Mesila Presenation at Bais Medrash Ohr Chaim - Teaching Children A Healthy Hashkafa On Money

so my name is schl ODS I work for in my afternoons I learn in the mornings and uh I work in there for the head office of msila we have operations all around the world it's an international organization I know that one of one person in our audience here is very very familiar with msila um I just want to get a bit of a sense who who here besides uh well there actually two people now that see another person you're here because of miss you here because of the topic who here is familiar with Milla if I give you know okay never heard of M who came because of the topic okay so msila I just give you a very brief uh very very brief background U msila was set up out 25 years ago in is as a loan consolidation gak initially and what happened was the couple our chairman Shulas still our chairman um him and another fellow raised money he raised the money to help youngite AR him in K who was struggling unfortunately not much has changed some things Chang we managed to change some things but not completely still have a similar situation but kind of long story short like they've got this let's help them out give them bit of hopefully also and um what they realized very very very quickly was the same people were coming back because bottom line is no prizes for guessing they were dealing with a symptom and not the cause so he stopped overnight giving money and said clearly the issue here is not how much money you have it's how you actually manage your finances so that's how mtila was born really it's to help people manage their finances and from there develop t m a path a a uh a process through which we can help families manage their finances and and become financially independent that's really what we want to do and help people achieve either Financial Independence and or financial Serenity be very calm and in control of your finances we train we have our own coaches we train our coaches I'm a active msila coach um all over the world we have operations of course in in Hebrew and in English and we have also in the UK in the states various we have we have coaches all over um and uh we also have in South Africa we have an an an international organization from there we develop we also besides for the coaching itself and this is a bit of a segment to what we're doing now is we have another arm an educational arm and that includes education within schools we have a financial literacy curriculum which is taught in many school schools andad Shiva katanas and high schools here in mon we have a number and uh well over 150 schools high schools of various sorts across the Spectrum all over all over the states uh mostly in the tri-state area it's not un you know won't surprise you but we also do a lot of workshops and we try and we're a nonprofit so we try and educate as much as we can and create the awareness so what I'm what I'm here to do is not to preach in spite of the fact that my background is was a community Rob in England for many years but that's not what I'm that's not the Hat I'm wearing I'm not here to preach I'm here to educate I'm here to share I'm here to share different things that we can maybe take on board and adapt in our own lives particular and specifically within the area of um children and money now this this although it wasn't advertised in this way this particular talk we in Milla call it don't just say no and really what we're trying to achieve is we have a tendency and it's quite normal and quite natural to just say no the question is how do we how do we say other things besides no and how do we educate our children um in a in a different way not just to say no uh and you we'll see different strategies of of how to do it there are a few trigger videos that I have so that way you won't have to listen to me the whole time which is also quite helpful but ultimately um money whether we like it or not is uh very much part of our Lives most people do like it in one way shape or form and that's maybe some of the challenge and some of the issue is that we like it a bit too much but that's not what I'm here to discuss at this uh uh today but rather try to um see what we want to get to a point is try to relate to money in a very technical unemotional way and look at it in a way that it doesn't it's not the be all and end all of what we are and what we do it doesn't Define who we are but it's a technicality it's something that happens to be part of our lives that that we we need to do need to use it we need to spend it we need to do lots of different things but how can we do it in a healthy way and in a very practical way and in a in a mature way that removes the emotional baggage as much as we can so there's a very famous uh story you may be well aware of it that the desla family of desla um have to this day have a suitcase they keep in their family a suitcase that's been passed down ever since the Bolshevik Revolution of 1918 and in this suitcase is full of anybody know the story no this is my test to see who knows the story or not right it's full of bills money full of bills why would any family hand down a suitcase full of bills well the story behind this particular suitcase is that R Le desla his father of rind do desla was a very wealthy Timber Merchant um as well as a tremendous Bala just you knowla had already from home with this he didn't just start suddening and with the instability that was rocking Russia at the time so ruen do turned all his assets into cash and put it in a suitcase to protect the financial well-being of his family but then well one of the first things of shik did was to cancel all old currency which rendered their money overnight completely worthless they had an entire and they were and and they were poverty stricken when they poverty stricken they that was that they didn't have any they weren't able to use it and what they did is they kept this suitcase to remind them and you know everybody else as well us as well how worthless money really can be and the only real worth of money and what they wanted to reinforce and to remind ourselves is really what it can accomplish if it can't accomplish anything then it's not worth anything etc etc and ultimately what we need to be able to do is to use it where we can and where we have the opportunity as a tool for serving Hashem and for being a good person so that wouldn't surprise you coming from B Musa like the desla family so we all know that money isn't the key to happiness and we all know that the more we have you know more the more that we have the more we want yes we're very familiar with those particular expressions and that particular attitude and we've all heard I'm sure statistics about you know that there's a zero correlation between happiness and lots of money necessarily by the way you might want to look up a 2008 it's a while ago but still still re re uh it's still relevant 2008 article in Science magazine that spending on yourself doesn't make you happy but what they do say is that spending on others sure does so we just need to bear that in mind when we're talking about spending money and and a zero correlation between the spending of money and having a lot of money and happiness as well so looking around though looking around the world we see that lots of people although we know this and we can talk about it and most people if you discuss it with them I'm not going to argue with you necessarily very much but at the same time if you look at the you know and the there's two very different worlds in our head we know this but somehow if you look around the world it doesn't seem to be that that's translating into the way people and the way sometimes we are overly obsessed with money in ways that won't get get us happiness and um in the way that we're looking for necessarily in a very real meaningful way and if that's true with adults it's certainly true with kids and that's really where we're going to start looking at today and this morning in the time that we have children and money because ultimately if we want our kids to grow up with the right attitudes towards money we need to teach them in three ways by explaining by experience and by example so we explained first of all the right way to deal with money and how careful we must be with other people's money and other people's money and possessions and how to do mitus with money what what is our responsibility we have a responsibility um when it comes to money so that's in terms of the explaining but then also we need to enable them to experience it explaining it is not good enough we need to then go to the next level and enable them to experience how to you know the hand how to handle money properly when it comes to saving it when it comes to spending it using allowance giving mea earning all the different things we need to actually give them a way to be able to experience it in a healthy way and that's part of what I'm going to share with you is the strategies to be different strategies to be able to do this and ultimately we need to set an example because we can explain all we like and we can give them all the experiences in the world but if we're you know coming home from sure talking about what everybody's wearing men or women for that matter where it's the women talking about what the women are wearing or what the men are talking about you know what then it's not going to work we can explain but if we don't show if we don't we're not a we don't live by that example and what we are interested in is how much things cost and what brand people are wearing and what the latest fashions are then it's not going to help with the children in ma m however much you want to try and explain to them and however much we want to give them the experiences of being able to have a healthy attitude towards money and certainly from a tah hashkafa perspective so as I said earlier msila is an organization that teaches people children and adults um how to deal with money in a way that contributes to our well-being and because we firmly believe and experienc and know from the engagement we have with family and the coaching that we do that there you know and everybody really knows this that Financial stress impacts on every single area of Our Lives it affects relation affects mental health it affects physical health it affects relationships relationships between couples relationship with children the tension there is not just about finances if there's tension of finances then it will spread everywhere else as well and we want to try and have a healthy approach to to to to money because if we do then will have a healthier life as say me emotionally and physically teach financial literacy and we encourage people to have Financial Independence and to have um the healthy attitudes that will enable Financial stability and that means ultimately that money will take its rightful place it's not ignored we don't see it as like a an evil something that's evil or anything like that we know that Torah doesn't so if Torah doesn't soever we don't um but we need to be able to uh and money is important we can't live without it there's no question about that but we also can't what we're trying to do is ensure that we're not worshiping money and that we are dictating to the money as opposed to the money dictating to us um and we see it as a say just a necessity with certain things we need to have we need to have you know safety pins sometimes so if we need more safety pins we go and buy more safety pins again let just see see it in a in a way that's a a technical necessity um worth getting more if we need it and then coming up with a solution if we don't have enough right that's what we want to do and we call this series don't just say no in this uh this uh this presentation and we'll focus today there's lots of areas we can talk about and I've touched on some of them but I'm going to try and focus now on how parents can convey the right attitudes about money to their children without having to say no no no um the whole time now money habits don't uh begin and end with the state of our bank account we know that it's not just about finances Adam nikar B three things but one of them as you know is as we can tell a lot of a lot about a person with a way in which they deal with money what they spend their money on how they deal with money is Adam Nik and we will learn today six tools that have to do with how we can and strategies and tools that we can engage with our children in terms of having a healthy attitude towards money and the secret here which you may have figured out already is that we're not just teaching our children ultimately we're teaching ourselves and it all starts with us if if we model these strategies then we've got half a chance of imparting them and sharing them with our children to be able to grow up in a way that we want them to have as I said their healthy attitude towards money um let's just have a look at here give a chance to pause [Music] I don't know about you guys but until very recently my wife and I were locking horns with our kids over Money Matters just about every single day it was the same refrain over and over mommy find me will the other kids have it you promise it's on sale no no no that's all I was saying day in and day out didn't do much for our relationship as you can imagine didn't work either and besides I didn't want money to be such a focal point I was at my wit's end but guess what kids can learn about money and how to use it without confrontations and without frustration why don't you just step right in and join me while I show you how I almost deleted no from my dictionary and live to tell about it okay so as I said earlier we uh the title of this is don't just say no because as the the father in the cartoon said um as parents we find ourselves using that two-letter word probably more often that we would like to but we don't really have Alternatives and we don't always necessarily know what to do other than just saying no and it's just it's not just with money you know it's true for ultimately the tools that I'm sharing here are not exclusive to money it's just we're applying them to money but you can apply them really to many areas of parenting and many areas of life as well and and and what we need to do is try to ensure that we are um effective in getting messages across and not just by saying no so the question is how um how will we teach it to them what are we going to do if we do it only by saying no no no don't do this don't do that Etc then you that's not the way to act then we might get cooperation in that moment in time but that's not we're not going to educate them in in the long run and for themselves and also equally crucial is what does what what effect is that going to have on the relationship ship and our relationship with our uh children so what do we so what do we do instead here the alternative okay so we don't say no so then we let them just have whatever they want right that's also not what that's not what we try to hear we're going to hear to to learn so our goal is to gradually get them to do the right thing on their own that's ultimately what we're trying to achieve over here and that's the gist of these strategies and these tools that we're going to go into in a moment is to help us find alternatives to to Really instill the values and instill the guidelines and the constraints that we want our children to have and the reason why we're saying no is because we feel it's a no but then there's lots of different reasons what what are the backgrounds to the know and try and understand that for ourselves and then be able to share that with with our children to be able to help them have a different approach and to be able ultimately for them to say no to themselves that's really where we're trying to get if we can share if we can communicate with them in such a way that they won't hear no from us but they understand from what we're saying that this is not the right thing to do or there may be an alternative and they say it to themselves that's the ultimate because they're making that choice and then it's more effective it also is more effective on our relationship with them and it's more effective in the long term in terms of the and what's likely to happen later on in their in their lives okay so the found the first thing in the foundation is we'll see the uh the first cartoon [Music] I'm I to pick the one without the uh intro you did the intro I did the intro already see one no intro there we go giving kids the opportunity to make independent money decisions can give them a whole new perspective how did I get this job again shopping with shimmy for school supplies last year was such a nightmare well at least this time we did our homework have some idea of the basic costs involved let's see if this new system will work F do I need a lot of stuff ABA notebooks and loose leaves and markers and a pencil case me too me too no you don't Doby you just need a lunch box and crayons Jimmy this year you can decide what to buy really whatever I want well everything you need and even some extras as long as you have enough money EMA figured out that a basic set of school supplies costs about $50 I'm giving you $65 and a list you decide whether you want plain pencils and a fancy set of markers or plane markers in a cool notebook it's your call $65 that's a ton of money you're rich look at that you set up a situation to avoid confrontation and having to say no all the time and the real plus is that shimmy is developing Financial awareness by having to make his own decisions within his spending women okay so um very cute I hope is it to what extent is it practical so interestingly um this first strategy in terms of limited structured Independence or limited autonomy is something that we are very as Yen and from we're very very familiar with because that's how our whole lives run right has run on that basis we are told that we have within certain constraints we can do certain things and we can't do other things so it's something that it's it's already part of our Lives it's already part of this Liv but their lives that we're taking that principle and applying it in um you know to this particular area in terms of dealing with money so for example uh we can we know we have free choice we have we have free choice but does that mean we can do absolutely anything we want from a yish point of view no there are certain limitations that and puts on us to be able to do or not do certain things right we within Hally acceptable boundaries we are have free choice to earn money right to earn whatever whatever we want to do can we um you know we can choose our occupation and we can choose how much time we spend on it um and how much Sak we want to give and so on but at the same time there are boundaries but it's not completely that we can earn what however we want to earn our money there are certain things we're not allowed to do so we see that um again and again with this we sh you know in every area of of our of our Jewish life one of one of the examples I like to compare it to is like you know pizza pie so we have our pizza pie and we can decide you know which toppings to have it we can decide how to cut it up and which portion but that's all we have right I can't go if I want more I can't go and take my neighbor's pizza because that's not mine the reality is this is the amount we have and therefore within the constraints of this is the p that I have how am I going to slice it that you can give them Independence and to be able to choose whatever they want to do depending on the circumstances and it's really about introducing kids to uh budgeting and that's actually what budgeting is all about whether it's dealing with money whether it's dealing with time whether it's dealing with energy right that we have a limited resource we have a limited amount of all each of these things and and that's piz our pie and what we want to try and do is we have autonomy to decide how to use our resources within the limited boundaries in our mentioned earlier we have education curriculums we have a junior high school we have high school curriculum in our Junior High School we have an act very cool activity there it's very fun for the kids where they simulate going to an amus amusement park for 3 hours and there's a chart showing how long you have to wait for each of the attractions and how long the ride actually is and they have to work out together to decide how they want to budget how they want to use their three hours know do they wait an hour then you know go on the for a chance to go on the big roller coaster or do they go to the bumper cars and then that's only 10 minutes online um and the concept there is about limited resources and deciding how to use them and as that syns in then we're ready to apply that to budgeting money uh as well and you'll find many opportunities to be able to do this and low tension opportunities to be able to give them say okay this is your resource this is what you have you choose right so and you can try this you can know whether it's buying you know buying candy for I'm English but I'm I'm getting they thinking to translate as I'm going along but you buy candy for you know for Shas whatever it may be if there's an opportunity that there needs to be and you can send them say okay this is the amount of money and then when they call you and they say you know can I just buy the soundsticks for another two it's only another $2 right out of however much you're going to give them whatever it is say he going to give them $20 I'm just making it right you round numbers they say it's only another $2 doesn't seem like such a huge amount of money in the scheme of things right so some what you going to you can either say no or you can say yes or you can say based on this resour this strategy that we just uh learning about now what could you say instead not ack make some space for the sou sticks in your with you say you say yes with pleasure but you need to cut something else out if you that's really what you want to what you want to buy the S sticks because un hate but then what El you going to give up instead and then they start getting an as sent and you'll soon you'll soon see it right where they come over there then they can make their choices but you haven't spent more than the $20 you also haven't said no you've said yes but and you've given them you have empowered them to be able to make those choices make those decisions without actually affecting your your pocket and affecting your relationship and without having to said the word no to them at all so it's a way in which you can do it and there's many many different times and many many different ways um that there you know you could do and as I say this is a strategy that if they get used to this that you can apply with them not just to money you can apply it to time and you can apply it to energy and you can apply it to so many different things in our relationship with our children from a parenting perspective in this case we've just applied it to the concept of money and the concept of autonomy within boundaries which as I say is a tool as a tool for life um some parents may think well you know limiting children uh you're taking away their childhood and you know their Carefree life and so on and so forth but the reality is as uh you know any parenting uh expert which I'm not will tell you is that kids crave boundaries they might try and push the boundaries they might kick against them but ultimately what's the healthiest thing for children is to have structure and is to have boundaries and it's not just about saying yes completely and it's not B saying about saying always no because as we know from Ab and we know from which is to the extreme can ruin a child and you can have from there a and from which is no to the extreme is also not the I'm judging or or criticizing the other that's not what I'm but you principle talk about this right and therefore you can have as that comes from that as well what you need is a yak is a way in which you can do in a beautiful way still say the same things but in a in a different way that's one strategy that we have as to be able to give them structure which is what they crave um and what they need and what they will thrive on but in a way that still doesn't affect the the end result which is the point that you're doing which is the limited resources that they what you have and therefore they have let's go to the next one every adult knows that some purchases take priority over others but your kids will only learn that rule by applying it themselves ABA can I use your phone H $10 another $6 no I won't have enough for the fancy notebooks unless I use my pencil case from last year it's in decent condition I think it's a good trade-off new pencil case out cool notebooks in that's terrific shimmy you just made a great discovery you'll always have everything you need but only some of what you want wow look at this great stencil set get that Jimmy even if it means you have to buy the plain Market can I ABA take a look is it on the list H NOP if it's not on the list we're not buying it today goby Pati me I have an idea just buy everything you want and pay with a credit card like ABA does it's a mixb cuz you'll get points hey don't you get it Doby this is all the money I have to spend I decide what's important to me and when I dish out the last dollar that's it money doesn't grow on trees you know I'm not a baby okay I know money doesn't grow on trees it comes from an ATM machine did you see that not only didn't I have to say no shimmy said no to himself he decided what takes priority and how to distinguish between his needs and wants instead of a confrontation I let a preset budget and list do the job if it's not on the list it doesn't exist shimmy learned that every opportunity comes with a price and when we say yes to one thing we are saying no to something else isn't that what life's all about so again similar idea it's about life skills life tools and applying them things we'll be familiar with applying them to to money we conveyed in the first uh the first uh strategy the first tool the idea of that resources are limited and choices have to be made so therefore we need to make a choice we need to sometimes prioritize but what takes resters and here we come to one of M's mantras something that we repeat again and again again and we encourage everybody to repeat again and again with their children you heard it in there and that is that you will have always tell your children you will have and make sure not only you're telling them it's because this is what we're doing that you'll have everything you need and some of what you want that's that's and in our coaching where we sit with families that's really where we're trying to get to we're trying to say we want to enable you and help you to be able to have everything you need and some of what you want now the sum will be you have to prioritize what going to be the Sun and also this comes to another part of what what how do you define a need and how do you define a want okay so if you have everything you need and some of what you want well who's going to say what's a need and who's going to say what's a want and that's really and because of changing standards that's you know years ago I'm not going to speak too much about previously but you know it was very clear what the minimum standard was and the minimum needs were and it was clear that only only affluent people certain people had the extras so to speak but the reality is that now everyone has whatever it may be translated in your own areas in your own lives you know whether it's everyone goes on vacation or everyone goes to G everyone has to go everyone has two push everyone has you know everyone it's just there isn't that same understanding that there is like a minimum that uh that we have and so what do we do how do we determine the things that are a need and the things that are a want sometimes they're objective sometimes they're subjective you know if you're living in a place where you know 90% of your your if you have daughters but 90% of your daughter's class are going to learn for you know in seminary in in eral well that suddenly moves from being a want to a need right that quite easily that's like it's very difficult to see that as a want and it becomes very quickly as a need certainly in the girls uh eyes and so on and so it's very difficult and very um challenging so and also as we know aggressive advertising is also part of it you know we and our kids are bombarded by advertising everywhere we uh we are and and it's not easy to resist those sort of open and very often latent messages of prioritizing objectively and how we do that um and we're constantly pressure to buy and to buy and to buy and you can probably identify with some of these and I hope you hope you do so this is what we're up against and but we can we can deal with it there there are strategies to deal with it's not easy I'm not pretending any of this is necessarily easy and it takes time to get used to ourselves to be able to do this but um one of the other things that we do is how to determine what is a need and what is a want okay so how would you determine how would you want to determine what is a need how would you decide my kid want something how do I determine for myself not necessarily for them for the moment but let's just do for myself as a parent how do I determine what is a need generally in life and what is a want any any [Music] suggestions okay so here huh a need is something that they need to survive a need is something they need to survive okay yeah that's very good absolutely and and one of the ways what happens if you don't have it what happens if you don't have it absolutely one of the almost almost it's not absolutely but almost foolproof ways of um being able to determine and decide what and distinguish between what is a need and what is a want is the rule as follows and that is if it's a need it will get stronger if it's a want then it eases with time right if you're hungry and you and you need to eat eat the longer you leave it the hungrier you'll get if you fancy chocolate if you move away from the kitchen and then go learn or go to whatever you're doing you'll forget about you you w you'll forget about the your want your need for chocolate right I mean it's a bit of a silly example you understand the point that I'm making and it's almost fullprof I can't say absolutely fullprof but if you think about this in your own in your own life and you think okay what it what you know if it's if if a kid needs a pair of shoes if they tuck and need it that's only going to get stronger that need is going to get stronger if the reason they need is because the shoes don't fit them that's only going to get worse right if they need it because you know other kids in their class have that they have those and therefore they need it well not necessarily is that going to get you know over time we can we'll speak about some of those soon and so that's very very important to understand the difference and be able to distinguish between what is a need and what is a want to be able to then prioritize because we're saying we're going to be able to provide and we want to to provide all of the needs and some of the wants so that's how we go about it and there are different levels of needs of course right you need shoes you need oxygen right we need both of those but they are different levels and sometimes we get confused by the want element in terms of within the real needs okay so for example your your child really really needs shoes but not necessarily they're very super expensive designer label shoes and that's what we need to help our children to understand and when they say I need these shoes they need to be able to say I need shoes and I want those shoes and they already distinguishes between a need and a want that we agree absolutely you need shoes 100% And and so what we need to do is try to take it to the next level and try help them with the value of keeping needs and the level of needs uh down so we began by speaking about prioritizing for a purely practical reason resources are limited and we have to choose and how to choose but sometimes there are other bigger reasons to limit spending and to narrow down the area that we as parents and um we want what we want and what do we want our children to be able to understand and to have and what we want them to be able to Define as needs even when money is not an issue and this is a really really really extremely important Point particularly as I say as yiden as from yiden this is a very valuable point and we know so when our kids learn to be happy right when there are a when there's a smaller amount when there are you know again just using just picking examples but when they're maybe three Nas at the table and not 10 um or they have two y of outfits and not five yeah I'm not again I'm not here to preach not just illustrating a point a point that I hope we can all relate to and it's not about the numbers the ratios you can put in yourself but it's the principle okay don't get stuck on the actual numbers to out doesn't matter five 10 whatever the numbers are but being getting used to less than what they have is what we ultimately giving them is the gift of happiness and as you know anyone can test when we say you know more just makes you want even more and and every want that is given into ultimately what's going to happen is that's likely going to become a need and then we're Shifting the goal post and what is a need and then the wants become different and so on and so and so forth and ultimately a a as we know we have this principle of right we have that if a person has fallen from what they had previously then from a perspective we have to give them what they were used to having before and absolutely obligation according to Torah on the giver but to some extent it's a big Rus on the recipient because a person here cannot manage with the sort of the slave who's running before them that's the right example of um there's also a caveat here that allowing them too little we can't go to the Other Extreme right allowing them too little as compared to their peers can also Boomerang and that also will give them a bigger appetite for things that they maybe really need or sometimes they want so it's a balance it's a balance but at least helping them think out in that way and and understanding that there is this concept of a need and there is this concept of a want because a child who gets everything they want and never develops tools to that they need to differentiate and prioritize well definitely need those tools later in life there's no questions so be able to give them these tools already from a younger age and they won't be able to learn they won't learn to be to cope with disappointment and that's a really important thing the styleon for example said that that uh so many people today that the reason why so many people today suffer from depression and it's only got worse since he spoke about it is because they never lacked anything when growing up and they never developed coping skills okay don't shoot the messenger that's what the St player said and so it's very very important and he said therefore when things later on in life didn't quite work out they didn't know how to cope and everything fell apart and and and you know we have to think about this in terms of later on life not just as an individual but particularly when our children grow up and they get married and how that impacts in terms of relationships and marriages and so on and so forth and ultimately what we we want to say is it's not the money even if I can afford it I'm still going to I'm still not going to do this right even if I can afford it and it's important to let our children know that we are limiting ourselves even if we can afford it even if we can afford it because then they realize that it is a conscious thought out decision and and they'll be motivated to view their spending objectively in a very very different way rather than sort of putting their blame the blame on their s of limited spending on their inep um you know economic economically you know Savvy parents who are in they don't know how to they can't afford it Etc that's not that's not what what we're doing we need to be able to find Opportunities to be able to say to them I'm making a choice here this is not something that I feel that we need or I feel that that that we're going to provide even though it's a want even though I can afford it even though I can afford it and so let's take an example of how we can help our children make this very practical and very real how we can help our children prioritize and distinguish needs from wants okay so for example Yosi is about to start high school and he wants and Omega watch okay the Casio watch that he got at sixth grade is is just not going to cut it anymore for it's new High School image so what are the points to consider when he's requesting this more expensive watch over to you what would you consider in deciding should I give it to him or should I not so I'll help you out here what do a need huh what is a need yeah how do you define a need so for example what what percentage what percentage of kids in 9th grade have a watch like this okay is it something that like Tako more or less everybody does so it changes the balance of things of how I'm going to consider right is it and even the the kids that do is it something that is um a given or is it something that's unusual for example it's you know grandparents came and visited and gave them a gift of a of a watch where is this coming from and and you know how do they get this and also is there added value in in them having this watch will it last longer given whatever they're they're involved in and has more features and so on or is it purely just a stateus symbol and understand where this is coming from and most importantly we need to understand who we deal with dealing with what about this child this child themselves we need to be very um tuned in to that child's personality and to whether they're going through a difficult time and therefore they can't withstand necessarily there are you know x amount they have X amount a big percentage of children that do have it and they're not one of those they're much more of a sensitive type and they and they can't it's much more difficult and we have to take that into account children will have different levels of self-confidence and varying needs and sliding sliding levels of ego so we need to take that into account as well we need to take both of those what's going on in the classroom and in the white what's going on with this child and then put those together and say okay then I will determine if this is a need or if this is a want and ultimately if we want to help our children prioritize then when when they're faced with a want that they perceive as a need then give them the freedom of choice okay and what Freedom of Choice freedom of choice where they'll feel it in their pocket for example I know on something I know once it said to their children children wanted a particular pair of trainers so fine you absolutely need a pair of trainers I don't have an issue with that if your budget is $100 right anything more than $100 if you want to buy you pay the whole thing yourself they didn't buy the pair of trainers that they wanted which was $125 because suddenly it switches it depends when they're paying for and they have to pay for it then then then the the the priorities and the scales of needs and wants suddenly switch very very much and you can do this as well with you know as a uh with our children to give them to empower them to make the freedom of choice in a way that they will feel it doesn't have to be they pay for the whole thing sometimes you can say to them you know you could pay the difference only when they have to pay for it their choices change and if they don't then that tells you that tuer maybe you know was a need and fine you found a way of do it you haven't said no but it hasn't cost you anymore they they feel it's really a need they have the wherewith all to be able to do it we come to a minute how they can you know maybe afford things and so on okay so that is ultimately what we need to do is keep reminding them that that that you know they have everything that we're going to provide them everything that that they need and some of what they want um and it'll apply in life apply to apply to the house to buy you know every everything that we uh that we look at because ultimately we'll never have everything that we want because the more we want the more we want so we know that in our own life so we need to be able to give them the to be able to already appreciate that for the rest of the life so in the next in the next car we're going to see we're going to we're going to look at the idea of keeping down once from a different perspective sometimes a no to a child can be empowering we can get our kids to recognize their power and use it for the public benefit Emma said you need a new backpack shimmy hey look there's a cute one with teddy bears teddy bears that's fine for a little kid named doy but not for me ABA look that fancy new backpack is on sale the one they've been advertising all over town it has a zillion pockets and gadgets and it's super cool the sign says that it usually cost twice as much but now it's only $10 more than the regular ones will that be fair to your friends why not ABA my friend ruy the one who lives in that fancy house with the marble pillars just came to school with that backpack but you don't have have any marbles in your pillows pillars silly not pillows AA if I come to school with that backpack everyone in my class will be blown away and that's exactly why we're not going to buy it if we do your friends will ask their ABA to buy them the same thing for twice the price shimmy the boys in your class respect you and follow your lead use your power to lead them to good things not to raise the bar so people spend money they don't have did you did you see that the backpack may have been a once in a-lifetime bargain but far more valuable was the opportunity to teach shimmy how to resist negative social pressure and exert positive pressure I try to convey to my family that money is just a means to an end not a way to show off or put pressure on other people I'm really proud of shimmy for broadcasting the same message to his class okay so here and we've probably heard this many many times um just because everyone has it we may have heard it as children just because because everyone has it doesn't mean that you have to have it and that's usually followed by an interrogation which sometimes is very effective start it with my own children where it's like so you know everyone has it what is the everyone how how many people so so who for example who you you don't have to do it in a in a in a in an uncomfortable way so oh okay that's that's interesting such as you know who and then once they get to usually about three they start struggling yeah this one that that right so it that sometimes very H that that that that sometimes does happen that it's not like the everyone is not Tucker the the everyone but also different children are are you know some children will be very happy to wear hand me downs and some won't some some kids would rather go you know not go on the school trip and you know instead of going with the backpack that is like not the the latest one and so so on and so forth so we need to take all of these things into into account but we also need to try and and this is where we're going to turn the tables we need to try and Empower our children to to be able to and to ingrain within them to be able to have the inner strength to be able to resist um uh peer pressure and all of those things but here what we're doing in this cartoon ex what we're doing is we're using the idea of peer pressure and inner strength as long as we can build them with the Inner Strength by by taking it a Step Beyond that and it's um not just a matter of not going uh with the flow we also want them to realize that they have the power and very often therefore the responsibility to direct the flow for the public benefit or at least not to join the ones who are putting on negative peer pressure that was the message that shim's father tried to get across in the cartoon now when we bring this up it's very controversial um we very often uh have a lot of of Challenge and push back on on this because this is where we say like you know people will say well why is it my why why do I have to be responsible about what other people are going to do what other people are going to think that's their problem not my problem if I can afford it and it's okay for me and did so then that's fine why why should I care about what other people think that deal with their issues not me deal about our issu But ultimately pil we do believe that we do bear a responsibility for our actions and the effects of our actions on people around us and we you know we care about people so that's uh that's therefore we uh this is something that we feel very strongly about and it is true always and especially nowadays that you know when many you know members are in our community more than really should be are in financial distress and more that probably more than you actually probably know about and aware of um but you know there are lots of people who are struggling and are trying to sort of as we say in England keep keep up with the Joneses I don't know what the equivalent is in America but you I'm sure you know what I mean and that's a big big Challenge and we do have a responsibility it's not like the old days where there was like the gav in the village and you know he lived one way and there was the common folk and everybody else who lived a a a much uh a lower standard but it's it today it doesn't really work like that anymore and many of our friends and our relatives and our neighbors who look just like us feel compelled to keep up you know the certain image they need to keep up with and even though they're really struggling and we'll go into tremendous debt because of it and it's a big big Challenge and therefore if we think about other people um you know when we're when we're doing things when we're making Simas and when we're buying cars and when we're redecorating or whatever it may be or buying clothing then what we're doing is we're relieving a great burden for those other people in in CLA and as I say it is controversial it's very challenging but this is something that we do feel very very I'm not saying it's easy this is not as I said before it's it's tough to do that you know we work very hard to get to a certain economic level to get to a certain level of affability and feel I can afford it like so so why not like I worked hard I can afford it what's what what's wrong um and you know it is very challenging there's no question about it and you could say let them deal with their issues and you know parents parents very often will say to us like you know shouldn't kids and people in general know that there are different needs and wants and yes they not different needs different needs um for different people and children will usually learn that within their own families within their own you know siblings not everybody has the same needs and we need to educate them certainly internally as well about that sort of idea you know each child will need different medical uh there'll be different medical issues different whatever it may be so I I'm sure every parent will acknowledge that we to to to turn around and say everybody has to have the same thing is not healthy as well we need to be able to relate to each of our children in a different way and certainly within clar Ro that's absolutely true but in a social arena in a so that principle itself does does hold and therefore people say well in that case if they see at home that different people get different things and different different siblings do then why not out there in community so we have you know we can do differently to other people why should I worry about other people but in the social Arena it works very very differently and we want to be them that when we intro when that child introduces something as like we saw in the cartoon they introduce something that it's not a need sometimes it's not fair in other people because we wanted them to empow we want to empower them to create you know things that are healthy and not create needs for others that are not healthy and going to land them into into trouble and we can't just sort of say yeah let let everybody else deal with their issues and it's not my my issues but we have we have we have an to each other and there's no question that um these things can have a big negative impact on other people in what we do can have an impact in the social Arena what other people feel they need to do as well so we talked about wants and needs and and uh you know so you know for example a kid walks into a class and 3/4s of the class has something right say a new kind of binder whatever it may be and you know maybe that's a need the TR don't know but whatever it may be it's something that they want um and even then you might teach them sometimes no we're not you're not going to be you're not going to have you have to you know make do without but that's not necessarily what we're talking about here but what if nobody has it yet right nobody has a particular item and your kid brings it into the classroom so what's going to happen over time is they're effectively starting a new trend and they're raising the bar and if it's something that's expensive it's something that cost a little bit more and then the first ones over time there's a few well one kid has it so a few kids are going to have it and over time it becomes something which what the effect that that's had is that maybe half the class could three4 of the class could afford it 90% of the class parents could afford it but 10% couldn't but those 10% and of those that those parents are not going to send their kids without this so now they feel pressured they have to get their kids dis binded because now every has it and all where did it come from one kid that decided he was going to have he wanted a new binder cuz he fancied it and the parents could afford it and they sent them to school with that that binder whatever you can translate binder to whatever it is you you get the point right you with me on this yeah we getting some nded some nods yeah okay if you if you disagree with anything please just just challenge me try right so that's a clear indication is part of responsibility to see the suffering of others on the impact yeah correct yeah yeah yeah and and and that's and that's thing we don't or it's not so avert here it's it's a bit more it's not so avert it's not so clear andt if we think about it uh you know we say when when we're saying yes what what what's the what's the knock on effect even if we can't afford it and it's not an issue over here of it's not not about no this is about saying yes and what's the effect and therefore it's about sharing these strategies and these tools with them to say what what's going to be the impact of this um and it's going back to different aspect of needs and and wants and also it's not only what we do it's also what we what we say and how we communicate our pen take take the following scenario for example so Yosi we're back to Yosi um and his parent his Yi parents want to make him a a simple B Mitzvah some of his friends have simple B Mitzvah some of his friends have more lavish B Mitzvah and he would like really very much like a sort of a fan one on the fancier scale and what they do is they they went to missula and they went to right we're going to empower you we say look this that you can you can use if you want to something a little bit more you can use some of your bits for money I'm not suggesting that you do this I'm just saying they giving you a scenario you you can use some of your bits of money to be able to have something more than what we would do ourselves okay and he's he's now as they say m now that he has to pay for it he's say okay let me consider anything he goes to his friends B he goes to one of his friends B which is very very basic and he's there and another friend turns around and says say you know it doesn't really feel like a very like a b Mitzvah here it's like it's a bit there's not really much happening there isn't much here it doesn't feel like a b Mitzvah and that moment Yosi makes up his mind because he was he's not going to go like he's not going to do the same like low level so now he's absolutely want to Lavish by so his friend has no doesn't really appreciate he doesn't know what Yos is thinking he doesn't know that he's just said has has and the impact that it's had on what a person is going to spend what a person is going to do so we you know we have to he had no idea and we have to think about and consider a little bit more about you know what it is that that we say and so on so positive peer pressure what's positive peer pressure is doing things that you know has a positive effect now so say there's you know a a bikeathon and everybody's having a bike and there's a couple of kids who have brand new bikes but they also have you know they you know they have older bikes as well so positive peer pressure could be taking not the the the fancy new bike because you know when you're in a group setting and just taking so that people shouldn't feel uncomfortable Whoever has you know whatever bikes you have they'll feel comfortable it doesn't matter even the ones that had fancy bikes used other secondhand bikes and so on and those things that we can uh we can do um or for example you know two uh two brothers Ley Ley hears his brother kman telling a friend telling a friend S I really can't um you know alar with you on Monday nights that's fine so his brother says why didn't you just tell him that we go out every Monday night with b and Z so what say because right positive period pressure is I'm not going to say that because maybe they can't afford to do that do that so how do it make them feel if that's what I'm saying and then so it's those sorts of things where we can have positive P we need to try and be children and share with them the other side of the needs and wants and the things that we do do and things that we don't do and the peer pressure that we may feel is to to be the leaders in a positive way to be able to share those uh those things and um ultimately as I said earlier one of the things is it has to come from us we need to model that approach as well right we can't tell our children that they need to you know or you know tell we can't you encourage and educate our children that they should make do with the you know unbranded shoes when we ourselves are wearing branded clothes the whole time like that's just not going to work it's not going to work so it's it's about being a Dogma as well in the way that we do it and um in short we don't only resist peer pressure what we try and do is go step and Beyond and say Beyond say and what we say is no to ourselves is to and to avoid creating peer pressure as well and that's another way of saying uh saying no and it doesn't stop there because once we sensiti size ourselves to caring about Claus Ro and then ultimately what happens is we we we we instill within them a value and a Min value which means when they grow up then they care about others those are the kids that are becoming the ason and those are the King Kings kids that are becoming and those are the kids are reaching out to help others and creating organization and volunteering and so on because they're so used to from a very young age thinking about others caring about others the impact that I have and what I say and what I do about others not making them feel uncomfortable and so on and so forth and therefore they recognize this is an integral part integral ter of value about the way in which we live our Liv so let's go back to shimmy um and see the next strategy that he uh that he lears but six all together two more sometimes the way we say no is not right now sometimes it's you have to wait until you earn it and even today kids are able to delay gratification earn and save for the future AB but look they have the new room CBE and it's on sale for only $6 it's so worth it it's an a leave it on the shelf and anyway Shimmy's buying so much stuff this is just one little game for me please can you buy it ABA please ABA forget it aba's not going to let actually doy if you really want the Rubik's Cube you can have it what but not today if you want it you'll have to wait until you earn it you mean I can get a job tomorrow instead of going to school no but you can earn it up other ways starting tomorrow every time you go to sleep on time and wake up at the first ring of the alarm clock you'll get a star when you have 12 Stars you can have your prize a Rubik's Cube hey that's sort of like when you paid me a dollar for each time I rake the leaves so I could buy the new Reby mle book for $10 in the end when I had $9 you gave me the last one as a freebie remember that's right and Doby if you stick it out I'll give you the last star for free too h that will take you almost 2 weeks I can do it wow I can't wait I mean I can't wait you know in the past I'd sometimes find myself saying no automatically but you have to learn to listen to your kids sometimes what you see as an unjustified demand is important for this child you can take that demand like I just did and turn it into a Hands-On opportunity to practice earning saving and delay gratification even a little fellow like doy can do it and learning how to delay Gra ification is not just about money it's a valuable asset in every aspect of our lives so there's another way to say yes why saying a no okay or another way not to say no another Strat how not don't just say no and saying yes you can have a delay gratification I'm sure you can all relate to that sure understand it in the past it was it was very very different you know kids um were it was very common to be you know boys to be raking to be snow well snow they meant to be snow right to shovel the snow and to the leaves from the past and the kids and girls to be doing babysitting sometimes the other way around as well I'm not judging who but generally that's what Happ today for various reason to do with safety to do with you know parents feel uncomfortable with just leaving their kids either out to go to you know to to out in the streets to be working or even sometimes for go babysitting so sometimes can be more challenging but the principle is still there the idea that that and to be encourag and sometimes also parents feel they don't want them to be having to earn money to be able to um spend money themselves they want to provide for themselves and you know psychologists can go into a lot of detail as to where that comes from and how they were brought up and the previous generation and all those all those sorts of things and previous generation by the way were very good at this very very good at delayed gratification like it was quite normal to wait a very long time to save up till you got something a decade sometimes two decades because they just couldn't afford it there was just there wasn't the money available there wasn't the credit available it just wasn't it wasn't there nowadays it's a whole different world and it's much more challenging but the principle still is the same there still the strategy still is there and that and the tool still is there and that is about you know the the delayed gratification and and waiting to be able to earn it and a way to be able to not say no but to say yes but you know yes you can have it but you'll have to earn it you'll have to sa for it or whatever it may be sometimes you know it's helped by Family whether it's you know an uncle an aunt or a grandparent comes and gives them a little gift and and money they can use that money so it gets a bit quicker but there's ways in which that they can um uh earn the money and we need to enable them and create those we can't just say them yes you can earn it and save for it if you don't give them the opportunities to be able to save money so we do need to think of ways and do it sometimes it's within the home sometimes outside of the home whatever it it may be but that's certainly a very powerful strategy to be able to help them again not just with money but in life um in in general and it's it's much more challenging today in the you know instant world that we live in instant communication you know microwave meals etc etc that that's and it's difficult but and that's what I said in the beginning I'm not saying these things are easy but the principle and the value certainly hasn't changed uh we can still do it we know I'm sure you're all very familiar with the marshmallow experiment that was uh that was done um in terms of asking you know asking a group of kids you can look it up you'll see it was exper they followed them later on you can either have you know two marshmallows uh well one marshmallow now or if you wait can have two marshmallows and the kid they F they they tracked the kids who waited and for be able to have two marshmallows later on I think it was I can't remember exct numbers and they saw that they were much more successful in life later on it was quite incredible actually you can look it up the marshmallow is very well known the marshmallow experiment um and so that you know that principle is there and we want to try and be able to give them that opportunity in life they will become much more successful if they learn to wait for things to save for things and so on uh and so forth and the truth is that children are born with a certain nature for some it's easier to wait and for others it's much more of a challenge and you know we we need to be in tune with our children as well each as an individual and there's you know there's very there's lots of different personality types there there are those for example there's dnar right this is not a judgment but it's the idea that uh you know he'll s it up my friends always have extra money so if I need something I'll just ask them and they're always happy to give or there's the one that's the borrow say you know go to your friend and say look I I I I need something can I borrow some money from you and I'll pay and I'll pay you back and there's the Copa the Copa is the one who says you know if I if I don't have the money then I'm not going to spend any and I and you know until I have more and you know what it's not the end of the world I'll cope I don't have it now I won't have it fine that's and then there's the planner the one who says like I know you know I'm going to need this and this amount of money in this week so I'm going to plan for it and I'm going to line up jobs to be able to save the money cuz that week I want to be able to do I want to go away in the whatever it whatever it may be and then there's the saver every time he gets money yeah half of it put away and half of it will spend so there's different personality types and we need to understand our children's personality types and be able to relate to them in that way but in all those cases we can help them and you know it's a muscle it's a muscle the more that we practice this the more that we will be able to get used to this this principle of delayed gratification and saying there are Strat ways in which you can yes you can have it but you'll need to be able to earn it and you'll need to wait for it until you uh until you do and again as I said in the beginning as y we're very familiar with this right we have shabas right shabas is things are M so you have to wait you want to be able to enjoy that toy you have to wait till after shabas kasas right you want to be able to have that coffee after your feska meal but have to wait for it so these are principles that apply throughout our lives they sometimes used to and so on so just to finish off quickly in the uh in the last uh I know we we we're going on quite a bit but um the last couple of thoughts saying no because you're frustrated is never a good idea kids can learn to reframe their requests when they don't get that automatic no it's getting late let's head straight for home hey I almost forgot tomorrow is the trip for the end of the summer learning program I've got to buy new hiking shoes my other ones are from the Middle Ages and I refuse to be seen in and besides I need tons of not and $20 for the trip I am feeling totally Badger I'm just going to take them home and that's that wait I'm the adult here let's focus on the issue and refrain slow down what language are you speaking shimmy I don't understand a word your saying it's English ABA he hardly knows any is but I know tons that's not what ala means what do you mean AB I heard a lot of words like I've got to I refuse I need if something's important to you I want to hear about it but that's not the language I understand why don't you try again oh I get it h ABA I just remembered that there was a trip tomorrow and it cost $20 Sonic do you think you could please give me the $20 for the trip I'd really appreciate it ah now I hear you yes you may have the $20 was there something else you wanted to ask my hiking shoes are worn down and they're sort of old fashioned I was wondering would this maybe be a good time to buy new shoes it's a little late now for boot shopping and besides it's not on the list when we get home we can take a look at the shoes and decide what to do after supper we'll pick up the nsh and shimmy I'm glad we're speaking the same language now thanks a lot Ava how do you say Nash in yish isn't that something I didn't slap down that automatic no and managed to take the edge off Shimmy's tone I helped him communicate clearly and respectfully so that we could focus on the issue proper communication is a skill that goes Way Beyond knowing how to ask a parent to Shell out money it's the building block of every future relationship in life so another General tool for life which we applied to M I just want to make one caveat about what I said before about earning you know delayed gratification it's important that children feel that they don't have to earn everything there's also times where we give them something without earning we need to find Opportunities to give them things and say just because we want to we love them and and so on that so it's not no extreme is good okay that's a but in terms of this um Express expressing needs effectively um very very important the magic word here is reframing very reframing and you know not to react and it's difficult we have to work on ourselves sometimes we sort of react because of they spoke in a certain way we suddenly become kids right we react in that way they were they spoke no you're not having no no no we need to hold ourselves work in ourselves and re and help them to reframe how it is that they express it in our Junior High School curriculum again we have you know these we we give kids pointers at how to express their needs respect respectfully and effectively so for example give you some examples so things that we say they want not to say like you promised or you never buy me anything or everyone has has one our family never does anything fun and so on so what yes what what what do they say we say okay so this is maybe for example you know to make requests not not demands it's all about how we speak um to offer to participate in some way uh in whatever way they can explain why it's important explain why I feel this is important for me and again we say it doesn't mean that means it will be a yes but you got a better chance and there's no difference to our relationship with a K right right if we if we come to askem and we we're bringing something within the way that we speak and so on it's it's very very different same thing with with our children um and avoid saying you we say them avoid saying you you this you that and whatever it is also choose a good time to ask timing is is very very important um like not just like half an hour before shabas or things like that and also think before we ask do we really need it that we're trying to educate the children so that's also uh another strategy is terms in terms of what um you know what how we could do so let's just review and we'll finish off with the last one um the alternative so far that we've had to know that we offer you know so far is number one we discussed the option of the structured Independence limited autonomy giving our children that uh uh their ability to understand that the resources are limited so that they learn to say no to themselves that's the point that we're trying to get to we also spoke about teaching um our children to prioritize and realize that saying yes to one thing means saying no to something else uh we taught them that sometimes they should choose to say no to their social pressures that's also the positive to apply positive peer pressure and to spare their friends the pain that might come when they're creating this peer pressure as well that sort of sense of responsibility we spoke just now about uh saying later instead of no so yes but not now uh and so on by offering them weights to earn to save up or simply not simply actually but to delay the gratification and we how all of these techniques are a lot bigger than saying no to a particular demand they're actually tools for life all of them we just apply them to the area of money and we can also apply them back once they get used to in the area of money they can apply it on so but sometimes just sometimes and that's why weti we title it don't just say no sometimes we have to say no some there are there are times where we then this is the final final clip and we'll finish off with [Music] that some times you have to say no and when you're really decisive your kids will learn to accept the no without trying to manipulate or pressure you look they have this amazing pair of binoculars on sale for just $449.99 sorry shimmy we're not buying binoculars but ABA it's such a bargain no shimmy $50 is a lot of money but we'll be able to use it for other trips too and besides everyone in my class is going to have one on this trip hey if everyone will have one maybe you can look from one side while they look from the other side silly then all I'll see is my friend's nose not the gorgeous view I'm sorry shimmy I know it's disappointing for you but there are some things in life that we just have to swallow ABA swallow binoculars do big it'll hurt that's not what ABA meant doy he means that there's nothing to talk about now how about an ice cream cone for each of you to top off the big shopping day really ABA do you mean it of course ABA means it when ABA says no it's no and when he says yes it's yes any he says yes again does that mean we get two scoops do you have a guilt trip every time you need to put your foot down and say no think again granting kids the gift of no is a gift for Life there will always be nose in life and teaching that to our kids early on means they'll be more equipped to deal with later challenges in a strong and healthy way shimmy just built up his coping muscles for dealing with nose in the future the way I see it saying no gently and effectively is an art form learning to say no to kids demands in a non-confrontational way takes practice and skill but your relationship with your kids will be transformed and you will have given them real tools for dealing with money challenges and all challenges for the rest of their lives last but not least you can focus on teaching your family the genuine Torah perspective on money and spending money as a means to an end and a tool for AEM not the center of our lives or the proof of our value so that's the scoop which reminds me anyone joining us for ice cream so um almost a shame to sort of not end on that because I was quite F but let's just develop that a little bit more and understand it so some parents find themselves saying no the whole time or even more than they would like so hopefully what I've helped to do is to give you strategies to be able to not have to say no the whole time but to have the same effect the same outcome of saying no but in a different way a way that's healthy a way that is a way of that teaches them and helps them with tools for life and makes us feel better in terms of uh their relationship as well but sometimes we do have to say no and then that if it's not always no they'll know as it says over as we've seen over here they'll know that when it when they say no it means no and so on and the reasons why we may say no are not necessarily so relevant why we may feel that we want to say no um the whole time is not necessarily relevant but as we discussed like sometimes talking about tool for life sometimes life says no to people right it's not that we're saying no and if we never say no to our children then they'll never be able to learn they'll never learn how to cope when life says no to them when says no to them about things that they NE sometimes want and sometimes also sometimes that they need but that as parents we we want to reassure them give them the security You' always have everything that you need and some that you want but life doesn't always work out like that and it's a really powerful tool when we and and and I don't want to sort of know we've had five alternatives to know but it's important to understand the sixth is equally as important that is that our times always say now we have to be clear we have to be firm this is no and that way as they say when life you for whatever reason hasem determined that that's going to be no then they'll be able to uh they'll have the coping mechanism and say okay this time it's a no and that's uh and and they'll be able to do it and so as we've seen here hopefully I've been able to um help you in strategies and tools not you know not tell you what to do but share with you some things to think about and ways to be able to um communicate with your children and you know some some parents say look I don't want my children to have the slightest inkling of our financial you know financial difficulties or that we might not be able to afford something know when we're talking about saying no as I said earlier because we choose that say to say no even if we can't afford it that's a very healthy much healthier conversation but sometimes we say no because we can't afford it can't afford it and it's not a need it's a want and we're saying no and so some parents might feel I I just don't want to do that I don't want my kids to feel like I can't afford something so it's not necessarily about the details yes it's true don't necessarily have to go into the details but the idea that we can't some we can't afford something is also okay and sometimes we have to say no we can't because we can't it's a lot of money we can't afford that it's a want it's not a need if you really need it then I have to find the money but it's not a need we've determined now already that we've had all the other things that we've done but this is a want and remember always always the man say look I always provide you everything that you need and some of what you want this is not one of them it's not a need and it's not one of the wants that I'm going to be able to find you I can't I can't afford it and it's okay for children to be able to hear that and healthy for children to be able to hear that it's just not necessarily healthy for them to hear that every single time and that's the balance that we're trying to strike and that the occasional no will be much more effective and much more uh powerful and the fact is that knowing money is limited and seeing how the family and the child themselves can manage and be happy gives the child a sense of security and it gives them the strength