Lag BaOmer - The Fire and the Soul {Seforim Chatter}

[Music] Welcome to another episode of the Swarm Chatter podcast. I'm Naki Weinstein. Just a little note about this episode because it's about Lagimer. Lagimer is Mas Shabas this year. This podcast is being released a little early as opposed to the regular Sunday release. There may be another episode, an extra one later this week. Stay tuned. To support the podcast or to sponsor an episode on the podcast, please email me farm chattergmail.com or see the links and information in the show's notes below. Uh, additionally, uh, please subscribe to the Farm Chatter Substack uh, YouTube as well as the Farm Chatter WhatsApp chat where I post new Sarin books and and other sorts of information. You can find links to that in the show's notes. And please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you have any guest uh suggestions or ideas, you can always pass them along. I have a numbers a number of ones that I'm working on, but always happy to hear about more. So you can email me or any comments, any feedback, you can uh email me farm chatgmail.com or respond to me. If you're on the WhatsApp chat, you can message me via WhatsApp. And also now there's a uh the first thing in the show's notes will be a comment. You can send it like via text message. You can reply and you can comment on the podcast and comment that way. and uh enjoy the podcast episode. Hi everyone, welcome to another edition of the farm chatter podcast. On this episode of the podcast, I'm going to be joined by Denil Gladstein who is the RV of Kilas Morai in Cedarhurst as well as the Makab, the authors from Mag Herakia. There's a number of volumes and also he has translated those and written books in English as well. And this episode of the podcast we'll be discussing Logimer. Rabbi Gladstein has just published a brand new book titled the fire and the soul the mystical power of the kadesh published through art school. So thank you Rabbi Gladstein for joining me. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me. So let's sort of tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and your background. Okay. Um I'm currently uh a RV in Cedarst New York. I have a kahila um and I I give uh shirim um to the ben kahila to the community there many of them are on a number of platforms they're online they're uh audio video on uh a lot of the various platforms that are available today I learned in yeshiva uh for many years uh I have from there I have many influences many Um and well you want to hear about my yeshiva background or whatever you want to tell the listeners is good. Okay. So I uh as I mentioned I uh during that time simultaneously I uh became close with a number of great uh rabbitic personalities to personalities. First Arava Victor Miller I used to go to him for a number of years for about three years last three years of his life. Um I went to Hishirim I spoke with him uh after that for many years I developed a very close uh association with Ravnik Isaac Obam in Kugar Hills who's a great pisk and magir and uh also uh someone who's uh very knowledgeable in history uh he uh aside from all of his satra he visited many of the uh ancient communities in Europe where where he uh researches the various personalities. Um and then terms of my background, my grandfather is a Holocaust survivor. He was from Poland. He was a Talmed of Rabba from pre-war Europe. He had from David Kahana. All he he was very close with all the GD in Poland. Uh his family comes from Gasidam. father was the secretary of the GBA. So that's also a very important part of uh my background. My father is uh an attorney and uh also lectured for a kiraim on uh throughout the country and all the college campuses across the country. Uh he was a very eminent is a very eminent speaker. So this is uh this perhaps gives a a little bit of a picture of my background. Okay. So let's let's get into a little bit Lagbo. Uh let's just let's just jump right into Lagbo and um that there's obviously more to ask about yourself and your different spar. Maybe at the end if we have time or if not perhaps a different time talk about your far magia which you published in Hebrew and you have um English farm you also I know you go you tours and things like that in Europe. So we'll we'll we can leave that we can discuss that perhaps later. So let's talk about laga. Um actually think this is the first episode of Don Lagua on the podcast. I'm sure many listeners are familiar with a lot of different things about lagrimemer but being that you just wrote a whole book on lagr. Let's just start off with the day of the fact that it's quasi yamtiff essentially now for us right okay so you know I know you have a a very wide gamut of guess so let's try to approach it instead of a purely historical point of view but let's try to uh approach it from uh Torah based point of view and we'll take it that angle um you look through the pages of shasim does not appear you look through kaz saf it does not appear anywhere in the entire corpus of the tarab which is the beginning of the mystery. So like how could a day which has become from the most festive and joyous days on the Jewish calendar and it has really no source in the entire gamut of the even in the rishum you have very uh limited references to because the gar says the students died between pes and there's no reference that they stopped dying on any particular day the brings there's a tradition from that they stop dying on But the part of the mystery is it's not mentioned anywhere. I mean even in the Zadesh it's it's not really it's not discussed. It's just plain and simple. It's not discussed as a festive day. Um of course most are familiar. It's that it's attributed that it's the the yard side of so you would expect if it's his yard site you know it should be recorded somewhere. As we mentioned it's not recorded in the Garra. It's not recorded in the maybe there's a reference that it's called is his day of celebration which is a very obscure reference. What exactly does it mean? It's his celebration and of course you're familiar the although in uh and I believe he says that it's uh it's attributed to the day of his yard site but in the he says that there is no definitive source that is the yard site of and uh there's a lot of discussion of what in fact was the opinion regarding whether was the yard site of the Rajby. What's interesting is you know if you want to discuss what the position is on being the art of but you know there there's a very important there's a aim where sort of accepts what the world says that it's the yard of but he goes on the offensive he says you know like since when is a yard side a uh happy occasion. You know, if you look in there's a simmon that records the yard sites of many sadikimhanovi ah Yeshua Benoon and every single uh yardite is a day of fasting. You know, it's interesting. You know, there's a there's an this very important custom that we have to give a tick on on on a yardite. And you know, they say Rabakov Kamki said, "Where did this develop from?" Because says that a yard said is a fast day. So you know back in the day people fasted you know every Monday and Thursday but then you read so they would make a and you make a so you give a little tick but then with further ura so they skip the fast they skip the sem but the the schnaps is what remained but fundamentally a yardite is a fast day. So some surface why all of a sudden the rashi well he was greater than zad is a fast day and yard site is a the most festive day of the year and theam service says plain and simple no miracle happened on period he says the only thing the place say about is you don't fast and you don't eulogize and says I have no idea he says I do not know why we don't fast and eulogize you know So like if didn't know then how's anybody supposed to know? Yeah. So and and we'll discuss more on the I know you have more to say besides the aspects the aspect you have and this something you discuss in the book I want to just mention the there's a very important and so in the talking about and the he says in whatever you call it he says of the son. He says like you said this is like his celebration with all this he goes he continues on now we said from which is that's like his for like sed like what you should do every day throughout the year and sayiml So he says he says we know used to celebrate this actually Now the thing is so this seems to what does mean and what does what's going on here exactly is it his yard site it is not is it not his yard site um so the later on and this is one of the big sources for saying that it's what we have today many people know that it's his yard site the thing is that the himself says in um in later on he says that I think it's in one of the last form that he wrote he's he'ser from this and he says It's not it was that's a was known for as far manuscripts. It's a mistake. It's a printing error and it's which goes consistent with it's not actually the day of his death. And this is this is there's an extensive discussion this there was two editions. There's an older commentary and there's a newer one printed called Amu. It was written by and published by Shalom. And he goes well on a tangent here about meron about going to Bash going to Meron. And he kind of actually decries that but in in Isaiah he first discusses this about and he quote what happened was or not on is it his yard or not and he brings the and he brings from there's another of the at the end it's one of the last forms of many and he says that even though that's the It says he says he goes with that gave and that's where it comes. So that's not the day that died. He says he quotes this extensively elsewhere and you know extends goes on it continues on and you know he talks about um etc. And then once he's at it, we can leave this. He says many people make a mistake. And he ends up going and you can get into this where would go to and therefore people today do and you know on and on and so forth. But that that's really the background at least for a lot of where the site comes from. And himself later on his latest forum says no that was a mistake. It's not really amaz um in terms of the where the says that the uh the of the are cor are mostly corrupt and they cannot be relied upon. So there are different ways of understanding the those who wish to so to speak um accept the the prevalent custom of going to meron they say the didn't mean that it's not his yard said he's just saying that those words of the in independently are not conclusive that it is but not that himself didn't believe that it is that's that's how uh it's there's there's a contress that came out on and that's how that particular author uh presented the opinion of the you know it is important to note even though there is a question regarding the uh veracity of whether this is a source or not raisit and both right definitively that it is in fact the art side of so certainly it's uh it's something that's although on on a on on closer examination it's hard to pinpoint what the source Yeah. Okay. So, perfect. So and I think you mentioned the rabbaka and um and then you know we get into himself you know offers a possibility well you know even if not but we know that after the students of all passed away because real here's a foundational point in and that I discussed in the book is the question of the preadash and also deals with it and that is it seems pretty odd that we're celebrating that the 24,000s of ka stopped dying That would be reasonable if let's say there were like uh 15,000 left or even a thousand left. But if the reason they all they stop dying is because they're all dead, that doesn't sound like a very reasonable reason to celebrate. Yeah, the reason they stopped dying is because they're all gone. So questions it can't be because the students of Rika stopped dying. So the himself as you mentioned suggests well maybe it's the day that Rabi ka went to Rabi Shabadar and he began to restart the uh tradition. Um there's an amazing point mentioned by the Rami Pano in Mayan Ghanim. I believe it's in Kiml and I'm not sure why this is not so well known. The Mayan Ganim says that there were survivors from Rabika students. You know who they were? There was actually one who raka because the decree was on him as well and he survived and that was a big uh that was a pretty eminent. In other words, the celebration is that the gazerro was nisbat for who? For Rabika himself. So that's an interesting possibility. So then it would come out. It's not really the the day of the sim of the rashi. It would be the day of the simka of rabika himself. You know that's the approach of uh the rami pano. But be that as it may today it really is the s of the rashi. I think in Merrone although this year I think uh because the situation as well they're not having anyone really there but everyone you know in general in in recent years and obviously there was the tragedy a number of years ago in Meon but in general this Miron has been where you know everyone really goes to and as I mentioned Hel anyone wants to read it you can read inside what he you know um kind of even though he he kind of tries to play it both ways he decries it and he rails against it but even though he says of course he's not saying that you shouldn't etc. You can see it there in his in his safer. But let's talk about that went to I started mentioning he mentioned there is this thing the go and there's this there were um that went and and we can get into bonfires etc. historically you know I don't think Rabik Ager didn't go to Meron and the Marsha didn't go and um like I was you know I don't think uh you know the rashias in Europe didn't go but we have a record from Heler that the tradition is went to meron in great I mean the description of when he got to the foot of the mountain he got down on all four and he literally crawled up the mountain. And that's the report of the tradition that Rheler reports and Heler was R and in the 19th century right Heler was the RV of the uh of the pushim of the uh so you had the the basin was uh together with Rheler actuallyheler was very knowledgeable in in other disciplines as well. He he actually studied medicine and when he met the basin said you know he feels that his learning of Rafua is is clouding is is befuddling his kaduca you know he thinks he has to stop practicing medicine legend has it the basian put his hands on her's head and he cured him from any uh adverse effects anyway yeah was was uh recores went to meron the beneskai made an amazing pilgrimage. You made the trek to me. I mean that's uh fraught with great danger and he even composed the were very cabalistic which uh David said the words and the benes actually you know the benes wrote an entire forb it's called you know basically collection of different and rashi so for you know to think about how much time it took the beneskai to make that trek and to get to Meron, you know, it's pretty remarkable that someone of his caliber uh made that trip. And then uh I mentioned um my background, but but you know, if I can mention a little bit more just in this context, my grandmother, my father's mother's father, his name was Vulman, was the last RV of the city of Sakchav. He was killed in the Warso ghetto. He was a palmid of the aritsvi the kj and I believe in 1929 thei went up to uh meron and uh he even records in a sha kosh that occurred to him at meron in 1929 if I could share you know it's actually very interesting he says that in the it says so the over there says that naftali has a very bountiful and fruitful land and naftali will praise and bear hashem for his fruits. So the aris at meron he was bothered. What do you mean he's going to make a braha? The the is saying he's going to make a braha are how could the how could the interpret the napto is going to make a bra are only rabbitic in nature. So the says actually there is one opinion that are who is that um and is in the so when the tarum says that is going to make a on fruits it's because in the of and are in fact so that was a three records I mean here you're talking about his oflen after Mayor Shapiro and he made the trip to Meon you know in the early 20th century and he's recording that occurred to him uh that occurred to him there. Yeah. So that's uh another personality who visited meron and you know if you've ever seen there's a safer on a wondrous safer it's called kadai shaman it's written by freedman pinas he has an entire safer and there also he brings uh kadushim that occurred to him standing between the kev the rashi and uh rabbi lazak and yeah we'll get more to your safer obviously your safer is a lot you have a lot of maka as you already alluded to some of it here and we're going to talk some more about it I just want to mention historically There's one other thing that I want to clarify this misconception about the Bartonura Ravaji Baronura um who I hope to do a podcast episode one day about these letters fascinating letters he he traveled from where he was in Italy he went to Israel this is in the 15th century so before the whole well you know the generation before that and he goes and so he relays on the way and initial is very very fascinating historically to read one of the things in his second letter he's sending these letters back to Italy to his father he says He says the camera of and and I'm saying this because it's quoted by a lot as it's somehow it got attributed to but he says about and he says it's in the Jewish hands so coming up that many people go torches or bonfires this gets into the bonfire thing and like where we can get Not only the Arabs are worried many things over there. This is very that's a side point. He gets he's very busy complaining about what was going on at the time. Anyways, he continues. It says however I didn't see any miracles anything that changed besides for that many say many women that were barren they they now had children many sick people got healed they made a promise at the place in there and he ends there's no proof to any of this so uh was Italian it sounds like a lit but he was It's interesting that that um and it's not like the Binanura didn't believe in any miracles because in in other letters he writes that he was in Kyifa and he was in the cave of Elon Nova he writes wondrous miraculous things that he witnessed there. So it's not like you know he was skeptical anything. So if he's telling you nothing happened there nothing happened there. He's yeah he's just saying he didn't see anything and he you know there's no now the thing about it is so that letter obviously a very important historical letter for the to give us a glimpse of what was going on at the time period the thing is it's attributed that this story happened with Rashi but in the this is the edition that I'm reading is the critical edition published edited by David this is done many manuscripts of these letters there are other editions and some of them they suggest a change to say it's and it's supposed to be rashi but it doesn't seem like that's not what the manuscripts say. It doesn't seem like what he's referring to at all. So just uh just but there are some sources that say that but let me ask you is there more to talk about like regarding bonfires now especially in like there's a big bonfire in it. Yeah, look absolutely you know the the I think what's most striking is the development of this custom that I mean until this year last year there were a half a million Jews going to meron which is if probably the most well attended Jewish practice today on our calendar I don't think you could think of any occasion um in Jewish observance that attracts more attendees um I so the question is you know how do we explain this phenomenon why has this phenomenon you know drawn so much attention in recent years um more than any other phenomenon I know you know there's a big but you don't have a half a million I don't think you have a half a million Jews attending that so that's basically uh one of the main premises of the which is uh something a very interesting idea and a general phenomenon that that I think you could observe in in yeshivas around the world today you know even there's certain mystical ideas uh metaphysical ideas call it makshava call it mysticism that are more available to the regular yeshiva bakar today that a regular tal and yeshiva is more fluent in today than really any other time in history you know I think what used to be reserved for the elite or for the select few has become you know sort of today. you know the you know back in the day 25 years ago the that would learn aside from you know today for instance the former is of and ramals and really very highlevel mystical information and this has become sort of what 30 years ago was only a few people knew about the the call it coalistic ideas are sort of much more out in the open um familiarity with the meaning of the spheroist and so forth and I think that's also worthy of our attention in other words is that somehow connected to this recent phenomenon of the attraction to meron you know this is a question also that um rail wrote a saga called uh uh hagal I have it behind uh which is an amazing safer and he's very troubled he he picks up on this and he's very troubled uh you know the there's a a famous comment of the Z I think it's worthwhile to mention here and to try to understand what it means the Z writes in the end of he says it's like it's a historical prediction that says that The day will come where the Jewish people will taste from the Zadesh and then they will be redeemed. In other words, the Z is saying that a prerequisite for the coming of the Gulah is learning from the Z. Okay, that's the statement of of the Z itself. And Rabak is very bothered by this. Really the prerequisite for uh Msiah coming is people learning the Z. But aren't there all kinds of prerequisites needed to learn the Z? Don't you have to be malados? Then you have to be malle shaskim and you have to have kadusha you have to have tahara and uh vital himself rails against people prematurely learning the kabala. Uh the the ramach says something very important. And Raak says that unless someone is um grounded in the Tammudic ancestic analysis, they have no right to learn the cabala because if you don't know how to think, you can't approach not the gumar and not the cabala. So soak sort of says well if in order for msiah to come people need to learn kabala and in order to learn kabala you have to be malikim. So basically, you know, we're going to be stuck in America for a very long time because uh nobody could possibly learn the cabala that's necessary for Msiah to come. So, Rabyakov Hil advances a very interesting thesis which I have a different approach to in my safer that even though most people are not going to be learning the cabala today but this is like where holds that when there's a dispute between the and the we're going to follow the for instance if there's a between the and says we're going to follow the out like the said that two things you know the writes that if the would have known what the said he would have retracted that's what the says that if the would have known what the says the would have retracted and furthermore writes the didn't even know one a thousandth of what the said so says accordingly if we're going to always follow the so even though we don't technically learn cabala but our practice ice is rooted in cababala because we're always going to follow the mubalam. So that's how we're going to bring msiah. However, you know, that's you know, one could challenge that and say that it's well known um on these words of the he he said that he doesn't agree with them. Says who says that if the would if if the would have known what the says he would have retracted. It's not true. How do you know that? How do we know that uh the would have retracted? How do we know that the would have uh deferred to the the famously holds that when you have a between the and we will always follow and fork writes very openly that in the is no different than any of the he's not given any more credibility than any of the and says therefore in the the the idea that we follow The mikubalim over the pkim is only applies to the to the z and the z does not apply because they were that's from the tano that says but as opposed to kis are not given any unique status in so therefore sort of it begs the question it begs the question you know try to come up with this approach how we're going to bring the gula because our practice in is rooted in kabala But you know that that's certainly not accepted by uh Raosa, not accepted by Rabba. So there's an idea that even though in our time we're not uh we're not fluent in the Cabala, but if you examine the the language of the Zah says in the end of days people are going to taste from the they're going to taste from the Z. That would usher in the gul. But that shows us something very important that Rab Shiman and his teachings are so to speak the key to unlock and bring us to the finish line. And if we see a Jewish practice of this magnitude where Jews are they don't even know why they're going, you know, they even Jews who are going to barbecue, you could barbecue anywhere. You know, there are a lot of sadikim in Israel that you could be drawn to. There are sadikim everywhere. The fact that there is such a Jewish practice today means that it's rooted in in something meaningful and it seems that that is because of this teaching of the Zar that connecting to and the teachings of Rubim as the Z in fact writes is going to usher in the gula. So this this phenomenon of that we see of recent uh time in recent times is sort of is is very uplifting because it means that uh the the souls of the Jewish people recognize this is the place from which we're going to get what we need to bring in uh the redemption. You know, it it's interesting uh also I speak about in the introduction the concept that in terms of what license we have to learn some of the more esoteric sections of the Torah. It's not a black and white brick wall. In other words, it's not can you or can't you. It very much is relative to the times you live in. And this is really a phenomenal idea we bring from um and also the bales of alash rights explicitly something very amazing. He says what was forbidden yesterday is permitted today which means that the access the license we have to learn certain portions of the Tyra is depending on the generation that we live in. writes that when BD stood so we have it said you know we don't we don't teach we don't teach certain things except for for people who who who reach a certain level of and a certain level of kadusha however he says that was back in the day when people saw miracles in the B mikdash people you know even in in themies of suram pompadisa there were miraculous feats Khazal say that uh fire came down in Hashayim. So their amuna was fortified by the times they lived in and what they were able to experience as opposed to in our times that were really living in the darkness of galas says if not for some exposure to the esoteric portions of Tory then would have would not have had any continuity. And there are many sources to this idea that the allowance and the license to certain sections of Torah. It is very uh likely that what was not available 50 years ago is not only available today but is permissible today. You know, everybody should consult with their own personal uh in terms of what what what is permitted to be accessible and so forth. But there's a sort of a sliding scale. It's not a uh absolute restrictive uh type of of discipline and if the fact that today people are thronging to shim and that these these branches of information are much more available and accessible. So that's so to speak it's reflective that the time is ripe. Now let's go back to a little bit to the this is something you discussed at length in the book and you mentioned this you alluded to this earlier where you said the chuva of the I think the right the chuva where he talks about and what reason can you find for it but the despite that chuva he has a number of reasons he discusses at length and yeah so that's this is a very important dichconomy that you're picking up on so here there's nobody who spoke out against more than cyer Right? Could you think of any that challenged that that more than challenged you know the says count me out of it everybody's going up toamifer blamed the earthquake of 1837 and the destruction of on the phenomenon of Jews flocking to inas and meron so he said that that the phenomenon of going to these places is responsible for disaster and yet there is no one who wrote more about than himself. I mean like off the bat I could tell you you know five different reasons writes you know throughout his you know off the batam created I mean this is amazing says is the celebration of the day that's when the first fell for the Jewish people writes you know and by the way says I know it's against the garra the garra says the man began to fall the day after pes You know, if I may, I'm very into Rome. Romeir, there's also a legend. Talk about days that uh are inconclusive or unverifiable that uh that there's a yard site. But Pesak Sheni is the last day the matzah that took out of lasted and then the next day presumably the mun fell. You know if you learn the Shabas Shabas says the M fell writes in four places that no it fell on based on what based on a medish and nobody has ever found the medish that theam quotes that the mun began to fall three days later. But the fact that reiterates it four times indicates that you know he held it was a it was a thought of notable standing. Okay. So that's one approacher gives. The day the mun fell for the Jewish people says another amazing thing happened on says that the Jewish people left they had the bris the teaches that the nishama comes down at the time of the bris but it's not fully settled until 33 days later so says it comes out that unlike that's the day the soul of the Jewish people was more was fully acclimated and settled in their system. So therefore that's also uh makes it a day of significance. It's the day the collective soul of the Jewish people was it was settled in in their systems. Um also writes that lag is uh fundamentally connected to re revelation of the secrets of the Torah writes many places on the is 33 that on it's a day that secrets of the Tory are revealed to the world and if you accept that is the rashi we know that the zut was either written in completion or at least finalized on you know it's interesting the number 33 says is always affiliated with kadusha for example the says there 32 byways of and following the 32 begin the secrets of the that's probably the most well-known source that that people quote about is the benar where you know you have 32 days connected the 32 pathways of wisdom and then on The 33rd day says is 32 and are the final 17 days. The 33rd word is that reflects the secrets of the Tyra. So isam writes is affiliated is connected associated with the secrets of the Tyra. There's another idea throws out which is also very interesting. He writes in the Dash that you know Pyav tells us there are four crowns. You have to and then so says so if we break into three parts of 16 the first 16 days are do we have to today yes and no say yeah we have a lot of books you know you wouldn't have a podcast if there was no if there weren't books so we definitely have a lot of books there there's a lot of Torah but the khag says we used to have 600 sidishna now we're left with six you know there's an idea the grow writes about many places mala visa inra that basically we pretty much lost the tora there's an idea that we lost a lot of tora with the destruction of the ba mdash so the first 16 days reflect tyra the state of Torah is eh it's like half half we have some of it we lost part of it that's why the first 16 days some Jews observe aos some Jews don't observe a next 16 days says areas that we don't have at all and that's why all Jews observe the second 16 days of and then the final 16 days are is which says the only thing that we have left in its full glory and starts the last 16 days of that never lost any of it and brings proofs to this idea The grow also in many places writes that basically we have no were basically have nothing left and is the only thing we have left. So sort of is the kickoff of the uh but it creates an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand nobody challenges and says leave me out of more than on the other hand nobody gives more for than yeah it's a really interesting point and something that you discuss at length in the booker. So uh there's that you mentioned N you have a whole book on him and that's we'll leave that for a future episode perhaps we'll come back to that um I will mention already I should mention here that so the new book and the other one you have them in English art school you also have farmia so the uh but definitely the Romero and ace and like book specifically I'll put a link in the show's notes where anyone interested can purchase it it's available art school.com various farm stores it's available in stores online so I just wanted to make that uh mention that point now something else I want to point out about lagimer here is that there's another yard site, one very famous yard in Lagua that you mentioned earlier that the rashiva and the different dignitaries in Europe would not go to meron and part of that it was hard to travel you couldn't just get on a plane but they did go on to the kev of dam is his his yard site in Krakow right is on they would go to him so uh talk a little bit about the rao and his his yard site being on lagimer and I I believe there are those that still go today yeah you know um actually I'm going to be going there. I'm leading a trip to Krakow. We're leaving Wednesday night. But um for Lagar, it's interesting thing that the historically in Lagbo part of the duties of being a rabbi in Krakow is you would have to give a drul. So you had many distinguished rabanim in Krakow. You know the shak himself was a talid of the mines. Shak came to Krakow to learn from the mines. The Bach was in Krakow. Tyus Yumpt was in Krakow and um you have Migala Mukis of course was in Krakow. You have um Shiman Cyer gave a very famous drus on the Ramyard site. You have corner was a was a raven krakow and ravenal in the formeral he has astounding drusses that he gave on the raard site um one very interesting point that once made on the ramar site was that there are only two people in history whose father's name is seared onto their own name and Mosha is right because Ram Mosha's father was was so interesting this phenomenon that two great luminaries whose father's names were fused onto their name are the two sadikim who are who passed away and his point is that neither of them innovated a discipline on their own everything that both the Raji did was uh founded on the toyra of Rabak Ka and earlier Tano it was he's basically continuing on the legacy of the earlier authorities as well as the Rama Rama was was continuing the the mess of Ashkanaz the Mahari Bruna and so forth. So that that's an interesting observation. Uh my father suggested you know and maybe this will bring us back to the dichotomy of the um and that is even though the rashbite is on nevertheless when it comes to actual practice you have to follow the pisque of the of the piskin. So you have the rashbi and the rama in a way you know you couldn't have two more polar opposite type of uh of luminaries but nevertheless and I think this is the approach to how do we understand that in the realm of kabala and mysticism of courseam could supply you with countless reasons for lack but when it comes to Jewish practice of how to conduct oneself says I have no idea the reason for this and not meaning none of my reasons will justify practice and I think that's a very important ideal and value for you know students of Tyra to know that on the one hand it's very important to be educated in many ideas and uh there's so many out there but but is not going to be governed by an idea that you see in the because even would never say or govern how one should behave based on what he wrote in the drash. It's beautiful for for Torah, for understanding, for Havana, for Torah and for limo tora, but it's not it's not going to enter the realm of you know many people get confused about that and I think studying the here is a very good way to highlight that not everything you learn it's important to know it's important to learn and it will even elevate your perspective on something but it won't govern the way you accord yourself. Yeah, you really see that distinction in the like I saying it's a really good example for other areas of Yishkai. One other yard set I want to mention on is one that you brought up to me. It's worth mentioning is the Ramos Narroll is buried in Mets in France and it's worth mentioning. We're talking about black here and yard sites of as you told me you sent me a picture from he was he's the author of Kel Mal but he's he's known the first of all he's famous his son was the ma very famous important work but he was someone he I believe escaped around Takat he dies in Mets but he the says he was a friend of rebeshel of Kkow and maybe he learned by his father and uh So that's his yard site is also and he's very in Mets in France and his yard site is also like Emer is just worth mentioning if I may and one thing I mentioned a few places in this in this you know my grandfather I mentioned he's a Holocaust survivor um the last camp that was liberated was liberated was Dha and when it was liberated I believe in April there were some survivors that had already been put on the cattle cars and they were liberated a little bit And my grandfather was from the last group of survivors liberated. He was liberated on Lagimar. So for me personally, for our family personally, you know, the mercy of Lagbo, if I could share with you a little a little mystical uh idea and connect it to the tragedy that happened in my a few years ago. You know, this is something the Beneskai writes in. You know the the name of Alhammed followed by the writes in many places that Kim is the way to sweeten the din is you take the letters before watch this. You take the letters before alim before al remains an alf before alid before a hey before a um before the final me a regular me. So becomes if the numerical value of that is 74 says that's the secret of is 74 that's what we call the shame. Okay now but writes the main switch over the main transition is the letters because the alf and the man don't switch. So it's the lame which is 45 becomes which becomes 33. So 33 represents the the core of and the says that's like the of is the transition of the three middle letters of toal. But what's amazing is if those letters don't get switched and they remain at lammed that's 45 and we know that 45 is associated with the tragedy of Laga of uh those who perished on Lagimar a few years ago which is you know if you understand the mystical root of it's pretty haunting that when the miden is not transformed into the the midin is is the number 45. Wow, fascinating. Really? Uh, so this is the book that well that's not the book. This is the podcast and the book has a lot of other things in it as well that we weren't able to get to. So like I said, I will link to the book uh safer in the shows some of your other works as well. And uh anyone you know and like I said we in the future perhaps we'll come back we'll do May we'll do some other ones. And so thank you very much for joining me. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.