Is an Androgenus Obligated in Mitzvos - The Incredible Machlokes Keren Orah and Levush

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good evening everyone sorry we couldn't get together this morning I was out of town but I want to share with you just um a point of on the blat we're we're in the Su of andreus and thear brings various opinions according to R in the mishna and and is which is uh that is itself is worthy of uh study I mean this individual has a Simon of zakus and a Simon of nakas it has a Simon of male it has a Simon of masculinity it has Simon of femininity and yet we say it's a I mean why is why not in a like why do we pick out a hat out of a hat male as opposed to female actually um I called up this evening the one who publishes Mar and he this was his question and I brought up the possibility that you know when we say that someone's a male or a female what is it based on Simon you know almost like kosher animal an animal has a Simon that at kosher choose its cuted has split hooves and there's actually a question whether that's a Simon or a siba is that symptomatic that they're kosher or does it cause that they should be kosher is it a s or AA now we know if somebody has a male um a okay that's a sign that they're a male is a female a is that a sign that they're a female or is that a sign they're not a male or in other words is there such a thing as a positive sign someone's a female or is it just the absence of a sign that they're a male they're not would be if somebody has both so if there's a positive sign of being a female then it's hard to understand why someone who has both a male and a female sign why should they be a male over a female but if it's just that if someone has KN so they don't have proof positive that they're a male so if they have both then they do have proof positive that they're a male anyway you know like okay now the gar brings the opinion the right of that androon bar that androus is its own creat um creation if you could take a look in your garas brings what does it mean Andro simply means that there's male there's female and then there's like this new monster called andreus which is neither a male or not a female what is it it's like it's uh completely it's like in Kad there's a there's a and there's a is a or is a both or excuse me is a a monster so the same thing with male and female what's an Andrus I would have said Andro there's a creature called Andro to says no to says I'm read over here does not mean bar like in other places in general bar is not a suff here learns very a novel interpretation just means it's a meaning if bar meant it's a monster it's a third category then what does it mean the rabbis were not the rabbis did not give a definitive identity they did it's a that's a definitive identity the fact that the G says that means they're debating we don't know is it a male or is it a female this also is implied let's say a or they see white and they see red they see white or red so if they see white it might be uh in the emission of a male the only thing is but they might be a female or if they see red it might be the emission of a female blood but they might be a male so you can't burn truma because they might not be t because if they're the other gender then what they admitted is irrelevant however if they see white and red then we could burn Shuma why because either they're a male or a female so if they're a male they s white and if they're a female they saw red so whatever they are they omitted something that renders them T but now T says but if they're burima even then it shouldn't you shouldn't burn truma because maybe this monster does not become tame not from red and not from white but the fact that if androgenous emits red and white we burn truma that means that's because its status is a suff so if it emits something that in other words it emitted red it emitted white so whatever gender it is it emitted something that's going to render a t so it'll be T So learns does not mean what we think it means means it's a separate category it's a separate entity and says no it's a suff however the ran learns look over here on the my opinion this is not correct means to exclude the category of a sa okay so the ran learns the gar like we would have assumed so now in the world of the ran that a and is a barri we know men are women are poter what would you say about an andreus if an Andrus is a of course and is if an Andro is a suff like the like then will but according to that there's a male there's female and there's androus is an androus mitz I'll tell you I tell you if you would have asked me I would have said um I'm not sure what I would have said actually meaning what's the question is it only a male is and a female is poter and joyness is also po because andus is not a male or is it that only a female is Potter and a male is andus is not a female andus is I think I would have said only a male is and therefore even an Andrus would be P that's what I would have said so this is a big I don't have much I just thought it was an interesting Yeah a different that's why right so half flave how do you car the half flave correct but the question is is it that only men are and anyone who's not a man is pter and therefore n Dron this is p is it only women are and anyone who's not a woman is and Andrus is not a woman so androus should be I think I would have is the reason for the P by the women because to be available let's say for child birth and child rearing in which case we' have to apply that to whether that capable by androus okay good that's that's a that many suggest but I don't really think that's like a Hal that's like you know like a like a type of an idea but I don't know that it governs the yeah in other words what a woman who can't have children or what about plug you know what about yeah or at a certain age okay you could say l plug so the karano says something very interesting he says right over here do you do you see where the this my S my Mark is an androus has no if you hold male fale or he would be according to but according toin it's an entity in and of itself the mitos of men unless you have an explicit inclusion meaning the karano learns that men are specifically included and obligated in mitv and an andrist would remain poter unless there's an explicit inclusion that's what I would have said comes aush and the is found in and the says I would have said he's like a woman the only exempt absolute females the T only Exempted women and Andrus is not a woman it's a men by itself and it's a Jew now Jo this ISS a Jew and the T only excluded women in other words kirus says default is you're exempt from mitzah unless you're a man that you're says exempt unless you're a woman and you're pter and andus is not a woman very interesting M now the elaba asks if that's the case we know an andronis cannot be or in other right this can only be why if really default is your and only absolute women are so now is like why can't man that's that's like a bomb you can't get out of that's why is like the that only men are are not are not he says so in the they say and I don't really uh not sure how compelling this is uh they say maybe really only women are put and is but nevertheless it's a weak I don't I don't know what that means he Compares it to says that that even though there's a to cover but it's a weak because it has a somehow he's viewing it that even though it's a but there's an element of to it that weakens the I don't really understand what that would mean so that's what we have basically learns means indicated by the fact that the G says that status the ran learns simply it's a separate entity would it be the says no only men are women are is says women are men are ask so then why can and be now just for your own knowledge there's a very interesting here theive it is found in that Andro is not Buri it's not a it's and therefore it can't even be another Andrus because the half of it that's a female can't be Moy the other half that's a male so this is a completely different is not it's not a suff not he's like it's an entity that's 50% male 50% female and all where did theive it do you see such a she in the G in our G we either see or which is like a separate entity or the way to learned but nobody says it's 50% 50% Thea is just entity in it of itself wouldn't that be under that category it seems like the rivit is saying U maybe that that's another explanation for Barat but simply bar is a third category not a category that contains two for example the wants to know if somebody gives birth to to an androgenous are they M puru at one time here it is you you created a z and then AA no right no way can to clear find a male or a female I mean it's there's clearly you only have two options you don't have three options question is an androgenous according to the rivot allow to get dressed what what kind of clothing he can't wear male clothing he's o the female half is O you can't wear male can't wear male clothing the feemale so leaves off as can an andrist who a is there an is for to other words he's a half of him which is a male should be able to that's the r is like a different world in and okay wonderful night thank you for joining um so this week we're trying to do Monday and Tuesday we might have to do a third night this week okay thank you everyone you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by tor anytime.com