Kiruv Training Seminar in Passaic NJ 2025

Evening. Welcome. Welcome to many familiar faces, some new faces. Special special privilege for us to host tonight project inspire and Samson who is a maverick in this frontier. He's been working tirelessly for decades to really get this to the forefront. a vision I believe of your rebi. We once had the privilege of having I remember at least once if not twice stand here at this podium and address this is yes with his fervor and passion and excitement. It was infectious. If you just met him once, you wanted to join his team. You wanted to join his team. His vision became your mission because he made it real. He made us realize the gift that Hashem gave us, the beauty of what we have and not just our ability to share it, but our responsibility to share with others. Use the famous mush, the famous parable. If you see somebody drowning, are you not going to jump in the water or call somebody to save the individual? So why is it any different if someone is drowning spiritually? They're totally lost. Don't we have an obligation to throw the person a lifeline? How do you do it? I'm not Remn Weinberg. I don't have a cure of Yeshiva. Well, that's why we're here tonight to hear Samson to show to tell us and to give us ideas of easy things that we can do that can really make an impact and can really impress something and uh I feel it's a good partnership because this yeshiva is the yeshiva for the working man for adult men and women. We have women programs. We have adult men's programs. We have a learning center after you get inspired. What do you do? What's your next step? Your next step is to come and learn Torah. To keep yourself constantly plugged in because once you're inspired, inspiration is fleeting. It comes and it goes. It's like a flash of lightning. And without a course of act a actual step and a way to keep it in motion then the feeling and emotions we have don't necessarily carry forward. But if you want to keep it alive and that flame ablaze always when you plug yourself into Torah learning then you're alive. When you plug yourself into shmere mitzvah centered around Torah then you're a full power force. So this yeshiva has many things that go on here. I just want to bring it to attention because sometimes people tell me, "Oh, I didn't know PTI has that. I didn't know Yeshiva has that." So just to make you aware and if you know somebody who can benefit or if you like to take advantage of any one of of the out there that you were unaware of existed, we have five levels of learning here for men in Gomorrah. weekly we have 20 warm faculty hon members who live in the community a series of gdole and great speakers who come and speak here periodically this customized kavusa 101 learning you can get many people don't know but we purchased a house and we added it to the campus of PTI which is now a young professional home for those who want to live in a community that will continue their ability to grow in ter mitzvah. Most of them are from homes which are not shar mitzvah and these people have made a change in their course of life and embrace terror mitzvah and it's very difficult for them to keep that practice in an environment which is not supportive but they come here and they can be supportive and continue the growth in learning. In addition, we give shu dating coaching, shida, matchmaking, and job connections for these young men. We have a vibrant young professional program with over 45 active young men in their 20s and 30s, good guys and single. Anyone wants to know good girls for shidim? These guys, there's a lot of good guys on the market right now. And uh if you'd like to host for shabis, for meals, for yumptiff, there's plenty of people looking. And um Dr. Bratzky brought my attention. We're the closest adult yeshiva to Manhattan just 20 minutes away. So we have diverse student body from a from mmo from all over. And I was just a shabis in farco. I went to visit the sher program which really started developing a few years ago. It's incredible what they're doing. But there's nobody in North Jersey, nobody on this side of the Hudson that's doing what we're doing. So if you know anyone, it's for all ages, any stage and phase in your life. I just want to give a shout out and a special thank you to Dr. and Mrs. Bratzky for really taking lion share to spearhead this to put this together. And it's uh cover to get to introduce Yiddi Auvi, my good friend Samson, who shares so many so many good uh ability and desires to impact our fellow brethren, brothers and sisters. And I feel very close to you and I know we had a very warm connection to our rashiva, my singer Zatal. and uh he always had very singer always had the greatest greatest feeling of affection and endorment for you and what you do and uh he'd be very excited you're actually standing here tonight to give us share with us these words governor rabbi Samson the director of project inspire thank you very much bowdenheim it is um it is an amazing shock so to speak between project inspire and pti there's no question about it and it is It is a little it's moving to me to be standing here because of what you said which is just that you know we're in the sha of of the the petira of Rabbi Singer was a giant he was a giant in meidos in Torah but um you know his his love for for aml and for every individual and his care as simple as aim his his anas it just you don't really need me if you were part of PTI you just think what would uh what would a ry singer have done you know just do that and I think I I'm done I'm done you know so um okay so we we I have some what to say um if people have questions please you feel free I probably will stop at various points uh to ask if you have any questions um don't be shy um but to start with I just wanted to to to sort of uh express that Well, also that it was mentioned to me that people want to know a little bit about dealing with their families and so forth. We we'll try to cover that. But the main thing really in Kiru is to get the basic mahalak of what kir is about and how to do it for anyone and then you can apply it to your to whoever whoever it is. So we're going to cover that. Um a lot of that material that we're dealing with is based on Noah Weinberg's material. He didn't put it together in a kov training program but it happens to fit like a glove. Basan, you'll see um you know I think back to you know when when it was mentioned to me that people want to know about family and being Macara family it did I did had to stop and think for a moment that if it wasn't for the fact that my brother um ended up in Asia and cared about me I don't think I would be I mean so you never know maybe had different but it was only the fact that my brother was anorah and he encouraed enouraged me to come and try and get him out that I ended up where I am today, you know. So, you know, we that that may be a very unusual approach. How do you mur your brother sort of encouraged him to try and get you out of yeshiva? Okay, that was a long time ago, but it seemed to have done the trick. So, uh if it wasn't for that perhaps I perhaps wouldn't be standing here today. So, yes, we have to care about our family and we'll we'll get into that a little bit. But the first things first is that look, kirup is a very sort of exciting thing these days. It's a lot of interesting stories and why great and films and this and that and it's kind of like you know it's almost entertaining. He's like, "Wow, what a story." The first thing we understand, it's more than entertaining. It's more than a nice thing. It's really, you know, a little bit of a a to say the least. You know, we're living in a generation where Rahman, you know, 90% of our brothers and sisters are not keeping Torah mitzvah. You know, it's they're not connected to Torah in a in a in a significant way, let's call it. You know, that's a tragedy of in incredible proportions. you know, I I believe the statistic today is that three out of four people who Jews who get married today in America marry out. You know, that's that's that's a that's a terrible that's that's it's it's a crisis. It's really a crisis and unfortunately it's not getting better, you know. Um so we have to appreciate that and this is how project inspire really start started with the idea that you know what there's a lot of wonderful cure of professionals doing wonderful jobs out there and they really are amazing right but if you understand that there's four and a half there's five approximately 5 million Jews you know you in in America and maybe it's changed since I started saying this 20 years ago but that's what you know um there's about you know four and a half million not who are not and you have a couple of thousand Kira professionals maybe if you're lucky you know then even if they get a 100 people involved each you're only left with 4 million 200,000 left you know so it's clear you know left to the care of professionals it's not going to do the job right so really who's going to do the job who's going to do the job it's has to be that everybody p every year understands it's my obligation I have a responsibility. They're out there. They're my brothers and sisters. I have to do something. So, first of all, let's just understand a little bit what what is the the the the obligation? What we're dealing with with we're doing Torah mitzvah. What are the mitzvah involved in Kirb? Let's start from there and then we'll move on to the techniques. So, let's I'll throw it out to you. Which mitzvah are involved when you're when you do Kira? What mitzvah are you fulfilling? What mitzvah obligate you? What would you say? Let's hear. >> It's amazing that was always the first one and it's a good one, you know. So, because so we all know from the Torah, right? And that's the essence the essence love people and bring them to to Torah explains, right? that why is it say why does it say oh hey there's a briest or makar in the Torah put together why those two things put together because if you love someone you want to give to them if you really love them you want to give them the best thing you could possibly what's the best thing you could possibly give them says that's Torah there's nothing greater you could give someone the gift of Torah right so if you love people then you surely want to share Torah with them so that's that's one yes after yeah what else that's here >> yes that it's that's quite an amazing one right that if you lose an object you should send you should return that object right it's a if a person loses a limb you should try to help the a person loses their you know you know isn't connected to their their yiddish kind that you should try to return that to them right it's their rightful heritage you should return it to them. Okay, good. What else? >> I'll stand by. >> Okay. Lo, Rabbi Bodahan Bodenheim mentioned that to start with, but that's a very clear that the says he was pretty much I think maybe got it from you. Well, once you know that that if you would you wouldn't stand idly by we understand that though someone know if someone's dying, god forbid, you don't stand by and walk on and say, "Well, I I didn't kill him. I just let him die." You know you don't you don't say that you know you can't quite rationalize that so easily right but you know if it's their if it's their nishama and their eternity then you know what what's it going to do with me what's my responsibility you know it's so you know this is where noah you always used to say when it's blood you feel it and the body the goof feels it and you're jolted he used to say if there were 10,000 people dying every day believe you me you do something about it you wouldn't just sit there and say what have I got to do with it was But if it's if it's 90% of Claudia's realm, ah, I can sleep quite soundly at night, you know. But it's a Yeah. Right. So, what else? That's a good one. Any others? Any others? >> Good. Also good. You should surely reprove. It sounds a little harsh, right? you know, go up and like you come up and like tell the guy you're a sinner, you know, that's not the way to do it. If you read the hill, you understand that you have to do carry you have to means really it's a that you care about someone and they're missing something that's essentially valuable to them and your heart goes out and you speak to them in sensitive ways so you can help them get what that's rightfully theirs to come into to go into the right path because you care about them. Right? This is all part of it. To tohaka is part of that. It's not tohaka is is not is is you know unfortunately if you do it the way the way that it sounds which is like you come over to them and you tell them you're doing the wrong thing and this then you'll fulfill the second part of the of the par which is the end up doing a because you're embarrassing the guy you're not being productive and you didn't do a mitzvah you did an so you have to be very careful with that but yes certainly that's it yes >> yes we had that at the beginning but it's such an important one it's such an important one we'll say it again and we'll come back around to that as well Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> You have to you care about serving. You want to be served in his honor to be >> beautiful. That's that's beautiful. Hashem I mean there's a couple of mitzvah that come that I think you but um we say right it's for everything is for his honor. So, you know, we're representing a cottage bor in this world, but as a Jewish people, where's the honor? Where's the honor of Hashem's honor when we're not fulfilling what we should be doing or as as the Rambam says in Mitsm that you're supposed to get the truth of Judaism out there, right? That's right. So, right, the other one, and we'll we'll move on from this, but the other one which is sort of related to what you're saying is there's a hashem. I thought that right that if you love a cottage right at the Ram says in say mitzvah that that that Abraham was oh was his beloved why because he went alo he made people beloved to Hashem right that that was that if you love something you want to share it your parents come to the town you want everybody to meet them your best friend comes you got to meet my friend if you love if you have a a recipe which is the best recipe you like there's a certain music that you love got to hear this if you love a kesh boru you want you're going to want to share it says Ra and if you don't it reflects the opposite way it reflects that you don't really love Hashem so much because if you did you'd share it fact you don't means that you don't so although the Ram seems to be saying that by sharing it it's it's morius that it does bring you to a a place where you'll feel a greater sense of love of Hashem that by by sharing it but that's certainly part of the miss of of of of um okay there are many more we'll we'll just we'll we'll do with that I just wanted to get us a let's just let's well let's just two other points which is one is arous no mitzvay per se it's a more basic in a certain way than arous is an understanding that we are all one right and therefore if like like rashonim explained if you made if you didn't make kdish I made kdish already I can make kdish for you. How can I make Kdish for you? Why isn't there a bra? I already made kdish. No, because there's a part of me which is you. And if you didn't make kdish, then that means there's a part of me that didn't make kdish. And therefore, I'm allowed to make kdish again, right? Even though I did it already because there's a part of me which didn't make kish, which is you. We have to understand what that means that if it really comes to the concept that that the kal is one goof. We're all cells in the body of the Jewish people. We're one, right? And if and therefore how you know if 90% of Kalishan isn't keeping Torah mitzvah there's a big part of me that's not keeping Torah mitzvah. So from Ara I have to you know I'm I'm obligated. I have to it's me. It's not just you. It's me. It's it's us right. But perhaps even more basic than that and and definitely related to this point, but I always say the most basic reason is you know what we accepted the Torah on it's related to aras but what's the what was the idea that we we we undertook we were to be the we're going to be a we're going to be a go this is this it's it's we accepted it as an arm we accepted as an arm we're going to we're going to breathe that moralizing and spiritualizing force in the whole world to bring the whole world to an awareness of Hashem. This is what we were as an arm to be an ory to be an a light to the nations. How bright is that light shining if only 10% of us really are sort of aware of it? Yeah. How can how how the most basic it's it's more basic than any mitzvah. It's it's gets to the essence of what we are doing here as a people to do. We're here to be mad shame shar to bring about to bring about about this awareness in the whole world as an arm and if only 10% of doing wow oh boy oh boy we're missing the point so it's to to in order to achieve our purpose as a people it's so basic of course Israel has to be keeping Torah mitzvah if we're not where are we okay so these are these are some of the the ideas that just for us to realize it's not it's a nice it's a beautiful thing when you hear the beautiful stories it's a we have to try. We really have to realize that this is our responsibility. It's not just a nice thing for Kira professionals. It's for every single Jew. Every single Jew is obligated and we have to try. Okay. So, let's get into a little bit of how we go about doing this. So, I'd like to share a little story and you'll understand why after it. And this was a story that and it's a little bit of a joke. Um that this was a story that happened. And it was well known when I was in Ibrahimo Zoka to spend 10 years in the old city of Ushalain in atura learning and then teaching and so forth. And there was a common story that everybody knew that if following happened to you, you knew exactly why. There's two guys, they're walking, they're backpacking through, you know, uh, the old city. They just did Nepal. They're doing the old, they're doing Israel, then they're going to go and do Europe and they're passing through. And we, you know, were in the yeshiva. We would you know be meet these guys and we were trained a little bit you know so we would go up to these guys and we say like you know what are you doing and they say you know they just we just came from Nepal we're doing so then they would ask you what do you do so you say you wouldn't say I'm an ishiva they don't understand what this is you say oh I'm in a college of Jewish studies what are you learning you don't say tal you don't say you say well oh I'm learning about Jewish wisdom right you know how to understand how to get more pleasure in life we'll come back to that how to understand relationships better we'll come back to how to understand what life is about. If you get the following reaction, one guy is fascinated. He's like, "Wow, this is this is more the essential experience of Israel more so than picking bananas on a kibutz. This is this is really this is really like, you know, could we come and see it? You know, could we?" That's one reaction. The other guy, you see, he's beginning to sweat a little bit, right? He's looking at you. You see red like flashing lights. He's like, you know, we'd love to come, but you know what? I you know, we were going to the Israel Museum and he's grabbing the guy. He's like, so what's going on? So the what was the joke? The joke is that the guy who's really excited, he's not Jewish, right? He looks as interested in anthrop anthropological study of the Jewish people. How fascinating. But the Jewish guy, he's looking at you and he's thinking inside, I know what you're trying to do. you're trying to pull me in and it's orthodox Judaism and it's dangerous, right? And he sees himself with a black hat and you know whatever and um get me out of here as soon as pos. I don't want to touch us with a barge pole, right? And to be honest, it was a joke, but it was almost always true, right? Because because the Jewish guy is now what? Why? Because the Jewish guy has got misconceptions about Judaism, right? He's he's scared silly, right? It's dangerous. He really pulpably feels this is dangerous, right? So what's go why does he feel that way? Emotions are a reflection of your attitudes and your thoughts and your understanding. So if you could understand what is it that he's really thinking? What is it that he why is he so scared right out of his wits, right? If we could understand what his misconceptions about Judaism are, right? and we can turn them around such that when you say orthodox Judaism Yeah. he's going to say, "Oh, let me have it." That's the key of process and that's what we're going to discuss some of while uh tonight. Yes. >> I was just going to and in response to your question of what is he thinking? Typically, it's like, "Oh my gosh, if this is real, if this is I have to change my whole life." >> Okay. So, what So, so if it's >> that's a scary thought in your mid20s. >> Okay. Okay. Fine. We'll get into that. But that's definitely definitely true. that moment happened. Yeah. >> 20 years. >> But if you offered him a million dollars, it would also change his life. Right. And he would say, "Let me have it straight away." Because he sees the benefit of that life change. Right. >> It's life change in the sense it means your whole social >> Exactly. Okay. Okay. We're going to get to that, but that's that's 100% correct. So, let's So, so what we're going to do now is go through some of the there's basically four main misconceptions. Each misconception we need to understand. What is the misconception? We need to understand it for ourselves so that we are clear on it. Sometimes we're not so clear on it ourselves as we'll see. Number one. Number two is we need to know how to share the misconception with a person who's not religious, right? And number three in you'll see that each misconception has a der a voda in how to do kiraov that comes out. Right? And I'm just saying from my experience of being in the kira field and as a as a so-called professional this in my opinion is what if you want to know how to do kira this is what you need to understand and rest builds on it. Of course you can go more and more. We've got we've got you limited time here but we'll do what we'll do what we can. So the first misconception is that Judaism looks down right. Yeah. This is the first question that Judaism looks down on non-religious Jews, right? Meaning it's not a misconception that Orthodox Jews can look down on non non-religious. That could be actually kind of kind of true. You know, it's not necessarily a misconception unfortunately. But the misconception is that Judaism validates that's that's okay. That's you know Jew you Orthodox Judaism looks at me as being a lesser person. Right? So if I I perceived it that way that you look at me as being less than you that you don't really accept me that that I'm you know so you know what do I want to have to do with you right like it's not you know it it's it's it's a person won't even go into the door in the first place. So how do we how do we understand this misconception? This is something you can say to a person who's not from um and you say like this. It says in the Talmud, it asks questions. Sanhedrin says, "Some person puts a gun to your head and says, "We'll kill you or you um kill this innocent person, right? Can you kill the innocent person to save your life?" What do you say? >> No. Why not? >> Who's to say his blood is >> right? Says the the Gamarra that you don't know whose blood is redder, right? So, what does that mean? So you understand you don't really what that does that mean is you don't know who the better person is really in God in in in the eyes of you don't know you don't know we don't you don't know right so we'll come so so let's just take this a little bit one step further let's say the person put who puts the gun puts the gun to the head of if he was alive and says we'll kill you or you see this good for nothing lay about he never did a day's work he go he he pickpockets people you don't want to know how he treats his wife he to reash we're going to kill you unless you kill for this good for nothing layout. What's the haka? Can Reasha kill? What do you say? >> No. Why not? >> Hak and not only the svara is the same. It's the same rationale that you don't know who the better person is in the eyes of the now to me. I say this a proof of god of Torah in and of itself that the Torah should say such a thing, right? Who the broad-mindedness of it. But you have to understand what that means. Yeah. Why not? Why can't you say that the god of adore is is is a greater person? Because you don't know as we said before, you don't know this person. You know his makeup. You know his chemical makeup. You don't know his genetic makeup. You don't know what good deeds he's done which on his level might for him outweigh all of yours because of we don't know. That's not our realm. Right. Only a kesh baraku judges people. We don't we're not in that realm. Only almighty judges people. And therefore, yeah, if you see a religious person, right, who's looking down on non-religious Jews, yeah, he may look religious, he's not quite as religious as he looks because he's going doing something which goes against the essence of the Torah. Now, the this is really crucial because if people don't feel accepted, listen, if I would say to you, listen guys, you know, come, I want to invite you to my house. And you know, if you're going to come to my house, going to be a whole bunch of people that look down on you and think you're bad. you say, "You know what? I'd love to come, Rabbi Samson, but I would, you know, I have an appointment um at the Israel Museum. You know, I can't make it. I can't make it. I'd love to I'd love to come, but I can't because we don't we we can't stand that feeling. It's a horrible feeling not to be accepted." Right? So therefore, so therefore, we have to appreciate that when you're looking, you know, every human being is made who is a wise man. And you can say what we've just said to a person who's not religious and say, "You know what? I sincerely believe you could be a better person in the eyes of the Almighty than me." Yeah. I could There's a lot I have to learn from you. You're made in the image of God with infinite potential. What a what an honor to know you. And the truth is, ladies and gentlemen, not only should you say it, but you should even believe it, right? You know, it's not enough to say it. You should believe it, right? That every human being is is is remarkable. You know, so much that I can learn, right? Yes. You have a question. >> It's a challenge on that. But isn't there something about someone who's not shabas? They don't count on that. >> I mean, that's that's a hockey question. First of all, first of all, that's not I mean that's we can get into that. It is a bit of a but Mosha doesn't pan that way. Ra Mosha says if you miss you can you and so and it's not really relevant here. But even if the guy is not religious, you don't know. You don't know who's a better person to go. It still applies. >> Yeah. So, halakas are halak is what you can do, what you can't do, and so forth. You know, that those ask your your >> local Jewish, you know, Orthodox rabbi. But it's not it doesn't uh affect this this >> understanding. >> Okay. Um so this is the first thing. So we have to understand that, right? If you now this is just the sra. The sra is don't be judgmental. It's the key of kov. Don't be judgmental. As soon as they feel you're being judgmental, they're out to the Israel Museum, right? They're out. Right. So that's the that's the a right and we have to work on ourselves. Very easy to be judgmental, right? So So what but that's just a sra. That's just a don't what you shouldn't do. If what you shouldn't do is be judgmental, what is it that you think that you should do? >> Being accepting. >> Be accepting. Okay, that's try. That's right. Accepting. Don't be judgmental. Be accepting. They're sort of two sides of the same coin. What else? What else could you do if he's going to be so turned off if he was judgmental? What do you think would make him feel more closer? >> Build himself. >> Build him up. Like what? >> Like his god, the godless of a person, the godless of a Jew. So like Rabbi Singer always said, even if he's if he's laying in the gut or you know in his vomit or whatever, tell him, >> right? That's you. We apprec You have to appreciate that about him. >> But how do you build him up? You said build him up. How am I going to build him up? >> You you you tell them that like I I see the potential. You I said, you know, I I >> you know, we're we can't judge someone because we don't know where, you know, like and and everyone h everyone has the ability to be emotion. I mean, it's all tapped in there. It's all in there. You know, Bish never has a so like for him too. >> Yeah. So, just be careful on that point. Just be careful that if you say, "Listen, I think you have tremendous potential. You could be the most religious person in the world." They'll say, "Thanks very much." You know, because that's you're you're you're not respecting where they where he's at, you know. So, if if if you're building up, it is true. I agree with the point. Build him up. The question is how do we build someone up? Yes. >> Basically, I I think personally speaking, um just valuing their life experience. >> Beautiful. >> Like a sense of like, you know, not discounting it like that they wasted their life. So what do you have to do to someone to value? How do you get how do you get to their life experience? >> An irreligious doctor. >> Okay. >> As an example, it's incredible what you do. You probably don't even realize that you're doing one of the mitz saving people's lives, >> right? >> Like really I went to medical school to make money. Whatever it is. >> Okay, that's good. That's good. That's good. >> Just whatever it is every in any profession trying to see the value and maybe possibly putting >> but in order to do what you're saying. Yeah. In >> get to know them. Okay. That's right. Get to know be interested in them. Right? First thing is be what do you have to do to be interested in someone listen >> ask them about them listen you got to listen mean that don't judge them accept them right listen to them right listen to people you know this is my last gun story for the night but you know used to tell this gun story that there's a a guy comes up to another guy with a gun and he says I've been trying to get someone to listen to me my whole life you're going to listen to me for the next hour whether you like it or not right now it's it's a joke but it's bought Mrs. Sparum this story and and it's not such a joke because we relate to it especially in this generation where everything everybody is so so fastpaced and you've got these and the phone and I can't people can't sit still as the add generation if you listen to someone if you really listen to someone and you care about them you show interest in them you want to know what their life is about wow that's going to make an impression right again sincere right authentic right not a joke right these are this is the essence. You see, we if if we're trying to get someone to become from, you know, I'm going to get him from how do I get him from? You're not you're not relating to the guy, right? You want you want to get him somewhere. Now, I I just I wasn't going to say this, but I will say it now because I'll just tell you people talk about having an agenda, right? You shouldn't have an agenda, right? There's now the reality is and it's, you know, if someone comes with agendas, they're still good. But the reality is there is nothing wrong with having an agenda, right? In fact, if you don't have an agenda with your children that you want them to be healthy, to be happy, to be successful, to get a job, to etc. Means you don't care. If you don't have agenda, then you don't care. So what's the issue that people say that well it does still there seems to be something about an agenda which is offensive, right? So the answer is like this. I'll give you a story. An old friend of mine from from Yeshiva actually spoke to him yesterday when I was sliced like a long time ago, right? I wasn't I he I was uh I wasn't I was sick that day. Nothing terrible but I was sick and I figured by lunchtime you know all my friends are going to come and see where was Haim you know he didn't come to Shir you know and guess what no one came because I was okay you know so um evening comes by and one guy comes by my dear friend a fryer he comes by and uh and he says um he spent an hour with me and it was so nice I felt so good he really made me feel good and everything and then he said to me he said he said no problem because I'm going to get a lot of reward in the world to come for this. And my face dropped. Now, why did my face drop? Because I want to tell you something. First of all, he didn't really mean it. You know, he didn't he didn't mean that that was the only thing. I'm just telling you he didn't mean it. But the way it came across Yeah. was that you're kind of you're using me for your world to come, right? It means you don't really care about me. You just want to get what to come. So when somebody has an agenda, what's wrong with it if the agenda isn't about you? So a missionary often will have an agenda to get someone to become whatever it is, they don't really care about you. They want to get their brownie points. They want to get people to do this no matter what. That's their mission in life. They became it's not because I care about you. It's because I'm trying to get you somewhere and then I get the reward in the world to come or whatever it is I think I'm going to get. When you are using someone so to speak for your because you want to get them I've got to get these people from no matter they'll feel it from you right it's got to come from an authentic place of real caring if you would have said to me it's my pleasure it's such a pleasure to come and see you I would have felt so good when your pleasure is in the act of caring and in the person there's nothing like that that's that's a compliment right but if it's using so that's the thing agenda. There's nothing wrong with agenda. You want to help people, you want to do that. Just make sure the agenda is coming from the it's it's it's with integrity and authenticity and coming from a real place of care. Okay. So, so, so in terms of this, we said this s the is listen to people, right? Empathize, feel them, right? Even more so ask them, this is what coming back to what you said, which is how can I build them up? What can I do for them? Right? When I was when I first came to this country, I think you probably tell I'm not from Brooklyn. When I first came to America and I was working for Asia on the Upper West Side and I remember I met a lot of people who got involved and I would ask them, "How did you get involved?" And a lot of them would tell me to his great credit. They said, "Well, I met this guy, his name is Steve Eisenberg, and he set me up for Shabas lunch." Okay. Then I met another guy. Well, I met another person. And they said, "Oh, I met this guy Steve and I, Steve Eisenberg, and he sent me to such and such a class." And I said, "And it kept happening." So I went over to Steve, I know anybody knows him. I hold he's one of the love of Sadikim of the generation really too. And he and I said, "Steve, how do you do it? How come that ever there's so many people?" So he told me the following answer, which I've held on to since then, which is he said, "You know what? I look at myself as a walking Walmart, right? What you know, I live on the Upper West Side. On the upper side, there's basically three P things that people mainly want. They want a shock. They want a they want a an apartment and what's the third thing? A job, right? Yeah. So, I know all the contacts. I've got all the contact at my disposal. Somebody tells you this, okay, go to this person. Go to this. Whatever it is that they need and they want, I look at it as this is what I'm about. I'm a walking. I'm going to try and help people as much as I can. Right? That's what I do, right? And that is an incredible recipe how to be macar of people because when you care about people that way it's so touching it's so moving and I'm going to say this point I'm taking everything out of order but because I was told to talk about family but I want to tell you when one of the things you know I braashem was zoka not to get my brother out of maybe for a little bit but we both ended up in Jerusalem for 10 years or whatever it was you know and we used to come back there's just the two of us and we used to you know come back to my uh parents They weren't thrilled at the time, you know, about the two sons giving up medical school and university to go to this yeshiva that they didn't know what it was exactly. But but yeah, time went by and what did we do? We really really try laid it on thick kib of the aim. We really laid it on thick, right? And we meant it. We appreciated it to have incredible parents and we had tremendous uh appreciation for them and we would do whatever we come back and we help them with things and buy things in do whatever we can. Meanwhile, their friends, you know, who didn't have no uh from kids who were around, they don't come to visit us. They don't do this. After a while, excuse me, it got through that. Wow, look what happened to Reena and and Stanley's children that they look how well they came out despite they ended up in a cult or whatever it was. Yeah, right. It, you know, but it got through. I'm saying it got through and and really the the the place to start always is this area of cure of training, which is don't judge don't come across judgmental. come across the loving caring how can I help and if you can do that right it opens up doors because that's what people out there appreciate they appreciate that's what does it mean to be a good person a person who cares a person that's it you know it's not a person you know you know you know how you d or you know what you sits it or whatever it's not it's they this is what they appreciate means a good person so if you can lay that on thick that's half the battle it's half the battle we're going to come back to Anyway, so this is this is the first, right? The first is that um okay, so now lama, right? Lameisa by come by becoming close friends with people, which is really what you're trying to do, which and what you will do if you care about them. Yeah, they will be open to who you are and what you represent. So let's just ask the question practical what how do we do this, right? How do you develop a relationship with people? How do you do it? What's the what's the mahalak? How do you you know what are things that will help you develop relationship with someone that you know who's not from? How do you do it? Right? And and we really have to sort of spell it out because un because we don't necessarily uh join the dots, you know. So I'm asking you, you know, somebody who's not from Yeah. you what do you do based on this aspect of doing kira? Invite them for Shabas. >> Okay. Right. Invite them for a Shabbas meal. Right. If you invite them for a Shabbas meal. Now, there's a lot of halakic questions around that. Um, which there are a plethora of different postkim, right? Most Kirb organizations, I'm just saying it for the record, but you ask your your local rabbi. most say that if you invite someone and you give them a place to stay based on Zman's hat that you that okay so you took off the lifa and that's so there are many there's there's much more makeel um and there's much more mak you know so but you ask your local r but um so let's say you invite them right so invite them so that's because you know they they they'll come and they and and it's it's an act of relationship we're going to come back to inviting shabas later in a different section but yes invite them for shabas is a nice way to So what else? Okay, that's one. What else? What? >> Show genuine interest in them. >> Okay. How are you going to do that? >> By really trying to find out, you know, like >> Okay, like we've said all the before, right? So you got to >> Okay. >> Yes. >> What did he say? >> So a genuine have genuine interest in them as we had said before, right? Yeah. >> When somebody asks, can you repeat the question? >> Yes. Yes. Okay. A tool often is uh to relate to somebody. You can share your own journey, how you know your own not insecurities but but where you've been and and and the things that you've gained, you know, along along the way, the people that have made an impact in you and how so that they start to know you just as much as you. >> Okay, that's very nice. >> Right. So sharing who you are about yourself. Now again there's two parts to that. One is sharing about yourself because you want to develop a relationship and the part B is there is a benefit which we'll get to of sharing yourself and your story and how it you know if you know when I tell people I go to get my brother out of yeshiva when I was 17 people go wow that's interesting but you have to at this stage we're talking really about how to care about someone. So you have to be you have to know when you can add these things that will help them appreciate Judaism. Um which but but but it's true that's part of a developing relationship is not you're listening only to them but you're also sharing yourself in hakam. Yes. >> Be nice and be helpful. >> Be nice and be helpful. Right. Be nice and be helpful. Yes. Of course. Of course. Yes. >> This is almost I think a precursor maybe to a shabas invitation be just like asking a friend to you know have lunch with you. >> I love that. Right. Now let me a little more is just that you know often times they not familiar with kosher or they've only their concept of it is maybe he national hot dogs or something like that. So you take them to a nice restaurant or whatever like and they're like their eyes suddenly open like wow this is kosher >> right like >> right you're educating them a little bit >> like I thought it was just manage and you show them like these wonderful like their minds start open like I didn't realize this is what keeping kosher is >> right so so that what I like about this idea of invite them for go out for a meal with them or invite them on a Tuesday evening or you know meaning it's not shabas has its own power and we'll get to that and you know but we're focusing now on developing the relationship right so if you always think about well shabas yeah I'll get them for shabas but you know maybe they can come just you're just showing that you care about them go out for a cup of coffee with them right more so we all have people that we know who are not from yeah we all do in fact I remember teaching many years ago k of training in in in uh five towns and there was a there was a lady there who you know it was a two-part year of training and the lady put up her hand towards the end of my first class and she said Rabbi I'm telling you you've come to the wrong crowd we get up in the morning we see religious people we I go I I take my children to school there's just religious people I go to the stores there's just religious people we don't know non-religious people we don't so I pull I rolled up my sleeves and I said let me ask you let me tell you about a guy that I met from Williamsburg who does didn't know anybody heard the k of training was so into it I've got to reach out but I don't know anybody I said Rabiel yeah just darin right and Hashem will give you so a couple of months later he emails me and he sends me an email he's was a computer guy he was on a on a on a chat thing with questions people were asking someone asked him you know he and he and he showed me I you know I was adopted by uh my parents But I always knew I was Jewish and I have a question of how do you pray as a Jewish person, right? You know, I'm 60 years old right now, right? So this guy, so Rabiel says, "I'm as a pleasure. I I I I'm happy to ask you to to help you with this." And then he sends me the next email. I'm saying Mod in the morning and the schma at night. What do I do next? I mean, it was unbelievable. So I said to this lady and by the way that guy became I I don't know exactly where on the spectrum but he started really keeping minces because of this guy uh Rubin who at the time and probably now doesn't speak English that great but he did a great job. Um he did a great job. So you don't have to speak English that great with people and you can still be mccur anyway. So I said to this lady if he can do it you can do it. And I said to her, "If I offered you a million dollars, like no line, if I offered you a million dollars for every non-Jewish person that you reached out this this week, do you think you'd come back with a few?" So anyway, last next week she came back and she said, "Rabbi Samson, I reach out to this one, I reach out to this one, I reach out to that one." But the point of the story is that we all know people. We do. We just sort of like forget that we know them, right? Or they're not on our radar. So the first thing we have to do is think who are out who who do I know who should I be reaching out to how do I and and that's number one number two is give them a phone call you know the fact you can be very nice to them when you meet them but you might not meet them again for the tw you you'll you'll you'll listen and you'll validate and you'll help them but I'm just not going to see them for the next 20 years so that's not really a shak you know so the first thing you got to do is get in touch with them to develop a relationship you have to be in touch with them. If you're not in touch with them, you're not going to have any relationship. So, the first thing is call them, email them, be Now, don't be a nudnik, right? But, you know, I know I have a I know someone um he's I think he was put out recently uh he um Yohi Herzog, right? He's a from Kedm. Yeah. He he calls he's he he came to a project inspired thing like 15 years ago and and since then he was decided on Fridays I'm going to call my non-religious friends and people that I know and wish them a good chabas that's what he does right yeah and he tell every some of these people became religious you know you know and he and we'll come into the not all or nothing I'm going to come back to this story and the not all or nothing component to this um but I'm just saying reach you yeah wish people could co phone them give them a phone call and wish them a good shabas with no agenda right this is the no agenda part of what we're saying care because you care right you know it says oh was a brie from the right so so we said that that's the greatest thing that you can give right if you love someone but told me one time that it said oh yeah doesn't say it doesn't say love people so that you can bring that's the agenda point. You got to love people whether they come closer or not. You got to love love them. If of course you want them to come closer, but if your if your um love is conditional on that they're going to come closer. So then it's not going to work, right? You need you know Jakov Weinberg explained that you need if you want to be macar of people to Torah, you have to have the overrias first, right? You can't that's what can't go straight to people tell you it's it's it's the essence is this is the essence of it. We have to do that. So, so okay. So, look, go out for a couple, give them a sincere compliment, right? Um, find out how they're doing and listen, you've got the basic idea here. So, this is it. But you've got to be in touch with people. You have to know who those people are and you have to be in touch and you can invite them and try to develop a connection with them, which doesn't necessarily involve from kite per se, right? Now, can be helpful if they'll come for a shar. That's very nice, you know, but sometimes they're not ready for that, right? So, okay, you get together and get to know them, you be friendly with them, and so and so forth. Okay. So, okay. So, that's number one. Now, I want to say that the biggest the biggest corollery idea here, the biggest what holds us back from Kira of the biggest um block is the following is that you know I don't want to you know I I I see I know this from people but to be honest you know I don't want to invade his space. I want to be respectful right. I don't want to go over any boundaries, you know, and therefore, you know, I'm going to stay where I am, right, and not get involved, right? Because now really what what's going on here is you're being a little bit too British. Forgive me for saying, you know, you're you know, you've got to become a little bit more American. Maybe that's why I came to America, right? So, you got to be able to go across the boundaries a little bit. You know what I'm saying? you know, and you know, and and you have to be, you know, so you know, as we know, and we a a corollery idea, what we said before is, God forbid if someone was about to throw themselves off, you know, the Empire State Building and you were there and you could stop them and you wouldn't say, well, you different strokes for different folks. I don't want to invade his his, you know, his privacy. You know, you you know, you you tackle him down to the ground. You do whatever you can. Or if let's say it was your family, a family member that's hurting and needs help, you wouldn't say, "Well, I don't want to get involved. I don't want to, you know, if they if they hurt and it's your family and they need your help, you better help, right? You can do something." So, we have to understand with non-farm people, they they are our family and yes, this is a talos. So, tackle him down to the ground, so to speak, you know, doesn't mean tackling him down. What it means is take action. Do something. Don't let it go, right? Do something. So, we're constantly meeting people. We're constantly and you don't you know, you know, we don't realize how much we're meeting people. Yeah. We meet this person. He's not he's Jewish and you met him and you met him here and you met there and you say hi and you say bye. You've got to realize you know you know Ro David Olowski tells a story of a guy he's you know end of his life and he's going up the up the on the up escalator had a nice from life and as he's going up he sees his non from neighbor going on the down escalator. I don't know if exactly happens that way based on some of the things we've already said, but okay for the for the for the story. So the white he's trying to he's waving at him. He's trying to just h you know and he's trying to like not get the eye contact you know he was of trying to avoid it. Finally he says hi how you doing? He goes actually not so well. How you doing? Oh great. He says did you know about this you know up escalator down es do you know about this? He says well as a matter I did. He said he he says, "Well, you know, I was your neighbor. I used to come and mow your lawn. If you needed a favor, I'd come and do it for you. How come you didn't say anything? Got to say something. We have to say something." you know my my dear friend of Denil Kurrin who um he's a man and he uh he tells the story of how he was never involved in Kiru but he was working at Rabbi Redinski with Shiva and in the summer the come in and uh they take over the the campus and it was a hot day and they didn't have any uh any you know it was they didn't have any air conditions on so they fig they needed a guy so they asked Neil and said okay yeah there's a guy down here they could hear the party going on whatever he went over to them and he said listen to you know hint to whatever it is however you do it to so uh as he's asking you know he here's the one guy said they want us to put on the on the he's so the next thing is oh so no we you can't do it no I we're going to do it anyway I don't care I'm going to do it I'm not religious no no okay but but at that point he realized He has a neighbor who's a nun from here. So he said he said like you know he knew he's going to do something. He know he's going to do something. So he said he would walk up the path and his heart would start beating and then he would turn around and go hard. And he and and the imam she's imamish a sadic of a guy. He he would cry at night because he wanted to do something. I'm a front person. I got to do something. But he but he couldn't get do it. So he would cry. His wife said finally listen you know ripen either do it or don't. I can't take the crying. So finally he went up and he knocked on the door. you know, he heard a noise. He thought they were coming with a machine gun, but you know what? It wasn't a machine gun. They just opened the door. It was a little cranky. So, they, you know, came to and he said, you know, my name is Daniel Kuran and I'm I live here and I and I'm and I it's pleasure, you know, and you're my neighbor. I'd like to get to know. Anyway, one thing led to another. He put a muza on their door. He taught their their son mitzvah lessons and so and things grew. But he said he said that he was afraid of of doing it, right? But he overcame his fear right because he realized he has to do it. He said from then onwards right now you know once he overcame his his fear right the care kicked in and he became a kiru maniac right he is right he said ladies and gentlemen you become overcome your fear of of invading people's spaces you too will become kira maniac right we just have to overcome it not what you know he's not going to write a letter back to your parents say I met you know I met your son I met your daughter and uh you know what he thoroughly obnoxious. You know, they're not going to do that. You know, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? You know, it's not it's going to be okay. You we've got to prepare to extend ourselves. You might feel a little uncomfortable, but it's worth it, right? But that but we're all talking about being the most important thing is that when you meet new people, right, you should get, you know, speak to them, do everything that we've been saying and at a certain point say, I'd love to stay in touch because as soon as they leave, they're gone, right? So how so then you say you know let me you know could I I' I'd love to send you give you my phone number because if you say how do you do that then you need to get their phone number to send your phone number so that's how you get their because if you just give them your phone number then they'll never call you but if you say let me let me text you my my phone number then you've got their phone number so that's just a something to be aware of okay so so okay so this is it so we would talk so now we're on number two number two the second misconception is that nonreligious Jews think that that if I become religious, it's going to take away all my pleasure and enjoyment of life away. I'm going to be shackled, right, by mitzvah, right? you know, I I I I can't I can't go to, you know, the restaurants and I kind of have the vacations and the relationships and the the fun of every single moment of the day has another haka that I have to do. What what kind of a life is that right? I can't takes away my freedom. It's terrible. Right? So, ladies and gentlemen, the first thing we have to realize Yeah. is that he is wrong. Right? We have to realize that he's wrong. Right? Cuz sometimes we think wouldn't it be kind of nice? You know what I'm saying? like you know I didn't have to do all the you know like wouldn't that be like we have to realize that and this is crucial for us just in our own aodus hashem and certainly in alkov we have to realize right that what is Torah about right and this is something you can say to him right that you know if you can say to him or her what is it that you think that the Torah wants that from us what do you think that Orthodox Jews or religious Jews or religious people think that God wants from them. What do you think? Right. So they might say um I think God wants you to keep his commandments to be good to pray to him to believe in him. Yeah. And those are those are and and you're always saying those are great ideas, right? You validate, right? Don't invalidate. No, those are stupid ideas, right? Don't try that. Right? So they say, "Oh, those are great ideas." Um but let me share with you a way that Judaism looks at it. The relationship of God to us is like a parent to a child. We call God Ainu Malenu, our father, our king, Aino. Right? So we are like Hashem's children. Right? So if that's true, if you can understand what is it that children that parents bottom line want for their children, right? If you could understand what that is, that will give us an insight into what is it that God wants for us. Does that make sense? And you'll say, "Does that make sense?" And they'll say, "Yeah, that makes sense." So you ask them, if they're a parent, you say, "What is it you want for your children?" If they're a a younger person, you'll say, "What is it your parents want for you?" Right? So, and then, so what is it? So, what is it that parents want for their children? What do you say? >> What's that? >> Be happy. >> To be happy. Right. To be happy. The bottom line, you got to it straight away. The bottom, of course, we want our children to be healthy and to listen to us and to and to you to to settle down and so forth, but the bottom line is we want them all of these things so that they can have happy fulfilled lives, right? When a little baby is is start screaming and you start and and and you can't stop a child, that little baby cry, there's nothing that's more painful to a parent than that. But the the little baby starts smiling and giggling and everything. Oh, that's my baby. That's the that'll just tick I'm tickled pink. Right? So, but as a child grows in life, you want deeper pleasures, right? You want them to have fuller pleasures. So, they'll start playing sports and they'll start playing. But, you don't want them to play sports for the rest of their life. You want them to have settled down. You want to have the you want as a parent your children to have all the fullness of pleasure in life. That is what the Almighty wants for us. That's what Judaism says. He wants us to have tremendous pleasure in life. And it's not that we suffer in this world for the next. That's the other religion. We don't believe in that. We believe that you get that Hashem gave us a Torah so that we can have in get the most out of life in this world, right? And we get even more than what's come. That's true, right? But that's it. It's and that's what it is. The Torah is Toratim. It's the instruction manual for living, right? And it's instructions from the creator of the universe how to get the most out of life. And it makes sense, you know, because people go into life and they and they rush into life and they want to get, you know, have have successful marriages and bring up their children and and and have meaning and so forth. And what happens? You you know, you you do it on the job, right? And yet 50% divorce rate and children that don't disassociate from their from their parents. You know what? you got, you know, you wouldn't go, you know, if you were building a bridge, let's say a person says starts building a bridge, say, "Wow, I didn't know you were, I didn't know you were a mechanic, you were, what would you an engineer, right?" You say, you said, "No, no, no. I'm just giving it I'm just, you know, giving it a shot." You know, say or if a person has a, you know, does a open heart surgeries, I don't know your doctor. No, I'm just giving it a stab, you know. Oh, I didn't your your car your son asked you for for the for car keys. Oh, I didn't know you passed the driving test. No, I'm just giving it a a twirl. you know, don't try this at home. It's dangerous, right? So, what's more complicated? You know, you're to to to drive a car or open heart surgery or to live a life of the complexity of marriage and everything that goes into it. You know, you wouldn't you wouldn't you got to learn you have to understand learn first. We have a Torah. That's what the what is the Torah? The Torah is a Toratim instruction manual for the living from the creator of the uni universe how to get the most pleasure out of life. This is something you can explain to him. But we have to realize that for ourselves that this is the case that and we have to understand that that the Torah is the way to get the most pleasure out of life. And that's really what the mid we have to understand for ourselves. Midishar says what is the what what is what is what are we in this world to do? to take pleasure in the mountain. Why? It's the greatest pleasure, the most satisfying thing of all satisfactions. That's it. Love of God, right? Like the like the said all other pleasures are like nothing is for compared to love of God. That's what the Torah is all about. So we can have that spiritual relationship. We can have pleasure in this world and thereby we'll get it in the next world. That's that's what it is that we have to understand that for ourselves that we're not suffering and and by in this world we have to realize that that so so this is something that you can share with him or her right that the Torah is about that the almighty doesn't need our us he's our father in heaven he's an infinite being he's lacking nothing right as as the navi says mitain what are you going to give to the almighty he's quite infinitely fine there's nothing that you can you're going to give him a cup of coffee you're going to give him like it's nothing. There's not. So, if you're not serving him for his benefit because he's perfectly infinite, whose benefit are you serving him for? You know who? For ours, the whole of the Torah is allowing the Almighty to give to us. That's what the Torah is. And we have to get that into our bones, right? But that's something that you can share with him, right? And that's why Hashem put Adam in a garden of Eden because Eden is a place of pleasure. That's what the whole point of this existence is. That Hashem wants to give us tremendous pleasure. gave an instruction manual how to get the most pleasure out of life. That's it. Now, so this is the second point that we have to understand that it's not taking away his pleasure and you can share that with him. But that's good. It might go into his head, but you want him to feel it emotionally. Okay, now he understands that could be life-changing for him to understand that he never understood that Torah was was about that. But what is it that you can how can you get into his bones emotional into his emotions that there's some pleasure in this Judaism thing? How would you do that? >> Be happy with >> what's that >> yourself? Be happy. >> Okay, that is that's the most what you're saying is the most basic. Meaning if you're walking around miserable, right, he's going to say I don't know if I want this. Right. But if you exude a joy of life and that takes, you know, look, we've all got our our nonos and our and our challenges, right? So, you know, we're not perfect, but if you we're trying to do a vote correctly and we're so then, you know, and so then they'll see that you have they they'll see they feel that, right? Yeah. I'll just bring this down a little bit more. Every single person, right, has a need for meaning in life, right? So you ask somebody, "Are you happy?" They'll say, "Yes." Right? Sure. Why? Who? You know, cuz it's sort of But but you understand that there's a little bit of a game going on here because for me to say I'm not happy goes back to what you said before, which is if I admit that I'm not happy, then I maybe I have to change something and I'm not prepared to do that. So of course I'm happy, you know, because if because admitting that you're not happy means maybe I should change. I'm not ready to do that. Right? So fine. So, so um how do we get to that? Um every single person, but the reality is every single human being has a need to feel a sense of meaning in life. And if I don't have it, it irks them, right? It irks them, right? It I get, you know, they may not admit it. They There's two things that we do. We either distract ourselves and start playing a lot of games and watching television and that that's what right or we get involved in become a workaholic or start kind of replacement of meaning of some other sort but to just sit with a feeling if you're a if you're a yid right all the more so if you're a yid you feel it I once asked I once asked I had the great of of writing questions for yakov weinberg itself when he came tora and he used to answer questions and I wrote the following question and his answer like blew me away and you'll hear in a second it blew other people away but I asked the question why should an intelligent person who's enjoying life choose to become an Orthodox Jew that was the question he came in he'd now seen the question before he read the question and he said the question reads the follow and then he said the question is mistaken I'm thinking like the question is mistaken you say question is he said it the question should read why should an intelligent person who's under the delusion that is enjoying life choose to become an orthod. And then he spent 20 minutes discussing why everybody has a deep need for meaning and if you not satisfied this that so what what am I doing with my life? I know I'm in this world to do something and I don't feel I'm doing it. And that's why people go through mid-air crisis because they go they get to 50 years old and they think so what? So what? I wor my way up the cor corporate ladder or maybe I didn't but I but I but what did I what do I really have and then I've got another 50 years and I don't know what's going to be different everybody has this I'll just tell you a very quick anecdote because it's such a gorgeous anecdote my mother shalam was a very big inter and we used to have people at our house everybody used to come and she was sedakas she was a sedkas and you and then she used to become everybody's second mother she was amazing um and there was one there's two guys that used to come one of His name's David Lipkin. Now, if you know the name Lipkin, right, he's a direct descendant of Yishel Salant, right? The other guy was was a direct descendant of the Ahri. These two guys who are not religious and they made classical guitars together, right? They're very, right? And they used to come to us and my brother and I used to come back to from yeshiva and Hyen was the diet, the Ari, he used to always had mystical ideas. I'll kid you not that he would come and tell us about these mystical ideas and and and and Dove and David used to ask us like kashes like you know how can this be and why was this and they were good cashes anyway one day I you know used to come for years I gave him this tape David right this tape why should an intelligent person who's who's under the delusion right that choose he I saw him two weeks later and I said, "David, how was the tape?" He couldn't answer. There was no words. No words. Said, "David, are you okay?" But the guy decided to become, right? He became he married a girl, he's got four kids, right? But this was the tape because it went what happened was he was at the right time. He was ready to hear that he he he heard it. This is me. I I feel this way. And then the next 40 minutes of his speech was, "How do we know that God gave the Torah? Here it is." Right? And so it was done. It was done deal. But I'm just saying that everybody has that. So that's good. Um, okay. So let's go back to where we were. How do we um show somebody the pleasure of Torah? How do we show them the pleasure? How can you show us that churer is pleasurable? >> I mean actually learn with them. >> Okay. Could be. Yeah. If you're learning I hope I hope so. I hope so. >> Yes, it could be. Yes. >> Going back to a shabas experience to go there. But I mean >> Yes. Yes. Very good. like a time whether it's right >> am some good food some singing >> exactly exactly you bring them to to Shabba's table and they sit with you and you bring out your best food and okay you don't have to be perfect either now that's always part of the don't worry about that just just don't you know pick a fight with your wife that that weekend do that another time but um so um so but you have to understand that they we take these things so for granted. Person comes and they say, "Wow, find food and family sitting." How what do you do that you do this like it's like Thanksgiving like you just once a year? No, we do this every week, you know, and like you're saying you you bring you get a little schnaps and you tell Yeah. Just enjoy yourself. All the principles that we said so far, be interested in them, care about them, en have a good time. You know, you you mentioned mentioned that Noah came. He once last time he came he spoke to in in uh I can't remember where it was. It was at the girls school I think and he spoke to a few hundred people came to hear him and there was a question answered at the end right and somebody asked him like if I have someone for shabas should I try to like go through proofs and evidence with them so in his enimicable way he leaned over and looked at the guy in the eyes tell me something you want them to come back right you know so it's it's you know meaning you have to understand there is a place and we can get to it if we had more time for when of of proofs and everything but in general that's not what you're trying to do. You're trying to give them an experience of the pleasure that you care and the pleasure of it. So shabas could be shabas right it could be yant it could be um it could be a simka right um you know take in you know we knew when when hashem I was working in ACU we used to take students to to to Israel and we always knew on a 3-week trip if you can get day 10 somebody to get married on that day and you can take them to the wedding you know and they're going to have the like the the hats on fire and everybody's going to be dancing around and they've never seen anything Yeah, you know, at least that all the girls will start becoming from, you know, you know. Oh, wow. I want to have a wedding like that. Yeah. So, but but there's something there's it's powerful or or the kosel, right? Experience the kosell. How many people have I heard and I know family members that they went they weren't weren't believers. They go to the kos there's something the kaduca there's a kadusha. Give people they need an experience. So whether it's shabas experience whether it's a yantive experience whether it's simple space you can do something with kanaka you can do something p you have to be careful because it be a little shab you want to make sure that it goes well but if you do it right it could be a great experience you just a little harder but uh you want to give them the positive experiences and and share the pleasure of Judaism with them. Now there's a there's a part B of this which is share insights into life that will show them that Judaism has the wisdom right that they need that will help them get more pleasure out of life. Now, of Noah was maybe the expert on this, right? Everybody's I know people heard of the his classic five levels of pleasure that they're all pleasures. He got it from he he learned it out the all pleasures are there five levels and and when you understand that and you can share it then that gives people I was once to sit on an airplane. I've done many planes where I sit down as normal from I start telling them oh you know do you know that Judaism has a definition of happiness? Oh wow. Would you you know yeah you don't want to hear the definition of happiness do you you know be too too weird uh actually know that sounds quite interesting oh oh you do okay so then you just explain then the definition of happiness you have to know the definition of happiness but this is Ra Noah had this this was his five levels of pleasure go through his 48 ways to wisdom all of his stuff is just wisdom for living that we should all know right but it's in terms of helping be macar of people because you know if you're going to get into like you know what do you want to share with them. See really when you're trying to be mur of someone you want to be based on what we said is you care about someone right so if you care about someone you want to know what's going on in their life once you want to get going in their life is what what area of their lives are they struggling with guess what the Torah deals with it because everything's in the Torah so if a person's dating you want to say to them oh do you know that Judaism has a definition of love right inber definition of love right yeah what's the definition oh you you know a person is feeling you know lack of self, you know, is feeling like he's going through a hard time because of what we said before. So, you have to explain to him the whole idea of meaning and how does it work? What is it and what or you know all of these things there's so many insight comfort and pleasure. People are looking for comfort but really they want pleasure. What's the difference? It's a mistake. The body and soul that you know all of these things we have to become ideally experts in good for us and good for them. Right? So you say you used to say that if you would say to someone you know um I'll offer you you know a million dollars for your eyes what do you say any takers million any other ladies maybe they need a little bit extra money for your eyes I'll give you a million dollars no 10 million a million no it doesn't matter rabbi it doesn't matter doesn't matter how much money you give my eyes worth more to me than any money okay fine let's say I would come you see where's my you know I don't know if you saw that I came into this but in here yeah if to I I have wads of $100 bills And the person that asks the best questions, I'm going to give them, you know, it comes to about a million dollars, right? So, if I give you this million, you walk out with a million dollars. How are you going to feel? You know how you're going to feel? >> You're going to feel like a million dollars, right? You're going to feel like a million dollars. You're going to do a jig down the street. So, I say to you, but wait a second, you told me your eyes are worth more to you than any money, right? Is that So, how do you feel? You know how you feel? The same miserable person before you asked the question. But wait a second, but your eyes are worth more to than any money. If you took the money, you'd do a jad. So, what's going on? Something wrong here. You know what? You got used to your eyes, right? That's the problem with us. Yeah. We got used to our eyes. All of Judaism and all of life is about trying not taking for granted the gifts that we were given, right? And that's why in Judaism we say 100 blessings a day. So, you exercise that muscle to appreciate what you have. If you can get used to your eyes, you get used to the new wife, the new car, the new baby, the new thing. You take it all for granted. A person who could see for the first time, person who's blind and can see is ecstatic. Ecstatic because they appreciate. We just had had it a bit longer and got used to it. So, so if you appreciate every human being is a multi-billionaire billionaire even if they don't have a penny to their names. We just have to appreciate what we have. Right? Walking multi-illion. That's it. We have to realize that. So, if you share that this is classic. This is Ravn Weinberg definition of happiness one h happiness is the pleasure you feel when you appreciate what you have if you want to be miserable focus on everything you don't have and appreciate that right so when you in in terms of giving people a feeling of pleasure and and getting first we said is the understanding that Torah is an instructional manual for living and therefore that changes their perspective what Judaism is about but if you can give them insights if you give them the experiences Shabas and also these are two channels of how to show them pleasure. We got a a few minutes left. I want to get on to the third misconception. The third misconception is that people think that Judaism is all or nothing. Right? I'm not going to be a hypocrite. I'm either going to do the whole thing or I'm not going to do anything. You know, and that means essentially that I'm not going to do anything because if there's one thing that I'm not prepared to do, right? So then I'm not going to be a hypocrite. Right? And now it's a rationalization of me why I don't have to do anything. But so what do you say to a person who says like, you know, I I I just not I'm not going to I'm not going to go I don't do things in half stages and I'm going to I'm going to um I can't. So you say like this, you know, that really Judaism Yeah. There's no person in the world Yeah. who can say, you know what, Hashem, I've done everything. You know, I'm the biggest rabbi. I finished everything you did. Now I'm going to go and play tittly wings. I'm done. Right? No, every human being there's things that he or she is doing and there's things or he that or she is struggling with, right? There's, you know, and that's the that's like Raves explains there's a point that everybody says certain things that I'm there all different stages of the ladder and it's the direction that you're going, right? So therefore, it's the fact that you're not going to do able to do everything just means that you are human. Don't let that be a reason for you not to keep the Torah. Right. Yeah. So therefore, and that's a corollery idea to what we said before is if we understand that all of the Torah is just the Almighty giving to you, right? Then you understand that whatever mitzvah that you do, you're rich. It's any mitzvah is is is worth millions. It's worth anything. Just take one mitzvah. If one person, you know, you see a person start puts onto fillin right for the first time. Wow. That's amazing. And may a person keeps the laws of lush and horror. Wow, that's amazing. You know, so and and and we have to understand that growth is not all or nothing. And it's usually very unhealthy if it is all or nothing. And usually people who try to keep everything at once are the ones who next day will do nothing uh you know and go the other way. Health growth is three steps forward, two steps back. Just like if a person has a child and a child takes his first step and you're so oh wow, look at that little baby. He took that step. Amazing. and then he falls over and you go whack. How could you do that? You didn't. You took a first step. You should be doing it all the time now. No, that's not life isn't that way. It's a you. So each thing you have to appreciate. So if I said to you guys, you know what? Forget about that whole thing about the g the uh the million dollars. I actually that was that's not true. But I do have them. I do have 613 diamonds in my pocket and I'm going to put them on over here and I'm going to ask all of you, you know, you can come and get them and I'll give you 30 seconds. So you go home to your wife or your husband and you say, "You know what? That rabbi was amazing. He put 630 most precious diamonds and he offered them to us to come and get them." So your husband says, "Well, so did you go and get them?" She says, "No, no, no. I'm not stupid. I knew I couldn't get them all. So could I even get them all? I'm not going to be a hypocrite and I'm not going to take I going to take any either. So Do you mean you could have got one or two or three? We'd be multi-millionaires. You know, every mitzvah we have to understand is a precious jewel, right? And therefore, anything that anyone does is is so is is beautiful and it's so we have to understand that when we're um helping someone become religious, it's not all or nothing. So the what you need to focus on what's the next step for this person what is it that they could do next that's for them and that takes a little bit of judgment. Now, first of all, you need to know what are easy mitzvah that if they're ready for mitzvah, they know might not be ready for mitzvah. They are ready for mitzvah. What are some easy mitzvah? So, we're just going to mention a few because we're running out of time, but just to say it might be, you know, you give them a muza and you put them on a muzza on their thing and that's a very nice thing and it looks pretty and it's a kind of a gift as well, right? Or it might be lighting candles. Yeah, try to do beforek usually a good idea, but you know that's uh that's another thing which people could do. or um say the shama it's not all or nothing. I'll just bring this point out. I had I I've been learning I need to get together with them for a while again. But I was learning with a few guys in Manhattan. They were very steeped in secular society, right? I had to keep reminding them I'm a rabbi, right? So please let's let's move on to the next conversation. But these guys I learned with them and I felt like you know I really you know it's hard work hard work. Anyway, one day one of the guys comes to me and he says, "Rabbi, I know you think you're not getting anywhere with us, but he goes, "You know what? I don't come into the office on Saturdays anymore." He says, "And not only that, you know, he went like this." He says, "I don't shave over here anymore." Right? And he says, "Not only that, I say the first line of the schma at night." I said, "And not only that, I've started saying brahas on food." Now it happened to be he was saying hamotzi on everything but you got to start somewhere. You got you got to start somewhere. So I'm just saying it's not all and that's been imagine I said to him yeah but you're not keeping shabasa so like you know what good is that to you is that a good technique for but no you have to understand we had one of the people that came to my mother's house David Goldman he used to come and every year on Rashashana he said I'm going to he said I want to do one thing. So he started off he would politen twice a week and then he stopped going to to to to Shabas to to to work on Shabas then he started to slowly slowly became a full shabas slowly one step at a time he did it and and now we have to understand it's one step at a time now it has to be that a person's ready for that right because they might not be ready for your mitzvah even the one step at a time yet so you have to get so really what we have to do is we have to evaluate and this is really what professor professionals this is what their expertise their training and this is but helps them do but it's what we can all do is you have to to size up a person where are they in life what do they need what going on them what's a a next step for them so that they can get involved in yishkai maybe there student oh you know what have you ever been to Israel oh no never been to Israel you know what there's you know what do students want they want great experiences and and and money right oh I can get you a scholarship for that right you know So, you know, so that might be a good idea for someone who's ever, you know, it's great. You got to go to Israel. I've never been to Israel. Got to see it. It's amazing, you know, or or or whatever. You have to look to see, you know what, maybe to start with, you just are they if they would come for you for Friday for a for a meal on Shabas or something like that, that might be a good next step. Or it might be just that to start with. You know what? They're not really ready for any mitzvah yet, but it's just the relationship like we started off saying. So that's what you that's really what we have to do, right? We have to develop a relationship. It's all in the relationship. Can't emphasize that enough. It's all about caring. If you care enough to keep in touch with people they having people on your radar is the key to Kiraov. If they're not on your radar, you can I can give you all the great techniques, but you'll say, "Well, I just don't know anybody like like that lady did." But you know what? If I paid you a million dollars, you would come back with many people. You should take a day every afterdala or after the Sunday morning who what can I do this week who can I reach out to because we have aaras to try to reach out to people and and that includes our family with family you have to be very careful right that you're not if you're too pushy then it will backfire right you have to you know but but you know if you if you're sensitive and you care and you're in their lives you know you'll look you will see the opportunities they might even come over to you you know and say you know what and I I I'd like to do something but you know learn maybe they'll learn with you for 10 minutes 10 minutes a week you know you something what will you learn something that will be of interest to them pirate others 48 ways to wisdom something you know you could send people a little wisdom on oh I saw this interesting article you know I saw this article on h.com thought you might be like it you send it to them tell let me know what you think or I had an idea you have wisdom for living I wanted to share this with you I used to tell people I'm doing a a a training course to share ideas. Do you mind listening to me and give me evaluation what you think? So I tell them definition of love, the definition of happiness is and they would hear it and so they would, you know, then they give me all the feedback of how terribly badly I gave it over. But okay, but so so I'm just saying so these are all mah we didn't get to the fourth because I'm supposed to start finish at 9. If you have any questions, I'm happy to take but I don't want to go over time. So um if you have any I don't know, you know, take some questions. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> Any questions? Yes. What is the >> that's for next time? Yeah, >> the question. >> Yes. Oh, yes. >> You mentioned that 90% of our brethren are generic. >> No, no, no, no, no. 90% of our brethren are not connected to Torah in meaningful ways. Meaning they might be married to a Jew, but they may not they don't necessarily have any connection. >> Very high rate of >> 75%. Yes. >> So, did the rules that you say apply to some >> That's great. It's in here. have a partner. >> They didn't have the time, you see, but it's in here, right? Every every Jew, right, they're married, intermar, and realize that three out of four are intermar, they're as Jewish as you and I, right? So, we have to understand that, look, especially if it's the mother who married out. So then her children are going to be Jewish as well. So, you're dealing not just with her with, but also with her children. So, you got to be m of these people, right? So the best way, don't try to break up a man into marriage. Don't try that. You'll be out, right? It just doesn't it doesn't go. It just doesn't go, you know? So, and often it's the opposite. If you're very nice to the the non-Jewish partner, they'll think, "Oh, isn't this beautiful? I love it." And then maybe the Jewish person will actually say, "Oh, well, maybe there's something here." You you've got you. that only works by be being nice to both and caring about though and you do and the rest of but there are questions but the the is exactly the same technique this guy is Jewish anything that he does it's not all or nothing whatever he does and I know many people who who are intermarried who who every mitzvah they do is a mitzvah right so you try you know if your goal is to try to get someone shri shabas right you'll fail right your goal is to help them grow if you if you Look at Kira being I'm going to make this person shabas you'll you'll give up because you'll be it's like it it takes time it t it you know and and sometimes we get we have you know it says you know I put in effort and I didn't succeed don't it says don't meaning if you put in enough effort you'll see peross it may not be always with this person but if you keep trying to in in caring ways and sensitive ways, you'll see some good come out of it. But that's with anyone any this this person is unfortunate that you know by and large teenage nishboo they they don't know any better and they don't know. So try to you know try to bring them along as much as you can you know now sometimes you have to know with your children and they say you have a shabas table you got to explain it to them but you know it's better to explain it to them in a context of where you're in in control right and you're showing them the beauty of we have a responsibility to show the beauty and they don't know any better and everything then they go out and say oh maybe it's okay to marry non-Jewish people you know it's like you know it's always better in the in in the home setting to bring these ideas up and that we know what we're doing we're the ones who have what they really need and want rather than to to go out and like uh well, you know, maybe may and you know, maybe that's a good idea. Oh, yes. Yes. >> Okay. I have three questions. >> Three. Wow. Okay. >> Um so, I have a partner in Torah. She's in New Orleans and she's not religious, but she's with anything. Um it was through like your initiative October 7th. So I've been learning with her for for a little time now. But she's I don't know how to introduce my whole idea is just to connect and to go through you know partial now we're just I started sheets around um I don't know any ideas or that's not even my goal. My goal is just to teach her about Judies and I have a goal to like >> so so you know what you remind me of a I heard Ravaka Wim told me once he asked Rav Hutner no Rav Rav Aron Cutler a question on a shar that he gave and you know what Rav Aron Cutler did he started the Shia from the beginning he said the same thing word for word right to answer his question right so why am I reminded of that because what we try to explain here is that when you have someone your goal should be try to have the first thing is develop a relationship with them right second thing is you know so your if you've decided I just want to learn with them right I'm not saying there's not a mitzvah involved in that but your responsibility is to see how could I try to help them move along in some way at some point that should be part of your goal now in order to achieve that goal yeah you're you're for you're in a good position because you're meeting with them every week and you have Torah Right. And and and and learning the partnership is a great thing to learn, right? Because that's has a lot of good stuff. But you if you you got to at some point deal with h you know where what how do you feel about this in a way that's not threatening to them, right? How do you feel about why did you start doing this? You know that's a very good question. You did it from from October 7th. What was it that you started? You know, oh wow. Because you wanted special so you want to learn. That's amazing. You know, do you you know, you have to sort of at some point get to, you know, is there something that you'd like to do? Prayer, you know, do you, you know, do you ever want to pray? Does she, if she believes in God, you know, does she believe in God? You know, >> but you need to find out these things. And the difficulty is being um doing it in a way that's sensitive and is not pushy and is, you know, but you can do it. It's very I mean in those those kind of relationships they usually comes up you know oh do you ever maybe we could learn or when it even when it comes up in in par these things come up so oh did you ever think of doing this you know or maybe we should learn about prayer you know it comes up oh you know he paid you know do you ever I don't know do you do this you ever I never asked you that silly me you know I put the blame on you you know like you know um so you you do have I know people who have asked me this question they I've been learning n with someone for the last 20 years. I said, "Well, what do they where what what do they believe?" I don't know. I never asked them. You got to you got you got to try, you know. You know, so that's your first question. We'll take somebody else's question before your second question, but you know, I don't know if I'm I'm Yeah, we could we could speak more about it if you like, but yeah, go ahead. important. Why is so universal? Because people know for example even the most secular people know even the know the law is shall not be translating to them there are different for different things you know from Israelis afterur you know during October 7 after October 7th those stories taken on one particular you know there and one thing to know that is not that threatening it's a little more universal and If you're feeling you're not reaching them during prayer, you know, or trying that just a suggestion. Um, >> listen, you sound very you're very passionate about it and it probably be good for you that you're that you feel it. So, if when you feel something strongly, it's often a good thing to do. It could be, you know, it could be that some people do relate to that. I don't know if most people Yeah, Lord is my shepherd is a very well-known one, but I'm not sure how wellk known the other ones are to most people out there today. But it's still if you if you connect to it there are many there's not onesizefits-all there are many different approaches I I do normally and para I recommend to people commonly um or to go or to pray you know you can you know you have to what is prayer about there are beautiful books and about prayer just you know even even to get someone to pray in English that's one of the one of the easy mitzvah you know pray in English to every night before you go to sleep and say God created the universe you know, please help me with my with this, this, and this. Thank you. You fulfill the mitzvah from the Torah of prayer. So, that's a beautiful thing to do. So, I'm just saying that listen, each person has to you have to know and and you have to be like I I'm not a big believer in take one thing for everyone, right? I don't think that I think usually what's that >> suggestion? >> No, I'm saying it might be good very good for for certain people like a certain Israelis and so forth. That might be great and but uh you got to you have to think with this particular person. What do you think would be the best thing for them? >> Yes, you can do you can Yes. >> Right. It it could be. But all the point that I'm making Yeah. is it could be and if they relate to it and if it's Israeli like you said and they and they Yeah. But it could be if they don't know how to read Hebrew and they don't know what it is, you're better off saying, you know what, do you believe in, you know, you know, I'll pray for you. Yeah. And you know what, Hashem will also respond to your prayers if you prayed, you know, and then, you know, and if you explain to someone what prayer is and how that can make a difference, then that could help them in a in in a way that they will relate to. They might it could be your idea is great. I'm not I'm not trying to take it away from you that but I'm just saying that you you just got to like be able to evaluate each person individually whether this will work for them or not. But I do think it's true when people are in in you know the situation in Israel it's a good it's a great way in to get people to do something because everybody feels something. The simplest way is pray you know will you pray I'm going to give you the name of a person in a soldier in Israel. Will you pray for this person every day? you know, we're we're under, you know, and they they'll do that. I mean, most people will do that, you know. So, could you say, well, would you say this to Helm? Maybe. I don't know if I I'm just careful about if they're going to really connect to it, but if you feel that you know people that will, then great. Yes. Next. >> Can I ask? >> Yes. Okay. Go ahead. >> It was a very good idea. Um so it happened twice that I invited like co-workers over to my house forum the one for sukus and by conversation it turned out that they were misguire but not through an orthodox conversion >> right >> so right now I work with somebody and they they converted but not through orthodox we just we talked about it and but he's like he's very interested so like where does that put me >> right and he's married >> can you repeat the questions >> no if someone yes if someone is uh uh converted but they converted with a non-orthodox conversion. Where does that put me in my relationship with them? Um I mean look bottom the simplest understanding is just that that simplest is most probably they're not Jewish, right? You know the David Cohen Puskin that a conservative conversion is considered suffic which makes it much more complicated. Um but I'm not sure if he's you know even even today I don't know I don't know if that's mainstream. I I don't know if that everybody agrees with that, you know, but um he did say that what to me one time which I was uh surprised to hear, but that's what he felt. But so I guess it's a little bit conditional on that. But the the the bottom, you know, I would say, yeah, that overall if we have um in our list of priorities, somebody who had a conversion that was not um Orthodox is, you know, most probably not Jewish and not, you know, to the time and effort it's going to take to get them unless they if they express incredible interest and and they really want to become, you know, but it's it's complicated because what you're you're sort of invalidating their Jewishness if you're going to start start getting into, you know, you really should have a we don't have an obligation if they're not Jewish to make them Jewish, right? So, you know, I I I don't I wouldn't personally put a tremendous amount of time and effort into trying to help that person become more uh observant and Jewishly aware um because of that. >> Yeah. So what happens if you invite somebody to a table and it turns out to like >> don't kick them out in the middle of the meal. >> Don't kick them out in the middle of the meal. >> No, I wouldn't. I mean, listen, you got to everything. You have to be, you know, sensitive. You know, Beno, there's nothing wrong with invirating someone to you if they're not Jewish on Chabas, right? But, you know, I I just wouldn't put it as a priority anymore. But you're right, there's a sensitivity that if they're going to feel like, oh, you dumped them because they and they know that you they told you that their mothers and you went and your face dropped when they told you and you you know, like, you know, so you just you can't get, do you understand what I'm saying? can't make the that's like that's called midos tovos right don't >> you invite them >> I would not invite them no I I would not invite somebody who's not Jew personally I wouldn't I wouldn't but unless I feel it's going to be it's going to be I'm going to create a so then maybe I'd invite them down the line you know and then it'll get less frequent you know but you know unless they're they're very close friends they want to come you don't mind that's your business you know but in terms of like your obligation as a in terms Kiraov there isn't really you know and that's why I asked before are they in are they is one of the spouses Jewish you know if there is then then uh you have to betray me macar anyway >> why why is that different than somebody who is interested in becoming a gear somebody's interested in converting >> would you would you go and help the person so if this person had a not a uh a valid conversion and they're obviously coming to you because they're interested interested. >> They did have they didn't have a valid conversion. >> They did not have a valid conversion, but that's only because of a lack of knowledge. So, it's not because they're not interested. So, why are they different than somebody who is interested in becoming a convert? >> Well, the question the question is maybe this person not interested in becoming a convert. This person is quite satisfied with his or her conversion the way he or she is. If you see that the person is really cares and wants to go to the next step, that is different. You know, so then listen, we you know that you know even for a person who wants to convert you there's some amount of discouragement so forth but that's only to make sure that they're sincere right once they converted. So there's an extra mitzvah to love them more than any than a one of the mitzvah to it's an incredible thing a person comes to gurus it's an amazing amazing thing it's wow look what they did you know but uh so you know if they're really saying I want to become more involved at some point yes and maybe yeah maybe in in that circumstance you could have them back and but you try to direct them to the right people but you know my experience from this we we have a lot of this cuz A lot of people learning one-on-one, we have this question all the time, right? So, we we generally find out if a person wants to learn, we if they unless there's exceptional reasons. Um but there sometimes a person like you know is is so into it and they're really going in the right they're not in a garish program but they really some but usually I we find that if they're not um if it's not an or conversion we we we we don't that we've got enough to handle with 90% of the Jewish people that are Jewish that we have to try to deal with than somebody who who knows whether they're going to really make it or they're not going to really make it. It's not it's a lesser uh responsibility. >> Yeah. people have such ingrained beliefs like oh Judaism is chauvinistic or this type of thing and like you explain to them actually whatever like it's not like they already like have their like thought process from the whole >> it's in here it's all in here they only gave me an hour and a half you know but you're right you're you have to be so there's two parts to that one is what we said at the start which is the non-judgmentalism that they feel Judaism is judgmental right that you're looking down on They're looking for it. They're looking to try it because they want to like in a certain way if they can show that Judaism is really there's something wrong with it and I can stay away from it. So you you you have to be the most accepting, caring, good friend that shows them that that you are you know you're a you you don't represent that you represent the opposite. That's number one. But then you have to also understand how to explain that you know Judaism concept of you know women's role which we we didn't get to right but it's very simple that you know to understand that you know Judaism says that women are on a you know really you know you know you have no way always used to say that you know if you have the goals of Judaism the sh mitzvah to meet the six commitments are the same for men and women right so you know and and raviak of weineberg used to say that uh that an asa kgdo was is a woman she's fate They're opposite. They're faith connected. They're facing each other. They're equal and they're opposite. It's an equal opposite relation. So, so they say in the name of Shamsh is really famous for the for saying that the fact that women have less mitzvah means that they are on a higher level, right? Because they so the marshall that they often give is that if you have a you take a person to a trainer and the trainer says to this person, you need to do a 100red press ups every day and this person said, you need to do 10. So, who's in better shape? Right? You the one who doesn't need so much. The one who needs to do more exercise is in a worse shape needs like the one who needs less. So, so therefore a woman doesn't need to have as many mitzvah as men do to be on to get to the same point. And that is is you can is is um what's the word? Embellished is uh is a better word um by the fact that for example that the the Zoha says that a woman's fillain are in her body. So therefore she doesn't need it. We understand from if you know sitsus that the men were the ones who were involved in the in in the the moraglin and they went lassur they went to to to uh how do you translate that lassur to >> to to spy out the and yeah and because they were over on low suru so now they need sits so that they should shouldn't men needed it women weren't involved in that so they don't need the mitzvah sits so they don't they don't need it so you see that there are many mitzvah that women don't need they don't need to have the minion the way men women are all connected. They don't know where to keep up the way men do. Men men of God. So I I always say that, you know, men, you know, in the mitzvah of which is one of the six constant mitzvah, it's so so so this is considered like right is is considered minus minus is minus which means um um >> heresy. Heresy is from gver. This place is in the bigger big enough for me and God. So it's ego and and and ty, right? So let's just think about it. Who has a bigger ego? Men or women? Is there is that there's male ego or female? Male ego. Watch out for male ego. Right? So men have a bit of more women. Uh tither as an end in itself. Who has a bigger problem with that? Men or women? Come on guys. We know, you know, who's more likely to make, you know, we know where men have a much bigger problem with that. So, you see that men have bigger issues. They need more mitzvah to get over their issues. That's the reality. Now, we we're happy that we have more mitzvah. So, therefore, we so we're very happy about that, you know, but women, they don't have as many mitzvah, but they maybe in accordance with the will of the creator of the universe. So you can sh and you see that and this is this is throughout the Torah that Moshe got it wrong and the got it right and and Amram got it right wrong and Mirim got it right and and and and Yakov didn't understand didn't understand what Riff understood about Isa I mean it's all over the place the women were not involved the women were involved in the in the w so it's a legacy like Judaism is is is basically saying women are like sedas in in the school of nashim kas we were taken out of it in the school of nash We're going to we're going to we're going to be the final gula. So there's you know it's like it's obvious it's obvious there are higher there are more emotionally and spiritually mature and we got a lot of work to do. So when you explain that to people, it helps. But you, you know, we have to understand it ourselves. But okay, but but but yes, you're right. We we have to Yeah. Yes. >> I have two questions. I'm only gonna ask one this time. >> Okay. >> Um just a follow question. >> Didn't stop the women asking a lot of questions, but okay. Go. >> You're a man. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. >> If somebody is in front of you and their either their Garris wasn't a good Garris. >> Yeah. or if they think that they're Jewish but it's only their father that they're not actually Jewish. How do you deal with that? Do you tell them like and the ramifications of that? >> Yes. Yes. You you this two there are two questions. So you got two questions in because those are two separate question. >> So if someone has a garist and it's not a good garist and they think they're Jewish, you have a responsibility to tell them. Yes. It's a very sensitive We had lots of people in our programs where that was the case and you have the responsibility to in you know to let them know. Sure. um to let them know that they're that you know that they that it's technically speaking you have to be very they're not technically Jewish because of this but that you can help we can you can help them and so and so forth but you do have to let them know because otherwise they're going to go through and they're Jewish and that's not good in terms of somebody who's has a Jewish father so of Puscans that um you can a person who has a Jewish father has has you are allowed to encourage and help them become a a g more than any than a regular person because they they have some kind of Jewish I forget what the expression that that was used but it's a connection it's good word okay thank you that that'll >> I'm going to dra whoever wants whatever wants who wants to stay for questions they're welcome to stay for questions or anybody who wants to go and dar thank you so much thank you very much thank