Is there a Mitzvah To Pay Off a Parents Debt? The Lomdus of R Akiva Eiger, R Elchanan, R Aaron Leib

okay good morning everyone sh hope everyone had a beautiful chabas kala chabas before shabas today we're going to speak about an amazing topic the subject of the yim's responsibility to pay up the debt of their father the uh the gumar says as follows the talks about a case a guy owed 100 he died he left a small piece of land to have a that was worth 50 came he wanted to grab the field so gave him 50 Z so he says great thanks for the 50 Z you still owe me 50 Z he then went to grab the field they came before saidah to pay the debt of their father the money they gave originally was for the Mitzvah of paying the debt of their father but there's still the land is still now that he's grabbing he's he's grabbing properly thear says that's Prov Ed theim didn't say we're giving you the money to buy the field but if they say we're giving you the money to buy the field so that field is no longer mid for the debt of their father what exactly is the mitzah to pay the debt of their father says Rashi look on the left hand side M out of honor to their father bzden is not going to force them to do this it's not it's just a a Rabin Mitzvah Rashi seems to be bothered if it was a Mitzvah then why wouldn't we force them to do it so the answer rash gives is it's not a full-fledged Mitzvah it's not like a Suka and a lulav where we had earlier in the gar remember we had a few bloto that we could force we could force uh somebody to do even PR we could force someone to pay back a real Mitzvah we could force somebody to observe a real Mitzvah but this is not a real Mitzvah like a Suka and aul it's like a quazi Mitzvah so since it's like a quasi Mitzvah We Don't Force It what's the quazi Mitzvah the Quasi Mitzvah is it's a Mitzvah sounds like if it would beah we could force it but it's only a mitah what exactly is the Mitzvah we'll see tus seems to disagree with Rashi seems to be saying that [Music] um second yeah t seems to be saying that there's a different reason we don't force you to be M this Mitzvah um quotes Rashi over here since it's only we don't force you says we do find that we force by like theah to fulfill the words of the mess we say that we force the so we do we do uh force on MIT now why don't we force here so says very interesting look earlier says it's a Mitzvah that the reward is written on its side down here is not on a mitvah that's an interesting idea that anytime there's a Mitzvah where the Torah says a reward then bezden down here in this world does not enforce it so we have Rashi learns the reason why we don't force this Mitzvah is because it's only thean tus asks we do find that we force Onan and tus therefore says the reason we don't force here is because it's aah has a bomb question here wants to know why does Rashi say that this is not a MIT why would this not be a MIT it's not to pay the debt of your father how about is that not explicit enough after all look in Rashi rash says it's honor so so I don't think there's any mitvah that's more explicit than the answer is even though we pasing you have to honor your father but who has to pay for it we don't find that you have to pay money to honor your father do we find anywhere that you have to pay money to honor your father we don't find such a thing that one has to pay money to honor their father is there still a MIT yes there is a of let's say if a child says kades there is a of but is asking we don't find it and he basically said says what do you mean we don't find no but we but here the kids are spending their own money to to uh pay um he says even though he says if the father specifically left over money they' be obligated to pay that but he says here the the father died and okay basically is saying that the reason why there's no mitvah is because even though there's a MIT but you don't have to spend money on it that's very interesting look in also has a very interesting approach he says know if you borrow money and you don't pay you're a Russia so learns it's not because like we mentioned you don't have to spend money on it's the father's money that's responsible in other words if your father says come come visit me that you know dad uh flights are $5,000 now I want you to come okay no problem but you have to pay for the flight or you have to pay for the food but the way he gets around this is it's not C here it's shame it would be the shame it would be shameful for the father to be in geham as a Russia so the the this is not Cav this is Biz this is Mya it would not be like says this is something we would force I'm sorry to says we wouldn't Force this because it's says no it's so this is technically fear where the reward is not written the only thing is this little piece of land is what does that mean listen to this says this you don't have to pay money the fact that out of fear you have to pay that's a how do we see that from thear Kad in the ran by the story of D that it's a and not to you have to pay money to to fear your father okay this is very interesting I guess by the case of D he didn't wake up his father and that was considered a dur of spending money out of Moira so basically learns this is not a matter of mid it's MOA M and the father uh and the son would have to pay money midan but again that's not how R learned R learned that it's that the reason why there's no MIT is because you don't have to honor your father out of your own money the question though then is so then what what is the D over here learns is MOA but how would learn what is the we hold that a f that a child has to honor the father but doesn't have to spend money and you don't even have to spend money M if you look in the well well first look in the says if a child doesn't inherit anything from the father they don't have to pay the debt of their father there's even no Mitzvah you hear what thein that if a father has that and he dies and he didn't leave over any money there's no mitzvah for the kid to pay up his father's debt so the question is then what's our gamar talking about must be our gamar is talking about where the father did leave over money and since he left over money there's a MIT in other words is saying that if a father dies and he didn't leave over money there is no daanan but aramar according to Rashi is saying there is a daanan so it must be speaking about where the father did leave over money so the father left over money what exactly is the over here look in he says if the father didn't leave over money we don't force him to We Don't force him to pay the Deb there is out of honor to the father there is who says that you don't have to honor the father Rock Only from the father's money from your own money there's not even a mitvah that's meaning the is bringing two if the father didn't leave any money the re says even though we don't force you to pay his debt there's a Mitzvah and some say that no there's not even a Mitzvah so let's think about that for a moment if the father does not leave over money there's no Mitzvah to pay his debt because we that you have to honor the father from his own money not from your own money not from your money then why would there be a Mitzvah if your father does leave over money after all if he leaves over money but you inherit it and now it's yours so what exactly is the Mitzvah if there's no Mitzvah if the father doesn't leave over money then why should there be a Mitzvah if he does leave over money because technically there's no nafina because whether or not he leaves over money it will become your money when he dies and this but if there was a there was a then maybe that money is earmarked to pay up the B and it's not doesn't go to the AR there's no concept of ear marking by metalin only by kka right we're talking about the father is leaving over money so there's no shud on CF raban says this is uh earlier on wants to know what's if the father does or does not leave over money if he if he doesn't leave over money even though wouldn't you want him to get out of geham and not owe the money says yeah I would but it's not my problem because I don't have to spend money on this so then even if he does leave over money I inherit the money then once I herit the money why do I have to spend it to bail out the father so say something interesting he says since it's a need of the mess to pay his debt and whatever is needed for the mess who it's still considered his for something that he needs meaning let's say you need to bury the mess do you say well that's his problem he needed he didn't buy a burial I inherit this this this mine or do we say anything which is needed by the mess he takes precedence over the Yen and it's considered his for this not TR to understand that because then even if he didn't leave it over what difference does it make if he left over or not so say if he didn't leave over then I'm not responsible to pay for his burial but if he left over he left over M so then this is still his he's still alive for this meaning it's like he's still around leab burial he still needs the money leab paying off debt he still needs the money now we're it's not a biblically I'm not M to it but at least it's a MIT let me see if I uh ronman also quotes because they inherited also the also asks says like this what if a father would say take this hefer and cook cook it for me now if the kid would go along and be the item of heer he wouldn't be able to be he wouldn't have to cook it anymore because you're not to use your own money to cook for your father but maybe since the Mitzvah is on him immediately to honor the father you're to pick this up and cook it for the father why the same way even though you're not obligated to spend money on the father you are M if the father says I want you to visit me well you mean visit you but I have to work if I if I don't go to work to and lose a million dollars that money you have to be from your to honor your father even according to the m but you do have to your work so to here You' have to the of being for yourself so therefore if your father leaves over as soon as he dies before the is to honor the father and not to be in his assets if it's your money there was never to begin with in other words seems like is saying that what yusha is like a couple step process the father dies the items are like ownerless and then they go to The Heirs so in that Split Second when the father dies when the items are now not owned before you acquire them the Mitzvah kicks in and says give it to your father not TR to understand that is that really how it works that when a father dies the property is ownerless and then you're kind at it or doesn't the Tyra straight up move it into your or somehow the Mitzvah preempts the process of yusha that before before it's pushed into your the Mitzvah says you have to use it for the father it's like an ear tag like go was saying before maybe there's like an ear tag to it from beforehand but there's no ear tag on on money right in other words my money is not mid to my debt only land is m to the de let's see what says says right the father never commanded the kids to pay off but the says it's aah it's greater than the honor of your father's wife and so therefore says let's say a father commands his sons I want you to give some of your rusha to plain do you have to fulfill the father's request yes I the din MIT is only if he's mash the money into a third party for that that's if he says T that's only but let's say the father commands someone who's not uh a child do you have a din of but then backtracks and he says isn't it doesn't it become their money says says a very interesting s says you know why there's a mitzvah for the child to pay his father's debt I don't I don't have to spend money on it how where did you just get this money from oh it's my money who gave it to you the Tyra yeah who gave it to the Tyra your father so where' you get this money from came from your dad how did he get it he worked his whole life for it so you're telling me the kid's gonna say well I know I have to honor my father but I don't have to spend money out of my own pocket say kid this is not out of your own pocket your father just gave it to you rer says it's not aerus hak I think what he's saying it's not aerus hak that the toyra didn't place an obligation to spend money on your father the is that it's your F you have to honor your father it's just you're not required that it should come out of your pocket so you say well in this case it's coming out of my pocket well not really because your father just put it into your pocket because he left over money for you but then rer further qualifies that that maybe so in other words and in that case let's say a father says to a kid I'm living you I'm leaving you a big yusha give some of it to yank schar does a kid have to listen reer says well maybe it's only if it's paying off a debt because it's a little bitas but then reaber says then if that's the case why did tus have to say that we don't force because it's mat say of course we don't force it's the kids money the only reason why we're making the kid pay is because of nasas but maybe we're not in a force but bottom line is in the in the back and forth of rer we see a little different than Rebel Kanan and a little different thanon ran was saying I didn't fully understand it that I don't have to that a yusa that falls to a kid that's being used for the father's need need is considered the father's money it's like burying the father it before any aors get the money they have to take care of the needs of the mace so almost the way ran is learning is it's still in the father's domain the the yusa is not effective until you take care of everything the mess needs seems to be saying that before the yha is the Mitzvah it's not that it's the father's need right is saying that since this is something still needed by the father it doesn't transfer yet to The Heirs RAB is saying it's not that it doesn't transfer because the father needs it it's that the Mitzvah the same way you would would say that the kid should not acquire something from hefer the Mitzvah should say the the kid should not acquire the yusha yet are we going to equate paying off the American Express bill that the father Left Behind was burying the father Yes because because basically he ain't going he's not being his soul will not have rest bit in the same way his soul won't have rest until you cover him nicely with the dirt his soul will not have rest bit if he still has has a 9% interest charge on his uh assets at least to another Jew If he if he owes money on the other hand What's um uher is saying this is not called Mel Ben because the father just put this money in the kid's pocket that's not called the kid spending money on it you know that would be a little bit analogous to a father turns to a kid he says here's a million dollars could you do me a favor could you get me a coke said yeah but you have to pay for it not out of my pocket kid I just put a lot of money in your pocket that's what what do you think I gave it to you for no I was Co it it's like a father says to a kid kid pass the chant no it's my chilling I would just picked out you have to spend your own money on the chant no no I I didn't give it to you not to give it back to me why could the Father specify or does he not have to specify he doesn't have to this is not called the kid spending his own money him spending the money the father gave him is still considered in other words what's the reason a kid doesn't have to spend his own money the P were never obligated that the kids spend money on that this is not what the Torah had in mind if the father gives it to you that that that much you have to spend all right that's what I got for you in terms of this week's schedule I think we're g to try to do da Sadi B tomorrow um terms of the Eon we'll see um probably not around next Sunday okay we'll be we'll be in touch further scheduling okay everyone call