The Dark Side of Jewish Diet Culture

I've even seen GLP ones in Sedaka campaigns. Like it's a raffle you can win. No way. >> Yeah. Like a year of Osmpic and I'm just likeious. Yeah. >> That is so passive aggressive. That is so toxic. >> Yeah. They know what people want. Somewhere along the way we started becoming very afraid of food. So much so that there's like a real anxiety people have before Yansf. The way that we talk about food is definitely impacting our kids. >> Meet Rachel Tuckman, a therapist who's calling out the way our community talks about food, weight, and health. Y of meals that spark fear instead of joy. Kids growing up hearing diet talk at every table. She's exposing how these messages are planting the seeds for anxiety and eating disorders. In this conversation, Rachel breaks down why the quick fixes like Ompic and other GLP ones don't heal what's underneath and why the way we speak about food and bodies matters more than we realize. Because our kids are listening and it's shaping the next generation. >> If we saw someone with an eating disorder, let's say anorexia, we would be scared for them. Stop. You have to eat. You have to eat. But for someone who, let's say, is at a weight that we think that they need to lose weight, we're like praising those same behaviors that they're restricting, they're barely eating, they're dropping tons of weight, we're like, "Yes, you look incredible. Amazing." We find that there's actually higher suicide rates for people that undergo weight loss surgery. We're addressing the weight loss, but we're not addressing what started this to begin with. And so, our kids are hearing that when you're complimenting, "Oh, how much did you drop? 150 lbs. That's crazy. Wow." And our kids like, "Oh, okay. Okay, so that's a good thing to lose weight that can trigger the eating disorder. >> We'll be at this episode in just a second, but put a finger down if you've had a cold for the last 4 weeks and you had to come on here record ads in an intro for this episode, but your voice sounds like this. I'm putting a finger down. But don't worry because I gave through the Pushka app. pushka.cc/meful. And I'm hoping my cold sounding like a zombie will go away by the time you kipper comes. Thank God. Please God. Well, go ahead and download the push app right now. pushka.cc/meul. Wait, put your finger back up. Are you also worried about fast kipper? Because I am a little bit worried, especially with my current uh voice and cold situation. Well, don't worry. Fast aid is here for you. Created by the incredible col of Toronto. They have these incredible pills. Caffeine, Tylenol, Advil, electrolytes. You take it before the fast. Slow release and it will take you through the entire fast. You can get it right now at col.com. It's in most Jamaica stores and supermarkets and kosher groceries. Can you believe it? And here's the best part. Every purchase of a fast aid pill supports a support of Toronto. How cool is that? They own that domain, coll.com. So, if you can't find it anywhere else, go to col.com right now. No more no nausea, no more fatigue, no more of that. Oh my god, I can't even go to school cuz I'm so tired. I don't feel well. Make sure that you have fast aid in your back pocket. Take it before the fast and fast and have a meaningful meaningful fast. Now, here is this episode. I want to start out by, you know, talking about the relationship with food that we in our community have. Obviously, a lot of stuff is centered around food, shabasim, simkas. It's a lot. Um so I guess just a baseline do you think that the from community how we uh interact with food how we talk about food is is like healthy >> so I think that we we have run into a problem I think that it's interesting because so much of our like custom religion practice is centered around food and I always say like if you think about it like in the times of like the Ba mikdash it was like a giant barbecue, right? Like this is everything we do every holiday except for like yum kiper and tishab and by the way even then before then what are you eating at the breakfast right we're talking about these things so food is very much a a part of our lives there's symbolism to it we believe that it's something that elevates aim that it elevates our shabas so we know that it's very much a part of our lives and we don't believe in like depriving ourselves starving ourselves we're not monks um and I think somewhere along the way we have become become obsessed with stressing about eating, right? And we all know the conversation before Yandiffe is like, "Oh my god, I'm going to gain so much weight when I don't want to eat. I'm going to be sitting at the table all day." And what are you making? What are you not making? What diet are we going on after? And if you're on social media, there's the detox for after and the detox for before and don't worry, you can take that, you know, medication or whatever afterwards. So somewhere along the way, we started becoming very afraid of food and very afraid of these times. So much so that it becomes there's like a real anxiety people have before yanziff of like oh my god I can't like eight days of pes like and and what am I going to eat then and it's not anything that's on my diet and and again I'm not even talking about people who have special dietary allergies or that kind of stuff just in general regular nobody has any kind of you know issue and it's become people are afraid and I think it impacts people's yam toim it and impacts their relationships and impacts their ability to sit at the table with their family. >> Yeah. Um, and it's it's sad, you know, it's become such a source of stress that it shouldn't be. >> What does that do for a child? I mean, what what are what what are the effects? I I feel like I don't know how many generations were into this thing, but post Holocaust, it's like really tough to I think the whole food thing then was, you know, I I remember my grandfather who was a survivor by my table collecting crumbs. Like nothing was allowed to go into the garbage. Um, which is nice and all, but also has that that's that's just one symptom of it. There's an effect it has on future generations, but like our kids constantly hearing term the terms diet and weight loss and scales and this is that that's fine or is like no that will have a negative effect on someone. >> So the way that we talk about food is definitely impacting our kids. Meaning again, if we're talking about Yantif with fear of like, "Oh my god, what am I going to do? What am I? There's so much food and I'm going to gain weight and this is terrible. What do our kids think? Eating is bad. Eating is scary. Yantiff is stressful and terrible. Being hungry or eating a lot of food is a terrible thing. Like enjoying is is something that we shouldn't be doing. And again, kids are learning from how we talk about food. If we're making it, that food is scary and something we don't want to be partaking in and it's like an as needed basis and we want to eat the least amount possible. Kids who for sure when they're young and definitely when they get into like puberty year puberty years where they're growing and more hungry, they're going to become afraid of that. Shoot, eating is bad. I know my dad is like not eating anything now and he doesn't want he's not eating kala and he doesn't want to, you know, only salad and this and that. And then they start feeling bad about themselves. Wait, I'm hungry. I like kala. Shoot, I eat an extra piece of cocoa. Am I >> disgusting? Do I need to go on a diet? So, it's definitely planting seeds in our kids' heads about food and diet that they're start and diet. I mean, as a way of eating, not diet as weight loss. That this is something to be afraid of. And we know that that parents are not always the source of of problems with food and eating, but they're the primary source for kids to learn about their relationships with their bodies, with food, with all of these things, with with the world. They learn about themselves through what their parents say and teach them. So if they're learning early on that Yantiff is a time that you need to be stressed out and sitting at a table is the worst thing on earth and putting food in your mouth is like horrible and terrible and all you think about afterwards is how you're going to work that food off and tie your belt tight or go for a 40-minute walk after to compensate for what you ate. This is what they're picking up on and that's how they go through the world which is um scary because a kid also can't make sense of that. They don't know why they have to do it but they just know that the adults in their life are doing that and kids don't need to be distracted with that. like there's too much in the world anyway. They should be thinking about who they want to play with, how far they get on the monkey bars, what's their score at the last game, and how they want to do better. >> They shouldn't be consumed with these thoughts, you know? >> So, so what is like a good healthy way of talking about it? Is it just not talking about at all or there is like a normal way to do it? >> So, I think we definitely we want to teach our kids about how important eating is, right, for fueling their bodies, for giving them energy, for helping them concentrate in school. And you'll see like teachers will say they can tell when a kid's need breakfast. They're like tired, sluggish, they can't pay attention. They have no energy. Like they need to be eating. It's important, you know, that's why they build in snack times and lunchtime and re like always making sure kids are eating. So definitely talking to your kids about the importance of food. It helps us grow. It helps us concentrate. It helps us, you know, function in this world. But not categorizing it as good or bad or even I believe healthy or unhealthy. Right? I believe all food has a time and a place. Some foods are for certain occasions, meaning we don't eat cake every single day, but cake at a birthday party is a wonderful, beautiful thing. And I would say it's the healthy thing because it's happy and it's associated with joy and good things, you know, and there's a time for candy, too. Obviously, we don't want kids eating candy every day cuz again, nutritionally, it's not even giving them what they need, but there's a time and a place for it. So I say even labeling food as healthy or unhealthy because kids are such concrete thinkers, they'll think if I'm eating something unhealthy that must mean that I'm bad and unhealthy. So instead we just say you can label it fun foods, you can label it sweet foods, you can label it crunchy foods, whatever you want. But I would say stay away from junk food cuz again it's not junk. Um no food is junk. But I think just how we talk about food in general. Just we just food is food. And I think if we just talk about it as a way that yes, it's a wonderful if you want to say it's like a gift from Hashem and we're so lucky we have it and it makes us happy and there's a time and a place great. But I think as if we make it about body size and about trying to look a certain way um I think that's where the danger comes. So we really need to just talk about it I think in a way that it's just it's something we enjoy and it's good for us and that's it. So speaking on about body size and stuff like that something that um is a trend or I think maybe maybe better term than trend but our GLP ones is epic mangjaro this is something that has you know many years ago not many years ago a couple years ago Hollywood was you know everyone in Hollywood's on this but now it's almost like every from community has um I don't want to say most but a lot of people are on GLP ones are are taking shots to lose weight lose it asked and I don't I don't so much so want to get into like how is it physically for someone because I'm sure there's a whole lot of science on is it good for someone physically, what does it do with them long term, all that stuff. I'm more talking I guess the the mental um effect or impact it has positive or negative you tell me. The the presence of these shots of these get lose the weight fast options in our circles. What does that do for us? >> Right. So, it's interesting cuz I've even seen like JLP ones like in like Seducka campaigns like it's like a raffle you can win. >> No way. >> Yeah. Like a year of OMIC and I'm just like Yeah. I've seen that before. Yes. >> That's unreal. >> You haven't seen that? I >> That's so passive aggressive. That is so toxic. >> Yeah. But you know what these >> but these organizations know they know what people want. They know people. It's expensive and you know you can get a year of shots like they'll do it. So I they're thinking how do we get people to buy tickets and support our organization? Let's do what's trending >> at their Chinese auction where they're serving. Yeah. >> Yeah. Especially I find it interesting when it's like organizations let's say that are like talking about things related to like health and longevity in the community and it's like what are you guys doing? Like I don't you know. >> So so it seems like you're not a fan of this stuff. >> I wouldn't say I'm not I'm not a fan. I I don't judge. There's a time and a place. People who need it need it. People who want it want it. I do think though we need to look at the effects of that suddenly like there's nobody in a bigger body in our community anymore. Like what happens? Um and I think that that's scary because eventually I think what will happen is just like any other weight loss medication that we've ever, you know, had come onto the market. Somewhere down the line we're going to hear that these are probably not healthy and they can't be used in the way that they're being used right now. Meaning not for people with, you know, without diabetes or actual health concerns. So, I feel like this is probably not going to last so long. And then what, right? So, then people who are on it will probably gain that weight back. And then what does that do for the people who were living in that smaller body where they felt good about themselves, maybe they were getting all the dates, maybe they got married, maybe they all their problems felt like they were solved because they were in this smaller body and then suddenly they're not anymore. Um, but then I also wonder for the kids who cannot be on it yet, they say, "Why does nobody look like me? like why does everyone want to be smaller? Is there something wrong with how I look? You know, like I used to look like my dad, but now I don't anymore. Is that a bad thing? And I think that what we need to do is we need to teach kids bodies come in all different shapes and sizes. And like it's a good thing. Just like there's different shoe sizes and different heights and different hair colors and, you know, different eye colors, there's also different body shapes and one's not better than the other. And I think like the mentality has always been that when we see a person in a bigger body, there's a thin person trapped inside that's just waiting to come out. Um, and there's this concept of body diversity, like I said, height, eye color, hair color, body shape, too, you know. So, I think that's where I worry that like kids growing up and especially like adolescence, young teenage boys and girls, it affects boys too, that they're suddenly seeing only one body type and so they're going to be doing extreme things to try to fit into that. And it's also teaching them a message of like, well, if I don't look like that body type that I'm seeing now everywhere, what's wrong with me? Um, and that's scary. Like the effect that it will have on mental health. Again, we don't know yet cuz it's so new, >> right? Yeah. >> But I'm worried about it, you know? I'm worried. >> Yeah. I mean that is for forget the kids for a second cuz it obviously that's where it's going to head and kids have these questions but even for the adults themselves the concept of like them not having to really change much of their habits or lifestyle but be able to do something and have a a result like that can't be like good that can't be good for us >> so I know I know from like research that they've done for people who have like weight loss surgery um a lot of a lot of the effects afterwards are we find that there's higher suicide rates for people that um undergo weight loss surgery and very often the reason is number one they don't screen very well for them in terms of mental health. So they're not looking at like what's happening that like you are in this current situation. You know sometimes people who are at weights like that that they need weight loss surgery. There's something mentally going on for them. There's distress, there's anxiety, there's depression, there's there is a reason, right? Or there's an eating disorder that's not diagnosed that we're not addressing. So, we're addressing the weight loss, but we're not addressing like what started this to begin with. Um, and so very often they'll lose the weight and they're like, "Okay, my life's going to be amazing now." But then they realize like, "No, all my trauma is still there or, you know, my wife still hates me or my kids don't talk to me or I still have no friends or I'm still miserable and unhappy or I still have crazy body dysmorphia." And then sometimes they'll turn to alcohol or drugs instead, right? Cuz food is not the vice anymore cuz they can't eat because of the surgery. So they'll start using substances or other self-destructive behaviors. >> Yeah. And then it turns into depression and suicidality and also health complications come up very often from these surgeries. And so their life is impacted in a negative way and they're like, "Wait, my life is never going to get better." And so that increases that depression and the suicidality. And so again, like these are quick fixes like you were saying. It's like great, the weight comes off, but like are we really addressing your lifestyle choices, your health? And again, when I say health, I don't even think about like salad and exercise. I think about like the people that you surround yourself with. Your connection to your community, your connection to if you're religious, do you like being a from Jew? Do you like your rabbi? What was your childhood like in school? Did your rebi slap you in the face and you feel so angry about it still? Or do you did you heal that? Are you connected to your religion? And and are you living the way you want to? And are you sending your kids to a school that matches your hashkafa? Do you feel like you're being like a true and again doesn't mean you're a perfect halically observant completely all the way you never do anything wrong kind of Jew but meaning are you doing your best and do you feel proud of who you are this is health you know are you happy in your relationships what's your relationship like with your family and if it's not good are you taking care of yourself I think health is so multifaceted and I feel like it stinks that we really boiled it down to like what do you weigh and what do you eat right >> those are two like tiny factors and again with GLP you're not eating very much and you're not weighing very much but again we still have people who are so unhappy so what are we doing you know >> maybe it's not maybe it's not about the weight >> it's it's probably not about the weight you know again sometimes that's one piece of it one tiny piece of it but when that goes away then yes very often people look and they're like well I'm still not married or I'm still unhappy or I'm still you know and so that's why I say like we really need to be looking at like what are you trying to heal when you're saying I need to drop 50 lb you know >> and I don't know if that can be healed by weight loss necessarily you know >> how how do how though do we stay cons like you know there is this movement I feel like in in the world about body positivity and you know which some people on political right might call just you're promoting unhealthy behavior right you understand I'm saying like >> so so where where do you draw the line between between like okay there are bodies come in all shapes and sizes and that's good versus like >> yeah but that's not healthy behavior and >> right so the body positivity movement all that was about all that is about is just like people deserve to feel comfortable in their skin that's all it was it wasn't like everybody should eat whatever they want and everybody should be fat like we're not saying that and also I it was interesting when people would say that to me because I do talk a lot about that when I would talk about people deserving to just feel comfortable in their skin. People would say like, "Well, why are you promoting like obesity?" And I would say like, "Do you think anyone is looking at someone in a bigger body, let's say, and saying like, "Yeah, you know what? I think I'm going to gain 150 lbs." No one's saying that, you know, but we're saying that everyone deserves to just feel comfortable in their skin. I happen to believe more in just body neutrality. You don't need to like love yourself and feel fabulous and like walk around and think you're the, you know, the toast, the it, whatever. But I do think that you just deserve to just not have to think about your body at all. Not have to worry about it. Not worry if clothes are going to fit you. Not worry that doctors are going to be mean to you because you look a certain way. Not worry that you're not going to get set up on dates because you are a certain weight. Not worry that, you know, people are going to treat you differently. You won't get the job. We know that people that are in bigger bodies are actually hired less than people in smaller bodies. Actually, >> yeah, they have statistics on that. I mean, it's also like for good-looking people also, they're more likely to get hired even if they're not as qualified. We live in a very visual culture. We live in a culture that's obsessed with beauty and we think or thinness also and we think that that makes you a better person. Like you must be smart because you're skinny and it's like you might be a total doofus and you know and the guy that's bigger is like amazing and could bring your company to god knows what, you know, but I think people are just more biased to that because we've been taught that when you look a certain way, we give attributes to that. So you must be smarter, you must be more savvy, you must be, you know, kinder, you must be So we have a bias in that way. Um, so I think that when I when body positivity is a wonderful thing, but again, I kind of advocate for just body neutrality. You don't have to feel good about your body, but we don't want you to feel bad about it because if you do feel bad about you're less likely to get out of bed, take a walk, go out and socialize, right? We know that being social is a huge piece of people's health, right? People who are social and and go out in the community live longer. We know people that are part of communities have a better a longer lifespan. There's actually a Harvard study. It's I think it's like a 100 years old. Harvard, whatever. We don't really like them so much anymore, but it's the study itself is actually fascinating. I think it's about a hundred years that they were following hundreds of people and then it expanded to thousands of people because they originally had this like group of people they were following for about like 75 80 years and then they started following like their kids and they wanted to see like what is the secret to longevity? How do people live longer? Right? What's the what's the secret sauce? And they found that it wasn't about diet, exercise, you know, whether you smoke or drink, which again, these are all things that we should be, you know, we should be eating in a way that is good for our bodies. we should exercise, we shouldn't smoke or drink. But they found that it was actually the quality of people's relationships that determines how happy and how long they lived. Um, and we know there's research that people who are married live longer and men especially. Um, again, even if you're not married, you can still have a long, beautiful life, but they found that men had like a marked increase in how long they lived um when they were married more so than women, which makes sense because your wife is like go to the doctor, you know, did you did you get to the gym, get to sleep, right? she's more going to like she's kind of taking care of things and she's on top of things and men are more likely to care about themselves when they have a partner or children. Um, so we know that that really the the marker of like what helps people to be healthy and live longer is is social connections, you know. So, I think that we're like forgetting that and and something that worries me about the GLP stuff and and just weight loss and and dieting in general is that what happens when you're not eating? you don't want to go anywhere. We're going out to dinner for whoever's birthday. Do you want to come? I can't. I'm on a diet or like I can't eat anything or you know like I'm not going to be I can't drink. I can't. So people don't want to go out anymore. And so we're reducing social connectedness. >> 72 years ago launched the first ever daily tadaka fund called Karen Hashana. One donation today covers the entire year. Right? There's 354 days in this coming year. You give one donation today and Karan Ashana distributes twice a day before shak before MKA to the organizations in need and that ensures that you are never missing a day of giving. Your donation helps support and their activities around the world single parent homes plus many more extremely important funds. And like the Reb said, by joining this fund, you share in all the holy work that these organizations are doing and accomplishing. Millions of dollars have already been distributed and now it's your turn to get involved in this. Head to myaranashana.com. That is my karanashana.com and get involved today. 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So, go ahead, email them right now at salesshar.com. That is salesshar.com. Mention meaningful people for some pre-sale introductory pricing. Maybe a I I imagine there's going to be there's going to be unfortunately a lot of really messed up kids that are exposed to their parents saying, "Oh, we can't go out to eat. Aba took the shot." Or, "Oh, I can't eat. I'm on the Zmpic and this and that." It's just like that's a really crazy thing probably for our kids' mind to to digest. It's just I think it's just confusing to watch somebody willingly like again if we saw someone with an eating disorder let's say anorexia nervosa right where they're severely restricting their food and restricting their food and there's health consequences to that and we're scared and let's say there's someone who very underweight because of the anorexia right that we're looking at them and we're like oh my god this is terrible >> we would be scared for them stop you have to eat you have to eat but for someone who let's say is at a weight that we think that they need to lose weight we're like praising those same behaviors is that they're restricting, they're barely eating, they're dropping tons of weight. We're like, "Yes, you look incredible. Amazing." And so our kids are hearing that when you're complimenting, "Oh, how much did you drop? Under 150 lbs. That's crazy. Wow." And our kids like, "Oh, okay. So that's a good thing to lose weight." So, and again, I find this a lot in my work that very often if kids want to be good at something, they want to be seen, they want to be recognized, that can trigger the eating disorder, right? That can trigger that dysfunctional relationship with food. Well, if I'm not good at anything because I feel like a failure in my life. Maybe not because of anything that is going on in my home necessarily, but maybe I just have my own anxiety and stress. I stink at everything. I have no friends, maybe I can be really good at weight loss, so let me do that. Let me starve myself. It's going to start out with like, "Mom, I'm vegan." And then it's going to start out with like, "I just want to be like healthy, like I'm going to the gym." And then it's going to be like, "Ah, I think I'm um celiac, you know? I think I'm gluten-free now, right?" And so parents might be like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, gluten-ree. Yeah, I heard gluten's bad for you. Oh, he's vegan. Wow, he really cares about the animals. So, we kind of like start ignoring that. But these might actually be signs of like something going on here with your kid. Um, so we just have to be careful complimenting weight loss. I say just don't do it. You know, even if we're like, but he worked so hard and oh, but she I know her whole life she struggled. So, just say like, "Hey, so good to see you. Love your hair. That shirt is great on you." Like let's just say anything other than like body compliments because yeah kids >> which is probably the number one compliment people get >> always and what I always find interesting is like sometimes people will be like did you lose weight when the person clearly did not you know and it's like why are you saying that we could we could find any other convers just be like hey what's up did you get a tan like say that why did you lose weight you know I once had a friend who was like I actually gained 15 pounds like why are you saying that >> I once gained some weight and like someone came like you different. You lose weight. I'm like >> opposite. >> Nope. >> Ei other way. But I find that people will do that just as a conversation piece. Like you lost weight, right? And it's like why does that have to be just say anything else? Haven't seen you in a while. What did you do this summer? How are the kids? How was work? There's so much more to talk about. But I feel like that's like our default. And I find that every I don't want my friends who are watching this be like, "Oh, we can't talk about this anymore." But every shabas table, every yansf table, every every conversation is like always going back to weight and food and doctor said I got to lose weight. Oh man, the barmits was coming back. I got >> the diet starts tomorrow. >> Yeah, diet starts tomorrow. But I got to lose weight. The barmits was coming up. Oh, did you see did you see her? She lost so much weight for the wedding. Oh, the wedding is coming, guys. When when are we starting the diet? Family diet fit into the dress? >> Is this a Jew? Is this a Jew is this like a Jewish problem? Like is this something that plagues the Jewish community more than society at large? So it's interesting that a lot of there's not a lot of research. Um but what research does exist? >> We have research on everything. We don't have research on this. You see like the USA like they're doing research on India stuff. >> So the Jewish community is hard. It's hard to collect research because a we don't really want to talk. >> B we're not so much aware, right? It's like people don't know. And C stigma. I don't want to talk about an eating disorder. Like how am I people are going to think we're messed up. I don't want to talk about it in our community. People are going to think our communities like they want to stay away from it. So no one really wants to talk about it. So it's hard to collect data in the Jewish community. But what we do know is that it seems like from the the little bit of data that we do have that there's actually so if like in the general population disordered eating let's say which is not an eating disorder per se but it's a bad relationship with food and bodies is double the national average. So it's like one in six in the general population and the Jewish population it's one in three. >> Wow. And you consider what we're discussing a GLP1 stuff like that like you consider that a a disordered eating. >> I mean I >> unless it's unless it's like someone's a diabetic or >> right I mean it depends. I I would say that disordered eating is very much involved in GLP because you're starving and you're not eating you know and certain foods like you stay away from and it probably fosters a disordered eating relationship. >> Um but I don't I I don't I wouldn't like diagnose in that way. Um, but I would just say that probably someone who has a poor relationship with food in their body is going to go on a GLP1 because they're like the food noise I can't like it doesn't stop. I can't stop thinking about it. It's all day long. And again, valid. Like I'm not going to say that's not true and I'm not going to say don't go on a GLP because of food noise. Again, I'm not here to say any of that. If anyone wants to go on it, please. Like I don't want I I remember >> just don't talk about it. >> Yeah. No, no, you can. You could talk about it, but I would say maybe don't talk about it in front of your kids. They don't need to know. And and again, even if they notice, >> even for friends, though, like imagine like you're in a group of friends and someone everyone looks different and you're talking about it. It's just like I don't know. I I agree with what you said. Just like don't talk about weight. >> Don't talk about it. And again, if your your kids notice like, "Oh, daddy, you look different." Just say, "You know what? I'm just trying to take care of my health." You don't have to be like, "Well, I'm injecting myself weekly with this GLP1. Do you know what that is?" >> Kids don't need to know. And I know sometimes people are like, "Well, is that lying to them?" And I say, "No, it's protecting them. You don't need to talk about your body with your kids. You don't need to talk about your weight loss and your health. Again, unless it's directly affecting them, meaning if there's a terminal illness, please tell your children. But if you're on a GLP1, they don't need to know. >> So, what do we do about um cuz now you you can't really open up a Jewish magazine without being hit with at least three um full page ads about skinny shots, ompic mangaro, all that stuff. We have meaningful minute. We took the position to not take those ads. like I I don't think it's it just didn't feel right. So, we don't take those ads, but you open up these publications and they're there and kids can get their hands on this and they see it. So, it's really seeped into our world in a in a seemingly permanent way. It's not like, you know, a fly by night. Like, people are making money off of this, which is great, but it's being it's in our publications. I can't imagine you're a fan of of that being mainstreamed in that way. I mean, it definitely worries me because again, I think that it there are vulnerable people out there who maybe shouldn't be on it. Um, and again, kids who are seeing this that it's it worries me. I also do believe that everybody has the right to decide if they want to go on it or not. But yes, I do think we need to look at from the community standpoint like there's a problem, you know, that people who, let's say, only have only want to lose about 10 lbs are like going on this and and we don't know the long-term effects. And again, I wonder what it says to I'm not even kids. Yes, it's important, but I'm also thinking about adults, you know, like what is it doing to us to constantly be chasing, obsessing, putting things in our body that >> what are you really chasing? Like what are they chasing? If they're chasing if they're trying to lose the weight because they're trying to get validation and and friendship, like you're not chasing losing weight. You're chasing something else that you're not necessarily going to achieve if they're losing the weight, >> right? I always say like the the need to lose weight, the desire to lose weight, there's usually something deeper underneath. There's some emotional something underneath. And and I know, you know, I've seen also where let's say someone will say that their spouse is complaining, their partner is complaining like, oh, you know, I want you to lose weight. And again, I understand that's very painful to hear if a partner is saying that to their wife or their husband like, I want you to lose weight. I'm not attracted to you. It's usually not about that. Again, there's something deeper going on. There's a disrespect. There's a disconnect. there's a something missing there that weight loss is not going to help. But I know that very often people think, well, if I lose weight, then she'll be interested in me again or he'll love me again. Um, and that doesn't always happen. I I think about um they just had this documentary on Netflix about the show Biggest Loser. Do you remember this show? >> Yeah, I brought it up in my interview with Eric Adams. >> So, it was this Oh, really? So the biggest loser was this show where people who were in really at really high weights went on the show and >> like at like 600 500 lb >> really big and we were all cheering for them like yay starve yourself work out for 8 hours a day throw up have a heart attack lose weight on camera right and like have your trainer abuse you and like be disgusting to you and eat like 400 calories a day like literally less than they ate in the Holocaust and like yay but you're skinny like this was the show right so we all watched it and we thought it was fantastic TV but so this documentary is talking about like how damaging and traumatic it was to these people mentally, physically, whatever it is. And one of the women on the show, spoiler here, if you watch it, don't watch it, but one of the women on the show was saying that she went to the Biggest Loser campus to try to lose weight. And she said part of why she wanted to go was her marriage was falling apart. She was in this bigger body. Her husband was just like perpetually like not loyal to her. Um disinterested, not around. And she thought, well, if I go and I like lose weight and I like take care of myself, like he'll he'll stop doing what he's doing and like I'll fix our marriage. And she ended up losing weight and she went back home and she says in this documentary like her marriage fell apart and she realized it wasn't about her. It was that the marriage was really doomed from the beginning. And very often we'll see this that people realize like once they lose weight like the problems were always there or sometimes I even see the opposite that someone's in a bigger body and then they and their life is like you know it seems fine or whatever it is and then they lose weight and like all of a sudden they start like acting out they up and leave their family or they're you know drinking suddenly or doing all kinds of crazy things that were like whoa like what happened to you know um so it's not always the answer and again I'm not against anyone trying to lose weight but I do say like please just think about like What do you think that's going to bring you? And is it possible to get those things without doing something so drastic? You know, and it could it be that you just Yeah, maybe get yourself to therapy and maybe yeah, go to the gym or go outside and walk or Yeah, maybe you meet with a dietitian and address your relationship with food. Um, but I think that we we live in a time certainly now with social media where it's like quick fix. I just want now now. And nobody has the patience to wait for anything. You know, even in my practice, like as a therapist, like people will sometimes call me up and, you know, they want help and they're like, "Well, how long until I feel better?" Like when how many sessions do you think? Like, and then like all my problems will be solved. And I'm like, >> "I wish it was that easy." Like, I wish I could just tell you, "No, three sessions, like it's all good with your mother-in-law." Like, but that's not how it works, you know? >> Um, but people just want to like feel better immediately. Um, and there's a lot of promises online about that, and there's a lot of promises with GLP1 about that. like all the ads are like this stunning like beautiful person and like the wind flowing through their hair and this happy couple holding hands and you're like, "Oh, that's going to be me." But it's it's not necessarily. So, I think that's something like we need to really be addressing. Again, you want to lose weight with the GLP1, fine. But I do encourage people to think about like what else is going on that might be the root of the problem and thinking about the effects that Yeah. If you have little people watching, how are you going to explain that to them? And then would you want them to do the same or feel the same or go through life that way? You know, >> do you find um I guess closing the parentheses a little bit on on the food stuff in general in your practice um as being being a therapist, what is I guess the biggest uptick or people coming to you like what's the reason people are coming starting therapy in 2025? So, I know you'll be shocked when I say this. Anxiety. >> People are riddled riddled with anxiety. Um, and >> define that though. Everyone hears the word anxiety. And I find that >> someone brought my wife brought this up the other day. She's like, "It's not fair because sometimes we had a shock in here today and she said, you know, sometimes there's uh there's things that need to be spoken about. The person could have anxiety or depression, bipolar disorder." I'm like I feel like it's not fair to mention anxiety with bipolar disorder and you know it's like everyone has some anxiety I feel like it's it's a it's like a >> there's like a so there listen we all have anxiety meaning anxiety is actually something good that we have right so if I have anxiety in a healthy way so if I have a test coming up my anxiety is going to make me study right if I have anxiety about like I don't want to you know get hit by a car I'm going to look and right so anxiety can be helpful when I say anxiety as a problem I mean that it's not just about I have a test or I have a game coming up so I got to practice anxiety about things that I don't really have any cause to be worried about. So I'm scared the Holocaust is coming again. And again, we could argue maybe people do have cause to think that, but we don't necessarily have, you know, the world is scary right now and there's a lot of anti-semitism, but there are people that literally are like storing money away under their mattresses and like renewing passports and acting like there's going to be, you know, another holocaust. And so things like that or just again even I'm scared that every minute of the day that like somebody's going to die. Meaning not just it's in the back of my head and I could ignore it but I'm scared that my kids are dead every minute of the day so I have to obsessively check on that >> like >> things like Yeah. extreme anxiety about that kind of stuff. Yeah. And and sometimes it turns into obsessing about things and again sometimes when we can't control our anxiety then we say okay so I can control what I eat. I can control my body. I can control you know other things. the cleanliness of my house. I can control what my kids do. I can control my partner >> to manifest in different ways. >> Yeah. So, it's it anxiety as a problem. It's how much is it impacting your daily functioning. That's when we say anxiety that you come to a therapist. Not just like I get nervous here and there, but I could ignore it. Or like yeah, sometimes I like think about things that scare me. But like for overall I can function. It's fine. I know it's crazy and it doesn't bother me. I'm talking about people that really can't function because it's forefront. It's front and center in their in their lives and it's impacting their daily living, their relationships, their parenting, their marriages, whatever it is, their ability to function at work, their ability to get to work. I can't get on the train cuz I'm scared there's going to be a mom on the train or I'm scared that, you know, something's going to happen to me, right? >> So, things like that. But, I think that anxiety is really it's it's prevalent now. Um, I think that definitely a part of it is being plugged in all the time, right? that we just have this device in our hands that's always pinging dinging bad news rocket alarms you know from Israel the next you know some guy got beat up in a shul in wherever and like this is you know first of all it's in our DNA to be anxious anyway as Jews right we're always scared like who's the next like when what country are we getting kicked out of next right like it's our inherited trauma you know that's why we all have bad stomachs and all that right >> oh is that why >> that's what they say you know that yeah that we have it's the Jewish stomach. It's a thing, right? That >> was just Ashkanazi Jews. >> Ashkenazm, but doesn't that make sense? Europe, you know, right? >> Definitely Spartum I think have stronger stomachs. But yeah, >> I just find it interesting that like the word anxiety pro like 20 years ago was not a thing. Like >> no one spoke about it, >> but it was there, but no one spoke about it. No one spoke about it. And >> you know what it used to be called at least for kids? ADHD. Every kid was diagnosed as ADHD cuz he can't sit still. And in kids, anxiety looks a lot like ADHD. They can't focus. They can't sit still. They're all over the place. They're they're it looks like they're like getting up, getting down, getting up. But if you think about it, when you're anxious, you pace, you're nervous. Your thoughts are running. You're, you know, so kids were misdiagnosed very often. Um, still to this day, I still will, you know, encounter some kids that it's like, oh, the teacher says he has ADHD or she has ADHD and it turns out it's really anxiety, you know. How do you how do you like what's the uh the process in diagnosing someone with anxiety? Like it's not like oh there we see it on the graph like what makes you diagnose someone with such a thing? >> So it's through talking to people you know like tell me just about like your daily life like what's going on like how do you sleep at night? What are some things that you like to do? What do you think about how are things at home? What's going on at home? Certainly with a kid definitely like you know if there's stress or tension at home with a sibling or even with the parents if the parents relationship isn't so great if finances are rough and even if parents think their kids don't know I always tell parents like your kids know they know like don't there you really can't hide anything you know and even if you think like oh but we had the conversation in the basement when they were sleeping kids hear they see they know I find all the time I'll say to my kids like how did you know that you know like where did and they're like hello like you're a therapist do you know that we hear Um, so definitely like kids are listening and hearing. So yes, knowing what's going on in the home, how are they functioning in the classroom, do they have friends, like we just look at those things. We try to figure out their daily functioning, you know, and their thought process. And very often what I find is like all the the sign to me is usually kids have trouble sleeping. So it'll be like, you know, there's a branch tapping the window every night outside my window, but I feel like it's a robber coming in the house and they're going to kill me. Or, you know, I'm scared that when my parents go out for the school dinner, I'm scared like I hear hatal and I think they died. These are like the most common things. Yeah. And kids, they think about this stuff, you know. I'm scared I'm going to get sick. Every day I'm scared I'm going to get sick or I'm scared when I am sick, I'm going to be in the hospital and then I'm going to die, you know. So, and sometimes this comes from they saw a grandparent who was sick and died suddenly or maybe they know someone or again just living in this world >> who doesn't have anxiety like >> that's what I'm saying. It's really everyone >> it's really getting out of control. I mean listen again there are people that have anxiety that's >> that's intense but they manage it like how you're looking at it right here. Like I manage it. Um and it's kind of background noise in my head now but like it's there you know. And so some people you would never know. You're like oh but you're so chill or you have it together. And so you really don't know. And that's why I say also people you can't look at someone and you're like oh you have anxiety. It's usually the people that are like chill, easygoing, nothing bothers them. Those are actually the people that are probably the most anxious because they have to come off that way because I want you to like me. I don't want to upset you. I want everyone to be happy. So, I'm just going to be like, "Yeah, I'm I'm chill. It's good. I'm easygoing." Meanwhile, I'm not easygoing. I'm uptight. I'm crazy. Everything bothers me. I obsess about everything. Right? So, that's what might be happening. But, I think I think anxiety is the most common thing that I'm seeing. Again, anxiety that's really tough for people to manage and that's getting in the way of their functioning. Um, but also just again relationships, you know, and and I think that people are having a hard time learning to connect with people. They're are having a hard time managing their relationships. Um, I think definitely we're seeing more of it because people for sure like postcoid when we were, you know, locked in our houses for 2 years and then when we were not locked in our houses, we had masks on and then we had plastic separating us. So definitely I see social issues with kids for sure who lost time socializing. But even adults like we forgot we forgot how to socialize. We forgot how to like be out in public with people. We were always on devices. I I heard a therapist once saying, she's a famous therapist, Esther Pel. She said like you can have 50,000 friends on social media, but you have nobody to babysit your cat. We have all these artificial connections, but no real meaningful connections. And I think that contributes to anxiety. I do think that the Jewish community, we have a lot of like protective factors in that we have shul every week, you know, we have Yantiff, so we have so much opportunity and because we're very community- based, we do have a lot of opportunity to socialize and shabas, right? Thank God that we have to be off a device and then we have to sit at a table with family and we have to connect with people. But we're still seeing a lot of that disconnect from people and isolation and loneliness and that contributes to anxiety. You know, >> there's no better ad in an episode like this. We're talking about food ompic and whatnot. Then my friends at Sprinkles. Yes, that incredible ice cream cake. You're all about to be sitting around the suka with your friends. You're aen. 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So Jonathan Hate, he wrote that book, The Anxious Generation. He's a he's big in the news now cuz he's the one that's actually pushing a lot of like getting cell phones out of high schools. So he he's not Jewish. Um he's a psychologist at NYU. And he says like he he admires the Jewish community for Shabas. He says like it's unbelievable that like for that 24 hours parents, kids, everybody has to get off a device. They disconnect but they connect, you know. >> Um and I think Shabas is really like a lifesaver that if we didn't have it, imagine imagine you didn't have to be off your device. We It's impossible to get it out of your hands, right? We're always working. We're always doing. We're always I'm guilty of it. It's really hard. And that's why like I always say like even if like you know God willing one day I make aliyah like I think I might want to like still keep two days right cuz like then I'm off a device. It's it's so good for us to have that time where we're disconnected because we live in a time we where we're so connected all the time and we're so disconnected. We're so overstimulated and we're so numb, you know? We're so informed and we're so like overwhelmed and clueless and like we don't know we don't know what's going on in the world, you know? So, it's like we need to have that time where like we're just with people face to face in the same room, you know, touch grass. Like we're outside, we're walking to shul, we're seeing people. Even if you don't go to shul, I have company over or, you know, I'm I'm sitting outside and I'm getting fresh air and I'm in the world, you know. >> Yeah. Something I'm really proud of that we did recently. Not recently. I mean, unfortunately, what happened to Charlie Kirk was was awful, tragic. Um, afterwards, someone on my team identified a video of him talking about Chabas, and we we cut it and made into a little little bit of a video, and we posted on Instagram and Tik Tok, and it has 6 and a half million views on each platform. >> Wow. >> And it led to like again 13 million people saw it. And we saw a lot of people um react to the video who were not who were Jewish not keeping Shabas start keeping Shabas. And even people who are not Jewish take on this idea of just shutting down, right, >> for for 24 hours Sabbath. >> We're not we're not like, you know, advising people who aren't Jewish to keep Shabas, but like disconnect. Yeah. Disconnect from the phone especially. Yeah. >> It's it's like very healthy. >> Um but I want to ask you back on the anxiety thing for a second. >> At what point for for those listening, this might be a question they have. At what point do they know okay um now I have to go to a therapist because this is where I'm at with the anxiety like solve X like what is that place versus it's regular you know >> so I say when it's impacting your life to the point where you feel like you cannot manage it anymore >> isn't too late though >> not necessarily because again it depends like where you cannot manage it anymore could look terrible or it could just be like I can't stop thinking about this and it keeps me up at night and I'm not sleeping Well, and it's affecting my appetite. Not necessarily like, you know, I'm crying every day, that's already a pretty bad point. But if you're having sleep disturbances and again, you notice during the day, like I can't control my thoughts. Like I I just can't. It's it's non-stop and it's it's upsetting me, you know, and even talking to my friends or talking to my partner or talking to, you know, my mom or it's not helping me. That's where I say like then maybe a professional and even thinking about psychiatric medication. if therapy I say try therapy first and then sometimes you know you'll tack on medication if needed but like go and talk to a therapist and and say here's what's going on with me like I can't seem to get it under control. I think most people will have a sense of when it's really a problem. For some people they live that way their whole lives so they're like oh this isn't normal you know. Um but that's why I think also if you have a friends or a loved one that you feel like they're so stressed out like you can say in a loving way like I'm nervous I'm worried about you. you're obsessing about this all the time or you're always worrying about it or you repeat the same question 8 million times to me. You asked me that already or you said that already, maybe you should think about talking to someone, right? And again, in a sensitive way, not in like what's wrong with you? See a therapist, right? Like we want to be sensitive, then I think you can do that, too. So, if you see someone that you're worried about them, suggest it, you know? Um, but I would say yes, if it's to a point where you feel like I can't like I just can't do this. I like I'm trying everything. I'm doing the yoga. I'm I'm going outside and getting fresh air. I you know, but it's not working. I would say then reach out to that therapist and see if talking and and maybe, you know, like I said, somewhere along the way, medication is what you need. >> That that alone could be a very daunting task for someone to do. >> Yes. >> Is there anything that you can say that can pop that scary balloon in their head about that process >> of reaching out? All they all they know about therapy and therapists is what they see probably on Netflix or what they read in family first mishbaka about the therapist who went rogue and told all the secrets to the which is you know serial probably it's not you know and I love mishbah I'm just made that up it could have been anything but any magazine yeah you know what I'm saying like there's this >> there is right there is a stigma for sure I do find here's like the plus of social media if you're on social media I think that following a therapist on social media is a great way to like get rid of that stigma and that fear of like, oh, okay, I like what that person posts. I like what they say. It resonates with me. They don't seem so scary. She seems pretty like easygoing. I like their approach to things. I think social media is a good piece. Definitely in publications. So, if you read a local paper or a Mishbaha magazine or whatever and you like their writing, reaching out to them that way. I say email is like a great way to make first contact. And you could even say like, "I'm so nervous. like I've never done this before, but you know, I'm thinking about starting therapy. Um, and I think like you would be surprised like we're not scary therapists. Like we won't bite your head off. Like we're happy to help, you know, and if if we're available, obviously, and and have openings. But I think just maybe taking the a little bit of the fear away through, like I said, through reading materials that they put out there. And and thankfully in the Jewish community, we really do have so much now. It used to be back in the day, I say this all the time, used to be back in the day, might even be like I'm older than you, but even when you were a kid, like the only people who saw a therapist were like the bad kids, like the kids who couldn't behave in class, you know, >> the kids who like the nurse would come to the door and be like, "I need to see Rakani again, the therapist, right?" We were like, "Oh god, like it was for the problem kid." And I find it's shifted so much that I'll have like when I when I worked a lot with like high school kids, it would be like they would be trading therapist names at lunch and if you didn't have a therapist, they were like, "Oh my god." Like curious, right? More modern orthodox for sure. But I find that even in more like yeshivish circles, it's it's changing that. >> Are you seeing more resistance though in the modern Orthodox versus Yeshivish uh communities in terms of the the advances in this area? Like is there more resistance openness? >> Is there more resistance? Yeah. Is there more of a stigma in the in the yeshivish homes? >> So yeshivish people are definitely in therapy. Maybe they're not as open about it. They're definitely andish. They're they're they love therapy. They're in it. They may not be talking about it so much. I find in the modern orthodox world it's literally like a normal part of your conversation. Oh, my therapist said I have therapy so I could come afterwards, you know? Oh, who's your therapist? And again, like I said, I feel like a lot of teenagers feel bad when they find out that their friend doesn't have a therapist. They're like, "Oh my god, oh, I have therapy." It It's really like part of their conversation, which I think is so beautiful. I remember years ago, I had a client, like a young kid. She was my my um client, and whenever I would like be around her school, she would like run up to me and hug me and be like, "This is my therapist." And again, it was credit to her mom who was like, "There is no shame. Like, we're so h like therapy is a good thing in our house." Um, but I remember even her friends were like, "Oh, your the like they were so excited like, oh, my therapist doesn't come to the school." So, it's definitely different in some circles. Again, I think it's how we talk about it. I wish we just made it more normal to go to therapy. Like, why is it norm not normal to get help and it's normal to like be dysfunctional? Why are we answer that for you? >> You know, what does he want to say? >> I don't know. >> What does he want to say? >> Yes. But again, >> yes, but again, I wonder why aren't we at the point where it's like when we hear someone's in therapy that we're like, okay, good. Thank God. Why is that? >> Yeah, but unfortunately unfortunately it's just like you're you're you're responding with common sense, >> right? >> To something that is the whole like there's a lot of questions on on this stuff. I don't know what you're saying is right. Unfortunately, it's just >> right. I hope we'll get there. I do find that again certainly in the modern orthodox world where we have rabbis like Rabbi Liuititz who like is encouraging premarital counseling for couples to start normalizing this and not because the couple's engage and they have problems but because let's get a couple in contact with a therapist so that inevitably down the line when your marriage hits a bump cuz it will all marriages do even the best most beautiful ones have hard knocks you know because life happens unexpected tragedies difficulties finances whatever kids it happens let's show, let's take away the stigma. You already sat in a therapist room. You saw how fine it is. Like it was okay for you and now you know that person. So if you have an issue, you can reach out. So we're going to start normalizing that for sure in this world, um the more, you know, the more modern orthodox world, um the YU world. I'm hoping that that will trickle down. Again, I've seen Yeshivish and people in my office, you know, um so it's not like it doesn't exist. And again, I know that there are some people in theish world that like are very open about therapy and love it and talk about it. So, I think it's individual, you know, more than community, let's say, but we definitely have our hurdles. We have a way to go. Um, but I think that talking about it, normalizing it, showing the benefit of it even, you know, that people are saying like, "Wow, you guys are doing so well, like what, you know, or your kid is doing great. Like, you a few years ago he was really struggling. Yeah, I took him to therapist and like thank God, you know. >> Would you say that someone who goes through therapy as a teenager pre-marriage is more likely to have a better marriage and less likely to get divorced as opposed to someone who did not? >> If they have a good therapist and they work on and assuming those issues are addressed, meaning like if it's some kind of like family things, they work on communication skills. It's possible. I do want to say that just because someone's in therapy doesn't mean that they're actually doing work, right? So, like I've heard people be like, "Oh, he's in therapy or she's in therapy." And it's like, "Okay, like >> right >> that doesn't mean anything. He walks in the room like some just because someone goes to sh doesn't mean they're >> I went to the gym and I stared at the weights." Like that doesn't mean you're doing the work, right? Like, yeah, you went to sh like so what? So being in therapy doesn't necessarily mean that any real work is being done. So definitely with a grain of salt, like if someone's like, "Yeah, I go to therapy." Okay, but like am I seeing that there's actual work being done here? that like you are working on yourself and again that you're going and not painting other people as the problem but like wanting to know like what work do I need to do? How did things in my life affect me? I'm not a victim anymore. I'm not blaming my parents for things. I'm not here to rail on them and be like my mom was so mean. Even if your mom was so mean, let's talk about now what does that mean for you and your life? We're not going to be harping on your mother anymore. we're going to be talking about like what are we doing for you, for your life now and and your relationships that we heal that part that we don't repeat those patterns. So, I think people definitely therapy is great, but again, like what does that mean you're in therapy? Like, what work are you doing? And that's why I say like if you're dating someone that's in therapy, right, that they say, "Oh, you know, he has anxiety, but he's in therapy." Okay, great. I want to talk to him about like what do you do in therapy? like what does your therapist work on and where is the anxiety from and like how are you dealing with it and like we want to know that there's an actual like process of work going on there cuz yeah it's not and there are therapists that like you just go in the room and not much is happening. >> Yeah. I mean there it's important to note that there are just like there are bad doctors and there are bad teachers and there are bad therapists. >> Yeah. Yes. Not all therapists are good some are downright dangerous. Um, and that's why I say do your research also like get referrals, ask your rabbi, ask your doctor, ask your friends. That's why these conversations being open is actually good because if you say, "Oh, I sent my kid to this therapist. She was amazing for her." Or, "I went to this therapist. He was amazing." This is helpful for people. >> The more we operate in in darkness, the the more scary it is. >> Yes. >> If you're hurt or find yourself in an accident, which let's be real, it happens more than we like it. You need the right lawyer on your side. That's when you call the Rothenberg Law Firm. For over 55 years, they've been a cornerstone in our community, helping people just like you. They've won and collected billions of dollars for their clients. And the best part, if they don't win, you don't pay. When you choose Rothenberg, you're not just getting a lawyer, you're getting a trusted friend who treats you like family. They understand that a personal injury can turn your life upside down. So, they go well beyond just legal representation. They will make sure your medical bills are paid by the appropriate parties and that your family is taken care of during this rough time. 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Don't miss out on this opportunity. Head to townlines.com right now. Savings are happening all year and you don't want to miss out. Town appliance.com. Ever since 1979, they've been the number one choice for everybody. And they understand you. They're from community. So head to townlines.com or you can shoot them message on WhatsApp. How cool is that? tennoffliance.com or shoot a message on WhatsApp the link in the show notes and back this episode and I think like there's still big parts of our of our community that are operating in darkness when it comes to these things and and the needle has moved a lot. We've moved in a place from people not going to therapy to now going but they're quiet about it. But I think a big part of it is so important that they talk about it. You know, I think Dr. Dr. Ki Pearlman told me that when he opened up his practice uh this clinic in Williamsburg in the heart of the Kish community over there. Um he made one waiting room and he was told no you really should make separate ones because more people he's like no if we're doing this we're doing it the right way. People are going to come and part of the therapy in a way is they're going to sit there and they're going to see other people are also there and that is fine. >> Yeah >> that is fine. I remember years ago I struggled with infertility after I had my first and I remember I was in a fertility clinic to like I was trying to have my second child and I remember feeling I was 20some at the time and I was like oh my god I'm so embarrassed that I'm here. What if I see someone? What if I see someone? And then I remember checking myself and saying if I see someone they're here for the same reason. We're in this together. >> They're not coming to like drop off. >> Yeah. They're not like coming to see who's there you know. So I was like, if I see someone to come in and take a notepad, >> okay, Rachel Tuckman was there, guys. Rachel Tuckman was at the fertility clinic, guys. So like I I checked myself. I'm like, "No, they're here for the same reason." So obviously when they come in, I'm not going to be like, "Hey." Right? Cuz maybe they don't want that. But I'm not going to feel ashamed. Like you're here, I'm here. And I'm going to even have a po like a manner about myself that like I don't need to be ashamed. And I don't want you to be either. Like I'm here too, you know? And so that was like something that I really like if you're in this room, you're here for the same reasons, you know, or similar there's some kind of fertility related reason that you're here, not just coming to say hi to the doctor for nothing, you know. So in a therapy room also like yes, if someone's waiting in the waiting room, they're for they're also there for help. And again, I think we need to like destigmatize help. Like I think that we've created this culture and I don't know if it's I don't think it's strictly Jewish. which I don't think it's I I do think maybe it's more pronounced because we do believe in you know there's a perfectionist culture here there's a you know that we're like have it together and our lives are perfect and great for you know so I think that definitely we maybe have more of it but I think that we live in a a world that's like you should be able to handle everything yourself you know like you got this and if you don't it's like what's wrong with you and I say like we don't got this like we have to learn how to do things and there's some things we can't do there's a reason we hire a plumber or we hire an electrician or because if you do it yourself, you're going to electrocute yourself or your pipes are going to explode. Like we have to understand like sometimes we need to hire a therapist because there's certain issues we just don't know how to navigate, you know? And I always say like when you're in therapy, you can view it as I'm in therapy because I have to deal with the people in my life that won't go to therapy. >> So maybe it's not a me thing, maybe it's a them thing, you know? Like if I can never get my mother in the room cuz she'll never go to therapy, like I'm going to go to therapy. If I can never get my sister-in-law in the room because she doesn't think she's a problem, I'm not talking about my mother or sister-in-law. Um then then I'm going to go to learn how to deal with the people in my life that won't go to therapy, you know. So I think even if we think about it that way, sometimes it helps. But I I do think that yes, there's a stigma and I think that's a big part of why people don't get help for even more serious issues like we were, you know, like issues with food and body and and their kids learning issues and and even let's say dating. you're having a hard time dating and figuring out what you want and so you're like, "Well, I'm not going to go to a therapist to figure out like why I can't, you know, or why, you know, >> for some reason there's there's like this Yeah, I think it's outdated in a way. I think like it's hopefully making its way out. But, you know, I think you all everyone has that those friends in the friend group that everything's perfect and nothing's wrong ever and everything is amazing and it's like no. Like, no, my daughter kept me out all night and my kid can't go on the bus and my wife can't go on. >> We know we're we're not talking about ourselves. We know. >> Yeah. Um, thank gosh. But um I think like it's it's so outdated to keep to do this whole perfect thing. It's almost like the the '9s movies like the you know Hello Lucy like everyone was every everything was perfect and Maria is fine and and everything >> if for those people who are still perpetuating that and like still trying to put up this perfect facade >> you're doing such a disservice to your friends. I think people the reason people do that is I mean there's probably like a bunch of reasons. Number one, I I don't think we need to walk around telling people our problems all the time, right? >> There's a a line, right? Meaning yes, it it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Like I either have to trauma dump on you or it could just be like yeah, you know, like you know, life is tough, life is rough. So I I do think that for sure again kind of I don't want to rail on social media because I don't think that's you could be on social media. >> Well, I don't think it's the only problem. meaning there's so much more than that. But I think it definitely does perpetuate like an issue. But yes, social media is about let me show you the best moments, right? >> But sometimes we have the opposite even on social media where people are like, oh, we don't want it to look perfect, so we're going to like show you our train wrecky life or like our kids are screaming and then I'm going to complain about my husband or he's going to complain about me. And again, we don't have to do either. But I do think that yes, I think it's important for us to remember like each individual to remember just like I know my life is not perfect and I have my issues. Everybody has their issues. No one's life is perfect. And I I guess like in my job I guess in some ways like I have a reminder every day that I work with people who yeah it could be that their lives look perfect but I'm privy to the parts of it that aren't. So I don't think about that like I don't look at someone's life and think like wow like their life is perfect. It must be amazing. I know that everyone has struggles. And you know, we always hear that anal like that that thought like if everybody took their problems and threw it into the middle of the room and labeled what their problems were, you would be like, "No, thank you. I'll take mine right back." >> He was >> 150%. 100 million%. Without a doubt, you would 1 million%. >> Even though it sounds like literally their their their thing was like really bad, like really they take their own. >> Yes. Because even with your really bad, the person who maybe doesn't have your really bad has some other bad that you just would not want to deal with. You don't feel a corpse. >> You wouldn't want to deal with it because, you know, so you have that really bad, but maybe there's something else that's that you're not dealing with that you would feel like, oh my god, but I wouldn't know how to deal with that. So, there really is a truth to that that yes, you would just be like, you know what, my problems are they're rough. They're bad and like I wish I wasn't dealing with this, but like I do not want to deal with that. Um, and I really fully believe that. Um, I guess we'll never know because we're not all throwing our problems in a bag and throwing them in the middle of the room. But, you know, I it it's hard. But I think people just need to remember like we don't need to ask people like, "What's going on in your life that stinks?" You know, but I think we do need to remember that even when things look perfect, like there's always something going on underneath the surface. And it could be a complicated family relationship, something with their kids, finances, health, you know, it could be a million things. Something with their house, something. there's so much going on for people and there's no such thing as like a unique problem also meaning everybody has everything. So I think that we just really need to remember that everybody has their stuff and we just need to focus on our four walls. I say this a lot in therapy like stop looking outside of your home. Stop looking at their marriage, their children, their house, their construction, their car. Stop looking because if you do we make up in our heads, right? We make up in our heads what other people's lives look like. And then yes, we're miserable. Well, she has a nicer house or they have a better their kids don't have issues. And oh, but her mother is nicer. Oh, and her mother was a baby nurse and her mother-in-law is sweeter and their parents give them more money and they take them away on P. We could go from here to tomorrow all the reasons that everybody else's life is better than ours. And I say like, how does that serve you? What does that do for you? Is it helping you? Is it making you feel better? Like yes, some people's lives are better than you and some people's lives are worse than you. And so what? Please just keep your eyes on your four walls and work on what needs to be worked on. Pay attention to your family, to your kids, to your relationship, to your husband, to your parents, to whatever it is. Because again, it doesn't do any good to look at anyone else. You know, it just it makes us feel worse. And that's why in a lot of ways again sometimes the culture on social media is look at me and look at my life and look at my kids and look at my stuff Bontiff and look at my table and look at and it's like maybe we need to just stop looking. Stop looking. And if it doesn't make you feel good and you feel bad about yourself and you think their life is great, then unfollow, mute, log off, touch grass, we say, right? Like turn around and say like, you know what, I'm starting to feel bad about my life. Like I need to stop looking at this. it's not helping me. Um, and I want more of that self-awareness. >> That's a very it's a very like healthy level of self-awareness though that unfortunately I don't think you know is super super rampant. Is there something though that you think um that influencers or even people like myself who have a big platform could be doing that can um either be better than what's happening if you're talking to influencers at large about how they use their platforms that can like better serve the people who are who are looking based on you with your clients and you hear what they say. If you can speak to every single influencer in our room right now and just say, "Hey, I'm a therapist and I want to tell you this." What would you say? I would say this is like for I think for content creators and for consumers again I think it falls equally on both of us. I think we just need to be very mindful about what we're doing and about how we're posting and about how we're scrolling and about what we're sharing. And I think that we need to think about before I agree to work with this company or before I agree to post this thing like what am I doing here and how do I think that's going to affect my community? And I think that if you're like a Jewish influencer, again, I know that maybe this is not the most practical or it seems too idealistic, but think about like you're working within your community and the things that you do and post are going to affect the community as a whole, which will then affect your families. So, think about is this something that I want to become like the norm here? Is this a culture that I want to push? Is this something that I think is like valuable? And again, I understand people need to make money and businesses need to make money and so they need to promote their clothing for Yansf or their Shabas, you know, dishes or whatever it is. I understand that. But I do think that we are living in a culture of certainly online of excess. And it's never enough. And you need this, you need this, you need this, you need this, you need this. And this is why we have people, again, goes back to that anxiety piece. I don't have, I need more. I just bought this thing for Shabas last week, but now there's this better thing. How many iPhones are we up to now? Right. What's the one that just came out? What are we up to? Seven. Right. iPhone comes out with a new one. >> When does it get stupid? Like 20. Like that's >> it's But I feel like it will never Right. Everyone's so excited for the 17. It's crazy. And they know what they're doing, right? And then you're like, and then your phone slows down miraculously, right? You're like, this >> hunk of junk. Okay. Wow. Very good. Did it slow down yet? >> I think it's I don't have perfect speeds. >> Yeah, they slow it down when when they come out with a new one. But even thinking about that, how every 2 years there's like a new phone, bigger and better, bigger and better, bigger and better. >> But you know what? I would I would not go as far as the Apple conversation as I as I would with the from companies with circles from clothing stores that are >> But do you but but I'm saying but they look at how profitable Apple is and they're saying look something new every two years. So they say oh we need to convince people that they need something new always better. And again, we live in this culture that like we have this like attention issue that we get bored of things so quickly and again it's that algorithm and it's you know that we're told like you just that was already last year like you you need something new now you know every you need a whole new wardrobe every you need a brand new tablescape every and again some people if you want that that's great and whatever but I want people to think about do I need this and is that the message I'm getting is that true can I afford it like financially is this a good idea I know I'm being told that I need this can I do that we have to be responsible we have to think about these things so I think again it's on both the consumer please be aware and I'm hoping conversations like this it's putting it on the map oh I need to be mindful when I'm scrolling I can't just like click click maybe put it in the cart and let it sit for a while don't buy it right away you know if you put it in the cart >> also like life app if you put it in your cart and you leave it >> they're going to email you like you know few hours later probably with a discount code because you left it in your cart just saying >> yes but also it's going They keep coming up in like your your ads and >> so if I mistake go on Uber Eats just so like Bobby mistake click on Uber Eats instead of like Instagram I'll get like 10 minutes later so you're hungry >> what like give it to them like what do you like >> yes these they know these algorithms know they know how to push it and it used to be by the way that we would say put in your cart and if you're still thinking about it buy it. So now they're like oh we want to make sure they keep thinking about it. Yeah. It's important for consumers to know though that brands do not >> and I don't know if they should even they're they're there to make money. They're there to do business. Even Jewish companies, >> they don't have your best interest in mind. So, we can't blame the brands. They're there to make money. As a consumer, you need to know that this whole like >> you need to buy new clothing for every season for your child who's two and a half that's growing by the day. >> Maybe you don't like maybe Hamming downs are fine if you had a 2-year-old 2 years ago. Maybe you don't need to buy everything brand new. The brands are going to push it. They're going to try to get, you know, platforms to to make it seem a way. They're going to get influencers to make it seem that way. But again, the grassroots, it always comes down to the grassroots is it's up to the people who are listening to this, I feel, to say, "Hey, we don't need this." And this is the buck stops here. It stops with us. >> We only these things only have power if we give it power. Yes. >> That's it. >> Right. And yeah, listen, I I believe companies are allowed to make money and consumers are allowed to say, "Okay, but that's not where I'm going to put my money." So, I do think definitely, like I said, we have to be aware, do I have to? And again, I know it's hard like when I talk about this, people will say, "Yeah, but what about, you know, if I talk about like you don't need to buy your kid that $250 sweatshirt?" They're like, "Yeah, but all their friends have it." Like, >> what do you say to a mother that that plays that where it's just like constantly trying to make sure their child has what everyone everyone else has, >> right? So, I mean, so I see it's not just mothers, it's fathers, too. But what I would say is, again, this kind of even goes back to what we were saying before. If we're always buying our kids things because everyone has it and we want them to feel a part of something, I would say, what's going on underneath that? Did you not feel a part of things when you were a kid? Did you grow up that you couldn't have certain things? Did you grow up thinking you had to have certain things to be part of something? If we're teaching our kids that you have to have a certain logo to be included, to be keeping up with the cool kids and whatever, then again, we're teaching our kids that their worth is very exteriorbased and it's based on what you have and that's what's important. It's how you look and instead of teaching that friendships are so much more than that. It literally doesn't matter what you're wearing. If you have that brand or that brand, it's irrelevant, right? So, I think that we need to I wish it were easier for parents. And again, I'm not going to say like just don't buy it for your kid. I understand the I'm a mom of teenagers. I totally understand. >> What would you say to your What would you say to your kids? >> So to my kids, I would probably say it could be a gift from a grandparent. It could be a gift for a some kind of special occasion if it were in the budget. Or I would just say like, you know, I get that that's like what everyone's wearing and it's cool, but either we could split, right? We could also find like a mid, you know, a middle grounds of like you pay half and I'll pay half. Um, and again, it's not even about like it's a financial meaning. I wouldn't want to tell my kids I wouldn't say to them I can't afford it, right? you know, I don't want to do anything, >> right? It's saying, so it's for me it's not even a money thing. It's again, it's on principle. Um, so I would say either it's a gift that somebody can give to you, you know, hey, go ask Bubby and Zida, right? Ask them. Um, or it could be like, like I said, a special occasion type of thing. Like I'm not just plunking down 300 bucks on a sweater for you because it's like Tuesday. >> Or if you don't want them to have it, like >> so that if I don't if it's a value system, then I would say like I get it, but like when you're this age, let's say you're 14, like I'm not comfortable with that, you know? And I would have to sit with the discomfort of my kid feeling unhappy with me. And I think a lot of parents don't want that. I don't want my kids to be mad at me. I don't want them to say, "You're so mean." I don't want them to be like, "But everybody has it and that's why they have a phone at, you know, in sixth grade or whatever." We have to say no to our kids. And I think a big problem is that parents don't want to say no to their kids. They're afraid. Um, and so thankfully, for the most part, I'm more afraid of my nine-year-old, honestly, than my older ones. But I'm not afraid to say no. Um, and again, it doesn't mean that I don't compromise. Like I said, if you know, you want to go havsies, you want to buy it yourself, I'm not going to stop you. If you're, you know, 19 and you want to buy that thing, I can't tell you what to do anymore. But I think that we definitely need to learn to say no. No, you can't have social media. No, you can't have a phone. No, you know, or here's the the parameters for what I'm gonna allow. And I think that parents, again, if we saw the tie between saying yes to a lot of these things and a lot of the mental health issues that are occurring in our communities now, I think it would be easier for parents to realize like if I say yes to this, I'm actually not doing anything good for them. I'm actually creating a bigger problem. >> And you see the time? >> Yeah, 100%. >> So, you're telling them that? >> Yeah. I'm not saying like if you get that sweatshirt, I'm not going to say any labels here like then they're going to be in my office in 5 years. But I am saying like sometimes probably cheaper long >> may probably um but the benefits of the therapy are much longer term but I think that no sometimes we have to say like my kid is coming to me and asking for this thing and like what's going to happen if I say yes like and why am I wanting to say yes and what am I afraid of if I say no am I afraid that they're going to be like the loser with no friends and then if that's the case like there's again probably a deeper issue that if my kid is a a loser with no friends I don't think kids are losers with no friends but if that's how I see it then slapping that sweatshirt on them just means they're a loser with no friends with the fancy sweatshirt now. It didn't change the reality. And by the way, that's how the kids see them. Oh, you're trying to be cool. So, it's not fixing it. So, I think we need to be looking at like again, what am I trying to solve by covering it up with the sweatshirt, with the fancy thing, with the diet, with the what am I trying to fix in a way that's very surface, not very meaningful, and maybe an avoidance. >> Yeah. It all comes down to what's going on under the hood. Yeah. And I don't want to deal with it so it's easier for me just to do that quick fix. Just get the sweatshirt. Like stop. I don't want to hear the whining. Just give her the phone. Just give her the She wants Instagram. Give her Instagram. I have to think about this. No. I We have to have certain fights. And again, I think some parents just don't want to do it. And I understand it. It's hard, especially if you have a bunch of kids. You're busy. You don't want to be fighting with your kids. But again, at the end of the day, like that short-term gain of like, I don't want to deal with it is to their long-term detriment. So, we have to think about now and the years are short with our kids. You know, the days are long, but the years are short and we h this like limited amount of time to make sure that we instill the right values in them and that we do it in a in the right way, right? Meaning, we're not going to be like, "You can't have a sweatshirt. Knock it off." Could be a respectful discussion. You know, that's not we don't want to spend our money on those kinds of things. I know that everybody has it, but that's not like in our family, those aren't the kind of values. I'm happy to like get you clothes, but like we don't do the, you know, $300 or whatever it is. Um, and I think just having respectful conversations, validating our kids, too. Understanding when they're like, "But everyone has it. I hear you. That's tough. I know. I I understand. And I know that you're probably not happy with me, right? We're not being callous or like tough nugs." Like, that's how it is, you know? So, I think those conversations have to be carried out sensitively so that your relationship stays intact because relationship is really the key here. Like, our kids can handle disappointment when they feel more connected to us. And then that they believe that even though I'm not happy with you, I know it's in my best interest and I know eventually when I'm an adult, I'm going to understand why you made that decision. And so maybe right now I think you're the meanest and the worst, but eventually we hope with a lot of dabbing and a lot of, you know, work that they're going to turn around one day and be like, "You know what? I remember the time like I thought you were so mean, but like I totally understand why you did that now and like I thank you and I'm grateful for it and or maybe they never say it but they think it, you know, but I think we just need to learn to hold stronger boundaries with our kids and understand that it's for their benefit, you know. Um, it's hard. It's hard. parents don't want to do it and I hear you. I'm with you. I don't always say no when I should, but I try. So, >> yeah. Well, thank you so much for for joining for joining me in this conversation. I feel like >> we hit the tip of the iceberg on some of this stuff, but like >> maybe going font the fruit thing to think about it and talk about it or not talk about it. How about don't talk about it? >> Just don't talk about it yet. Just >> you hear that episode of people? Yeah, let's not talk about it. >> Yeah, let's not. Let's just enjoy our yantiff and enjoy our family and not talk about food and and even if we want to take a walk after because we feel disgusting at the table, we don't tie it to just say I'm going to go take a walk. It's beautiful. Who wants to come with? Don't tie it to >> enjoy it though. Like when you're enjoy it. >> Yeah. >> Just enjoy and not stressing about it and and yeah, not making it a big deal. >> Amazing. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. >> Thanks. >> Before we get to the outro of this episode, I'll tell you that you can enter the Dream Raffle right now. Yes, the Dream Raffle is back. You can win a $1.2 $2 million apartment in the heart of Jerusalem. I soon will be in Urus Lime and I'm going to check out this apartment and tell you guys with my own eyes how legit it is. But there have been winners the past several years who won an actual apartment or you could take the cash prize $600,000. Can you use that in your life right now? Enter the dream raffle right now at the dreamaffle.com. But make sure to use promo code MPP. You get $10 off plus you get double the amount of tickets you get. Okay? So, if you buy two tickets, you'll get four tickets and $10 off that. And if you enter before November 17th, you'll be entered in a raffle to win $15,000. $15,000. If you enter before November 17th. So, right now, head to the dreamaffle.com and get the link in the show not to this episode. Buy your tickets. Use promo code MPP. Save some money, get more tickets, and a $1.2 million apartment in the heart of your can be yours. Okay. I hope you enjoyed this episode. A really important one. Send it to your mom. Send it to your grandma. Send it to your friends. We're always talking about food and how food is this, food is that. It's time we change the way we talk about food. People doesn't have to make you feel that way. Thank you to Rachel Tuckman for coming on this show. We spoke about a lot of different topics, but that was one that stuck with me. Thank you so much. If you want to hear more from conversations like this and others plus content, make sure to join meaningful minute plus today. That is mm plus.org. We have thousands of people who have already joined us there and they are enjoying extra hours, hours, tens of hours of content, stories of hope, plus meaningful people plus live streams every single week. The two cents podcast just for Plus members. 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