >> I'm going to ask you one more question. >> I can't believe it's 8 o'clock already. What is going on here? >> 9 o you're you're used to >> nine o'clock. Yeah. >> I'm gonna ask you one more question. It's a fascinating question about teaching Tanakh. You ready? >> Okay. Okay. An area I'm so proficient in. Go ahead. It has to the the the background of the question is the child doesn't have clinical anxiety but the child is a little anxious based and we you know therefore >> okay >> there are Jewish books about even parts of Tanakh that can get bloody violent and sometimes gory especially for our for our enemies this riles up certain kids or could even make them nervous I certainly don't want to sense or Tanakh but what are the guidelines if any when reading in the home and especially in school for avoiding the bloodier aspects of Jewish history and mccy especially with younger children. Wow, great question. >> Yeah, I never heard that one before. What has come to mind is a conversation that I had with the Shiva in Baltimore of Felmanita, but it was about a different topic, but I think it's the same kind of answer. He was talking about the more like Natsneas components that come up in saying Natsne is the wrong expression. Sexual challenges and things that come up in the sukim that a kid might not be aware of, you know, and >> shirim obvious. >> Yeah. even insukim even even to kumish you know can happen that a kid is like doesn't know about you know and so he was very emphatic very very strong that the rabbi should just teach it it's part of the Torah >> and you know just teach it as a fact and you'll be surprised how easy kids are all freaking out but kids they just like they roll with it most of them don't really fully understand it but whatever either way you know it's that's what he said he felt very strongly that the message we're giving is that the Torah is is is there to learn and everything is part of the world and it's a very healthy message in a way that it's not like these inyanim are like somehow from the Torah you know so I I don't know that's what's coming to my mind is that if you're teaching Tanakh and you're and you don't skip to those gory parts but for whatever reason it comes up let's say the brothers uh when they went to kill and the way you know whatever is in the sukim I think you teach it I don't I don't think that's a you don't uh sugarcoat it it's part of the Torah what happened to the Egyptians or whatever, >> right? >> I think that's the D. I don't know. I mean, I'd be curious what you have to say. >> So, I struggle I struggle with this as a Rebi. Really struggle went through this because I think when you're teaching fourth grade and the Egyptians and the Mitsur and they sink and some like lead and some like straw, you make it into a stick. I think kids bounce off their back. I was a eighth grade rabbi and I taught Malak Bay and let me tell you, Malak Bay has some gory real gory like shishaba. No was not mal but but but a lot of gore and I struggled to teach the takeaway from it because the kids were struggling with it. My eighth graders were starting rebi these are our sadikim these are the nim and I actually went to about this I went to a few I went to kitats about this I went to I went to >> great wow what a question let's hear what did they say >> soak almost slapped me across the face >> what's the matter with you he was screaming was galdi my my rub's father he thought I was nuts he's understand it was the rats on hashem that this is what should be done to them I said I know but like to to a kid today it Sounds barbaric. Barbaric. It's a m He thought I was mamishifer. He thought I was mamish off my rocker. >> Wow. >> And what a tatska tats told me that he struggles. He classicat I consider one of my such a good a holy Jew. He said I struggle with some of these questions but it bothers me that I struggle with them. >> Interesting. >> That's what he said to me. So I tried to like talk about first you know the fact that when when it is theem even if we don't appreciate how this seems pretty gory that's where comes obviously this is and the gory parts yeah so in terms of the anxiety I guess to the actual question I don't know that's up to the rabbi to teach it in a way that isn't so terrifying yeah don't turn off the lights when you're discussing you know that part of of Na'vi I mean B should not be that maybe not taught to fifth grade, but I don't think most eth grade. >> Yeah, eighth grade. >> Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I I think it from a moral just to like if I was teaching eth grade, what I would say is that the standards of war, right, it's like a it's a culture of the of the society of that time. They're standards. And today we have our own standards of war that are different than they were. >> But it gets very tricky. It gets very tricky. So, Reb, you're saying that the times of the those were immoral and incorrect. These are very hard. appropriate to behave within the context of your society. So they used to spit in shu. They used to like have these spatoon where you'd come at the shul and I don't know what exactly we could have your father-in-law do it for us cuz he's here. He could fully, you know, regurgitate. But if you did that in and spit on the floor if you did that today, it wouldn't be appropriate either. Abunam did it in 1812 in uh Texas or wherever they were. The answer is that that was appropriate then. It's not. So, I think that when it comes to war and the standards of war, it was a different time and they fought differently. They use swords, we use guns, you know, it's just different and um it takes out that moral. You're right. Today, if someone went and shish kebab someone, that might be a little aggressive, you know, could be. Could be. >> Yeah. >> Anyway, >> probably here's the sad part. The sad part is that there is no real phone number. I mean, you could you right I don't know why we're we could ask for no phone number. >> Yeah, we could say listen for next season we're >> No. Or could they they could just say thank you. they could leave wonderful messages about cross. >> We're always looking for feedback and anyway this is a very valued role that I have and I I have to do it or else you know it wouldn't feel like an episode. So I I I want to just I guess end by and let you have the final say as you always do that you know we consider it aus to to do what we do daily and this allows us to have a forum to be able to speak to people to hear from people and as we move forward to season 4 you know if those want to post in the chat and we can you know say it afterwards or talk about it privately what they want to see in season 4 as we continue but really um It's been three wonderful seasons. Hopefully the Kazak means something. We look forward to continuing this in the future. I I enjoy our back and forth together with you and our readers in Mishb Magazine and our listeners on the podcast. And you know, I enjoy what I do. I hope it's I think it is it's been an absolute pleasure. >> Yeah. And of course, a special shout out to the thousands of people who have come over to me and say, I like listening to you, but you always get Shfeld right and you always set him straight. So, thank you to those thousands of fans who get who listen with a smart ear. Okay, since I got the last word and I just wanted to mention that. Okay, so we will uh end with mentioning our email and phone numbers. The email is the learning [email protected]. One word, the learning [email protected] and you could call in and leave a voice note at 4436869339. That's 443-6869339. Rabari, have a wonderful Zimmer. >> Maybe I'll see you again in the summer. Take care. Have a wonderful summer.