CHAZARAH - Menachos Daf 7 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

Good morning live from Park City, Utah. So it goes like this. So we're talking about like 20 lines from the bottom. Again, Rav is the one who says that if a Israel does he takes this is the the bowl of flour. If a is takes the three fingers worth from this bowl, it's no good. But if he puts it back into the bowl, it's good. The Mishna mentions a whole list of other people. You have, you have, you have a etc., etc. So says it's because said you can put it back in. I would think that the only thing you can put back in is if you do with your left hand, but do your left hand, you can put it back in and start over again. What if does it? What if an does it? You can't. That's what I would think. It's not true. Says all the whole list is all kosher if you put it back in. Another thing it says says in the from there from the place that the feet of the stand if you messed up you did with your left hand put it back in start over with your right. So he learns it differently from the same bowl that you did with your left. Do it over again. It's not a problem. So it's obvious that the is not referring only to the left hand versus the right. the be talking about Israel and what's coming to tell us when can you return it in all situations even if you did the and put it into the smaller second vessel which gives us to that you did with your right hand you're kit with your right hand put into this small vessel it becomes I could take that dump it back into the original bowl and start all over again. And this comes to say differently to exclude these that say the son of say by the way I heard once that he's not not that he's a baker is that his was so beautiful like fresh bagels but he wasn't necessarily a baker. They say differently what we just said. We just said that even if it goes into the second cle you can still use it. No, no, no, no. When can you use the original kamas? only if you didn't put in the second cle if you put in second that's too late you can't do anything and some say did oh that in in not like we said before that if he put it in a cle that it's okay said no if you put it in a cle it's not and he fits right in with they go hand in hand that you could reuse the if you don't put it into you just put it directly back into the original bowl but if you put into a second bowl it becomes what is so you're able to bring in the time of mikdash you're able to bring a gift usually it's a gift to you put It's made out of flour. Sometimes you add a little oil. You add a little frankincense, levino. Sometimes it's plain. It's just flour. The procedure is as follows. Let me just show you. Here it goes. This is an older AI video. It gets better. We have a >> symbol of our >> I don't like that. I'm just muted now. I think he's done speaking. Hey, how are you? Grab a seat. Shabu to here. You have a safer over. No, that's not it. Here. Passing this both of those. You're probably going to want to see the screen. So what you saw over here, I you might have been distracted for a second, but basically the kite sticks his hand into the flour and with his three fing fingers, he grabs flour. That's a ma. Then whatever you have to add, you add some he put the oil on the bottom, put the flour on top, then more oil, then the frankincense. But this this right over here these these three fingers worth that is the kit that goes onto the misbeh gets afterwards. Okay. So knowing that Rav says that's like 10 lines from the top. Ra says that if a isrol does the kam, it has to be done by a but let's say is jumped in and he did the kam, then you just return it right back to the to the bowl. You put the kam right back to the bowl. So we is exactly what's going on here. What happens if he doesn't put it in the bowl? He puts it in the second bowl. Now, I don't know if you noticed here. Let's go back over here. Okay, you see now he's taking the kamito. What does he do with it? He puts it into a second vessel. It's in one clichus. This is uh this the first vessel has gusha. And then he takes that the three fingers worth and he puts it into a second vessel. Once you put it into the second vessel, can you return it to the first one? Once you take the kamita from here, Raph says even if Israel takes it and he messes up, you can put it right back and then let the K start all over again. But if you put it into the second smaller vessel, you can't do that. That's one. So now we're holding five lines from the bottom base. What exactly do they hold? If when the isel takes the three fingers worth that's considered one of the four essential like when you the carbon in the the does what about the if you hold that putting your hand in and grabbing three fingers is part of that. So who cares if you put into another clear or not? Oh, correct. Thank you. But I was giving sheir here without without people and I skipped around and it wasn't good. Then they I had to go back and fix it. So thank you if it's considered. So what difference is it if he put into a cle or not by him putting his hand into the cle and going like this he made it he did it should make it should be possible and if it doesn't count for anything so then he dumps it into a second vessel so what good is it why why is that a problem why would you say that putting into a second ruins it in fact it is considered so He says something very interesting that it's a combination. It's not a complete avoid. It's a let's say 50% by you putting your hand in and grabbing it is 50%. The second part is when you put it into the k that's the second 50%. So it is an avoid but it's not a complete avoid. Therefore when you by by is putting his hand in he did 50%. It's not puzzle yet. But when he dumps it into the second k then he finishes it off boom then it becomes a complete then becomes puzzle. You can't use it again. Top of here. Let's say he takes flour from here. This is a golden vessel. This has this is a clichus. So he goes and he takes he takes that that amount. He did 50% of then he goes puts it right back to where he started. We said we could use it. How could he use it? This is a clich by him putting it back in here. It was mad. He gave it and now he ruined it. So Tyus asks, "When you put it back in here, where does it fall? It falls on top of the flower. So if it falls back on a flower, how could it have gusha?" In order for it to have gusha, it has to fall into the vessel. It didn't fall into the vessel. Fell into the other flower. So says that's the famous concept and just throwing it out there. When you have two items that are the same, the one of the same it's flour and flour. Then it's there's no So it's as if when you put the kit back in the bowl on top of flour, it's as if it hit the bottom of the k because the flour that it fell on is not going to provide um a barrier separation between the cle and that I just thought it's an interesting place. So the question is let's go back to the question to understand the answer. The question is when you put when is we're talking about a guy who's or a person that lost a close relative that day and all these people that are apostle doing that they put their hand in and then Raph says just put it back and start over. You don't have to throw out all the flour start. Why? When you put it back in you made it. It should be no good. When you put it in, you didn't have intent to have the make it. You have to have intent. Everything in Judaism is in the mind. Everything we do a mitzvah. You have to think. If you don't think, no good. You could think, you could have the same action, take the same thing. If you thought one way, it's it's good. The other way over here also you put it back into the if you don't have that intent that I wanted to be kadesh, it doesn't it doesn't happen. So what do you tell me? But if you did have intent that it should be it would become but if if so how come it is wants can take something that's hle and make it so you can put it on that it doesn't Why not? Over here you say that by putting in this non good that was done by Israel it makes it if you had the right intent. So he says you have to make a distinction. What was saying is that it's not enough to put it on the but it is enough to make it possible. Oh, so you know what? Let me just show you what Yoshi did. Here's a bisaka. You guys see it? Bisucha, meaning it's overflowing. It's there's a big heap over there. And therefore, what? That's why there's no because it's outside of the cle. The cle in order for a cle to make it has to be within the rim. It can't be above the rim. So says, "Oh comments, if that's the case, how did he do?" He took from the big heap, which is not in a which is not a good. So we have to retract a little bit. What happened was he put it back and it was it was very full like this. Was all the way to the top. Okay. in the comments of the Guma. But wait a minute, if it was all the way to the top by him here going to demonstrate. Better not get on my tie and soup. Okay. So, this is the this is the flower. Yeah. He puts his hand in like this. straight in and takes three fingers worth like that. So what happened? You guys see the hole. So there's a hole. So when he puts it back in, he put it right back into the hole. So it's great that it's in the cle. It has to be below the rim. So you tell me, "Oh, it's not below the rim because it's very full." Okay. But when he did his kamita, he went like this. He made a giant hole and then when he put it back we rap said put it back. So he puts it right back into the hole. So what does answer here's a hole where it says made a big hole. He put it right back into the hole. I got to move this. says, "So the says, look, he put it right over here on the side." Oh, you see this is no good because this is above the rim. Yeah, he didn't put it in the hole. We're talking about that he took out the kamita was good. Why? Because it was level. He did a good kamita, but he didn't put it back in the hole. If he put it back in the hole, it wouldn't be a problem. will be the problem is that he put it back on top and then what I'm a little nervous to do it. I'm going to do it for the if it falls on me it's great. Says he did like this and he shook it up. You see now it went below the rim sort of and that's okay. Now, logically speaking, what would you say by him shaking it like this? Did he put it back in the hole or it happened by itself? What do you say he shook it up and went into the hole? >> I would think also it's his but says no. Look what the Gumar says. U very strong language. It's as if a monkey put it back. Here we have we actually have a little bit of a thing. Not nothing major. In other words, you didn't put the flower into the hole. You shook it like this and it kind of it's like an after effect. I don't exactly understand the I have to tell you the truth. But that's what Gumar says. Says I have a question. It's actually a proof, not a question. What are you asking me? You're saying when you take that that with your fingers and you put it back in the should make it on the spot and actually ruin it. Why? Because I'm a Israel. I'm not a I have no right to take the kim by me putting it back in here. It should be ruined because the fact is this is a clearist. It's a golden cle. It's a vessel of has gusha and anything you put in it becomes kadesh. So me the Israel I put it back in comes to ruin it. So he says I have a maybe this vessel is on a table it's on the floor a is not holding it and I put it back in. So this it didn't it didn't have any you see from the fact that the didn't answer that that that's not a problem that this this vessel doesn't need behold held from a you don't doesn't have to hold it that's what he holds you actually touched upon a question that we This is like an we're going into a story here. It's almost like um ADD sort of always says and that's I use this all the time. I this idea when you have a story in the middle of learning you just you just say it right like Hashem threw you gave you a story don't don't worry about it you're in the middle of a sudden just go this is exactly what happens here look look how it works he says this is a question that we had was learning as the before we even go any further The rebi how's learning from his once said interesting words I got beat up physically or verbally from my because I forgot something in learning the what if the orphans have to pay back like a debt and we want to take some of the inheritance and sell it so they can pay back the debt. We want it we want them to get the the the highest price most value for their for whatever they're selling. So what do we do? We we announce it for 30 days or we announce it for 60 days only on Mondays and Thursdays. So we do that for 60 days it adds up to 18. Yeah. So the way you could uh understand it is let's say if you're doing khazara on gimra on anything if you took this daff and you reviewed it 10 times in a row in one day would be much less effective than doing it like every other day or once a week. You know five times once a week is much better than 10 times in one day. So the same thing over here. If they announce it 30 days in a row, it's not as powerful as announcing it 18 times over the the course of 60 days. But now we're like smack in the middle of something. Got smacked by because he forgot this. So you see the is actually the student. So explains. So how is it possible that learned says forgot entire he went to to learn it. I thought it's fascinating when forgot a little little he got a smack from him and he forgot the entire he didn't get beat up by he went to learn from. Okay. So he goes to learn from him. He's the come to me and teach me. I think this is this is wonderful. This line right over here by me going to embarrassing myself walking over there whatever it is I'll have more in in this learning. bumps into how do you do he points literally like caring see you see that that that that bowl right over there like that that that's how you do could I use something like that that's on on on the floor I was saying that that's a great plea I didn't say like that on the floor has to lift it okay so Now I take the the flour and I want to put it into a cle to make it. I I brought from home. I brought a bag of flour. I want to put in a cle. How do I do that? He put it here. He pointed to that. So he asked him, could you use something that's on the floor? No, we're talking of course that is holding it. It comes out that you need three khan. You need one kayen to hold the big k another kayen to stick his hand in and do kam and a third kay to hold the second k right because you take the he put into a smaller vessel. So you need three. So what's the big deal? So you had three every morning and every afternoon in the b mikdash 7 days a week 365 they brought a how many kayan do you need for that? You need 13. Okay. So big deal. So you have three. Well, why is three such a big deal? When you take the and you put it into the vessel, when you take the vessel of the and you bring it to the putting it onto that's the we're not going to go into it that as he's doing one of these things the essential he could have in mind that's going to eat it in three days from now by doing so he ruins it because that's you could only eat it for a certain amount the time, not 3 days. But once you think about it, it's over. And if he he would eat it, he would get for that. How come it says it doesn't say anything about the kind holding it? I'll tell you why. Of course, you have to hold it. We're talking about the We're not talking about the lighter things like the kind holding it. this exact question that we just had until now. What's from that's on the ground and is not holding look what they do inside when referring to. So it says each holds six breads. So that's two holding six breads. That's 12 breads and two other hold the two which contain the you can see the twoam holding six breads back there. So four remove everything and four put it back on. Oh, so now in this process right over here, right, these guys, this one right over here, when you have the eight people taking the bread, putting the bread, how come it doesn't mention about another two people lifting up the table? Doesn't say anything that you have to lift the table. Isn't it similar to kam where a has to hold the k while you're putting while you're doing the kam have to hold the table while they put the the bread in. And Rashi explains that the those spoonfuls of levina is what allows the khanim to eat from the bread. So they're the m it's what we call a matter. When you when you burn those then you're able to eat the bread. It's the same thing says Rashi when it comes to when I go like this I put my hand in there take three then allows the to eat the rest of the flour. So they're similar says you're right maybe a does have to hold it. So Rashi says over here something interesting says Rashi the reason why it's not mentioned maybe says Rashi or the explaining the reason why lifting the table is not so important wasn't part of because it's not an it's an not an important one so it's not in the list but maybe does have to lift up the table says wait a minute when we said that's not part of the list because we're only talking We're not talking about the great over counting how many there are. You're going through numbers. There's eight. Four do this, four do that. Don't you think if there's a ninth and lifting the table, shouldn't you mention them? You see that you could do when the is on the on the ground on the table. You don't need a to hold it. That's how we started off the six lines from the top. This we already established. It's so simple that if the bowl of flowers on the floor on a table, the could do the you don't need another to hold it. Why? We saw, we already proved it from the Schulhan that they there's nobody lifting the table over there and they took off the frankincense from the without a kind holding it. Next, when I go home and I bring a bag of flour from my pantry and I bring it to the mdash, I need to make it. Even though I say by the way when I say that this bag of flour is going to be a so it does become a little bit it becomes I want to make it really kadesh I need to put it into a so how do I do that I put it I could put it into that's on the ground doesn't have to be holding it we find the same thing about the you take the bread you put it into the doesn't have to be holding But there's something that I don't know when what's the process again? There's a large bowl. I put my hand in the large bowl, take three fingers worth and put it into the small bowl. That small bowl, does a have to hold it or not? What's the question? Do I learn it from the rest of the things of we just established I could do the and I could put the flower even though the bowl is on the ground. So too the second B could be on the ground or I learned from blood we had the whole last is talking all about this that when the in the animal blood comes squirting out of the neck you have to grab the blood with a with a has to go into and that blood is the final you bring it to the and you sprinkle it on that a has to be holding you can't have a a a cle sitting on the ground grabbing the blood has to be holding the that we learn from suki. So the question is and what is the question? I wish I had this but I don't. I mentioned it before I'll mention again. This process of taking kima from flour mimics a carbon. Abon has four receiving the blood moving the blood to the pouring the blood on the so we have we have the which is similar to we have you taking that putting into a small vessel that's like receiving the blood then the takes that small vessel moves it to the that's then he puts it out of That's like so. So this idea of putting the the into a bowl is similar to of dam and dam. We know that a that a kay has to be holding the kle when he receives the blood. So to the really say this this he takes flower with three fingers. He puts one and a half fingers worth in one vessel one and a half fingers word in another vessel. Is that good? Says it's good. The problem is if Ra is the one who compares the putting of the into the small vessel like the blood receiving the blood in the small vessel he shall learn from blood and by blood you can't put half and half you need to put all the blood into one vessel says you're right he says that when you he agrees to that if you put a half and half into it's no good he he regretted How do you know that you can't make blood halfway? If you put half of the blood in one cle and half in another cle. This is by this is a little bit of exaggeration but what they would do is they take the thes here and they would dunk it into the paraduma water. It has the it's mixed water. It's not that violent, but yeah. And they would spray the guy with the So now what happens? There's more. Uhoh. What happened if this cle doesn't have enough water? You have to use two kum. So you see it doesn't work. You need to put all the water into one vessel. What about the inner they do on on let's say what about blood everything about the we know is that's it there's there's no tells us you have to do it so and you can't learn anything else from it or perhaps no part says the word and it teaches us that you have to have enough water. You can't use two different vessels. It has to all be in one. So to buy blood, it says the same wording. I would know that you can't use two vessels. It has to be in one. No, you should know that if you have this is how we know it that the end of the day if it you put the blood you did it in two different vessels it's not considered a good when the here let me show you the doing in the in the you know on we say so that's this right over here. He takes blood, dunks his finger in the blood and and pours it on the floor. Seven in a row. Now, we're going to be talking about it. You cannot do mapping. You can't do this. You can't take from the blood that's on the on the edges. You got to stick it right into the into the blood. You have to have all the seven drops of blood in that one vessel. You can't have one vessel that's three drops and the other vessel four. That doesn't work. All them have to be in what? What does that mean? We'll see in a second. You need both to dunk and blood. You have to dunk your finger in there. I would think that even if you don't have enough blood for all seven you need in that one vessel you need all seven sprinkles because I think they could go around like this like the yogurt. No, you have to dunk it in there. What does it mean? We we read these words but we didn't understand what it meant. What does that mean? It's interesting means that when you put your finger into the into the blood and you sprinkle you think that you could go again you have enough blood to do it a second time. No. In fact, I saw in the art scroll but not an hour. So I have to ask my so why not an hour? The arch says you have to wipe your finger down every time between between dipping in. That's the arch. I don't know where they got it from. I don't see it in our translation doesn't have it. But if it's true, they have to wipe it down. It's a problem. We should put it in there. Again, we're talking about the inner and this is an interesting we discussed a lot in and that is if some of the blood from the the carbon goes on the garment, there's a to wash it. you must wash the garment. So he says he was in the middle of doing the he got on his garment he's if it's before he did any of the sprinkles you have to wash your garments once he's done it's not right anymore so you don't have to you don't have to wash the clothing but let's let's understand it says what does it mean there's two there's two types that he finished completely there's before he finished and after he You see from here that if he didn't finish then the on the finger are good enough to continue on. Why do you why are you telling me you can't why do you why are you telling me you have to dunk in every single time? Says it means we're talking about each individual sprinkle. You could break it down to seven different sprinkles. on each and every one. You dunked your finger in and then it got your clothing dirty. Then you then you have to wash your clothing. Once you went like this, you sprinkled it on that individual one. Then you don't have to wash your clothing. The way it worked is they would take their hand and wipe their hand down on the paradum. Why? Because later on, they're going to burn the entire paradum. Like, so let's see. I think we have it over here. So, we want everything to be burned, including all the blood that's left over. We burn it. How do you burn it? The kind goes, it's kind of nasty. Take your the bloody hand. You go like this on the part. I'll tell you why I think it's nasty. I'll show you in a second. Seems like when you're completely finished, but if not, you don't you don't wipe your hand down. No, no, no. You're right. It's a good deal what you just said because it seems like in between fingers like fingers, you could continue doing sprinkles from fingers. No, if you finished, wipe your hand down on the cow. But if you didn't finish completely, you must wash your finger down like we were saying that you have to wipe your finger down. I mean, maybe that's where the school got it from right over here. You have to wipe your finger off in between each and every says I understand why you have to wipe your hand down on the cow. You should burn the cow. So says something very interesting. How are you going to wipe your finger down? Says Rashi because you're not by the cow. The cow is down there. You're on top. Seems like you're doing the the sprinkles in a different place, says Rash. So why I'm gonna make you go in between each one. You have to do seven sprinkles. You're going to go up and down the mountain. This is Harm, right? Where do you do this? This right over here is on facing the door of the I'm going to make you go up and down. We and had a different shot. He says if you going to wipe your finger on the cow, it's going to look like this. Kid, you're going to get your your finger all dirted. And then they they skip over here. How do you how do you clean your You're right. You don't wipe it down on the cow. You wipe it down on the vessel. On the on the edge of the vessel. is of wiping it down. Have a wonderful day. >> Merit the of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor Ashir today. mdysponsor.com or sponsor atmop.com.