CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 12 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> GOOD MORNING RAB BOYS >> [screaming] >> IF YOU WITNESS THE SHITA And this is could happen here in Marrakech, you know You could possibly see a shita suddenly And you don't know who the shoychet is So if you if you saw the entire shita from beginning to end Then you're permitted to eat from his shita What's the concern? The concern is that the guy doesn't know halacha He's going to do a drisa which is very common meaning he's going to put downward pressure upward pressure depending what position he's in but he's not going to do a back and forth slice You're allowed to you're allowed to eat from the shita why? Because you saw that he was okay If you don't love if you didn't You didn't witness the whole thing oh it's like a shita Ask the guy what's the case? If the other the guy if you know for a fact this guy knows halacha normally you then you don't need to watch him that's the first we saw A person is believed to say that he himself did the shita it says I believe that was the positive something like that To the point where the person says you do shita eat If the other if you know for a fact that he's not a he doesn't know all the halachas Shita of course you need to watch him from beginning to end The law Perhaps there's a third option the law you have no clue you're in Marrakech You see a guy that claims to be Jewish doing shita You don't know if he's good or not So what's the So so let's say you don't know so why should it be okay not to watch him? Because the more it says there's a story that say we have a rave There's a rave that tells me The more people that deal with shita you're not going to mess around with shita if you don't know what you're doing. Most guys are average person that has nothing that doesn't know anything about shita is not going to shuck. It's a rave. So we go with the rave. We just had also yesterday what do you mean no rave? This is for sure rave the less common. I mean you can't count how many people know shita, don't know shita, deal with shita, not deal with shita. Well, we have a rave. Hello machine that should have worked. You like Daniel Rachel must have a good shita the shuck. You found a chicken shucked it in the in the market place. Mama mama kids from a sham who just in the shuck. Unbelievable. I shall all the shuck I say shuck the whole of the shuck. So this is very interesting. You tell your best friend Reuben go ahead and do me a favor. I'm having a party tonight shuck the animal for me. You come home. You come home and you find a shucked it animal on your counter top. Now you're not sure who shucked it it. So we're going to see like this. There's actually three three possibilities. You find a dead cow in a heap of garbage in middle of the Marrakech market. What does that tell us? The hair. What is that? Kosher not kosher? Very not kosher and a veil. You find a dead animal in your house on the kitchen table. Or you find a dead animal in your garbage can. So if it's on your kitchen table, what does that tell me? It's kosher. It's good. What if you find a dead animal in your garbage can? That's the that's the shiler. That's my chiyuv, really. >> [clears throat] >> So, let's see inside. >> [snorts] >> Cuz cuz if you shacht you find it in your house, it's great. L'chiyores, because we have a raiv. Who shachted it? I don't know. Is it Ruven that I told him to shacht it? It's another guy. But, most people that shacht are mumchim. So, therefore, why don't we say in our case, if I don't know whether this guy's is knows halacha or not, I'm in in Marrakech and I see some Yid shachting an animal. L'chiyores, if he shachted an animal, l'chiyores he knows what he's doing. So, why don't we say the same raiv? Says the Gemara in our case, lay lam the other lay gam We're talking about a situation where a guy knows for a fact that this person shachting has no clue. Doesn't know halacha. Okay, let me shacht a common siman. Let's do simanim. You have to shacht and you shachted one out of two. And I saw that you did a great job. But, then it happened to me today. I was sniffing those those spices. And all of a sudden I had a sneeze. You go unconscious for a moment over there. You like You have no idea what Sneeze, and then you you turn around and the second siman is already shachted. Now what? L'chiyores, it should be okay. No. No good. Look, he did a great job on the first siman, so the second siman as well. Beginner's luck. The reason why he got he did well on the first one is it happens. But, on the second siman I have to be concerned. Maybe he paused. Maybe he applied some pressure, unnecessary downward pressure, instead of just nice a nice slice. I tell Momish what we just discussed as if we didn't discuss it. I tell my best friend, go ahead, do me a favor, shuck me an animal. And I, the baal baayis who sent my friend to shuck, I come home and I find an animal that shucked the mouth. What's the law? You you could you could rely on a chazakah that's a good shchita. Now the Gemara wants to say, what is the difference between this case that I just said, that I tell somebody to shuck, and at the end I find something shucked, but I have no idea who shucked it. Is the guy I told him to shuck or somebody else? To where my similar case. I tell somebody, go, I have 100 fruit on my in my dining room. Do me a favor, take two of them, put on the side for the kohein, take another 9.8, put on the side for the Levi, then take another 10 and put on the side for maaser sheini. Leave me 80 on the side, basically. 20 over here, 80 over there. Round it up. I come back home, and sure enough, everything is perfect. There's a pile of 80 on this side, there's a pile of 20 on this side. You look at it, it's kosher, but I'm not sure if he did it. Maybe somebody else did it. What's the law? Can't eat from it. I told him to do it. But maybe somebody overheard and he did it. And then what's the problem? We're going [snorts] to learn a very big this is a very big problem when it comes to trumah, very very big problem. Says the Gemara, first of all, let's let's get to the question. Man of shuck. I have a problem, dilemma. If I can rely on Mark to do what I asked him to do, and he He he's going to do it, so he's going to do it. I feel the true man I mean that I should rely that he did it for the true man that should be able to eat the fruit. But if we I don't have such a I feel the true man I mean like so then how could I rely on Mark that he did the for me? Why is it any different than true man? On I believe him or I don't believe. I trust that he did what I asked him to do and true man I don't trust him. All right, lay. This is a beautiful beautiful lotion. You know what? If you want me to answer you, you have to pay me big time. So pay me big time. Or eat eat a ton of salt and then you'll you'll be sharp enough to understand. Oh, so he asked him a question. He says, "What's the difference between and true man?" He says, "You know what? If you pay me, I'll tell you." Then what? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But it's different cuz let's say somebody else the Benny did it, okay? But why would he do it if he doesn't know he's doing? Nobody touches a knife and checks the animals that know them. But we have a good right that tells us that anybody is doing knows what he's doing. He knows that a lot. But true man here, oh, this is the punchline. Once you hear this, you'll understand everything. Oh, let's say Benny did it. But Benny doesn't have the right to do it. You can't be a nice guy when it comes to true man. True man, you have to be asked to do. You can't just do it for somebody. That's considered doing true man without the permission of the owner even though you tried to do something good for him. That's true man and true man true man, it doesn't work. It works by it but not by true man. Says the Gamora. Don't tell me. I forgot to to show this. No, no, no, here we go. Okay. Lema says the Gamara Rebbi Meir says it's forbidden to eat from it. Maybe this whole concept that we're discussing, that this is a that anybody that touches a knife knows what he's doing is actually this onion. A person his his goats, his chickens went missing. What happened? What happened? This is big tzaddik stole a bunch of goats, but he slaughtered them. He's a he's a tzaddik. He slaughtered it and put on the side. Rebbi Yehuda says he says he can't eat from it. So let's remember, it's hard to remember Rebbi Rebbi Yehuda says it's forbidden. Rebbi We don't need to remember the whole name. Rebbi Yehuda says it's permitted. Oh, my Rebbi. He says, "Rebbi, listen. I like what Rebbi Yehuda is saying that it's forbidden to eat when he finds it in the garbage can." Rebbi In those days, you know, that it was unbelievable. The the closest I ever got to this one I went to You know what I'm talking about. Where you go into Mea Shearim after the when they do the fires over there, so they won't they won't clear the garbage for a few days. No Rebbi. Piles of piles and they punished them. "You want to burn? Burn here. We're not going to take the garbage." Because they burned the the garbage cans, whatever. I was once there. Unbelievable. Like a garbage strike. I think in New York they had a one. No. Yeah. That's it. In the olden days, that's it was everywhere. There's no disposal, so you just there's a pile in the middle of the city. A big pile. No Rebbi. She says, "I agree with Rebbi Yehuda when you find it in the garbage, it's forbidden. That means it's not available." Rebbi that says it's permitted when he finds it in a house. We're going to see later on the Gamara says the Rebbi's not determining who the Allah is like. Oh, I like him. I like him. All Rebbi's doing is says that everybody agrees to these these are partial things that Rebbi Yuda is going to agree in all situations that it's muter it's also like this and it's muter like that and Rebbi Chanina is going to they argue they're going to argue in the middle case. My love. Balgum so what's the Gamara saying right now? Omar the Gamara wants to say that this machlokes of the roiv that we have a roiv that people that deal with shchita they know what they're doing is actually a machlokes between Rebbi Yuda and Rebbi Chanina. Or Rebbi Chanina is going to lie there's no force to say that the kuli alma Rebbi Yuda shchita no you can say everybody agrees that if you're dealing with shchita you know what you're doing you know the Allah. Or Rebbi Yuda the kuli alma Rebbi Yuda plee and nobody argues in a house the shari if you find a shachat animal on your kitchen table and you in your in your kitchen period it's good it's kosher. And ashposh the kuli alma Rebbi plee also he threw the navela if you have a navela you throw it into the ashposh everybody agrees that's treif. Rebbi Yuda also he plee ba ashposh ba bayis Rebbi Yuda mostly latin Rebbi Yuda ashposh ba bayis Yeah, listen. But it's it's not a normal thing to put a dead carcass in your garbage can at home cuz it really smells bad. So that's a machlokes there some say yes it's normal. Omar Rebbi Yuda mostly latin Rebbi Yuda ashposh ba bayis Most people take it outside to the to the local dump and not dump it in their house. So maila if you find it in your garbage at home obviously it's kosher. Omar Omar Rebbi so now we're just going to finish up what We already discussed this Rebbe and we explained it, but we'll do it inside. Omar Rebbe, if I love Rebbe Yehuda who says it's assur, we find it in the garbage, my ashpa, what does it mean? So, listen to this deal, guys. It's good to listen. Pay attention over here. The my ashpa, where is it assur? My ashpa, you know, the ashpa in the It can't be the the one outside. How is the kuli avi? Everyone in the room here, when I asked them in the beginning, if you find a dead animal in the local um what is it a call where they dumps not dumps dumpster local uh landfill. In the local landfill, it's l'chora treif. Everybody agrees to that. So, what does it mean you found it in the ashpa? Can't mean the local dumpster, the local landfill. It's talking about the garbage in your house. And on that Rebbe Yehuda says what? Assur. A maisefa, so they have a contradiction cuz in the sefa I could do the exact opposite deal. I like Rebbe Chanina when I find it in the house. My bites, what does it mean house? You know what my bites means? I found it on the kitchen table. How is the kuli avi? Everybody agrees if you find it on the kitchen table, it's mutar. And if she the bites must be in the in the garbage can in your house where we saw this guy finding. And on that Rebbe Chanina says it's mutar. And Rebbe Yehuda says it's assur. It's contradiction because Rebbe says, I like Rebbe Yehuda who says it's assur. I like Rebbe Chanina who says it's mutar. So, kasha the Rebbe on the Rebbe. So, that the Gemara says, no. Daf Yud Beis Mem Beis. Near and dear Rebbe Yehuda, Rebbe didn't come to to say I hold like this one or like that one. That's not That wasn't his point. His point was that everybody agrees to certain parameters here. Rebbe Yehuda, I'm sorry. Rebbe Chanina likes what Rebbi Yehuda said. What did Rebbi Yehuda say? That it's ossur. We're talking about the local dump. That even Rebbi Chanina agrees that's ossur. So, Rebbi Chanina Rebbi Yehuda say Rebbi Akiva he only argued on the on the house one. And then the Nirim the opposite. In other words, everybody is in agreement that if you find it on your kitchen table it's muttar. And everybody's in agreement they find it in the shuk Rebbi wasn't making oh I hold like him and over here and I hold like you all are saying that everybody holds that. Rebbi Yehuda and Rebbi Chanina don't even argue when it comes to the local dump that it's 100% treif. And if it's on your kitchen table it's 100% muttar. The whole machlokes was in your kitchen garbage. That's where the machlokes is. Okay. Next again. Chosam Hakoton Shmei Kakos Shchitosam. So, Chosam Hakoton cannot do shchita cuz they might ruin it. So, the merchant dying Kuku Laktai doesn't say maybe they ruined a Shmei Yei Kakos So, it would be a kakos of the future. Omer Rava say Mar say Moishe Chulin L'chatchila. You cannot give your simple animal you're not nothing to do with kosher you can't give it to a Chosam Hakoton who don't have daas. The Chulin Shchuto B'Chere Roim Shchito doesn't Shchira. Man Tana D'lo D'lo Beinum Kavana L'Shchita. Who's the Tana who says that you don't need to have kavana when you do shchita? In other words, you can do shchita if you did it properly. You didn't do drisa, you didn't do shiya, you didn't do chalada, you didn't do all this bad stuff. So, it's a good shchita even though you didn't you didn't mean you didn't mean to do it. So, who's the Tana? I guess it's machlokes like Aryeh Klein would say it's machlokes whether or not you need kavana. So, the Gemara here's a crazy situation. Omer Rava Rebbi Nossoni So, Rebbi Nosson Don't you shy away from Chareidim Zorek Sakin. Here is a case. A guy is taking knife practice. He's throwing knives. He's practicing you that What is it called? It's like All right, so what did the guy do tomorrow? So here, check this out. It's a crazy story. The guy is throwing a knife through the ear. I'm going to ask the ham there's an animal walking by. Ma'aser animal. And the it gets its neck as they go for shaked. The tiny tiny tiny exactly the knife of the Kaiser. What is this? Why? Cuz you don't need you don't have to have Kabbalah. You don't have to have lishma. Who taught in the law? Rebbe Shimon himself says it and he explains. How logical you have nothing. The law is you don't need to have Kabbalah. You threw it. You didn't mean to kill an animal. There was certainly no shih here cuz it went There's no drisa cuz there's no downward pressure. Maybe maybe there's a gimel on the knife so you'll check it out afterwards. As tomorrow what we eat on but you have to go back and forth. So look what the guy says. It's one of those guys that makes you wow. But I think like all those guys some of them like like I don't understand. How's it possible? The point is we're talking about a theoretical thing that maybe never happened never will happen. But logically would that be a good shih here or not? Let's say it happened. Let's say on the let's say. So I know exactly what I have to think about what exactly. I know exactly what he's thinking about. It's similar to that. No, where the guy made a box and a a whole diagram. No, no, no, we're going to go back there. We're not going to explain. Obviously if you made a box it was a good thing here, but is it possible? I don't know. That's not the point. The point is theoretically [clears throat] what does the law say in case where a guy throws a knife and it hits the wall, bounces and it slices the the the the neck, bounces off the wall, and comes back and slices it again. Is that considered Is that a good shita because there was zero kavana? Says Rashi that you don't have to say such a crazy situation where it bounced off the wall came back. All you need to say you threw a very long knife. Because as long as there's two two necks you have a neck plus another neck, then it's okay. Then it's a good You only have to go forward. You don't have to go forwards and backwards. One more small sugi here. Omar Ribbi Abba boy Ribbi Yona coding issue of shava and shava. So, I want you to take a pencil if you have one. And right over here that the word machshava doesn't mean a thought, it means to speak it out. If a small child tells you what he meant to do, could we rely on that or not? No, Marshall, if he's shachting an oila and he says, "I shachted this oila." He tells you, "I shachted lishma." Could I rely on him? Omar Ribbi Ami the ba'ali ma'aseh. So, Ribbi Ami has a as a great kasha on him. He says, "Listen, why you why did you mention machshava? Do you not know that there's a mefurash mishnah that talks about ma'aseh? And since the mishnah over there talks about ma'aseh, the mishnah also talks about machshava, and we have an answer for your question. With the ba'ali ma'aseh, how can you ask me about a a full-fledged action? The what? Ma'aseh the ma'aseh the lo come and ba'ali lay. Why didn't you ask me? The reason is very simple, cuz it's a mefurash mishnah. So, you didn't ask me a a mefurash mishnah. This not yesh lema'aseh. A kid has a ma'aseh. Machshava nami lo ba'ali lay. So, if so, in that same mishnah tells you what the halacha is with dibur, and then I know the answer. So, why why are you asking me the question? It's a mefurash mishnah. What's the case? This not yesh lema'aseh machshava Sorry, this not in the machshava. The a kid's machshava or dibur doesn't count for anything. This not. Ailoin aloin, if you have a acorn, very minor pomegranate or egg whites or not Shakaku tonight guys that the kids took and hollowed out a let's say pomegranate or they hollowed out a nut. In order to fill it up with dirt or should you know what I mean they used it as a one of those old time scales. So they needed a second part so they they hollowed out a fruit. Why did they hollow it out? To make it a clay. Oh, they made it a clay to make him. Why? Maybe they should use it that's a that's a something physical. But I didn't have a question on Dbor. What happens when his thought is understood through his action without talking without talking? In other words, you're going to have a here the classic case. We know that carbon is a mostly carbon is especially have to be done in the northern part of the Azara meaning if your misbech is that line has to be above that line not below them is back which is Darem. So if a kid pulls an animal from the Darem to the Sefen obviously knows what he's doing. Obviously he's trying to shut down animal. Let's say in Isla Lishma in the right place. So that was my question. My question was something that's not in the Mishnah. It's something in between. It's not a full fledged my sir and it's not a Dbor. It's a my sir that tells me what is my shovel is. My what's that with my shovel he got a lot. Obviously he knows what he's doing so he had carbon. I do my maybe the fact that he took it from the south to the north is only because he didn't have enough room over there. Rabbi say have a wonderful day a wonderful evening. Hi, hi, hi. >> [music] >> Merit this class of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor a shiur today. mdy.sponsor.com or [email protected]. [music]