CHAZARAH - Menachos Daf 54 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> Good morning Reb boys I >> [screaming] >> We're boys I we're holding six lines in the bottom of base. We had in the mission of my how do you introduce the leavening agent to the flour. You have a mincha that has an amount of flour. Do you remove part of the flour and make it a leavening agent and then you reintroduce it back. The problem with that is that it won't be very very strong. The other idea is to take starter that you already have this leavening agent. I don't know if it's called sorry leavening agent and put it into the flour. That we said is problematic because since it's moist it's going to reduce the amount of flour. The volume is going to reduce the volume of flour. So and and the the mission says oh it's going to be you say or it's going to be more or less. Which one is it? If it reduces so it's less. What is you say or what is it mean? Says you might say you say or. What does it mean? It's going to be less or more? All right so he says it's over. It depends what kind of what are you doing there? If you have very little water so a little amount of water is going to reduce the volume of the flour. When you introduce water it's going to the flour is going to go down. This is you say or means you say or it means so then you're going to want to add more flour to get to the to the you say or in part because it just dropped the level of flour so you add more flour and then you have more flour than you say or. All right now if you do the reverse it's the reverse. In other words you add a lot of water so it becomes very very thin very like like pancake kind of dough. Anybody make it's like almost like you know making an omelet. It's very What? The batter, very good. So you're going to have less flour than you need. So you what do I care? So you keep listening to me. At the end of the day, when I measure it up in a measuring device I'm going to have any sort. Who cares? Water this way, water that way. As the was put it in a measuring but measuring device has water in it. When you measure the you don't have full amount of flour in the measuring device. The answer is no, right now you have any sort. So They both answer the same thing. There's two There's two words. It's the same word but one has a lot of it in front and one doesn't. means means as of now, right now. What do we have now? I look at it now. Right now I have water, I have flour, great. I take whatever I have it, take a measurement. I take any sort, give a lick. means And that's pretty much today's class. So let's get these two words. It's very simple. means right now. It's like in Hebrew and like and like him. Like it was yesterday. So you're going to go like yesterday. Yesterday we had a we had a bunch of flour in or it means like 5 minutes ago. Whatever means like like it was. Maybe it's not even the right touch but you you know what I'm saying. I was just trying to shorten it up a little bit. Like that means that I have to start with what I had in the beginning. I have to take a measurement off the flour. Whatever you introduce later, whatever happened later. I'll give you a muscle that the talks about. Let's say you have a a half an egg worth of meat. And for whatever reason it blows up the matter. So now today I have a today I have a full shear that could become to me. It could be to me to me. So what do I look at? I do I look at it as what I have right now? Right now right now I have a a sheer of a kabeitzah. Or no, where did it start out? You can't just jump to today. What was it 5 minutes ago? 5 minutes ago when I got it off the animals I have a kabeitzah. It blew up because I don't know what it got wet and it and it exploded. What about the opposite? You have a kabeitzah and then later on it shrinks. That's natural. After 2 days it becomes uh uh that stuff that uh what's his name sells in it? Beef jerky. It becomes uh half the size. Mustamik. So, that's the question. That's today's uh basically sugya. Do we view of what Do we view what we have right now in front of us? And right now I have a full sheer or I don't have a full sheer? Same thing over here. I have a vessel that has water that has flour. Give out Let's take an sort of whatever I have in front of me. Let's go. Or no. It actually started out as as dry flour. I need dry flour. I need to take an sort of dry flour. Rabbenu Rabbenu Yosif Amato value likhi moish shahin hoisim sharinon is a different girsa here in the bach. In the uh in the official edition they put the girsa in there. It's kimoisha hoyu. He says shohoyu it's even easier to understand. Shohoyu as it was or shahin cuz the word shahin is a little confusing here. What's the gemara uses it on both words? Shahin. Okay. As the gemara I have I have a practical eitzah. Well, what's the problem? The whole idea is I have an sort of flour. Do I take some flour make it a leavening agent which is very difficult to get it going and to make it strong? Or do I add a leavening agent to it which is also problematic because it's a it reduces the flour volume etc. I have an idea. Let's go put them in a Let's take some flour out of the sheer. But instead of putting it right back in vilachamtzima broy do a whole leavening process the way you need to do it. Warm it up. Put it in a nice warm place. Put it next to other leavening agents. Do whatever you need to do to make it very powerful. Then put it back in. Now you have the exact amount of flour that you started out with. And there's no issues. The the the chachma here is that you're going to do it in a in a in a good way. You're not going to start from scratch. You're not going to just add water to it and wait for it to ferment. And that that takes a long time. You're going to do some ulterior, exterior, whatever it's called things that make it happen. But I say to you that's a great is that the problem is that the problem is that the problem is People will see that after 5-6 hours you come with this leavening agent in a starter bottle. You know they have these It says on it starter. The whole thing is a whole kit. He's going to bring his own from a different place. Not not And what's going to What's the problem? He's going to add new flour to the already perfectly sour. When you bring a leavening agent from your refrigerator and add it to the starter you already have, that's more flour already. Throw it up on them. New signal. Which has to do with other signal. A mach mitzin bet apuchim You cannot use fruit juice as a leavening agent. It doesn't work, says this tana. So the tana kama says a mach mitzin it doesn't work. It doesn't do a good job of leavening. B'shum R' Chanina b'Gamliel omeru mach mitzin. It does work. R' Chanina b'Gamliel omeru mach mitzin. So R' Chanina b'Gamliel omeru mach mitzin. So R' Chanina comes and says no, the the the apple juice is a good leavening agent. R' Chanina b'Gamliel omeru mach mitzin. R' Chanina b'Gamliel omeru mach mitzin. It says that apple juice is a good leavening agent. So now if I tell you this halacha you have to tell me who said it. K'man az omer d'snan says in the mishna tapuach she'riskoi if you take truma. What's truma? If I have a bunch of fruit, I have let's say 100 apples and two I take two and I give it to the coin. Whatever you could really give as much as you want, even a smaller amount. If you want to be average, you give 2% to the coin. So now I have a Truma apple. Shuriska, I made it into apple sauce. Unasani Misahai Isa, and I put apple sauce into the dough. The Himsa and through that it became leavened, it became whatever it's called. It became dough. Harayzu Asura, the dough is also Why is the dough also? I only put in 1 oz of apple sauce to 200 oz of dough, and we know that Truma is bottle the mayo. The answer is because this Truma created something new in the dough. It created the dough. It's not just another small amount. Without it, without the leavening agent, you don't have dough. So but who does this go according to? Because according to the Tana Kama, May Peros, the apple juice and the apple sauce is not a leavening agent. It doesn't do anything. It shouldn't make it also with flour. So it must be that this goes according to the two either of Chanina ben Amel or they said in the name of Chanina ben Traden, but the Madoma that holds that May Peros is a leavening agent. Kaman Leva Chanina ben Amel, but Lo Rabonan. So it's Gomorrah Afilu Tamei Rabonan, not to go according to Rabonan. Nigid Chamas Gomorrah Lo Havei, they hold that and that you probably think to yourself also, like what's going on here? Does it make it Does it leaven it? Does it not leaven it? You You just told me it can't leaven it and it did leaven it. No, it leavens it somewhat. It becomes It's called This is what we spoke about yesterday, Nigid Chamas Gomorrah Lo Havei. It's not 100% Chamas, but Nukshami Havei. It's considered Chamas Nukshami. Nuksha means it's a low-grade comments. It's a schwach very schwach comments. We said yesterday there's a music that it's it's comments to the point that if you eat it, you get mouth cuz you don't get cars. So it's another another level of comments. I know how hard how hard it's a interesting words like kosher like the word kosher it's hard. What's the hardest thing to do in the English? We discuss there's certain things that are extremely hard. To throw of a light feather 40 ft you have to be very strong to to even do me to on a on a on hard bread. You have to be strong. Now we're saying something else. I know how hard it's me to this is more of a technical thing. You have to be a a bucky and how to do me to you mean what's it? Me to is a me to made out of just flour. So imagine you have a bunch of flour in your hand. And then you have to go with your thumb. You took three fingers worth of flour and now with your thumb you go like this. With your pinky according to the Rambam it includes the pinky. Okay, we were going the whole time like this. Right? Shalom aleichem. So you have to go like this. Now you go like this what happens is a lot of if it's flour and very loose it's going to pops out. You know, like there's an indentation over here. You want to make it that's perfect laser. Flush perfect that's the word flush. Because if it's indented then you took out too much. If it pops out no good it's too much. That's to be perfect laser. That's a lot easier to do if you introduce water to it. If it has some consistency. If it's flour it's not it's you know, you you lose control over it. So it's a kosher like me to me to you say to me to This is I know how hard it's me to me to the me to is the hardest >> Mhm. And the cloud comes to give me the oil because the oil is the hardest thing. So it's not a not a big deal. You could you could use water. If you use a little water. Uh maybe I don't know. Oh, so maybe this is how it is. The matter is That now we have a shilo. How do you how do you do kamitza? Do I go by what it was? Freeze frame. What's the freeze frame? Now or before? So if you go by now, so now it has water in it. Good, so I could do kamitza like that. Right now. So right now it has water, great. You have to go what it was back in the day without the water. And if you do it with water, it's not a good kamitza. No, you go with right now. Kamois right now. Kamois now. It's a different side. It says in the Torah, look at this. Should be dry. Dry from if you don't allow any water in it, so you're literally bringing flour out of the mizbeach. It's a little interesting. But that's go for the like this. Maybe means you could add water, you just can't add oil. And therefore I could do kamitza with water in the in the flour and it's easier. It's not allowed to even have water. Okay, so it's a side note. This this idea of do I do you something right now or was before? The matter is over. You get a young young meat. She It it it blew up a little which is the size of what you need for tumor. Now, Rashi kind of contradicts himself. What is What does it mean? Does We're going now that this itself, the heat the the the egg itself is the the meat itself is tummy. In other places Rashi says it's metamer other things. So, if right now it's an egg, so you have a sheer of tumor. What happens the opposite happened? You have a older thing a older meat that condensed it became a shrunk. It shrunk. So, now I have less than a sheer. You go backwards. What's the commotion here? This is This is uh That's why I wasn't ready last night. Uh I'm confused with the clock, but anyways commotion means right now. Like it was saying like it was. Rashi we go with you What do we have now? Right now we have a cabezon. Boom, it's metamer. It's tummy. Uh right now we have a hotty beta. So, what if yesterday it was a beta? So, it's not metamer. May say So, we have a Do we go with what we have right now or what it was? May say beside the egg you have the This match reminds me like sometimes the master chef is going to the scale. You have a little bit of tough luck. You go up 6-7 lbs, but then stomach, you know, like by Tuesday it's gone. You had a uh this How do you say eagle again? No, veal. Veal. Veal was small. The tava and it blew up a little bit. Now it's the size It has the volume of a kabeitzah. Tar. Tar of the shoven. So until the point that it had a shear, it is tar. It's from now on we count it as a full kabeitzah. So what do you see? That we go kimoyes, not likemoyes. We don't go about what was back in the day. What is it right now? Right now it's kabeitzah, we view it as tameh. Says the Gemara that's not a good raya. Midrabonon. I'm going to tell you it's only midrabonon. I thought about that answer. You say how you going to explain me safeh? It says people so if we stop right here, we know the question. We know people is a deraisa. So how does this derabonon work in a deraisa? The Gemara is going to answer there is people derabonon. There's a concept in people that's derabonon. That's how it works. It's fitted. So what's the what's the question? That if you have a kazeias and then whatever whatever the shear of people is, if it blew up to kazeias, you're over on people, you get kores. If not, if it shrunk, you don't get kores. Benoiser. I don't think people I can understand why a guy gets kores. I don't think it's only derabonon. People derabonon. Do we have a concept of derabonon? So Moses says yes. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the same people. We have the I think that's we're talking about a derabonon here. So when there's no shear, they didn't they didn't they didn't enact their mashmelon. Tashma. Besides the kazeias with some parts of the kazeias. You have the same case, yeah. We have a older older meat. It was a kazayis and eventually it shrunk a little bit and now it's less than a shear. So, what's the halakha? Tamei l'shavar, when it had the shear, so everything is tamei, it was tamei then. V'tar mikano ul'haba, but from here on out it's not. What do we see? K'mo d'hu k'mo d'hu k'mo d'hu. K'mo d'hu we go with what we have right now. Right now it's less than a shear, it's not tamei. Nu, so what do we do? Omer Rava, so he says nu shat, gevaldik. Kol d'mikare l'havei, v'ha'ashta Whatever was and today it isn't, halaz bei. If right now there's no shear, then there's no shear, it's not mitamei even mid'oraita, nothing. Kol d'mikare l'havei, but if yesterday was a half a kazayis and it blew up, d'mikare l'havei, v'ha'ashta havei, then it's mid'oraita, Rava gozer that it should be mitamei. Now listen to this, this is gishmak, daf nun dalin amud bet. Keifli gi. Listen to this case. K'gan ohel b'she'ar v'tzomek v'chazer v'tofach. With these three stages, it was a full kazayis, it shrunk to half a kazayis and became a full kazayis. Like Rebbi said yesterday, a moshel, like you have a k'li that's tamei and you take a hammer and you break it, so it loses its tumah. Now you put it back together, you glue it back together. Well, well, l'chora, the tumah does not come back. And that's what that That's the question. Did you push off the tumah that to the point that when it came back to the right to the real size, it's too late, the tumah was b'kayan and it went away. Or not? In other words, is there dichui? Do you push off tumah? U'Mar Savora yesh dichui b'sura, U'Mar Savora ein dichui b'sura. Shmuel holds, once it's pushed off, so even though it it got back to the original size, it's nothing. U'Mar U'Mar Savora Rava holds ein dichui b'sura, no, there's no such thing. U'Megillah amud bet. Does anybody hold that it's pushed off? But now we have a commission. You have something that's food that's that's tummy. You put in the sun and then it's not too drunk. So now I have less than a kibitzer. But he says I'm amazed. You have the flesh of a dead person that's with time out with olive is worth and now it's less than an olive. Shreds each item with its sheer. The lentil size of shreds because I speak all because I snow so here it says over here before it's people that are size. Because I say love to hire him it be since it lost its volume. And now the third stage is that you got it back to the original share cuz you put it into water. Introduce water to the it blew up. To mayhem. What do what do you mean to mayhem? I thought this is big lights gone. It's gone forever. No. The total comes back. This would be a contradiction. To small who says You see over here no deal. So we have here dates. And we have You see this guy? Used to be this size. You have a nice measure. And this is what happened. After you left it out for a little bit, yeah? This is a very small compared to this. This is a mix time it's literally half the size. I call bottom. Here's the here's the problem. Here's the You have a box of these giant ones. You have 10 of these. In the box. If we go by the count, one of these is good ma'aser. When you need to take 10% ma'aser, it's good for 10 of these giant ones. Why? Obviously, we go by what? Lick your mice. What it used to be. That's it. That's the whole raya. Tarmin tainim al agrigos b'minyan. Oh, so it's the opposite. The opposite. You have a whole box of these. We're going to We're going to have that case also. First case is you have a box of 10 of 10 of these bad guys. And I It came out nice, bad guys, but I meant they're bad cuz they're atomic. Tarmin tainim al agrigos b'minyan. If you have 10 small guys, how much ma'aser do you take off? 10%? You should take one one small guy for 10 small guys. What did he do? He took one giant guy. What does that teach us? That we go with what it used to be because these small guys used to be large. Because otherwise, we have a very big problem. You cannot give more ma'aser than necessary. Right now, it's not fair. You're giving one of these for 10 of these. That's actually 20% cuz these are double. This is double this. How can you give one of these for 10 of these? That's not 10%. It's not a fair 10%. Unless we go of what it used to be. These used to be just as large as this. So, it's perfect. But if we're going with what it is today, it's halachically problematic to give more ma'aser. Why is it halachically problematic? Because part of it is ma'aser. Half of this guy is ma'aser. Half. But the other half is not ma'aser. The other half is pebble that you never took ma'aser on it. Part of this never Nobody took ma'aser on this. You're using this to make ma'aser, but you never took ma'aser on it. Now, the part that's ma'aser, you don't need to take ma'aser of it. But the part that's not ma'aser, I don't even know where it is. It's somewhere in this in this uh date. 50% of it And you're going to start doing that? You already gave it to the No, but you got it. I don't mind. If you don't, then you just gave it to the you gave it to the client, you gave it to the levy. You gave it to the levy already. Okay? You could do it You could do also do it right. You could do it half. It's like you already thought about it. You could do it. Anyway, zug die Gemara. Let's just see this quickly cuz we have 5 minutes left. Less. If you go, "Oh, but these little guys used to be large, so it's perfect. I took one large one for 10 small ones, but they used to be 10 large ones." It's givaldik. But if you're going with what it is today right now, how can you take ma'aser from large one one large one on 10 small ones? >> [snorts] >> Or nine small ones, whatever this is you want to call it. However, however, you might be ma'aser. You gave too much ma'aser. It's not It says the Mishnah ma'aser as in two kinds. It works in terms of whatever's left in the box. But this actual date is bad. So, what do we do? Elemai, so what do you want us to tell me? Okay, so we're going to go So, obviously we go with likemoi's. We take ma'aser on what it used to be, and these little guys were very large one day. Same as safa, then it doesn't work in the opposite. So, I'll tell you then. Now, if I'm going to separate from the small on the large, the opposite. Before it was large on the small, but I'm going to separate one small one on 10 large ones, you have to do You have to do it based on volume. Let's call it even weight. 10% of the weight. So, I don't care how small and how large it is. Let's if I have 10 oz of dates, you have to take 10% of the volume, not of the amount. Now, the question is why? Don't we go on what it used to be? Now, this used to be large. It used to be large, so why can't I just take one of these and and nine of the other ones? If I say if it goes with if it goes with what I have today, so today it's you can't take from a small one and a large one. So, you have to go by weight, by volume. Shapira, it works. But you you told me that you already established it goes with what it used to be. That's problematic. My master, so now you're giving too much. These little ones are actually big ones and now you gave too much ma'aser. You know what? We're not even talking about ma'aser. You said we're talking about Rashi explained we're talking about ma'aser. It says terumah. So, when it comes to terumah, terumah gedolah, there's no shear. You can give as much as you want. You can give as little as you want. We're just telling you how to do it in the in the the proper way. If it's small, you should do it by weight. If you're taking the large one, do it by numbers. But that's how you give a lot. If you're talking about terumah, it's a problem. You have This is a maktsua. We had a maktsua as a cleat, but let's say a maktsua is like a a certain vessel that that you hold the the figs. So, he used to take 10 and put it in a in a basket. The question is What did it Where did you get the number 10 from? 10. 10 is not a number of terumah. If you tell me terumah, terumah is as much as you want. So, we know 2% for four maybe. What's 10? Nobody gives 10% truma. So, it doesn't work. That's why I showed you the whole video. But, truma is ma'aser skin we're talking about 10% of what the Levi gets. The Levi gets 10%. Then the Levi removes 10% of what he got. He gives one apple out of the 10 back to the cohen. Now, on that you can give as much as you want. That's not like regular ma'aser where you have to be careful in the amount. Over here, you can give more. Because he goes according to the laws of a laws of the sign of a laws of the going over the truma we're talking about two different trumas. I can truma of truma of ma'aser. There's a truma that you give to the cohen, the 1% the 2%, and then there's a truma truma of ma'aser that the Levi gives to the cohen, which is 10%. That's all in that one possible. And now I can make a shame should truma need tell us by me the ma'aser. Truma a person walks up there's no share. So, I can just grab as much as I want. Without a minute without measuring with a ma'aser in my head. Truma of ma'aser need tell us by me the ma'aser. Now, so too truma of ma'aser. The 10% that the Levi gives to the cohen. And now this is what we're looking for. Ma'aser truma by yaffa. Just like truma you can give as much as you want. You can do you should be large and give him nicely. Ma'aser truma of ma'aser by yaffa. So too the the the Levi is allowed to permit it to give ma'aser from his ma'aser truma of ma'aser with a large eye. Rabbi side. Have a wonderful day. Good shabbos. Merit the mitzvah of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a share today. Mdy.sponsor.com or [music] [email protected].