Menachos Daf 105

All right, Duff cook hey, as Sunday's Duff as we begin this final week of maseches menachos and we get to begin this perek, the final perek on kuf dalet amud beis. Zuk the Mishnah, hare olai isaron. If somebody says, "I'm going to bring a singular isaron." But he doesn't have any other details that he remembers. Now we got to figure out how much should he bring? So the halacha is, as you can imagine, yavi yachid, he brings a mincha of one isaron. The gemara is going to want to know what the chidush is. Esrei nais, if he says I'm going to bring plural amounts, well, what's the minimum amount he has to bring? Yavi shnayim. Peirash'ti, I made the commitment to bring a mincha and I know I said a certain number of isronos, but I don't remember. Ve'eini yada ei'zeh me'hen peirash'ti. So the halacha is yavi chamish'tin. You got to bring all five of them cuz you got to make sure you're mikayim it. Now, payrashti mincha shalayim, let's say I promised to bring a mincha of a certain number of esranim. V'eini yada kama payrashti, I don't remember how many esranim I promised. And the implication here is that you wanted to bring all those esranim in a single kayli. So, the halacha is yavi shishim misarim. You bring one particular mincha of 60 sarin. Rebbe Eimer, no. Yavi mincha shalayim esranim may echad v'ad shishim. You bring every permutation. You bring one and then you bring another one of two and then another one of three all the way up to 60. Zog te gemara, that first halacha that if a guy says he's going to bring an esran, obviously you bring a singular esran. Pshita. And the gemara no, cuz esranim yavi shnayim is trechli. The fact that when you say esranim you got to bring two, that's the chidush. Well, honami pshita frech te gemara. No, because there's a chidush there. Me'at esranim shnayim is its trechli. The fact that the minimum amount of esranim only can be two, which ta doesn't sound like such a chidush, but that is a chidush that you don't have to actually bring the maximum amount of 60, but you only have to bring that minimum of two. Then the mishna had said payrashti v'eini yada kama payrashti. I said a certain number of esranim, but I just don't remember what I said. So, the halacha is yavi shishim misarim. You got to bring a carbon mincha that has 60 esranim in it. It's a Montana. Who's that tanna? Because this second case of the mishna is really the same as the last case in the mishna when the guy says I did make a mincha of esranim, but I just don't remember how many esranim I said. And over there it's machlokes Rebbe and the tanna kama where in that case Rebbe actually argues with the tanna kama and holds that you have which you have to bring 60 different permutations of one and then two and then three all the way to 60. Whereas the tanna kama says you could just bring one single mincha of 60 esranim. So, now the gemara wants to know Montana, this second halacha in the mishna, who from those two tannaim at the end of the mishna is going to be this tanna? So, amar Chizkiya dilayka Rebbe. It's not Rebbe cuz the eeka Rebbe. Amar yavi mincha shalayim esranim may echad v'ad shishim. Rebbe holds you have to bring every permutation. In which case we're going to assume Rebbe would also hold over here that this is just not shitas Rebbe. It's only going to be the tanna kama. But Rebbe Chanina amar no, Because we're talking about a case bo eimer payrashti esranim where the person said I definitely said a certain number of esranim. Aval lo ikavatem bakli, but I just didn't say they have to be brought in a single Kaylee, which is the case of what happened at the end of the mission. Because therefore the my season is right nice to be season money. Therefore you can bring 60 Isrealites in 60 different Kaylee, meaning one Isrealite in each Kaylee, because that will take care of every possible combination of potential Nadarim. But at the end of the mission up when he did say he was going to bring them all in a single Kaylee, therefore you have to bring 60 different kinds of Minachois that range from one to 60. Then the mission said Haray Alay Mincha Yavi Ays Asher Yavi. That's it. But Rebbi Yehuda had argued and said you bring a Mincha Sailus because that's the Muchedis Sheba Minachois. Tana we learned in the Braisa Hoylu Pasach Bakosif Trila. Do you know why it's the Muchedis? Because it's the first one. We start off talking about Mincha Sailus in the Parsha Minachois. Right the Gemara. That's the requirement for the Muchedis because it's first Il Mayata. Hoymer Haray Alay Oyla and you don't say what kind of Oyla. It should be Yavi Ben Bakar. Hoylu Pasach Bakosif. That's the first one the Torah talks about when in the Parsha of Oylas. Moving over to Min Aleph Trila. And likewise Min Had Tzein Yavi Kevis. Hoylu Pasach Bakosif Trila. And Min Ayif Yavi Tayrim. Hoylu Pasach Bakosif Trila. But I love Matnan that's not the case because we're going to learn soon in the Mishna on Kuf Zion that if you say Haray Alay Oyla Stam Yavi Kevis. And Rebbi Elazar Ben Azarya Oymer Tar Oy Ben Yeyna. But Rebbi Polig Rebbi Yehuda and Rebbi Yehuda doesn't argue with those Tanaim. So clearly it can't be that we don't say the Mincha Sailus is the reason because it was first in the Parsha. Ela Min Muchedis Sheba Minachois is the Less Lay Shem Lavay. It doesn't have a specific name. In other words, Stam Mincha means a Mincha Sailus. Minchas Marcheshes or Minchas for Piteen. Whatever you have any of these if you have any of these other additional names, okay, then you'll then you have to speak it out. But if you just Stam say Mincha it's going to refer to a Minchas Sailus. Right the Gemara. Tana Hoylu Pasach Bakosif Trila Komar. The Tana said in the Braisa that the reason for Rebbi Yehuda is because the Torah says it first. Not because of the Shem Lavay business. And for the Gemara Hachi Komar. What does the Braisa mean? Aizu Mincha Muchedis Sheba Minachois the Less Lay Shem Lavay. That it has no additional title in its name. Zu She Pasach Bakosif Trila. So he puts them both together. Right the Gemara. Shita Minchas Sailus Komar. Why does the Braisa even need to say this? It's push it that Ruby who doesn't mean to say this because Ruby who doesn't say he bring sales. Which is the Gamora says not a sin to be on with the Bryce who just giving us a way to remember it. The Bryce wasn't actually identifying it because Ruby who doesn't told us. The next one was the guy promises to bring a minute or bring a kind of minute. He brings one carbon minute. But if he said then he would have to bring two minutes. Boy rough papa meaning minute let's say the guy said the expression of meaning minute of minute which is both Russian Robin of meaning and Russian Yiddish minute. So which one is the focus? Give it over meaning target call over all my minute when he said the word minute is the cool of minute. Now I mean the Korean. So it's all called a minute of the size of terrorism minute. I don't know maybe the is given to over minute which is Russian Yiddish minute call over all my meaning when he said the Russian Robin minute call over all my meaning meaning minute call over all my meaning call over all my from the different kinds of minutes I'm going to bring one kind of minute. So what's the focus of that expression? Let's bring a right from Arab meaning minute call over all my meaning. So since the mission is telling us both for the word meaning and for minute and they were both said Russian Yiddish but it sounds like we can be meaning minute. If you say a Russian Robin of meaning you would be but I can bring a right the other way. I must say for meaning meaning you have a meaning minute it's my show my lady you say the Russian if you would say the Russian Yiddish of meaning minute it would only be so element like a little my show meaning we have no right from this mission one way or the other. I must say I bring a right from a different Bryce. Meaning meaning call over all my meaning I'm going to bring a type of meaning so you have a meaning in that case you bring two meanings of one kind. But it's my show my meaning minute if you would have to say a Russian Yiddish you would only bring so you have a right. And for the Gamora is right Dilma meaning minute when he says I'm going to bring from different types of meaning maybe meaning meaning maybe two meanings from two different kinds of meaning. And therefore the meaning is referring to two different kinds of carbon. But meaning itself is not a steer to that since meaning are sometimes referred to as a singular mincha. I have a whole like Tony Hawk. But the mice we don't see that from a different bris because it says in the other bris a min minchas a lie. If someone says I'm going to bring a kind of minchas, the Allah has maybe stay minchas mincha. You bring twice the mincha of one kind. But minay minchas a lie, the Russian rab of minay and minchas then maybe stay minchas mishnay minan, which is mash maham minay mincha shada. If you would say minay mincha Russian rab of a singular mincha, you would only bring one kind of mincha. So the mar seems to be mash him now that if you're going to have the Russian rab of minay and the singular of mincha, you're only going to bring one mincha. But it could be but maybe Dilma Hamani, who's the tana of this bris, it's going to be Rebi Shiman he. To amars we've had a couple times in the besach already. Don't mar mach to chos mach surki and yavi. If you were going to bring a mach to tanor is the mission back on samach gimel. You can split it between mach to chos and mach surki. U my minay mincha and therefore when you say minay mincha the Russian rab of a singular mincha, that means mincha there is by tray minay. It means a mincha has two different kinds. The rakikin and the chos. Avol rabonan damri mach to chos mach surki loyavi, you can't mix and match. Therefore you can't be makay minay within the singular mincha according to the rabonan and anachnami maybe stay minchas mishnay minan. Then the mission said pay rashti, I said what kind of mincha is going to bring vinyade amri pay rashti. So the Allah is yovi chameshton. You got to bring all five kinds. So my tana who holds that when you bring five minchas nadavas, you have to bring every different kind. Omar Rebi Yermiya diloy karabi Shiman. Dear Rebi Shiman, you're going to have a problem. Given to Omar mach to chos mach surki and yovi. According to Rebi Shiman that you can split within that mach to tanor that it could be split between chos and kikin. Then inami suffer lo karabi Yehuda do amar kol minchas by zesar. Even if you hold like Rebi Yehuda who holds that all korban minchas are brought in groups of 10, meaning every isaran of flour yields 10 different chos. I guess fuki bar ba osar minchas. Now I'm not going to have five different kinds. I'm going to have 14 because you have to bring 10 loaves and that could be five and five of chos and kikin be four and six, three and seven, two and eight, etc. So you're going to have all the combinations, plus the five are going to be 14. So, I buy you Omar. If you do timer every Shimon, because Shimon every Shimon to Omar my say umas nay. Every Shimon holds when it comes to a shyla of trying to be my kind of your speakers when you bring in carbonas that you can make to know him. The Tanya because every Shimon says in a completely different context. We're talking now about a bryza regarding a nozer who's masupic whether or not he had become a metzaira and whether or not he also became Tommy Mace. So, totally messes up his whole tahara process. And the way that we get out of this complicated tahara process with all these different speakers is that every Shimon makes to know him. That's the point over here. The Tanya every Shimon I am the machos maybe a Shimon the guy turning over to my base e-mite. The only way he makes the following tonight in Metzaira who's a who a Shimon the who the guy the in love and he's not a Metzaira it'll be awesome say yay Shimon in the Dava. But I say awesome tone the Metzaira in the Martin behind I say. So, what do you do with the actual awesome? But I say awesome tone the Metzaira in the Martin behind I say it'll have all the respective halachas to Shimon in the but no fuss cause of a shake. The natural is lay in my lay lay lay lay. So, the point of this even though we're not going to get into the problem of how that all works out for this suffix Metzaira and nozer Tommy Mace. But the fact that every Shimon allows you to make the tonight that if I'm this kind of a massive then this will be the following process. That tonight you can make in the carbon that every Shimon holds of will be applicable to us here that in case he made the nether for this it'll work for this. You know, we're allowed to make that kind of a tonight. Now, if you have a got to come a far rake mar shitas even though we had limited shitas every Shimon in vachum that I am every Shimon my say umas nay la hat chila is only to connect over because this guy is stuck. We don't know how to be my entire him. I will be almond everything la hat chila lay. But generally speaking according to every Shimon you can't la hat chila make such a tonight. It's just a zal felt bad about this poor guy who's stuck. But here, you know, just bring every carbon. You know, here you can get out of it. But that is not really a tonight the is by burning because I need shloman to come in my la shloman because we don't really want you to make such a tonight because you're being my mind at the opportunity for the of the and to have a hook little bit of soul and therefore we're having a problem of limiting the ability to eat the being maybe a little bit of soul. So that's why you can't make the on the I will so we have no problem applying Shimon's tonight I'm even when it comes to so even can be masking to the time of our mission that says if you don't remember what kind of carbon you specified you just bring five you don't have to bring 14. According to that we had already spoken out that says that you can take your turn and split it between and we have another issue why would he be bringing a single from two the mission again and a single look from two don't we have to be that the promise that he had made that he now can't remember that it was either completely or completely and you have to have two separate in two separate you can't take from the same to which answers that later we don't know if you saw mission or you and that kind of a problem or is that what we thought was going to be a technicality is not really a problem for him at all all right now if a person is making a on this or now we have another technical question how does the actually do the or is the is going to make the following tonight that or if it was exclusively or exclusively so I'm really I'll say that I that which I'm separating for the will be on behalf of the and the or and if you can which could be the case according to I'm going to say that that which I'm taking from the or I'm going to which could be the or love or or but for how can that work you have to take away a single from the mixture of both moving over to because if you know if you were neither to bring a single carbon mincha from both chalos and rekikin, you have to be mafresh a single kometz from both of them together. The kometz mechalos or rekikin or rekikin or chalos. Which the Gemara finally says, "Shamina lelo Rebbi Shimon de'amar, im kometz, if you did the kemitzah on a mincha that was mechatzim rekikin and mechatzi chalos, the all of you all may have it all named, and only one came up in your hand, meaning the kometz only had either chalos or rekikin, still he will be yotzei." All right, we're not quite finished this thought process, but we're going to pick this up on tomorrow's daf.