Menachos Daf 64

All right, today's daf dalid Monday's daf. We get to start a new peric today. If you look in the mishnas, this peric is actually the 10th per, not the sixth per. We're going to learn all about the carbon mah that's brought specifically on the second day of pes, which is the we talk about what happens if the second day of pes falls out on shabas. When you're supposed to bring that, what do you do in the beginning of the parish? That carbon that you bring on Shabas in a year of when Tesin Nissan falls in on Shabas is brought from Scholish Sin three different saw of barley that when processed yield a single isern of this fine flour that you need for the carbon if the second day of Pes falls out on a weekday now you're not contending with Shabas so you can bring the to process from five but whether it comes out on Shabas or a weekday doesn't matter. You always work with to generate your silus. Similarly on shabas theim that they were kiter in order to minimize the amount of being done. It was done by a single person and with one tool with one sickle and it was put into one basket. If it falls out on a weekday then three people can be involved. Bashesh kuples. As we're going to see in the gamura, it was important to make a lot of pomp and circumstance for the carbon to aukim who held that you always do it on the first Sunday was literal because they didn't believe in uncle whether it's shabas or So now the is going to go back to our first that according to it makes a difference if falls out on a weekly shabas whether or not you use whereas according to it doesn't matter you always use three so according to since the isarn of flour that you're trying to yield from the three of barley and that's actually the best way to do it you only need three s to yield that is for Why does he make a shabas and if he holds that the best quality of the isarn comes from five saw then you should also on shabas cut five in order to yield that same is if you're telling me that the best way to yield that is in a flower comes from three then you should always only use three why would I ever go to five soar to get that is of the best quality flour it'll come from five of barley without the if you work really hard at it meaning if you run it through the sieve more often over and over again which is a more you could do it with three saw of barley so if falls out on a weekday we make the from five because the because you'll get a better product with a more flour because it's coming from now the fivesaw which we're saying is going to be better but if falls in shabas work with three because it's best that you should do only one of the sething rather than going and getting five saw which is going to require other malas as Rashi says you're going to need more kira and zera for those additional two so of barley so best to do that one mala of harata multiple times so this idea that we want to minimize the amount of kil shavas the garamar is going to try to now put together the with other they said the same thing why now we're not talking about we're talking about this pes that falls out on shabas which the calls pes so here I am doing the carbon pes so the is it's shabas and one would think I want to minimize the amount of shabas so just skin the animal until you can get to the inards of the animal to put them on the misbeh Don't do more than you need to. That's don't worry about it. Sounds like a kind of an issue, but you could just keep on doing the whole thing. So, where you can minimize the amount of onus even though there's a mitzvah bring the carbon, but yeah, only do the absolute minimum requisite amount as more than you need to. says, "You can't put those two different together." Why? Because by the Rashi says moving over to a sphere maybe that you should complete the process of the say the opposite way over there by the carbon that you shouldn't do more than you need to because you've already been the There's no necessity to do this but by the silus that you're trying to yield from the where you're not really doing the mitzvah properly if you only take it from three and therefore you need to do more in order to be who would allow you to take all five just like on a weekday to yield that best flower. Okay. So let's find a different about minimizing the So we could put together that you try to minimize as much as possible but also we say maybe only wanted to say that you shouldn't do more than three because we only want to have all this pomp and circumstance in order to be able to knock out the busim. But there's no more publicity by doing the two extra. So better to minimize by but by having more people doing the where there's going to be a bigger PR move than if you only had the one person doing. I could also say this is just like the last idea because you're doing it more properly. the amount of that's taking place is going to affect whether or not you're maybe that in order to be doesn't matter if even if it comes out in chabas cut as much as you need. So the is going to give us a third says whether or not everyone was able to see the new moon just go. If it's bright and clear that you can see the moon that means other people can also see the moon. So I shouldn't be shabas now. So we could put together to minimize whenever you don't need to. Might not. We give up on this one too because our is going to limit to only cutting three of barley because there's no potential in the future because people are going to say I don't need to either go because other people are going to go maybe nobody's going to go maybe who would allow those to travel on says there's only an idea of when it comes Not by And therefore if there is no to get that perfect flower from the five should be to the end of we never really seem to put for sure with any of these other let's say two different but Rashi gives us an example what the case might be. Let's say it's Yumptiff that fell out on a shabas and instead of bringing the one that he's supposed to first carbon he brings two. So the second time he shas he's being shabas. So that second carbon that he wasn't supposed to he's now being. And if he did thinking that he was supposed to bring it now he's to bring for that of that second carbon but he's not for havinged that first one because that's what he was supposed to do. Even if the second one actually works like for example as Rashi says maybe it was nishbar that means after now he'sed that second one the first dam of the first animal now was nishb so he now needs that second animal as his actual carbon for yiff and therefore when we take a step back and look at it did he really do anything wrong with that of the second one doesn't matter he's still and even if that first animal turned out to be which is ava carbon as rashi brings from the mali ofu that we want to always do the mitzvah in a proper way with a gishmaka product and if it's a kusha it's not the right way to bring the carbon it's interesting how rashi brings this pk it's actually brought by the beer in some ene it's it's already turning and the brewer says that may even be and in the beer it brings from our rashi here in that if rash is willing to sue the to say you can't bring a it could also possibly mean for other products that are less than favorable like your smelly wine that might be in your kdesh. But just again to reiterate, Rob is telling us that if the person brought that second carbon katus when he shouldn't have even if retroactively turns out that it got used or the first one was never good to begin with, but he still he's for bringing that second carbon katus because he wasn't allowed to bring it. You got two animals that are designated to be carbon, but only one of them was needed as a he did the fat one like he's supposed to illegally for the second one. But if he brought the first one which was and then he brought the not only is he going to be putter for bringing the afterwards that was what he's supposed to do even though he'd already brought the because it's a terrible thing to bring the when you had the okay so let's say that never said his of when that first animal was it wasn't it So there's no steer either. Let's say that first animal after the second animal, you found out that the first animal had internal issues. In other words, you thought it was a but somehow once you checked it out afterwards, it turns out that it was problematic. It was so ma are you still going to be putter for the second one. The guy didn't know that he was off the hook. He didn't realize that it was so because he didn't know that he was doing the right thing and is still going to be allowed because because he's still allowed to bring this kind of a carbon on but he was doing a that other people would know would be and if we found out later on that his messa was taka because they found out the first animal was then he didn't do anything wrong so isn't this the same sack of rava demar Let's say someone hears that a child is drowning. wanted to catch the fish. Laales dug him. Let's say he went to go catch fish. Vela dog, but he la saved the kid. Rob, but Rob putter Rabbi Zilberstein in a different context had a very similar kind of a fun shil about the guy who steals a car by breaking the window and then drives away in the car. And while he's driving away in the car, he realizes that there's a kid in the back seat who the owner accidentally left sleeping in the car and the car was overheating. And the child might have died had it not been for this gun stealing the car. But when the gunf caught, the owner of the car was demanding payment for the broken window. Meanwhile, the guy of saying, "I saved your kid for crying out loud." It's a similar kind of a shiloh since he heard the kid was drowning. We can assume that when he was spreading out the net, he was also thinking about the kid. But if he didn't hear any kid crying out, he's not going to be putter and raba would agree to rava that even though lisa he did a maetra of saving a child, he still be because of the fact that he intended to catch fish. You see that even according to Raba, we look at the person's not the practical outcome of what happened. Vik there's another lotion of what Raashi said that Omar said back to Rava. This is goofy the issue that Rob and Roa are discussing according to Rashi's gear said there's no lawy here. Let's say the guy hears he hears the kid crying out but he spreads out the net to catch the fish and he only catches fish. Let's say he went to go catch fish on chops and now lo and behold he saves a kid. So that's a different lotion which is very similar. Let's say a person is sick and they are going to die if they don't eat this gregaras. 10 different people brought 10 gregorous at the same time. Peturin, all of them, even though they each did malas on Shabas of carrying or pulling it off the tree, whatever mal they did, they're all going to be putter. It's like if 10 guys show up on Shabas, all of them are going to be put for the Shabasu. Even if they only came one after the other even if the sick person already got healed from the first fig bringinger all of them are always going to be putter which seems like we're always going to go bust the where they were not trying to be shabas even though the reality is that they didn't do anything helpful if a person is shot that they got to eat these two gregoras and you've got two figs on two different on two stems which would we understand would require two different shavas and I've got three figs on a single step. Which one do we want to bring? Do we want to take two figs because they're both roy for him and therefore you're not doing any extra beyond what he needs to come by cutting the one stem even though you're yielding more than he needs cuz he got three. Maybe that's the better way to go. This is of course negate to the whole big suguran could remind ourselves about the run in ba on dessays and daff about the between shabas and yumpt then on chabas there's a problem marbash but there isn't on yumpt because it's more hutra but anyway argamar says better to bring the three different figs that are on the one stem turning over to bay when we're trying to create the isern of the flower for the when you're the if you would how much of the you're needing to yield. You'd also be in the case of if you give this guy less figs to eat, you're actually doing more of a better to bring three different figs and only do one maternity. When you bring the barley for the carbon of the R, do it from the place closest to your shal. We'll see in the what the mucker is for that. Let's say if what was closest to wasn't totally ripe then maybe you can bring it from wherever you need to in the came from that location and the wheat for the came from this location of which Rashi tells us we're very far away from now what's the being close to my why do we care about where the location of the barley is so caramel which Rashi says we look at the word caramel which is used in the pa and we say that's coming from the words of rah and mull that's soft and crushable which Rashi says if you're going to bring it from far away it's going to get hardened on the road so we got to make sure it's got to stay fresh or mitzvah so you do it from the closest location so you shouldn't pass by a closer field that's near Jerusalem so then the mission said came from this location so what happened what was the story behind that were fighting one with the And every day the ones were inside and they couldn't get out because of the siege. They would lower the dinarim over the wall in a koopa in a basket and they would bring up the to bring us the carbon. So there was a on the inside who knew the doesn't mean the language but he knew a way to communicate with the solemma. So this Benedict Arnold over here was communicating to the besieur with this you're never going to win this war. doing their so when the people inside were lowering the regular basket of money those who were looking to stop the sent up it stuck its hooves into the wall the whole country shook said you can't raise any period you can't learn that the came from this location called now when the time came to bring that carbon they didn't know where that barley was going to come from so they announced anybody know where we can get barley let us know also rashi says it was a mute who wasab he couldn't speak he put one hand on a roof on the other hand he put on a on a hut. So he was doing the strange thing and Omaru Morai Morai of Purim fame asked the other there is there a location and they actually found a place. So lo and behold the guy who couldn't speak actually was able to tell them where to bring the barley from when they wanted to bring they didn't know where they could bring the wheat from. So they made an announcement. Anybody knows let us know. Another mute guy came is a different mute. Put one hand on his eye on his eyes and the other hand he put on a door socket which is a so once again came to the rescue over here and explained what's going on and they found such a location. They were able to get their wheat for the We're going to stop here and pick it up with tomorrow's stuff with Hanulesh.