Israel Tourism Update with Nachum and Chad Martin on Today's JM in the AM

JMA on a Thursday and we've promised you uh somebody to speak about what's happening regarding tourism to Israel and in fact Chad Martin is with us live via telephone. He's director of the Northeast region for the Ministry of Tourism of the State of Israel and many of you may have heard their latest announcement that certain airlines are expanding their North American connectivity to Israel amid renewed travel demand. We'll find out just how robust that expansion is. Chad Martin, a pleasure to welcome you to JM in the AM. >> It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Now, >> uh, you know, we get so many conflicting report. I was in Israel last week and I'm on the ground there and people are lamenting, you know, the the the on the front lines, hotel operators, taxi cab drivers lamenting that nobody's around. And then of course when you're on this side of the world and try to purchase a plane ticket to Israel, uh even if it's for November, as I was discussing earlier in the show, which is pretty far in advance for right now for this time of year, you can't even get a ticket. That's how much in demand travel is. So which is it? Are we suffering from a terrible uh drought when it comes to tourism from North America, or is tourism as robust as we would like it to be? Um well I I guess I can give you the short answer to both which is yes and the longer answer uh which is you know this is kind of the dichotomy we dealt with since since the the the horrific attacks of October the 7th uh which is that while we have had a a red reduction in our airlift capacity number of seats of any plane going to Israel whether non-stop or not uh a substantial one you know over 60% we actually haven't seen seen that demand drop in in any kind of correlating fashion. So throughout this entire uh the this batch of conflicts uh we've seen carriers try to come back because they can see the demand and then of course you know another conflict spring up. So, where we are right now, um, is that we we're in sort of an an unknown period where people are testing out the waters and trying to bring back those flights, but we've got a lot more people that want flights than can get them, but not nearly enough people getting to Israel because we for that same reason, you know. So, that is our biggest challenge. they just can't seem to keep flights um you know confirmed, opened up and and flying to Israel without another uh military, you know, we could call it a hiccup or just an actual um out allout conflict or war. Um and and that has really frustrated, I think, a lot of your listeners and and I' I've worked with basically every community going to Israel and I hear all the time here uh in especially across the Northeast how frustrating it is to try to get there. I also hear from my colleagues I've worked with for 20 years that they're not getting enough customers either uh in Israel. So I mean when it comes and when it comes to that when it comes to that point of the frustration it's essentially availability and money right many as you described there's a shortage I guess we can call it of seats or space to get to Israel on these planes and those who are lucky enough to you know to find uh to get a reservation so to speak they may be paying I don't know double or triple what they used to play pay in the quote unquote good old days. Uh, and th those are the two major factors, I guess. Right. >> Um, you can I I had an experience where I I had one of my staff going uh going to Israel and I was trying to get a ticket on LL just to see how much it would be and the flights were so full a coach seat was over $7,000. Now, I'll also say a lot of people are quick to blame LL. Let's be clear, and I don't I don't want to be in the middle of everything here. I'm not going to speak to whether or not any airline should be charging that amount, but the reason why isn't just this pure greed picture that I sometimes hear from frustrated people. Um I I was in a panel with uh Simon Newton Smith who's the the North American VP um of LA and he mentioned and this is probably around um 2024 you know so this has been the same case though the whole time he said we got an extra plane somehow was spared by a canceled flight or something else and we added a departure to JFK for one night >> and he's like how long do you think it took to book up >> immediately? >> Three minutes. Three minutes and it booked up. So, and and and you know, I think that in behind closed doors, while it is incredibly profitable, long-term, it's not beneficial for a brand or anybody else to be charging this much money. What do you do when you only have one seat left? You know, you sell it for $1,500 and then you have no seats left. >> Yeah. Well, again, not to get into not to get into the weeds of the airline industry, but what you're describing is so common where, you know, prices are normal because there is a uh there's a um a lag in people making reservations for any flight, whether it's Israel or anywhere else. And depending on when you're uh you know, trying to make that reservation, people know this all the time, even flying here domestically, people know the further in advance you book, the chances are it's going to be a much much uh cheaper flight or you'll have much many more options. And obviously in the example you just described, that's not the case. In fact, last week I was shocked by the plane that I was on, the type of plane I was on to go from JFK to Tel Aviv. And one of the flight attendants said to me that they are so desperate for planes because they're adding so meaning lal that they're adding so many flights that they're they don't even have enough Dreamlininers to keep bringing back and forth to do the regular routes. So >> look, I again I think you're right that it that it's not really an airline problem. But here's the real frustration. Chad Martin is with us, Ministry of Tourism. Here's the real frustration for those old-timers like me. We don't remember a time like this where airlines would in fact pull out for months and now years at a time from the Tel Aviv New York City route. And on top of that, we don't remember a time when alal would actually discourage or cancel travel, which they did, of course, February, March, you know, it was very difficult to get in and out of Israel at that time. People before Passover, etc. It was a very, very difficult time. We just don't remember that. There have been many conflicts. I could list for you all the dangerous times in Israel that there were recommendations to stay away and not travel. and the airlines still maintained a regularity of flights. Why are we in this era now in these three four years where the nonlal airlines are completely cancelled and rarely come back maybe for you know a spurt at a time and lal itself even you know and even lal during some of the points of this conflict actually just cancelled all of their service. What is the difference between this era and the other eras? >> You know, tourism people are we're we're accustomed to having positive conversations cuz tourism is a positive subject. The stark reality is this is an unprecedented conflict. I mean, that's really the answer. If you remember 2014, it was around July, August that um the US canceled for one day. But the US canceled for one day. >> Correct. >> One day. And it was uproar, you know. It was it was uproar. Mayor Bloomberg, I think it was from at that point, former mayor Bloomberg got on a on an allow flight and flew symbolically to Israel, but that's because one or two miss I think there was one near miss near Bengurian and and it made them stop. We've had multiple, you know, I I remember even, you know, one of the I think it was 2024. Don't I'm so blurry on how long we've had this conflict, so don't quote me on the date. Um, but we had flights coming back. It was actually 2025. February 2025, we had another case where the airlines were coming back. When we talk about US carriers, it's not that some are coming back. The main US carriers come back every time. Delta and United are very committed to the market. American has always been less committed to the market, you know, ever since they they merged with US uh US Air and and and canceled the Philadelphia flight, right? >> You know, but um I I was speaking with one of the biggest air wholesalers. He said, "Look, the flights are coming back." And I'm like, you know, but the it just seems very uncomfortable to me that they're lobbing these rockets. And and I don't like to be right in those kinds of cases, but like it was like a countdown. We had all these relaunch events and trying to get the market going. And in midappril we have autouti missile come and then in in June we have you know the ballistic missiles from from Iran. We we had >> and again the more important the more important part of your point is that the airport was a major target. That's the more important part of your point >> because it was it was 2014 and the majority of things were happening you know in the southwestern portion of Israel near Gaza. I guess that was the reason we flew. I mean, we flew multiple times that summer of 2014. But if but you're right, if that that legitimately I finally have some type of legitimate explanation that we are in an unprecedented conflict because the airport has been a major target which was not the case in most of the prior conflicts. Would that be a good >> add one thing to that? Um and just say that it's also the capability. uh kamas had minimal capability to reach Bengurian during 2014. It was our main adversary. Kazba in 2006 had minimal of any capability to reach Bengurian. Um that not that they weren't aiming for it all these other times. And then in this war, every single player had the capability uh if if any of our defense systems failed to reach Bengarian. So it's a totally different calculus for the airlines. >> Look, we had a red alert in 2014 that we were part of in Bengurion airport. So I know exactly what you mean. I mean, at that time it was few and far between, but it did happen. And now obviously the potential is much greater. Chad Martin's with us. He's right. He's director of Northeast for the Ministry of Tourism um for the state of Israel. What's he right about? He's right that we need to talk about the positive things. And there is a major major story this week, and I really do consider this major. It'll help with competition. It should help with pricing. It'll certainly help with scheduling and timets. and that is that both Delta and um and um United Airlines are going to be resuming regular service. Delta will resume daily non-stop service between JFK and Ben Gri that happens on September the 6th. United Airlines twice daily non-stop service from Newark beginning on September the 8th. For those of you who know the calendar as well as we do here, that's obviously the week of Russia Shana could be very very helpful. Has this roll out been smooth? Are people actually booking flights for the 6th and beyond? >> Uh the answer is yes. They're they're live in the system and I' I've spoken with a lot of uh travel advisors even some of those that I think your your listeners work with and they've said uh we see them. We we can see um a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. Um, I just want to make sure that that people understand the the difference we're really talking about in capacity here. And and and to be clear, I'll say that with a caveat until we have all the connecting carriers back, it's not full capacity. But for non-stop air, this is this is almost unprecedented except for the except for the recovery last year, right? So Delta and United will relaunch within about a day of one another, September 6th and September 8th, respectively. And that will add 21 non-stop weekly flights. Um because they they fly in Shabbat, but you know the the Israeli carriers do not. Right. >> Um 21. Right now we have about 54. So that's already you know as 20%. >> It's it's a 50% increase. Yeah. >> Right. Right. And then Israining the frey rejoining because I I know you have been flying to Israel as long longer than I have and I remember selling the Isra flight back in 2008 before before the fuel uh the fuel spiked but they're coming back October 19th. You know, first time in in well over a decade that they're flying three Israeli carriers for the first time. >> What is that one? Is that that's one flight a day or or less regular than that? >> They bought two uh A330s. They've reoutfitted them. They have six flights a week. >> Uhhuh. Got it. >> So, it's it's like our similar volume to our Kia. >> Um, you know, and uh it's it adds capacity even if you aren't the one flying it. Remember that we're looking for seats here. >> Um, there are people that take, you know, many other carriers regular, you know, right now that will book that carrier and open up capacity for other people. >> Do you see reviews? Yeah, I'm going to I'm curious if you see reviews on the Archa. You know, people are always skeptical. They just came back and they they impression is not as professional as some of the larger airlines. Have you gotten good reviews on them so far? >> I would say this. Um I would say that our Kia is not meant to be the same product that you're used to with with the legacy carrier, right? >> Um but it's a very necessary product that we have and we're very happy to have them. I think that most of the time I get a balanced answer that people say, "Well, it wasn't so and so and so in comparison largely to allow because that's all who's flying right now." >> Well, we got there. >> However, yeah, I got a better deal and I got a seat and I was able to get out. I'm like, well, you you have to take those together. Are we better with more non-stop carriers? Yes. Especially Israeli ones cuz like you said, they don't cancel, right? >> You know, once we get an Israeli carrier for like that's permanent capacity versus a US carrier. >> Which connectors were you referring to? give me an example or two of a key connector that needs to come back to expand this even further. >> Okay, set set politics aside. Uh I think most of your listeners know Turkish Airlines was the second biggest barrier out of Tel Aviv before the war. >> Um and um I'm not going to put any words in anyone's mouth of Turkish. I have friends that work there. We were in industry. Um >> well, they were they were they were amazing for a lot of a lot of people in this audience would use them. They were amazing at that time. They they were amazing and and for many years, you know, we remember better warmer times with Turkey that this never would have been an issue. But it's it's also a major major supplier not just to Israel, but they're a gateway. You know, one of the models that was kind of duplicated by the Amiradis was the Turkish model of a national carrier that is so strong, >> right? Um, and if we don't get that capacity back now, now the good news for your listeners, a lot of them aren't taking that flight in the sort of incentive for all these US carriers to add more capacity more and more and more is that they don't have that competition, >> right? >> You know, so if you want more non-stop flights, it's not bad for you. But if you're like me and you want more tourists, it is bad for me. The fill that I get, but and and there were other hubs, right? Poland and Russia. I mean, there were Germany. And there are other hubs that actually do service the the one-stop, you know, layover passenger on the way to Israel. Numerous and those are coming back. Some are a lot is there is going right now. I'm not saying that we don't have any connecting carriers, but I'm saying that we still have, you know, there's about a million seats of capacity per year that could have flown to Tel Aviv. That's a lot. It's a lot of downward pressure on pricing. You forget about just raw capacity. that Turkish wood was the one that gave economic prices, you know, economy prices to Christian groups coming and and others that kept th them out of the non-stop segment that a lot of other people want to book. >> Chad Martin, and by the way, especially during holiday time because people took it there was a shortage of seats. I'm talking about during regular times, there was a shortage of seats during holiday time and obviously, you know, things got very expensive. So, a lot of people would utilize Turkey and some of the other uh stopovers as we pointed out that we mentioned earlier in order to accommodate their families. You know, you're taking larger groups of people during the holiday time, etc. Chad Martin's with us, director of the Northeast Region for the Ministry of Tourism. You have an interesting capacity. See, I don't know if you know if all these are fall under your responsibilities, but in addition to, you know, your expertise when it comes to following the airlines, I'm sure you're in touch with hotel operators in Israel all the time, uh, in the different cities and and the different spas and all the traditional tourist locations to see what's going on. But in addition to that, you're always trying to keep Israel at the forefront here. It's sort of like what we do, right? We we we've been accused of being a onetrick pony at this point in my career. all about Israel, all about aliyah, all about tourism. But that's what you but you have a responsibility to do the same thing, and that is to really energize America, not just Jews, but the United States, in your case, the Northeast region, and obviously the Jewish community in those areas, uh, in that area, um, to, you know, to want to be exposed to Israel, to be enthusiastic about planning a trip there, etc. Have those efforts slowed down over the last three years or do the ad campaigns and all the you know the the retail selling that you doing of Israel as a product have they continued strong over the last three years? >> Um they they've continued very strong as as as strong as we can keep them. you know, we've had I I may have lost count of this one. We had eight times when the with the US carriers pulled out and when we've gone back into uh you know, more of a difficult time of of retracting a little bit, but uh every seven times we have now come back and with full force and tried to get everyone booking their travel. Um we also have um of course our campaign I am Israel. I encourage everyone to look it up on our our YouTube channel um the Israel Tourism YouTube channel. Uh it's it's a really inspiring campaign and and I'll tell you that yes, there is a more Jewish focused uh version of the video myself. Every all three of them give me the chills like remind me of what that first trip I took, you know, to Israel. I was 16 and and just really connecting with the people, hearing Hebrew and connecting with the our our um you know, both our biblical and and historical connection to Israel um in a special way and and we're really proud of it. Um I think we've done a great job of doing it. And you ask yourself, you know, okay, but we can't even book a flight right now. That's an interesting point. I'll make two points to you about that. One, um in tourism, we sell the future. I say that all the time. I'm not asking anyone to book Get on a Plane today. But I am saying I want your next trip closer and it doesn't get closer by me being quiet. It it certainly does not do that. Will it guaranteed come sooner? We don't know. We launched this in June. We didn't know whether or not there would be another war or there's a bit of faith in these types of campaigns because we're the government and we're the ones that can have that faith and do it because no one else can make that kind of investment. But someone needs to. And tourism is a light in the darkness. You talk about all the negativity around tourism. It's really hard to argue with a with a beautiful true picture of someone connecting at the Western Wall or you know even on the beach in Tel Aviv. It doesn't look like a war zone to you and it it produces that sort of internal conflict that uh undercuts certainty. Um you know number two uh I I would say that we we really always always need to push our product because I think that doing nothing has has never gotten us anywhere, >> right? You know, I know that melds with number one because I got too passionate about it, but really those are the two things. We're always selling the future and we we really do need to keep people thinking about tourism whenever it's got to be relentless. I mean, it may be an an inappropriate word when it comes to this, but it's got to be relentless. We just have to keep pounding away. And when people finally do wake up and try to decide where to vacation, where to go, what's meaningful to them and their family, uh, like you experienced at the age of 16. Now, I understand why you work for the Israeli government because you were turned on to Israel at a very early age. And I bet you I'm not wrong on that. Uh, so, you know, it's got to be relented. It's got to be complete and to total reminders to everybody in the United States and certainly here in this area of the country that Israel is a very, very important option, a realistic option. And if that message continues to go through, then when times become easier to travel, hopefully that's exactly what will happen. More and more people will go and more and more groups will pick up on their dream to get over there. The um why is it always San Francisco, by the way, that that seems to be the location that's always um in the news regarding a uh Tel a Viv to the United States route. Is it because of the uh Silicon Valley and the you know connection businesswise that allows for you know San Francisco to be among the top routes um with the potential to come back? Is is is that the reason? >> Uh to a degree uh I would say first of all let me say that as much as I do know a lot of the airlines and know more than your average person on airline decision-m I'm not a representative of the airlines so I I don't make those choices. Um, but I will say that the first of all the potential budget, the front of the plane is a lot of times the the primary profitability on a plane. You fill in the back of the plane uh with a baseline and you make your profit in the front. There's a lot of profit in San Francisco. Um, I don't know if there's the volume in San Francisco, but the profitability of the local market traveling is quite high. >> The more expensive seats sell. That's right. >> Right. And LL doesn't want us. Part of the LL even Boston decision was the easy connection with JetBlue way back when when they were with JetBlue. >> Um and you know so they they have that partnership also with Delta. So um they're competing over the San Francisco space with those two tech hubs and United is extremely strong in San Francisco and they don't want you know LL doesn't want to lose their people. United wants to keep hold of those really like Israel is very lucrative. The tickets are never cheap on a non-stop to Israel. So it's a lucrative market to be in and it's United's hub. So, um, they're they reactively are coming back March 28th, uh, to San Francisco. The real question is, does that play come back if LL doesn't launch October 25th? There is a seessaw battle that happens with non-stops. Miami, we've had it before, you know, outside of New York. Uh, it's it's very competitive. >> I think Chicago also, they had a an LL United battle at one time if I'm not mistaken. >> They did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. United won that one. Um, but >> well, there's a reason why they won. They basically own Chicago. So, you know, that's it's very helpful. I mean, look, Newark Newark and Chicago is natural for uh United, but they have Washington also, right? Don't they do a direct flight from Washington? Am I right about that? >> They have a non-stop from Dallas. That's right. >> So, they're three days a week. >> People don't realize how strong an airline they are. And I and they're a formidable I don't know opponent or colleague of LL to say the least. And that's what another reason and now I get it. By the way, how many people in the Orthodox world do I know that were, you know, loyal united people and, you know, had no choice but to switch over to Lal? They I don't even know if they understand. And I I get there's a lot of factors that we don't know. >> Everyone's always insight. >> You could make the argument that they're the only competitor with correct in the US. And >> and that's why it was such a mistake for them to leave the market. I again there are other factors that we don't get. People talk about insurance and other stuff and obviously safety is important. We know that. But it it it seems like such a terrible drastic mistake for them to have left the market to the degree they did. >> So it I I wouldn't say a mistake necessarily from where I sit because I met with the route planners at United. There was no route planner that didn't want to be in Israel. Also recall last year July 21, you know, not even a full month after the end of the Iran war who came back with two flights a day. United did. They feel the same way you do, by the way. the airlines know about the attrition rate that that particularly your listeners a lot of people were booking LL refundable flights and also booking United saying well if the flight goes I'll go on United right they know the trauma to their loyalty and they don't want to lose that it's why even right now you could say like what made them come back and there's two things that made people come back a really firm end of hostilities like we had um like we had October 10th last year uh thank god with all of our with all of our hostages living hostages coming home. Um that helped the recovery and time it just looks now like you know what if it's going to stay this way we're going to try to launch a flight that's very risky for an airline. They don't know that this conflict is over and yet they're they're putting a you know over hund00 million plane on the route for the fall a very busy travel time uh because they they need to bring they need the loyalty and they need the profitability of that flight. >> So it's not exactly that way that that I that they would see it. They're coming back very aggressively just as they did last year. You've been an amazing sounding board for my frustrations and I know that a lot of people out there feel no I don't I don't think our second on air conversation is going to be like this one. I think it'll be somewhat different to say the least. But a lot of people have had the same pent up you know just uncertainty like when you don't know a reason or you don't understand you know the uh the value behind an airline's reason for doing something it gets frustrating you know. So, just uh you certainly have been able to shed some light on this, which we greatly appreciate. And you know, I I speak to the hotel operators. I'm sure you speak to a million more of them than I do. >> Uh they're trying to increase their Israeli tourism. They've been trying to do this for the last two years for obvious reasons. You know, the local tourism is is what's saving some of these establishments. Um I mean, are hotels in danger of closing in Israel? Like, how would you describe their situation at the present time? I mean, I I' I'd asked you. I'm a former hotel year. So, uh, what city? I'd ask you how much time you got. You know what city? What city were you in Tel Aviv? >> Uh, Jerusalem. Jerusalem. Um, I think you're familiar with the Embal Hotel in Jerusalem. >> Have we met? Have we met? Have we met before? >> I think maybe once in passing. Um, I was there when Alex Herman was there. It might have been just a handshake. >> I actually The last time I saw Alex was a few months ago at the inbball. That's pretty funny. >> Yeah. Yeah. The tourism is a close-knit community. We we all kind of know each other. >> Oh, so you you know Joanne for sure. >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. Joanne from before the inbball. Everybody knew Joanne at the inbball. Yeah. I was at two Israeli tour operators before that. At 20 years is a long time to work in an industry. So >> um Yes. And um and by the way, that's not an endorsement or recommendation. I also say we have many wonderful hotels in Jerusalem. I just happen to work at one of them. >> Yeah. We have many wonderful ones, but they happen to be the our hub when we're in when we're in the Holy Land, >> as you know. >> We were there. We were there last week. They're amazing. >> Yeah. And and um >> and how they can keep off of that. >> Yeah. How they can how No, I get that. But how they can keep up and it's not just them, you know, I was recently in a hotel in Tel Aviv also. They keep up everything, all their services, all their st not all their staff, but they manage the staff very well in terms of, you know, who's working when during these lean times. And and certainly their food service is up to par. Like, it really is amazing that they could take they could take all this adversity and really respond to it. >> So, I'll I'll give you some light in in a little bit of I don't want to say darkness, but but some some of the uh sad sides to this. So, for one, Israelis aren't with the reduction in capacity. I always remind everyone that wants a flight, I'm like, you know, there's two people flying between uh every place. You know, when you want to launch a flight to Israel non-stop, you need an Israeli market >> that will book that flight here, >> right? >> Yes. Uh the Israelis are great at they they've stayed in Israel. Um they've learned to really enjoy the luxury of those hotels. That's not new, by the way. That was that was the last even 15 years, Israelis more and more would would do stations in Israel. But now with the hostility abroad, the lack of capacity um to fly to particularly the United States, you know, they've got a lot of flights to Europe with their smaller carriers, but they still are largely staying home more than ever before and Israelis travel uh far more than Americans. Um and so that has kept the hotel lights on largely. I'm painting very broad strokes. Why? because there's a divergence in the hotel market. On one hand, you have a sizable luxury market that largely serves the Jewish market in the US, not only um but the high-end market in the US. Um and those are hotels even sort of your damn panoramas, you know, those those uh moving forward, they target more of a the Jewish demographic. Uh then you've got what we call tourist class and first class hotels. That is more we call maybe a pilgrim or or a group market. And so to say that hotels are doing great, I can't say that. Um I have less contact because there's so much volume with with the pilgrim market that they're some of them are struggling because it's hard to get groups into Israel. Uh even the US carriers aren't selling group flights a lot of time because they can sell an individual ticket for such a high price. So there's a lot of trauma there that doesn't get recognized. On the other hand, because Israel really is a premium destination and we are um there's 7,770 hotel rooms under construction right now um that by uh 2030. So you want to know why they're keeping up? They know they have to keep up because there is a big competition coming. There's a lot of competition coming and they have a market that there's they're selling to. It's also that you know we we do have a even though we are you know 40% down 30 depending on how you splice the the airlift um picture non-stop to connecting the people that are traveling are often traveling to the luxury market. So that's tough. The dark side of this is the fact that we have 8,000 guides in Israel many of which have had to find new work. We have tour operators that you know the Israeli public is not booking through a tour operator to book their hotel um or even booking a guide. So, I'm not saying they have nothing, but a lot of them have had to >> and cab drivers. Cab drivers, bus drivers, restaurant owners. >> Yeah. >> A lot of people >> lot of people in the system. Lot Yeah, exactly. A lot of people in the system. But I like what you said in the middle of of your answer just now. I like the fact that you are convinced and you're right that down the road there's going to be a lot of competition, a lot of movement. you know, we are a we we here on a on a daily basis do everything we can to try to convince people to make the uh North American corridor to Israel as active as possible tourism wise and aliyah wise. And I think you're right, Chad Martin, and this is really the message we should wrap up with as we especially as we start the brand new year. There is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel and there's a lot of hope. And one of these years, hopefully it'll be 5787, but one of these years is going to be like 5782 was a banner year for tourism and a record-breaking year for tourism. >> Your your lips to Hashem's ears. You know, uh I you know, as Ratm, that's where we will be. Uh I'll also say, you know, since you've got a lot of listeners tuning in, uh tourism isn't just an industry, it's also a cause. If we hope to change the way people think about Israel, we need to get people to Israel. And let me say with that caveat, it doesn't mean we need to just get leaders to Israel, which a lot of nonprofits are focused on. Uh if you bring a pastor and he you don't ask them to bring their church, that's a huge loss. >> You know, if you bring a nonprofit and say say nice things about Israel, say nice things about Israel hasn't really worked. What has worked is getting people to go there. And I'm not saying to pay for them to go. I'm saying, you know, be an advocate for people to visit. You don't know what nudge is going to push them over the edge to make that trip. And um I I am sure that your listeners interact with people that just through their interactions with them have a different view of Israel and be more likely to come and visit. We need their lived truth here. They go on that trip, they come back, they have a different voice to the US public. They are an ambassador for the country. >> 100%. The ripple the ripple effect is amazing. 100%. And and we do agree with you every single day. We we try to be as relentless as possible with this message and hopefully in the new year we'll have great success with it. Chad Martin, he's director of the Northeast region for the Ministry of Tourism. And how do you like that folks? We discover in the middle of the interview that we've actually met at some point in the past. Chad, a shata to you. Thanks for I really appreciate the conversation. Mazalto, I guess I'll say mazalto. Why not? Because Delta and United, it seems, will be at somewhat full strength beginning on September the 6th. And hopefully that will bode well for my prediction of a record-breaking year of tourism ahead. So, please God, >> my last word, we'll have 50 new flights by uh March of 2027. That's what's on the list. 50 new non-stop weekly flights. >> And that's a f that's a 50, >> right? >> That be And what do we have right now? You said 61 >> 54. >> Wow. That's a 100% increase. >> Mhm. >> As you said from >> Almost Almost, >> right? As you said from your mouth to God's ears. Thank you, Chad. Shout out to I appreciate it. Thank you so much. >> More coming up. You're listening to a Thursday morning edition of JM in the