Menachos 84

Today's daff is and we are at the beginning of the new per the ninth perisimo more whether they're the brought or that the brought they can be brought from two grew in or from that grew. Additionally, they could be brought from the or they could be brought from of yesterday. There are two exceptions that was brought on and which was also that was brought on. Number one, they had to be they couldn't be. Number two, they had to be brought from that was brought in not from that was brought. Additionally, there's be brought from wheat and from barley that is how do you know where to find the how do you know where to find the alknos? So the Mishna tells us go to Miknas, go to those were two places in that's where you're going to find the alpha. In fact, they are alpha. Rashi says as in the first letter of the Greek alphabet alpha that's number one when it comes to what's the second best choice. Some have the gear in the apparently there with these two cities called one of them was in a so if you go to the one that's in the that's where you're going to find the second best. So the best came from the second best came from bottom line is even though the is telling us where to go find the best but that's only on the level but it's okay it doesn't really matter where you bring it from. So the first of the was that all meaning whether it's number one they could be brought from number two they could be brought there were two exceptions and which were both and there exceptions as it relates to both number one number So the B says that even though there is a mitzvah to bring the however are going to be from the it's that it's you have to bring it from from the it's that it's only a mitzvah but if you bring it it's going to be okay. How do you know that? What's the says and we learn from there? Even if it's from the how do you know that it's okay but it if you bring it from the and from those words we learn number one that it has to be from but number two we learn that it could even be from the how could you learn two things from the same words teaches me that it has to be from teaches me that it could be from the no we're not learning both is from the word but rather we presented two words from we learned that it has to come from it can't come from from the word we learn but I have another somewhere else that seems to d something else from the word there's a that says that it doesn't matter where you bring the from the in terms of how much and how exactly you're supposed to prepare it is always going to be the same and that's learned out from the word. So again I use the word for something else. How could I use to teach me that you could bring even my but the bottom line is is that from the word that it says by the carbon we learn that the carbon could be brought meaning even though there's for it to be but if you bring it's going to be okay and from the word that it says regarding the we learn the same exact think but doesn't it say and the truth is this idea that is supposed to be brought from the is something that seems to permeate the par that talk about the carbon and the talks about the carbon the says a few later when the talks about the craftious We'll see soon that uses words like when it's referring to these. So you see there's an idea of it being means the terret is says the mitzvah these whole that even though the does say it it only means but now didn't we just say it's what the means to say is that by it says it multiple times. I mean that it says it multiple times, we know the had it said it only once. So you can tell me it's only the mitzvah, but being that it says it more than once doesn't mean it's so says if you bring from it's going to be okay. But doesn't it say more than once which means no doesn't mean the only time it means is if it's extra I don't have anything to from that but over here I do have from this is I learned from here a different that you weren't allowed to bring a from before you brought this is a that we're familiar with already it was a Mishna earlier in the but the bottom line is is that even though it says races it says It says according to the affformentioned is that it's only it's not going to be doesn't it say it many times and many times means so the addresses that there's other that we learn from those the bottom line is is the Mishna said meaning could be brought that have to be brought from meaning if you would bring the from last it would be it's we had a and then later the brought so it's not just but really what emerges it's many if you bring it not from is it okay or is it not okay again says the The Mishnad said two, two things that are distinct about the number one. Number two, they have to be brought from the said I found a Tana that holds that the could be brought even. But the gamarra did not say that that same holds that the could be brought from meaning even those hold that you have to bring the who's that like in other words there's a that holds that the carbon doesn't even have to be brought from Israel to the The carbon can be brought from. Now why would you think otherwise? Because the says these are all that talk about the carbon just says clearly. Doesn't it sound like it's a meaning that the only time you bring the carbon is from? No. As the says what it means until the yidden entered when they were in the midb for 40 years they didn't bring a carbon but once the yidden entered now they're to bring the carbon and they could even bring the carbon from it's not being the it's just being this of when to bring the carbon be and he would continue and he said because they that because the truth is there's another over there that would seem to suggest that the has to be brought from the says also par I'm reading the in its entirety now sounds a little bit like a straw but he says no that really is author in ifadesh is then when the says that there's an what does mean it means even if that's the case that when the uses the word in that same context as it relates to the carbon it doesn't meet it can meet as well So when it says it just means when the says that the carbon should come from it means even it's the bottom line is even though the Mishna says that the had come from it's not like the who said that even now it's interesting what was the basis this. So really he had to say two things. Number one, he was forced to say that when it says it doesn't mean that you have to use the of to bring the carbon. It means that this man first started when the enter but he could bring the carbon even from that was in that's number one. Number two seem to say that his is predicated on the fact that is thus the word doesn't mean it means even some say others say that what should emerge from this is that according to the that holds that the had to be brought from that when it says it means so to come out this back of the envelope arithmetic that should not be. So someone wanted to argue that even though from the it's a little bit mash that is and really the when it comes to laying on the right it's the and really is the basis for the when it comes to this but says the I think I found because the said hold that that had to be brought me which means It's the And what's the basis means even but the is not that way the definitely as relates to the brought from which means it doesn't mean if that's the case is not either way this is another important as it relates to the regardless. So we had a that said that all could be brought either from there's two exceptions they had to be both from they also had to be both from the each part of the is there not just that hold that the could be brought and there's a who holds that and could be brought from we learned So okay the had to be brought from the and this posed a problem every seventh year because every seventh year and there is no nothing grows you don't plant nothing grows right so what did they do so there was an because we know that even if you don't plant things can sometimes grow on their own spontaneously known as so the gizbar would appoint people. They were not as in but they were they would literally sit in the field. They would look out for and when they saw something grow they would quickly take it. They would bring it to the so that they would be to bring the carbon even on they had to be paid right no one's doing anything for free. So who paid them? The gizbar the bikes paid them and they used the money of that was collected the money they had from the chumalishka and the basis to use the chumalishka was the chumalishka was used for carbon but also for ancillaries things that supported the carbon and the carbon were both carbon thus paying the so that there will be to be able to bring this carbon is definitely something that you're allowed to use the chumishka for says question. And he says, "I don't understand the we just mentioned says how in the world are you allowed to bring from the you needed isn't there when it comes to so we know that have specific usages. So not only is there a with regards to not working on just like you're not allowed to work on shabas you're not allowed to work on but there also is about that grow on and one of the is you only let it now everyone knows that comes out many places in but there's also what's the if you're going to bring a carbon you're going to have to burn the isn't there of so that isn't Isn't always referred to as mean that it's always referred to as so maybe it should be included in you see from the that you can't take and turn it into on that level that it should be inclusive in the word but that's he asked that how are you glad to bring a carbon from what about is really not So you're getting involved in could be of course it could as a matter of fact not only can but it goes with different guidelines. So for example says in that even though ordinarily when it comes to even if it's not ordinarily the rule of is you just weigh them which is a more like you'll find and I say how rebel was able to his for a minion one's the other one was anab But isn't it was not it's only that's what the rush famously says was and it could be that's the rush but either way so that's what that was question he says how in the world are you allowed to take and go and bring it as a carbon bringing it as a carbon involves not allowed to do anything with other than eat says what do you want us to do? You want us to not bring the carbon? It says you have to bring it every single year. There's no other he told him no there isn't why can you bring yesterday year's seemed to be of the opinion that it's only the mitzvah that you have to bring from but you can bring that according to and that our mission's life that was mentioned right in the beginning of today's that it's okay to bring from the his question is why are we getting involved in you're getting involved in just use your if there was ever a time to use. This is the time to use because caramel and we learn from caramel has to be caramel. Caramel means that the has to be moist. It has to be and it's not going to be if you use the at that point it's going to be hard already. He said the caramel just means that at the time of the it had to be caramel. So why don't you take that was caramel. Now who cares? I don't care about now as long as it was caramel at the time. Shouldn't that be enough? told him that it's not it's for that reason it's not going to be okay said that you have to bring for the carbon and the reason is for the same what told because it says in the caramel and it has to be caramel at the time And if you're going to use the notes, it's not going to be says that you have to use the carbon is not caramel, but rather it's in other words, in other words, we have what the is that the carbon had to be brought from the the gum previously had addressed what the is according that hold that it doesn't have to be it could be how do you know that so we have something for that now we have the is that the carbon has to that it is that it should be brought from the said it's caramel which was what told which is why he told him even in a year you have no choice but to bring from the because at the end of the day it has to be caraka and if it's yosh it's not going to be carbasha Why you get involved in it says it says all these words that suggest that it has to be from the says it says in the this is a and the is referring to the I'm sorry What was it made of? Had to be brought from two that were brought from what was carbon. What was a carbon? The carbon was the carbon was maybe doesn't say anywhere in the says. So what's this that says by it's an interesting it's talking about one of the makish. So the is talking about how the was ruined. It was damaged during Makkah. It says the word and it says it says by as well must mean says no that had to be brought from somewhere else. You find a carbon can sometimes come sometimes come that the site they used to bring. He says it makes sense that by on the level it should be the same thing if you can tell me that even that's so elimination said it must be that was brought a third how you know that was brought if you're going to tell me that came from it's going to come out that is not going to be because The has to be the first carbon that was and if you're going to tell me that the carbon was also brought. So the is not the first carbon that was born. The carbon was the first carbon that was brought. So the how do you satisfy the fact that the has to be and the fact that a month earlier 50 days earlier you're bringing. So this is on the level and this is the going to be the first on the level. But what do you see from here? We need one part of this B. The last line you see from here that the that had to be brought from was from the word. If that's the case, it makes sense that the carbon had to be brought is also from the fact that it says racist and it says which was what had said what's the carbon has to be brought because it says racial says it's from the word caramel says the I'll ask you from now it's not because the B is talking about the B is not talking about the carbon but the says as it's trying to find a that the carbon was brought that the had to be racist because it says the that the has to be. Makes sense that that word or a synonym of that word would be the carbon has to be races as well says the we learned in you're not allowed to bring unless it's from one of the soim was only brought from the additionally even though is one of the so which one is the which one of is the doesn't say if you look at the top line in the dash is is not ordinary honey it's honey that comes from soarim is considered one of the dvash which is one of the is so even though was brought from the but not all in in other words no tomorrow not Let me that grew in the deep valleys in Haven. What happens if somebody brings from one of the but it's or it's doesn't have in other words this is going to be that's saying what asked the rabb about what had said the says and we learn from and this is referring to the so it's confusing a lot The say racist are referring to the carbon others are referring to the you have to have cup which is which is referring to the and we learn from there it's raious in the sense that it's you were not allowed to bring a from the before you brought the carbon was and was the carbon was you weren't allowed to eat from the until you brought the carbon the was You weren't allowed to bring a carbon from the until this was until the says I would think that this is only true for maybe maybe being that was brought from so maybe that is you can't bring that's before you bring the but what if I want to bring So for example, which was there you can't bring a from you bring from but is there you can't bring from before you bring it says it says it twice I don't need the to tell me twice that you can't bring the before how do you know that you weren't even allowed to bring before you brought the interesting Even though at first glance one's a carbon, one is a that you're giving to the doesn't really involve carbon. So how do you know that you're not even allowed to bring until you bring the there's another and this is and the as follows is referring to amongst which was a carbon. The first you bring and afterwards afterwards okay that you couldn't bring from before you brought the how do I know that because that's what the says and it makes sense because again so maybe there's a that before you bring from bring was not it was also matter bringing from and how do you know that you're not allowed to bring even of is also one of the before you bring the it says another this is not this is it says again is referring to so first and afterwards This is the says how do you know that if you have from something that grew on its own I'm not even allowed to bring that you can't bring before you bring but the says what if there was no there was no she didn't have to do any of the it grew by itself how do you know even then you can't bring it as before you bring the fail Okay, maybe only if it grows in a field. If it grew on your roof in a flower pot says and from the words we learn everything. Now where's that? That's already another Pic that's in we're lumping all together in that and just like we lump it together in that all the we brought earlier because that doesn't say anything about bringing the first it just says That's a that's talking about but being that that that's talking about seems to put all together doesn't matter where it grows even if it's not in so we learn from there that the other that mean those do say first you have to bring before you bring thus I know that came before it doesn't matter if it was doesn't matter if it doesn't matter if you planted it doesn't matter if it grew by itself it doesn't matter if it grew in a field or if grow on a boat. The is first you have to bring the but we're not finished. How do you know that you weren't allowed to bring the from wine that was usually you want aged wine but how do you know that you're not allowed to bring the from new wine before you bring the additionally anything that we mentioned before was that grew in the field. How about that fruit that grow on a tree? Maybe that's not included. It's not included. It says it says now that is actually the same. It says talking about and then it says now when it refers to as the as the where you go and you gather everything in from your field it's everything even you grow you gather over there means the because you're gathering grapes and wine what do we want from all this one Amongst the many that we learned now from movies different from words was that is that you can't bring before you brought the but not only and even if they grew spontaneously and even if they grew in a gag an or it sounds like you can bring from any of those places because said that the criteria for bringing bikurim is not enough that's from the sham said that if somebody would bring from it wouldn't be to say how could say that this talks clearly about that's coming from ava you're going to tell me these places are better than so if it's True that has to be from the choicest place then how are we even having this conversation says the he told him back say I don't know why that's a when the went and said how do you know that you can't bring he wasn't you can't bring from those places even it's going to be he was going back to this this price of discuss that you can't bring a before you bring the you can't bring before you bring the and you can't bring the before you bring Those four types of things are not describing the you can't bring before because there's no such from places like that. can't bring from can't even bring from but what it's referring to is the you can bring from what was the how did the gumar said how do you know that you can't bring those four things before you bring the because it says now what does the say afterwards and then it says sounds like anybody's allowed to eat it what's If it's describing if that is not describing describing that sounds like as long as he's you can give it to anybody in your house. Not true. It's only so it's not true that could be eaten by as long someone as long as he's a now it's not really it's the beginning and the end of a that again that's the first part of the now sounds like only the allowed eat it only sounds like anyone in his family is allowed to eat it. The first part of the P is describing the min. The second part of the P is describing the bottom line is is that the part of the P is but we're not dashing that part of the P. with the first part of the P that's the part of the P that's described that's part of the P doesn't say that part of the P says so to the contrary it means the point is is that there's no that you can bring from those four places even the like said you can't bring from I the was talking about the I it says in That's these four things. That's the second part of there's two parts of the there's the talking about usually when you talk about a you describe or you have a this is the really the whole is talking about how could the whole be talking about there is a that could be eaten by everybody there's a that was was and says the really which whether or not when we say you could bring the from does it mean anywhere in or does it have to be from one of the choices places was that you can't bring it from the even like was a mas he held that this was a not that way you could bring it from a says the if you bring it from one of those places it doesn't have it's no different than if you take an animal that's a animal okay it's not it' be okay I understand why it's okay what's his no different than a than a cheap animal it's fine know that had to be from one of the better places says last night I had a dream and I saw and I know it's a good omen what I'm about to say is true he's coming to explain he said the says describing the so again now and two coming up not all the can't bring it from anywhere you want only from certain places as opposed to for example what does he do with the word it says by the I It says that you're supposed to take from the races which I have no idea but it says and it says so I know which it means it means the I don't use to tell me not from every part of you could bring from every part just like you bring any animal you could bring from any part of what teaches me it means the what does how does he knows it says and it says teaches me it's that teaches me this he was not masked into the oft may exhale so before we end a rather challenging week of dafoi so we mentioned we left some raid on the table so I think it's kadai maybe to speak a little big picture of the carbon Tida specifically, but really more generally the carbon schlav. So really the topic of the daff this week was the carbon taida we learned per and the carbon tid like the rabam says was one of four types of carbon schlav. So just something interesting as related to the carbon we know the says throughout and that the carbon and the carbon were unique in that they were both the carbon was the carbon was the was for different things discussed in greater detail in coming up soon but the and the had something in common that they're both effectively as a sheep is in many places that there similarities in between and the so for example that are brought because is also so those were the two that were unique that they were both stating that we know that the which is not and not an it's not what referred to as a carbon that was also says right the beginning of brings in that the carbon was and it was also so if somebody was or if somebody was with there's no malus is is that the carbon was we've explained many times that even though the essence wasn't but at the same time when somebody brought a carbon he became and as a result he got kap so the were but the although it wasn't it was a so it's wrong to say that was brings in the beginning of passage by the was the says that the carbon was for a if someone had a to was so was as well. What about the carbon? Was the carbon or was the carbon not so first glance you would say wasn't all of a right. We're going to have to prove that it was not it's not but it's not it's not an we don't have this from so at first glance he would say that if somebody bought a carbon he didn't get anyap it wasn't and he didn't even get a kafar the truth is says in soon as the introduces Why was the carbon? It brings peace onto the world. So if somebody brought a carbon, it was maybe okay. So we see that it was but andapor are not necessarily the same thing. So at first glance you would say that the carbon wasn't a stating that there's a context over there is the of says somebody is obligated to bring a carpet force the person to bring someone's obligated to bring doesn't want to bring it force him or can he not force him so familiar with right stating says it's not true for all what's the reason says Rashi being that someone that's needs for that he did and the reason he's going to bring the is we don't feel a need to force him because we feel that he's going to bring it anyways similar to that we spoke at a few weeks ago regarding the carbon we said there's a that says that bezdon didn't force to bring the carbon why not the reason is because you don't have to force people to do it because the carbon was I mean that it's going to be it's going to be brought anyways so there's a feeling that why do you have to force the person to bring the he'll bring it he'll get around to it and he sounds like he's not so being that this person anyways will come around to it so being that it's for listen to not obligated to bring it. Take a look at the says the says I think there's something wrong with the gear rashi. There's a take out the word and insert the word not it's because where do you find anywhere that we know that is and is saying so wasn't bothered with was bothered with this is in the beginning of and this is in the beginning of where says was it was so this is the same rash over here and even though we have the says the says the word is not the right word take outlim and insert stating that there's a very end of the context over there is the and the is talking about howus is toadesh an excerpt of all the you bring to me there's no carbon that's like I'll prove it to you every single carbon this is talking is brought for some this is the that brings in the although This is also bottom line is talking about howto is all the you bring very nice But you're bringing it for yourself because at the end of the day, you're getting when you bring it. And the goes on and lists the we know. It lists the which we also know. And then it throws in. So this is half of truth is I found a beautiful it's in the base and there's a there would seem to suggest that the carbon is not the context is in pigle We're not going to go into that now but says that he was I don't know where this is but he says that he was and someplace else he brought that he brings this and he says that what not ordinary meaning so how exactly does this work how do you reconcile this he says we're not talking about ordinary we're talking about the of so it's probably then it's but he says it's on. So if there's somebody is negligent on a level, he doesn't do when he was supposed to do is I was thinking it could be that's the reason that the is maybe why is it maybe based on that's and that is we know that really conducts himself with us comes from so for example if you're is going to be. So if you're willing to look away at what people do to you will look away at what you do to him. The way you act that's the way you do said that was destroyed because of and really it's it's very very you would think was one big base mish but there was and as a result the base m was destroyed but we know that's factually incorrect. There was a gaz he was gay and there was rejo. It's it's clear what was with the was alli. So what do you mean that it was destroyed because of said that what it means to say is that had there been a during bay had there not been he didn't gotten along amongst each other then would have looked away because if we're then is going to act with us in that way as well. It's because we had that the base of was destroyed. You're right. Because of real that were going on. But seemingly there was an emphasis in that we could have somehow avoided what happened had we gotten along had been had it been in that somehow would have prevented everything that happened. But the point is is that when we act nicely amongst each other, that's the way acts with us. But when we're not doing things properly, meaning if we're negligent in when this what happens this comes when we have amongst us then comes the carbon says it was on the if somebody brought a carbon what happens some of the is starting to go away it's peeling away that's what the did it was so you have this of that's hovering over it's being on the carbon removes that thus the carbon like says in is because what's preventing from being from the level it's the fact that we're not but if we haveap on a if somehow getsap everything but the bottom line is that's it so it's a rashi in there's a saw the three beautiful that would seem to suggest that even though you don't find anywhere in that was the we know even was what about the we have some and that's this of the is really totally ra there is a it's not so the because it could be was referring to this there is an idea that maybe specifically the says I'm going to bring a to you to my meaning this I'll bring you the ra's in the end of the context over there the ra's discussing voy so when somebody brought a carbon he had to be misv there was an idea of voy when you bring a carbon and the describes exactly how voy went down says the I think last line in the Rambam I have a hunch I think when you bring a carbon you don't say you should say but you don't say when you bring a carbon I don't It's that you shouldn't say the rabbi I think but the it's not the cast they're advanc what's the what's the other side is not so it's not coming to be we don't know what that is where he says that the garbage which is the terrorist. You want to know why the said it's because really you would think just like you and maybe the yearly you don't it's part going to be a little bit different and the explains why it would be different in light of his theory that But the bottom line is says that this is also in the end of now the rabb says but you should say doesn't explain what exactly is this we're all familiar with say it every morning in mmo five of and correlates to the carbon and you know that because you don't say on pes you don't even say it on pes you don't say it you don't say it on shabas you don't say it on you don't say misa any day that you couldn't meet the carbon because misa is somehow the carbon for that reason you can't say misa on a day that you couldn't meet the carbon rashi in his pis capital 100 in says you're giving and this rashi was rashi says without having a real that was said when a carbon was brought you brought a carbon he would bring this carbon and he would sing he would say It was recited at the same time that the carbon was brought and it's not clear where Rash got this from what's the and this is in from all places but brings this rash two words where's this coming from says the truth is I believe in the rashi I'll tell you a type of he didn't what did you do says the rabbis when you bring a carbon rail there was no but there was an idea to say so every time you bring a talking about talking So anytime you brought a carbon you had to say what's the I should say. So I guess it depends. But if it's a carbon then we know what you're supposed to say. You're supposed to say I'll tell you something interesting in the hills. So there's a voice of and they bring here from Rashi says the same thing that was said any time that a carbon was brought and he says that is the carbon and he says that's why this now really it's five but is like the introduction we're about to say and then you Four is one. Whoever didn't say that's two is three. Why four? That were brought. Thus, it's four to connected the four. And we will start here.