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Menachos 7
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Today's daf is Menachot Daf Zion, and we
are about 20 lines from the top
of Daf Vav Amud Bet,
Ki Amar Rav ben Betzeira. So, yesterday
we began the second Mishnah in Maseches
Menachot, which is really the second
Sugya in Maseches Menachot. Maseches
Menachot begins like Maseches Vaknin
does with the Sugya of [ __ ] Lishma. It
continues with the first Sugya of the
second perek in Maseches Vaknin, which
deals with psul, people that are unfit
to do the avodah. And the Mishnah
mentioned the same exact list that the
Mishnah did in the beginning of the
second perek in Maseches Vaknin. Kol ha
Menachot she kimson zar
So, the Mishnah gives a whole list of
people that are psul, all of which were
discussed in very, very great detail in
Maseches Vaknin. A lot of gishmaka
sugyas related to the psul oyen, the
psul zar, mechuksar bigadim, as
mentioned bigdei maleh and kunos maleh.
We spoke a lot of rain when we went
through those sugyas in the beginning of
the second perek in Maseches Vaknin. But
for now, all the Mishnah says is that
that same exact list that we had in
Maseches Vaknin with regards to the
avodahs of a zevach apply to the avodahs
of a mincha as well. Then the Mishnah
mentioned the machlokes ben Betzeira and
the Tanna Kamma. Komatz bismol pasul.
That's the Tanna Kamma. Ben Betzeira
omer that it's not pasul, because pasul
suggests that there's no way out. You
can actually fix that issue. Yachzer,
take the komatz, if it was done with the
left hand, put it back together with the
rest of the mincha, viyachzer, yachzer
bimeima, and do it all over again, this
time with the right hand. Rav on the top
of Daf Vav Amud Bet said, "Zar shekimetz
yachzer." If zar does kimitzah, he can
put the komatz back into the mincha, and
now a kohen will come, and a kohen will
do the correct
kimitzah. And the Gemara began its
discussion of what exactly what was Rav
was referring to. Was Rav saying his
Halacha according to the Kohanim or was
Rav saying his Halacha according to Ben
Betera? So, we're in the middle of the
Shakal of the Taryav. We're going to
pick up where we left off yesterday.
Says the Gemara, "Ki amar Rav l'Ben
Betera, you have to say that when Rav
said his Halacha that if he does Kemitza
he can put the Kohanim back together
with the rest of the Mincha and now let
the Kohanim do a proper Kemitza." So, he
was saying it according to Ben Betera.
Ben Betera who said in the Mishna that
if a Kohen did Kemitza with his left
hand, put the Kohanim back and do a
proper Kemitza with the right hand. Says
Rav, "Ben Betera didn't only say it with
regards to a Komatz b'smol, which is one
type of psol. He said it with regards to
Komatz zar as well." But the Gemara asks
the obvious question, "Pshita, why do I
need Rav for that? Why would somebody
learning the Mishna and the Avodah of
Yom Kippur think that maybe Ben Betera's
chiddush of Komatz b'smol yachser
v'yikmotz b'yamin was only with regards
to the psol smol? What's the difference
between the psols
smol and the psols zar? They're both
Kemitza is psula and if Ben Betera says
a chiddush that if you do a Kemitza
psula you can always redo it. See, if
you shecht the wrong way, you can't do
the shechita again. But if you do a
Kemitza psula, so you can take the
Kohanim, put it back together with the
Mincha and do a proper one. Why would
you think there's a difference between
the smol and the zar that I need Rav to
tell me the Ben Betera that just like
Komatz b'smol you could do it all over
again, Komatz zar is the same thing? So,
the Gemara says, "I'll tell you why.
Because the day might come that Ben
Betera b'smol avodah is absolutely like
Komatz b'smol. But why mashma smol?"
Says the Gemara, presumably the
Ashkanazim have shiyur b'Yom Kippur.
This is an idea that you find throughout
Kodshim, but really you find it
throughout Shas. And that is that
anything that's psol but you find
somewhere that the Torah was meikel with
regards to this psol, that suggests a
leniency even where it really is psol.
So, smol is psol. You can't do avodah
with your left hand. But there is one
time you find that you could do avodah
with your left hand. That is in Yom
Kippur, when the Kohain Gadol entered
the Kodesh Hakodashim to bring the
special ketores, kippur on and a right
al ach apeiras. So, he had the calf that
was the spoon with ketores in his right
hand, and he had the machta with the
gachalim in his left hand. The point is,
he used both his right hand and his left
hand to bring the ketores into the
Kodesh Hakodashim. Now, bringing the
ketores was an avodah, and you see
avodah can be done with the left hand.
So, once you find a coolah in avodah
smol, some reasons to say that every
avodah smol is more cooladic, even
kimitzah b'smol, which is pasul. But, at
the very least, maybe there's a coolah
that if you did the kimitzah with your
left hand, you could do it all all over
again, as opposed to zar. But, the
Gemara says that's not true, cuz it's
not as opposed to zar. Zar nami ash kol
she b'shchitah, you find by a zar that
there's a coolah as well. And where is
that? Shchitah. Shchitah ksheirah b'zar.
So, kabalah, z'rikah, kimitzah, melikah,
you can't do with a zar. But, shchitah
you could do with a zar. But, the Gemara
says shchitah lav avodah hee. That's not
a coolah. Because the reason you can use
a zar for shchitah is because it's lav
avodah. A coolah would mean that it's an
avodah, really it requires
kehunah, stating that there's a chiddush
that you don't have to use a kohen. The
reason shchitah is ksheirah b'zar is not
a chiddush in avodah shchitah. It's
because shchitah is not an avodah, and
it's for that reason a zar is kosher.
But, the Gemara says, "V'lo yesh that
true? Shchitah lav avodah b'vameh amar
Rav Ashi? Shchitah is parah b'zar
psulah. The shchitah of parah adumah
couldn't be done with a zar. Isn't that
because it's an avodah? That's why it
couldn't be done with a zar." V'amar Rav
Lav Rav Seder k'she b'zar, cuz it says
that all of us had to bring the first
parah adumah, and it says chukah, which
means it's machkiv. But, the bottom line
is is from the fact that shchitah of
parah adumah had to be done with kohen.
Isn't that a riot? It's an avodah. The
Gemara says, "No, shani parah. The
kodesh b'dei hagabayas
parah is not kodesh b'dei Rav Akiva.
It's kodesh b'dei hagabayas, right?
That's the dichotomy you find with the
parah adumah. On the one hand, it was
kosher by the gabai's, it was brought on
a rishus, but then again, kadosh
kadoshim is a lot of a lot of kadosh
mishbe'ach. But the gemara says at its
core, in its essence, the para aduma was
kosher by the gabai's. So could it be
the shchita of kosher by the gabai's is
an avoda, but the shchita of kosher
mishbe'ach is not an avoda. Meaning from
the fact that you find shchitas para
aduma requires kehuna, that's a raya
shchita avoda, but only by kosher by the
gabai's, not necessarily by kosher
mishbe'ach. But the gemara says kodesh
kodeshim who? Also known as the love
kodesh kodeshim. Kosher by the gabai's
by kehuna, kosher mishbe'ach loy by
kehuna. How could that be? How could it
be that when there's a shchita by kosher
by the gabai's, it's an avoda, but when
there's shchita by kosher mishbe'ach,
it's not an avoda? Amar Rav Sheishes
b'rei d'Rav Idi, me did have a maris
ayin.
The love avoda mennu ubayikun. You have
to say that really shchita is not an
avoda. And the truth is even by kosher
by the gabai's, it's not an avoda. The
fact that you need a kohen by kosher by
the gabai's is because it requires a
kohen. And the gemara gives an example,
like maris ayin
requires a kohen. Another example would
be pidyon haben, right? That also
requires a kohen. Not that it's kosher
mishbe'ach, but the point is is that
there are halachas of kohen that have
nothing to do with avoda. So the truth
is shchita is not avoda. And the fact
that shchita is sheer bizarre doesn't
suggest any kula in
zarus because the fact that you could do
shchita with a zar doesn't mean that the
psul zarus is not chazak, very very
chazak. You don't find anywhere a kula.
The reason you could do shchita with a
zar is simply because shchita is not an
avoda. Ah, shchitas para aduma, that's
kosher by the gabai's, and the reason
you need a kohen there is just like by
maris ayin, you need a kohen. It has
nothing to do. Incidentally, there's a
discussion in the poskim, what about
bigdei kehuna? Did shchitas para aduma
have to be done with bigdei kehuna?
Maris ayin, does that have to be done
with bigdei kehuna? That's a little bit
of a raya that we're not going to get
into now. But for now, says the gemara,
so maybe the reason Rav had to say the
ben mesayra's halacha is true not only
for komatz b'smol, also for komatz zar.
Because had he Because ben mesayra's
halacha that was said by common small
you could be
thought misled to think is only true by
common small which you find is not such
a common of soul cuz there's a cooler in
the soul small where do you find the
cooler in the soul small? On Yom Kippur.
As opposed to Zahara where you don't
find anywhere a cooler maybe if a Zahara
does the committee you don't have the
option to redo it. That's where I was
coming to be
that even Zahara makes you ask of course
according to them to say according to
the common of the Mishnah you can't
return the comments of small you
certainly can't return the comments are
but he was coming to say that according
to Ben Israel the Gamara says I'll still
find you a case where you find that the
Zahara says a cooler thus it should be
no different than common of small where
is that from they left me by my because
Shita or all of this for that matter by
a bomber was a bizarre says the common
of bomber they have you know you got to
tell me avoid that make those look good
and avoid this bomber look good they're
very very different even though there
was avoid this done in the base of to
avoid this done in the bomber but it's
different you can't bring me riots and
coolers and curses and what should be
all of this from avoid this bomber
they're fundamentally different comes to
mind is the measure of the Zahara
say for you grow where he makes a
compromise between the Rambam's of
of why carbon is were brought and the
Rambam's of why carbon is were brought
the Rambam says that the only reason we
have terrorist kind of by you grow and
was all because the year that when they
left me trying but over there Zahara all
of the Zahara all of the Zahara all of
the Zahara and to somehow distance the
Jews from the avoid the Zahara that they
had gave us something that they were
able to relate to so don't bring carbon
to pagan deities instead bring it to our
God
but does our God really need carbon is
now that's what the movie says I don't
need carbon is our God doesn't really
need carbon is but it was just that
generation will not be able to relate to
serving our God without the idea of
carbon is so that's why our God said
bring carbon is but club Zahara our God
doesn't really need carbon is our God
said could you say that?" Rabbi Nachman
says, "Of course I shall need carbonos."
Rabbi Nachman incidentally, you know the
Ramah wrote a safer on carbonos.
It's You can buy it in your local swarm
store. The Ramah wrote swarm on on seder
carbonos and in the beginning he goes
through all the different shitos of the
tamei carbonos. And and the Ramah he
brings the from the
he brings the Ramah and the Ramban from
the safer ikrim and the kuzari and
there's many different mahalos. But,
most are not like the Ramah that there
is a tachlis, there is a matter. And the
Ramah's biggest raya is the Torah says
that a carbon
is re'ach nicho'ach. Re'ach nicho'ach
means Hashem has some sort of a Says
Rabbi Shimon,
"I'll be the kosav ashlishi v'achri'a
beneihem. I'm going to be machri'a. The
Rambam is right when it comes to that
carbon is on a bamah. The Ramban and all
the others are right when it comes to a
carbon in the mikdash. The carbon in the
mikdash re'ach nicho'ach. The carbon on
a bamah there's no re'ach nicho'ach.
What's the point? You see they're
fundamentally different. They're
different in terms of what they're
coming to accomplish even. The avodas
mikdash mikdash those in avodas re'ach
nicho'ach. The avodas avodas bamah that
wasn't avodas of mikdash. So, says the
Gemara, you going to go tell me now
maybe learn it from a bamah, right? In
other words, say that it's true that in
mikdash you don't find anywhere any
kula, any klitzos, any weakness in the
psul zar cuz zar is always pasul. But,
in bamah you see it. So, the Gemara says
v'chi neila b'bamah v'chi neila b'bamah
you'll find the time you can't learn
from bamah. Yeah, why can't you learn
from bamah? Maybe like we just said it's
fundamentally different. But, time we
learn in the parsha of avodas avodas
avodas avodas so we learn from parshas
v'eileh kadesh. And we're familiar with
the concept of mizbei'ach kadesh psulim
and an oileh lo ya'areh. The Gemara
says, "How do you know that psul ya'areh
says a psul we have the halacha of lo
ya'areh?" So, ya'areh to kasha bamah
because you find psul ya'areh says also
a a a a a a cooler dig psul because
there's no ya'areh by bamah. Why is
there no ya'areh by bamah? Because
there's no machitzos by bamah. Rashi
Zevachim Yud Daled Amud Aleph that you
can
bring carbonos on a bamah anywhere in
the world not only in in Eretz Yisrael.
But, either way, so you see that we do
apply a cool law in a korban boma to a
korban mikdash, says the gemara. No.
Tana as always tells us some of them we
had this already many times in maseches
zevachim that the reason, the real
reason why psol yotzei is amala yedei
zotat from a pasuk. So yotzei is amala,
that's the makat bechoros makat psol.
Stating that there were three miyutim in
that pasuk. And the question is which
psol to apply the miyut to? So we apply
it to yotzei say because there is a
svara. There is a svara why yotzei
should be amala yedei because you find
that by a boma you don't have the psol
yotzei. But in and of itself it's not a
real psol. Meaning it's not a real
svara. If you needed to rely 100% on the
fact that motzinu b'boma you wouldn't be
able to rely on that. The reason yotzei
is amala yedei is not because of boma.
It's because of a pasuk. Because of zois
teira asur. We learn from there makat
bechoros makat psol. There's three
exceptions. We're trying to figure out
what the exceptions were. Which ones are
amala yedei? Yotzei is going to be amala
yedei because motzinu b'boma. So it's a
svara kal vachomer. But to use it as a
real svara there maybe not. Either way,
what what are we trying to say? We're
saying that you don't find anywhere that
if it's motzinu b'boma that should be a
kula. So again, had you asked
why did Rav have to say according to
Bamba Kamma Yachser, why would you think
why would you think that kamatz b'smol
shouldn't be any different than kamatz
zar tamei Rav, says the gemara. Al lav
v'hachi hava mino b'shav sulam pasal
bein b'seiro. The time we learn in the
braisa. Again, why do I need Rav to say
this? We have Rebbe Yehuda Rebbe Elazar
Rebbe Nachman Rebbe Elazar Rebbe Nachman
kula. Meaning, so we're saying that the
reason Rav had to say it, again let's
just recap one more time. The reason Rav
with these gemaras back and forth and
forth and back you have to recap every
now and again. So again, Rav is saying
his halacha of kamatz
zar yachser according to Bamba Kamma.
Bamba Kamma already said kamatz zar
yachser. Why would I think it's
different? I'll tell you why. Cuz smile
is
a you find somewhere that the smile is
not possible as opposed to you don't
find anywhere. You find it by
it's not an I you find it by
don't give us a whole
it's a whole different deal. That's why
we need to say that says not only true
for smile it's true for as well. But the
says I still don't need to say it cuz
it's
before you
it's before us. Okay, number one. Number
two is a it says it says
and we learn from them
that the place that the had to be done
was the place where the was allowed to
go. So
what
about was done on the
what about where was done? So the kind
of common this says it says become as it
should be done
that's coming to establish the
where is that the place where the was
able to walk there. But what is
something else from the mission? You
know what he learns that? Our mission.
How do you know that if you did with
your left hand you could put the back
into a all over again. How do I know
that you could put the back into a all
over again? How do I know that the
mission is that's what the mission tells
me. You could do from there. From where?
From the place you did again. What's the
bottom line? The in the cross
we know that the doesn't talk about any
specific doesn't say the word smile
anywhere. Not at least smile not at
least smile. So clearly the said
with regards to any time you did a and
for some reason you have to do the again
do it again. So what do I need for this
for? The how come must be coming to
teach me something else.
What he's coming to teach me is
what he's coming to teach me is
that the that said
that if you do a you can
you can put the back and do it all over
again. It's true even if you did the and
then put it into the
so you did the equivalent of the as
well. You did already the second
you would have thought that once you put
it into the cliche as you took the
comments put it into the cliche but what
were the four of us by the comments
commits from the original cliche
put the comments into a second cliche as
I walk at his back and then do that so
you would have thought that once you put
it into the second cliche
maybe now you can't put it back into the
original cliche that's a lot of money to
the device and
Yossi and after the moment I want to
give
up to possible do a two time nothing to
turn on that do not appear finish up
Yossi and Yossi and Yossi
and Yossi and after
the baker either way it says these
that the only time it's true according
to
that if you do a absurd you could do it
again as if it was for like
but if it was
commits with it's possible comes again
and telling me
commits what's the not the emphasis is
not on
the is he did commits
and it goes on he put it into the second
cliche Yossi
so you can go back to get from those
that just the opposite he was coming to
say commits in commits like it's only
commits
but if it was commits commits like it's
says come on
like those who have done a comment like
the that holds not that way either way
commits was not versus smile rather
commits according to this
was the whether it's going to be true
that it's a even if you put it into a
cliche or only if you didn't put it into
a cliche
what exactly was saying we're not sure
you can one way
the other way either way it says the
master for
like
what are these
that's an interesting sheet of a
this sheet of
and Yossi and Yossi and Yossi and after
and according to one of the rough and
that is that if a possible would do
commits according to the Rambam,
he could put it back into the mincha and
do a second kemitzah. Obviously, not the
kosher do the second kemitzah. But, if
he did the kemitzah and put it into a
k'li shareis, now it's already too late.
So, Rav Nachman
didn't understand this and loved this.
He said, "Make us already honey tonah.
If kemitzah is pasul an avodah, if the
kemitzah itself is the avodah, then I
forgot the avodah matan k'li, then even
if you didn't put it into a second k'li
shareis, once that avodah was done,
maybe you shouldn't be able to put it
back. And if kemitzah is pasul in lav
avodah, even if the kemitzah of a pasul
is not avodah, k'li avodah matan k'li
mah havei?"
What's Again, what what is putting it
into the second k'li have to do with
anything? At first glance, putting it
into the second k'li is the equivalent
of kabalah. It's the second avodah. So,
when a an avodah in the sense that it
now is something that can't be fixed?
Then you can't fix it, even if you
didn't put it into a second k'li
shareis. And if a pasul doing an avodah
is not an avodah in the sense that it
can't be fixed, then fix it. Then then
put it back back, even if you did put it
into the k'li. What What is the second
k'li shareis have to do with it with
anything? Hold on, Rav Nachman. So, Rav
Nachman said, "You know what you see
from here? A super lomdus. Lo oilam
avodah hi. A kemitzah is pasul as an
avodah." Meaning, once a pasul does an
avodah, you can't redo it. It destroys
the kashrus of this mincha. Does the
second machshavah is pigul? You can't
make it right. You can't fix However,
"For the gamirah avodah so, avodah matan
k'li But, the avodah is kemitzah is not
complete until you put it into the k'li
shareis. So, if he picks it up and
doesn't put it into the k'li shareis,
the avodah is pasul wasn't completed
yet. So, now you could fix it. Once you
put it into the k'li shareis, so putting
it into the k'li shareis constitutes
kabalah, but at the same time, it's also
the hashlama of the kemitzah. So, we
have to talk to the Rambam to understand
exactly how this works. But, the point
is it completes the kemitzah as well.
So, as long as the kemitzah wasn't
completed yet by the pasul, so it didn't
pasul the avodah in a in a sense. So,
put it back and do it again. But, once
the kemitzah is completed, and when is a
kemitzah completed? When it's put into
the like that is the shita of those
tanoyim and the shita of Rav according
to one listener in the Gemara. But, the
Gemara says e hachi, that's the case, a
feel like it. That's the case, I have a
problem. I have an inherent flaw in all
of this because if you're going to tell
me that when a possul does the avodah,
as long as he doesn't put it into a kli
shareis, the avodah is not complete.
Thus, he can put it back into the
original kli shareis. It's only if he
puts it into the kli shareis that the
avodah is complete. So, now you can't
put it into the original kli shareis.
What's the issue? The issue is that when
you put this chometz, the possul, into
the original kli shareis, he's putting
it into a kli shareis. So, the moment he
puts it into the kli shareis, now the
avodah of the kemitzah is complete. Once
the avodah of the kemitzah is complete,
you shouldn't be able to do another
kemitzah. Faith in Gemara of chaim ad o
lo chometz l'duchta, when you put the
chometz back into the original kli
shareis, tikdash v'lo yisov, why isn't
that an issue? Mana shach, if the possul
would do the a kemitzah, whether it's a
kohen doing it with his left hand or
whether it's a zar doing the kemitzah,
he puts it into a new kli shareis, now
you can't put it back. You can't unwind
it now. Then, why? Cuz it was in a kli
shareis. You just completed the
kemitzah. And who put it into the kli
shareis? The possul put it into the kli
shareis. Then, you have the same exact
issue. If the possul is going to go
ahead and he's yachsir v'yikmotz, HOW
CAN YOU PUT IT BACK INTO the original?
What's the difference if I'm putting it
into the original kli shareis or I'm
putting it into a new kli shareis? I'm
Rabbi Yochanan. So, Rabbi Yochanan says
they're the same matters. Kli shareis
ain't makdish al libi You know what you
see from here? That a kli shareis is
only makdish
b'das. So, if the
possul or would put the chometz into the
new kli shareis, why is he putting it
into the new kli shareis? He wants to be
makdish the chometz, so he should be
able to do l'achtorah with it. Right?
He's he's doing what he's supposed to
do. But, if when he puts it into the
original kli shareis, why is he doing
that? He's not doing it to be makdish
l'achtorah. Just the opposite, he wants
to undo what he did. So, being that he
didn't have dots to be makandish, the
climates let shame up Torah, that's why
it was never makandish it. If it was
never makandish it, so it's not
considered the [ __ ] of the avoida.
Major love this here. So if it's not
considered the [ __ ] of the avoida,
that's why that doesn't bother me.
Perfect tomorrow how many dots we got
it. Interesting says the Gamara that
would be the one that would say this.
Cuz clearly was bothered with the kasha.
We didn't understand that when the
apostle takes the climates and he puts
it back into the original k Sorry, why
doesn't that constitute the [ __ ] of
the climates? That So I said, oh, you
know they say
klishoris and makash I say to Gamara Rab
and the shita say shouldn't have
understood the question. This is the
wrong kasha to ask Rab cuz
cuz once I ask Rab klishoris
I assume like
Could the klishoris be makandish the
double apostle? The kora the kachila the
kora so we know misbehave is makandish
apostles. Even something that's not
allowed to go on the misbehave doesn't
have a dinner kora. But in all the way
yet not my soul in the misbehave in the
beginning of misbehave makandish and
once it goes on the misbehave you leave
it there. That's a whole paragraph in
the Gamara that discusses that
and says Rab what about a klishoris? If
you take a double apostle you put it
into a klishoris. Is the klishoris
makandish the double apostle just like
the misbehave was makandish the double
apostle or does the klishoris not have
that ability? know what he told him
makandish. A klishoris can't be
makandish the double apostle. Now if a
klishoris can't be makandish the double
apostle, the klishoris can't be
makandish the double kasha if a possible
is the one that put it into the
klishoris. It's the same thing. So the
kora kind of the Gamara that what's this
whole discussion anyways? Rab seems to
be saying that if the apostle would put
it into a klishoris even the original
klishoris as long as he had dots to be
makandish it, it would get a kadusha so
that now the klishoris would be nishlam.
The reason there's a kora between the
apostle putting it into a new klishoris
versus the original klishoris cuz one is
makandish and the other one was not
mikadesh. But it sounds like the
klishoris would be mikadesh the kimitzah
of the possul. Like the gemara Yoyness
the one who told Reish Lakish that even
though mizbei'ach is mikadesh psulim,
klishoris is not mikadesh psulim.
Amaleh, so the gemara says two different
things. Ein mikachin likorban, aval
mikachin lipossul. There's different
levels of There's different levels of
mizbei'ach mikadesh. There's mizbei'ach
mikadesh likorban and there's mizbei'ach
mikadesh lipossul. Rebbe Akiva said
there's no mizbei'ach mikadesh psulim.
That if you put a double possul into a
klishoris, now you can go ahead and be
mak that thing. That you don't.
Mizbei'ach mikadesh. Yeah, im al lo
ya'ir. But a klishoris is not mikadesh
likorban in the same way that a
mizbei'ach is mikadesh. But that's not
what we're discussing over here. Well,
we here we're discussing something else.
Here we're discussing the klishoris
being mikadesh it lipossul. To say that
the avodah of the possul was complete.
The klishoris could be mikadesh
lipossul, it can't be mikadesh likorban.
Amram Amram Amram said a different What
was the question? The question was that
we're saying according to these tannoim,
Rebbe Yosi ben Yosi ben Yosi ben Yosi
ben Yosi ben Yosi ben Yosi that the only
time there's a svara that the only time
perhaps it's true that Rebbe Seira holds
ya'atzar, that's if you
did the kimitzah, but you were never
mikadesh in a klishoris. But once you
mikadesh in a klishoris, at that point
it's going to be a problem. And what's
the svara? Because the klishoris is
or putting it in the klishoris is
mashlim the kimitzah. Once the kimitzah
is nishlam, it comes out we have a
chalois avodah of psul in this korban.
You have no way to unwind that. It's
only if it wasn't put into a second
klishoris. The gemara says mon o shna.
If you can't put it into a second
klishoris, then I can't put it into the
first klishoris. Let the first So the
first teretz is Amram Akiva and so I say
neirus klishoris ein mikachin only das.
And being that when the possul puts the
koinus back into the original klishoris,
it doesn't have a mind to be mikadesh
it. It's for that reason it doesn't get
kedusha. Amram Amram Amram said a
different das. Going to say zero the
baisa kedusha.
He put it into a a klishoris that had
soil less
all the way to the top so that when he
put the komets back it never went inside
the machitzas of the walls of the kayli.
And the only time the klishoris can be
makash is if it's physically within the
walls of the kayli. But being that it
wasn't within the walls of the kayli, so
it's for that reason it didn't have
ability to be makash it. But the mar is
kasha is presumably what this person did
in Ben Basera's case is he did komets
and then he just returned it. So if he
when he returned it it's on top of the
walls of the klishoris that when he did
the komitza he took it from on top of
the walls of the klishoris. Frightened
the mar of the kayli komets law will
make it a komets. Doesn't it mean that
that's how he did the komitza? It's not
a good komitza. Because komitza has to
be from within the walls. So that can't
be the case. I look you going to see the
bissa t'fufa. You have to say it's
talking about where it's not on top
completely on top but rather it's up to
the exact top. So you did the komitza
it's and you put it so that now it's on
top. Meaning the first understanding of
the mar
the entire komets it was just way up it
was way over. And so that the komets
never went inside the walls of the
kayli. In the second terrace of the mar
it's perfect it's exactly up until the
top. Now that you placed it it's going
to be above. What's the what did the mar
accomplish? What the mar accomplished
was is that first the mar thought that
when you did the komitza you were doing
it from on top. Now what the mar is
saying is that when you did the komitza
you did it from within. We did the
komitza you did it from within. So you
took the komets out but it was exactly
up until the top before you did the
komitza. Now that you put the komets
back being that it was exactly up until
the top before you did the komitza now
it's on top of that so now it's going to
be on top.
I don't know if you're following. But
frightened the mar
kim how do we get away the mana koma and
the lay? Frightened the mar I don't
understand. If it was perfectly until
the top and you did the komitza then
when you put the komets back
look it should just go back to where it
was and it should vibrate to be within
side.
When you did the committee, you made a
little hole. Right? You made a little
There's a little ditch inside the cave
now.
When you put it back, it shouldn't be go
back into the hole. The master says no.
What happened was is that you when you
put it back, you put it on the sides. It
was on the wall.
And then it fell on its own. It's as if
a monkey was the one that did it. The
bottom line is you net the coin at place
of back. Had the coin placed it back and
you're right, it would have been there.
But the master said there's a way to do
it. The master said if you want you
didn't If you did the committee so long
You put You didn't put it into a new
You could put it back into the original
one. I when you put it into the original
one is putting into the original is
mashed with the way that So now you have
an avoid this committee so long. It
should make the carbon a problem. You
shouldn't be able to unwind it. The
answer is do it in a way where you're
not physically putting it back in. Put
it back on the side. Let it be knocked
in. And the only way that works is if it
was on top. So you personally never put
it in
within the walls of the original
It got knocked in. There was room for
it. And therefore it's not a big thing
that you yourself the coin didn't put it
in. So he never completed the
So he told
I have a better answer.
We're trying to figure out the law. The
master says just put it back in. But
when you put it back in you can leading
the way that What if I put it into the
original cave I put it into a new cave?
Said the master I have a perfect answer.
Why don't we say it's talking about what
the original is on the cave? And if the
original is on the cave presumably that
doesn't work.
That the way this
only worked if the coin was holding the
original. If the coin wasn't holding the
original it wasn't a good law. You could
argue then that when it comes to
committee it's the same thing. That
putting the comments into the original
which is a very important law maybe only
works if the coin holding the charis. If
he's not holding the charis, maybe it
doesn't work. I don't know. The coin is
holding the charis. Isn't this a riot
that you can do this from a riot
that when it comes to that of the
you don't need the coin to be holding
the
it's okay if it's a coin. That's why we
didn't answer that cuz even if it would
be a coin you would have the same
problem.
So the says told
you not to
you're touching on any
the one that was discussed. Meaning
you're opening up a Pandora's Box. This
is a very big
what's the context of the that
told me
that
told me
that
told me that told me that told me that
over the following
this
the context over there is completely
unrelated we're discussing
that we're telling
they had to follow the steps and had to
make sure they were getting top dollar
fair market value for the
couldn't just sell it. So the regarding
that
said was that if you
they had to put it out there put a
that we're going to sell it to attract
as many buyers as possible. So if they
do it day after day
is enough.
They only did it Mondays and Thursdays
they have to do it 60 days. Bottom line
is that said I was only by and I had
from what does it sound like? I mean he
was the
the gives the patch not the other way
around. My days. So I mean he doesn't
give the
so you see how so I mean he said I
learned by that
said that said that said that said that
said that said that Menaches. So he went
to his house and let him learn.
So he went to his house to go learn by
him. Wait a minute,
if he was his rabbi, why did he have to
go to his talmud? The reason is
basically
shouldn't he have called his talmud and
say you know maybe you can come to me we
can learn together Menaches. So the
reason is he thought so far he must die
and will suffer that if I'm going to go
to my talmud versus my talmud coming to
me, I'll have more of the Shmaya. He
thought it would be better. He'd be more
successful in his understanding of
Menaches if he went to his house rather
than the other way around. Why? Says
Rashi, not even a full line, three
words. Mission you got to
you know what I'm saying. You got to
you know what I'm saying.
You got to you know what I'm saying.
I'll tell you. The only way it works is
if it's you got to so I mean he felt
that if I'm going to go to my talmud,
it's going to be
it's going to be you know what I'm
saying. If my talmud comes to me, I'm
not going to have to work so hard. The
harder you work, the more effort you put
into something, the better chance you
have of being successful. And it's you
do what you want to do with it. In his
words, he said that you see from here
that you got to you know what I'm saying
isn't just in how much a minute you put
into the actual learning, right? You got
to you know what I'm saying. You know
what I'm saying. Okay, so the more you
think about the more the better chance
you have of actually understanding the
more the more time you put into your
learning so the better chance you have
of being learning. He said if that's the
case, what difference would it have made
if went to his house and
went to his house. What would matter is
when he sat down to learn
how much effort was he putting into it?
He said
that you see from here it's not the way.
You got to you know what I'm saying
means the more a person is wasting
effort for his learning. It could be
sometimes quantitatively and it's
sometimes it could be qualitatively and
it could be maybe waking up earlier or
staying up late or focusing when it's
hard to focus. The more you
that a person puts into his learning,
the more he's going to be
successful. the side of the Agra. It's
not just analytically, it's true in
every sense of the word. And therefore,
Avini wanted to be a little bit more
moist than that.
From the fact that it bothered him that
he had forgotten the
he wanted to know it. So he figured
you're got to you
had a way. Let me go to him. You don't
come to me. This way I have a better
chance of being
but the bottom line is Avini learned
by his time with
and he was the one that posed this
question. This was the the shilo. the
part of the story of Avini.
I'm going to tell him the constant.
So he tells him learning by
Kimecha. Tell me how do you do Kimecha?
I'm going to lay. So it was a lay on the
floor. He told him he cleans that. You
would take it out of this Keli. I'm
going to lay so told Avini he comes from
Gabi Gaka. Could you do Kimecha even
from a that's on a on the floor? I'm
going to lay the coin. So he told him no
a coin has to hold it. That's what he
told him. Avini that's what Avini told
him. Apparently he had heard that from
Kista. Kisa
and the office. He asked him of Avini
did how do you do Kiddish for the
meaning the original that's placed into
the original is how do you do that? I'm
going to lay the coin. He pointed to the
same Keli. So he told him Kimecha Gabi
Gaka could you be the
in a Keli that's on the ground? I'm
going to lay so he said no the
no you have to have a coin. I'm going to
lay so he told him. So Avini in Kenu
wow. So he comes that you needed three
for the
because you needed coin to be holding
the is
What's that?
You couldn't use his left hand. That's a
good point. See you need three I'm going
to lay so he told him
so what? You you should need and you 13
you could tell me the needed 13 so
what's the what's so
if the needed three
so he said I'll ask you a question is
this true? They are
coin mates and the coin
and I'm going to lay the matter and
what's the significance of these four
these are the four avoiders of the coin
that are the equivalent to the avoiders
of that. So, if someone a coin does one
of these avoiders,
the lack of the lack of the lack there,
my service people, right? With that
mission over there discussing the laws
of people, it says there's four avoiders
where you can make a carbon people.
What's the cash of the evil might be out
with the coin in it? If you need a coin
to hold the clay shores while you're
doing the committal, we should mention a
fifth avoider cuz you would think it's
an avoider. If a coin has to do it,
should it not be an avoider? Thus, my
service people of that coin that's
holding the clay shores should be able
to make a carbon people and doesn't say
that. Isn't that a right you don't need
a coin? The more it says no. Don't say
that avoider is not given by the city of
Ham. It could be there other avoiders.
True. We're discussing avoiders that
could be done by one coin. Four avoiders
that he himself can do in succession
where he will be able to make a carbon
people. The committal, he can put it
into the cali. He could do the avoider
and he can do the after that to one coin
that could do all four. Now, it's true
there are other coins involved and the
other coin could also have a my service
people. So, if we were going to discuss
that coin, whatever, it'd be different.
But in we're just discussing one coin
that could do four avoiders in
succession that could be my service my
service people. But in a human army,
there are other coins involved in the
preparation of the mincha. It's an
avoider and maybe it could even have a a
my service people. Interesting feeders
what's coming out of this coin that the
coin that was holding the clay shores
according to this sheet that holds a
coin had on the clay shores during the
committal was considered an avoider
that's harsh enough. You could have not
all avoiders could have my service
people. For example, I say more and
there's no people in which we got to
run. That's usually we're accustomed to
thinking that avoider. So, here you
having a mincha an anomaly. Either way,
my name is Shisha. The same question was
asked Shisha.
You do committal from a kill that's on
the ground. I'm a lazy told him. Why
don't you go to the base of the garden
and see what they do? Now, Shisha didn't
mean it literally cuz he lived way after
the base of the garden.
But learn and
right, travel down the the
of them and and be in the proverbial
base hamikdash and see what is and
so he just said his followers, what do
you see in
the
about
the
four that would go in every
during the changing of the guard of the
so we know the
had 12 loaves of bread. Additionally,
there were
and every
the would take the
they would be
take it from the
and when they were
the
of last week that stayed fresh
miraculously throughout the week was now
able to be eaten. So every during the
four
that we're going to have to enter the
two of them
base and two of them were holding the
six loaves of breads respectfully. The
other two were holding The other two
were holding the two
this is for the new breads. The other
four and
then there were four that had to be
before them. Two
to take the two
the loaves of breads from the previous
week who basically
and two to take the
from the previous week. What's the the
doesn't say that there was a there that
had to hold up the hand.
What's the
the
is that we know a little bit and we'll
be more familiar with this as we go
through the of this that putting the
onto the to be
and to be
was considered
it was the
okay
what the bigger is that removing the
from the
was the equivalent to the
if
if that's the case then if there's a
that when you do in the a has to be
holding the
from where you doing the
there should be a that when you remove
the
vino from the
that a coin should have to be holding
the hand. and
said that I went into the proverbial
and I found the
that there were eight
for doing this for doing that but there
wasn't a ninth but you need a ninth coin
holding up the coin. You see you don't
need to be holding the
while you do the
says why is that different than the
previous
love
said that
I can say that
we just asked the
from the four of when you can have a
and it didn't mention the coin holding
and what did we say because we're
discussing that
so here too we're discussing the
so we're not mentioning this ninth coin
that has to be holding the maybe you did
have to have a ninth coin holding the
the we don't it's not true hustle
hustle hustle hustle hustle hustle
hustle hustle hustle Then this is not
talking about
when it said four it didn't mean four
what did it mean four of
where one coin could have a
again over here we're discussing
about
this about
we're discussing the meaning of so if
there was a ninth coin and
listening
to me to
go
to me my
treat the coin to
go to the
that you can be
from a coin to go to
the coin to go to the coin to go to the
coin to go to the coin to go to the coin
to go to the because you find from the
nobody picked up the
when they removed the
from the
so you see from there that you could be
you could do
even when it's
additionally catching
the coin to go to the coin to go to the
coin to go to the coin to go to the coin
to go to the coin to go to the coin to
go to the coin to go to the coin to go
to the coin to go to the coin to go to
the coin to go to the coin to go to the
coin to go to the the entire coin to go
to the coin to go to the coin to go to
the coin to go to the coin to go to the
coin to go to the coin to go to the coin
to go to the coin to go to the coin to
go to the coin to go to the coin to go
to the coin to go to the coin to go to
the coin to go to the coin to go to the
coin to go to the coin to go to the coin
to go to the coin to go to because
that's what you find by the
that's what you find when they put the
entire
in the
that's the equivalent of the entire
mincha. When they put it on the
klishores again, there wasn't a cohen
holding it. But Rava but Rava said what
I'm not sure about Rava said this I'm
sure this I know this I'm not sure.
Kiddush chaim mates my could you be
mekadesh the chaim mates in a klishores?
That's agav karka. Maybe there you do
need a cohen to hold it. Me mincha yafin
and there he had no raya from the
shulchan cuz there is no equivalent in
the shulchan. Right? There's an
equivalent in the shulchan
to the mincha. You could draw the
parallel
of being mekadesh the entire mincha.
Where is the equivalent in the shulchan?
Putting everything on the shulchan. Do
you have the equivalent of the kumitzah
by the mincha? Removing the baziv from
the shulchan. But taking the kumitz and
putting it in the second klishores there
is no parallel. There's no the
equivalent there of when it comes to the
shulchan. That's the shulchan went on to
the mizbeach. The mizbeach wasn't a
keili. So of course nobody was going to
hold the mizbeach. We're discussing
klishores not discussing mizbeach. So
the question is I don't know what to do.
So Rava said I have two shitos what are
my shitos? Me mincha yafin alah. Do you
say just like the original kiddush of
the mincha could be done agav karka you
don't need a cohen to hold the
klishores. The second kiddush of the
mincha when you take the kumitz and put
it in the klishores the same thing. O me
dami al finah alah. Maybe you learn it
from that. And just like the kabala of
the dam definitely had to be done while
a cohen holding it. Right? Me kabala of
the alach.
Mitzvah big huna. Avoda is like a kabala
is an avoda. Of course you need a cohen
that's avoda. So you need a cohen so
maybe the second kiddush of the mincha
should be the same thing. Shmag shaila.
So Rava wasn't sure. The second kiddush
of the mincha should compared to the
first kiddush of the mincha it could be
agav karka. How do I know that? I know
that from the shulchan. Or maybe not
maybe the second kiddush of the mincha
that's the equivalent of the kabala of
the dam. So maybe just like the kabala
of the dam needs to be held this too. So
the gemara says halder poshta. Rava was
poshet the shaila and what did he say?
Me dami al finah alah. You learn it from
dam. And just like dam a cohen has to be
holding the klishores when you mekadesh
the dam. So too here you're going to
have to be holding it. So again why are
we discussing this? Because the Gemara
is going to digress now. The reason
we're discussing this is we're going
back to the original shaila. Where
Ben Bezalel said a hidnush. Ben Bezalel
in the Mishnah. That was further
elaborated on by Rav in the Gemara. But
the the halacha is mamesh in the
Mishnah. The Mishnayos, you have to
spend Bezalel already. Where Ben Bezalel
says a halacha that if you did kemitzah
with your left hand, and in the braisa
it's mefurash Ben Bezalel didn't only
mean the left hand, he meant all pesula.
The halacha is if you can put it back
into the mincha and then just do a
proper kemitzah the second time. Just
because you did a pesula kemitzah
doesn't mean you can't fix it moving
forward. You can fix it. Just stick it
back. You can't fix the shchita and a
melika. And there's a lot of avodos you
have no way of fixing. This you can fix.
So, fix it. Put it back in. Stating that
some time now I'm held with you the
hanachah. But that the only time that's
true is if you didn't put it into the
second klishos. But once you put it to
the second klishos, because when you put
the kemitzah into a klishos, that
completes the avodah. The Gemara says,
"I'm one of shok." If putting it into
the klishos completes the kemitzah, and
now you have a chawisa avodah pesula in
this mincha that you can't undo, then
how can you put it back into the
original klishos? Putting it back to the
original klishos is going to be the same
thing. And the Gemara has three
terutzim. That's what emerges from the
sugya. The first terutz is Rav Yochanan
on zai say meres klishos ain mekadesh el
midas. That being that when you put it
back into the original klishos, your
intent wasn't to give it the kedusha
that it needs for the haktarah.
To the contrary, it's to undo what you
did. So, you didn't have the kavana that
you would need when you put it into the
second klishos. By putting it into the
first klishos, because in your mind
you're not putting it into a second
klishos. You're undoing what you did.
So, you need kavana for the klishos to
be mekadesh it. Your kavana is not to be
mekadesh it so that it has the kedusha
to continue with the avodah. It's just
the opposite. Your kavana is to unwind
what you did. Klishos is only mekadesh
midas. Second terutz the Gemara said was
an akimta. The akimta was where you put
it in a way it was it was filled to the
top. You created a ditch. You put it on
the side of that ditch. it fell in by
itself. You never put it in. If you
didn't put it in, it never got kedusha.
The third suggestion that the Gemara
said was, maybe it's talking about with
the the klishores was like agav karka.
That's the way of Eretz Yisrael held you
could do it. Put it when the klishores
is like agav karka. You can't be
mekadesh a mincha if the klishores is
like agav karka. Is that true? So,
that's this whole arichus. The last
thing we saw was Rava. Rava said, yeah.
Cuz Rava said that even if you could be
mekadesh the original mincha when it's
agav karka, even if you could do
kemitzah when it's agav karka, but the
second kidush that the coin does that
the coin has to be holding. Cuz the
second kidush we don't compare it to the
original kidush of the mincha, we
compare it to the avodas hakabala of the
of the zevach. That's this last Gemara.
Either way, that sort of concludes that
part of the sugia. But the Gemara
digresses now. Says the Gemara, "U mi
amar Rava hachi?" Did Rava say that we
compare this the second kidush of the
mincha to the avodas hakabala of the
dam? Is that true?
But how could you say that? For it says
"Koimitz she chokoi bishnei keilim."
Let's say the kemitzah was put into two
keilim. So, you did kemitzah, you have
to be mekadesh in the klishores. But
instead of putting it into one
klishores, you put it into two
klishoreses. Rav Nachman in a kodesh,
Rava mekadesh. Rav Nachman says it's not
kodesh, Rava said it is kodesh. What's
the kasha? "Dein eisa." If you're going
to tell me that you that there's a
comparison, there's a parallel between
the second kidush of the kemitzah
mincha, meaning the kidush of the
koimitz, and the avodas hadam. "May I
lift me dam?" Then shouldn't you have to
learn from dam that dam, just like you
find you can't be mekadesh it in in two
klishoreses, it has to all be done in
one klishores, then the mincha should
have to be the same thing. Says the
Gemara, "Hodu be Rava mayai." You're
right, Rava was choizer. Rava must have
been choizer, says the Gemara. "V'dam
minon lo kol she chazon." How do you
know that you can't be mekadesh dam in
two klishoreses? Maybe the dam you could
also be mekadesh in two klishoreses.
"Tani Rav Tachlifa ben Shaul." And from
here until the bottom of the amud is
verbatim Zevachim daf tzadik gimel amud
bet. We learned this together. Tony Rev
Takhleefa Ben Shaw Kideish b'shochas
mikteih hazoh b'klizei, u'pochas mikteih
hazoh b'klizei like Kideish. Rev
Takhleefa Ben Shaw said that when the
Kohain was mikadeish the may chatas for
the parah adumah, he had to be mikadeish
all the mayan in one kelis. We saw many
times in Maseches Zevachim there was a
shaila in the Gemara if there was a
shiyur in may chatas hazoh tzu k'shiyur
hazoh in tzu k'shiyur. But he had to be
mikadeish the entire shiyur hazoh in one
keli. If you were mikadeish pochas
mikteih hazoh b'klizei, u'pochas mikteih
hazoh b'klizei lo kideish. We bought
with that myan. What about that? Do you
have the same halacha you have to be
mikadeish all the dam
that you're going to use for z'rikah in
one keli, or could I do the kabalah in
two separate kelim? What's the study
halacha? The hilchos the fact that you
have to be mikadeish all the may chatas
in one keli, is that halacha l'Moshe
miSinai? If that's the case, we have to
learn halacha from halacha l'Moshe
miSinai.
I don't know some might tell me maybe
that halacha by may chatas is not
halacha l'Moshe miSinai. It's brought
down from a pasuk d'ksiv "tovel
b'mayan", and we learn from there that
the t'vilah has to be in mayan, but in
the same concentration of mayan that you
had b'shas kidosh. So when the Kohain
does t'vilah b'mayan for the parah
adumah, obviously the shiyur is there
cuz he's going to do the t'vilah, he's
going to do the hazoh. There must be the
whole shiyur there. So "v'tovel b'mayan
sh'hayah kvar", that that shiyur mayan
that you have now by shas t'vilah, you
had already b'shas kidosh. Maybe that's
the makor. Plus you see you can't be
mikadeish in two kelim. If that's the
case, "achinam yotzei v'tovel b'dam". So
maybe you have the same too. "V'tovel
b'dam" to do the hazohs, you need the
same amount now that you had b'seider
b'shas kabalah you had "s'zeh im rabim
amar Rav Zeira amar Rav Huna amar Rav
Ada bar Ahavah "kideish". Even the dam
it's a problem. Amar Rav Nachman amar
Rabbah said I it's m'furash b'braisa. It
says "v'tovel b'dam". "V'tovel" we learn
"v'lo maspik", that you can't
clean your hand, you can't scrape your
hand on the klishores in order to do his
reka. Bedam, what does bedam teach me?
Shehei bedam shiyur tfilos mekaros, that
bishas kabala you already have to have
the shiyur
tfilo that you're going to have bishas
tahaza. Min adam teaches me a third
halacha. Min adam shibeyinyan. The
gemara's going to explain. Says the
gemara, "Itsrich lemichtav betaval,
itsrich lemichtav bedam." Let me explain
to you what these three drashos are.
Now, first the first two. Betaval
teaches me valo yimaspeik.
Then bedam teaches me bedam shiyur
mekaros. Because rachmana betaval, what
does betaval mean? Betaval means that
you can't scrape it. It has to be a
tree, you have to dunk it into the
liquid part of the dam. You can't put
your finger, scrape the wall of the
klishores, and take the dam that way.
That teaches me that. But I still need
betaval. Because hava mina I would have
thought aval achas lo yikipul shiyur
tfilos. Betaval teaches me that you need
the entire shiyur bishas hakabala. I
don't know that from betaval. Because
rachmana bedam, because rachmana had had
the dam, hava mina I would have thought
tfilos maspik. Because rachmana betaval.
Right, get two completely different
drashos. It's even a chiddush why the
gemara has to go through this exercise
of itsrich beitsrich. Two completely
different halachos. Betaval teaches me
that you have to dunk it, you can't
scrape it off the walls.
Bedam teaches me that bishas kabala you
already had to have the entire shiyur
tfilo. Thus I need betaval, I need bedam
because they're not the same drashos.
What was the third limud in this braisa?
It says min adam and we learn from there
min adam shibeyinyan. What does that
mean? Lemutei mai? O mai rabba rabba
again can split explain lemutei shiyur
beetzba. That in between tfilos that was
done in tfilos that were done 11:43,
right? All the different tfilos that
would always be done with the finger of
the kohen. Throughout his avodas, he
would have to wipe his hand in between
tfilos because the shiyurim that were
left over on his finger were pasul. And
that's what min adam teaches me the
mu'utei dam shibeyinyan. What does dam
shibeyinyan mean? It means the shiyurim
shibeyinyan. The gemara says on that,
"No, misayim levalos." O mai rabba rabba
said shiyur beetzba pasul. The shiyurim
of the etzba is pasul. Amrei rabba bar
adah levrabba, "Ambi talmido, I heard
from your talmidim who said
>> and a little bit of dam fell off his
hand. And it went on a beged. And the
halacha is dam chatos.
She he's on a beged ton kibbos. And
that's why this is the
context
over there. So what happens is dam
chatos that he's on a beged, what's the
halacha? You have to be mechabes the
beged related to
say and so nice there maybe, right? We
spoke about but but dam chatos that's
needed on a beged, you have to mechabes
the beged. Now the only time that's true
is if the dam is
but if it's dam possul or if you already
did hazah with this dam, at that point
you don't have this halacha. So that's
the context.
The
hazah me yadai and the dam that he's
doing hazah with fell off his finger
imagine and it went on the beged.
Imagine he's a if it fell on the beged
before the hazah ton kibbos cuz it's dam
that's the regular hazah, you need to be
mechabes the dam. Misha he's a if you
did the hazah already ain't ton kibbos.
At that point you don't have to do
kibbos. Says the Gemara my level we say
actually he's a what does that mean?
Actually gomar hazah outside. It means
you didn't do all the hazah yet. And
what does it mean when we say she he's a
or misha gomar hazah outside? It means
he did all the hazah. You know what I'm
trying to get across but
you see the
bus kosher cuz what does it sound like?
It sounds like if the coin's doing zayin
hazahs right now with one of the parma
the strofim. What the hazah is up in the
ears. And he's in middle of the seventh.
He did four and then a little bit of dam
from his finger after the fourth hazah
fell on his beged ton kibbos. The
dam is the bus. And if you're going to
tell me that
it's possul that's from a possuk min
hadam dam should be in it. She
comes at that dam is not
if it's not
you don't have the halacha dam chatos.
Dam chatos ton kibbos is only dam that's
regular hazah. Says the Gemara maybe you
know if you see that as long as the coin
didn't complete doing all emphasis on
all all the
the is that any done that falls from his
finger on his bag it during the process
of the ice
would trigger the of this gibberish
that's a right that you
was kosher it must be that right
but the Gamara says why maybe that's not
what the price of means when the price
says actually
I mean actually
that gibberish and when it says
it means
it needs to be gibberish and
when we say actually
we don't mean all we don't mean the
entire set of seven we're looking at
individual the price is discussing each
other you bet the coin does feel
he's holding the he has to do one of the
seven or one of the 11 or one of the 16
or one of the 43 or the 47 or the 48 all
the different sheets he has to do one
has but we're looking at each individual
has if you didn't do that yet and the
down falls on your bag it gibberish cuz
that down is right you didn't do that
yet if you did that has that has and the
down falls on your bag it even though
you have another 42 to go it doesn't
matter that is going to be ain't on
gibberish cuz that down is possible it's
your
one more cash is your government
if you completed doing the
mechanical
the gibberish
so this is the coin that's doing the of
the
he's standing on the basin no play on
your mind he has seven that he has to do
so he finishes doing the
he takes his finger and he wipes or his
hand and he wipes it on the part
interesting that's what he does and the
reason he did it is cuz the Torah says
that you had to burn the Aduma and it
says
everything had to be burnt together says
the Gamara Gamara
sounds like the only time he has to wipe
his hand is when he finishes doing all
the hazaz. But until he finishes the
hazaz, in between hazaz, you don't have
to wipe. Why don't you have to wipe?
Shirayam etzba. He gets all mixed up.
It's not even a real hazaz, right? I
mean, that's hazaz. It's avoda mishka.
Okay. But the point is, the it's not a
There's a din shirayam etzba. So you
should have to wipe it even in between.
Amale. So he says, "No. Of course you
always have to wipe it. You have to wipe
it in between hazaz." What does it mean
then? The braisa, when it says only goma
milah hazaz, goma milah yoda.
Loy goma milah etzba. The braisa wipe
your whole hand. You don't have to wipe
your whole hand after in between hazaz.
You only have to wipe your whole hand
when you finish. Why do you have to wipe
your whole hand when you finish? Cuz all
the dam, you have to get everything.
Right? You have to literally get
everything to make sure that it also
They literally search for every little
yad forensics getting all the dam to
make sure that everything is going to be
burnt, cuz that's what the Torah says.
You have to take every part of the party
you have to burn it. That's when Only
true when you're done. In between hazaz,
you just have to be sensitive to your
finger. So goma milah hazaz, mikaneach
yoda. Loy goma milah hazaz, there's
still an issue of the shirayam etzba. So
you're still going to have to be
mikaneach etzba.
Bishlam when you finish everything,
mikaneach yoda bishlam para. You
mikaneach your yad with the gosha para.
The sares para ainav. Elo loy goma
mikaneach etzba, mikaneach etzba. So we
know how you mikaneach yad when you
finish doing all the hazaz. You
mikaneach with the entire para. When you
mikaneach etzba in between hazaz, how
did you do that? Rashi says it would
have been very impractical to go to the
para. Apparently, the para wasn't on Har
Hamishka. The coin wasn't on it. So
every in between all the hazaz, they had
to go down the mountain and climb back
up. Amarbai bishlam mizrach, the way
they did it was they used the klisharis.
Kishlam again, this is something
mentioned throughout Sifrei Kippurim
Zev.
Kippurim milashon, wiping, washing. So
you would The coin would wipe his
finger. So why do we have this whole
sugya with the klisharis? Why do we have
this whole sugya here? So again, going
back to the original shaila. The shaila
was that Rava is comparing and equating
and drawing a parallel between the aveda
kabala of dam and the aveda of taking
the coin and putting it putting it into
a
and the jumped on rubber. How could
rubber draw that parallel? Rubber seemed
to suggest that you can take the coin
and put it into two independent races.
Yet we know you can't do the
sadam into
races. You have to have all of it in one
races. He said you're right.
Rubber must have made a from that and
then he was like how do you know you
can't do into
races? It's this price of the
one of the we learned three from here.
What one is is that when the coin did
the
he
took his finger he stuck it into the he
couldn't wipe it on the walls of the he
had to put it into the liquid part of
the
number two is that he couldn't be
the into
races. He had to have the whole share in
one race.
That's the one we needed for our
number three is he now had to use the
that was that last digression of the
part.