Menachos Daf 84

All right, I get married. I've paid dollar. Perhaps paid dollar is Milos and Pad bean. But anyway, we get to start the new perek picking it up at the Mishnah on page Gimel Midbase. Kol Carbonos Hat Tzibur Va'Yachid. The ingredients that go into all these different Menachos for all kinds of Carbonos Tzibur and Yachid are buying Mincha Aretz U'Mincha Lar. It doesn't matter where the grains come from, inside or outside Eretz Yisrael, they're all okay. And also Mincha Chadash U'Mincha Yashan. There's no limitation on Chadash or Yashan when it comes to regular Menachos. Chutz, except for Mincha Omer and Shtei Lechem. The Omer brought on Pesach and the Shtei Lechem brought on Shavuos because those She'einan Ba'in Ela Mincha Chadash U'Mincha Aretz. They have to come from Chadash to get grain. The Omer certainly is coming from Chadash and also the Shtei Lechem on Shavuos because the pasuk says Reishis Ketzirchem, also has to come from Chadash. And also they have to come from grain that grew in Eretz Yisrael. U'Chulin Einan Ba'in Ela Mincha Muvechar. All Menachos, no matter whether or not they're Chadash or Yashan, have to be from the best quality grain. That's the Muvechar. Be'Eretz Yisrael Muvechar She'Leman. What's considered the Muvechar? It's the It's the flour that's from locations called Machnes V'Zichuta Alfalfa the Silos. So if it's from Machnes V'Zichuta or the Alfalfa the Silos, that's the expression of the best flour. And Shni Lechem, the runner-up to that is going to be Afaraim B'Vik'as. And Kol Ha'Aretzos Ha'Yuchsharos, really every place would be kosher Ela Mi'Chan Ha'Yum Vi'Ein. So everywhere in Eretz Yisrael is technically okay, but you want to get the best stuff and these are the locations of the best stuff. Now when this Mishnah says Kol Ha'Aretzos Ha'Yuchsharos, all the lands in Eretz Yisrael, there's a very important couple words here in Rashi where Rashi says K'Goy Yehuda V'Eiver Ha'Yarden D'Ha'Golah Yuchsharos. Eiver Ha'Yarden and Golil is considered Eretz Yisrael. This is very not pushit. K'Veger seems to be bothered by the Eiver Ha'Yarden, be aware of that Rashi. So up to Gemara, Masnisan D'Leikei Aitana. Our Mishnah does not seem to be going like this other Tanna D'Tanya. Omer Ha'Ba Min Ha'Yashan is kosher and Shtei Lechem Ha'Ba'im Min Ha'Yashan is also ksheiras. Ela She'Chisra Mitzvah, you just didn't do it L'Chatchila. But our Mishnah implies that it's Ma'akev. You have to do it from Chadash whereas this Braisa seems like it's okay if it's even from Yashan. What's the reason why the Braisa would say B'Di'eved it's kosher? Because Omer is going to be kosher from Yashan D'Chasiv Takrivus minchas bikurim which sounds like a feeling in Aliyah even if it's coming from your attic meaning stored away and if it's yashan it still be okay and kosher. And likewise this is minchas bikurim but but minchas bikurim a feeling in Aliyah we can dash in that minchas bikurim doesn't matter where it's come from even if it's min Aliyah so it can be yashan. You already used this pasuk to tell me that the can't come from outside of Eretz Yisrael so how do you learn from this pasuk that you can use yashan? Everything in Aliyah cuz to view that a feeling in Aliyah. Well practically I mean I mean I need a to view shokol shata maybe mimokem acher you kaze that anything that's similar that you bring from another place is like this which is a different halacha that the chametz lechem have one issaron of flour per challah. So that halacha we're using the to view from and not to be matter of the yashan. So I'm saying if you're telling me it's only telling you one halacha to view not to view. Okay so you're saying you can use yashan for the omer and the shtei halechem. I have racious which sounds like has to be from chodesh it's racious new crop. And the gemara limits it it's only limits it to do it but yashan will be okay. I have chodesh by the shtei halechem it says in the pasuk the word chodesh which certainly implies chodesh cuz I mean look at the tanya and chodesh for the other halacha. There will be nothing people shtei halechem are boys and money chodesh shtei chodesh lechol mincha'is which is the halacha that you can't bring any other carbon mincha until the shtei halechem were brought right as we know the omer is matter of the chodesh for regular consumption by the masses but the shtei halechem is matter for the carbonus so that's chodesh lechol mincha'is. Okay so the gemara ad kan le plig ela be chodesh. The machlokes tanoyim between the mishna and these braisos is only about chodesh moving over to men aleph al ba'aretz le plig but there's no machlokes whether or not they have to come from in or outside of Eretz Yisrael. The omer shtei halechem me'aretz ein michutz la'aretz lo. But that's not so pasht. Come on who's it going like that has to come from Eretz Yisrael? Look at the gemara the likey the tanya cuz we learned in a braisa Rebbi Asi Rebbi Yehuda omer omer ba' michutz la'aretz you can bring omer for the omer from outside of Eretz Yisrael. Mani mikanke se'orim l'aretz, which sounds like you got to bring the omer from the barley that grew in Eretz Yisrael. So, we darshan sh'lo in the chiyuv b'omer kedem she'nichnas l'aretz. It just tells us that they were never mechuyav in the omer before they came to Eretz Yisrael. But, even once they came into Eretz Yisrael, they could use the se'orim grown outside of Eretz Yisrael. Now, how do I know that you can use the se'orim grown outside of Eretz Yisrael? Because of the chodesh b'chuza l'aretz d'oraisa. The Beis Yosef holds that chodesh is issur of chodesh in chutz l'aretz is a din d'oraisa. Tichsev mishvei'seichem kol makom she'atem yoshvim mashma, wherever you live, even in chutz l'aretz. B'chiyuvo, that's a reference to z'man bi'ah when you come to Eretz Yisrael. And now here comes the punchline. V'chiyuvo d'oraisa, and since the issur of chodesh is a din d'oraisa outside of Eretz Yisrael, akruvei nami makrivin, therefore you can bring the omer from chutz l'aretz as well. You're telling me the whole thing is on a d'oraisa level outside of Eretz Yisrael, so the heter, meaning the barley you're going to bring for the carbon omer itself, can also come from chutz l'aretz. Now, from this gemara, it should seem pretty clear that there should be the issur d'oraisa on chodesh. And of course, it's a big mystery why we're not really makpid on the issur chodesh. As a whole, Klal Yisrael is very meikel about it. The Shulchan Aruch is pretty clear that there still is b'zman hazeh an issur of chodesh even in chutz l'aretz. But, the Rama famously gives us a heter, although it's a very challenging Rama to understand, because the Rama says it's mutar mi'tam s'feik s'feika. One safek is if it's a safek from this year or from last year's grain, and it's also a second safek whether or not it took root before this month. And there's two major problems with this Rama. First of all, we're not really so mesupak when these things grew. Especially today, we know a lot of information, so we can know for a fact that this grew after this month and it's chodesh. And the second problem with this Rama is, even if you want to agree that we're mesupak about when it grew, why would you call it a s'feik s'feika? L'chora, those are two s'feikos of the same safek. Is it or is it not chodesh? Whether or not it grew before then or whether or not it took root before then is the same safek. Very challenging Rama. There's a famous kula from the Bach that perhaps we're samech on and the Aruch Hashulchan Aruch wants to say based on an Or Zarua that all of Chodosh in Chutz La'aretz is only Issur D'Rabbanan. But there definitely plenty of people who are Makpid on the Issur of Chodosh even today in Chutz La'aretz. When I was living in cross country when I first got married, Rav Tzvi and his Rebbetzin were in town for a Simcha, and I bumped into him after Davening was over Shabbos day, and I asked him if he would want to eat by us for Shaleshudes. And he said okay. My wife was standing nearby, and he turned to my wife and asked her if she baked the Challahs herself. Now, of course, what he wanted to know was because he was being Makpid on Chodosh. So he wanted to know if it was store bought Challah or if it was Challah made from her own flour that he could do the follow up question about when the flour was from. But my wife understood it to mean that Rav Tzvi was asking if she had fresh Challah or if it was store bought Challah, and and she immediately became very apologetic. No, usually she makes her own Challah, this time she bought Challah. It's just very funny, uh, the misunderstanding of the question. Because the first week he could care less what kind of Challah she was going to serve for Shaleshudes. Okay, anyway, Zog the Gemara, Tnan Hasam, the Mishna in the fourth perek of Shkalim says, "Shomrei Sefichin B'Shvi'is." The people who would watch the Sefichin. Sefichin are things that grow on their own, that you don't plant. But they had Shomrei Sefichin, essentially guards that were set up to make sure that people would not, or at least the Aniyim would not take that which grew on their own, so they would have enough barley for the Korban Omer. So those Shomrei Sefichin B'Shvi'is were Nitlan S'charan Mi'Trumas Ha'Lishka. They got to be paid from public funds because the Ma'aser they were working for the community. Now, over here this one line, I mean, it's not really the Sugya, but you can see this long big Tosafos that discusses it. L'Chora, if you watch your Shvi'is produce, it might Assur the actual T'ruah. In Sukkah on Lamed Tes in Rashi, at the very end of Maseches Beitzah, Rashi makes it clear that if you actually do guard your Peiros Shvi'is, it does not Assur the Peiros. But the Rabbeinu Tam assumes it will Assur the Peiros. So the Rabbeinu and the Rabbeinu Tam brings lots of Rayos to that over here. And in which case, it should not be Mashkeh Yisrael. How do you bring as a Korban something that you're not allowed to eat? brings multiple T'ruos, maybe it's not really a full Shmira, maybe just telling people that we want to use this for Korbanos, but not actually physically preventing them from taking these things, maybe that's not called a true Shmira, and there's are other two roots in, but that's this side sugia over here about the shaimrais viachim bishviis. Anyway, back to our show. Practicing Gemara. Romi lay, Romi bar Chama to Rav Chisda. It's kind of a funny expression here. Romi bar Chama showed a stira to Rav Chisda because tonight we learned in the Mishnah that shaimrais viachim bishviis nightlands charen metrumas alishka, but veraminu the braisa says lo achal uval lo yisraifa that you can't use the peiros shviis for anything but eating. It has to be lo achal, but you can't burn it. But the chaimits of every carbon omer is burned on the mizbeach. So how are you allowed to use this sifeich shviis even though you're using it for sraifa? So amar lay Rav Chisda says back to Romi bar Chama, Rachmana amar loch l'day raisecha. Yiad amar tipotal. The Torah gave us a mitzvah in perpetuity to always do and you want to say that you're mevatel it every seven years for shmita? So in other words, that's the suras hamitzvah in the Torah. Use this for your carbon omer. So amar lay Romi bar Chama re-explains his question to Rav Chisda. Umika amina anati batal? Did I actually suggest that the omer should be cancelled? No, laisi midai shtaka. You can't use the chadash, but because of the fact we have a sifeich shmita problem, bring the carbon omer. But bring it from stock that's yashan from the previous year. To which Rav Chisda says back, no, cuz it's bein a caramel. It's got to be fresh. The Torah says you have to have it be caramel. V'lecha, I mean it won't be if it's from the previous year. Fact Romi bar Chama v'laisi me caramel dishtakan. What? So bring fresh stuff from last year. I mean it doesn't have to be like eight years old. It was just a couple months ago. It could still be fresh. No, because amar chro caramel takrif that bein a caramel bishas hakrova. It has to be fresh at the time of the hakrova. V'lecha, it won't be fresh anymore come Nissan. So l'chora, we have to use this sifeich shmita for the carbon omer. More about bringing the omer from yashan. Itmar Rav Yehoshua ben Levi amar caramel takrif. Rav Elozar amar reishis ktzirchem which we darshin reishis ktzirchem v'lo yisof ktzircha. The first of your kotzir, the first of your harvest, not the end. Meaning when you bring the carbon omer should be the first cutting from which it comes. So you can't bring from last year's crop because that's already no longer the reishis ktzircha. Meiseiv Raba. Raba said based on the following braisa v'im takriv minchas bikurim when you bring the mincha of your bikurim the minchas omer achos midaber. So the braisa wants to know what kind of grain are we using for this carbon I mean where is this carbon coming from it's been from barley so is this the unique barley or maybe this is like regular like most carbon so really is this in reference to the barley that it was ripe in reference to the carbon we make the have that's why I know that the carbon is made up of and because I can say but can bring his carbon from or maybe what's the that's he has to bring that's the one of the and that's brought maybe from could bring its from if you're telling me that the is brought from we're never going to find we're never going to find that having the parallel from barley so must be the which is the carbon is brought from the barley from the how do I know that the carbon comes from if you're going to suggest that the carbon brought from are not going to be the first fruits they're not to be so it must be that the has to come from and so now we're finally coming to all of you see from here that the whole reason has to have is because they are the and therefore they have to be brought from the first of that year's crop and likewise the which also has a element has to be the first cutting and therefore it's a doesn't really seem like such a strong because he has a different but that's what the feels tonight we learned in the first and the only from turning over to me tomorrow not from these dates that are in the mountains which are not the most tomorrow Well, let me perish about not the grains that are grown in the valley. Also, not the best. If you brought any of this inferior stuff as the bikurim, it won't work when he designates this as bikurim. It says in carbon rashes that the is called a rashes. It's the first bikurim carbon. It should be the first of the carbon from all the new perish from that year. It's only a marker that the has to be the first of any of How do I know that the which you bring on the second day has to be the first for any new siren? It says it twice. So, must be to know siren. Now, how do I know that the has to be the first thing before the bikurim comes? Because otherwise, maybe the bikurim of the grain can be brought before the There's not the case. How do I know that the before the bikurim of the new barley? For that, I'm only going to know about the that has to be before the bikurim of things that you had actually planted. But, from where do I know that they have to be before the bikurim of things that grew on their own? Even if it wasn't actually planted, but it grew on its own. The rabbis should be all these other locations. It'll also be It'll be called Everything's called bikurim. And therefore, the has to precede all the bikurims, no matter what. to precede all those new kinds of carbonis, including the and when we say The Paris Hilton we're talking about the tamarind and the zaysim that they shouldn't be brought as become before that day because I can't be Malala in the second African Paris Hilton. Okay, but now we're going to finally ask on Tony me all those other locations that the proceed those kinds of become it sounds like even the Zion meaning that they can also become become so those dates from the mountains or the heat and from the bigger should also become kosher become can never will I had said that you can't make these things into become and for the mercy when the price was talking about was talking about it wasn't talking about the mask of Laura the if you're telling me that the end of that price is only talking about not talking about how do they call everybody was talking to me that we learned in the last half of the previous period they can only be eaten by the so it can't be talking about because the saying everybody can eat it must be become armor of trade there's two different things in the to deal with the here which is referring to the receipt called Harvey even not just the men but even the women can eat what's it talking about and then I can have you break up the time with both topics everything's about the safety to cross because by the besides the even his wife and his kids and his can also take from those and this is whether or not these inferior dates and grains can be made into become is the result of the it's really like a but it's saying this really is but I don't remember it doesn't work as become but I'm going to have you now it's like a animal that you bring for that it works it's just not so now I guess it's like a carbon but my time why just because this is inferior you cannot make it into become armor of Ruby has a I saw in a dream milk therefore I know I'm going to say I good to work today and to know whether or not seeing in a dream is actually a reason to make up sock? I'll go upon him. He felt confident about the drasha. Omar brought me races. We know become after be the races from the first. The light coal races but not all of those are fruits. Meaning there's a mirror to somewhere. And may arts from your land the light coal arts. So practically I'm a marble race lucky I'm a race may have a light. What is race lucky who holds it really become can come from everywhere. What kind of a mirror does he use from the light coal arts? We understand what he did about the first part. But the races but what is about the arts? I think we're going to boil it and look at the tiny different that are more likely about Rabbi Meir never come with never come my little schwach eretz. Just like that the terrorists talking about the schwach Israel but the Zion meaning of schwach he's using this over to tell you the kinds of pears that you actually do bring for your become. And what about Rabbi so the arts may arts. So he used the extra men to dash in that to find out the same either arts may arts like mash Malay. And this is what we're going to pick up a tiny harder for Monday's staff.