CHAZARAH - Bechoros Daf 17 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

He's trying to do [singing] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [singing] Good morning. Welcome. Welcome to all the guests. Today is the yard holding right after the base. If we are successful like we were with the Hebrew, we're going to finish the entire even all the way to the end even getting to. So here we're talking about Barzel the ironclad sheep barel metal sheep. What does that mean? [cough and clears throat] You give somebody uh a certain amount, a nursing home, sheep, whatever. You tell them, you tell them that they must return the exact whatever it is, the nursing home, the sheep in 10 years, exactly the way they received it. And in return for that, the person taking care of the sheep splits with the original owner, the profits, all the offspring, 50/50, let's say. Yeah. I will show the video one more time in case you're brand new over here. So now does that work with a Jew? Could you do something like that with a Jew? So we'll see. It's very interesting. Says that what did the mission tell us? Misha says that if you do a deal like that with a non-Jew, the non-Jew owns 100 sheep. He gives it to the Jew. He says in 10 years from now I want in return a 100 sheep. And Throughout those 10 years, we divide, we split the prophets, the offspring. The mission tells us that all the offspring, the firstborn of the offspring, you don't have to do, you don't have to give it to usually when you own sheep and you have a firstborn, you have to give to not in this case. Why? Because the Torah says if you have a partnership with a non-Jew, you from this is some sort of partnership. So if there's a partnership, what does that tell us? That tells us that it never transferred ownership. The non-Jew owns the hund sheep. He just lent it to the Jew, but it never it never went it never left his possession. It's really the the guys. Otherwise, if it's not the guys, you wouldn't be part of the the nonjew never received payment. So these sheep are always still in the possession of the nonjew. The problem is we have a that tells us all the ribbus over there in you're not permitted to do the same exact idea with a Jew. Take his hund sheep, work them, and then give him. Why? Think about it. You're taking 100 from the Jew. It becomes like yours. And then you giving back 200 when you're done. Giving back 150. That's ribbus. So that means that it went to the receiver, the second Jew. He's the one accepting it. It becomes his. It's not if it remained by if it remains the initial the original owner's possession, it wouldn't be Riv. So you see that since you're ribb it must mean that it leaves the original guy's possession. It goes to the second guy. He becomes like responsible for it. Now it's in our Mishna we're talking about that the accepted upon himself that he that if anything happens to the sheep it's on him and if it goes down in value it's on him. Oh, so you accept such a thing then it's considered the non-Jews. He's he's still a real owner. Why? Because he's accepting upon himself all responsibility. What the Gar is going to ask in a second is that then that's not ironclad. That's not so parasel means it's strong like metal. So like metal means that you the receiver must give back to the owner exactly the way you received it with the with the with the depreciation with all the different things going on here. You have to give back the original the owner did not accept the therefore he gave it completely over to the second Jew. Second Jew did business with it and he's returning more than he received. That's ribbus. That's considered ironclad. That's considered barasel. What kind of barzel is that? It's barzel, but it's rusty. It's like, oh, if something happens, don't worry about it. The owner takes care of it. Here we go. Take a little video here. >> I'm very busy with important matters of state. Where do you see any indication to this answer? They both say one is to Jew, one is to go and the Mishna doesn't mention a word about do you see it anywhere in the why why did you come up with this idea and it doesn't there's no mention at all over there's two cases one is that a Jew gives to a Jew the second case is a Jew gives to a I'm sorry gives to a Jew in guy. It switches gears from a Jew to a Jew and from a guy to a Jew because you're allowed to receive. We're talking about ribbow to take from a non-Jew. Lift it like say one case and it'll be a bigger the case of a Jew to a Jew. There's a way that it's there's a way that's if the original owner did not accept upon himself then it's real ribbons I have a way that a Jew could give you he could give you sheep tell you pay me back in 10 years the same amount plus we'll split the profits and it's not ribbous how is it not ribbas if he accepted upon himself the original owner Why are you jumping to the case of a good giving to the Jewish here in there's no like I said the Mishna doesn't mention it over there doesn't mention here there's no what's the reason why are you from when the guy gave you these sheep as a bar what if the shows up and says, "Pay me back." And you have nothing to pay him back with. What will he do? He'll grab the offspring. Or he'll try to grab the original. He can't find that. It's already they're dead. He'll grab the offspring. Once the has the right to grab offspring, he has some sort of ownership over here. He has a he has a it's not the say and that's it. He's from special says this is not accurate. It's not really going on this. But what do we see in the mish? You see that if you receive from a non-Jew a bunch of sheep asel the are now in order to understand the it's slightly confusing. We have like 15 lines of we're going to do the same thing. So I just let's start it out over here. What is once we understand this then we understand the whole really we just have to make a slight adjustment doesn't mean that the offspring is not a what does mean that if the offspring has offspring >> they are the anle is potter yeah again says in the Mishna if you were to read it you think oh the vlad you have it so barasel you have the mother If she has a vlad for that's not the simple is the we're talking about the vlad is potter it it has a for her offspring the grandchild the grandchild is >> so when I say the next words look with me right over here what is what generation for so Let's see. >> Greek >> Greek ranches here. So here it is right over here. It's very This makes it slightly clearer. This is the bar. That's the Vlad that we said. That is P. Oh the the Vlad Vladis. It actually says it over here. You see Vlad? This is Vladis. This is Vlad Vlades. The third generation is Vlad Vlades. The fourth generation is that's what he's saying is saying the fourth generation is it's only the third generation that is potter the are potter meaning the the vlad this guy is he's the the he's the direct he's the the first generation son his daughter her her her offspring is potter from is this too confusing it's very simple The question is do we do we even consider the first guy? Do we get rid of the barel? But it says our potter is this guy. The second this is the original the black sheep is the original that the Jew received from the non-Jew are potter from what does it mean potter? Her offspring d two is offspring. D three mister three would be potter but mr four is kay. Now we're talking about what's she says no. And then we have says all about what's in other words [clears throat] >> only the fifth generation I what I call fifth generation. So anyways, raid says that the fourth generation from the barel is uh is pot meaning I should say meaning that her offspring would be. So let's see how that works with our Mishna. So here we have a nice video. What does that mean? If you tell the non-Jew, instead of me coming, instead of you non-Jew coming and taking the ironclad sheep that you gave me, I want you to come and take the the offspring. Don't even deal with the what you gave me. You're going straight to the to the second generation. You're going straight to the Yeah. here. Same thing, but you'll just see it in uh in a visual. The has no connection to the to the to the black sheep. It all starts from there. So it's pushed off by one generation. Everything is pushed off by one. So ask in that case the third generation's the then it's only why do you push it off to the fifth and say the f number five is because you pushed them off. But if if the the guy was standing to the right of the black sheep you wouldn't go all the way to five you go to four. No, no, you always go to five. In that case, the the non-Jew will take the owner, original owner will grab all the way to the the fourth generation. I'm just saying that he's saying that standing. What are you reading? He said it >> okay what that standing there not standing there it's all the same thing in the says the guy goes and takes 10 generations down the line you're responsible all the way 10 generations look how many generations is actually um moving away from the black sheep. He's all the way there. So, in order to to say that he's wrong, oh, you're not doing three, four generations. You're doing 10 generations. I'm talking 10. But according to Rahuna that it's just referring to the offspring, the original offspring of the and it's it's Vlad. So why is he talking in numbers? It should he should just say even he should just say you're saying I'm saying even why does he say the number 10? is talking about future more generations because he's talking about the case of right over here. This the moved one over. So now the is actually generation three. He said, "No, even up to generation 10." What? >> What does it say? It says in our look at, you could even see I think it's on top of the first words. Yeah. First words in V. That literally that doesn't sound like at all. That sounds like Rauna. It's one generation. That's it. We're not talking about on the first generation. That's why because that's so posh. We're talking about the second generation. In other words, yeah would refer to the third generation that gave birth and that would be a question on whoa says it's only the second generation not the third generation. You don't say val you say which is referring to the is the first generation but the third generation and that's the end of that okay we had this a number of times nidma of nidma you have a sheep that gave birth to something that looks like a goat Oh, >> look how wild he is. I think he gets it from that side. >> So comes comes with a gift. What's his gift? He comes with a a >> My goodness. >> Is that in this case? You have >> Maybe you should have. >> It looks like a sheep, but it's really the mother is a goat. It looks like a goat, but the mother's a sheep. What? I'm not I'm not sure what he's talking about. Is he talking about what is he talking about? If he's saying that can't be we learned doesn't seem like anybody argues in this that in order to bear this the the kid this firstborn male has to look like its mother that gets that when you shear wool from a sheep the first shearings go to the every time you shear you have to give a little bit to the kite but wait a minute let's So this you know you don't have to give the shearing sorry but it says over here that you wise it has to be wool that that could they could warm somebody not not the tough tough wool says The was there was a a sheep and a goat that got married and they had a obviously the kid is going to look a little weird. It's going to be a mix. We know that tells us that you not let the mother and her son the same day. What about a father and a son the same day? So we had a whole in if we are concerned at all about the father then the father and the son the same day and over here since the father is a goat are we concerned about the father so therefore he can't the goat and the son who's a goat in the same day this is a sheep and the father's a goat but the end of the Today it's really are we are we concerned about the father now nothing to do with goat nothing to do about sheep from are we concerned about a father nothing to do with the father's different than a mother and he's a goat and she's a sheep are we concerned about the father let's go back says that when there's when a a goat gives birth to a sheep or a sheep gives birth to a goat you're That's you ask me. It says in the it has to look exactly like the mother. [clears throat] What happened? The nidma is one generation removed. It's something like >> the grandmother is a goat. The original nidma is the mother. And then the granddaughter looks like the mother. But in fact, I mean, if you check her jeans, the granddaughter, she has goat jeans. She's really a goat. But it's not a true, it's not an original nidma. It's one, it's a second generation nidma. So, what's the is you go after the mother. The granddaughter looks like her mother. So, she's a good she's kosher for it's not considered You go after the grandmother. You have to look at the real genes. The real genes is a goat and slightly different. That the daughter, the granddaughter does not look like her mother. She actually looks like her grandmother. She's back to normal. The little bug in the middle, >> the stick all messed up in the middle looked like a goat. But then it smooth itself out. It went back to being a normal sheep. The the the sheep came back to where it's supposed to belong. on [clears throat] whether or not we view this granddaughter as as a normal sheep or not. You know, because you're right that this goat came from a sheep, but it looks very much like a sheep. It has all sorts of characteristics of a sheep. That's why argues in that some it looks like a sheep. What's what's the problem? We had all Remember when we learned this? We learned to like or something. Yeah. It looks like the mother. It's It's like the mother, but only if it's the majority. Here we had this one. I was going to remind you this guy. Yeah. Oh, so it looks like a sheep. So the back does not look then but in this case not. Okay, one last reminder in case you didn't do the the emails. You skipped those emails. So don't forget Mikra starting boratious. A lot of people started last year for the first time. Somebody said last night he's starting he's in his 40s. Somebody finished yesterday for the first time. 47. There's a lot of people out there. It's it's avah. It's sometimes you don't have to fly all all over the world for you could just do what it says in the is the best also another easy that if you have this the goat of the everybody agrees that has to it can't be it has to be an original my one generations all the way back to to it's a it's a goat o this is what we're looking for is telling us that in every carbon forget about Every carbon cannot be can't put a on the base of MD says if it doesn't look like the mother then it's possible. Maybe it should be kosher. It's not. You can put on the math cuz it looks like [snorts] it looks like the mother just doesn't look like the grandmother. Maybe is okay. So we have so we have a few easy here. When you have a and you take the nidma's wool and you weave it together with flex, it's not considered shas. the flax didn't change doesn't change. But if if flax could change, we' have a problem. But at this point, the understands flax grows normally didn't change. So if you have a weird type of wool from you're not on you can't use it for [clears throat] if you make wool out of this and this doesn't come has to be either wool or flags but not so according to this something like this you grow grapes on top of a fig tree you can't bring wine that grows on a fig tree as the I'm comparing the to the wine the carbon the wine I cannot put we already established you can't on the nothing changed on the wine and this wine changed is going to explain in a minute what changed thereabo what if you take flex you put it on a thorn bush you grow with the thorn bush like here thorns thorn bush flexi over here now all of a sudden you have flex that changed and if that's the days and before we were comparing wool to flax and we said flax never changes but you have a situation the flax did change how do you know flax didn't change there's many times in the field other things grow together with the with the flax no when you put the grapes on a fig tree it's going to smell different it's going to change the composition of the wine but the flax is flax there's a bunch of thorn bushes There nothing changed with the flags says we had this this is easy stuff now all the way to the end you have a sheep that never gave birth. So her first born is going to be what if she gives birth to two males at the same time [clears throat] both go to the kite. So that's the famous concept called and in the Gar they had a nice picture that even if you have a stopwatch and so 12 minutes and 34 seconds but the the fraction of a second is always going to be as slightly off. You're not going to be down to the millionth of a second if you do how's it possible that you have two things that are exact to the mill second but holds you could get it down to second. Therefore says plural why the say for our [snorts] case exactly our case it's impossible. So therefore what the the gets one and the coin gets one but the coin gets to choose the nicer one. No the owner gets to choose. We're going to see in the exact what it means. [clears throat] You see the difference. But the bottom line is that the owner is going to get the the choice. But now the is gets one. The crown gets one. But can eat his. Why? >> What? >> It's a how you going to eat it? I don't know which one came out first. We don't know. So I said, "Okay, one goes to the car, one goes, but what if mine is the realar? How am I eating it?" So therefore year after it goes to Kev's land and we we just wait around until it befalls a moment and then you eat it and when you have to give to the as if it's a we'll see everything two were born simultaneously but one died. Now what do you do? The says it's mine. Says it's his. So you do 50/50. Why should the get anything is in the possession of the simultaneously? Boy, girl, male, female born. It's possible the girl is born first. It's possible there's zero zero or what? Listen to this. But here's a question question. What if I saw with a laser beam I took all their measurements they were actually born the same exact millisecond says it's notar it's not aar if two males are born exactly if I could if tells me comes says these these guys were born to the millionth of a second okay two yes two males but once I throw in something that's not a into the into the whole thing and she was born simultaneously with the he's not a we said before it's remember we had a certain maybe she's a it's the same thing it's not what he said it's not okay says very good thank you we're almost done we have five more minutes actually believe it or not I know it's a little late but we started It's possible that even when it's a act of God, it's a it's a natural birth. It's possible that it happens simultaneously. The cult when you're trying to build [clears throat] a aircraft or whatever, you're trying to be mit to the to the and you're trying you're mid says Rashi then then then of course you could. It's even more than uh uh by chance. Birth is by chance. Most of the time it doesn't happen. By chance, it's possible. But if a human being wanted it to happen and he worked really hard that something should happen, he could according to the it never happens like that by mistake. But what if human beings actually wanted it to happen? Is it possible to have something that should be on the millisecond back to the on the MSB there's a red line and there's below the red line and above the red line most of Kbanas went you pour the blood below the red line it goes like this let me just show you real quick from Hulen till the new people take the blood of the carbon you throw it is right there on that southwest corner Gali but it says that you know the CO goes above the red line and and and that red line is is the dividing now who who drew the red line a human being it can't be accurate it can't be exactly halfway to the misb has to be on the halfway point at one point he's going to dip 1 of a millimeter below the halfway point and then a guy goes and spills the blood above the red line. In fact, it's below the red line or vice versa. It's a it's a human line. So, what do you see that a human being could draw a perfect line? Turn out that it's not a great line. So, you poured blood that goes above and you happen to be below the or the reverse says this line is a thick line. So even if you make a human mistake, you're still going to get this the middle of the mis because it's thick. You're always going to hit the middle and you're supposed to go above the red and below the red. >> You hit the middle one >> then then anyways you see that you hit the middle then you didn't do the a good job. You see that you hit the red line. You're supposed to go below the red line. If you stop right over here the Torah says build a that's long two wide and a half. How do you get? How you going to do it? It's never going to be an It's going to be and and a fraction of a of a millimeter says, "How big says do it and however you do it, it's great. We know that you're humans and you're not going to be exact. You're going to be get it as close as possible. We're talking about a a oven and and he and he and he splits it in half and they're exactly the same. And why [clears throat] are because the larger piece is the one that has the to the other one not but they're both we both consider both but maybe he made a perfect split down the middle. It's impossible to split earnware down the middle because it has indentations and different imperfections in it that you'll never get it 100% down the middle. You find the body between two cities. So you measure and you bring in the city that's closest to the dead body. You don't know who the killer is. So you bring the the calf to the to what if it's exactly smack in the middle. You bring two two calves. You could measure exact you bring two two because it says in the plural. No, this goes according to only. Have a wonderful day. >> Meritus of spreading Torah throughout the world. Sponsor Ashir today. mdysponsor.com [music] or sponsor atmop.com.