Menachos 18

Today's is and we will begin about 15 lines from the bottom of so the recording got cut off at the end of yesterday's do mids sentence. Soak will go back and pick up where the recording left off and that is the Gmorra was discussing and if somebody had a pigle but it was the sayza says and there was a discussion in the Gmorra whether she rebzz on the level or on The durabon level on the one handi said that is he learns it from the pigle. It says the mysteriously is describing to but the point is that the refers to as which you would think is an unconventional word to describe. Why did the terror use the word to be to the real and to tell me that it doesn't matter if you switch either way it's going to be based on that would seem that you don't need on the level stating that the same said in the name of his said that the was only at the level so the suggest that it could be what's this tells of if somebody who did the had a mind not to do with the dam but rather to drink the dam to take the bos that ordinarily was eaten and to be to that ordinarily would put on his and this had in mind to eat. In other words, he had in mind to eat or to be that's our this continues says the what if the was not to drink the blood but rather it was just to leave the dam around says that is going to be possible said I told that in that case too it's going to be meaning according to it's going to be according to it's going to be possible says the who was yehud going according to when he said that if the co had a mind just to leave the around the is going to be possible meaning which one of the was he going to that hold what that the only time from is pig It's and let's pick the case that's most relevant to this. In other words, if to drink the to drink the it's going to be caution. Now if said that if the would have a mind simply to leave the d around and he said it according to the it doesn't make sense why he would have to actually drink the would be if he hasn't mind merely to leave it around then certainly it has to be because in the And if the hold that if the had a mind to have the d around tomorrow and to drink it then certainly if the only had to leave the dam is that it should be it must be saying okay that holds that it doesn't have to be mean if the had a mind to drink the it's going to be he has even a big even if If he didn't have a mind to drink, even if he just had a to leave it around for tomorrow, that too would be what's the third. This is the he said that we just proved only could have said meaning when said that if to leave the dam it's going to be possible. He meant but according to it's going to be what did say what's the mind to leave the d for tomorrow it's going to be it's going to be what's the there must be some difference then says you know might be maybe is whether or not according to when is it a real isle that there's going to be or is it not a real in other words did is on the level or did he say it on the rabon level? The Yehuda must have held he held that this sh of leaving the tomorrow is not because when the was even holds it's gonna be inud's case where he only has to leave it around until tomorrow it's only going to be possible. You know was he said no this is the rebel in the cuz he holds I agree with you that to leave the dam to tomorrow is only possible but is also only going to be poss is it's true said his only according to and was saying that is only true according to what's the difference the difference is that is according to the Same reb that holds pigle by is going to hold if the was simply to leave it around was coming to say no it's meaning that just like holds what he holds by that's exactly what he's going to hold over here in other words just like here he holds it's only so to there it's going to be poss but the bottom line is this bryo which is a little bit unclear which has a rabel Raud and we're not really sure what is argues the maybe the is whether was on a level thus it's going to be or it's only level it's going to be but the says it could be everybody holds that there's only level and as a result even though says throughout it's he means but What then is going on in this bride? So there's some is going on that's unclear. If that's not the everybody holds a coin there's no chorus. What is the there's a three-way is going on holds that. Now if it was that's 101. If it was going to be it's going to be what if the wasn't even it was it was just that the d is going to be around tomorrow. Everyone's going to hold chimed in and said just the opposite. I agree that there's a But when it comes I hold if the was just to leave it around even meaning it's actually worse to think that the dam should be around tomorrow and bele than it is to think that you're going to drink the because in the what's the we're going to go into in much greater depth when we get into the raid but for Now the words it's because holds that any time a has to do something to a part of a carbon that's going to make the carbon possible. The to make the carbon possible in and of itself makes the carbon possible. This is known as a specialish that the always given is but that's only a point is any to make a carbon would be a problem. So if you had that the should be around is it would beer as a result the dam would be possible and even though the dam is only possible if all the waser and over here you only but that if the dam would be nicer the carbon would be possible. So it's going to be possible as well. Well, the point is was saying even according to that is not it's not but there's a new concept of going to be the third and he said that the isle It's also going to be poss and this is there's a three-way. Do you say everybody holds that's the do you say everybody holds that's the third is the who held that whether is or is in the even though at first glance they seem to be two independent one is a one is a question do you need stating that the two So before we get into some of the lice brings is that true apostle is it possible the way the just explained this price that said his he was saying it according to everybody again what was just to be clear we know that there are different types of he said if a client has while he's doing the possible that's exhibit A. It's the first it's the first has in mind the wrong type of carbon or the wrong of the carbon. Sometimes it's there are a few exceptions where is that it's actually going to be possible. Another example is a pickle. If it's a carbon, he did the there are other examples of he had his own example of it's known as the head of that during the course of the he's going to manipulate the carbon that the carbon is going to be possible. The example of is he has in mind that he's not going to do when he's supposed to do he's going to leave the now he never had a mind to do this that's he just had a mind that I'm not going to do this when I'm supposed to do it right the first half of the I'm not going to do this it's going to be around until tomorrow morning I won't do this he didn't go there but the dam is going to be pos because dam is once the sun sets on the dam it becomes it's the Point is is that he had in mind that the carbon should be possible holds that for the carbon to be possible renders the carbon possible. The argued the question is this the came out that holds that everybody in meaning in Yeud's world nobody arg everybody held is going to be possible says could be said. So what did this these two mean? So the first says is that said that I was going to be by Shamu. So Shamua was obviously a big so big that rebi had a bunch of shas. He would go to talk and learning with Shamua to be push the fake that he had during the course of this month. as he was learning he had a a list of things he wasn't sure about and he said I would go to Shamu to be my alternatively the second which is interesting Rashi says is that Rebi was going to hear from Shamua the things that Shamua knew more than Rebi so Rebi was like saying I know more than me he wanted to go but the point is he was going to learn by I found was sitting and he was learning with him That's an expression of some sorts. The point is really really liked. So went and he asked him the question sorry is the one talking. So he asked if somebody and he has in mind that the is going to be what's he told him. Now the gumar tells the longer version of this exchange. The first time he asked him the question was at night arvis. He said what's told him? He asked him again in the morning. So what's he told him? So he told him that yeah it's but the fourth time he asked him the question he said oh FYI rebel hold it. So the Gmorra said that when he heard him tell him he was so excited he was mish he didn't know what to do with himself. So told I must have told you something now that you didn't hear before just based on your reaction. Hey yes I'm going to tell you the rest of the story. I had heard from Yehuda that my said that and I've been asking around to try to find anyone else that heard that there's something called and I couldn't hear and no one told this to me. Now that you told me that there's a holder, you gave me back something that I had lost. So the gar says manu heard how excited was and how much he cared about his learning and there was one that he knew he heard for everybody denied it but he knew he heard it and finally he hears it and he and he's reacting. So he got all emotional. and he was blown away by by the the drama and the excite. He just couldn't believe he couldn't believe his reaction. What's the cash? And and he didn't and he told him he goes, "I want to tell you why Rabuda why you heard this from Rab Yehuda." Because Yehuda's father was who little history is the Tanner was a of who? He was a rabbi. So you should know you're right told this to you. But the rest of the story is it was real. But why would being saved in the name? We know. So why was he saying he says you want to know the rest of the story because father was and was father's rebi had to he said he was so excited with what he told him and it's for that reason what's if it's true like thinks in the second that what didn't say that was who said that he knew But himself said even according to the he wasn't because wasn't telling where told him what did hear from he heard that according to everybody there's something called and what was he essentially telling him he was telling him that according to It's going to be possible not according to says the you want to tell me that what that what he had heard was really it's how do you understand he seemed to have been telling him that you want to know why you heard this meaning how do you understand what was saying was telling right is then why is so excited it's not heard from we just said that his says I hear. So you want to tell me literally that was telling him it's if was telling him it's then why did he tell him that the reason your father told this to you or the reason told this is because he had a to say over rebelazzar is just a dio if he was only telling him that if he was pasing rebel I understand the gishm but it's anyways and he told him both shittas so where's the gishak in rebelzar that oh you want to know I told you rebelzar because he had he told he told them both says he told him again the way the gumar settles this is that that's for sure that and wasn't necessarily telling him the reasonab was excited was is because he was trying to find just some smoo somewhere in the world anyone that heard of something called and nobody had heard of it. At least he heard that there's something called and as a result and got all emotional is one of the inch that discuss the primary source. Of course in sh is over there the brings it's a and has a a lengthy detailed discussion understanding again what's is if a client is doing the avoid and he has in mind during the course of the avoid that he's doing that he's going to leave over from the dam beyond the time that it's allowed to be left over. We know there's aer in a carer becomes nicer become nicer becomes nicer. Ber becomes nicer if you leave it over beyond the prescribed time. Theim need to be burnt during the night were burnt at night. that's when they there's an idea of that if you reach something over beyond its time it becomes possible also becomes possible when does become possible with this it's actually going to come up in a few here as well one of the places where discusses his right the two his when exactly night is is in the It's one of the places that is mentioned in but the bottom line is is becomes possible once comes the gets. So just like can have so essentially the is going to become according to it's not it's not possible holds something called the discusses my time and the initially brings the and then the says what's the isome Who the hell that being that if the dam would physically be noiser the would be possible which means the carbon would be possible if you have a to make a carbon possible it's as if the carbon actually became possible makes that's if that's the case then why did say and the starts firing questions at meaning anytime you have to do something that would render the carbon posal. It should be and the carbon should be pos. And theor starts asking questions. One of the questions theor asks is if a had in mind that someone that's not allowed to eat from the boss is going to eat from the bos. Someone that's not allowed to be same. So we should look at it as if a to just did as if an or just ate the kachum and it should be possible and says two roots. The first theor says is who cares if a eats from does it make the carbon boss? No mitzvah if an would be it wouldn't make the carbon boss and that's what we need for this morning's raid says the two words sounds familiar. What does kime mean? It's not him. He can't control that. So if a has in mind that he's going to do something that's beyond to do. So over there over there there's a it's going to be but if a has in mind that anal or a to is going to do something he's not the he's not the tasted are going to do what he said that he's going to do as a result you don't have the so I'm going to tell you something that I saw last night in the safer of the brisker of and it ties into a lid that we've spoken about I think it's to repeat the raid even though we've repeated it already we haven't just said it we've repeated it already but it's just to come full circle and put it all together and it's beautiful clear briskness and that is that says that even who holds there's something called but it's only if the was to make the carbon pel in a way where he can control making the carbon possible but if he has no control over this method that he was thinking it's not going to be possible as the in the first of the Third parag that being that is if would do and he would have the car would be bos said the sounds to me like if the would and he would have in mind that he's going to or that a's going to be or that the is going to do this the carbon is going to be possible and the brisk asked it's not he can't do the hakaro he can't do this and he's having a mind that a kay's going to do the hakar the kay's going to do this But that's not in his control. How can he control what the coin's going to do? He's going to get the coin to be just like we're saying that a coin that will be why because he's not the oral. So tasty the is going to listen to him over there then as every is the one having the doing the he'll have a mind that himself going to do the but over here the zor is doing the can't do the is having a mind's going to do it the problem is why didn't you say he said it's pigle is the one is that if you have certain that makes the carbon possible. What kind of you have to be thinking about right all the raid. But the point at the end of the day, what does it boil down to? You did an avoid and you had a very very bad. You had a hearer. You had a very very bad and your zor is what makes the carbon possible. Now says the briskov doesn't matter so much if that is something that you could have would have should have done. I don't really care. It's the itself that's possible. says the who the hell that if the dam would be the carbon would be possible if you have a to make the noise it's also possible what's the lness the lumbness is because this type of right this when it comes to using those words loosely But the point is we see it up as if it actually happened. You don't just see it, you see it up as if it actually happened. So having that allows us to see because if it's beyond then I can but if it's not then you don't have a right. So said that the only time in that you find this concept of is why half of talks about so why is it that in one place tucked away it's two words in the middle of a dense that the throws in the has to be it's a it's a it's it's a very important it's a very important in the laws of and really more than pickle. So how come it's not mentioned over there has nothing to do with mash's pickle mash's pickle the doesn't have to be the alone is what's making the carbon it's only after the was so you need a that we can actually see is if you could do it okay then I can see in the it's as if you did it already it's but if it's not something that is in your control so why is This related to rate we've spoken at in the past because we've spoken that a few times already from not that way that just to go through this very very quickly how could ever work that it's not the controls the but rather it's the that's every time a woman is standing in the azara. She's about to drink from the because of the suffic that maybe she was mis in the event that she knows she's mis brings the cano as the let her have a pigle if she has a pigle the cano is not going to work if it's not going to work it won't be because we know the is what was and as a result the carbon is going to be possible so every woman that's she has a way of dingo from drinking from the me let her have a piggle so we spoke out Kanyevski that said that the terret is positing said 82 roots into discussion. This wasn't one of them and said no I have a push the terret the terret is that but that's the says that that in order for a person to have it has to be something that's what is pickle is this woman going to have the only types of pickle now that we're learning is we can understand this a little bit better. What would be the the would be the bringing the and he has a mind either to be the ora can't have a mind to be and she can't have a mind to eat have to have a mind that a is going to do it. So you have co but you have co it's not a machi understood that even though the said with regards to but of course it applies to as well the other we always speak where the discusses are they considered mazik do they have to pay that or not it's told in the sh of nickerme orzer hezer orz regardless says it in the context of why also could also be that's the first mission in the third parag could have a pickle as well of course could have a mash but a zar can never be a mazic as why because the says that the only time you could have a mash up sell us if it's something that you can control. The only mache is pickle that a zar can ever control would be cuz how do you have a mach with a carbon to eat the boser to be to do to do the only one of those four things that a can ever do is eat the baser but even that he could only eat the boser if it's his carbon if it's his carbon and he had he's not a maz you can't be mazik yourself now let it be but you're not a maz you don't pay yourself right it doesn't make any sense it's not anyways this is moment so the bottom line is is You're never going to be a mazic if you're the only time it's negle and was a mazic if it was a because if it was it would never again it's all presupposing that is true not just for is true for as well stating that in bris they don't learn that way in bris they say over from the brisk they say this in that the briskar assume that it's that the talked away of olive said regarding on is because in the world of you have to see in the and for that it has to be because if it's not how do you bridge that gap from the it's over there that the uttered the immortal words but as it relates to an ordinary never going to find this idea Not that way. Either way, there's more to talk about on this note. I'm sure we'll get to that the next uh one day. Let's go back to as we turn our attention from the suggest about if the wasn't done. So one of the that was done with a carbon m was what was you pour the oil on the mah again how was the mka prepared started off with a kishar you put oil in a kishar then you added soyus you put more oil you mixed it known as bala then you added a third serving of oil that's what's known as so the iso that was done in the carbon and the discusses what happens There was no believer. There was certain before the kam was done had to be cut up, had to be chopped up, right? That was the mikdash. One of the three that were done in the B mikdash was the kim specifically the kamar with the big pieces of baked bread because it couldn't be and and it had to be it couldn't be yaser. It had to be perfect. Nothing is allowed to be protruding from the sides. And had to use his his thumb and his pinky to somehow smoothen that out. That was the that was done after the so or if the wasn't salted before it was put on the bay if it wasn't wasn't or there was done but it wasn't the explain what that means there was certain that had to be smeared with oil is if it wasn't done it's going to be cautious. So basically a whole list of mistakes that were done in this bottom line is right it sounds like this list would be possible but no is what do we mean when we say doesn't mean that you don't have to do at all it can't be it says that it's now Rashi says it really doesn't say anywhere that it's but the First says this, it says twice that you have to do and the rule in so the Mishna can't be saying is going to be because which means that it's says what means to say that doesn't have to be done with it can be done with when it says does it also mean that you have to do when is it if it was up but the Point is, you has to do it at the very least because tonight we're going to the and everybody knows this. Even though first glance doesn't sound like you never heard this before, everybody knows this. So, how big could a be? So, is if you want you can add to the you could add up to 60. 60 you could, but 61 you can't. What's the reason? Because if you have 60, it's going to be possible to do the mitzvah of bal. But once you have 61, it's not going to be possible to do the mitzvah anymore. Rash means two. Exactly. What's what this means? Does it mean that you're going to have 60 of together with the one log of she that you were supposed to have? Rash has a second you added a log of she for every that you have. So there's going to be 60 lugan of she as well. stating that 60 with 60 lug you can mesh once you have 61 even though proportionately you have the same amount of oil as you do if you would only have one is with one but still it's going to be tricky but the bottom line is ask who cares that if you have 61 you're not going to be able to do the It's it's true on the one hand you find that on the other hand you find how do you reconcile that what you need is that it should be if it's if you have 60 with it's you could do the then it's going to be if you have 61 even though you can't do the it's over there. What's the bottom line? What do you see from here? That as long as then mean that when the mission says, you don't have to do you need that it should be but you don't physically have to do it. What's the kasha? The kasha is that if doesn't mean you don't have to do the it just means that a doesn't have to do the then to be consistent should also mean not that you don't have to do the in other words you do have to do the it just means that doesn't have to do it I know but says what kind of is that when the says have to do that mean doesn't have to do When it says that means something else. Now this idea of is is something that's going to be discussed in greater detail. It's a it comes from as in the mitzvah of and that's that's where it comes from. So we'll discuss in when we get to the later in the but just one point and that is is that this principle of is applied to many different areas in the truth is you have to know when to apply the principle and when not to apply the a principle that's something that that's always but the throughout the throughout mentions this principle of I mean just one example just to bring out the point of how far the garra will sometimes go right? We know that is when it comes to so ask and all the fester when you learn it feels like eons ago but when you're learning of especially in the beginning is that if a star brings from said that this just means that you have to be able to say but you don't physically have to say [ __ ] and says that as long as you're someone that can theoretically get up in bed and testify in court and say even if you write it it's going to be okay because as long as you're to say your it doesn't matter if you write what then is someone that cannot talk he physically cannot get up in say he's an he cannot say picks up. Amazing. We're taking this and we're we're applying to answer the great of how you understand every has the are just means you have to be to say but once you're how do you know exactly either way so the third thing that the mission said was if he didn't cut up the that needs to be cut up, it's also cautious. Then the Mishna says, "Or if you cut up, it's going to be what's tell if you didn't cut it at all, it's going to be so you have a that if you cut it up and you made big pieces, it shouldn't be cautious." So the gar says means that you cut it up too much. That's also a kadesh not big pieces but rather many pieces beamos not qualitatively but quantitatively there would have been that it's actually worse to chop it up you diced it maybe that's worse then incidentally this is all based on the fact that the gumar at the end of the discuss in in very precise detail these are the more technical sug has reputation to be more technical these are some of the technical sugas it's because the discusses exactly how it had to be chopped how it had to be cut up. Either way, that's what it means when we say maybe if you didn't cut it at all. It's okay because at the end of the day it's a right. You have your full maybe over here it's worse to cut it even in big pieces is maybe worse than not cutting it at all. That's the it doesn't matter if you didn't cut it. If you did cut it, it's too it's too small. bullets right you diced it or you have either way it's always going to be the which part of the said which we just explained means that is the lake this is a very important which lends itself to a lot of ra that will get into tomorrow any that's He doesn't believe in the Pik says that the got certain parts of the but and it doesn't just mean that does the but it means according to that believes in the then gets that is talking about a specific. How do you know all 15 such astolo? How do you know all those other? Incidentally, if you take a look at says I have another list. But the bottom line is is that you have a whole list over here. How do you know if a was not just in the but not all those other either? How do you know it says what's the name? What we need is one of the shim mentioned was if that means it only right doesn't say so it but it says the means that means to do says could be was talking about one type of and were talking about a that had right is from you had to do needed. So the regular that had this logic is a little counterintuitive. So that anything that precedes the such as the what we need now is the is going to bear. but which didn't have not every so that actually didn't have so being that it didn't have so you don't have the so over there is going to also need a so it's true the Mishna says meaning when he lists his mention but the Mishna is talking about an ordinary that has whereas was talking about the which did not have you don't have even what preceded the is going to need how do you know there's you know it from if that's the case apparently the is learned out from an ordinary so if an ordinary because you have that going to be different. Some had a different version of this exchange answered this theory meaning trying to reconcile work with our by saying very similar one's talking about whether it was the other discussing didn't have says what the second is adding on the first but it's the same where this so that doesn't have to be done with where there's no everything has to be done with the How do you know that? seems to be one of the themes in the beginning of the first Mishna we said was shim holds that there's no social when it comes to but either way there's a lot of rate to speak out will save that for