When in Rome...

[Music] hello everyone and welcome back to let's talk hashras presented by the cautious awareness project in conjunction with Torah anytime today we are joined by ravnakham Rabinowitz senior rabbinic coordinator with the OU and Rob of the manuscripts of Base medrish in Flatbush thank you forever benowitz for being here thank you so much for graciously having me many people are familiar with their reliables here in the United States people are comfortable at home they know what they use they know perhaps what they don't use they have people to call I think when traveling abroad the challenge of cautious is is just magnified so much and people are very often unaware and maybe they make assumptions or they stop making phone calls they're not really sure what to do we hear this from from many many people I'm not talking about when you go to Artistic over there people are maybe perhaps more familiar but especially when you go to Europe but based on your experience could you give us some pointers when someone is traveling overseas wherever it may be what should they look for and and you know what audience could you give them okay I think here in the U.S we're on some level we're spoiled because there's a history of conscious in the United States they're you know many stories about 100 plus years ago in the United States where you know all kinds of scandals unfortunately that that went on um cautious was in the hands of individuals it wasn't in the hands of large organizations um you know with directors of groups of rabbanim who who regulated the way cautious worked and there were many problems what I find sometimes is is that we're blessed here in the United States but not just blessed because of yes living in this free Country a country which has been you know relatively tolerant to Jews generally and into conscious needs and more specifically but I think the cautious consumer I always feel that the an educated conscious consumer is the katra's agency's best Advocate because when the consumer want and demand high levels of conscious then the conscious agencies can translate that those demands into real solid standards of cautious in the field here in the United States we have large organizations non-profit organizations that operate with the level of transparency and also with the level to some extent of uniformity and some of that I'll give credit to there's an organization called echo which is about to say Echo gets a lot of credit absolutely for bringing together kasha's agencies right so the association of conscious agencies Sean fishbein from Chicago is the is the head of that organization it there's information which is shared and the agencies therefore try to work in a uniform fashion but they also work with a great deal of transparency because the professionals talk to one another and if something happens in one agency or in one ashgaha it's often information which is shared with others as a result you can get this type of a uniform in a format there's no complete uniformity in the world right but there's there's certain standards and and demands which were able to and that's why you can walk into a vad restaurant or you can go to a caterer in a particular location or you can pick up a product off of the store shelf and feel a level of comfort yes there are different standards there are different humors that some do or would not apply but it's serious cautious these are serious people professionals who are doing the job the way it should be done when you travel so there's a there's a whole different set of circumstances the you mentioned Europe so Europe is interesting Europe is smaller communities but not just that they're smaller in population but for some reason the the mans of the kosher consumer in in such locations are not received as well by the companies they don't feel that need for example it's very hard to find products with kosher symbols unless you're buying Specialty Products either imported from the US or from Israel which are sold in in some Kosher grocery store you will not find as you travel through Europe if there are there's very few is it simply because the the market is not big enough to make it financially beneficial for the companies is that what it is it's hard to tell it the OU for example certifies over 2 000 plants in Europe but the reason that we're certifying those companies is because they sell to the US or they sell to Israel it's not so much for domestic consumption and even when we try to do this as a service to the European population the Jewish population we're certifying your product anyway right we're in your plant anyway the products are made under kosher conditions why don't you put the symbol on the products sold in Europe and for some reason it's just not accepted it's not done that's interesting and it but again it here as well it's not something we should take for granted right I think it's because people are persistent and people said we want kosher and we want to be able to get those products and something is as minor as picking up a phone and calling a consumer hotline of a company to complain if a product is not Kosher that could be kosher or to complain if there's a mistake that tells the there's not that many people that actually call these lines or send emails and the more that people do that the more that they get feedback from the consumer the more likely these manufacturers are going to try to to meet the needs of of the kosher consumer I wonder if the if the attitude in Europe I'm just you know not not the historian but if it's still a residue of the of the you know anti-Semitism from from from World War II and so on and and you know people still are subject to a lot of a lot of the dislike towards the Jewish community in Greater Europe I wonder if that's related at all but you know very often it comes down to the to the dollar that's a you know that's what we think and and at the end of the day in the United States the kosher market is is a is a tremendous tremendous market and and as you said we're spoiled here right and I think it was in 1923 that the um the OU started it's first which was the Heinz company the h.j Heinz company in Pittsburgh and what was the motivation of a large manufacturer like that I think it was a women's league of the OU that solicited the company and said you know as what was happening at that time was products that had often been made in the home were slowly being moving into factories and they said you know we keep kosher we want to use your product but we'll only use your product if it becomes kosher and and that sort of started something and you know company after company after company until there are many products that they wouldn't dream to bring to Market unless it was kosher but these are these are important lessons where you're saying first of all about the educated consumer is the greatest advocate which is really what this whole conscious awareness project let's talk ashers is built on the the wonderful people came together to create this project is to educate the consumer so that they could be an advocate that's number one and number two I'm learning from you is that never underestimate your power as a consumer in expressing your needs desires and wants to the various companies you never realize how far that could go so that's that's also uh very very important lesson I think statistically when they look at a phone call or an email or whatever other metaphor of communication that's used you feel I'm just one person but you may be one out of 100 people that contact them that's significant that's one percent maybe two people call and sometimes I think it was a number of years ago that stelladoro company decided that the uh I think they called the scrim right that that cookie which um had a parv chocolate filling and they decided it wasn't worth their while to continue to get the special part of a filling they'll go with a milk filling and there was such an outcry and they quickly changed their minds and they went back to making it apart but that's why whether it's the nabiscos of the world or the Cheerios of the world into the General Mills and these companies we're we're not that many people but we're vocal and we must remain like that we have to if we're not vocal it's something that we halila we shouldn't we shouldn't lose what we have so if when someone does go to Europe what should one look for and how does one obtain a list of uh reliable certifications or like you said there may be kosher products without the symbol on it how do you how do you determine that is another important distinction um many of the conscious agencies in Europe provide lists of products that they recommend and I think it's important not to confuse recommended products with certified products you have to realize any product that has a kosher symbol from a reputable kosher agency what what's behind that number one there's a registered trademark that they're using which belongs to the conscious agency they've signed a legal document a legal agreement with the organization that restricts the ingredients that they use in the product the manufacturing practices of the product and the way and how they use the symbol on the product when you don't have when you're absent all those the fact that someone made a phone call to a company and you know did some investigation that's it's a different you know it maybe in Europe that's what they have to rely on they don't have other choices and they recommend products and you know I I certainly don't fault you know or abundant and responsibilities to their communities they have to make sure that the communities have what to eat and and the local people that's what they have at the same time when we're traveling the fact that we're traveling doesn't mean that we should compromise our standards if we're accustomed to certain standards maybe we don't have the same variety that we would have when we're in the United States maybe we don't have the same reach that we would have but uh you know we have to we have to be vigilant and uh in terms of who to ask it's interesting summer up on them are familiar they know the kashva scene but other about him are not as familiar you need people who really understand the the Professionals in the industry that interact with with different agencies and different standards and it's you know nobody likes to talk negatively about another but when you speak to people who are more in the know it's easier to get good information about what it meets the standards it's it's really you know not not to have to compromise oneself to say I'm on vacation so therefore I'll take a secondary level um you know secondary product that's sort of would spoil the vacation well we appreciate everything that that you've done and and like yourself who have made it so comfortable for us here in in the United States with a plethora of of products you know supermarkets that are stacked to you know to the gills with all different types of items and uh definitely when you travel you start appreciating what you have at home oh yeah and we unconscious actually are familiar not just because we're involved in concert because we do travel exactly we go in all kinds of places and we see the limitations and we see um you know many times it means packing food packing a canned food or whatever it may be and I would say you know the credit obviously the people who are my synephis the people who are out in the field uh they're really mashed him are the real Warriors but it's only the cooperation of the the tzibar the the public that demand kashras at the highest standards that make this happen well thank you again thank you thank you [Music] thank you