CHAZARAH - Menachos Daf 67 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] [chant] >> Rava says three halachas. And that's a lot of today's discussion. Especially the question that they ask about a fourth halacha. So let's get the three halachas, simple halachas. One of them is what we learned yesterday. Miruach is when you smooth out the the wheat, something like this. And that is the Gemara halacha. That's the final step of harvesting the wheat. And when you do that step, that's when you're chayav in trumah and ma'aser. When that final step of miruach, smoothing out, happens in the Beis Hamikdash, you're patur. Yesterday we thought for a second that maybe Rebbe Akiva argues, "No." Everybody agrees that miruach of hekdesh patur. Why? Because it says in the pasuk, if you remember, it says "reishis degoncha", your private stash, not the Beis Hamikdash's doga. And it's almost like what we said yesterday, we're just repeating. The reason why Rebbe Akiva says by the omer that you're chayav on whatever's left over or when you're chayav on you're chayav on on the ma'aser and leftover of the omer is because it's really private, it's private dogon, it's private barley. Why is it private? Because whoever gave it to the Beis Hamikdash gave it on condition that they're going to use whatever amount they're using for the omer. And whatever's left over is private. And private dogon is chayav ma'aser. Ah, but miruach hekdesh ba'al omer patur. But if the hekdesh owns it completely, it wasn't given on condition, then the fact that the hekdesh does the final step, boom, it's patur. So that's halacha number one. What's halacha number one? That the miruach of hekdesh is patur. When you do I'm going to ask you later to remember because I don't remember. So remember, the first halacha is when you when the hekdesh smooths out the pile, then it becomes patur from trumah and ma'aser because it's not the goncha. It's not private. Halacha number two. Miruach oved kochavim tanaihi. This we have a machlokes. And this machlokes the Gemara is going to say, does this machlokes have anything to do with something so similar to this? What's the machlokes here? Miruach oved kochavim What if the We're talking about a second ago. Hekdesh does it. What if a smooths it out? That's machlokes tanai. And the Gemara What the Gemara is going to do soon is say and Rava says that when a does lisha, when a kneads the dough, so it's dependent on this machlokes. If you hold that a that does miruach, you're patur, so too kneading the dough. In other words, the final step in the avodah, what's the final step in the in in the grain? Smoothing it out. What's the final step in I'm just We don't have to say it. I just want to make it easier when we get there. What's the final step in It's not a complicated thing. It's another chazarah. What's the final step in making dough? Kneading it. So Rava says that the lisha and miruach are the same thing. Okay, so what's the halacha here? Forget that. We'll get there in a minute. Miruach oved kochavim tanaihi. If a non-Jew smooths out the grain, Rebbe Akiva is tanai in the Sanhedrin. Tarmen mishal Yisrael al Yisrael. If a Jew purchases produce from two different Jews, then obviously he could take some of the produce, 10 apples from one Jew, and make it trumah and ma'aser, make it the ma'aser on the 100 apples of another Jew cuz Jew and Jew are equal. They both have the same chiyuv. U'mishal oved kochavim al oved kochavim. And this is also a If you buy you Jew buy from two different non-Jews, two Arabs, let's say, so since the cannot be mafkiya al Yisrael, he doesn't have the right to uproot land in Israel, in Eretz Yisrael, so mamila >> [snorts] >> it's chayav ma'aser. So if it's chayav ma'aser, you can take from one chayav onto another chayav. Let's do this now. Let's uh we'll we'll do a little uh We have to think for a second. If I take fruit that's patur from ma'aser and I use it to do trumah on something that's chayav ma'aser. No good. Why is it no good? Why? What did What did I do wrong? It's patur. This this this is like taking a a table, a piece of wood, and saying this should be trumah on fruit. It doesn't work. It It's not It's not in the same category. It's patur. Something that's patur can't You can't make it trumah and ma'aser. It's not a chayav. Can't take a computer make a computer ma'aser on fruit. What if you do the opposite? Do the opposite. You take something that's chayav in trumah and ma'aser and you use it to do trumah and ma'aser on something that's patur. Let's say a has produce that's patur. Let's just say. If you take Jewish fruit, 10 apples, and you say, "Oh, this should be trumah and ma'aser on a goyisha thing." It's also not good. Why is it not good? That's what he was saying. Because now the 10 apples, they have a problem. They themselves You never took trumah and ma'aser from those 10 apples. And they're not good trumah on something else cuz it's not necessary. So mamila that's why it's awesome. So you take non-Jewish produce and you take ma'aser from non-Jews. U'mishal Kushim al Kushim and a Kushite from a Kushite u'mishal kol al kol. This is a chiddush. You can take the non-Jewish produce and use it for ma'aser on the Jewish produce. Why? Because the miruach of a doesn't give him a way out. He doesn't give him a way out. Because the smeared it doesn't mean he's patur, he's chayav. Then a daiker. Oh, so you see he's chayav. This is the man that says that a is chayav. Which is interesting at the end we're going to see that in fact the should be patur, but we're The only concern, that's all the way at the end of the sugia, we're concerned that he's going to do shtick. You have a lot a lot of produce. Jews like to do shtick. You know, they find a little the way out of everything. So you have a million pounds of wheat. You just give it to one you sell it to him for five, you know, like mechiras chametz. He He smears it this way and that way. Okay, patur from ma'aser. I just saved 10%. So says the Gemara, D'vei Rebbe Yehuda. So does Rebbe Yehuda say what? That a a um is not patur. is chayav. Rebbe Yosi Rebbe Shimon ben Rebbe Tarmen mishal Yisrael al Yisrael. Rebbe Yosi is going to say that a is patur. U'mishal oved kochavim al Kushim. You can go from a to Kushim u'mishal Kushim al oved kochavim. Aval u'mishal Yisrael al oved kochavim, you can't go from chayav to patur cuz a is patur versus Kushim or to Kushim was patur. Aval u'mishal oved kochavim, you can't go from patur u'mishal Kushim al Yisrael. So now we explain, why can't you go from chayav to patur? Because then the actual produce that you use for the trumah is is tevel. And you can't go from patur to chayav because it doesn't have the ability to patur. To make trumah. Okay. And that's halacha number three. Finally, the third halacha that Rava says in the final halacha, gilgul hekdesh patur. Gilgul means to knead. Lisha. To knead the dough. Oh, so I'm going to show you this. It's gevaldig. You guys did a fantastic job over here. Okay, so she didn't knead the dough. What What did she do? She mixed in the the ingredients, but she didn't knead it. So the At this point, is this dough chayav with in challah? Not yet. So now we go to the next thing. Now she made it hekdesh. So it became red. And then she was patur. She redeemed it. She took all the kedusha from the dough, from the from the I shouldn't say dough, from the flour, from the ingredients, and she put it into money. So now it's no longer hekdesh. Now here's the question. Rebbe Ovadia now that you saw that, if she goes ahead and kneads the dough, is she chayav in challah or not chayav in challah? You say what? What do you got? What do you say? Misvara. Svara, don't guess. Svara. No, no. She did She Hold on. She didn't She didn't do lisha. The The lisha is coming up now. Here. Here. Now she did lisha, but the lisha She liked that part. The lisha happened when it was back in her possession. It took a break. It took a bit of zman. Yeah, it was hers, went to the Beis Hamikdash for for a minute, came back to her. But she did the lisha, she did the kneading. Therefore it's chayav in challah. Let's keep on going to the next case. She did the lisha when when it was hers. So now it's chayav in challah. The fact that you go ahead and you give it to the Beis Hamikdash, too bad. You're chayav in challah. She did the same thing. She was makdish it, and then she was patur. She's chayav in challah. Those fingers are perfect for her the her whole style. Now, here's a case where she's patur. Why? Because she didn't do lisha. She didn't do the kneading. She's just putting ingredients in. She gave it to the base hamigdash and she didn't redeem it. The gizbar went ahead and took it and he did the the kneading. It's a halacha. Potter. Why? Because the over here the kneading happened in the base hamigdash. Guess where this mishna is in maseches challah. The s'na says in the mishna kidisha isasa actually gilgula if she donated her ingredients to the base hamigdash before she kneaded it uvidato and she redeemed it chayevas cuz now it's back in her possession and then she did the the the lisha in her possession she's chayev in challah. What happens if misha gilgulo vidato she was magdishes after the kneading so so once she kneaded it it's chayev in challah and then she redeemed it chayev she's chayev in challah. Kidisha actually gilgula if she was magdishes before she was able to knead it the gilgulo agizbar vidato and then the gizbar everything we saw inside mamesh in the view of the video is right in front of our face. Tura why she potter she's as if as if tura because when there's a chiyuv challah when they did the kneading it was in the in the in the possession of the base hamigdash and you're potter. Here comes the question. Now that we know this three the three ah shabshi what are the three things? We have the miruach of ah hegdish. Miruach of hegdish we said is 100% potter. Then we have the miruach of a we said it's machlokes. Then we have the lisha of a woman but basically the lisha of base of of hegdish is 100% potter from challah. By Rava gilgula mai we didn't say whether or not when a a non-Jew does lisha does he create a potter? By Rava gilgulo mai. Mishnas nan do we learn gershon is chayev is lisha. A person who became a convert a ger and he had dough nasas ashlini is gayer if he made the dough right before he became a ger it's interesting maseh you know. As he's becoming a ger he's going to the mikveh but he's busy making sarah dough. So then if he did it while he's a potters pashut. Okay so this is what we're looking for. Potters is over here that if a does challah potter. This is this m'na. Which is gayer once he becomes a ger then obviously he's a complete Jew chayev. So he's chayev in challah. Safek chiyuv what if he we we don't know the safek he's chayev. If we don't know he's chayev. Now says the gemara how many can turn it off. Who who's the author of this? Divrei cholev afilu remember of Yehuda. Digum chayev osam. Maybe goes even to the corner of Yehuda remember with the sugya that we just saw a minute ago that what? That when a does miruach he shmears it. Re- remember Yehuda say in that case he's chayev. So maybe patriacha. Over there digum chayev osam they were chayev over there but over here patriacha. In our case of challah potter why? Hashem would have saved the goncha the goncha yatira. So we have this concept anytime the Torah says something twice it's a double negative and a double negative is a positive. So we saw the the word the goncha yesterday. Raises the goncha. It has to be yours not the not the not the basans not the hegdish. But it also says the goncha a second time. Says it actually a third time. Shagashmaisha mast the goncha tirasha. So since we have these two negatives only yours not something else so we're going to learn something from it. What are we going to learn? Is the goncha yatira it's actually miyuta miyut. It's a double negative. V'miyuta miyut ela rabah is a double negative is a positive. Two wrongs make a right. Yeah you know that? Ela rabah so comes to include afilu chovin even when a non-Jew does makes a dough is chayev in challah. He does Ah yeah yeah yeah okay fine. You're right. I'm talking about the lisha. The goncha the dog in a second we're going to talk about lisha. The goncha the goncha yatira. It says the goncha thank you. Have a miyuta miyut. V'miyuta miyut ela rabah digum chovin. So if a does miruach you're chayev. That's dafka in that case that's why remember Yehuda to say chayev in miruach. Aval halacha in our case by challah trey zimnei is a chayev. Challah is the same kidai sasam. So when anytime when we have these two words the goncha the goncha the reason why the double negative works to make it a positive is because these words are not They're they're they're they're they are extra. We have nothing to do with them. So we have nothing to do with them they become a double negative and double negative is a positive. But if you have a if you have something to learn you have a limud from each one then you can't do a double negative. What's the limud when we have the arisey saychem? Arisey saychem k'siv. Says twice. Aval halacha trey zimnei arisey saychem k'siv. And what do we learn from it? Challah arisey saychem kidai sasam. This is a interesting halacha that in order to be chayev in challah we know how much everybody knows there's a certain shiur that you need to to be chayev in challah. 2.2 kilos like 5 lbs barach. Where does it come from? Comes from the omer. The omer was a se'ah s'aifa tenth of an eifah. Aval halacha trey zimnei arisey saychem arisey saychem kidai sasam here. The omer the amount of the omer is a se'ah s'aifa tenth of an eifah. Eifah is 433 eggs or something like that. So it's 43 eggs .3 The .3 is a whole the whole kneading. This is a shiur. If you make a challah you make challah you make a dough less than 43 eggs you don't have to take challah from it. Unless of course if your wife does makes a challah a batch of challah and it's less than 5 lbs let's say barach or if you're s'faradi it's much less it's 1.6 kilo. If you're Ashkenazi it's 2.2 kilo. If her batch is less then she doesn't you're not there's no chiyuv challah d'oraisa. How do you know that? From arisey saychem. It should be your your dough the way you make it typically. Like the omer everybody got 43 eggs worth of food. V'challah arisey saychem v'lo isasa chovin here. V'lo isasa saychem. So we learn from here that the the the dough of a is potter. Yes means the dough of a potter chayev here it's potter. According to this m'na. O dilma Rebbi Eliezer Rebbi Shimon kotni lo digum patri aval remember Yehuda gamrei reishis reishis m'osam. Mat- perhaps remember Yehuda once they learn from dogon the goncha that the miruach of is chayev in ma'aser so they're going to learn gezera shava also to to this to the lisha to the gilgul that you're also chayev. If they say chayev over here they're going to say chayev. Yeah? Potter. Why potter? How do you get the potter? Right. I'm talking about remember Yehuda. Um o dilma Rebbi Eliezer Rebbi Shimon kotni lo digum patri aval remember Yehuda I'm saying remember Yehuda gamrei reishis reishis m'osam. Remember Yehuda learned gezera shava that chayev. Amar Rav. Yehuda Rav d'achzi b'chelma. I wish I hope I get a vision in my dream. Is it a machlokes or we have an agreement here on the the the kneading of of a When a kneads the dough are you potter or chayev? Potter from challah or chayev? Cholov amar Rava forget the dream. I I have it figured out. Mando amar miruach chovin potter gilgulo chovin potter. They go they're hand in hand. They're they're they're they're connected in a way. If you hold that the miruach the shmearing of the wheat a is is not is not chayev in ma'aser if he does it so then the if the kneads the dough he's he's potter from challah. Once the does the final melacha miruach or gilgul which is lisha which is kneading either one of those he's potter. And if you hold that one of those you're chayev so both of them you're chayev. If you hold that the final melacha done by a he's chayev in ma'aser so he's chayev in challah. If he's chayev in challah chayev in ma'aser. They go hand in hand. And now the gemara is going to ask well wait a minute we see that they don't go they don't go hand in hand. Here's a braysa that says one is potter and the other one is chayev so they don't go together. Mando amar chovin potter gilgulo chovin potter. Ezra Papa Rava asks Rebbi Papa a kasha it says ovigichovin shivish petter chamor There's a big mitzvah to do petter chamor. The oilam is very busy in getting donkeys and being shotum in donkey. Look at this this you hear the bracha for the first time. So Ezra Papa ovigichovin shivish petter chamor he decided to set aside a sheep for the donkey to redeem the donkey if you have a a new um a newborn donkey. You have to redeem it with a sheep b'challah or he decided to be a big tzadik and be mafresh challah. With the noise of the potter I said maybe the p'shat is why would a do petter chamor? Because he's in the business of petter you know you know the there's a that made a lot of money. He he said I'll buy your aveiros before Rosh Hashanah. Like he was the the tashlich. You give him 100 bucks he says whatever it is shana is more you have to give me more. It's like it's like I'll buy your aveiros and people actually gave him money maseh shaya. So this is into the petter chamor business. He's you know he's doing petter chamor is the whole thing. Challah. He he he's going to be mafresh challah. Moydino so we let him know shupoter you don't have to. V'challah is not zarim it's nothing your challah is not a kodish it's not like truma you could eat it. U'petter chamor is allowed but you're allowed to work this animal you're allowed to shear its wool. But it's mashma that's all challah petter chamor hotrumasa sura. But if when it comes to truma of a that would be ossur. The problem is you just said that challah is muttar. So, you you said challah and and trumah would be the same. So, if trumah is ossur, challah would be ossur. You just said challah is muttar. Are you allowed to eat it? Are you allowed to eat it? You know you know about trumah that the kohen gets trumah from the challah. He gets the challah. Get bagels, pizza, the whole thing. Um but I don't know if I have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have If you take challah in Eretz Yisrael, the trumah is that this is the that trumah in chutz la'aretz. Doesn't say anything about trumah in Eretz Yisrael. Trumah in chutz la'aretz. So, he said when you say you should potter, why do you take trumah in chutz la'aretz in Chicago? Why are you taking trumah now? You're potter. Mishnah that in Yerushalayim, if you took trumah, it's good trumah. It's a problem. It's a contradiction to what the rabbi said. Why? Challah in Eretz Yisrael, he's potter from challah. What trumah is the trumah you did in in Chicago and in New York? It doesn't have the power to make fruit ossur to eat. But mishnah trumah in Eretz Yisrael, if a guy took trumah in Eretz Yisrael, but chametz ossur, it becomes ossur with the mass. And if a fell one apple fell into to 99 apples, they become ossur. What's going on here? On the one hand you're saying that the guy is chayev in challah. On the other hand, you tell me that oh, and gilgul is potter. The the the trumah is chayev and gilgul is potter. How does it work? You said it goes hand in hand. Says the Gemara with the rabbonim we're concerned that people with a lot of money, deep pockets, kisim, they have a lot of property. They have a lot of produce. So, what's the way to get out of it? You go and you do harama. You do shtick. You sell your stuff to the guy. You sell all your produce to the guy. He comes along and does miruach. He goes like this. One one or two times. Then he sells it back to you for the same price he bought it from you. That's called shtick. And shtick is ossur. So, as the Gemara, the other shtick in Yiddishkeit, Yochai, I feel the challah nami. What I don't understand. You if you have a bakery, you just sell it to the guy and the guy is going to do the the kneading and then you're potter from challah. You save a lot also. Says the Gemara, no, that's not a concern. After the offer the law potter that little bit. Remember before we said in order to be chayev in challah, how many eggs worth do you need to do? 43. But in pounds, how much? Right around 5 lb. So, you do 42 eggs. If you do 42 eggs at a time, you're not chayev in challah unless you put in the freezer we said. Remember, the freezer is a cle. So, if you put into one drawer one one cle, it it it's been You do 42 eggs plus 42 eggs and now you have 84 eggs. That's already chayev in challah. I call upon him, you could do smaller batches and that's really better, this is Rashi. Rashi says do you have a There's a way to do it better. So, nobody's going to go to the guy and ask him to knead the bread when that's not okay. You have a real way to do it. If you have a better way to do it and a non Even though the better way might be harder, and not as uh What's the word I'm looking for? Pragmatic Pragmatic is the word? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to do it that way. It's much better just to get a guy and do some kneading. But nevertheless, people will do the harder way, the the better way. Void means just the 42 plus. Trumah in Eretz Yisrael is chayev. Oh, and and to get out of trumah, now I can do shtick. What's the shtick? I can do I don't know what I I can do shtick. Harama. It's cheating. What What do you mean by motzilo? This is motz. Motz is the shaft. It's the the the peel or whatever you want to call it. There's the grain inside and then you have the So, if you bring it into your house with the shaft, that's animal food. And animal food is not chayev in trumah. What do you do afterwards? Okay. You're going to leave it as is. You're potter. That's no good. We don't want cheating. We don't want tricks. Be be ossur. Oh, this is the famous one. The guy goes with their videos. There's a halacha that tells us He ate all the salad. In order to be chayev in trumah and ma'aser, you have to bring it in through the front door. If you bring it through the back, you bring through a skylight, through the roof it says over here, potter. So, have a great way to get out of it. This is sticky. I just bring it into the house through the roof. You know That is the guy with the videos. So, the Gemara oh, over there, how come we're not concerned? Before you're going to go with a whole truck and bring through the river. Everybody's going to know. It's a lot. He He's not going to do it. How come over here when it comes to the guy, we're concerned nobody nobody has to know about it and therefore he'll do it and he'll he'll do file a shtick as they say. That's why we we we we we cancel it. Says the Gemara, but we're holding at the end of the of the entire process of making. So, here we go. Check this out. Oh, since I already did share, so it's giving me trouble. First, as you remember, they pour the oil on the bottom of the the thing. Then they put the the the flour. Then on top of that, they put more oil. Now, look what he does. I like that. He made a little indentation there so the oil stays there because it's actually wine. You don't want the oil to touch the wine. It's very problematic if any of the flour goes missing, any of the So, we get there. That's step number one. You put oil. You put the wine. You Then you Remember what means? Put the second layer of oil. And then he he mixes it all together. Something like this maybe. You don't want the You don't want the flour to go into the wine, but okay. Good smell. Hey, nef. What's This is This is the roof of the paint. This one over here is I got show. Hey, nef. He gets comments. Where is the comments? Oh, comments. I don't think I showed this to the Israelis. Come on. Put it in the bowl. Come on. How do you add this to the Israeli one? This is important. Oh, oh, maybe it wasn't there. It wasn't there. And you put salt on it. Look at the salt in the background over there. I wrote a story. Okay. How do you have in Yerushalayim all this product ready when the pasuk says So, check out this pasuk. We got to talk about this again because a lot of people make fun of me for saying this, but they don't I I really believe that they don't know that it's a pasuk. They think it's like a like a Lithuanian pasuk. It's in the pasuk. That's how you say it. You can't eat the new produce until you bring the carbon. Diner. For all generations in all cities and all anywhere you live around the world. Okay. So, there is the bach that's matter, but most argue on the bach and argue. So, there is a better, but if you're going to do the better, at least know that it's better. Like it could be better and using a better, you know, but don't don't make fun of those who are making. That's all That's all I'm asking. Know that it's You have to know your stuff, right? You have to know it's a pasuk not to eat it. So, if you know So, here's the spot. Here's the Here's the question. Can you deal with it? Can you touch it before? What's the concern? The concern is if you if you deal with it before, you might eat it. There's certain things that you're not allowed to do. Like you're not allowed to touch something because you might eat it. It would be kind of a different problem maybe. So, you go and you You go to Yerushalayim and you You go out and you see that everybody's eating ready-made flour that's already roasted. He says this is against the will of the kohen. He says that it goes against the will. Doesn't he Look, we see We're talking about the and and and Pesach. We have to do >> [clears throat] >> the baking of the matzah. You have to do the baking of the And what if you forgot to do it at night? You do it in the morning. And if you forgot in the morning, when do you do it? But after that, you're not allowed to do it. Why can't you do it? Because you might come to eat the You find a nice piece of pizza and you're starving. You might eat it. Then how am I going to remember nice Dunkin' Donuts or Krispy Kreme? I'm in the mood. Then how am I going to remember not to eat it? You could You could still be by the in the in the Yom Tov. You're not concerned. But he's concerned. You might come to eat it. So, he's not concerned in our that you might come to eat the new the new crop. But he thought to He thought to make a special They are not allowed to just reap it with a tool. You have to grab with your hands. So, people say, "Why am I doing this with my hand?" Oh, cuz it's ossur. So, then they'll be reminded not to eat it. Have a wonderful day. Merit the zechus of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a shiur today. mdy.sponsor.com or [music] sponsored.mdy.org.com