CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 31 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> We need to see me to do this more than once. Look at the holy tomorrow we're holding seven lines down from the top. Says the mission how you shake it the hit this. If a person was shaking two animals or one animal, let's say one animal knocks off the head. So what it says depends how long the knife was. We learned in the mission that the knife was like this. If it's double the size of the neck then it's okay. So I'm going to prove that it means double size of the neck. What the mission means is the size of the neck plus I I don't know exactly what he means. And the is going to say what what is the size of me? Does it mean a little bit? You buy a little. What is the size of the size of the neck like in this picture? Does it mean two widths of a neck? They have a little who trades a volume. Totally have two. I don't know what the size of the size of the mashu or means take a look at this slide how it happens. Boom, it just means a little bit more than the knife. Let's go to the next case. Over there it's a little bit more unfortunate. It says shake it the hit this they rush in the If a person was shaking two animals at the same time and knocked off both of their heads. And yes, the size of the size of the head kosher. If the knife has one width of a neck, it's kosher. Ask the the obvious question. How's it possible that if you're shaking one animal, you need a little bit more than a neck? And if you're shaking two animals, all you need is one neck? It's impossible. So So does one neck mean? One neck means one neck more than what you're shocheting. So if you have two animals, you need one neck in addition to the two necks of the the width of the animal. A total of how many necks? Three. Two necks of the animal, one extra neck width. That's the That's how long your knife has to be. E lay mo, and that's the end of the sugia. E lay mo lay zaver besuloi, if it means when you're shocheting two animals, all you need is a knife that's as wide as one neck. It's impossible. Has to be beheima achas. Be mo lay zaver besuloi. If you're shocheting one animal, as I said, you need one neck plus a little bit more. Bishay beheima achas besuloi. So when you're shocheting two animals, all you need is one neck? So when the mishna says one neck, it means whatever width. If you're shocheting 16 animals, you need a knife that's 16 animals wide plus one neck. Elu shnei zaver besuloi. It means one neck in addition to the two that you're shocheting. Shma minah. So therefore also, be mo lay zaver besuloi. When Reb Zera says on one animal, it means not this picture right over here, but this picture over here. Shma minah. >> [snorts] >> End of the sugia. Omer Reb Ashi. Bimei R' Meir ben Shimon ben Levi. Says the Gemara, when do you need a knife that's this long, like in this picture? You need a knife like this when it's one motion. You're only going forward, you're only going backward. So to make sure that you did a good shchita, you need a knife that has an extra width to it. But says the mishna, if you're going to go back and forth, you can even use a small razor blade. This big. And if it takes you 20 times back and forth, back and forth until you shochet, okay. In hilchos shchita, that's okay. In hilchos tza'ar ba'alei chayim, you might be a little bit of a rasha, but that's what it is. Omer Reb Ashi, bishay meleches layla. It's talking specifically This is according to the school and I drew a completely different picture. But the school and argue with me so I'm going to go with the school. I think maybe David knows better than I do. means a decorative piece that comes out of a knife and Let's say let's say this is just for argument's sake. This is the the this part is a razor. So he's going like this. He's going This is the neck of the animal. So he's going back and forth back and forth. Like that. Now the problem is that has these little horns that come out decorative horns. And it might slip and it might poke the animal. Not good. Another question. What if I use a needle? Obviously I'm going to poke the animal with the needle a bunch of times and make small holes. What is that? What is that? It's like a razor. I'm pushing downwards. You need a cut with a nail with with the So So he's going to take this this is like the worst of the worst. I don't even know the scissors of it. You take a needle and you start going back and forth with it. You start scraping the surface until you get in and then once you get in then you cut I mean this is what you have. You're on an island and you have a needle. You pack yourself a needle and some thread and you don't have a knife. a buzzer. No no no no good. Yeah you're going back and forth but one of those back and forth you're going to poke the guy and once you poke him that's you're over. No good. >> He says it's a killer. >> Korea >> Like ripping tearing. Okay you're ripping. Fine better. You're ripping. >> [clears throat] >> Says the master So you have a tanner's needle. What was this for? I I don't remember. I I Okay. Oh, here. Over here, maybe you might rip. Okay. >> That's the knife the other way that you have it. >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> So, this guy right over here, you don't really see. It's not a hundred. It's not a It could have been a better picture. But, the point is that the top part of the needle is a little flatter than a regular needle. A, B, the tip The tip is flat. B, the sides are very, very sharp. This is what the the people that use that that work with leather, they use such a needle. "Am ar lei tanina, I don't understand the problem." "Afilu kol shuhu." If you look in the Mishna on Amud Bais, I should have had it on the screen. It says, "Avel im choilach ve haive the last words in the Mishna." If you're doing a back and forward motion like a knife, "Afilu kol shuhu." Even a knife that's the smallest of the small. And then the Mishna continues, "Afilu be izmel chera." Even a a a razor blade. So, in all, a razor blade, whatever you want to call it. So, says the Gamara, "What does kol shuhu mean?" It's telling us a type of a type of kli, a type of a cutting instrument. "Mai lav macht der Dusche fei mai?" A mashu would chorer mean the smallest knife that I know of, which is a a needle that they work with leather. "Lei izmel." No, it's referring to a razor blade. "Izmel be heidik tanina." But, that's the next words, "Afilu be izmel." So, what does kol shuhu mean? It can't mean the same thing. Says the Gamara, "It does mean the same thing." "Perush gom mefarish, mai kol shuhu?" The Mishna is saying, you can use a knife that's kol shuhu, even a very, very small knife. But, what's the smallest of the small? "Izmel." That's to be the width of a a razor blade. "Ach aname mistabra." And it makes a lot of sense logically. "Di salka daiteich macht der Dusche fei mai." If you tell me something that's 1 mm wide is kosher, it wouldn't make sense for me to say 1 mm is kosher and also you should know a 20 mm mm a razor blade is also kosher. Of course a razor blade is kosher. So you might know no no no no on that if that's your whole right or that's not a good right or why? Don't forget about this guy. This one we have already established is possible. So maybe all razor blades in the world should be possible because it is they used to they used to have these decorative pieces to the razor blades and they could be dangerous for so maybe I should say all maybe a needle is good but a razor blade is not good because some razor blades have horns. I called it. Now I'm going to ask you a trick question. Don't look in the mission. If you do you're going to make a little bit of a mistake. What if I have a knife on a table? This knife is sitting on the edge. And there's vibrations going on like you know a lot of houses have vibration and I'm just waiting there for it to fall. And I know that when it falls it's going to fall so perfectly on my chicken's head which I tied down right below the table. It's going to cut my chicken. I want it to happen. Is that a good or not a good one? I'm watching it. I'm looking at the knife. He says it's good. He says no good. Why? It's good Harry. Why is it good? Oh, so maybe I can cuz you threw it. What? That's something else. No oh oh Now you're talking about something the opposite. It it your throw with zero kavana. Over here I have full kavana, zero ko'ah. It's a different case, completely different case. So it says the Mishnah nafla sakan, nafla it fell sakan bishochatah Over here it did not have any ko'ah of a person, no ko'ah gavra. It didn't come from the power of a human, it just fell. Af pisey shochatah kidarkah psulah, even though it made a beautiful slice in the neck, cut both of the simanim, the kon and the veshet, psulah, it's not a good shechitah. Shenemar bizovachtah va'achaltah. You have to shecht and then you eat. Ta'am id nafla That's because it fell. Ho hi pila hu she'eira, what does it pila mean? It pila would mean he didn't throw it. You let go of it. So this is my knife I let go of it. But that leaving go, me opening up my fingers, that is a ko'ah gavra. I used human force and that human force of me releasing it let it go down and and cut. But here's the point, the big point is ve'af al gab dilo mechaven, that's today's sugia. The problem is over here that he didn't intend to shecht. When you you you lo choira Well, from here it's mashma that you don't have to have intent when you shecht. As long as it was a human power that came from from your power you you threw it, whatever it is, even if you didn't have kavana to shecht, it's a good shechitah. Mantana dilo be'ina kavana leshchitah Who is this tana that says that you don't have to have any intent? Omar [clears throat] Rabbah Rebbi Nossoni. This is the famous Rebbi Nosson which we had 20 days ago. The Tanna Yishai Zera that when we were in Morocco we had him. So that was 20 days we were in Morocco 20 days ago. That's a long The 20 Shai Zera the Min Khavraya. Rashi says you can read his name two ways. You can read his name the 20 Shai his name is Shai. The ear of the Min Khavraya he's the youngest of the whole Khavura or maybe his name is the 20 Shai Zera. That's that was his name. The Min Khavraya he's part of a Khavura. So he wasn't the youngest in the group. His name is the young Shai the young it wasn't the youngest in the group. He might have been the oldest of the group. Zora talking a lot of the Khavura. He threw a knife cuz he wanted to get it into the wall of the wall of the Shai the darko. And it went and it stuck in an animal by mistake. Rebbi Nasan Mashir. Rebbi Nasan says you don't have to have intent for Shita. You do not have to have Kavana by Shita. But I'm poison. I'm saying you have to have intent by Shita. We don't have a lot of a lot of good Nasan. And Rava continues to say you should not like Rebbi Nasan that what that by Shita you don't need to have intent to Shita. You have to have intent to throw to move the knife. That's it. Ask the Gemara. Rava Rebbi Nasan what does Rava have to say that the like Rebbi Nasan? He already said it before where on the base the first mission of you see Rebbi we're doing the Shofar for you. Few we did the few days we went to that so yeah. Now we're doing that base. That what it says that if Shita of a Katan if a Shita of a Katan do a Shita no good but if you're standing there it's not Shita of a Katan do the Shita of a Katan. Rebbi Nasan you have an adult watching Shita doesn't change it's a good Shita. But the Shita of a Katan don't have intent. So who says you don't have to have intent? Rava Rebbi Rebbi Nasan the same Rava that says it's the same rubber nothing. This is you don't have the intent. So why does he repeat this the same alacha 30 days later? Over here at least the shita is he had a cut. He doesn't know anything about but he had he wanted to make he wanted to make an incision in the animal. But over here that he just he dropped the knife. He didn't have a cut. Maybe it shouldn't be a good so it is a good cuz it had the power of a human being. But if I just say the case over here that he dropped the knife. Over here that he dropped the knife at least it came from a person that has over here we're talking about a maybe shouldn't be considered movement at all. You need the the power of a not just a human being. Human that does no in all these cases it's a good otherwise it's a murder. Eat more. So I'm going to tell you the end of the according to one means she had a the was a meaning she had to go she was to go to the for and she was walking on a bridge and she slipped off the bridge and fell into the water. So we have a says to this is a thing. She's 100% in other words there's no is this by mistake removes this. On the other side on the flip side of the trauma she would be also to consume trauma which is only a lesser than it's a of the same line. Get the death penalty from heaven but it's not as worse as bad as worse which also could khas v'shalom affect children, etc. Rebbi Yochanan omer, "No, both are the same. This tvilah didn't help at all. It wasn't a tvilah with kavana. She certainly didn't say a brakha, meaning she didn't show intent. She didn't want to be in the water at that point. And it doesn't help her. It's not a tvilah." Pelah, no? Gishmak. Most people are not aware of these halakhas. I don't understand what's going on here. I've only heard this what? That it removes koresh? It's a so certainly should remove the lesser issur of trumah. Omer Rebbi Nachman, "You're not going to believe this. Ba'al khulin hu." A husband is a piece of khulin. And the wife is also khulin, meaning we are not kodesh. We're not kochim. We're khulin kavana when it comes to khulin. You don't have to have any intent. But when it comes to trumah, it's different. You have to have intent. I'm telling you it's my I can better than the sugiyah. Omer Rebbi Nachman, "How do you know this? This nun." Galshe nitlah boy arba'im se'ah. Listen to this. We know you can go be tovel in the in in a in the ocean. Ocean is a great mikvah. A wave that's attached to the ocean is part of the ocean. But what about a wave that detaches itself from the ocean? Detaches. 40 se'ah water. Has to be 40 se'ah. A tsunami. Boof. Whatever, however works. There's There's an earthquake and down and grab water down and pushes water up. Doesn't matter. A whole wave for at least We're talking about a minimum of 40 se'ah cuz less than 40 se'ah is nothing to talk about. We have 40 se'ah of water flying through the air. A moment ago was great to go in the mikvah, now it's flying through the air. Once it's airborne, no. You can't You can't be toiveled in it in the air. But once it lands, you could. Now, first of all, any rainwater that that landed that's in a pit that's mayim that's what we make all mikvahs out of. That's great. But what if it's in in midair? It's flying through the air, one edge of it is touching the ground, the other is still in motion coming. It wants to rest on the ground, but it's in motion. And you put a Let's say you have a vessel you have to be toiveled a vessel that's mayim not a one that you bought in the mayim vessel. And you You're standing up, so you don't want to bend down to the ground. You grab the wave in midair. Which part of it is touching the ground and part of it is flying through the air? That's okay. That's called not keeping Russian. That's called Russian Russian. You You're grabbing the head of it when the the bottom of it is touching the ground. So says the Torah gal she nitlash. If this this wave is detached you buy a bottom so and has 40 so and all mayim toiveled. So we're going to have to see exactly what type of weir it was, but it's right now it's not it's not attached to the to the to the ocean. It could have It has the power to give to a person and to a vessels. My love of them doing with them. Since the human being and the are mentioned together, so they're similar to what? Mayim mayim of them mayim of them. You know that a clee doesn't have to have doesn't have doesn't have a brain. So a person also not as the mayim who told you there's no here. Mayim Hey mostly told you got maybe this guy is just waiting there. and waiting [snorts] for a for a wave to come so he does have kavana. Just like when a person a person tell me he could be mikhavin. So too by kaylim the the human being is mikhavin for the clay. If he's waiting there and it's a wave, so what's the khidish? Oh. Khaled Shishomim is when there's a big storm, there's a lot a lot of rain, and you sit let's say in the bottom of the street over here called I alone, and all this rain water comes down 40 saw of it, and you sit in the bottom and you you sit there in your bathing suit and you say oh, that's no good. Why is that no good? Because it's rain water that's moving. Rain water can't move Rain water has to be stationary. So in May law, I would say that moving sea water should have a zero that people would confuse the two. Commercial in other words. Inami, liza rushing on to keep in. Here we go. Check this out. So this is a detached wave of 40 saw. And this is no good for tfila. So maybe I should be goyzer this kind of thing. I've never seen one of these yet. But I should say that when you have a keeping it looks like a yamaka, like a keeper, like a a detached the what? Canopy. Okay, canopy of water. Have have thing of water. Should say that it's easier to use one that's attached to the ground because you might come to say that a detached one is okay. So, got to attach to the ground, but it's still in movement is kosher, but I would think that it's not kosher because of ottu, this this one that's that's completely detached. Kamash the leg is vinon. Ooh, I think the vinon is keeping. And how do you know that you shouldn't be toivel in a detached wave? This now I'm going to brush my mouth with my kibble. So, obviously when you read this, you see right away that the snow does not mean a mishnah because you would never ask, "How do you know this alacha when it's in the portion of mishnah?" They wouldn't the more wouldn't ask it. It would say right away this now not a woman not timber. Well, so that's why they say on the side that it's not a mishnah, it's a brisa. My bill in the rush of my bill my kibble is in the forest. That you could use a wave that's attached to the ground, but you can't use a detached wave. She might be in my other something that's that's midair you can't be toivel in. I'll hold the one of me and me and so how do we know that you don't need to have any intent when it comes to the we said before that a a husband is holding you don't need to have by by your husband. This not. So, if a fruit had water touch it and you wanted the water to touch it or as we're going to see soon if you want the water even if you don't want the water to touch you want the water >> [snorts] >> then it's mash really cable to more and if a sherrod touches the fruit now it can become tummy, but without any mash touching it and a sherrod touches the fruit the fruit is not tummy. So, here we have an interesting situation. Parish enough to come and I might. You have fruit that fell into water. What does he do? He's [clears throat] trying to save the fruit. Oh, Pasha means he ought to measure not on. So, he sticks his hand and grabs the fruit. The thing is that this person has hands that are tamei, and in order for him to eat food, he has to wash his hands. So, his intent was to grab the fruit. But, he wasn't he didn't have intent to to to be tovel his hands. What's the halacha? Yad tamei'ah yesh His hands are tamei'ah. So, if we stop right here, and this is the end of the sugiyah, what do we have a raya now? That in order to make your hands tahor, you don't have to have kavana to put them in the mikvah. His kavana was to grab fruit, not to be metamei'ah his hands. That's enough. Elliot, how are we doing so far? >> All right. >> It's very good, no? It's gishmak me'od. U'peiros einam b'chiutan. And the fruit are not susceptible to to tumah. V'im bishvil sheyitlu, but he he had kavana to take the the fruit out of the water. >> He wanted his hands >> Right, to wash his hands and take the fruit out of the and but to take the fruit out. V'im bishvil sheyitlu, he wanted to wash his hands and take the I don't know Rashi sticks in. Yad tamei'ah yesh, his hands are tamei'ah. Why? Obviously, even without kavana, his hands are tamei'ah. U'peiros b'chiutan. Now that he wanted to wash his hands, now he wants the water. And once he wants the water, that's enough to give to give the the fruit the the hechsher l'kabel tumah. A call bottom, if you go to the first line, you see that you put your hands in the water, and you don't want to be metamei'ah them, you want to grab something, that's enough to make them tahor. So too, the woman who fell into the mikvah becomes tahor without kavana. Asei Rav Elazar ben Nachman. So again, Rav says you don't have to have kavana. He says taval l'chulin v'huchzak l'chulin. This is incredible. Listen to this. Listen to this. Raboisai, you're not going to believe it. It's another unbelievable halacha today. If a person goes into the mikvah, and he says, "I'm going into the mikvah to eat ma'aser sheini." I want to be able to eat ma'aser sheini. But that's it. What's the level above ma'aser sheini? Terumah. What's the level above terumah? Kodshim. What's the level above kodshim? Parah adumah. It depends on the level. It depends on your mind. I could go into the mikvah and be completely tahor for one thing and not another thing. I'm going into the mikvah just for chulin. I didn't go into the mikvah for terumah. So, that's it. No good. I'm going into the mikvah for terumah. I didn't I didn't think about the next level above that, which is which is kodshim. So, I'm not tahor for kodshim. Incredible. It says taval l'chulin, person who's makpid to eat chulin al taharas hakodesh, she goes into the mikvah. V'huchzak l'chulin. Huchzak over here means he had kavana only for chulin. Also l'ma'aser. That kavana limits him to the lower level of tahara. He's only tahor for something low level of chulin, but not for the the the next level, which is ma'aser sheini. So, it says m'foresh huchzak again, huchzak l'chulin. That he had kavana for chulin. So, over here you see you have to have kavana for chulin. The second ago you told me that I could put my hands in a mikvah and they become tahor with that kavana. Over here it says you had to you had to have kavana for chulin. No, that's not the p'shat. Okay. Av avishuv chulin l'chulin, he is already good for chulin also l'ma'aser. If a person is is tahor for chulin, it's not good. Nothing you have to have kavana for chulin. You don't have to have kavana for chulin. But if he's already good for chulin, it's not good enough for ma'aser, which is tremendous. If If have asked you this question beforehand, most of you would have said, "No, a guy went through the mikvah and and he's he's tired for one thing. He's tired for everything. What's the difference?" No, he only removed one layer of of of of tumah. The rest is he's still tahor for those things. A safeq. Tovel aval lo yochal zach. If a person did feel a but he didn't have any kavana, kilulei tovel, it's as if he didn't go to the mikvah at all. So, you see that you have to have kavana. May love kilulei koreal tovel akla, which means it's as if he didn't go to the mikvah at all. Like kilulei tovel al ma'aser. He went to the mikvah and and and the first first level of chulin, that's automatic without any intent. What you need to have intent is adumah, those things you have to have intent. Chulin you don't have to have intent. So, may know it's kilulei you didn't go to the mikvah for level two, which is ma'aser. Level one, you don't have to have any intent. Even if you you you fall off a bridge, you're tahor. Aval tovel lechulin, it is good for chulin. Says the Gemara, "Who said that the chulin didn't come out right?" Rabba thought he's just pushing him off saying some, you know, throwing things at him to to get him off his back. Nafka doka ashgach, Rabba went and looked into it. And he found, I love this lashon, it's like and nafk doka. He didn't have da'at acheret acheret. He started going through shas and and until he until he realized, "Oh, the sanya. Tovel aval lo yochal zach, mutar lechulin v'asur lema'aser zeh meforesh. If a person went into the mikvah and he didn't have any kavana, he's still good for chulin. He's still tahor for chulin. You don't have to have kavana for chulin. And mash fits in with Rab, you don't have to have kavana. The woman doesn't have to have kavana for chulin. Mutar lechulin v'asur lema'aser. Am lehavdil Rab Yosef. Leima taveil tivul yom d'Rabbanan hu. Rebbi Rebbi Yochanan is the one that says that a woman has to have kavana. She she can't just fall off a bridge and say, "Oh, I'm tahor" to my husband. And over here you see a forest that for the lowest level of chulin to be tahor to a husband, it's okay without kavana? So, the chulin is a kasha on Rabbi Akiva. Says the Gemara, "You're right. It's a great kasha on Rabbi Akiva, but Rabbi Akiva has backup. He didn't He didn't make this up. These are other tana'im. Rabbi Eliezer ben Rabbi Akiva with Rabbi Akiva ben Rabbi Eliezer ben Rabbi Yosef." This is a previous tana. And Rabbi Akiva came to say, "You know, Rabbi Eliezer ben Rabbi Yosef is a tanna." The chovas is referring to a person's clothing that a person had that has tzaraas on the clothing. So, you have to wash the beged, and you have to wash it again. Matir l'loimay she'einis. L'chora, the word she'einis over there is extra. Makdish l'chovish sh'ni l'chovish rishona. It's to tell us just that the first time you wash it and the second time are the same. Matir l'chovish rishona l'das. You had to have human intent. Avoda b'chovish sh'ni l'lo das. Now, what's the raya over here? The [snorts] raya is that a beged What is a beged? Is a beged kodesh or chulin? Beged chulin. This is chulin. Yet, you have to have intent when I put the beged in a mikvah. I dunk my suit in the mikvah. It's a funny thing when I used to it. But, b'ezras Hashem when the Beis Hamikdash comes, if our beged becomes tamei, somebody eats a kosher bird and puts it in the back of his neck, he becomes metamei begadim avias avliya. His N'veila. Yeah, n'veila. A tamei bird. N'veila bird. His suit becomes tamei. So, what do you do with the suit that's tamei? You have to put it in the mikvah. But, over here it says that it has to have das. You have to have das. Where? Akapana, what do you see from here? It says mefuresh, you need das. Like Like the first washing, the second washing also needs das. You need das with clothing. Chulin. It's a kasha on on Rav that says you don't need das. Im al al lo bein in das kohen and if kein bein in das kohen, maybe the first the first washing had to have the the the intent of the kohen. Maybe the second one also. Tamei avos tamei makom. No, the second one doesn't have to have a kohen. M'asur l'avias The original say that you have to have intent by the original. established. There's a cloud that the original says that when a Mishnah doesn't bring down a name, there's a reason why Rebbe took out the name. It's not that there's no name. He knew the name. Let's say he knew it's Rebbe Akiva. But he wanted you to know that this is the way we pasken. So you figured if I put Rebbe Akiva's name in there, you're going to think, oh, it's only Rebbe Akiva, but everybody argues on him. So I'm telling you, no, no, no, this is an anonymous Mishnah. The halakha is like this, and that's it. That's You should know this. So it says Rebbe Akiva, the halakha is established. The halakha is always like an anonymous Mishnah. Uisna, it says in an anonymous Mishnah, our Mishnah is anonymous. Now if the sak of the shochet fell, and a knife fell and created a shchita, a perfect shchita, even though it was a perfect shchita, it's pasul. And we asked in the Gemara, Rebbe Akiva, why is it pasul? Because it fell by itself. But if he knocked it down on purpose, she'era, it's a good shchita. But I'm going to have kavana. And there's no kavana. Rebbe Meir says Rebbe Akiva says that who is this Tanna that says you don't have to have kavana? Rebbe Rebbe Nossoni. This is the Rebbe Nosson of of miracle video. He threw a knife, and it bounced off the walls, shchited an animal, kosher. But it's an anonymous Mishnah. And Rebbe Akiva holds like an anonymous Mishnah. And it says in an anonymous Mishnah, you don't have to have kavana by shchita. What's the answer? You're right. Rebbe Akiva is going to agree that you don't have to have kavana in shchita. But you have to have kavana in other stuff. Shalom Aleichem. The shchita of Rebbe Akiva says that yeah, why? It's a m'forash pasuk that by shchita you don't have to have almost m'forash. May the God of Israel be with us. There's a special pasuk that tells us the Rebbe Akiva that you have to have kavana in the Beit Hamikdash that tells me that outside of the Beit of Mikdash you don't have to have kavana. But that's dafka by shchita because the whole thing is kavana. Great. Wow, it's really 8:13. Woo. Says the Gemara of Rabanan in the way by kavana of zivcha l'chaticha b'einan. So now Rabanan make this distinction. Oh, so who's Rabanan? Rabanan that argue with Rav Nassan by the knife. They say that if you throw a knife and you didn't know that there's a cow and it's after the cow, it's no good. Why? We have a big problem. We just said that only in the base of Mikdash if you throw a knife and you don't have kavana it's not good. But outside of the base of Mikdash in Morocco, it is good. So say the says the Gemara, okay, I'll I'll answer that. The Rabanan in the way by kavana of zivcha, you're right, you don't have to have kavana to shchita, l'chaticha b'einan. But at least you have to have kavana to cut. Which Noam in the beginning of the shiur didn't like. Amar Rava, what was the k'nura of Nassan l'Rabanan? This is where Rav Nassan beat Rabanan because it makes no sense. Mix it v'chotachta, doesn't say anywhere in the Torah to cut. V'zivcha k'siv, it says shchita. So may man of shach. If you need kavana l'chaticha af ilu zivcha not in the bayis. If you need to have kavana l'chotachta, say make a distinction between cutting and shchita. If you need to have kavana for for cutting, then you have to have kavana for shachting. If you don't have to have Now, let's just finish the sugia. Eicha d'amdinan dosha n'ansa d'tavol. What does it mean that she was forced to be tovel? Ilu d'ansa chaverta v'admu la, if it means that her friend took her and forcibly threw her into the mikvah, kavana d'chaverta kavana d'maisi. Just like when you take a clay and you put it in a mikvah, you didn't ask the clay permission. So too, if you take another human being and dunk him in a mikvah, it's a good tvila. I want to ask you a question. I want to ask you a question. What if What if Rebbe Yisrael listen to this. What if Raise your >> hand if you think this is good. A person falls off a bridge. And another person, a friend is watching this and is completely composed and instead of screaming, "Oy, oy." She says, "I want that to be the same tvilah." >> Get new friends. >> Is that Is that a good feel or not? Could another person that had nothing to do with her falling just happen to be watching could she put a das into this? Now, we just said if a person takes another person physically and dunks them in the mikvah, that is good enough das. I could force somebody to go to the mikvah. But somebody who watches on the side, is that a good feel? Yes or no? Is anybody in this room Does anybody in this room say that it's okay? It's a good feel? >> Yeah. >> There are those who say it's a good feel. So then you don't need another person. Okay, whatever. Fine. Void. But true when I Listen to this. When it comes to true one, you have a shaita. Did I tell you the story about my grandchildren? This nun. The ha ha ha. >> [laughter] >> The ha shaita. The ha suma. The shaneitra daisa. You have a person that's completely fakalak off the rail off the rocker. If you ask them because of the sickness, listen to this. When it comes to true one, you going to have an apitrobis, a woman who makes sure that everything is kosher and yosher that this person is right to go to the mikvah. She grabs the shaita, dunks her in the mikvah, and she could eat truma. So, says the real quickly. Nasan shinaflum agasha. How did it happen? Like we said the whole time, she fell off a bridge. So, it was a complete onus. And so, what's the raving Rav says that you don't have to have kavana. He says you do. So, Rav says just like by you don't know you have to have kavana, so too by neither you don't have to have kavana. Rav says no, neither is different than shchita. The next pshat is, this is a little trickier boys, I don't run out yet. She yordah l'haker. Listen to this. L'haker. She went into the water to cool off her feet. And then what happened? She slipped and fell. But what Listen to the nekudah here, Noam. This is what you you said before, you had a problem with this. There's a nafka mina Rebbe says there's a nafka mina between lachtoch and z'veicha. This cutting and the shchiting. What's cutting? Cutting is not shchiting. Cutting is cutting. A shochet cuts. A bardas shachts. So, cutting is a little bit of shchiting. So, over here we have something similar. There's a little bit of going to the mikvah. A little bit. It's not enough to fall off a bridge cuz there was zero in falling off a bridge. Over here, there's a maiseh of mikvah, but what? Putting in part of your feet in there. It's like cutting is part of shchita. It's a little bit of shchita. So, little bit of of tvila is putting in the feet then then you fell in for the rest. And on that there's a nafka mina. Hold on. There's a nafka mina between Rav >> She wanted to go swimming. >> No, no, no, no, no. That's something else. That's something else. That's a complete tvila. >> tvila. She wanted to go swimming. >> That's something else. So, let me just finish so we can go to shachris. There's a nafka mina between Rav and Rebbe Yochanan again, there's a nafka mina. Just like by shchita, it's enough to have kavana for cutting and not shchita, so by tvila also it's enough to have kavana to go into a to the water a little bit and not a complete tvila. And Rebbe Yochanan says no, tvila needs complete kavanah das and it's different than shchita. Rebbe boys, I have a wonderful day. >> [music] >> Merit the z'chus of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a shiur today. mdyisponsor.com or [email protected]. [music]