Menachos Daf 88

All right, Pesachim, acharon shel Pesach is daf and we're picking it up with a Mishnah on peh zayin amud bet. So, the last Mishnah talked about the solid measurements. Now we got the liquid measurements. As it says in the Mishnah, sheva midos shelach hayu b'Mikdash. There were seven different kinds of measures in the Beis Hamikdash and they were hin v'chatzi hin, v'shlishis hin, u'revi'is hin. And the next Mishnah later on in today's daf is going to break down exactly why they were all used. Continues the list, lug, v'chatzi lug, u'revi'is lug. Rabbi Eliezer bar Rabbi Tzadok the gomer, shnosays hayu b'hin. They didn't have lots of different little kelim for these different fractions of hins, but rather they had markers on the single hin keli. So, ad kan l'par, until this line it's going to be the nesachim that would come along with the par carbon. V'ad kan l'ayil, likewise for the ayil b'ad kan l'keves. Rabbi Shimon omer, lo haya sham hin. They didn't have a hin in the Beis Hamikdash because v'chima haya hin meshamesh? What point would there be? There was no carbon that would require a hin because it was only b'shas Moshe Rabbenu to use the hin of shemen when they made the shemen hamishcha. But since that shemen remained through all the dayrus al pinays, so there was no need to ever create that shemen again and therefore they didn't need the measurement of the hin according to Rabbi Shimon. Ela, midah y'sayrah shel lug u'mechtza haya sham. There was another keli of a lug u'mechtza. That's how you got to the number seven of different liquid measurements. Sheb'haya mayid l'minchas kayin godol for his minchas kavitin. You needed a lug u'mechtza b'boker and a lug u'mechtza b'vein ha'arbaim. Tanna Rabbanan in the braisa says, sheva midos shelach hayu b'Mikdash. There were seven different measurements, revi'is lug, chatzi lug, v'lug, u'revi'is hin, v'shlishis hin, v'chatzi hin, v'hin. That's all divrei Rabbi Yehudah. But Rabbi Meir omer the other direction, hin, v'chatzi hin, v'shlishis hin, u'revi'is hin. V'lug, v'chatzi lug, u'revi'is lug. Basically it's the same list in the opposite order. But Rabbi Shimon omer, lo haya sham hin as we said because v'chima haya hin meshamesh? Moving over to amud alef, I don't need it for any reason because they weren't making the shemen hamishcha anymore. But as me avi tachtiv, what would I use to complete the list of seven different kelim? Ela, midah y'sayrah shel lug u'mechtza haya sham. Sheb'haya mayid l'chavitei kayin. he used to split his three and that half in the morning and half in the afternoon. They asked you already had a Kayli to have a one and a half measuring tool you could do it in two parts with a and a full lug. After even according to you you shouldn't need to have to a because you have a quarter lug so you could just double the to create a and if it's used for one purpose you don't use it for another purpose skipping the parentheses my cuz it's the same list of seven they're only just going in ascending or descending order of size there is actually enough it's a little bit extra that goes above the rim of the Kayli cuz as explains when you overfill a Kayli if you quickly catch it in the next Kayli and pour it out immediately you can actually get more substance so the next Kayli that that little extra amount becomes because that little aspect is actually part of the sheer and therefore you can use it as part of the sheer from not that it's but that it is and therefore it was given a of a lug as a measurement only share shots up to Kayli make the so that all the other could also have this extra amount cuz as explains when you pour from a smaller Kayli into a larger Kayli for example the lug into the lug the extra little amount from the smaller Kayli will now transfer into the bigger Kayli rather than landing on the ground because the receiving Kayli is the larger one it can hold both so that's why the list of ascending or descending actually matters for the but according to who lists the order of the Kaylum in descending order from the biggest ones to the smallest ones because of Berutzei Midas Lane and Scotch you and therefore the Hin Yov Le Rachman Le Misha the Berutzei gave Misha Benu a Hin the Omer lay Shayer Bahod the Konafki Berutzei make the other Hishbonas using this Hin which is the largest measurement and Misha Benu's job is to figure out the half Hin the third of the Hin etc. So therefore when you're pouring from the larger Kali into the smaller Kali okay that little extra of Berutzei Midas is now going to fall out of the Kali on the ground because it's not going to transfer into the smaller Kali. So according to the mayor you don't Hishbon Berutzei Midas as part of what becomes Kadish. Abaya Omer a different shot in the Mahlikas the Kuli Alma Berutzei Hamidas he could be now in the Scotch you everybody's mask of it is in the Scotch you vehicle memory in the Scotch you and you could also say it's not in the Scotch you there is no Mahlikas about that but what are they talking arguing about? The Hacham Ben Maleem Kamiflik the word Maleem to fill it up Mandumer Mil Mal Le Mata like Remero holds that you go from the bigger Kali down to the smaller Kali in the list Kosover Maleem Sheli Haser Sheli Eiser it's got to be exact amount not to add or not to make it any less and that's why in order to accomplish that you start with the biggest Hin measurement as the model for all the others. So you pour into smaller and smaller Kalim to get the exact measurement. Umandumer Mil Mata Le Mala but according to the Bihuda holds you go into the bigger Kalim Maleem Sheli Haser when you say the word Maleem you got to fill it mean you can't have any less. Avul Eiser Maleem Karina Bay but if you add a little bit extra cuz there's now room in the newer Kali that will still be called a Kiam of Maleem and therefore that's why you start with the smaller quarter of a lug as the beginning basis for all the other Shirim. Omer Mar Rebbi Shimon Omer Lo Hoya Sham Hin there was no Hin in the Bas Hamikdash at all cuz there was no purpose for such a measurement anymore. Facting of ours the point Shaper Kamar Lehu Rebbi Shimon Le Rabbanan why would the Rabbanan even include the Hin in the first place? To which the Kamar says the Rabbanan have a Hin the oven Misha Le Shaman Amisha that was the Hin that Misha had made for the Shaman Amisha the Shaman Zais Hin. So Mair Savor according to Rebbi Shimon Kivin Dil Dairus Le Vitsark since it was never needed after that point Le Fisha Hu Davida Ve Ignaz so Misha Benu made it for one time use and then he was Ganaiz that Kali. Ve Eda Kivin Da Hava Hava according to Rebbi Huda or Rebbi Mair since there was such a measurement so they never got rid of it was in and therefore it's one of the Kaylim now in the base of Migdash. Amar Mar, "Pes me avi tachdav." What replaced, according to Rebbe Shimon, in the list of seven, the Hin? Prak the Gemara, "Le saggi de le mayil." Why do we have to replace it at all? Maybe there's only six. Prak the Gemara, "Kedo amar Ravina, kamiri sh'tei smichos b'tzibbur." There was a mesorah that there's no more than two matzos and more smichos required for a carbon tzibbur, which is a reference to the par halim dovar and the se'ir la'azazel on Yom Kippur. So, "Hachi nami kamiri d'sheva middos sh'lo chiyav Migdash." There's a mesorah on the number seven. So, no one wants to dispute that idea. So, if Rebbe Shimon is saying there was no Hin in the base of Migdash, he got to come up with something else to be mashlim the number seven. Rebbe Elazar b'Rebbe Tzadok amar, "Sh'nei s'ais chiyav b'Hin." They didn't have different Kaylim. They had one Kayli of the Hin with lots of little measuring markers on there. "Ayin v'less l'sheva middos." But, there was a mesorah that there were seven different measurements in the base of Migdash. To which the Gemara says, "Less lay." "V'hachi nami." According to him, there was no such mesorah. And therefore, according to him, you could just get away with the largest Kayli with the Hin with little marking lines all over it. "Or vi bei s'aim a different teretz." "My sheva middos" it just means "sheva mididos" seven different distinct measurements, but not seven different Kaylim. Okay, so we have the list from the last Mishnah. Now, this Mishnah is going to tell us what the each got used for. "Revi'is mayim hayisa meshames." A revi'is, which is a quarter of a lug, what was its purpose? And the answer is, "Revi'is mayim l'metzora." That's how much water you need for the process of the taharas metzora. "U'revi'is shemen l'nazir." And you also need a revi'is of shemen for the lechem that the nazir brings at the end of his nezirus. "Chatzi lug mayim hayisa meshames." What was that for? That was for chatzi lug mayim l'meisita. That's where they dissolve the Shem Hashem as part of the process of the meisita. "Chatzi lug shemen l'teida." You need a chatzi lug for the 30 lechem of matzah. That's not the schameitz, that's brought with the carbon teida. "U'lug hayisa meshames l'chol hamenachos." And the full lug, that was used for all the carbon menachos. "Afilu mincha shel shishim isarin." Even a mincha that had 60 isarin of flour, "Nosein lo shishim lug." You would just multiply that single lug 60 times. Rebbe Eliezer ben Yaakov amar, "Afilu mincha shel shishim isarin ein lo ela lug." Even if there was a huge mincha with 60 isarin of flour, it only gets one lug of the shemen. "Shenemar shall the pair. Why do I need a Kelly for Shisha Logan? That's Dr. for the Mincha and then the second that would accompany a carbon of a pair where are ball with the Mincha and the second for the island respectively. Why would I need a three and a half log Kelly for Shaman? That's Dr. for the Minera and because you need Dr. Gamora you also have a Dr. had the following Kasha reviews Lamar. What do I need a review is for? I got a big problem with the review is measurement for Dr. Because our mission suggested you needed either for the Mayan for the mid-seasons or for the shaman for the of the Nazar. But neither one of these things would need a review is all you take because turning over to it's outside the I mean the mid-seasons there's a difficult rush here because rush he says how do you call my Nickner is a difficult question why rush he would say Nickner because the mid-seasons is not just by Nickner. He's outside the whole all together. And the and maybe you want to tell me the review is is used for the Nazar which was the other thing the mission had said. The Nazar is all who the Kodesh gets its only with the of the island brings not before that point. So you wouldn't need to have any that go from a with the review is the shaman. All my lady you know what I need the review is for Shabo my dealer coin Golem review is shaman you needed that review is for each one of the of those because there were 12 every morning. So you need one and a half login for all six different comes out. It's a review is of shaman per loaf. Now if that's the case why doesn't it say so in the mission and there's an interesting mission here that says that he had forgotten this until he was reminded by later. And even though we're about to read the Gamora that was very masculine and he's going to praise but once the new the mission is he wasn't going to change them. So very similar idea that the first writes about because once people knew the of these missions and they memorize them we're not messing with them. Better to figure out the changes and missing parts later. As we said is masculine as Dr. Gamora said about here. "Me'eretz merchaq ish atzasi." That Rebbe Hiyya, who came to Eretz Yisrael from far away, he was the man. Then the Mishnah said, "Hatzi lug ma'ayan meshamesh." We said the hatzi lug is for the meiseisa, and hatzi lug shemen for the lachmei teida. "Yosef, Rebbe, vecha "Hatzi lug l'man nimshach." What's it negeia the hatzi lug? "Eis seisa d'chichun hu d'matzliach k'dushei." Is this water that is chulin that now needs to be kodesh that you would need to have it come from a kli shareis? It's not true. It's already kodesh to begin with cuz mayim kodeshim k'siv. It's coming from the kiyor already in the Beis Hamikdash. So it doesn't need noch k'dusha. And any teida, if you're telling me you need to have the hatzi lug to be makdish that oil for the lachmei teida, "Lachmei teida b'shchitas teida hu d'kajei." How does the lachmei teida become kodesh? All you do is the shchita of the korban itself, not before that. So why do I need to have this keili? "Amar lei Rebbe Shimon bar Rebbe, "Sh'bo haya machaliq hatzi lug shemen l'chol ner ner." You know why we need the hatzi lug? For each and every respective ner of the menorah. Teisa is coming up on a mena of different maskil hatzi. What's the No, why do I need to be makdish the shemen that would go into the menorah? The menorah al ein is a kli shareis. But l'maisa, this suggestion of Rebbe Shimon bar Rebbe, meaning Rebbe's son, Rebbe Shimon, made Rebbe very happy. "Amar lei," he said to his son, Rebbe Shimon, "Ner Yisrael kach haya." That's the p'shat. It seems like a pun. It's the ner Yisrael because we're talking about using the shemen for the menorah. "Amar Rebbe Aichanan amar Rebbe, "Ner she'kavsa." Let's say you have one of the neros that went out too early. Before that morning, sometime during the night time it went out. Now we're not talking about the ner maaravi, we're talking about any of the neros. "Nidasha na'shemen, nidasha na'tzila." The oil that was in it became filled with ashes from the wick, or the wick maybe itself turned into ash. Point is you couldn't really use the wick anymore. So keitzad eisah? What do you do in such a matziv? "Meitiv avan eisav shemen umadlika." You clean out the ner, you do the hatava, and you put new oil in and a new wick, and you light it up. "Yosef, Rebbe's reish kava k'mei boilei." "K'shu eisav shemen." When you put the new oil into this ner that had gone out, so how much? "K'mida rishona o k'misha chasra?" Do you put in the same amount that originally was put in meaning an entire lug, or you only match on that which was missing the matter of oil that's now missing from it the original for sure have to put in the original amount of the full the only supposed to be that which was missing how would you be able to be exactly how much is missing you're going to try to measure the missing amount of oil then we don't have enough because you only have seven different measuring tools not official to but you need many more that's the case must be you're going to add the complete of oil to which really like that from so he said about him but the MS I know what so he used that to tell him to say something nice about him it might not be near the oil the way it can turn into ashes no good what do you do now it's you put in the original amount of oil of that you break everyone of the meaning each one of those lamps those bowls in the they were meaning they were bendable they could be bent downward cleaned up and then straightened back up kind of amazing to think about it that way cuz the other option would be that you can actually take it apart you could you could just kind of pop it off and then clean it and put it back on afterwards but that's not how it is in these saying it rather they was flexible because it comes down to how you understand the cuz keep guard the needing a which is this big block of gold and hammering it out that's if it's going on the and it's and therefore you can't remove it it's part of that one so to me by a since it needs to have a you love to if it's not the fact that it's pliable and bendable low they couldn't possibly clean it properly from the following how do you clean out the of the you take them off and you put them into the and you wipe it with a sponge. You put the oil and then you light them up. So clearly they're detachable. So who did Tanya a different price is when they were cleaning out the they would not move it from its place. That kind of sounds like if you wanted to move it you would have been able to move it. I can't be because if that was the case why don't they just take them off to clean them. So must be that physically it couldn't be detached. So means that the of this price are going to argue with the who holds that the nearest were removable. Who is this sheet that the price is saying is calling the Ruby is the Tanya Ruby is like a golden plate on top of each one of the different as describes each one had a shape of like a boat. It was like a oblong wide body where the would go and had a thinner narrower area where the wick was put and it was a gold plate that was like a cover on top of each one of these different areas to get from going into it. So the when one of them would clean out one of the they would push the shows of towards its towards that narrow edge where the wick would stick out which would expose the main interior of the and then they bend down that to clean it out. And when they would put the into the they would push that little back towards the but they never actually removed the itself. The ball itself stayed put. So you see the that price is going to be from that's the who looked at the and the were discussing a really going like this existing other the because the price is they all came from that same big block of gold. But the other the tongs these little spoons they were not from that ribbon but the boys it's all about the the Tanya the price is says kicker is tahor ya'aseh oisah l'matai l'minorah sh'b'nei hakikar." We learn that the menorah comes from that kikar of gold. "Min ha'lo rav ish neiroseiha d'ein lo kol kodesh ba'ah." "Tom l'meimar eis kol ha'keilim ha'eilah." So "Yachol sh'neimar ba'av malchoseha u'machtoseha." All those other keilim "Tom l'meimar eis dafka it." Meaning the menorah and its neiros they were "R' Nechemia." Perfect gemara. Kasha d'R' Nechemia d'R' Nechemia. The earlier braysa says that R' Nechemia holds that the neiros did not come from the kikar. But here he's saying the neiros are part of the kikar. So it's "l'fi mar d'trei tanai v'al liba d'R' Nechemia." Back to the braysa. "R' Yehoshua ben Korcha omer min menorah b'nei hakikar." The menorah itself comes from the kikar. "D'ein malchoseha u'machtoseha v'neiroseiha bo'in min hakikar." "V'eilu ma ani m'kayem kol ha'keilim ha'eilah?" "She'hayu keilim shel zahav." That they all would be made of pure gold, but not that they all had to come from that same kikar of zahav. "Frek d'gemara zahav b'heichan ba'i?" I know that they're gold, I don't need a drasha for that. "B'asisi neiroseiha shivah ha'eilu neiroseiha ha'eir al eiver paneha u'malchoseha u'machtoseha zahav tahor." So I don't need another makor to tell me that the keilim have to be made of gold. So the gemara says, "L'nitzrachah l'fi neiros." The reason why R' Yehoshua ben Korcha needed to have this drasha is to teach you that the pi neiros, the area where the wick is put, that also has to be made out of gold. Because "Al kidei d'chaminah ha'ilu pi neiros ashchurim mashchei." But myse that area is going to get black. So perhaps "a teira choshech umamein she'yisrael" that it shouldn't be made out of gold. Moving over to "Amud Aleph." "V'lo oved zahav kal d'hu." And you can use it from the cheaper kind of quality gold because it's going to get ruined anyway. "Kamashma lan d'teira says it's got to be used with the same kind of pure level of gold." R' Berazner spoke out, I think it was from the sidrei taharah, an interesting point that you see that there's a machlokes tanai'im whether or not the neiros can be removable from the menorah. So by you and some of us have very nice fancy silver menorahs, but we don't actually put the oil into the silver. We put it into glass cups that sit inside of our silver menorah. So one could l'cheira make the point that maybe we're not doing the nine mitzvah on our menorah at all because you're really putting your ner of Chanukah into a glass bowl. L'masha, let's say I have a silver table and you put a bunch of glass cups on it. You're going to say that your nine mitzvah of the silver is negaya? No, it's just a support and a basis for your glass cups. But clearly, you see from this Sugya that the menorah is part of it even if it's detachable. That's an interesting Nekuda, and that is that. Okay, folks, we managed to do it. We got our Daf Yomi done for second day's Yom Tov. So, B'ezrat Hashem, we'll see you again Isru Chag.