Lifnei Iver - Misleading Others | Rabbi Anthony Manning | July 8 2026

Thank you all for coming. If I could thank our sponsors for the Shirim. The Wednesday morning bin Rash is sponsored this year and dedicated Ilu Nishmos Daniel Ben Davidid and Limut Ara Strauss and Morai Ben Mosha and Raiselbat Ysef May Marcus. These are the parents of Judy and Manak Marcus. And the Shir is also specifically sponsored. Abas Brandit and Zelig Benalman Alleheim Hash Shalom. So we're very grateful for those sponsorships. Um I'd like to encourage you please if you haven't already done so to take the opportunity to sponsor a Shia here at the OU. You can re reach out to Rabbi Plo. You can reach out to Rabbi Shaw um or speak to the people working in the back. Uh the sponsorships go a very very long way and uh we're very very grateful for them. And if I could also just uh mention um because I mentioned last week and today is the final day of the campaign. Um as you may know that and I I have permission from the U to mention this uh I am the director Midrash of a of a seminary Midashaya which is part of the Chappelle's family of school. Chappelle is the yeshiva MRC is the women's school. Um, and we are trying very hard to raise money in order to keep going next year with the dollar and the shekele, as I'm sure you're aware, being what they are. This has caused absolute havoc with uh the budgets and we want to make sure that we do what we do. I could talk to you all day about MRC, but that's not what you came here to do. Um, I would just mention one thing. It it is the only it is a school for women in their 20ies. It's not a gap year program. Therefore, the women have very little independent funding and their parents are usually not interested in funding it. Uh they're women in college and and young professionals. But I think that I can say with some confidence that Chappelle's MRC really is uh the only program where students will receive a genuinely nuanced uh balanced I mean everyone's idea of balanced is different. Okay, I get that. But definitely a range of perspectives on many of the hashgraphic issues which uh cause stress uh in our times. This is an organization which they are encouraged to make up their own minds and and hear different understandings and and move on from there. I think that's very important. Personally, I think that's part of the solution in our uh sinam sort of oriented world. It's tempting to just be in a bubble. We try to avoid that. So, I've actually a little bit of high-tech, which I know is a very high-tech crowd here. I've brought you a QR code. Uh, I'm sure you all know how to scan a QR code. Uh, and you that will take you straight to a link. Uh, in the event that you don't know how to scan a QR code, uh, you I put the link at the top. You can just type that in or you can just email me and I'm happy to help. Uh, and that's the end of my uh, my uh, commercial break on that. Okay, we are in the middle of three or four shim which will take us to we will uh break after tish for a few weeks. Uh we are looking at the big picture issue of colleic which we haven't really addressed directly at all yet which I'm leading up to. Last week we opened with a very complicated mitzvah of the fact that we often find it very difficult and it's often counterproductive when we try to give to other people and therefore there are many reasons why we should not get involved if it's going to make things worse. But nevertheless that we have to care. We can't not care. Uh and saying it's not my problem is simply not one of the options. And we'll talk more about that um when we get colle. We didn't quite finish last week and I'm not going to do it now. I'm going to do it in a couple of weeks on the issue of who is a showgake. Uh who do we think is doing things on purpose, by accident, um with knowledge, without knowledge. We'll get to that when we get there. But I want to spend a little time talking about a mega mitzvah of which is what responsibility do we have not to forget about taking people away from problems? What if we're causing those problems? What if we're leading people either willingly or unwillingly, wittingly or unwittingly into more problems? Is that my responsibility? Am I responsible for the choices you make? If you know, I work I I brought you a number of cases here. Maybe I won't mention that specific one now. Maybe let's look at them together. But these are all cases. I brought you about 30. And they're just 30 of hundreds and hundreds. And I'm not saying all of these are problematic. Some of these are very problematic. Some of these are questionable. Some of these are completely fine, but look at the list and see what kind of things we're going to have to talk about this week and next. Inviting people to your home on Shabas who will drive, but they're going to experience an amazing Shabas and maybe that's not something they get every week and that could impact them. What about if a Jewish driver stops on Shabas and says, "Can you tell me the way to to Shul?" I've had that before, by the way, in Golden Green. Someone was driving to Shul starts say, "Could you tell me the way to get there?" Okay, what do you do? Uh what if you just crossed a road on Shabas in a place in Israel where many of the drivers are Jewish and they're going to stop for you? Is that a problem? They put their foot on the brake. At least you hope they do. Usually they don't. It's fine in Israel. They they just pl plow through either way. So uh if they do put their foot on the brake, is that your responsibility? What about handing over a job to someone who's going to do it on Shabas? Giving a bar mitzvah present where the bar mitzvah boy is going to carry it home. And there's no a was always an issue when I was growing up. hiring a babysitter and she's going to charge you on Shabas by the hour. She's not allowed to do that. She can't charge you by the hour on Shabas and you're encouraging that. What about printing saw sheets with shame hashem? I'm very careful on my soul sheets not to have UK v on them. They're going to be thrown away. Let's say buying cigarettes for a parent. Paying a worker that you suspect is not paying taxes. >> Oh my goodness. >> Oh, I'll do it but only for cash. Now, is that your responsibility? Maybe they just like having cash and it's and they're going to work out their taxes six months from now. Do you I mean you might say, "Oh, I think you're not going to pay your taxes." Do you know that? Are you responsible for that? Is that your problem? What about a rabbi officiating at a wedding where the couple will not keep on? Is he encouraging that? On the other hand, if he doesn't do it, somebody else will. Maybe he'll have an impact on them. Again, I'm not telling you all of these are problem. I'm just raising questions. Rais renting out a hall. you own a catering hall and the people are going to have a function that's not kosher or mixed dancing which I'm sure you think is even worse right okay selling meat to the Jews during the nine days uh selling non-coosher meat to non-religious Jews okay let's say you work on a checkout in the supermarket and a Jewish customer comes it's a non-Jewish supermarket and they're putting a you know a leg of ham through are you allowed to push it through saying no problem madam or are you encouraging that selling clothes with shatners to people who don't care um serving giving food to people who won't make brahot. Now, of course, we all understand intuitively, if not from our learning, that of course you're going to offer food to people who don't make braots. But, but how and why? Why is that okay? Um, I used to have this as a junior picking up a non-coosher lunch for a non-religious, non-observant Jewish boss. A junior lawyer, the boss says, "Just pop over the road and get me a sandwich, please." Not Jewish, not kosher, rather. Jewish boss, not kosher sandwich. My responsibility or not? uh letting somebody else copy your work to get a better mark in a test, selling clothes which are non-sura, um giving a bribe to an official, renting an apartment to non-religious Jews who won't put up muzas, let's say. There's many cases here where selling alcohol to kids or people you think are going to abuse it, acting as a lawyer. As a lawyer, you're as a Jew who's suing in a non-Jewish court and they shouldn't be or charging interest in a contract and they shouldn't be. And you're the lawyer. um uh an army officer telling a non-religious soldier to shave when you know they're going to use like a razor, wet razor. What about if you're a religious soldier switching your shabas duty with a nonobservant soldier? Can you make him your shabas guy on the one hand? On the other hand, you know, he's now doing good things on Shabas and not driving around somewhere else on Shabas. On the other hand, shouldn't you be the one who's running to do and the mitzvah rather than giving it to someone else? um uh taking an animal to a vet. I ask this I get asked this quite a lot to be neutered. Uh people look very judgmentally on people who don't have pets who are neutered as if they're somehow causing all the problems in the world that we live in today. And there's a lot of pressure on people to do that. But it's hakically problematic. Um someone asked me recently she wanted to take a job in an organization organizing their office and logistics for training reform rabbis. Is that okay or is that not okay? selling weapons to people who will misuse them. Working in as an anesthesiologist in a in a hospital that they going to perform an abortion or dispensing pills. You could go on and on and on and on with cases where you're getting involved in other people's potential avail. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. They used to vary on second day answer. The problem was everybody drove to the burial. That's the problem. That's why they stopped doing it because everyone would get in the car and just drive on second day on. So let's let's have a look at uh at the sources. There's some really interesting mccorat here. Very interesting indeed. Um and we'll see the structure of it and then next week we'll put this structure. You have to remember from this week to next week, I'm afraid you'll put this structure into all the cases we're looking at next week. um and we'll see how and why they come out. But without the structure, the cases seem a bit random. And of course, they're not. Let's start with the P. Number one, do not curse the deaf even though they can't hear you. Okay, that doesn't matter. You can't curse them. Now, literally in front of a blind person, do not put a a block, a stumbling block we usually call it. And then at the end of the says, You have to fear God because I says God am watching I am God. Why we why do we have that the end of that? So what's the what's the so brings down and says number two he quotes from the midrash in front of somebody who is blind to an issue to a thing. do not give advice which is not the right advice for them which of course is not what it says in the he says don't put up stumbling block or or does it say that he says it no it means don't give advice don't say to him sell your field and go buy donkeys you know sell these investments and buy these investments and you're really just trying to go behind his back and you're trying to get hold of the field, meaning you have an agenda and you are misleading other people in order to feed your and help your agenda. That he says is the prohibition. Well, what if you actually ran into the street and put a concrete block in front of a blind person and stood by while they fell over it. So clearly that is prohibited on any number of Torah levels apart from you know any others. etc. But says number three, he says this actual of is completely detached from its apparent chance. If you put an actual a stone, you're not breaking this mitzvah because this is not talking about that. And by the way, there's a word there's a word in the there's a few words that indicate that there's something different going on here. What does mean to give? Do not give a stumbling block. Now that's an unusual word. It sounds like you shouldn't put a stumbling block. And also the why does it say? So look at number four says Rashi because the point is this mitzvah other people don't know your motivations they don't know how to tell mean maybe you really thought it was good investing to sell land and buy uh you know chattles maybe you thought that you could say well I genuinely thought that the sh you could get out of your responsibility and claim no no I I meant well. It just turned out badly. That's why it says you must fear God because God knows your motivations. You might try and sneak out of it and say, "Oh, no. I meant it." Well, you can't fool that. You can't fool. He gives an interesting anytime it says an every time there's a mitzvah which is in your mind that other people can't see your motivation. by you. Other people don't know what you're doing. Boy, it says in the vlog God. That's an indication that this is the kind of mitzvah that other people don't don't get your motivation, but God does. So, you see from there, if somebody sees you running to the middle of the road, put a concrete block in front of a blind person, stand by and watch them fall over, there's no one that's going to misunderstand your motivations. You're not going to be able to turn around and say, "Oh, I intended it for for positive reasons." What what positive reasons could you have intended it for? So therefore, you see that the actual physical mitzvah of doing that, the physical prohibition rather is not there. It's many other mitzvah of course and we'll see the Rambam as well in a minute is very explicitly like that gets it from the look at the inside in number five and it gives more a more expansive number of cases. Okay. He someone comes to you and said well this this particular young lady can she marry a coheno don't say to him that she's fine but he meaning giving bad advice in getting people into bad marriages because of whatever reason that you have that is included that's also part of this mitzvah someone comes for just advice. Don't say leave early in the morning when you know that's dangerous and people might attack him. Go at lunchtime and you know they're going to dehydrated. Think carefully before you advise people. Think before you speak. It's actually very important for social media. Um think before you speak and even more so before you write. I had a bit of experience with this this week on an issue and it I don't get involved in social media very often because it's usually I've got other things to do with my life. Um but you see how people don't think before they press send. They write things. They say things that like if have you just thought about what you just said is that appropriate people somehow have have lost the ability to sit back and think am I saying the right thing giving the right advice? And then he gives the advant the the example that Rashi gives of don't give people bad business advice. Look at the Rambam because the Rambam now expands it into the area we'll talk about for the rest of the Shia. Number six number 299. We're not allowed to give bad advice to other people. Someone asks you something and you have your own agenda. You're tempted to say something that is helping you, not helping them. This is telling you not to ever do that. Put them on a straight path. Give them good advice. Be and say you don't know when you don't know. It's very hard for some people to say, "I don't know." Probably the most important three words you can ever learn. I don't know. is someone who is blinded to an issue. Good. So far we've seen this. But then the Rambon goes further. And also included in this is someone who helps somebody to do an or you bring the circumstances about. So this man is a blind person. Why are they blind? Because they're blind to their ty their ty has blinded them. They are unable to see through the they have their eye has been blinded. They become a blind person and the theor is tempting them and you're help you're encouraging a blind person to trip up. or you're preparing the the ground for him to be able to do this. That's why they said that if you're lending on interest or if you're borrowing on interest, you're not only doing the prohibition of lending or borrowing on interest, but you're also causing the other person to do their prohibition. You're borrowing on interest and you're making them lend on interest. you'll end on interest. You'll you're making them borrow on interest and that's okay. That's not okay at all. And then he says an interesting linear there are so many situations that come up. I mean we can see just from that list on the front of the page of this kind of type about which the rabbi said. That's why I brought this mitzvah because again in this series I'm giving I'm not looking at the very very specific details of individual mitzvah. I'm looking at the bigger picture and the Rambam warns us here like we remember we said last week it's the only place that the Rambam says do you want us to turn the air on more? Is it like it's like are people hot? No. Yes. Maybe someone could just ask whoever is able to do that. Okay. You can always open the windows, but then when the air goes up, well, then we can have a discussion for 30 minutes about whether it's hot or cold. Okay, fine. But just like we said last week, the is the opposite of the Torah. When does he ever say that about anything else? Never. Only here too he says there are so many areas this comes up and then he says, but what's the good not giving bad advice? Even the Rambam says that Shad is not putting concrete blocks in front of people. Okay, good. So far so good. That sets the parameters for the mitzvah. Now let's look at these Gumaras because the Gmoras bring out other examples and we'll see some fascinating limitations on this mitzvah. So interesting the example that he gives in the Gmorra in Mo number seven is the somebody who strikes their child. I'm not getting into whether smacking children is a is is always a bad thing, ever a good thing. I'm not getting into that debate now. But somebody who lashes out at an older child who might hit back, okay, that's what that's what the posy is talking about. What age is that child? So, it depends on the society. The Gammorra wants to say, well, no, we would have the to hit back till they're like 20 or 21. Okay, maybe that's not the case today. But the problem is you can't put someone else in a compromised position. Got a question? So, it's okay to hit a child. >> I'm not saying that. I didn't say that. I specifically said I'm not getting into the discussion about whether it's ever okay to hit a child who won't hit back. I'm not getting into that discussion because it's it's not a simple matter. You know, a child's about to run into the road in front of a truck and won't stand and you say, "Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that." The kid's three years old and is not listening. How do you again I'm not getting into parenting advice but the the issue of uh of uh of hitting an older child there is an extra issue and the issue of lending on interest which is number eight including of course the lawyer this is where the lawyers get it says the following people are breaking the Torah when they're lending money on interest the lender the borrower the guarantor the witnesses the rabbis added afasur even the scribe for the scribe read the lawyer and when I was a lawyer this was an issue I had many uh I didn't have that many Jewish clients I worked in a very non-Jewish firm which actually worked very well with me um and most of my clients were non-Jewish but a few of them were Jewish and uh and they were not observant and therefore they entered into contracts lending on interest borrowing on interest etc question if they worked with a contract with another Jew if they were with a non-Jew okay it was wasn't often a problem it was a problem with one particular client which although interesting this particular client liked me anyway because I once spotted uh saved him a million dollars that he wasn't expecting to get and he and he he bought me a crate about 26 28 bottles of very expensive Trafe champagne it was it was remarkable and I asked a shila and and I was told especially since I'm an Ashkanazi which you can get hau from tra wine I uh sold it I gave gave it away to people, swapped it for whiskey and all those sorts of things. So anyway, so that's uh so so that client was a problem client, but he we we worked it out anyway. Now, how are we going to limit this? Do I really have responsibility for everything? What if people just, you know, I could sell a knife to someone in a DIY store and they could take it and use it to hold up someone and muck someone. I'm responsible for that. I'm not responsible for that. How are you going to draw these lines? So there are three major limitations. 9, 10, and 11. Let's look at nine. Raashi had an abba. That doesn't mean here a daddy. It means a forest. He he he was the owner of a forest. Um and he'd sell wood to benura. These were okay. Who used to light fires to their gods. Yeah. And he used the wood. So ra came up to and said follow. How are you doing this? You're selling woods to these people and they're using it for a vodora. Okay. So he answered in he said noimaka the majority of people who come and buy my wood buy it to light fires to to heat the house. They don't buy for a votor. Ah every now and then someone comes and buys for that's not my responsibility because I'm selling something that is generally speaking being used for a perfectly legitimate purpose. How far does this go? I I had a friend in London who was given the contract to supply the marble floors for the new Hindu temple. An interest a very lucrative contract. It was a very beautiful temple being built. So is he allowed to do that uh or not? And then you of course you have to get into questions of well is that a vodora? Is that not a vodora? Am I encouraging a vodora? They're just walking on the floor is it for the entrance hall not just for the shrine? And and again you get into very interesting questions. Whenever you hit aodoro questions, you always ask have to ask people who really really get the the the what's going on and don't just guess or or think that they know what's going on. We have this question, it comes up, put it on your calendars every 25 years with the shitles shitles made from hair from Indian women who give their hair up as an offering. And every 20 so years, somebody some bright spark pops up and thinks that they're the first person to realize that this is coming from Indian women. remember this happened about 10 years ago and and and uh they sent somebody to India and and there's a woman walking with a bowl of hair into a temple. He said, "What are you doing?" She goes, "I'm bringing a sacrifice." He go, "Oh, that's it. Everybody shuttle's off." And uh every I actually saw this must be more than 10 years ago because because I was still living in Harov. Maybe May I saw someone burning I assume their wife's Shhatel. Okay. They were burning shettles. Okay, >> so >> at least they took them off their wife's head before they burned them. Okay, >> otherwise they'd have been the real hotads, right? Um, so uh and then of course what did they do then? They sent somebody who knows what goes on in Indian temples, probably some Balua guy who was in an ashram for 15 years and now is the time of okay and he goes and he and he talks to them in Udu or whatever and he realizes they're not they're not bringing a sacrifice as in a Corbin they're making a sacrifice nephesh they're giving something up in their life in order to develop their character etc. And then of course everyone says everything's fine, you know, don't don't burn any more shles. It's all fine. Um, >> what's that? >> Kabad said not to. >> Okay, fine. So next time this comes up, ask your local Kabad rabbi and see and see how it goes. So a vodor is a very interesting one because we'll see we have responsibility not to help non-Jews do a vodaora as well. That's what this Gammorra is saying. But in this case said not a problem because usually it's fine. They're buying for for firewood. Number 10. Leona, what about frankincense? You you have a spice business. So, you can sell it wholesale. You can sell it wholesale. Ah, how do you know the wholesaler won't sell it retail or whatever and someone will use it for a verdora? his comes in and says we are responsible for not to be immediately before the a but two stages removed that's not my responsibility I sell spices wholesale the retail the retailers sell it to whoever they want it's not my responsibility if people buy um buy it and use it for a vodora and rashi explains that that that extra link in the chain is relevant And that's going to be very important for us. You know, when we ask a question, is a rav allowed to do a ha for a couple who are not going to keep hala. So is that lifar or is that lif that's a long way down the chain? Is that their responsibility? We're going to come up with these issues coming up right now. But the most important garra and the most interesting of all is number 11. Because number 11 is a garra of odor which is based off a Mishna. And the Mishna says three days before the non-Jewish festival and he goes through all the festivals Satania and Kendra and all the festivals that we now call by the modern day names like Christmas and Easter and all they're just the same old pagan festivals that they always had. You're not allowed to sell a sheep or an animal to an ovodor. You're not allowed to do that. In some sense, you're responsible for what they're going to do with that on their festival. Why? So the gar now picks up and says why. Number 11. They asked the question, "Is it because they're going to profit?" Meaning, this non-Jew in a day or two is going to go to their god in their temple and they're going to say, "Thank you. You sent me this Jew. I did a great deal. I bought a sheepil for very little money. I'm happy. Thank you, whatever they call their god for sending me the deal." Is that the problem? Or maybe no. The problem is that they're going to use that sheep to do a vodor. They're not going to thank for the prophet. So the says, "Why do I care what the problem is? It's a problem. Either way, it's a problem." So he goes, "No, there is a day. What if he already had another little sheep and you sold him a second sheep or a third sheep? If you say the problem is that he's going to thank his deity for the profit, okay? So he buys a 100 or 200, 300, he's making profit. He'll thank them. But if you're concerned about actually um facilitating their if you had one without you it's not your responsibility. It sounds like this is a great opportunity to say this mitzvah does not apply unless you are the supplier. You are the one. If there's another way they could get that ara without you then you're not on the hook. I'm not making them do it. They can get someone else and do it that way. says the gar. And if he has one, so what? Really? That gets you off the hook if he has another one. The don't we see in a bryer? Quite a famous line. You're not allowed to a person can't hold out a cup of wine to a naz to a person who's not allowed to drink wine or a a limp from a live animal to a to a nonju. you're responsible. You can't give them one. The terrorist says now says, "Surely in the case of the or the non-Jew, if you don't give it to them, they can just get it somewhere else. But nevertheless, it seems that you are responsible even if they can't if they could get it somewhere else. Surely he can get another glass of wine. You're the only wine glass of wine in the whole town. He can't get another glass of wine." So the garra says correct. What is the case of the gammor? That's one of the most important phrases in this whole discussion. Trey ibri. You're standing on two sides of the river. Yes, this is a case where the nazir or the non-Jew is standing on one side of the river stranded and you're saying to them, have a glass of wine here. Take this glass of wine. If not for your glass of wine, they would not have a glass of wine. So indeed the Gomorrah here is saying you are off the hook if they could get it somewhere else but just this case which is a far fairly sort of extreme okintima you've kind of pushed the case of the Gomorrah into a case where they can only get the wine from you and the Gmorra wants to bring a little bit of a proof and says at the end you can also make it you can see from the wording it says don't hand out is a a letter it doesn't say don't give because you're holding it over the river and therefore the non-Jew can only get it from you or the Nazi can only get it from you. So this principle seems to be enshrined that you're not on the hook for other people's problems if they could get that problem without you. So let's say we'll see how this applies in let's say I'm sitting at a checkout. I'm working checkout number six in the supermarket and this nonobserving Jew comes and brings tra meat through my checkout. I don't have to say to them, I'm sorry madam, I'm Jewish. I can't be responsible for you to buy no non-cos meat because if I don't do that, if I don't put it through, she'll just go to the next line and she'll get it there and she'll also tell the manager and I'll lose my job as well, which will, you know, why am I losing my job? It's not I'm not even responsible. She can get it somewhere else. An interesting question is what if she could theoretically get it somewhere else? But it's very unlikely that she would. Meaning, are you off the hook once there's any possibility they could get it? They could get on a train and they could go to the, you know, airport and they could get on a plane and they could go to the other and they could they could they could or but yeah, but they're not going to. So there is a mus in the post as to whether any probability or possibility will get you off the hook that they could go somewhere else or only if it's no if it's reasonable the check out they can just go to the next check out or if my boss tells me to get him a trace sandwich he could just tell another you know cler to get him a trace sandwich if I don't do that. So there is a discussion about that and there's also an interesting discussion is what if he could get get it somewhere else but the other place they could get it is also a Jew who's not allowed to do it because of lifet meaning I could avoid it but then the other person who's doing it he's going to be doing the same problem okay if it's a non-Jew fine they don't have that mitzvah but what if it's another Jew so can I say I'm off the hook because either way there's lifet happening that's an interesting question as well okay so generally speaking The the assumption is that once they could get it somewhere else, it's fine. Have a look in number 12 explains in the zor what's the case of the well if he's therefore he says you are not allowed to give to a what if there's a Jew who has converted to Christianity in those days in time there were Jews who became Christians and you say I can't give them tra food wine ah they'll say I don't care I'm a Christian now I don't keep kosher apu Okay. Shalah, even if it belongs to them, the non the Jewish Mumar who's now a Christian says, "Just pass me my uh glass of wine, would you? You can't do that." Apparently, because you know full well, they're going to eat it and they're not allowed to to eat it. We're going to get back to this because they may think they're a Christian, but I know better. You know, once you're a Jew, you're a Jew. Even if you're the pope, you're still Jewish. I still have to treat you like a Jew. You can't exit. It's like families, you know. You can join a family, it's very hard to leave. Okay? You can join Judaism, it's very hard to leave, says the Gmorra says to say, "So, how how would I be allowed to do that?" Says, "No, it's fine because we're only concerned if he can't get it without you." Okay. Because we conclude betray. So in that in the case of the the Christian he says who asked you to pass him his wine. You could pass him his wine. Why? Not because you're not responsible but because he could he could reach out and get the wine himself. He could get someone else to pass in the wine. Once they could get it somewhere else, you're off the hook. That's what it sounds like. If they get somewhere else, you're off the hook. the com the con uh complex and perhaps uh problematic not problematic but it makes it more complex as a situation is the tophus in Shabas number 13 and this is going to get us into the rest of the shammor in Shabas talking about so you remember the first mission in Shabas it's talking about all sorts of different ways that you might take something from a public domain into a private domain or a private domain into a public domain and the Gammorra gives four cases there's there's a guy standing outside like this and there's a guy standing inside like this so if I reach in, okay, and pull it out, then I'm breaking Shabas on a full level. Or if he does the same same, too. What if I pick it up and he puts it down? Or if I he picks it up and I put it down. So that's a draon. That's a draon. But what if, says the Gammorra, I'm just standing there with my hand like this with something on my hand. And the guy reaches in, picks it up, takes it out, and I just stand there with my hand like this. I don't do anything. Says the Gomorrah, that is not only exempt, but that is mutar. That is permitted. What did I do? I just stood there with my hand. He broke shabas or she broke shabas. I didn't do anything. I just stood there. So has a problem with that. Number 13. This case he says that says is not only exempted but you're also is also permitted. You didn't do anything wrong. You just stood there with something in your head. And if you want to ask what happened to you're standing there the guy's taking this that you didn't you have to stop him didn't you have to say to him no you can't do that it's shabasi and if you want to tell me if you're going to tell me no but it's like he could have done it without me he didn't need me to be standing there was another cup of wine or another cup of something next door he could have just taken he could have broken shabas without me the lawyer and therefore I'm off the hook. He could have got it without me. And then he explains the case of the wine and the narrow we say the case of the is two sides of the river. Once you can get it without me, I'm off the hook. Nevertheless, says this is still a problem. Even if you're off the hook on a Torah level, you still have a rabbitic issue because even if they could get it somewhere else, you have an added level of responsibility. You have to try and stop them doing the a. Now, where's that from? Maybe from meaning, don't you, you're standing there with your hand like this while somebody breaks shabas in front of your very eyes. Don't you have to say something? Don't you have to say, "No, stop. Stop it. Shabas don't do that. >> Why do you think people >> You can never ask that question on a case in the Gomorrah. The Gomorrah is always interested in taking extreme cases. Yeah. Let me give you a an example. Um let's say the Gomorrah wants to discuss the laws of murder. Yeah. So if you know, God forbid somebody takes a gun, walks in a room and shoots uh people, is that murder? No. The garra is never going to deal with that case. It's not because it's not interesting. Obviously, it's murder. The Gammorra is going to ask a case which he does like a person jumps off a roof and they're flying down to certain death and as they pass the second floor somebody shoots them and and seconds from death they kill them. Yeah, that's a that's a much more interesting case because it defines the param. Did that ever happen? Could that ever happen? Probably not. But that's not the point. The point is it uses the Gmor talks about a case where there's a guy a roofer fitting stuff on a roof. He slips off the roof, falls on top of a woman, and they end up having sexual relations with each other. I don't know about you, but I never I never saw that happen anywhere. I never I never read about it. >> Okay. So, I mean, but the the case the case the case is a a fact. So, you can never ask what are they doing standing with the wine. Okay, fine. Because it's defined it's defining the case. So, what is this extra don? What is this extra don on? Is it kicks in? Is it likeon like another layer? And how does it fit with the other tophus? And what we've said, we just said if you No, if they could get it somewhere else, you're off the hook here. Apparently, you're not off the hook. You have to think, well, even if they can get it somewhere else, maybe I'm still there's another level, an extra level that I have to somehow stop them from doing the so this is going to be the discussion that we're going to have for the rest of the Shir, which is going to be, I think, very interesting. Look how the shukan rules it. the in number 14 in in the laws of Zor seems to put a very high bar on people. He doesn't mention these two sides of the river. He just says number 14 um items which are specific that they used by idoltors to do the idolatry in that place. Obviously you need to know that it's really an idolatrous thing. You are not allowed as a Jew to sell them. You can't be selling that to the other Shabb straightforward. You can't do it. You're responsible to them. Just like you can't sell guns to murderers. You can't sell a vodora to people who do a vodora. And of course you need to know you have to know hilas a vodor. Um it's well known for example that uh a cross that Ramar brings down a cross a straightforward cross even maybe even a crucifix with a figure on it. That's not a voter. They don't serve that. They use it as a way to connect with, you know, their idea of God. So a Jew can sell a cross. In fact, there's a tradition that all of the guys selling the cross is outside the Vatican. You know, they're all Jewish families, right? You know, business is business. So, but you have to know what really is a vodor, what's not a vodor, and what do they really? And also, it's always interesting who do you ask? If you ask the simple person in the street, what do you think this is? Then they'll give you a simple answer. Is that the is that does that mean it is a vodor? If you ask a simple Jew, why do I put a muza on the door? They'll say it protects the house. Okay, that sounds like a verd to me. You know, the muza protects the house or it's like magic. It's like an amulet. You dab into the muza. No, if you ask the theologian, they'll say, "No, of course not. Muza doesn't protect the house. The muza is a mitzvah. The mitzvah connects the person to God, the the connection to God. That's what gives you the hashkah and protects that." Okay, fine. Certainly if you asked the Rambo. Um, so so too if I'm going to ask uh Hindu what is this thing on the shelf what do you do what does that do they might say look I dab to that and it gives me paranas but then you would ask a theologian they say no no that's not that's not what happens it's much more complicated so who do I ask but you need to know who to ask and once you know it's a ver you're not allowed to do it says 14 second life another opinion when it says you're on the hook and you can't sell them their voters. That's only if they don't have another one or they can't get one somewhere else. But if they can get it anywhere else, you're off the hook. Like we said, two sides of the river only a problem if they can only get it from you. But if they can get it from anywhere else, seems to be fine. Viet what's that >> make >> maybe although making an avodar is itself a prohibition that's a separate thing depending on what it is that even if you don't sell it to the even if never use it for a vodor there's a separate is it the right as far as I'm aware to make something which is an idolist thing but I don't know the laws of a vodor so you'd have to ask someone who does but then he brings down well shabas there's an idea that you have to there's an extra level even if they could get it somewhere else. But we're not we're do sell the stuff if they can get it somewhere else. But if you want to be from you can be okay back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. By the way, this issue of being a bal nephesh, you're spiritual. You're concerned about your soul. So now in today's world, everyone thinks they're a bal nephesh. You know, oh, I have to be m it says everyone is a b neffesh. I don't know about you, but my teachers, some of my teachers back in the day used to say like I'm arrogant enough to think that I'm a bal nephesh when he says a bal nephesh should be like what apah that I'm a nephesh. So it's a different kind of attitude. Fine. So then the comes in and says look I don't understand how are we going to put this together? What's really going on? Do we have this extra level or not? So the says you've always got this to worry about. I feel even if they could get it somewhere else and this is the opinion that's why he's back and forth should you be or not he says actually in my humble opinion the no there's no conflict here these two are talking about different things everybody agrees they agree to this first to we saw He wants to make shalom like this. He says, "If we're dealing with a non-Jew or an apostate Jew, I have the basic obligation of I can't be the source, but if they can get it someone else, that's the end. I don't have to go extra for them." Okay. But he says the other in Shabas, okay, says my Israel, he's talking about a Jew, a regular Jew who wants to keep mitzvah. So therefore the distinction is between on the one hand a non-Jew or an apostate where we say you just can't be the main supplier but if they can get it somewhere else not your problem and a an observant Jew where you have to go so now we're going to have to ask on on the basis of the shak so I don't know how many apostates you know I don't know many apostate Jews okay I know an awful lot of Jews who don't keep Shabas who don't eat kosher are we going to which side of list are they on? Are you going to say, "Well, they don't keep kosher. They're like a mum." Like, no, we don't say that anymore. We say these people don't keep kosher because they never learned anything about keeping kosher. So, maybe I'm on the hook just because they say, "Oh, it's fine. Uh, you know, I know what I'm doing and I don't keep kosher and I don't care. Just put it through the till. Maybe I can't. Maybe because I have to say, "No, I'm sorry. I can't do that because you really are uh you should be keeping kosher. Do I have to say that?" The deel Morva gives a slightly different case which is very interesting. He say he understands it in a different way. Look at number 16. He says I don't get it. An apostate Jewish. What's the difference if you're an apostate Jew? You're not an apostate Jew. If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. What's the difference between them and another Jew? Why do I suddenly not have to bother just because he's an apostate Jew? that. No, I think it's a different distinction. We only we only have this extra level to separate them. If they didn't realize, then I have to jump in and say, "Did you know this was not kosher?" But you can stop them like a cotton cotton like a kid. You have to stop a kid also. But he says, "But if the next line is the right, but then but if a Jude turns around and says, I know, I don't care. I'm doing even if they're not an apostate." So again, what's he saying is he's saying, "No, there isn't." Again, what are we asking? When am I off the hook if they can get it somewhere else? And when how do I have to do more? When you have to do more is when they're showgate. But if they know what they're doing and they're mazed, you just have to make sure you're not the only supplier. Fine. But now let's go back to the case of a non-observant Jew today. Are they mazed or are they not mated? They say, "Oh, I don't keep kosher. It's fine." But is that called amazed? Now, according to the which we didn't really see yet, but we will. You're only really amazed. You're only really doing it on purpose if you got real to. And since nobody knows how to do to anymore, nobody's amazed and therefore everybody's a showgake. It's very interesting. I mean, someone must be doing something on purpose somewhere. Okay. But what is the bar for on purpose? Did you know that on in Shabas that the Rambam brings that if you break Shabas and someone says you know this is prohibited on Shabas? Yes. You know that it's awesome in a Torah. Yes. And you said I don't okay I'm going to do it anyway. And they break Shabas. They're still not ashed until they know that it's actually chores. If they didn't know it was correspond that you're going to be responsible for a large number of people even if they say they're doing it on purpose. On the other hand, it becomes a bit condescending. Oh, I know. I don't care. I keep kosher. I don't keep kosher. Yeah, but you don't really know. Yeah, really. If you really knew, you'd re you're like, what are you going to do again? means you have to lose your job rather than putting it through. Do you have to say I'm not going to do it? Even if you say it only applies to a show gig, maybe that raises that question. And I'll give you another angle which is actually fascinating. Look on the top of page five. So this is a completely different case. The case here is a woman who is a barber. I don't know if there's a female equivalent of a barber. Maybe a barber. Okay. Um and and and she and she shaves people's heads. Okay. Now, a man is not allowed to have the corners of his head cut short. Too short. Even without a razor, even with scissors, if it's too short, but a woman is allowed to do that. If you want, you know, if you're a woman and you want to shave off all the sides of your hair, even with a razor, you know, that's not a problem. So, says the number 17 is not talking about. If you're a woman and you want to do, that's a different share. Okay, fine. A woman is not in the mitzvah of shaving off the corner of their head. Theim and the brings and says there is an opinion. She's allowed to shave off her own head. She's not allowed to shave off a man's head. Au cotton even if he is a child. So she can shave off her own hair, but she cannot shave off a man's. Why not? in he's sitting there in a chair and she is assisting him right here and right now in doing a Torah prohibition. He is not allowed to have his hair shaved off and she's she's helping him shave it off >> about the pale >> the corner of the hair. Yeah. Pay us. Yeah. All this you're not allowed to cut it short. How by the way how short is too short is very interesting. So in the barbers in Israel and England I don't know if you male barbers are very unsophisticated usually. I mean you can have your hair done for any number of dollars I'm sure but they usually go by numbers. number two, number three, number four. Like, and everyone, so I have a barber in Israel. Uh, so I said to him, I'd like number two, please. You know, so he does it and I said, "That's number two." And he goes, "No, that's number one and a half." So, so I said, "Well, why did you cut number one and a half when I asked you to cut number two?" He goes, "No, I as the Shiloh, one and a half is fine." And he even tells me who he asks. He asks Rabb Leor and he says like, "You don't need to worry." I said, "Yeah, but it's my hair." I asked for number two. "Nah." He said, "I asked the shila for you. It's really fine." So, she can't shave off the guy's hair says number 18. Maybe you could argue he says in this case, now let's let's analyze it. If you didn't shave off the hair, could he go to another barber? Yes, of course he could. He could shave it off himself. So, your it's definitely They could get it somewhere else. What about this extra level? Yeah, you have this extra level with with with regular Jews, maybe with most Jews. Why don't you have this extra level here? Because on the contrary, when she shaves off his hair, which he could have done himself, she's actually helping him. Why doesn't she have to say, "Oh, I'm sorry. You know, you're not allowed to have your haircut short. I'm I'm not going to do it for you." No, if she does it, that's actually helping him. How? Because if she didn't shave his hair, he'd shave off his own hair. And then and then he'd be doing two terabitions of being the and the because she's helping him the love. If he did it on his own, he'd be doing two Torah prohibitions. Shaving your own head and having your head shaved. She's now shaving off his head. She's saving him. She's breaking one prohibition and saving him from well, she's not breaking anything because she's not obligated, but she's saving him from extra prohibition. So, she can argue, you know something? Yes, you're right. He's coming and doing something that seems to be prohibited, but think of what he's gaining. I'm helping him. This is going to be a very interesting question. Someone's coming to your house for Shabas, and they're going to drive now. Are they going to drive anyway on Shabas? They're going to drive anyway on Shabas, but now they're going to drive to you. But you say, "Yeah, but if they come to my house for Shabas, maybe they'll have an amazing time. Maybe they'll have an inspirational weekend. Maybe they'll think to themselves they need to go learn Torah. Is is is that an argument that you could say actually I'm not harming them. I'm actually helping them by getting Now maybe it depends on how inspirational your Shabba's table is. I don't know. But but but that's going to be an argument based on this Rabika. Can I argue that I'm actually helping someone more than I'm hurting them? Because if it's net gain, maybe you're good to go. >> What is the purpose? Because the cases here, if it was a male barber, he for sure is not allowed to do it because he himself is prohibited from shaving the corner of any male's head. But she's not in the mitzvah. She's she's she's from the mitzvah. So she's the only way that she's connected with this mitzvah is if ever. If he was a man, he's he's mashing in the mitzvah himself because he can't do it anyway. Yeah. >> Very insulted, highly insulted. You don't invite it to your shop. >> Right. Right. This cousin you invite, but this cousin you don't invite. Now, it's an interesting question. I mean Rav Schlomma Alman used to say you know if you offer them somewhere to stay but then they say it's fine we don't need anywhere to stay maybe that's enough question is whether you even need to do that Mosha Feinstein you should know we'll see next week was much more much stricter on this he said that inviting someone to drive to you on Shabas is not just lifet about it and wouldn't allow it at all so you have three levels never allowed. Allowed if you offer people to stay and maybe allowed even if you don't and they're going to come anyway. Let me just end with uh something which was is going to open up uh another box on this which I think we have time for but uh I want you to see that. Look at number 19. Number 19 is is dealing with a case of somebody loyal whose child was kidnapped on Shabas by missionaries and their child is being taken away and they need to get the kid back. If they wait till m Shabas, it's too late. They're already on a wagon. They're gone. But the only way they can get them back is by breaking Shabas. The problem is there's no nephesh in in a in a technical sense because nephesh is saving your physical life. And this child is not endangered physically. On the contrary, if this child grows up as a Christian, they'll probably be safer, wealthier, and uh and less prone to disease. But that's not the point. They're in terrible danger spiritually. But there's no danger of pikuak nama. There's there's no sorry there's no mitzvah of it's neesh doesn't mean the the spiritual side. So look look at what he says here number 19 someone who gets a message on Shabas they took away his daughter from the home on Shabas and they're going to take her away from Israel what should he do he is a mitzvah he has to get on the road he has to do everything he can to save her even if he goes beyond the even if he has to break shabas he has to break shabas. He must. Why? How can he break Shabas? What's the And he says if he doesn't want to break Shabas we make him break Shabas what's the it's not so what's the so the Mishna explains number 20 they took away his daughter what's the or therefore he says it must be the reason they allow him to save her is why now he opens up a whole new thing which is going to be fascinating. That if the other person is not in any way negligent, which clearly this little girl wasn't, she'd been kidnapped. You are obligated to do a lesser a so that your friend won't do a bigger amp. But if they were negligent, they got themselves into it then the father can't do it and obviously she's non- negligent. What's what's going on here? Now when we looked at a and said that the woman can shave the guy's hair because she's saving him. He's arguing that it's not lift at all. You don't even need to get into. But what if I say, you know something, this is Lifa. I can't get out of it. I'm the only way they can get it. There's no way I can fetch out of it. I'm saving them. I'm helping them. I'm definitely doing lifa definitely. Is it ever justified to say but you know something it's worth it. It's worth it because my breach of lif although it's a breach is going to help them to do an even bigger mitzvah. I can do something which is a little bit naughty in order to do help them do something big and therefore that becomes mut like this case. Now what's this case learned from? The case is actually raised first in Shabas situation in Shabas and Shabas asked the following. If somebody goes to an oven like a taboon oven where they cook pizza bread and they put the pizza on the oven on shabas the dough put the dough on the oven in 10 minutes the dough less whatever the dough is going to cook they're going to do bisha am I allowed to come down to the oven and peel it off now peeling off the bread is a dabon not a dissa so am I allowed to do a dabon to save my friend from doing a dice if I don't touch it in five minutes he's breaking shabas But if I peel it off and do a daon, I'm saving him from breaking shabas. Now there the Gmorrah says you can't help him because he should have known better. He should have known you. You're not there to save people who are negligent. He knows that bread's you know you can't bake bread and he should have. But if the case is genuinely somebody really doesn't know, really couldn't know. They're not negligent. Then maybe yes, you are actually allowed to do something which is not allowed on some level in order to help someone do something bigger. And this is a like how far does this go? Does this open Pandora's box like saying there well you know everything I do is I can so open Pandora's oven what I mean the question is often asked uh how can a rabbi give a shir or anyone give a shir a tora in front of a kir group where the women are not dressed but sne now you turn around and say well it's a mitzvah yeah but there's a prohibition there's a there's a rabbitic prohibition of saying dra Torah in front of people who are not appropriately dressed it's even if the guy's got his eyes closed knows if the guy is god forbid blind, it doesn't matter. There's an objective prohibition of covered hatra. You're not allowed to say words of Torah in front of people who are not dressed properly. The hetera the heta for this is these women are not consciously doing something wrong. Then maybe you even ask them please could you wear something more modest for the share and they did and they did. They went and put something on. It's not hakically permitted to what they're wearing but but they don't know they're not in that para. So maybe you're allowed to say, you know something, you're right. It's takon to say Torah in front of people who are not dressed properly. But think about the consequences and the context and what am I doing and I'm connecting. Now again, that's a fairly dangerous game. I mean, you know, how you going to but that comes up here as well. So we're going to plug all of that. You have to remember the whole share, I'm afraid for next week or take it back with you and do some kazar. Um and next week we'll pick it up and and look at some practical cases.