Episode 14. Supporting His Learning. Supporting Him.

Welcome to Good Vibes, the podcast that brings the timeless beauty of Asia Kyle into the rhythm of real life. Each week, we unpack one puzz, but as a spark for honest conversations, refreshing insight, and a little tower light you can carry with you. Because meeting shouldn't feel heavy. And connection doesn't have to wait for quiet. This is good vibes for the Jewish woman who's doing a lot and still reaching deeper. Hello everyone and welcome back to the good vibes podcast. Today we're up to and states her husband is known in the gates sitting among the elders of the land. So this is the first time in Asia that we hear of her husband and when he is finally introduced we hear that he sits in the gates amongst the elders. The mut says and we see this in other places in Tanakh as well that the zakanim and sat at the gates. So the iss husband is one that is sitting amongst the at the gates. And furthermore, the Mabam adds and says that she will hold her husband's hand in his Torah learning until he will be a great man and sit amongst the Sanhedrin and the Zakanim. Meaning she will support him, hold his hand, quote unquote from the words of the Malim, encourage him in his learning until he will sit at the gates with Tom and the supporting your husband in his learning, building him up in his Torah at its source. The Malbam is teaching that word for word ask us holding his hand supporting him in his learning until he gets to a place where he could sit with the at the gates. We know that one of our rules as an ishal is supporting our husbands in their learning, encouraging, building up and this points to that. The malam says just that. So I want to take this opportunity with this Malbim to really understand what it means to again quote unquote by the words of the Malbim hold his hand in his Torah learning until he can and will sit with the rest of the what does this mean? What does this mean for us in 2026 today? Holding our husband's hand figuratively to build him up so that he can sit amongst the him at the gates. So today we have a very exciting and appropo guest with us. Mrs. Debbie Salingut is a veteran kala teacher and a trainer who mentors kala teachers and coaches parents and educators. She serves as the assistant principal of limu kodesh for fourth and fifth grades at bonos braha of pekk providing educational leadership and faculty mentorship. A sought-after speaker known for blending Torah insight with real life experience, Debbie brings warmth, clarity, and practical wisdom to her work. She baram is a wife, mother, and a grandmother as well. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. >> Thank you so much for inviting me. So excited. >> Thank you. This is very exciting. So, let's just jump right in. What do you I want to hear your thoughts on this pock as a kala teacher as somebody who teaches others what our role is. What do you think about this puck? >> Okay. So, Rai, what your introduction really point to something very important. I like the way you talked about holding his hand because I think that this topic of a woman's place in her husband's learning can create beautiful collaboration and it can create like significant conflict. So it's a very important topic. I think that women are given all kinds of messages about their place in their husband's learning. What's their role? Is their role supportive? Is their role stronger than supportive? Is their role less than supportive? Like where do they belong? So I think it's a great idea to to tackle that. So I think when we learn this pusk and when we teach this pusk and not just this pusk but this puss is really a big topic that girls spend a lot of time in their education on whether it be in in high school in their later years whether it be in seminary where there's a tremendous amount of emphasis put on this role that you're going to assume when you get married. Who are you in this relationship and where do you you know many of our couples start often in this learning world. Where is her place in this? So, it's not just this puss, but this puss is a beautiful, maybe it's even an invitation every Friday night for you and I and all the women that are listening to think about this again and am I doing what I can do in the most gentle way, in the most supportive way? Am I really being helpful? Am I thinking that I'm being helpful and I'm really not being helpful? Maybe that's why we have to hear it every Friday night. I'm I'm very excited about this idea. I think when we talk about a woman and her role in her husband's learning, I think that we have to realize that it's not a role that she is performing, it's a relationship that she's building. Meaning, my husband learning is not something I'm checking off my list. If my husband learns, I've succeeded at in a certain area in my life. It doesn't work that way. There's a relationship that I'm building. I'm not carrying my husband's learning. I'm I'm creating a home where his Torah can live and his Torah can thrive. So I think that just as a framework is important for us to understand because I think the women are very confused. Where do I fit into this picture? His learning thrives in safety. It doesn't thrive in scrutiny. And what we want to do as a college teacher, but also at our, you know, I'm sure that many of the women that are listening to this podcast are married women. Not just as a college but we want ourselves to understand that a husband's learning is deeply personal to our husbands and it's probably he knows that it's probably one of the ways we evaluated him before we married him. Right? His learning was a big deal to many of us even before we dated him. It was probably on the table as things we checked out, things we wanted to know, things we asked about. It's a common area of questioning. So he knows from the get-go that his learning has importance in your life. Right? This is just groundwork. This is basic. It's very personal to him. And comparisons, whether spoken or thought of, can be extremely hurtful to a husband in terms of learning, in terms of everything. But now we're zoning in on the learning. When a wife in her mind or in reality and in her words compares him to brothers, to friends, to neighbors, it's corrosive to the relationship. Respect allows growth. Pressure shuts things down. Pressure shuts things down. The mountain is too high to climb. I'm not going to do it. My job is not to measure his learning, but it's to protect the space around it. When I believe in a person, I validate him as a person and I build him as a person. When my husband's learning, the message he has to get from me is I hold of you as a person. I love you. I like you. Even without the learning, those validating messages that a husband gets from us of just respecting him as a person gives him the soil on which to grow his learning. So taking learning out for a second, you're a great person. I respect you. I love you. I like you. I like being with you is the soil that's going to help him grow in his learning as well. >> When you say as well, what's the other meaning? You say as well as in addition to >> in all areas of his in all areas of his if he knows that I honestly believe in you as a person. I think I I hold of you. I respect you. Then he's able to say a person like me will do great things. But if he doesn't feel like he has his wife's respect, growth stops right there. People grow when they when they feel good at what they're doing. People don't grow when they're feeling bad about what they're doing. So if we can honestly give the message not in a in a a flattery way, not in a superficial way, but I really do respect you for so many reasons, then things can take root and he can grow in all areas of his learning is your shamim in all areas. But it starts with the wife's opinion of her husband. If I think you are a person that can accomplish great things, >> it's beautiful. And I would add, correct me if I'm wrong, that this is for somebody whose husband is either fully learning or coaim and and incorporating learning in life where in whichever way >> 100%. Which leads me to the next point that there's a lot of image issues that girls have with their husbands learning if we're going to be honest. Right. As we get older, we kind of I don't know if it's stop caring or care less. There's a maturity to letting go what people think and honing in on my life, my situation, my circumstances, and what's good. Especially early in marriage, expectations can be very unrealistic. What we want to teach our young married women, our college, but also our young Marys, is to notice effort, not just output, right? Not in a patronizing way. Not like when a kid notices para sheet. That's not what we're talking about. But to really appreciate the effort and we're going to talk about how to show that appreciation also we want to normalize fluctuations in learning. There's a as we go through the years of marriage there's going to be fluctuations in how our husbands learn sometimes due to stress due to parasa strains or due to adjustment due to kavus not working out. There's all kinds of things that happens in the trajectory of life with our husband's learning and we want to normalize that. We want to ride those waves. We want to emphasize that you know to ourselves again the way we talk them has to it can't be patronizing it can't be babyish because they pick up on on the babyish kind of you know it it almost feels manipulative but to ourselves we have to emphasize that Hashem views effort hashem values effort he doesn't value perfection okay a third point I want to make is that support looks like shared clarity shared clarity Meaning, we're encouraging conversations about learning times and learning boundaries. What's working now? What adjustments do you need to make? What adjustments do I need to make? What does he need from me at this stage in life? How can I be more supportive of him? And what do I need from him at this stage of life? Fluctuations are part of marriage. There's going to be times when I'm more calm in the house. Things are more calm, and I'm going to be able to free him up to learn more. There's going to be times when I need his support more. I might need him at home more, physically at home. We have to understand things are not static. They they change. They change with where we're at in so many ways. And I want to normal I want to normalize that. I also want to normalize renegotiation as life evolves. Meaning right now it might work out for you to h have your husband have a 6 ama but after a baby or after a sim or a time of simka you might need your husband home those morning hours to help with younger children and we want to normalize the fact that things are going to change and we want to teach our women our young women our kalas and our young married that flexibility strengthens the marriage. Flexibility strengthens a marriage. Sometimes he might need more time. Sometimes I might need more time. Okay, so far so good. >> Love it. I love that. I That should be like a quote that we can just print and put up. Flexibility strengthens the marriage. >> It does. The tone I use matters. The words create an atmosphere. When a wife a wife says and how she says it can sting deeply. Just even comments like little comments about his schedule. Sometimes we think it's just a comment, but we have to watch our words. Our words can build him and our words can hurt him deeply. There's no one's opinion that matters to him more than our opinions of them. Sarcasm, jokes that can sting very deeply. Comments can be as hurtful to a husband as public comments. So again, back to the conversation, we have to have real honest open conversation in a mature way about what do you need? What do I need? But sometimes we think if I just make enough comments, if I just throw in enough like oneliners about it, he's going to and things are going to change. That doesn't help anybody grow in any way whatsoever. It's not helpful. What's helpful is mature conversation. If things are not working out with his learning schedule with for whatever reason, it's not the learning is not it's not where you want it, where he wants it, address it in a very mature, soft way. Again, this is a very deeply personal thing to him. Unspoken resentment erodess both his learning and shenan bias. I'm going to say it again. Unspoken resentment erodess his learning and erode shalom and bias. We want our kalas to notice signs in themselves and in him of internal overload. When someone just needs a break, it's great to say to your husband, I so much respect like the schedule that you're putting in with your learning, but I really feel you're so tired. Are you sure it's the best thing for you right now? And to be able to say that about myself. I'm not sure it's the best thing for me right now when that's the case. But I want to encourage young women to have respectful communication, not to be a martyr about it. to if something's not working. Let's bring it up in a in a respectful way, in a kind way. And we can even start off by saying, you know, I want to talk about something that's I don't know. I don't know how you're going to feel about this. It's just something I want to, you know, I'm not a guy. I don't learn. I don't understand so much of it, but I want to bring something up and, you know, tell me if I'm like off the path, you know, if I'm not understanding. And in some ways it's a part of my husband's life that as much of I'm a part of there's a big piece of it I'm not really gonna understand and I have to understand that myself I remember when we were newly married we were living in Sanj and we had a group of bakers and I I guess not having older brothers and being an out oftowner I didn't really know my place at the table with a bakra that was saying a dvar tora so he said this dvarra and the para or whatever it was and I had a question and I asked him a question and he said to me it's not a question and I said it is it's my question and he said it's not a question now I didn't know that was like bucker language for like it's clear the point is clear like I didn't understand that so my husband like looked at me and said Debbie like I'll explain it to you later like just drop it okay right there's a whole world out there I don't I'm never gonna understand. When we were first married, my husband used to come home from Shar from the Mir Shiva and I used to ask him what he learned and he looked at me like I don't even know what to say. Like my ax gores your sheep. He didn't know what to say. But like growing up like when we came over from school, my parents would ask us what we learned. So I just thought that's just like a normal way you have conversation with your husband. It it was I it took me a while to realize that it's a part of his life that yes I hold a very big place in but I'm really an outsider in many ways to it and it's sort of once I understood that it redefined my role in terms of his learning. I I guess what I want to say just to to sum up this part is that the support of his learning should not come at the cost of emotional honesty. Now, obviously, I have a filter and obviously I think about what to say and how to say it. But if it's not working for me, ultimately he's going to get those feelings. He's going to get those vibes. Right. Right. He's going to get those feelings and it's not going to work for him. If I fall into martyrdom and I fall into fine, you could go that that that's not a way to send a husband to learn. So, there has to be honest conversation and real conversation about how is this working for you? How is this working for me? >> It's beautiful. I think that in today's day and age, we could always hear more of not being martyrs. And that doesn't mean that instead we're all just going to go on vacations and massages every day, but to encourage open communication, honest communication, like what you were saying, to hopefully encourage learning and to create an environment where it's safe and secure, where Torah can really blossom like what you were saying, >> right? who you said is so important that sometimes you know we think when we think about self-care I think it's interesting you brought it in like we tr we do have to take care of ourselves but sometimes we try to plug a lot of holes with things that are not in the moment they feel good but they're not really taking care of oursel when we talk about self-care I I believe and I'm not negating those things and there's a place for them but so the idea of taking care of yourself really I believe comes from living a life that has meaning has purpose and has joy. >> Beautiful >> with in the life that we're living. Meaning, there's times we need perks and there's times we need, you know, something fun and something exciting and something out of the ordinary and something to be taken care of, you know, to that we should feel taken care of. But ultimately, a way a person takes care of themselves is to look at their life and ask themselves, does my life have purpose? Does my life have meaning? Does my life have joy? Am I feeling energized by my life? as their hislavas in a very real way that I'm excited about the day and it's not always going to be an easy day. There's days that are very difficult and there's tufas that are very difficult but overall if I feel that my life has purpose then it's hashem that's going to translate into a person that that's happy and it comes from really understanding our roles in marriage. When we understand our roles, we and we let go of expectation, we lead a much happier life. When we hold on to what should be or what we thought is going to be, it just leads to unhappiness. The terms of marriage that were decided in some hotel lobby, whether it was 5 years ago or 10 years ago or 40 years ago, they don't really matter in life. Life happens. And as my husband goes through changes and as I go through changes and our families go through changes and as our finances go through changes and his health goes through changes and and family circumstances go through changes. We have to re recalculate you know what do we need now? What does the family need now? What does my husband need now? What do I need now? What can I give more of? How can I be more giving to him at this stage in his life? How can I ask for more? What do I need more? And he thinks that when we are very clear in our roles, it comes with an with a with a tremendous sim. People that are not clear on their roles are always struggling to find their role. They're always struggling to figure out who am I and what should I be doing? And we're so grateful to have something like Asia that of course it's a praise, but it's also a definition of who I am and what my goals are and what are the things that are ultimately going to bring me the happiness that I look for in life. It's beautiful. And I think that this exact point actually goes back to what you were saying way at the beginning that our husband's learning is not like a check box, which many women do on a daily basis of, okay, make suppers, make lunch, clean up, send the kids off, go to work, you know, buy groceries. We check everything off. At least I do. And I like this perspective shift of your husband learning is not a checkbox. It's not a checkbox. It's an overarching thing that's in our lives that >> we aim for, we strive for. It's not a checkbox. >> Right. And just to take what you're saying one step further, a husband is not his learning schedule. A husband is not his learning schedule. His learning schedule is a part of who he is. It will be stronger at times. It will need space at some times. and going back to the core of who he is and what's great about him and what I respect about him and what I love about him and what he teaches me and what he teaches others and what he stands for. That's the core of his personhood. And his learning schedule is something that's going to change over and over again. And there's times, like I said, when I can give more and I can and I have more give and there's times when I need him more. There's times when I'm feeling more independent and there's times when I'm feeling more dependent and that's okay. That's all part of the rhythm of life. I'm not responsible for the outcomes. I'm responsible for the shias. I'm responsible for building this person just as he's responsible for building me. And this marriage is a partnership between he and I. It's not a performance. It's not like we're handed a script and said re you know this is your part, this is her part. It's always evolving. It's always changing. It's so interesting because I just met up with a friend recently and she was saying how she feels like it's a little bit almost unfair or hard for her I should just say that you know she made this commitment when she was in seminary that she wanted this a guy and learning but now years down the line where she has children bar hashem and she just switched different jobs and she's living in a place where she doesn't know so many people she said like how come it's hard to make that same commitment that I made when I was single inspired listening in classes to what's happening now. And I very kindly and I respectfully I was telling her I said I think that just because we make a decision years and years ago doesn't mean that there's no conversation or renegotiation or recalibration of our relationship because life happens and that we need to take that into consideration >> and it works both ways. You know, sometimes a husband can really have dreams of staying, you know, in the learning world for very long or finding a place in the world of learning or in the place of Torah, in the place of a base maj. And circumstances change and he's not that's not where he's going to find himself. And we need to be flexible and say that's what we thought would happen, but this is actually what is happening. And you know to quote my mother, she always says, "Our job is not to write the script. Our job is to read the script." Well, meaning whatever circumstance Hashem gives us to do the best we can do with those circumstances. >> Beautiful. I love that. I love that script. >> If I can, I want to just point out something else in the Pik that I thought was also it. It's interesting wording and it's something to think about. Mild Bashar Embala means I mean the way the Pik sounds I don't know if it means he's learning at the gates of the city or he I mean it literally means he's known at the gates of the city but it doesn't mean that the that his learning and his wife are two separate entities. The wife gives tremendous stability to his learning and the wife can give a tremendous amount of security to his learning. I once read something that you know like I always say after 120 years I have a lot of questions for a lot of people that I want to ask that have already passed on to the Ola Emis it says in the Rabbitson Kany book that Raim used to learn better when she was in the house that that's how he learned better he learned best when the rabbitson was in the house to the point where she did not visit her elderly parents often and she didn't there were some she didn't go to because learns better when I'm home I'm so curious as to what she did or what how she managed. He was a raim meaning he became who he was because of the calm that she brought to the home with her in it. He didn't run to a base maj all day. He learned in the home with her presence and her calm. I I must talk to her about this after 120 years. >> Please, I want to be part of that conversation. Please. >> Yes. I think it's such an incredible it's almost like a small story in the story but in in the book but it's such a big thing to me meaning there's something that we can create there's something we can do in the house there's a there's a tone there's a mood there's a feeling there's an emotion in the home that actually is going to enhance his learning to the point where that's where he learns best better than the base madish that to me is just you know when I thought about those words no dasharala It's not two separate things. He's known in the gates. It doesn't mean that he's always learning somewhere else. There's a learning that takes place at the dining room table hopefully, you know, with a simka, hopefully with a sing song kind of voice. But it doesn't mean that the wife physically disappears from his learning. We want to be able to somehow create a a a condition and a home where he's able to learn in our home. It's so beautiful for us to hear that learning. It's so beautiful for children to hear that learning. But we have to think if we want that to happen, what do I need to create a place or a space where that can really happen? >> So beautiful. I had a teacher in seminary and she with tears in her eyes would tell me she said it's the biggest form of nah for me that I come home and I see my husband learning with my son. She said but it's not just my husband and my son. Rashba's there and Rash's there and Tostus is there all on on my kitchen table and I had that like image in my head for so many years and it's exactly what you're saying this beauty of having Torah in our home and we see that from Rafim and from Rabbi Syvski. >> Right. Right. I just I want to mention because that's a beautiful thing your teacher said and I always feel like when we speak about these things I think we have to tell you know we have to be able to tell women that if that's not what they're seeing right now it doesn't mean it's not going to be. It just means right now they might not have that setup in their home. But I do believe that with with thought and with calm and with conversation, I feel like we there's no bar that that's the bar like that it's good if it's here and it's not good if it's there. I think we need to be mazic at ourselves that wherever we're at, we can get it to be a little better. Meaning if I understand that my respect for him is something that's going to contribute to his learning, then I have a starting point for myself. Where can I work on respect? I'm not going to work on pressuring his learning, that doesn't work. But if I know that respecting him more as a person, loving him more as a person, going out of my way for him more as a person, those are foundations to help his learning, then that I can certainly work on. What happens next, we'll see. But I can do things that put him in a better headsp space as a person which will open him up more to be able to learn more. Meaning my steadiness, my respect and my done in the right way is something that's going to give his learning more context. >> Beautiful meaning focusing on the things that are in our control. >> Exactly. my contribution is often going to be very quiet, but it can be deeply formative. Even if it's very quiet and I think we have to remember that because I think that if we're thinking what can I do? What can I do? I think be sometimes women like to fix things sometimes. What can I do about his learning schedule? I think we have to like take that pressure off the system and say what can I do in me that will get things to a better place that will make them feel more secure in the marriage and more respected. >> So beautiful and can I ask you something that comes to mind is why do you think that this is the first that we hear about the husband in Asia and why do you think that you know it's interesting to me that the first time we hear about the husband is talking about his learning and in the and that he's known in the gates. Why do you think that you know the first time we hear about him is here in in this context >> in this context or why did it take to none to get >> say both? I don't know about the second part, but my if I had to guess something about the first part, I would say that there's a development in Asia about who we are as women and where do I grow and where am I putting my focus and every one of the letters that you're you know exploring with different guests about I I am sure over and over if a lady follows this podcast and she follows the olive base of Asia then I become more and more aware of where I can develop myself as a wife and where I can develop myself as that aerdo and as that partner. When I am developed in all those ways, then we come to a place where my husband can develop as well. It's not two different things. I'll get on with my business and he'll get on with his business. We're very intertwined. who I am and where I'm at in my personal development is very much where he's at and it's very it leads him to where he needs to go and it leads him to who he needs to be and who he can be and my guess is that it takes all the way to nun and all those letters of development going back to Bala right that like he has faith in me he has security in me you know each one of the letters I believe is going to give another component to a wife so that she develops into the person herself that he therefore has the confidence and the strength and the ambition to be able to go out and develop himself. >> That's so encouraging. That's so encouraging for me to hear. >> That's totally my own take. I don't know if it's correct, but it's just, you know, when I think about nun, we're like, you know, much of the way through the olive phase. >> I I I love that. I definitely also I relate being almost like a journey. how every puzz is teaching us something else. Teaching us something about ourselves, about who we are, who we want to be with hopes to become. And I love this idea that by the time we get to nun, we want to create that environment for our husband. >> Right. Right. I think we are so lucky and so fortunate to have a Torah and to have an asyle and to have a Tanakh that really gives us the recipes for were good relationships in every relationship, parent to child to parent, husband to wife in every area of our lives. We're very fortunate to have guidance and to know if you want to have success in marriage, if you want to have a calm marriage and a nurturing marriage, follow these steps and learn from this. And you're going to you're going to see that something beautiful is going to come from it. Just as we're wrapping up, I want to ask you to everybody who's listening, if I want to take what you're saying, make it practical in my life. What's a practical tool that you know something small or tip that we can implement in our lives and that it won't be overwhelming based off based on what you were saying today. One practical tip I believe is open communication about his learning but about so many things. I think you know have a the opportunity to speak to many rabb there are phenomenal out there and oneass rebi told me something I think I actually heard it from more than one that during sha he advises his to sit down with their kalas afterdalah every week for sure for sha but really we could do it forever and just say how are we doing how are we doing how is things going for you how is my schedule how is your potential. What do you feel about, you know, when I'm coming home? How is it working out sharing a car? How is it working out? Stay home for Shabbasim. How is it working out? You know, whatever it is. And every week so that we don't drift apart. And resentment doesn't build. And just check in with each other. How is this working for you? And specifically, as we're talking about his learning, and we mentioned this before, to check in, how is this working for you? Is it am I freeing you up enough or right now I'm needing something different from you? And I think that if we communicate more and we talk more, first of all, we'll appreciate him and we'll appreciate how hard it is to learn and what it takes out of them. And he'll appreciate what we need in in a non-dramatic, mature, non-hysterical conversation of this is just what I'm needing right now. And I think that open conversation will allow us to to come up with schedules and redo schedules and increased learning time and increase time I need help over and over again. And that together that shows him tremendous respect. And that's the second piece is when he feels like I really respect your learning. It's not like it's just free time. You're out of the house. You're away from the house. You're away from the kids. You know you it's you know friends time. It's guy time. I have tremendous respect for learning. I don't think I could learn for 20 minutes without taking a break. I really don't. I don't think I I don't have I don't have that power of concentration. And I think if we understand this is really a lot of hard work. It's very tiring. And when a husband needs to rest after a seder, after learning, he really needs it. He really does. And I don't think women understand that. So if we can increase our respect for Islaming and be able to have open conversations, I think that we will see growth in this area and our marriages. >> Beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us and taking time out of your very busy schedule and coming on the podcast. I've gained a tremendous amount. I'm sure those listening gained a tremendous amount. If you want to receive Mrs. Salingut's monthly newsletter, you can go to Debbie Salingut. t e bb b i e s e l ng gu.com and sign up for the monthly newsletter. >> Every month we just explore a practical idea that will enhance your own personal life, your own personal growth and your relationships. >> Beautiful. I'm going to sign up right now. Thank you again for joining us, Mrs. Selenut. And thank you all for joining us. >> Thank you. Keep up work Rael. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Please reach out and email us with any questions or thoughts. We would love to hear from you. Stay tuned for some more good vibes.