Menachos Daf 89

All right, I'm getting Zimmer. Daf Pay Tes, Friday, Isru Chag stuff. Let's pick it up from the top of Pay Tes, where the Mishnah said look Shemen La'Teda. Why do we need a look measurement in the Beis Hamikdash for the Korban Todah? Taniya, we learned in a Braisa, Akiva Omer, Talmid Laimor Ba'Shemen, Ba'Shemen Shtei Pa'amim. Rashi brings the Pasuk, Challahs, Matzos, Blus Ba'Shemen, Rikikim Matzos Meshuchim Ba'Shemen, So'les Mikaves Challahs Blus Ba'Shemen. It says a bunch of times Shemen in the Pasuk. So Akiva says, why does it twice? Look at the Braisa, Ilulei Ne'emar Ba'Shemen Echad, had it only said it once, Kol Minchos Lelug, I would have thought that the Lachmei Todah are just like all the other Minachos that require an entire lug of Shemen. So Achshav She'kasav Ba'Shemen, Ba'Shemen, two different times, Havei Ribuya Acharei Ribuya, Ribuya Acharei Ribuya Al Lama'et. So ironically, because it says Shemen another time, we'll actually add less Shemen. So Miyuta Kasav Lechatzi Lug. Ribuya Acharei Ribuya, you're calling that Ribuya Acharei Ribuya? Havei Ribuyu? In other words, the first time it says it, you got to say it for itself that you need to have a lug. So you only have one extra Ribui. Ela, this is what the Braisa means. Ilulei Ne'emar Ba'Shemen Kol Echar, had it not said any Shemen, I would have thought Kol Minchos Lelug, I might have thought you would also need to have a full lug. So Achshav Shena'amar Ba'Shemen, Ba'Shemen, an extra two times now, okay? Havei Ribuya Acharei Ribuya, Ribuya Acharei Ribuya Al Lama'et. And therefore, Miyuta Kasav Lechatzi Lug, and that's why we downgrade to a Chatzi Lug because of the Ribuya Acharei Ribuya, which is Lama'et. Yachol Yihye Chatzi Lug Zeh Mischa'lek Leshalos Minim. I might have thought that Chatzi Lug now gets divided into three equal parts for the three different kinds of Lachmei that accompany the Korban Todah. LeChallahs, LeRikikin, U'LeRavicha. So K'shehu Omer Ba'Shemen Ba'Ravicha, but when the Torah specifically says you need Shemen by the Ravicha, She'eint Omer Lama'et. I don't need it to say it. Ribui Shemen LeRavicha, it tells us to add more oil for the Ravicha. So it said, how do you actually add more oil? Meivi Chatzi Lug Shemen Vecha'tzi'ehu, you take a Chatzi Lug Shemen, you divide it into two halves, meaning two quarter lug Chalakim. Chatzi of LeChallahs U'LeRikikin, half of that quarter is used for the Challahs U'LeRikikin. Vecha'tzi of the other whole half of that quarter lug is used for the Ravicha. So the Ravicha gets a higher proportion of that hati look than the halas and kikin get. Amarlay Rabbi Eliezar ben Azaria, Akiva, im atem marbeh kol am kulah bashem umeshamen, you could be darshaning this all day with these bashemen kind of drashas, but eish amelcha, I'm not listening to you. El hati look shamen letayda ulervias shamen lenazer, deachas yam shiben nidah lenidah, all those shiurim are halacha lemaaseh misinai. So, Rabbi Eliezar ben Azaria says I don't need your makaris cuz these are halacha lemaaseh misinai. Now, both Rabbi Eliezar ben Azaria and Rabbi Akiva are going to be maskim that they're deoraisa, but as we know there are nafka minas if something comes from a drasha or if it comes from a halacha lemaaseh misinai. Ainkshim is a big one, whether it's mushbeah im edlah kabein shvuah halashvuah, like the ran and the darma daf ches be limina teira. Al kapon Rabbi Eliezar ben Azaria holds it's a halacha lemaaseh misinai. Then the Mishnah said balug hayam maydayd, what do they need a lug for? They would measure the shamen for the menachos. And then the Mishnah brought a machlokes between tanakama and Rabbi Eliezar ben Yaakov whether or not for a big mincha that had lemarshal 60 isarines, would you need 60 lugan of shamen or one single lug of shamen? So, tanu rabanan, the braisa says bibitzaira on eix isarin balul velug. So, limud alisarin shatal lug, so we make the drasha that every isarin of flour in a carbon mincha that it requires its egna lug of shamen. And we're darshaning that from the fact that the Torah has to tell us that the mincha of the metzora, when he's too poor to bring an animal, the Torah still tells us he needs an isarin of flour, which lechara seems to be meyutar. So, we darshan that every mincha requires a lug of shamen to correspond per isarin of flour. That's all divrei chachamim. But, Rabbi Nechemia and Rabbi Eliezar ben Yaakov aimrim, afelu mincha shel shishim isarinim eilo elo luga, I don't care how many isarines, even if it's up to 60, you're only going to need the single lug of shamen. Shenema lemincha baleg shamen. Ay, Rabbi Nechemia and Rabbi Eliezar, what do you do with the other drasha? Hai isarin balul velug mayav leye. Which the komar said lugu fei, you need it for its own halacha. Dekomar Rachmana leisi chadisarin, I need to know that the metzora himself has to bring that isarin. Na veida, what about the chachamim who do darshan that pasuk legufei leitzarech? Why am I to call it Rachmana kabein metzora? Since we know by a metzora who could afford it that he brings shlosha korbanos vishlosha isarines, hacha dechad carbon chadisarin legabei the poor metzora where he only has to bring one carbon. He only needs to bring one issaron of flour. That's all he needs to bring. The other day all the need this possible because since the tires already downgrading this poor metzora that he doesn't have to bring an animal at all. So the tires such on this poor metzora that he doesn't have to bring a carbon at all. So there's a he has to bring the carbon the other you're not going to get away without bringing anything at all. Wait a expression back in by how many he do. You don't find a that you don't have to do anything. Okay, now flipping it around and I love a little shaman my of delay. What do they do with those words in the at the other when you bring the look shaman for a carbon no matter how much flour it has. What do they do with that so a little bit of if you're going to be a minute you can't bring less flour that would correspond to anything less than a look. You need to learn you always have to bring a minimum of flour of an the other they don't need an extra because they can learn both from it. Next part of the mission says she shall power our bull the other column for those measurements were needed for the power island respectively. How many you needed so we know and how do you know how much oil you bring for each one of these this is the same in in tracer we know that a hint is 12 to save shaman zionist hint shaman yes and the magic tracer what's the magic of that's 12. So therefore I can establish that a hint is 12 and therefore the hint is going to be six for the power third of a hint for the and the four which is a quarter hint for the this is one of the two places in shots where we learn from maybe there's more I don't know but teaches us it's 12 and by the teaches us that the is and then the mission had said three and a half a minute half a minute three and a half for shaman were used in a half a look for each one of the so we on the Amelia the ton of rabbonon, the Torah tells us Yarah and all of may Arab at baker. So, we dash and tame the midosa. You got to give the full measure of oil. She take the lecus by lecus may Arab at baker. You have to have enough oil that it could burn the whole night. This is the kasha they ask on the base Yosef one cuz the base Yosef in his famous kasha of why do we light eight narus of Chanukah? He heard the first night there was no nes. He said because they divided up that pach shemen into eight nights. I the Gemara Menachos pay tes and aleph says you have to be tame the midosa. So, the truth is the Taisus Harush who also asks the kasha of the base Yosef. Clearly the base Yosef didn't have the Taisus Harush. But, the Taisus Harush himself asks the kasha and answers in the same way the base Yosef that they divided up into eight chalakem. But, he says it's only hecha de efshar when it's tame the midosa. And obviously it wasn't efshar if they only had a pach shemen. Dover acher another drasha from this pasuk may Arab at baker in lecha aveda she shera may Arab at baker el zu bilvad. There's no other aveda in the base Hamikdash other than the mitzvah of the narus of the menorah that you do from the time it gets dark until the sun rises. Veshiru chachamim chatzi lug meurta ve atzafra. Then the chachamim shut stop that. A chatzi lug is the amount that it burns from night till morning. And Rashi points out it's irrespective of how long or how short the night is. There are rishonim that learn based on the Yerushalmi that even if it's the same amount of oil but they would use different thicknesses of wicks to draw up the oil kifi how long the night was. So, now how did chazal actually arrive at the conclusion of how long it took to burn through the shemen in one night? So, you could amri mil maloh le maila shiru that they used larger amounts and then they worked their way down until they got to the right amount. You could amri mil maloh le maila shiru they started from smaller and they could add until they got to the right amount. Which is a little surprising because when it was too little lecher they weren't yet to the mitzvah as I brought to Keren Orah Chazon Ish has turitzim. Okay. But, now the Gemara explains mind the amri mil maloh le maila shiru, right? If you went from smaller to larger amount the rationale would be because of Torah chos min shel Yisrael. Um amri mil maloh le maila shiru that you start with a lots and you work your way down because in an es bemokem shirus in the base Hamikdash you don't prob like an aramench. So, you use more oil and then you work your way down. These ideas of Torah chos min shel Yisrael and in an es bemokem shirus lecher a lot of stereotypic ideas. So you have to know when you apply each one of these respective rules. So I got the mission my Arvin next to prom in next to alum. So let's say you have the Nissan of these wines that go along with the carbonus. You can be my Arvin you can mix together in this case prom in this case alum because they are the same amount. And likewise in this case prom in this case alum and we show you have a mission to see prom turning over to a base and show you have a mission to see prom because as you may remember back from Dr. You could bring them the Nissan after the day of your carbon. So there's no problem. I will aim my Arvin this case prom in this case alum in this case alum because they're different amounts. But in bowl and alum in the alum in the alum in the alum in the alum in the alum if you prepared each one of these things independently and then Venice Arvin it'll be in Arvin in bowl and alum in bowl and alum if the whole thing got mixed up Arvin in one big bowl that is going to pass over the carbon. And we'll see about the progression of the Arvin in the in the Gamara. The Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin that Arvin that carbon alum that's brought together with the carbon alum in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin even though that particular the Arvin has two Arvin in the flower. The associated Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin did not get doubled. So I got the Gamara. You're telling me about these different Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin together. The Arvin in the Arvin the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin if it happens to be but the whole thing is the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin in the Arvin you can't mix them at all these different amounts. You're telling me that that's even Arvin you can't in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin in Arvin the way the mission flows it's clear that we only get to be the Arvin being possible at the end but until that point it was talking about the Arvin so I'm Arvin Arvin Arvin this is how you read the mission. My Arvin in Arvin in Arvin salt and the Arvin you can mix together these different Arvin from different Arvin even the Arvin if their Arvin and their Arvin are already getting mixed together. Now you can't Arvin mix the Arvin and the Arvin but if the shaman and the silas already got mixed together then you can now be my array the yain practically my array the yain and the unless the oil and the flour are already mixed up you can't mix together the wine. I bought Tanya the price of says by my room that you can't mix the power and the that's the silas the shaman I will be iron sounds like my iron and the can be my iron of the iron. So the price seems to be saying that it's more to to mix the wine even if the silas and the shaman had not yet been mixed. This is how you can reconcile the mission and the price hidden the hooker sultan the shaman in a case where the sultan and the shaman was already brought and burned down the in that case my iron and let's say the silas and the shaman had not yet been burned like the case of our mission then in this iron sultan the shaman and if it was already mixed up my iron and you can mix together the iron as well but the if the silas and the shaman had not yet gotten mixed in my iron you can't mix together the iron because silas the shaman and that we want to avoid then the mission had said the that even though the carbon mincha is doubled then the are not doubled turn around when is raining the says by this case that's brought together with the iron that it's mincha should have two lemon I am iron so you can I am iron a couple time in this iron that's the regular for even a regular case maybe I would thought that the wine should be doubled in mincha because it's not mixed together with the mincha shaman because mincha the ratio should also double. How do you actually see this from the that you are not doubling up the shaman I am because which has the end but the says that we should read it with the at the end so how do you reconcile that the mincha can the iron that my iron I am shaman I am iron I am going to stop here because it's the beginning of a new that we'll pick up a stuff so we'll stop here.