Mishna Berura DH Siman 55 Seif 13-15 Can A Man In the Women's Section Be Counted Toward the Minyin

okay good morning everyone we're continuing in we're learning we're middle of the says that all 10 people have to be in one place with the with them so so far what we saw in the Misha is that even the 10 people even if they can't see each other if they're in one house which we learned means one room um it's okay but if some are in one room and some are in another room they do not join even with a door open because it's not breached and the opening of the door is considered like two separate rooms even without any door a doorway is considered a heick if they're in two separate rooms um if they don't see each other they are not and some are M even if they see each other in other words it's not an ideal situation sorry one second it's not an ideal situation separate rooms even when they see each other the fact that they're in two separate rooms itself is enough of a reason to uh to split them apart okay um let's start from they all 10 need to be nine are in the house and one in the some say they join some dispute that you have nine in one place and one behind the curtain that you spread out just for modesty it joins out that's only if it was spread for modesty but if there's and you spread out a not just for modesty but Hally so that one it's for a minion now if you're in one room and there's a movable like they do for a says they are not okay so this is very common you could have a uh you're in a sh where they don't we fill in by and you have a guy and you have nine people and you have one guy in the back behind the he's wearing he's not part of the minion he's not part of the minion so you need to make meaning he's not m to the minion so you need to make sure you have 10 in the sh proper cuz the guys behind M are not M starve to the minion they're doing with the minion but they're not part of the minion so all you people not on this year but people you need to tell maybe some people you know not that you would even be friends with these kind of people but maybe you have friends that are friends with people that D in the Ladi section so tell them the Ladi section is for ladies yeah everybody has to know M what their gender is men belong in the men's section women belong in the lady's section so in other words it's still ding with the minion I don't I'm not clear if it's or not in other words they're definitely not M whether it's full-fledged daving with a minion um that's another story now some say well it's cabal shabas you're right cabal shabas you don't need a minion and the truth is depends why you go to sh if you only go to sh to be able to tell your wife that you went to sh then taka you could go to you might as well go to the coffee room then you know cuz that you could also tell your wife you went to sh technically you went to the sh but the you got to be in the room that's the thing even a movable is M for a Min according to okay but let's see the the continues someone who's within the doorway from the threshold and outside that is when you close the door someone who stands in the doorway from the doorpost and they in other words you have like a a lip the lip is what the door catches on it so when you close the door from the place of the lid the inner lid of the thickness of the door and to the outside is like the outside so from the thickness the inner thickness of the width of the door and the outside is like the outside says in the place of the closing of the door it's like the outside even though now the door is open so even though right now the door is open but from the place of the inner thickness of the door and to the out is like the out says some dispute this and he agrees with them that it's like the inside look in the also that if the is in the doorway they are it's not any worse than a small courtyard that's breached into the big so until now we were learning that two different rooms are not the reason is is because a doorway is what if it's a um you want to know doesn't by the no I didn't say you don't getor I just said you're not part of theor meaning you can't be M to be number 10 but if they have 10 so you're you're you're possibly daving with a minion in other words uh you're davening you're allowed to answer you're allowed to answer but you're not m to the Minion Okay so again when there are two different rooms and there's just a doorway of an opening it severs the connection but if it's breached in other words it's a very wide opening then it could be considered one area again that's the of the M the says the people in the doorway are not the disputes that says the writes that the hollow of the door besides the place of the door for example where the door is set on the outside and from the place of the door and within there is a empty space within the thickness of the door so basically let's say you have a very thick doorway let's say the doorway is two feet and the doors are toward the outside and they open to the outside so then technically those who are in the space of the those who are in the space of the doorway would be considered within according to everyone you could rely on this even though then in his opinion even in this case it's like the outside nevertheless even without this in other words even though the prim implies that argues on what the Y says and he says the the space of the doorway is like the outside but it's not Pas that we hold like okay let's see someone who's behind and there's a window between them even if it's many stories tall even if it's not for even if it's not for wide and he shows his face from there so now we find the that it's hard to see how it's consistent with what we learned in because the guy's outside of the sh and there's a window and it's a tall window and it's not a wide window he could join up roof upper stories is not part of the house someone who stands on it is not m so why in si giml where the Miss bre said that if you're in two different rooms the that even if you're in two different rooms even if you see each other they are those who are M but here we're learning that if there's a window and they see each other that allows you to be M even from the end of the room by the way the he says should be that if it's a different even if you see each other it doesn't work so I guess we'll have to see here in says even though there's a he's waving he's saying hi hi you see me he's jumping up and down he's pressing his nose against the window right he's flattening his cheek against the window you see him it's like what we say later some see each other explains because since whenever you have 10 Jews the is there and is on the face like we find BYU therefore seeing the face is like seeing the whole body interesting that the the purpose of a minion is to bring and the is on the face when I was a bck I once asked vior Miller how do we know that Salam elim is on the face and he said I already explained that many times but I think um I think he explained it to me a little bit okay anyway it's interesting the I is on the face now according to this it would come at those who are in the ladies section and has a window and you could see the face M they could join for a minion now first of all well what e has a window where you could see the face so obviously the M did not have a style um M meaning and it wasn't a one-way window cuz you then you can't see their face it must be it was let's say 5T tall with the face on top of it meaning that means the is being where could see someone's face which is interesting then they join but by the way most EZ today they don't rely on that you know maybe you know in mosts they're on a full-fledged and certainly if there's 10 without you it's considered doing with a minion if they could see your face nevertheless if it's uh it's better if you could easily go down that you should go down now here the Mish is not saying it with such a fierce language he's saying if it's e if it's easy to go down you should go down by the way writes that even if the es is on the Level Playing Field you should D in the men's section because even though it's considered it does not have the full Mala of so you wanted to know if somebody is putting on and they're behind and make are they ding with minion yes do they have the full Mala of ding with a minion I don't think so but that doesn't mean they're allowed to go in because if they go in they're over so the best thing is I guess if they could find a minion of people who do what they do but why is it better to go in some argue on this whole and they say they you cannot compare this to Z and seeing will not help okay let's see this more to but it seems like seeing each other being able to see May works and one it's better to be not to rely on that so again if you're in a woman's section that they can't see you then it does not work you can't Dave in there if they can see you it's better not to Dave in there okay we'll hold it over here what about Zoom where I could see you but that's not