CHAZARAH - Menachos Daf 106 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> Good morning you rab boys AH AH AH DO THE shmas E me we're all sitting with a small high We're holding on the top of the kuf vov omer alef three lines down vaha So what's going on here? We learned that if somebody says he's going to donate a mincha could be one of these five minchas we're not exactly sure which one he meant so he brings them all It could be it could be that he meant a mixture the gomorrah says it can't go according to shimon then the gomorrah says it does go according to shimon shimon is the one that says it could actually be a mixture of chalas and rekikin so if that's the case it can't be reb shimon the gomorrah says yeah it could be reb shimon could be you make a tnai you say I don't know exactly how many of each it could be uh maybe I give five chalas five rekikin whatever it is whatever my chive is whatever my obligation is that's what I'm giving the rest is going to be in a nedava uh uh a gift to hakadosh baruchu so the gomorrah says but how do you do kmitsa the gomorrah went into that now the gomorrah says but wait a minute with every mincha you have to bring oil what do you do with the leftover oil and if you don't know what to do with the leftover oil you can't bring this mincha at all what's the problem [clears throat] the metza chalas and metza rekikin omer if in fact he did mean half and half the chalas and rekikin moisa ashem matzila chalas then the halacha would be take the leftover oil whatever's leftover put it into the chala side not to the rekikin to the chala side e kulu rekikin omer and if he said now the problem is if he said if it's all chala if it's half and half put the rest the leftover oil put it into the chala e kulu rekikin omer but if he said I'm bringing only rekikin moisa ashem and necha l'koyain we have a problem here what do you do do you give the leftover to the kainim or do you pour it into the batch you can't just make something up here you can't just give it to the kainim if you have to pour it into the batch you can't pour it into the batch you have to give it to the kainim says the gomorrah have a eitza it goes like reb shimon reb shimon ben yehuda also rashei teivos rashbi deciding reb shimon ben yehuda omer mishum reb shimon if it goes like him we have a good eitza what do you do moish chan kamin key this is also like we go coming back what's kamin key so you had a major machlokes a different sheet not a machlokes rashi over here says it's like a tes rashi in hoyer says a ches rashi in shmos says a chof rashi in krisis says it's a ex the ramban says a ex in chumash it's a gimel dor says it's a v b'kitzur if you go with most of the shitas it's more like a chof upside down sideways tes is just missing the little people say he really meant a chof just it's like a little you know a tes has a little piece on top like that top right corner okay the point is that you write some sort of a letter on the chala u'moisa ashem and necha l'koyainim so this this idea if we hold like reb shimon ben yehuda no matter what even if it's the chalas it goes to the kainim even if it's the the uh kikin it goes to the kainim so at the end of the day we know what to do with the oil that's not a problem omer reb chanina reb ashi so think about it these are the five minchas that when a person says stam he doesn't explain what he says I want to bring a mincha it could be one of these now the question is isn't there other aren't there other minchas one of the [snorts] one of the minchas that we spoke about yesterday is called minchas nesachim minchas nesachim is a mincha that comes together it's a little confusing so towards the end of the maseches let's let's just figure it out let's just discuss it nesachim comes with every single shlamim and every single oil every time you bring a carbon oil or a carbon shlamim you must bring a minchas nesachim it includes wine it includes oil it includes flour depending on the size of the animal so let's say if we're going to go with the smallest animal a sheep so you have you have to bring three log of wine three log of oil and one one isaron of uh flour maybe that's what the guy meant when the by the way this is important you could bring in a nesachim all by itself without an animal I could say oh I want to bring the nesachim that I typically bring with the with the bull I want to bring the which would which requires more wine I want to bring the basic one the one that goes with the sheep so that would be three log of each three log of yayin three log shemen revias that's called a revias reisa hin soilus omer reb chanina reb ashi vo iku nesachim kuka d'minchas nesachim perhaps this is maybe when he said a mincha he didn't mean the five minchas that we keep on talking about maybe he's talking about the mincha of nesachim which you could bring on its own without an animal domer rabba as we learned the other day misnadev other minchas nesachim b'chol yayin a person it's not a problem to give an nedava to the ribono shel oilam every single day of your life so now the gomorrah in order to answer the question the gomorrah is going to basically teach us the difference the five differences that there are between a a mincha soilus machvas the typical five minchas to the nesachim there are five differences and when you know those five differences the gomorrah is saying the gomorrah is arguing that a person is not going to make a mistake between a mincha that has this difference and that but it teaches us the differences siman what are the differences yachid b'glal l'vina b'laig mikamtza that what number one buba glal yachid buba glal tivlum istaklei we learned that these five minchas you can't bring even a b'shutfus you can't even have a single partner so certainly it can't be from the whole community whereas nesachim could be from the whole community a person is not going to make a mistake he's not going to say oh I don't remember is it a nesachim that I that I I can't even have a partner or a nesachim that I could do with everybody he won't make such a mistake another one kikum istaklei buba glal atzmo he doesn't confuse a mincha that comes all by itself like the five minchas buba glal zevel um istaklei there's a mincha that can come together with an animal he'll remember quite well that he donated a mincha that usually goes with with with sheep with with bulls it doesn't go by itself kikum istaklei another one tuna l'vina nesachim does not require l'vina so he's not going to make that mistake in his mind he knows whether it has l'vina or not shainu tuna l'vina l'mistaklei basically the gomorrah is just telling us in a in a side way all the nafka minas a list of five nafka minas kikum istaklei buba loy how many when you have a five one of these five minchas how much oil is required one log and the minimum of a nesachim is how many three log a revias hin kikum istaklei buba log buba shlosha login l'mistaklei I cannot this I can hear in his mind he knows exactly he knows if he's going to have to shlep a huge amount of oil to the mizbeach or just one little bottle kikum istaklei tuna kmitsa shainu tuna kmitsa loy ko mistaklei minchas nesachim does not require a kmitsa why not think about it for a second why does minchas nesachim not require a kmitsa anybody because it all goes on the mizbeach what why do you do a kmitsa kmitsa means you take a little bit of flour in your hand and the rest becomes shirayim and then you could eat the kain gets to eat it but if the entire thing goes on the mizbeach like a minchas nesachim everything where does the wine go on the mizbeach in the shittin the oil and the and the flour goes on the mizbeach so there's no there's no no kmitsa over there a person is not going to confuse himself between a mincha that has a kmitsa and a mincha that doesn't have a kmitsa that's why nesachim is out of the question zochti gomorrah pirashti we learned the mishna pirashti minchas sh'loshim this was wild mamash a guy he's poor like anything he doesn't have any money all he has left is a is a bag of flour in his house his wife is going to make a little you know bread for the week and he's going to bring this one bag of flour to the ribono shel oilam that the gomorrah said is nefesh mamash neshama and because he messed up he has to bring 1,830 bags of flour cuz he poshut said the wrong thing and he doesn't know pirashti minchas sh'loshim I said I'm going to bring a mincha of different sh'loshim and I don't know what I said ton rabbonon pirashti minchas sh'loshim b'nei adam maprashei yomi minchas shisha misraim divrei chachom chachom say you know what oh where where where are you I said it I said it I did I just skipped the three words b'kvas b'kli echad it's not we don't we're not gores that he's gores it over there okay ton rabbonon pirashti mincha b'kvas b'kli echad that those words okay b'kvas b'kli echad it's very important because it's it's a little bit it's n'ga to the sugya these words so maybe they put who put it in uh the bach sticks it okay that the bach says basically that the whole sugya is because rebbi holds that he said I want it in one kli if he wouldn't describe that it's in one kli then you could put it in 60 different kelim you put each kli one isaron per kli times 60 and that will get rid of all our problems cuz if he said they want to bring a three isaron mincha is three kelim if he said 60 here 60 kelim the problem is that he said I want it in one kli I want it in one kli so perhaps it's 60 in one kli perhaps it's 59 in one kli so let's do 59 of chive and one of nedava in one kli you cannot do that you cannot mix a nedava with a chive in one kli so now you're stuck now you need 60 kelim that each one has a different shear one has one the next one has two three four etc all the way up to 60 according to rebbi rebbi omer yomi minchas sh'loshim echad b'shishim shehein b'kvas b'kli echad >> I read this. I'm going to read it again. He's going to bring a mincha of 60 astray and only once. One 60 year. Why? Because whatever it is will be in the cleat. If I said 20, so 20 out of the 60 should be my mincha that I am higher. The rest, the 40 are going to be another mincha called a mincha of the double. Just >> [clears throat] >> for fun. Just to bring an another type of flower. Rebbi I mean what is Rebbi saying? You have a mincha of 60 of the flower. This is unbelievable. You bring a cleat that has one you bring another cleat with two another cleat with three five 10 20 up to 60. Total amount of 1150. How do you do the math? We're going to do it really quick. You take whatever number it is you do 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5. So over here we have up to 60. You add a one so 61. You divide it in two it's 30. You take that division whatever number you divide it 30 30 times the number that you have. 30 times 60 equals 1800 but there's a one so it's 1830. 1830. What if I don't even know which one of these five it is? Then I have to do everything times five. So according to you bring 60 in one bowl times five. So it's five times 60. How much is that? 300. According to Rebbi that it's 1830 but it could be any one of these. 1830 times five is how much? So now you have to bring five minchas each mincha 60 equals 300. Now I have to do five times 1830. >> [snorts] >> Hold on a second. A person who says a person who brings a mincha it's a poor person usually. He [clears throat] brings one thing. Over here he's going to have to bring 9000 150 which is a tremendous amount of money. It's even it's 15 tons of flour. It's a lot. Okay. So now we have five ways to explain this five ways. Again what's the like this? If a person doesn't know what he what he donated to the base of the dash and it could be one through 60. One two 60 flower. So according to just bring 60. Bring the highest number. And you make a a condition you make a you say Rebbi says you can't just bring 60 and say oh I'm making a condition that if I if I meant 50 so 50 out of it is and 10 of it is it doesn't work. And we're going to see why it doesn't work. There's five reasons why according to Rebbi that doesn't work. Are you allowed to bring into the mundane things? Why? Because if you have a bowl you have a bowl of flour and half of it is my mincha what's the other half? Cannot be in a double. Why? Cuz I cannot mix in the same bowl those two things. Hold on a second. You can't mix in those two things. You can't mix in the can't mix into the bowl two different flowers. Half of it is my carbon. Half of it is just mundane. But you cannot bring mundane into the base of you cannot bring into the flower. No it doesn't. It never does. It can't because No no no. Rebbi says you can't. You can't make it why? Because you cannot bring you cannot first of all you can't mix olive But if you change it into a double and I have a double one cleat you can't do that. You can't have a one cleat. They can't touch each other. They can't They can't be mixed with each other. Sorry. But but the double and cannot mix. They cannot mix two flowers. You could mix flour with the carbon but the problem is that now you brought flour apples into the you're not going to take the flour and change it into into a carbon. It's not going to change. It is what it is but it's flour. And it's in the so now you have simple apples simple flour in the flower. Rebbi saw not permitted to bring to the you're not the question are you allowed to bring into the yes or no? Rebbi said no. So so there's another flower here. Number one is what shall I bring no everybody says says Rebbi or Rebbi everybody agrees you're not allowed to bring to the flower. Another simple can you mix in that same bowl the with the in the same bowl? So that solves all the problem I can mix the two different one bowl. So maximum all you have to bring is 60. Within the 60 I'm going to have part of it is going to be I don't know how many. I make it whatever it is you know how many? It's 18 18. The rest is going to be another since it's awesome to mix the so may I have to bring one of every type up to 60. 1830. You need to to have two flowers. So the the comments of other comments. Okay here we go. This is the flower. This is the my printer I I apologize the printer is not working so smart. Here we go. Oh we're going to make a mincha. No we're not going to make a mincha. We're going to do a flower. This is 60 flower. Let's pretend. Put it over here. 60 so I go like this. Stick my hand in. Oh my gosh this is awesome. I flip my hand over. And this is number one. Number one I'm going to put into this bowl right over here. Now it's possible that not everything in this bowl is is a flower. Maybe I didn't promise to bring 60. Maybe I promised to bring 30. So I have to take another flower. Another one for the rest of it which is number two in this bowl which is in the double so I stick my hand again. And do it like this. Turn over I got to make sure I don't have too much on this side with my pinky like this. Here this is my this is my flower. Boom. Dump it in there. Great. So now I have a flower over here and another flower over here. Next. Says the flower. When I took my out the very first time I went like this and I put it in here. In this bowl I have a little bit of my flower. Cuz this whole thing is a little bit a little bit in my there's a little part of it that is problem. Why? Because my needs to be 100% perfect. I can't have too much and I can't have too little. A big part of it is not even a it's not even a flower. Says the flower. The flower that's kind. This guy that donated the 60 whatever he donated he doesn't say what is what. He says you know what? Let the decide. When the takes it out whatever he takes it out The first whatever he takes out first that should go towards because you don't know which part of the flower is which part is in the double. It's only decided later. Okay so the decides that the first that he took is flower. So that gets rid of that problem. And the second one should be the double. Back to ask the big problem. How do you make how do you put it on the flower? So check this out. Let's say I take this this bowl and I put this on the flower. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. How could I go ahead and put this one on the I cannot put the second bowl on the the flower bowl. Why? Perhaps all 60 in this guy were all what I promised to bring originally and then what? So now it comes out that this 60 is missing how much? This much. One that I put in here as a double is missing of the 60. You cannot bring you cannot bring this guy guy onto the if some of this is missing. If an animal comes and eats a little bit out of here the is missing this is leftover. An animal comes and eats I cannot put this on the flower. Over here it's not an animal you took this this plastic bowl and put a in here. You're like an animal. You took some of the put it over here. You have no right to do that. I can't I don't know what to do. Now I can't put this on the back. Am I you put the on first. Put this on first. That's also a problem. So what do you do? So put the this guy on first. Put this guy on first. So the no, then it'll be a problem. How do you put this on the I need to put this on the because perhaps there's in the in this bowl, the big bowl. And the the needs a and the I have to put it on the but I can't put this on the Why? Again, we're going with the assumption that perhaps worst case scenario all of the 60 in this silver thing is all part of my carbon. And therefore what? The and I already put this on the I put this bowl on the back. Now you it's also it's is it the right to put anything else on the back? Let's say I want to be a big guy. I put this on the and then 10 minutes later I go into my bowl. I take another put it on the so over is it the right so? I am giving a more. No. It says in the book. Once there was a fire, once the went on to the fire, anything in addition to that is this is the right about the Perhaps what's in this plastic bowl, the part is not the part. Perhaps it's just part of the the carbon, the carbon. And now I'm sacrificing, I'm being a second time when I'm not allowed to You're only allowed to be once, not twice. That's it. Okay. So says the book. The You know what you do? This part you put on the and you say, "If there is a part in this in the thing, this should be my part." But if not, I'm turning this into wood. I'm allowed to turn this into firewood. I need a bird. The needs fire, needs fuel. This is fuel. So just like we had it in that we had in this that what? You can take You take this flower right over here, this flower and you say either it's a It's a condition. Either it's a but if it's not, let it be wood. You're allowed to put it up on the You can't put it as a carbon. You can put it as wood. I say maybe the is different. Not not if you're allowed to be my a with a You're not Everybody holds you're allowed to. So if you're allowed to, so what's the problem? According to just bring 60 and say half of it is in the half of it is not. This what we just said. The part that's in the How do I put it on the If I put it on the it's a problem. I'm I'm I'm I'm being a verb on the side that it's not in the I'm being something from the original twice after there was already was already on the once. You can't do a second It's the part. So they argue whether you can do this trick of switching it into wood or not. The Okay. So what are you telling me that according to you're allowed to mix the into one bowl? And doesn't hold the other You can't make it into wood. If you're allowed You're permitted to mix the two, so look what I can do. This bowl, I put one in this bowl. This bowl, I have 60. And then I touch them on the top like this. The flowers touch. What did I gain? I'm going to take the from over here. One I'm going to take one from here. I save all issues. What was the problem? That I took two from here and the second I'm going to put on the I didn't take a second one from here. The second one was from a separate bowl. Just what? This second bowl is going to take care of all the in this bowl. How? By touching. You're allowed to do a verb. You're allowed to mix. So I'm going to touch here. Touches. This is the for all the in here. This is the for all the in here. But I'm allowed to bring this on the because this is not connected to this at all. It's not the second from here. It's its own original part. Huh? Yeah? No, no, but it's different bowls, different bowls. No, they they touch. The they touch. It's not They're not It's in a separate It didn't go bowls. It didn't change bowls. Then it's not 61 in here. It's one in here, 60 in here and they just touch. It's the touching helps to to that it could be the from here on there. There's my in the The comments. No. [snorts] Where? That That I went back. I went back. Oh. So why did not say this? It's a great He didn't say it because he holds you can't mix. Another shot. Another Again, let's go back. The say. We have a This is for bird. If a person got confused and he made a net there he's going to bring a and he has no clue what he said, how many It could be one could be up to 60. So says a wild idea. He has to bring 60 and each one has a different amount. One, two, three. A total of 1830. Why? Why is 60 not enough? Just bring 60 and say, "If I said 60, great. But if I said less than 60, so whatever I said is the and all the rest in that should be in the bowl." So another because the is in the book. This is not. I feel We have a fundamental how much oil is necessary for 60 in the Either 60 or one part. And the that answers the question. What's the answer? Because if in this in this bowl right over here there's a and the So according to one man you'd need two because it's two separate parts. According to one man you need one. We don't know. It's either one or two The say. That's the How much oil to bring? Do you bring one or two? And since I don't know, you can't bring the You have to do it all. You have to go all the way to 1830. If it's a large of 60, all you need is one part. So you either need one or two. Show man. The other man say. The According to in the 60 bowl, you need 60 of oil. And holds no, you only need one for 60. But since this is possible that's two different you need two. But if What if it's only one So you need one. So now I'm confused. I don't know if I should bring one or two. I don't know if it's one All it needs is one. It's or it's two. This one I relate to the most. This is like easy. What's the say? Super easy. Everybody's not going to No one here is going to understand it. The is if a person says I want to bring one of a Can Can I bring 60? Stop. Why not? I want to be large. I said I'm going to bring one bag of flour. I'm going to bring 60. says you're not allowed to do that. That's not your You is one. Stick to your part. The The I can't bring a 60 bowl. So for every that I that that it's possible I have to make every single possibility. 60 possibilities. That's it. Because of the say. He didn't make it up because they argue about the same exact thing by a by an animal. Like you bought a The This is exactly the same two the and This is not. The He donated. He said he's going to bring a small bowl, a small one. A 1000 pounder. He got a brother 2000 pounder. You got it. You can't bring larger than you than than you were neither. So what's the difference between a and a bowl? At the end of the day it doesn't matter. There's one for 60 There's one or one. The what goes on the is identical in size. I will also buy animals the They that we bring on to the He's supposed to bring the the the the the the the skirt steak, all these things as large as the animal is, that's how much that's how comparatively speaking they more are going to be larger. 2000 pound animals they more are going to be double. That's why you change your mind. You said you're going to bring 100 lb of more than this back and you brought 200 lb. I don't know what the Rebbi maybe agreed that case that you can't do that. Maybe Rebbi only said it by an animal because you're literally bringing more onto the mizbeach. Al bahal, but when it comes to a mincha, maybe maybe he admits Rebbi Shimon. Tzircha. Should we Should we do the Mishnah? We can do the Mishnah. This is the only time in Shas by side that there's a siman before a Mishnah. I looked it up this morning. In the Mishnah, there's obviously there's no siman. The siman is an Amora'im kind of thing or maybe Rebbi Shimon I don't know. Siman eitzim zov yayin oil shar These are all part of a lot of it is for the next Mishnah. This Mishnah says if a person says I want to bring wood to the mizbeach, he has to bring at least two pieces that have to do with the mizbeach. Two pieces. The size of the mizbeach. You know, the size that you bring in the morning. Maybe he says I'm going to bring frankincense. >> [snorts] >> If a person donates it means one to meet the like this. Says the Mishnah there are in fact five different when it comes to the Mishnah. I know a lot of a person says I'm accepting upon myself but you have to have limits. He shouldn't give less than one to meet the. I'm going to add the mincha and any mincha the five minchas that we saw the soil is machvas. It should have one to meet the of one. If you take this of you mock it in your house, chayev. Same thing it would be if you take this and put it on the mizbeach for for not the right reason. What's the two by side? Take a look at this to remind all of them. I said to myself that before we learned we weren't all very familiar with the one. And the if you said to somebody ask a Shiva guy what's the Mishnah what's the Mishnah. It's the two spoons and in each spoon there's one worth of one. >> [snorts] >> I realized a person says I'm going to donate gold it shouldn't be less than the silver. If he says silver it shouldn't be less than the minimum small coin of silver. If he says silver it should be one silver. Do not bring the smallest coin of copper that's not proper. If copper If you ask me if a person says I don't know what I specified. Maybe this is a beautiful Keep on giving. And then when it comes to 100,000, 200,000, 500,000 that can't be that much. Have a wonderful day. >> [music] >> Merit the of spreading Torah throughout the world. 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